Ezra Levant and Sam Cooper expose Liberal MP Michael Ma's ties to China's United Front Work Department, highlighting his dismissal of forced labor claims despite CSIS warnings on election interference. They detail Ma's aggressive questioning of witness Margaret McQuaig Johnston, the likely Chinese-orchestrated cancellation of a Falun Gong concert in Toronto, and the controversial agreement to import 49,000 annual electric vehicles from China. Ultimately, the discussion frames these actions as a strategic pivot undermining Canadian sovereignty and trade relations with the United States through alleged "spy mobiles" and foreign influence networks. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Conservative Association and Forced Labor00:15:00
Tonight, a talk with Sam Cooper about China's infiltration of Mark Carney's government.
It's April 3rd, and this is the Edge Levant Show.
Shame on you, you censorious bug.
Oh, hi, everybody, and happy Good Friday to you.
Today, a special long form interview with Sam Cooper.
I think he's Canada's leading journalist on the infiltration of Canadian society by foreign interests, in particular Iran and, in today's case, the Chinese Communist Party.
So sit back and enjoy a conversation with Canada's leading investigative journalist on this file.
What consequences, if any, will Michael Ma face for his dismissal of forced labor in China?
Well, thanks for the question.
The first thing is that Mr. Ma has apologized for his comments, as he should have.
He's recognized the seriousness of the issue in that apology.
So, the first is to recognize up front the seriousness of the issue.
He does.
He's apologized.
He apologized directly to Ms. McQuig Johnson as well, but then more broadly about the issue.
First point.
Second is that, look, we take this issue of forced labor, child labor, incredibly serious.
Canada has the most rigorous set of engagements on the issue.
Anyone who watched that clip in committee saw his scrum with CBC after, saw one version of his comments, and then he released a statement.
How is the public supposed to believe that statement is at all genuine?
And are you still attending the fundraiser with him this evening?
Two things.
First is Mr. Ma has apologized for his comments and directly and unequivocally.
Recognize the seriousness of the issue, continues to be a member of our caucus, and I'll continue to work with him, including in the issue that you referenced in the second part of your question.
This is a government event, though, so I don't want to speak about party specific things around fundraising.
Interference in our elections by the Chinese Communist Party has been happening for years.
CSIS has rung the alarm on it, but because the interference seemed to support the incumbent Liberal government, first under Justin Trudeau and then Again, under Mark Carney, there never really was a disclosure of all the facts, let alone anyone doing anything about it.
There were 11 electoral ridings that were initially named.
It wouldn't surprise me if there were more.
And it was very dramatic.
It wasn't just things like, oh, bussing in foreign nationals to vote in a Liberal Party nomination.
It was threats.
You might recall in the Greater Toronto area, there was an actual threat by the Liberal candidate saying there was a bounty.
On his Conservative Party opponent.
And again, this isn't really about liberal or conservative.
It's about the Chinese Communist Party wanting to have pro Chinese assets in Canada, and frankly, Mark Carney looking the other way.
Well, this accelerated recently when a Conservative candidate who ran in the last election under the Conservative banner, which includes a bundle of policy ideas like being skeptical and critical of human rights violations in China, Michael Maude defected to Mark Carney's Liberals and was rewarded immediately thereafter.
By traveling with Mark Carney to China and being prominently featured.
This would have been an amazing feeling of importance and satisfaction for Michael Ma.
At that trip, you might recall, Mark Carney announced Canada's pivot towards China and a new world order.
But just a few days ago, Michael Ma was in parliamentary committee and he was asking questions of an NGO that was ringing the alarm about child labor in China, which is actually not a rare thing.
And Michael Ma just couldn't help himself.
He wanted to put on a good show.
I don't know, was it for Mark Carney or was it for Xi Jinping or for both?
Take a look at how he grilled this woman who was worried about child labor and denied it.
Take a look.
Do you have an advanced degree in technology and cybersecurity?
Yes or no?
No, but I have spent 37 years in China.
I need to get short answers, please.
The other one is you belong to the China Strategic Risk Institute.
So, does this institute specifically look for risk when there isn't one?
Yes or no?
No.
So, why is it a risk institute?
Because it analyzes risks that are obviously there.
Thank you.
So, the last question then is you claim about forced labor in Shenzhen.
Have you witnessed this yourself?
Have you been there ever?
I've been to China many times.
Have you witnessed forced labor?
Since 1979.
No.
Have you witnessed forced labor?
Just a short answer.
Have you witnessed forced labor in Shenzhen?
Yes or no?
So, did you get the word from the government?
I work closely with Human Rights Watch where researchers did witness it.
So, thank you.
Just incredible.
He was browbeating the witness who said that she herself didn't put eyes on it, but her staff did.
I think it is universally acknowledged that there is forced labor and child labor in China.
I actually don't think there's any credible observers who dispute that.
But Michael Ma clearly has other bosses in mind.
What was interesting, as I mentioned, is that Michael Ma is the new star in the Liberal Party.
And just the other day, there was a gala fundraiser.
Featuring him and Mark Carney.
And many people wanted, where they were wondering, would Mark Carney actually show up given that Michael Ma had revealed his true colors?
Well, the answer was yes, with high praise.
Take a look at Mark Carney praising Michael Ma despite that display we just saw.
Take a look, or maybe because of it.
Take a look.
Michael joined our caucus in a room, it was the Liberal Holiday Party.
It was not a smaller list, actually.
But he joined our caucus in December.
And he joined.
As he said, he was guided by the values of building up others, delivering results, he's a result oriented individual, and choosing a path that creates opportunities for Canadians.
These are fundamental liberal values, fundamental Canadian values, and that's why Michael Long has found a home in our party.
And we've been so glad to welcome you and to work with you.
Well, you can see that the Liberal Party is closing ranks.
I think part of it is they actually.
Believe in their pivot towards China and the New World Order.
And part of it is liberals never apologize and never explain.
Well, someone who does a lot of explaining and a lot of research is our guest today.
We've had him on many times, even though his time is so valuable.
I see him on so many shows as their resident expert on China.
We're so grateful that he makes time for us from time to time.
His name is Sam Cooper.
He's with TheBureau.news.
In fact, he founded it himself.
And I think he's one of Canada's leading citizen journalists when it comes to foreign interference, not just from the Chinese Communist Party.
But from Iran and other hostile entities.
Sam, what a pleasure.
I'm always so cognizant of the fact that your time is limited.
So let's jump right in.
Welcome back.
Tell me what Canadians should know about Michael Ma and this incident, which we sort of shown in several parts.
The incident is shocking, and I think the value of it is all Canadians can see there's something very wrong happening there.
But Ezra, I've done a lot of reporting at the Bureau.news on the context leading up to that event.
Michael Ma comes from a riding which was subject to deep interference from China in recent elections.
It would be hard to explain how much was going on there, but something I've added to the body of reporting is that Michael Ma was part of a body called the Chinese Canadian Conservative Association.
This is, according to the Jamestown Foundation, a highly respected American think tank, one of 575 entities connected to Beijing's foreign interference arm, which is called the United Front Work Department.
So, Ezra, the context of Michael Ma being listed as a director of that association is very telling when we look at that video, which I'll explain in a minute.
But that association, of which Ma was a director, has attacked the past two conservative leaders.
Pierre Poliev and Aaron O'Toole for being anti China, supposedly.
So, what I'm suggesting is Michael Ma was already part of a group that a well known think tank connects to Beijing's foreign interference, comes from a riding deeply impacted by foreign interference.
We're not aware of any illegal activities from Mr. Ma, but I see him repeatedly in meetings with people in Markham, Ontario, which I assert are known to CSIS and the RCMP as alleged Chinese agents.
So this looks suspicious.
And then we have this clip where he's acting essentially, it looks like he's defense counsel for the government of China, saying nothing to see here.
Whereas you say, Ezra, all decent people can read the reports from Human Rights Watch and other entities that say, There is forced labor and it will make it into our electric vehicle supply.
So he's attacking the credibility of a well known Canadian witness.
He's acting, it seems like, a defender of China.
And Ezra, I looked at the Chinese state media the day after.
They were not only amplifying and celebrating Michael Ma's performance, but they pulled out of their dossier on the Canadian witness, Margaret McQuaig Johnston, saying she had been a friend of China, a researcher in years past.
Now she was, quote, an anti China pawn.
They attacked her.
And this makes me think look, was Mike Homa in any way adding propaganda to help Beijing?
Could there even have been behind the scenes arrangements?
These are questions that I think need to be answered.
And I believe they're being studied by CSIS.
I have to believe that.
Well, I sure hope so.
You know, we know that some of the different political activists, including MPs, have met with the Chinese consulate, which, you know, it just, I'm guessing they're a little more careful now.
I used to know a senior RCMP officer.
Who is in charge of the Russian embassy?
And one of the things they did is document every single person going in and coming out of the embassy.
And I've got to hope that they have a list of liberal or conservative MPs and senators who are going in and out.
Although these days, who knows?
Maybe it's just being done by some encrypted app.
Now, I want to come back to something.
There was a little detail you said that I just heard for a second, and then you moved on.
The name of this Chinese influenced group in which Michael Ma is a director.
That's the conservative business.
What was the name of it again?
The Chinese Conservative Association of Canada.
So let me just ask you is that entire organization's purpose set up to?
Enter into the conservatives.
If it's got the word conservative in it, was the whole purpose to get pro CCP, pro Chinese Communist Party people in the conservatives, not just in the liberals?
Is that why it's called conservative, or is there another reason it's called conservative?
In a nutshell, that's the answer.
At the Jamestown Foundation, people can go to that entity and read their deep report.
They can go to the bureau where I have unpacked it.
And how they explain it, Ezra, is the United Front Work Department.
Is working, of course, for the Chinese Communist Party, but they want to have representatives that can pressure foreign democratic governments no matter which party is in power.
Wow.
So they are covering both.
I mean, very smart, long term strategy.
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Of course, Justin Trudeau and Mark, you know, New World Order liberals are pro Beijing, but they want to have people on the conservative side too, obviously, is what you're saying.
That's a little bit shocking to me.
But it makes complete sense.
Do we know if the Conservative Party has adjusted their stance towards this group?
Because if it is where the Michael Maws of the world are coming from, have they sort of put up a wall to keep out people from this pressure group?
That's a great question, Ezra.
Let me explain it by saying people can go to the National Post, they can go to the Bureau and read about the activities of this Chinese Conservative Canadian Association, and they can see after Aaron O'Toole lost the 2021 election, this very same association held a press conference in Markham and said that Aaron O'Toole should step down.
He lost for being anti China.
As I've reported on the Bureau, they did the same pressure tactic on Pauliev after he lost.
So you can see how they're doing a pincher movement on the Conservatives.
For being critical of China.
And that's the whole story.
China does not like critics in foreign governments.
Right.
You know, there's a word for this, I think, entryism, entryism, where they just sort of walk right in and say, oh, I'm a conservative party activist.
And then it's almost like a sleeper's cell.
Now, as you say, we don't have evidence of criminality, but I agree with you.
I'm sure CSIS and RCMP are on it.
How much they're allowed to say publicly is partly a political question, too, of course.
Now, let me just mention one more thing in passing.
There's this concert, a touring operatic concert that supporters of the Falun Gong participate in.
Falun Gong is a Chinese spiritual movement.
The Chinese communists call it a cult.
And it's been banned in China because it's really not under the control of the Communist Party.
And one of the things they do is put on this beautiful opera in Chinese language, but it has some anti CCP overtones.
I've been to their concert in Toronto probably three times.
It's just artistic opera and singing and ballet.
And This year, and it's a very prominent event, it's a black tie kind of event, and it just has a subtle freedom message.
That's my take on it.
China's Car Building Tactics Exposed00:04:29
This year, it was false alarms and fire alarms, and the whole thing was canceled.
I mean, we don't know who did it, but it sure feels like the Chinese government or some of their agents are interfering in the lives of Falun Gong here in Canada.
And this isn't the first time that they've done that.
I mean, they target these Falun Gong, and I've seen it with my own eyes.
Do you know anything about the canceling of the Shenyan concert this week?
Ezra, you're absolutely right.
This is not unique to Canada.
Shenyun concerts worldwide repeatedly get these types of bomb threats.
And I know very credible observers that say it is Chinese communists, probably agents or people you could call self motivated supporters of the motherland, that call in these fake bomb threats around the world.
So I do think it's highly likely that's what happened in Toronto.
And we have known cases, Ezra, of Critics of the Chinese Communist Party, for example, in Australia, being alleged, you know, being accused of calling in bomb threats to Chinese consulates.
So people are trying to smear them with, you know, fake criminal activities.
This is a well known tactic of the Chinese Communist Party.
And the fact that it happens shortly after this controversy around Michael Ma, you know, it just, to me, it shows that Canadians need to understand wake up.
Our freedoms are being attacked, and they're being attacked in our own parliament.
Hmm.
Sam, I know you got to go, but let me ask you one last question.
I recently sat down with a U.S. ambassador, and the topic of China came up a couple of times.
He referred in particular to the 49,000 electric vehicles Mark Carney has agreed to import from China every year.
And he said categorically, they're not going into the United States because he says they're like spying machines, all the little cameras on it, feeding that data back to China.
Have you heard anything from your contacts in CSIS or the RCMP?
Because those, I mean, listen, a Tesla is the same way.
A Tesla has a dozen cameras on it.
And it's really a data capture machine.
That's how the self driving happens.
But these Chinese made EVs, I mean, they really are spy mobiles.
I know in some countries like Israel, you're not allowed to be a senior member of the military and have such a car.
You're not allowed to bring such a car in a military base because there's just a spying machine.
Is there anyone in the Canadian government that you know of who is worried about this?
Because this ambassador was very frank.
Here's a quick clip of it.
He said they ain't going into America.
I think it's those cars can come in from China, come into Canada.
They're not going to cross the border into the U.S. China's imports brought to you through Canada into the US, Chinese imports, that ain't going to happen.
If anybody buys those cars, it's going to be Canadians.
You guys will have to take a look at it.
I'm rather a simple guy on some of this stuff.
It's kind of like, okay, if you're buying 49,000 cars that are made in China, That means that you're probably not going to be buying 49,000 cars that were built in Ontario.
Okay, that's a Canadian decision.
49,000 cars is not enough cars to build a factory.
Again, I'm a marketing guy, I'm not an engineer, but my understanding in talking to folks in the auto industry is that if you really want to build to scale a car plant, you know, where the efficiencies and all of that, you got to be at least at a quarter of a million cars.
Okay, you're not going to build a factory for, maybe the Chinese will, but you're not going to build a factory to build 49,000 cars.
But those are decisions that Canada has to make.
You had other factors in play, like exports of canola or canola that played into this and other tariffs.
But we're not going to get involved in that.
But we know that we're not going to open the.
We're not going to open the floodgates to have Chinese cars coming into the U.S. from Canada.
That ain't going to happen.
Spy Vehicles Tracking North America00:02:23
And so, you know, security standpoint, you know, with the technology that they now have built into cars, you know, and I think the, you know, some insurance companies or some states are looking at, you know, when you go out and buy your license plates, it's going to be dependent on how many miles you drive per year.
And that number is not going to be.
You know, derived from a form that you fill out that says, Oh, I drove 11,500 miles last year.
It'll come from some data that they're getting that has tracked your car for the last year.
And they said, Yeah, you said you drove 11,500.
We're tracking it.
You drove 13,321 miles, and here's exactly where you went.
And so, you know, I would expect coming out of the intelligence world that that little That car driving around from China, it's a great gobbler of data and information.
And it's consuming and getting information, uh, and you know, at times it will be sending information.
So, have you heard anything like that in Canada?
Yeah, Ezra, I have heard from you know, self acknowledged former Canadian national security experts that say absolutely those are spy vehicles.
Uh, in Poland, also another country, I believe that such vehicles are banned.
Look at the state of modern warfare, Ezra, where.
Where foreign governments, and I'm talking about the good guys, so the United States and Israel, can locate to a kill point where people live.
So imagine China going around North America capturing more information through spy vehicles about the nooks and corners where our leaders might be living.
So, absolutely, it's not only a spy vehicle concern, but it's a concern that Mark Carney could be burning up our trade agreement with the United States if he lets those.
Spy vehicles made by Uyghur slave labor into our supply chain.
It's a suicidal trade deal, I believe.
Yeah, I just don't get why that could possibly help the Ontario auto industry.
Iran, Bad Actors, and Citizen Journalism00:00:54
Sam, great to see you.
Always happy to have you join us.
Folks, if you're not following the Bureau.news, you're doing it wrong because you're going to get more of the other side of the story from Sam than pretty much anywhere else.
And it's not just on China stuff, which we care about, but on Iran and other bad actors in Canada.
So I really encourage you.
To go to thebureau.news.
We're in the age of citizen journalism where an expert like Sam on his own can do as much important work as a major outlet.
And we're always glad that you come on.
All the best to you, Sam.
Keep in touch and stay safe.
I'm sure that you're on a lot of hit lists too.
God forbid.
Stay safe.
I know you keep your head on your swivel.
I know you do.
You're very alert to these things because you're a thorn in the side of the bad guys.