Ezra Levant and guest Kelvin expose how the UK’s Terrorism Act weaponizes dissent, detaining conservative journalist Callum Dara for six hours at Gatwick over a passport scan—while ignoring his Afghanistan/Russia travel but scrutinizing El Salvador contacts. Police seized devices for seven days, pressured him to reveal sources, and justified silencing critics like Tommy Robinson, deported Lauren Southern, and now threaten figures tied to Trump. The UK’s "two-tier" justice—harshly prosecuting right-wing offenses but shielding grooming gangs—undermines its liberal legacy, from Magna Carta to Adam Smith, as surveillance and censorship expand under both Labour and Conservative rule. Levant frames Musk’s influence as fragile without Trump’s backing, contrasting the UK’s decline with Canada’s potential resistance, urging crowdfunded legal support and institutional defiance. [Automatically generated summary]
We talked for almost an hour with Callum Dara, who's a conservative journalist in the UK who was arrested, detained without charge, and grilled for hours by police about his politics.
Just absolutely nuts.
And it's all happening under terrorism laws.
You got to hear this.
Hey, before I get to that, I want to make sure that you know about Rebel News Plus.
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All right.
Here's today's podcast.
Ask The Questions00:15:38
Tonight, another conservative British journalist is arrested and grilled for six hours by British terrorism police.
What the heck is going on?
It's January 31st, and this is the Answer Levant show.
Shame on you, you censorious bug.
I remember where I was on 9-11.
I was absolutely shocked by it.
I was terrified.
Was that just the first two buildings knocked down in what was going to be a cataclysmic world war?
What could we do to stop the terrorists in the United States?
They passed the Patriot Act.
The United Kingdom has had a series of laws.
One of them is called the Terrorism Act.
And there's a provision in the Terrorism Act that I've come to know a little bit because my friend Tommy Robinson was charged under it.
I call it the ticking time bomb clause.
That's just me who uses that nickname.
And what it does is it allows police to arrest anyone at a port of entry into the UK.
So it could be a railway station for the channel, could be an airport, and to detain them without a search warrant and to detain them in a way that is unique in British American Canadian law.
That is, to compel them to answer questions.
You can't say, I won't talk without my lawyer present.
You can't say, I plead the fifth.
That would be a U.S. phrase.
You can't say, I have the right to remain silent.
You specifically do not.
Not only must you answer the questions, but you must give them access to your documents, including to the cell phone password on your phone, where so much of our lives are.
Imagine if someone, especially police, especially police with some expertise in how to look, got you to give them the password to your phone.
They could access everything from your family photos to your group chats to your browsing history.
Getting access to your phone is getting access to your entire life, including perhaps your banking information, your GPS tracking.
It is a terrifying law.
If you look at it through the lens of 9-11, perhaps it makes sense.
Imagine you arrest Khaled Sheikh Muhammad or some criminal mastermind who knows a bomb is about to go off in a matter of hours.
You want to be able to press him for answers without him clamming up.
I get it.
But more and more, that law is used not for terrorists and not even where there's a pretense or a suspicion of terrorism, but rather simply to grill political and journalistic opponents of the prime minister.
I say again, our friend Tommy Robinson is facing a prosecution under the Terrorism Act because when he was pulled over, he refused to give the password to his cell phone, saying there were journalistic sources he wanted to protect from police, including young girls who had been raped as part of these British rape gangs, and they did not trust police with their identity.
Well, this law is being abused more and more.
I saw on X the other day that a journalist in the United Kingdom who is not as spicy as Tommy Robinson.
He's more a travelogue journalist for interesting places.
I've met him a couple of times in the UK.
He used to work for Sargon of a Cat on the Lotus Eeker Eaters, which is sort of an intellectual philosophical channel.
He was pulled over at Gatwick Airport and questioned for six hours by police.
And I thought, I can't interview Tommy about that because he's in prison.
But let's bring aboard Callum Dara, who joins us now via Skype from the United Kingdom.
Callum, great to see you again.
Thanks for taking the time.
No problem, Matt.
It's good to see you again.
Likewise, did I properly describe the Terrorism Act?
It has a lot of provisions, but this very powerful one lets police seize and question anyone.
And you don't have the right to stay silent.
It's so alien to our way of thinking.
That's what happened to you.
Why don't you tell our folks the story?
Sure.
So, I mean, you're absolutely beyond the money.
Basically, I was arriving back from the United States after doing some filming there.
And I got to these e-gates, which are a place where you can just scan your passport and a robot scans your face.
And then if it matches, it lets you in because all the paperworks were done for one, right?
I got to those, scan it as I usually do, and the thing fails.
Do it again, and it fails.
And I have met Tommy.
I know his stories.
And he's told me that's exactly what happens to him because he's on the personal interest list in the UK.
So he can't use those gates because they just fail on him.
So I wasn't that happy that that happened because then I look over at the desk where you've got to go normal immigration where there's no e-gates.
And behind it, there's three people looking at me in plain clothes.
I'm like, okay, this is going to be fun.
Go up to the desk, hand over my passport.
The immigration officer scans it in his machine.
It fails.
He looks like something's gone wrong.
And then they come up and say, we'll take it from here.
Take my passport.
Hello, Callum.
You're detained under the Terrorism Act, Section 3.
And would you come this way, please?
So then they take me into a side room, take my electronic devices off me and demand my PIN codes.
Like you said, I know, for example, Tommy's had this as well.
And it's not just him, Lauren Southern, who is a Canadian visiting the UK.
She had the same treatment.
So it's not just British citizens.
This happens too.
Foreigners are at risk as well.
And they demanded the access.
Lauren said no.
So they deported her from the United Kingdom of Banda for Life.
Tommy said no.
So they've charged her with the Terrorism Act.
So I have enough trouble because my job is traveling to interesting places.
So I've got enough trouble getting those visas approved without having to explain a terrorism charge in the application.
So I went, screw it.
Yeah, here's the pins.
Enjoy.
So they take all my electronic devices, scam me, take literally everything off me, and then explain to me that I'm detained.
I have no right to remain silent because that was my first question.
What are my rights to remain silent?
And they explained, there isn't one.
Here's a pamphlet.
I think I've got pamphlet, in fact, they give to you.
And so you can read through that if you want.
And yeah, you don't have a right to remain silent, which, as you say, the justification is that, well, if we're dealing with an imminent threat of terrorism, we need to get the information we need to stop it if it's in the next few hours or whatever, right?
But that's not what was happening in my case.
They wanted information and that was the way to get it.
So how it was intended?
Oh, well.
Let me ask the obvious question.
I know the answer, but our viewers are probably thinking, well, you must have been up to something.
I mean, why don't you just answer the question for me?
Are you a terrorist?
Do you hang out with terrorists?
Are you chummy with terrorists?
Have you who are you that would cause them to pull you over using the terrorism law?
So here's the steelman of their position, which would be the I go to interesting places like you mentioned.
The first one I went to that was a big video that blew up was my trip to Afghanistan.
And this was after the Taliban took over the country.
So you're thinking, oh, yeah, this guy would have met the Taliban, interviewed them.
Therefore, he's on a list.
He gets interviews, right?
The thing is, that was like two years ago.
And I came back from that trip and stood around in customs waiting for someone to come and tap on my shoulder.
And they didn't.
And okay, fine.
So then I keep going to different places.
I go to Russia, Kosovo, Transnistria, Zimbabwe, whatever.
I just come back from the US and El Salvador.
And when they were interviewing me, when I brought up the different stamps on my passport, like after we explained the trip I've just been on, they couldn't have cared less about Afghanistan, which was the fun part.
Because I'm like, oh, you're kind of terrorism.
You probably want to know if I want to join the jihad or whatever.
And they're like, no, yeah, if you want to tell us about it, go ahead.
Okay.
I mean, one of the stories relevant to you guys in Canada is we ran into a checkpoint in Afghanistan.
And I'm telling them this story, which is that I get bored out.
This Taliban guy is tapping me down.
I speak some Pashto to him.
And then he starts blowing back paragraphs of Pashto.
I'm like, oh, crap.
English, English.
Sorry.
Oh, English.
Points over some guy.
English, English.
Guy comes over.
Hey, guys, how you doing?
He's got a terrible bit of an A-count.
I'm like, that's not a... Let me guess, a Canadian convert.
Yeah.
He's a brown guy who I believe or presume was like a son of an immigrant and then went over to join the jihad in Afghanistan and it was now running checkpoints in Kabul.
And we're like, can we take pictures with you?
Can we get your phone number to chat about like why you're here?
He's like, oh, no, no, no.
I've got to go back to Canada someday.
Jeez.
Well, you know what?
And Justin Strudeau would let him back in even if he was known.
So let me ask you this.
So you're thinking like that's the reason they would ask me, right?
But when I told them that story, they couldn't have cared less about Afghanistan.
The thing they were interested in was my time in Russia.
And the other thing they were majorly interested in was my trip to the U.S., El Salvador, and my views on the West and the United Kingdom.
You know, that's so crazy.
I mean, El Salvador, when I think of El Salvador, I'm old enough to remember about 40 plus years ago, there was a battle between El Salvador and Nicaragua, the Nicaragua, you know, there was the communist there, Daniel Otega.
That's 40 years ago.
Today, El Salvador is one of the freest, safest countries in Central America.
Naeb Bukele is a pro-Bitcoin, pro-freedom guy who's cracked down on the gangs.
I'd love to go to El Salvador one day.
I think it's sort of a political interest story, a turnaround story.
So the fact that they want to know your views on that, I find perplexing because El Salvador is a great success in 2025.
It's not the El Salvador of 40 years ago.
Can you tell us what they were asking you about that?
And America, I mean, I was in America on Inauguration Day.
It was an exhilarating time.
I mean, I don't know your views on Trump.
I presume you're sympathetic to him.
Give me some of the questions that you were being asked by these counter-terror cops.
Sure.
So, when it came to the discussion, after I was told you've got no right to remain silent, take your fingerprints, take pictures of your face from every angle, etc.
Uh, they said they could speak to a lawyer, in fact, and then spoke to the lawyer that was free because I don't have a lawyer.
So, I called off the duty solicitor and they told me, What are you detained for?
I told them the paragraph of the detained under us.
I said, What do I do?
And they're like, I don't know.
What do you mean you don't know?
Well, why are you detained?
I don't know.
Well, I don't know what to tell you.
Well, it's like the blind leading the blind.
Yeah, it sounds very helpful.
I should tell you that when Tommy was pulled over, his lawyer did assist and he said, I can't really do anything.
I can't stop the questions, and we can't stop the seizure of your electronics.
So, you know, although it's sort of goofy to be given a phone call to a lawyer who knows nothing, if it makes you feel any better, Callum, even if you had the top lawyer in the UK, I don't think it would have stopped the humiliating and really unusual questioning.
I just don't, that law is so powerful.
It's sort of the British version of the Patriot Act, I think.
Well, there's nothing they can do, so yeah, I don't blame the lawyer, it's just it shows off the ridiculousness of the situation where even the lawyers like, I mean, her advice directly was answer the questions.
Yeah, I guess they will.
Give me a couple of questions that they would put to you because I want to show the viewer that what has happened is that a law that was probably passed in good faith 20 plus years ago is now being weaponized against people who are critical of the state or unusual or perhaps somewhat eccentric in their politics.
Tommy told me that when he was arrested under the Terrorism Act, they said immediately, Oh, we know you're not a terrorist.
We're just going to now pump you for questions about your politics, your street rallies, your journalism.
Like they expressly said to him, Oh, we know you're not a terrorist.
We're just using that law.
Translation, we're abusing that law.
Tell me some of the specifics they asked you.
Well, it's pretty much the same thing.
It's like we don't suspect you're engaged in anything.
I'm like, Well, why the hell am I detained then?
Well, we don't need a reason to detain you.
Great.
So, the conversation started with the trip I just did, and this was the one that we went into most detail: which is, okay, where did you leave the United Kingdom?
Where did you go in the US?
And I potted around.
So, I had to tell them, uh, I started in the UK, got to Vegas, met these people, stayed for this long, did these things.
Then I went to Miami and did these things, and then I went to El Salvador, then back to Vegas, and then somewhere else in the US.
And the whole step of that way, they're like, How long did you stay at this place?
Who did you meet in this place?
What did you do in that place?
So, I mean, I don't think the US is a breeding ground for Brits joining jihadists.
So, that's especially Vegas.
That's where that'll corrupt you.
All the good jihadis go to Vegas.
That's right.
So, that was odd.
The time in El Salvador as well, what did they do?
Who did I meet?
In fact, they asked me before they searched the vices: do you have anything of journalistic interest that would risk a source if we uncovered it?
And I'm like, Well, yes, the people I met in El Salvador because El Salvador, yeah, not always is a success.
There's some other side of that, which I'm going to release in the video upcoming.
But so, I'm explaining to them, yes, these things.
And then, when it gets to the questions, they're just like, Well, who?
Who'd you meet?
I'm like, I've got no right to remain silent.
So, what am I meant to do here?
Like, you right, you've got to give up your source.
Yeah, so if there was a confidential or legally protected or privileged source, and if you are compelled to answer, that's that's quite dangerous.
What's the rule say about that?
You just have to disclose it anyways.
If you don't answer their questions, you're impeding the investigation.
Therefore, you've committed a crime under the terrorism act.
So you will be charged.
So that's why they're a terrorist.
They acknowledge you're not a terrorist.
They ask you a question that would violate your journalistic ethics.
And if you don't comply, then they'll deem you a terrorist.
You're not a terrorist, ab initio.
They admit that.
But if you don't do exactly what they say, that's the terrorism.
That's how I presumed it was going to go.
So I, you know, you can do your best to answer the question without answering it, but that's about as much as a defense as you've got in that situation.
And how long did they detain you?
I've heard it's six hours that they have.
Is that correct?
And how long did they keep you under those six?
So the legal limit is six.
They kept me for four.
So within the law, as much as the law matters here.
Were you comfortable?
Were you in a cell?
Did they give you water or juice or something?
Yeah, they put you in a small room with nothing on the walls and then offer you water.
So that's how that goes.
And how many of them were, and they were recording the whole thing, I presume.
Yeah, so there's a recording device in the room that shank you.
There were two people, a lady and a guy that looks like Louis Theroux, interviewing me.
I spoke to someone who works in legal stuff after all this, and he believes, or he told me, because I was asking when I was talking to the lawyer, I'm assuming that the whole thing's bugged.
And he said, not only do I think that's likely, I think legally it's mandated.
Right.
And probably for the disclosure package.
Two-Tier Justice System00:08:02
Well, you could probably request that recording of yourself if you wanted it.
I don't know if you would get it, but it might be worth doing.
Hey, let me ask you a question.
You've described some of the very interesting places you've been to.
And, you know, I mean, America and El Salvador are interesting, but they're not quite as dramatic as Afghanistan or Kosovo even.
Did they delete anything?
So, for example, were you at risk of having your, like you had just done, you're in the video business, you're a journalist, you're sort of a travel videographer.
Did you detect that they deleted anything on your videos?
Tell me about that.
So thankfully, not in my case.
I mean, we're dealing with the police here, and anyone who's not naive knows that that's a possible risk.
I mean, when you mention six hours is how long you're allowed to be detained.
There was a lady who came over on the train who was a French journalist.
She was detained for 24 hours.
So she sued the police and won because that's just even within the scope of this law, that's highly illegal.
So I knew that might happen.
So they take my devices.
The maximum legal limit they can keep it was seven days, which is annoying because that's my livelihood.
That's a that's a week that I'm screwed.
I just can't do my work.
So whatever.
But I didn't say anything publicly for precisely that reason until I went to Gatwick, which is a four-hour drive there, four hours back, and had the devices in my hand to check that it was on there.
Because, yeah, I mean, if you're in this situation, the advice I can give, which is what I will now do, is have some online storage where you keep all of your footage from your work because, yeah, they could just delete it.
What are you going to do about it, Cry?
Well, I find that this is the story of the UK.
I didn't really know much about the UK until Tommy Robinson came into the orbit of Rebel News, and he worked for us for a little bit.
And I had a crash course in the weaponization of laws that were introduced for one purpose, but then Mission Creep extended them.
I mean, I didn't know all the football laws, or as we call it over here, soccer, that the police had the right to, you know, order you to be dispersed.
You can be just sitting in a pub, sober, doing nothing wrong, and a cop can say, disperse now.
And if you don't, you can be charged like that.
And I don't know if these laws came about because of football hooliganism or because of other things, but all these powers that were for a limited, acute purpose over the course of time are stretched and stretched beyond recognition and are weaponized and are used for political purposes.
I mean, I was there when, I mean, speaking of our friend Tommy again, when he was at a march against anti-Semitism, this is about a year ago.
And he came there as an ally of the Jews and as a journalist.
And by the way, I literally bumped in.
That was the first time I saw Tommy in years.
It was a sheer accident that I went into the same cafe that he was.
We both got to the march early.
I went into the cafe to get a bite and there's Tommy.
Like, what are the odds?
Completely random encounter.
And other Jews were there and they were delighted that Tommy was there because Jews in the UK don't have a lot of allies these days.
And to have a working class journalist on their side, they were sort of delighted to have him there.
And one left-wing Jew, Gideon Alter, I think is his name, said to the cops, he makes me uncomfortable.
And the cops grabbed Tommy.
There was like a dozen cops, handcuffed him, then pepper sprayed him and marched him out.
And he was banned from the city.
He was literally exiled from London until he fought his court case almost a year later.
I tell you this story because every single aspect of that, the police can arrest you because someone else feels nervous, that they can exile you from a great city for a year just because without a hearing.
All of those things probably started.
There was probably a little kernel of, oh, here's a good idea.
Here's a problem we need to solve.
But now it is close to a police state.
And the only way I won't say that the UK is a police state is that it's done so selectively 95% of the time, you wouldn't notice.
You notice hard when people start tweeting about the Southport stabbings, and then pretty soon 100 people are charged for mean tweets.
Like, I think the UK is in real jeopardy of becoming authoritarian.
What do you think, Callum?
So a lot of people responded.
And apparently, this has become a quite common meme, which is to refer to England as woke North Korea at this point from the American perspective.
It's out.
I mean, you mentioned football.
Did you know there are still blasphemy laws on the books in regards to football rivalries?
Because in Scotland, for example, you have Celtic versus Rangers, which turns into Protestant versus Catholic.
Now, of course, you have these laws come in because they're like, oh, we need to stop the violence between these two groups.
But if you say F the Pope in a certain context, yeah, it's a crime still in the UK.
And this only ever goes one way when it gets to the level of police interference.
I mean, you mentioned Tommy.
I mentioned Lauren Southern.
This has happened to me now.
Paul Golding is another one that comes to mind.
I'm yet to find a significant left-wing figure who's British who's had the same treatment.
Just doesn't seem to happen.
And you're right.
I mean, the policing culture in this country, I mean, that phrase woke North Korea is probably the right way to apply to it.
If a single individual is seen to be causing offense, the problem isn't that the person complaining needs to grow up.
I mean, that's the American perspective.
It's like, yeah, other people disagree with you.
Live with it, you child.
And even to their credit, the American police, for all the problems they've got, they still have that cultural culture when it comes to policing, which is that freedom of speech is sacrosanct.
Grow up.
But when it comes to British policing, the culture is that individual who's causing offense, that's a problem.
And as soon as we remove him, everything's perfect.
But of course, all that ends up doing is meaning that the person who can claim offense now has a weapon to get rid of their opponents.
And the people who are able to use that weapon effectively are a certain wing of British society and British politics.
It's not the other side.
So no one who offends British right-wingers is ever going to be removed from the city of London.
And I can't explain how much of a big deal that is because that's basically the city.
We've only really got one.
It's so centralized here.
Yeah.
You know, it's you say right-wing, and that is part of it.
That is a divide.
But there's also a class divide in the UK, working class versus for the fancy pants.
And then there's also the racial divide.
And I think we saw all three of those at play recently in those horrific Southport stabbings.
And as part of the rape gang grooming gang culture, you've got working class white girls and you've got primarily Pakistani Muslim men.
And that's the perfect storm because you've got the girls that, as Morrissey would say, they're nobody's nothing.
You know, oh, they're just white working class girls.
They're not important.
And then you've got this protected by the woke, you know, because they're immigrant Pakistani Muslims, visible minorities.
And so that was all brushed away, brushed aside, the rape gangs of Rotherham and other places.
And when you had that inverted during the riots after the Southport stabbings, Kier Starmer set up a around-the-clock 24-hour day prosecution for people who did mean tweets.
He didn't set up around the clock prosecutions for rape gangs or for other crimes.
I just, I think there's a lot of axes in the UK where you have two tier, based on race, based on class, based on ideology.
Two-Tier Justice Scandal00:07:17
Am I wrong, Callum?
Well, I got to be careful because I'm back in Britain.
It was nice in the US.
I finally could say what I want online.
But that phrase, two-tier.
There was a recent leak from the Home Office showing that the British state considers using the phrase two-tier policing as a sign of extremism.
So that's what they said.
Which is just such a, I mean, it's proving the point so obviously that if you claim there's two-tier policing, you're a problem.
We're going to shut you down.
Yeah, it's underneath.
Hopefully you're having a good time with this podcast, but I guarantee a better time would be coming to Alaska with me, Drea Humphrey, and my other rebel colleagues.
You've got to find out more at our special website, rebelnewscruise.com.
But it's taking place June 18th to June 25th, a vacation trip of a lifetime.
Again, that's rebelnewscruise.com.
I'll see you there.
You know, you've got this policing culture and you've got this, and then you layer on a total panopticon of constant surveillance.
You've got that surveillance state Orwellianism on top of it of closed circuit TVs everywhere.
And now, and this is a phrase no one outside the UK knows, ULES.
It stands for ultra low emission zones.
It's basically 15 minute cities and cars are banned between certain times.
You've got all these ULES, ultra low emission zone cameras that are filming your car if you're driving when you are on the wrong carbon date or whatever, or past your carbon limit.
You got to pay a carbon tax.
And it's just, you know, there's no such thing as privacy anymore.
If your politics are wrong, you'll be de-banked.
They even did that to Nigel Farage and even other, even cabinet ministers, it turned out, were debanked.
I really feel like the UK, which was the crucible of our freedoms in Canada and America, I believe you guys are further down the road to authoritarianism than either Canada or America.
Even under Trudeau, we have not gone as authoritarian as you guys are.
And you've just had 14 years of conservatives.
You can't even put that all at the feet of the Labour Party that hasn't even been in for a year.
14 years of this under the so-called conservatives.
How do you explain that?
They weren't conservative, never wanted to be, and did nothing.
I mean, one of the greatest examples coming out of this is now that they've lost power.
I mean, I hate to keep bringing it up, but the grooming gangs is just the, it's the perfect thing to demonstrate everything wrong with the country because it's just on every level a scandal.
It's the scandal alone of them being raped.
But the real scandal is the police not wanting to intervene because they're afraid of being called racist.
It's just hypothetic reason to let someone rape kids, but whatever.
So the fact that they've now lost power, you've seen every conservative former minister, or even the current leader, or people like Jacob Reese Mark, who lost their seat rightfully because they did nothing during all of this, complaining.
This is a real problem, should be solved.
Someone should do something.
And you're like, you were in power for 14 years.
You were a minister.
What do you mean, someone should do something?
I mean, if only you knew someone who had been in power for the last previous few years.
And I remember being in an activist position, because I used to work in UKIP, which came up in the interview, for example, that we went through all that.
And the feeling was that whenever you'd go to a conservative MP or minister or anything else, or even the activists, and talk about this, yeah, this problem's still ongoing.
The two-chier justice in the courts, because I've screwed, I'm just going to say it, is ridiculous.
I mean, just last week, there was this gang of white child rapists.
They were locked up.
Big hullabaloo about how we found a white gang of child rapists.
You know what?
They got life in prison, every single one of them.
The week before, a gang of brown Pakistani rapists are found, I think it might have been in Rotherham, a new round of people going to jail.
And some of them got two years.
Two years in prison.
There's a thing the UK media does that drives me crazy.
There'll be 20 rapists each sentenced to two years.
And the headline will be rape gang gets 40 years in prison.
What?
No, that's just 20 guys with two years each.
And by the way, they'll all be out in a third of the time.
I've never seen that bizarre way of counting like the cumulative sentence.
I've never seen any other country do that before, but that's how the British report it.
But it's endless, right?
You've got all these small things, which are just scandals in and of themselves.
So back when the conservatives were in power, you'd go to them with this issue and they would treat you like you were telling them that jet fuel can't melt steel beams.
Yeah.
I was just like, wow, wow, that's who you are fundamentally.
So now they're out of power and they're bleeding about how someone should do something.
I just, you know, I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.
You know, some of them have bruted the idea of arresting Elon Musk.
By the way, Elon Musk, to my knowledge, has not donated to any political party in the UK.
I mean, I think he might, but who knows?
He has not, as far as I know, bought any ads or anything.
He's just weighed in from his own bully pulpit on Twitter, which anyone could do.
Like, in a way, he's no different than Kim Kardashian or any British pundit.
You just, I think it's just his force of his personality and that people know he's a big shot.
He has just taken the British establishment and shaken it so hard, but not with his hands, just with his words on Twitter.
I mean, and there's calls for him to be investigated and calls for him to be arrested, but they're being very careful because they don't know how just how close he is to Trump.
It's quite, I mean, Emmanuel Macron arrested Dudov, Pavel Durov, the founder of Telegram, that social media app.
Macron invited him for dinner.
When he landed in Paris on his private jet, he was arrested.
And I think that that would be done to Elon Musk today if he did not have sort of the protective aura of Donald Trump behind him.
I think the UK would arrest Elon Musk just as much as they've arrested Tommy Robinson.
If it weren't, if Trump had not won the election, Elon Musk would be arrested on sight if he touched down in the UK.
Prove me wrong.
Well, the feeling in the UK, at least for the people complaining about the fact that he's telling people what the problems are, is the, I mean, the end goal is what if they just banned X?
I mean, no one in the UK would be surprised if that happened overnight.
Which, I mean, would you be surprised, even in Canada, if the UK just decided to do that?
They did it in Brazil.
They did it to other social media apps in France.
They deleted 40,000 Facebook pages that were critical of the regime.
They absolutely got away with that until Elon Musk watched Twitter.
So the answer is I would not be surprised.
And then, and what's the problem?
Like, literally, what's the complaint?
The complaint is that people can speak freely.
People's Right to Speak Freely00:03:08
I mean, there is no attempt to try and justify anything at this point.
It is just, you're a threat to our power.
You have to go.
Which, I mean, talk to every British person.
I mean, there's any poll that's done, there's about nine out of 10 people have a feeling that, yeah, no, both Labor and Conservative, you guys have had your chance.
You've done nothing good.
And that anyone that criticizes you, you just remove.
So no one would cry if they were both wiped out politically forever.
It wouldn't be a problem.
You know, Callum, we love the book 1984 by George Orwell, who was a quintessential Brit.
He was a man of the left, but he could see clearly.
And when he wrote his book, I think it was in 48 or 50, the Iron Curtain was revealing itself.
And so he was aware of the Nazi menace and the Soviet menace and the similarities.
We recently republished 1984 with sort of an illustrated edition, I'm very proud to say.
And I reread the book again.
And Orwell said, if there is hope, it lies with the proles.
And by that, he means the working class or the proletariat.
And there is something in the UK that I get sort of a naughty satisfaction out of.
And I shouldn't say this because I am a man of law and order.
But there's something in the UK.
I mentioned the ULES cameras before.
There's a group of Brits that call themselves Blade Runners.
And they run around the UK and they destroy these closed-circuit TVs.
They either take hacksaws and cut them down in a minute, or they spray paint.
I just want to show some videos of some of these blade runners running around the UK with their acts of illegal vandalism targeting this government surveillance system.
Here, take a quick look.
Now.
I want to say again that I actually do not believe in trespass to property and in crimes against property.
I don't.
I really don't.
And the way I confirm that I don't is I don't want the other side doing that to me.
So I've got to acknowledge that I don't want to do it to them.
Why We Don't Trespass00:17:26
But in a system where, as you point out, there's a uni party, or as some would say, two cheeks on the same arse to use a Britishism.
When the courts are of no help, when the regime media kicks in to reinforce the narrative.
And if they don't, there's something called Ofcom, the Office of Communications that'll regulate the TV.
Sometimes you have to say, well, if there's any hope, it's with the proles.
I don't know.
Is there hope for the UK?
Are you hopeful at all?
Is there any reason that this is going to get better?
So if you speak to the average person, if they're left-wing, they've got no hope and of giving up long ago.
But if they're right-wing or vaguely centrist or anything like that, most people seem to be looking to reform and Niger Farage as the last hope.
Because you're right.
For a lot of years now, you've had no political solution.
Your vote meant nothing.
That was not a way of reforming things.
Writing to your MP didn't do anything.
They treat you like you're a psychopath for bringing up that these are problems.
You couldn't organize resistance through the media.
You couldn't organize resistance with the courts.
There was no avenue to change things, legally speaking.
So, I mean, this is why, what can I say legally in the UK?
I've sort of think that.
So when the South Corps riots began, quite a lot of people, their reaction was not one of horror at violence.
It was instead, meh, what did you expect?
Which I, again, just to be perfectly clear for the people who are currently monitoring me, I don't endorse, but there's a reason for that.
So yeah, maybe if there is hope, it would be with the proles here.
I hope that reform can change things.
If they don't, it'll be nothing new.
So there's that side of it.
But to get back to your 1984 reference and to my arrest, well, sorry, detainment, not arrest, that the endless war with Eurasia or whoever we're at war with these days.
I mean, maybe from an American perspective, people think differently on this.
But my trips to the Russian Federation were of particular interest to the officers.
And we went through where I went, who I met, blah, blah, blah.
And initially, I'm thinking, yeah, they're concerned if I got recruited by the FSB, right?
So I'm working for the other side.
And I had to explain to them, no, they think I'm working for you.
And I have to be interrogated by them, just like this, in fact.
In fact, you're treating me exactly like the Russians treated me, just sitting me down and interrogating me.
So that's that.
But then when it got to my opinions, one of the things one of the officers brought up, he said to me directly, well, what do you think about the war in Ukraine and their fight for freedom?
What?
Like, we're the UK.
We're broke.
We're a joke.
I mean, the United States is currently just constantly dunking on us for all of our problems.
The idea that we have any real influence in Ukraine or the Ukrainians won the war over would care about us rather than the ones who actually gave them all the buckets of money, which is America, is just comical.
It's just one of those things where it's like, really?
This is what your concern is?
And what was funny is then we got onto my opinions on the UK in relation to that.
And I've explained to these two guys like, well, I'm kind of weirded out.
Why are we obsessed with sending them money and aid when they're not going to remember us and they don't really give a crap about us?
I mean, UK-Ukrainian relations didn't exist.
You can look it up on Wikipedia.
Literally didn't exist until like 2010.
And even then it's like, we've got an embassy.
Doesn't matter.
We don't have any historical legacy with each other.
And at the same time, the UK is failing in every single regard.
I mean, we just got over there, law and order, the justice system.
Politically, it's a complete quagmire.
And then you think just politically, sorry, economically, like I've got some Soviet rubles here, and I look at the exchange rate for great British pounds.
I started referring to them as good boy points because they might as well be.
Like economically, we're a joke.
When it comes to international relations, we're a joke.
And I don't know on what front things have got better in the last three decades.
And no one seems to be able to tell me where things have got better.
And I'm saying this to these officers.
And I'm talking about the economics.
I've just been to the Americas.
And like I see in the United States, my God, they're way richer than us.
And we used to be as rich, actually slightly richer than the average American.
And now we kind of look like peasants in a lot of regards.
And the constant joke when I was over there from my American friends was pointing something out.
I was saying, oh, use this thing.
And I'm like, what is that?
They're like, it's a garbage disposal.
You don't have those?
No, why would I?
And they're like, what do you mean, why would you?
I was describing it the other day to a British friend of mine.
He described a garbage disposal as decadent, a waste of money.
Why would you have that?
And I'm explaining this to the two police officers.
And I can see the cogs turning a little bit.
We're like, yeah, my salary hasn't moved in 20 years.
That's a good point.
So it's similar to we actually used to be wealthier than the Americans just 10 years ago.
And now we're poorer than the poorest state.
It's weird to me that you were asked for your political views about a live, contentious issue.
You know, even that phrasing war for freedom is, you know, there's a premise there that that's what the war is about.
I don't know.
I find it dark and despairing.
Canada was in a bad place too.
Trudeau panicked and dissolved the house and that sort of destroyed a bunch of terrible censorship laws that were working their way through parliament.
But if I had to tell you why I'm optimistic for Canada, it's because in some ways because of Trump and Elon Musk.
Because I don't know if you heard Mark Zuckerberg saying he's going to turn over a new leaf, abolish their fact checkers, lay off 40,000, you know, net nannies.
And the one thing, I don't know if you caught it, Callum, he said he's going to rely on the U.S. State Department to help him have this policy globally.
And he referenced Brazil and he referenced Europe.
So I think that Donald Trump is going to take a very different approach to free speech around the world.
And it's going to be an idealistic support of free speech, but it's also going to be a business support and say, hey, don't you dare touch our prized American companies, Instagram, Facebook, WhatsApp, Twitter, et cetera.
If you touch them in the name of censorship, you're hurting them economically and I'm going to fight you.
So I think that what Zuckerberg was telegraphing is that he's going to promote free speech globally because Trump wants it, but also because Trump will back him.
And that gives me some hope that those two guys, Musk and Trump, will push back the darkness of authoritarianism around the whole world.
Now, maybe I'm just a fool to think so.
Maybe I'm grasping at things, but that gives me some optimism.
I came out of Washington, D.C. the same day you did, I guess.
I was exhilarated.
Were you not?
Did you think that some of that freedom energy can spread around the world, or is that just a dream?
So people have been calling it the Trump Revolution because it doesn't feel like a slight change in government.
It feels like a revolution.
Things are really different in a lot of ways.
I mean, day one, you go from arresting one foreign rapist a day to a thousand and deporting them as well, not just keeping them.
That's massive.
Not to mention on all the other fronts, but that's the big one for Trump, right?
A lot of people have been whispering in the UK of needing a Trump revolution here.
That's what would solve things.
I imagine it's similar in Canada because that new energy, that ability to say, not only did the previous way not work, did tremendous harm.
And in fact, there's a different way of doing it.
And then demonstrating doing it and it working, that's threatening to anyone who wants to stay in this old version of doing things of censorship, mass migration, and just coddling people who are committing crimes.
That, I think, is maybe why you have so much hope.
I'm hoping that it's true.
I mean, one of that big things, I mean, the thing that they're doing there is not only demonstrating something, but they're shining a light on every stupid way of doing things, such as not dealing with the problem, but shutting down the person complaining about the problem.
I mean, the big thing that comes to mind in the UK here is Robinson, for example, friend of yours, one of the big hits he had was being banned from those social media companies, you mentioned.
And the way that happened, people don't seem to realize.
So the way he was banned from Facebook is there was this Muslim guy whose name escapes me now.
He's a lawyer.
And he had a meeting with Facebook at like 11 p.m.
And at 3 a.m., he tweets about how he's just had this meeting.
Next day, Robinson is gone because he mentions in there that he spoke to them about Robinson.
So that's him going from Facebook.
That's the route that happened.
Single guy complained about them in the UK like this.
The way he was banned from YouTube, which YouTube reaches a third of the planet's population monthly.
So that is the town square.
The way he was banned from there, the British parliament called in the YouTube director for the United Kingdom, had him in a little room.
And then two Labor MPs, these two women, were just complaining that they kept getting recommended Tommy Robinson's.
One of them is Cooper, now the Home Secretary, we've got a clip of that.
I played this clip a half a dozen times.
This American, there was an American there.
He was the head of counterterrorism for YouTube Google, which is a huge and important job, stopping actual terrorist recruitment, stopping terrorist propaganda.
Like he's a serious man on a serious mission.
He goes to the UK expecting to talk about ISIS or al-Qaeda.
All they want to talk to him about is Tommy Robinson.
He has no idea who that is.
And they keep saying, why do I keep getting served videos?
Well, it's because you keep clicking on it.
Here's an excerpt.
And Ms. Cooper here is now the home secretary, which is like the Minister of Domestic Affairs.
Take a look at this.
I know exactly what you're talking about, Cal.
Let me just play two minutes of this.
Take a look.
Your algorithms on YouTube, when you are searching for national action, will then promote the likes of Tommy Robinson and Britain first.
Despite the fact that the Finsbury Park mosque, where somebody was killed, and that's recently been in the headlines, despite the fact that videos of Tommy Robinson were cited as part of the online radicalization of Darren Osborne in the Finsbury Park court case, YouTube continues to promote them videos.
What have you got to say about that?
We are working to make sure that videos that promote hate or promote violence, if they violate our policies, are removed from the platform.
If they walk right up to the line, we have also, at the encouragement of this committee, developed a new enforcement mechanism to limit the features that these have.
They should not be appearing in our recommendation engine.
If they are, I will take this back to our team and see what the problem is.
Okay, but they are.
I mean, they are appearing.
They are in my recommended timeline at the moment.
So, because I've been searching on my iPad for national action videos, I, as a result, have the first two videos recommended to me by YouTube when I just click on, as I've just done this afternoon, I click onto YouTube, the first two recommendations are Tommy Robinson videos.
So, the Tommy Robinson that was identified as part of the Finsbury Park online radicalization process, that's what YouTube's recommended.
I've not searched for it.
YouTube has recommended that to me.
Doesn't that cause you some serious alarm?
I can't speak to these particular videos personally.
It causes me a lot of alarm, but I will take this back to our team and see why this has happened.
It's not even just about the individual videos, it's actually a recommended channel.
I have got up here, it is coming up as my recommended channels.
That one of the recommended channels for me is Tommy Robinson recommended channel.
I've also got British Warrior, I've got a series of other, you know, quite sort of extreme things that are coming up, but I have specifically Tommy Robinson recommended channel.
You can pass you my iPad.
It's important for the company and for our bottom line for the recommendation engine to work as it is intended to make sure that people can find quality content that they are looking for.
It should not be serving up videos that incite or inspire hate.
If it is, there is a problem, and I will take it back to the team and see that it's addressed.
But lots of people have raised this with you.
This is not just us, this is not the first time.
I do not believe this is the first time you have heard this.
Allegations and concerns that your algorithms are promoting more and more extreme content at people.
Whatever they search for, what they get back is a whole load more extreme recommendations coming through the algorithms.
You are the king of the search engine, and yet your search engines are promoting things that further and further radicalize people.
Whatever they search for, they get something more back.
They basically made a political demand.
What I'm hoping is that if that happens next time, the American executive goes back home and says to Trump, Dad, they were picking on me.
And then Trump picks up a club and says, You got to censor my boy.
That's how I'm hoping it goes down next time.
I don't know.
YouTube, Google are the worst.
They're actually the worst.
Yeah.
There's some willfulness to play that game, but I'm hopeful as well.
I mean, you've got to feel bad for the YouTube guy there.
He's having to hold back his words because he's just like, oh, these boomers.
If you click on his videos repeatedly, you'll keep getting recommended to him.
It's not complicated, you fools.
But he can't say it.
But either way, they did comply.
And that sort of action.
Imagine if a senator, you know, a couple of senators who don't like, I don't know, Tim Paul or whoever else, right?
Call in the head of YouTube and keep complaining, I keep clicking on Tim Paul's videos and you keep recommending them to ban him.
And then they banned him the next day.
I mean, it's unthinkable.
It just wouldn't happen in the US.
But that's what happened in the UK.
No justification whatsoever other than two pissed-off women MPs.
Right.
That's the way the UK operates.
All the other things we've mentioned.
It's just a complete travesty of any kind of reasonable operation.
The only thing that's changed is Elon Musk coming to power and shining a light on how this has all been going on.
The British here and the English are finally getting to see how much things have gone wrong on a platform that's massive like X in real time.
Well, Callum, we sometimes crowdfund for people.
I mean, we do it a lot in Canada, occasionally in America, Australia, and even in the UK.
Until very recently, we crowdfunded the bulk of Tommy Robinson's battles on the Terrorism Act and his contempt of court matter.
And we do it.
It's in our blood because we believe that sometimes you just got to step in with action, not just words.
If you get into a pickle for what you've said, and if you need some help, we've got some Terrorism Act lawyers.
I'm making you an offer on TV that if you need help, there's not a lot they can do, to be honest, if they arrest you under that Terrorism Act, as you've accurately described.
But I'm worried about you.
I mean, I don't know your work as well as I know some of the other work from you used to be at Lotus Eaters, which is a very philosophical channel.
But it's clear that you've been targeted for your politics, not for anything terrorist-y that you've done.
I hope you remain safe and free.
And if you don't, if you don't have the resources in the UK or an infrastructure, I believe that it's within the mandate of Rebel News and our viewers, we have a UK viewership that I think would support it.
So this is just me making an unsolicited offer to help you because I get mad when I hear these things.
And I know how they treated Tommy.
And I think they're trying to scare a lot of people off.
You've been very generous with your time, by the way.
I think we only booked you for 10 minutes, and here we are coming up on an hour.
It's just very interesting to talk about.
And I'm a bit of an Anglophile in my own way.
How can people follow your stuff?
I'd like to see your videos from Afghanistan.
I'd like to see your videos from Zimbabwe and Kosovo and Russia.
And I'd like to see these, especially now that I know the government doesn't want me to see them.
What's the easiest way to get your stuff?
So the best way is to go to YouTube and type in Britannica and it will come up.
It's or type in tourism in Afghanistan.
That's the biggest video in terms of views.
So that should come up as well.
You'll see my face in the thumbnail surrounded by Taliban.
So that's the way to find it.
If you like what I do, I do give out trinkets from all these trips as well, from what I have left over.
So for example, I mentioned I got Soviet rubles here, and I've also got some Zimbabwe dollars, hundreds of trillions of Zimbabwe dollars.
So you're a trillionaire.
Hundred and hundreds and hundreds of trillionaire, adjusted myself.
But I give these out for people who subscribe on Subscribestar.
So that's another question the police had, which is they wanted to know what about my finances.
So what's your income?
What are your sources of income?
Where do you keep your money?
Which accounts?
Why They Checked Finances00:02:49
Oh my God.
Yeah, didn't enjoy that because then they've got your phone.
So there's no point lying.
Like, that's that's what my Bitcoin is, for example.
They already knew that.
But I hand these out to people who subscribe.
So if you subscribe on Subscribestar, I will send you some Soviet rubles and some Buckley dollars while stocks last.
And then I also saw that's a real collectible.
And, you know, in the UK, I'm sure it'll be converted at par quite soon.
Yeah, one for one.
I also saw some other things.
So this is a sneak peek into El Salvador.
I found some Bukele, I don't know what you'd call that, but that's what they're selling.
That's very cool.
Yeah, he's sort of a cool dude.
Well, listen, Kelvin, it's nice to spend some time with you.
I mean, I know I bumped into you once or twice in the UK.
It's a small place.
And you're right.
London is really the big metropolis.
And if you're banned from there, you're sort of banned from public life.
I'm upset with what's being done with this law.
It's mission creep and it's being politically weaponized.
And I believe that you've done nothing that even comes within a mile of terrorism.
I think that just is a law that's being used to stop and grill journalists, political activists, and private citizens who catch the eye of some politically motivated police chief who would rather crack down on a YouTuber than on a rape gang.
I'm very disappointed.
And I hope that the UK can find its way back to liberty, which is your country's greatest gift to the world, is liberty and the Magna Carta and Areopagitica and your whole and Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations.
So much of freedom ideology comes from the UK.
The formation of a high trust society, everything that the UK has done historically and culturally has been as a benefit to the free men around the world.
And it is painful to see it slip away.
So I wish you personal success.
I wish your country success.
And I hope that in the future we have happier things to talk about.
But thank you for being with us today.
Thanks for having me, man.
And thanks for the all for defending me if things get worse here.
Well, next time calendar, I'll come and say hi.
Send me a note if you want to take me up on that, because at the very least, we should have a lawyer on standby for you if they, God forbid, pull you over again.
It makes me mad.
It makes me mad to hear about that.
All right.
There he is, Calumdera, fighting for freedom in his own way, a world globe-trotting journalist.
You can find him at Britannica.
Britannica?
Or Britannica?
Yeah.
Britannica.
Britannica.
Britannica with a C on YouTube.
All right.
That's our show for today.
Until next time, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, see you at home.
Good night and keep fighting for freedom.
Britannica On YouTube00:00:47
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