A Muslim man challenges Avi Yemini, a Zionist protesting in Brisbane, over Israel’s October 7 retaliation and Hamas’s 1987 charter calling for Jewish annihilation. Yemini condemns civilian deaths by either side but demands verified proof of Hamas atrocities, citing disputed claims like Neturei Karta’s influence. He argues Israel must defend itself without excessive collateral damage, favoring targeted operations over bombing Gaza’s densely populated areas. The man counters with accusations of apartheid and Hamas’s use of children as human shields, forcing Yemini to admit his stance lacks direct condemnation of broader Israeli actions due to unverified reports. Both highlight the rarity of civil discourse on these issues, leaving accountability for civilian deaths unresolved amid conflicting narratives. [Automatically generated summary]
Do you believe Israel has the right to get rid of Hamas who calls for the annihilation of the Jewish state and have shown that they're willing to commit any atrocity to get the job done?
I believe Israel have the right to defend themselves.
But not at all costs, not with collateral damage.
I've YMNE for Rebel News back in Melbourne, Australia, after a fantastic weekend in Brisbane, where I covered the Hakka for Israel.
protest.
You've probably seen the video by now.
It's gone absolutely viral.
But something that didn't make the cut in that video was an interaction that happened at the end where a Muslim man walked up to me to begin a conversation.
A conversation that I think the entire world needs to watch.
You're obviously wearing a t-shirt that says justice and you've got Al-Aqsa Mosque there.
So what does justice mean to you?
Justice means to me what's right.
So let's say for instance, if I came to your house, you still live in Melbourne?
Yep.
Right.
If I came to your house in Melbourne, bash your child, because I said, you know, I'm Aboriginal.
So back in the day, this used to be, you know, my land or whatever it is.
So if I just bash your child, kick your family out, is that justice to you?
Simple question.
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
So I'm for justice.
What's right and what's wrong?
You know what I mean?
So based on that, do you condemn what Hamas did on October 7?
I condemn pineapples on pizza.
You know, it's a ridiculous thing.
Was that justice?
Hebron's Complex Reality00:03:20
If it is true what Hamas did, if they came in and they killed innocent people, 100%.
Any Muslim in the world would condemn that.
So I don't know why that's the first question every time.
Because if you look at the Quran, it says killing one person unjustly is like killing all of humanity, right?
So that's the first question.
So I'll ask you a follow-up question.
Do you condemn the retaliation from Israel?
So hold on a second.
No, I don't because I think there's a very big difference.
So firstly, hold on.
Let's step back a second and then we'll talk about that.
I'll go there with you.
But when you, so what I noticed, because it's not getting condemned by the Islamic community, it's not being condemned at all.
What community are you looking at?
You're seeing what's on Twitter, what's on Facebook, you're seeing what's there.
If you went to the mosque...
But even you, even you right now, when I asked you the question, you said, if it's true.
So why are so many in your community questioning the truth when Hamas themselves put the videos up?
Do you believe America knocked down the towers or did you believe like Osam bin Laden and his six mates did it?
Because it's a conspiracy.
If you look at where they actually entered, that's one of the most patrolled borders in the world, correct?
I know the border.
I served there.
That was my deployment.
That was your deployment.
You were there.
I'm looking at non-Muslims.
I'm looking at Muslims.
I'm looking at a lot of Orthodox Jews as well that are saying there's a possibility.
I'm not looking into the conspiracy of it.
There's a possibility that it was allowed to happen or somewhat conspired.
Even if it was allowed to happen, let's just park that for a second.
If they did what they did, I'll condemn it.
100%.
What if I tell you that I was there?
I've been there.
I've seen it.
I've also served on it.
And I have many of the same questions you have about how it happened.
But I'm saying it happened.
So you condemn it?
100%.
100% what's true.
But I'm telling you, it happened.
Okay, so why is the First question ever, do you condemn what Israel have been doing since 1945 with the preoccupation of land and the innocent killings of people in West Bank?
Because if we're talking Hamas, there's no Hamas in West Bank.
True?
There isn't.
That's the biggest lie.
There is Hamas in the West Bank.
In Hevron, Hebron is actually Hevron.
Do you know Hebron?
Hebron?
In that area.
In West Bank.
Yeah, that's in West Bank.
So Hebron is actually run.
That's a part of the West Bank that is run by Hamas.
don't know that because you know so what I would say to you there's no argument about that So what I would say to you is, I would invite you to come with me there and see it for yourself because a lot of the knowledge that you get, like a lot of the talking points that you're giving here, like Hamas doesn't exist in the West Bank, is fabrication.
It's not true.
According to Orthodox Jews and according to Muslims that live in the area, that's completely true.
That there's no hummus in the West Bank.
Which Orthodox Jews live there?
I know which Orthodox Jews you're referring to.
And you're talking about Naturai Kurta.
Would you consider yourself a Zionist?
Yes.
Yes, okay, so what I'm seeing...
Do you know what a Zionist is?
Hey?
Do you know what it is?
I'd love to know the complete clinical definition of a Zionist.
Zionist is somebody that believes in the Jewish state for the Jewish people, like what you would call a patriot in Australia.
So somebody that believes in Israel.
That's all it means.
It's become a dirty word.
You can reject a two-part state, right?
No, not true.
Most Zionists believe in two states.
Hey?
Not true.
most ironists actually believe in two states right so you're talking about like the specific all i'm saying is like worldwide you see orthodox jews because you don't have the curly things you don't wear the hat Like if I saw you on the street, you look like you're a Lebo from Sydney.
Charter of Annihilation00:15:54
Honestly, that's how I would say.
But they're all marching saying what Israel are doing are wrong.
According to the Torah, it's wrong.
So what they're doing is wrong.
Why is that?
I can tell you.
See, they're from a group called the Natura Kauta.
It's a specific, tiny, tiny sect in Judaism.
Now, the reason why they stand against Israel is not for the reason that they're often used and elevated.
Their message has been amplified by everybody, especially in the Islamic community.
According to the scripture, they believe that Israel should not be controlled by Jews until after the Messiah comes.
So it's actually just a religious argument.
And there are many in the Orthodox community that believe it.
There's a tiny sect.
So in the ultra-Orthodox community that believe that, there's a tiny sect that go as far as rallying with those that will kill the Jews.
They will rally with pro-Hamas.
They will side with Hamas.
I'll go to Iran, but they're not representing.
The difference of opinion, what's in the scripture then?
Would you say that's true?
Just scripture.
So there's nothing.
Historic.
Sunnis, Shia, there's splits, there's difference of opinion.
Probably a good example, but even less than Sunni and Shia, because Sunni and Shia, you have, you know, 85% are Sunni, 15% are Shia.
The difference here you're talking about in the Jewish context, that group probably is 0.001 of the Jewish community.
There are only a handful around the world and they like to make themselves present and their message is often amplified.
Let me put it to you this way.
There are many Muslims that stand with Israel.
So does that justify?
Does that make it true?
Just because some Muslims...
I'm talking about around the world.
No, around the world as well.
But there are many Muslims that stand with Israel.
Very few.
In comparison...
1.8 million people live in Israel, okay?
But it's like Australia, right?
Like, if they're to commit atrocities, right?
If any country is to commit atrocities, it doesn't matter who it was.
America, New Zealand, if anyone commits atrocities, right?
I believe at the end of the day, it should be condemned if the collateral damage outweighs what they're actually going to do.
Similar to Israel, right?
Israel is trying to get rid of Hamas.
Statistics are in from the IDF that 60, or they say dozens, 60 to 100 Hamas leaders have died, and there's proof now that there's over 10,000 children died.
That's one to 100.
So to kill Hamas, 30,000 Hamas members, 300 innocent million, oh no, 3 million innocent Palestinians need to die.
According to statistics, that's released by the IDF.
So let's just say- It's not released by the IDF.
Hold on.
It's released by Mohammed Hijab.
No, that was a good idea.
Who quoted the IDF and then when he asked the source, there's no source.
Show me the source.
There is no source of that.
That's a source of that.
Yeah, they said 62 weeks ago, three weeks ago.
Okay, so it's probably grown, right?
In three weeks?
Would you say it's grown?
200, 300.
Is there anything on that?
How many have killed?
I'm just saying, I'm just saying, really, if Hamas continued to go into Palestine, sorry, and they were just dropping bombs because they said the idea for terrorists, we've got to get rid of them.
And the whole world was like, let's get rid of the IDF.
That'd be bullshit.
I'd stand against them.
Because you know why?
Because I'd hate to see little Israeli babies before they've even lived their life, whether they're Jews, because you do have Christians there too, right?
You do have Muslims there.
I'd hate to see it because they never even got to live their life.
But my biggest thing that I will say is people in your position, whether you're Jew, Christian, or not, you won't condemn, will you, the innocent killing of children in Palestine?
Can you say that verbally?
Would you be able to kill them?
I feel.
I feel.
Would you condemn it?
Because I condemn Hamas if they killed innocent people, but you can't condemn Israel for killing innocent people also on a larger scale, on a hundred times larger scale.
So listen, so firstly, you question Hamas even killing them.
Because I don't know.
Okay, but then you believe Hamas's talking points about how many died and how many of their people.
It was Hamas.
It was Israel.
Whether it was like the Daily Telegraph or whatever of Israel.
So I'm telling you that that's not true, right?
So it's a much higher number, and so it's a much higher number of terrorists that have been eliminated, and it's a much lower number than the tens of thousands that they're reporting.
Do you think there's over 10,000 kids?
No, I don't.
Hold on.
But let me ask you something.
No, no, hold on.
How could you downplay that over 10,000 people killed?
How can you downplay what Hamas published on October 7?
How can you question what Hamas did?
It's not that.
It's not that.
I'm just saying.
You asked me before what's justice, right?
Killing any innocent person to me is not justice.
Okay, fair enough.
Is there a difference?
Hold on.
Is there a difference between going in and purposely targeting civilian, going home to home, butchering, raping, beheading, cutting the breasts off women, putting babies in ovens?
And kidnapping.
They did put babies.
And your evidence is?
Hamas admitted it?
They provided the evidence for all they see.
I'm saying, I haven't read that.
I haven't read that.
Again, again, one second, wait a second.
My point is, now, you see, and then they took 240 something hostages over to Gaza.
Now, compare that to an army trying to target the terrorists, okay, who committed those atrocities and in the process have killed innocent civilians, which is horrible.
How can you compare one to the other?
One where they purposely go...
One was a ground war and the other was dropping bombs.
120%.
How can you call that a ground war?
How can you call that a ground war?
Say that what they did, like I said, I don't know the evident facts, right?
Because I've never seen it.
Let's pretend it's true.
You see how you just accept Hamas's narrative.
No, no, no, no, because I've seen bombs drop on innocent kids, so I've seen them die.
What Hamas did and what they did, I don't know what they did.
They published it for themselves.
They published it for themselves.
They ran live fees.
Listen, do you know, you know a lot about Islam because you've debated people a lot of times.
In Islam, you can't sever a body, okay?
You can't hurt women, you can't hurt children, you can't even hurt a tree, okay?
You should condemn them outright, and everybody should.
Before October 7, most of the world, most of us didn't even know who Hamas was.
All I'm saying is...
Have you read their charter?
I haven't read their charter.
calls for the annihilation of the Jewish people.
IDF has a charter as well.
Not like that, but it has similar ways on the charter.
So tell me something in the IDF charter that's similar to...
I'm not educated on the IDF charter.
All I'm saying is, and this is really basic, okay?
Hamas goes in, say they go in, and everything's true, 100% true.
They mutilated people, they killed people, and we're talking innocent people.
It wasn't IDF soldiers, okay?
That happened.
100% that should be condemned because you're killing innocent people, okay?
At the end of the day, anyone would condemn that.
Like Muhammad Hijab, he condemns that.
No, he doesn't.
No, he doesn't condemn Hamas as a whole.
He condemns that act.
You condemn Hamas as a whole?
I don't know.
Enough about it.
Let me tell you, let me tell you, I don't condemn IDF as a whole, but you have to look at the individual situation.
So what I believe a justifiable response would be, because if someone come to Australia, I'm Australian-born and did that, I would want retaliation.
Because someone killed my mum, someone killed my daughter.
So my retaliation was, let's just not drop bombs where we think they are.
Let's infiltrate the area.
Okay, so IDF have a huge army.
Why aren't they going there on foot targeting actual Hamas?
And you'll say, oh, well, they're putting kids on themselves as shields, right?
Why aren't they going in there and fighting like real men?
Why are they just dropping bombs?
But they are.
They are going in.
There's not as much.
There's bombs landing everywhere, so if you look at it at the end of the day...
Are you a military expert?
No, I'm not.
How do you know how to actually engage an enemy like that that hides behind civilians?
The orphanage that had one Hamas leader there, hundreds of kids got killed.
Will you condemn that?
Will you condemn that?
So you're talking one person died.
Why was he in an orphanage?
I don't know.
If it was.
I do know.
But you're laughing when they say human shields.
Why would a leader of Hamas be in an orphanage?
Why I ask you that question?
The more question is, I can condemn Hamas if they commit atrocities, but you can't condemn the IDF for killing hundreds of kids to kill one person.
Do you think that's justifiable?
Why are you putting the blame solely on Israel when the Hamas leader, you're saying, went into an orphanage at a time where they're being hunted for the atrocities they committed?
Because you know why?
There's videos of it happening.
There's photos of all the little children dead.
Why are you laying that?
Why are you laying it?
No, but I'm saying if it's true, why don't you condemn Hamas for using those children?
You couldn't send a sniper there to just headshot him?
Listen, I'm not a military expert.
No, I served.
That doesn't make me an expert.
You condemn hundreds of people dying because of one person and you're saying, well, it's Hamas's fault.
He's using that whole orphanage.
Absolutely.
Imagine, I could only imagine if people want, like, say, I don't even know how to say his name, the president of Israel, all these other big top shot Israeli people, if he was in one spot and the opportunity arose to kill him, but the collateral damage was hundreds of kids in Israel, no one would stand for that.
That's disgusting.
How could you do that?
Are you kidding me?
You think the Arab world wouldn't take that shot?
You're talking about Arab leaders.
No, I'm talking about Muslims.
There's a difference between Arab leaders.
You think the Muslim world would not support killing Bibi Netanyahu if he was amongst kids?
No, 100%.
If that meant killing hundreds of people, I can go.
I'll ask you.
Honestly, I genuinely believe you're a good person.
No, no, no, please do this because there's hundreds of Muslims here on the park.
Just ask them a simple question.
If Benjamin, how do you say his last name?
Benjamin Netanyahu.
It's not even his real name.
He changed it.
Anyway.
That's Bibi.
You're talking about.
Bibby's not his real name.
Benjamin Netanyahu is his real name.
It was like a weird, like, not even.
No.
Or the other guy changed his name.
Anyway, one of them changed their name.
Somebody, he changed his name.
What's your name now?
No, my name's Avraham.
But Avi is it.
Ibrahim.
Anyway, all I'm saying, go out now, make it a quest.
Say, if Benjamin, whatever his name was, was in an orphanage, would you support dropping a bomb and killing hundreds of kids?
You won't get anything.
Why do I need to ask them?
Because they all support October 7 where they went in and butchered civilians.
Go ask all of them.
Who denied it even happened?
Who?
All of them.
Who support that?
So you don't.
You just deny it happened.
Hundreds and thousands.
No, I'm saying I haven't seen evidence, but I'm saying if the stories are true, condemn.
You've seen evidence of the kids in Gaza.
Yeah, I have.
Show me videos right now of what Hamas.
Please show me videos right now.
I haven't seen it, then I can believe it.
That's a valid question.
That's a valid question.
You don't know what rock you're living under if you haven't seen the footage published by Hamas themselves live stream.
If I'm a Muslim and I search that, I can get locked up.
Like, you know what I mean?
Just for looking at it.
Do you know what?
All I'm saying is if it's true, it's wrong.
If it's true that the Hamas leader was at the orphanage, it's wrong.
To me, it's wrong.
Any killing of any innocent person is wrong.
If it's true that their charter states that they want to rid the Jews from the land.
What charter is that?
The Hamas charter says that they want to read the whole charter.
Do you have the charter?
Like, the charter literally states they want the annihilation of the Jewish state.
No Jewish state.
Do you condemn Hamas?
What do you say?
Why is this the question?
Why are you asking that?
I condemn pineapples on pizza.
I condemn Hamas, but they've been too.
It's okay.
You know, at the end of the day.
So you see, there's a double standard here.
I'll condemn acts of terror.
I will.
So if one person surrounds himself by kids, if the worst mass murderer surrounds himself by kids, that gives him a free pass for his crimes?
No, you take him out a different way.
You get a sniper and you headshot him.
You don't drop a bomb on an orphan.
How do you know that that's possible?
How do you know that that's possible?
There's other alternatives.
How do you know?
You're not a military expert.
You're saying everything about what Hamas did.
Hamas did.
I'm saying what they say for themselves.
Do you believe that Israel should be annihilated?
Hey, of course not.
So why is it so hard to say that anyone that does should be condemned?
Especially in Israel.
You can't say it out of your words.
You can't say it out of your mouth.
You'll condemn acts of Israel.
But if it's not, I condemn them Hamas.
No, Hold on.
I will condemn.
It hasn't come out of your mouth.
I condemn.
It hasn't come out of your mouth.
I condemn.
It hasn't come out of your mouth.
I'm saying, I condemn again.
And you're the one who posted it.
I condemn.
He was the one who posted years ago, nice headshot, the guy who got killed in the head.
True.
He didn't get killed.
You said headshot?
Did you say headshot?
Hold on, can I talk?
It's like it was a video game.
No, no.
You know what?
I regret some of the ways I spoke a few years ago.
Do you regret saying that?
Yes.
You do regret that saying that.
If you had your way, you wouldn't have said it again.
I wouldn't have said it again.
But no, no, 100%.
And it was taken out, like it's taken out of context all of what I was saying.
I was saying you can kill jihadis.
I didn't say Palestinians.
No, I'm just saying that.
About that shot.
About that guy.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I regret saying that.
Okay.
And I also condemn any acts from any individual soldier.
Those are bad people in what is a good force trying to protect its civilians.
And that person should be held to account.
So you've got a different belief then?
You don't believe Palestinians are animals?
I don't believe Palestinians are animals.
No.
Why would you believe that?
A human is born an animal.
I can show you videos right now.
Of Israel, they say stupid things.
Muslims say stupid things.
Is that you?
I actually talked to you and you're actually really reasonable.
I go into many situations where they're not.
So are they you?
Are you them?
I'm a Muslim.
No.
But you've got to understand, right?
At the end of the day, you're not a Jew.
I'm sorry.
You're not a Jew.
You don't believe in the text.
You don't believe in what come before.
And therefore, you queried whether there's a God or not.
What am I?
Why do so many Muslims hate me for being a Jew?
Can I get a free pass, brother?
But because you're supporting Israel.
You come across as a Jew, but you're not.
I support Israel.
You know why?
Because let me tell you something.
You know why I support Israel?
Because I've read Hamas's charter and they're talking about the annihilation of me, my people, my mum, my cousins, my brothers, my sisters, that you refuse to say is not okay.
And if that was the other way around.
I'm going to say it's not okay if they commit those acts.
I said it's not okay.
No, no, not the acts.
No, no.
The charter that says that want to annihilate me and my family and my people.
I'm not educated on that matter enough.
Let's pretend it's true.
Let's pretend it's true.
Do you think Israel should be?
In one section, it clearly states, Israel will exist and continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.
That was the martyr he wrote in there, the martyr Imam Hussain al-Bana of blessed memory.
That's what it says.
What number is that?
Well, it's not a number, it's a whole text.
It's a whole text that explains all of it.
So there has to be a clear...
So what can Israel do?
There has to be a clear distinguish.
Like, there has to be a clear separation, right?
So, if I bash this guy right now for no reason, are you going to blame me as a whole?
Me as a human, me as a group, or would you say that Muslim guy?
I'm a human acting out of Islam, right?
Let me put it to you this way.
Hold on, let me answer you.
Let me answer you.
Has not killed, right?
Hold on, one second.
One second.
If you wrote a Facebook post that said you want to get rid of all Asian people and you came and bashed him, then I will blame you personally plus what you believe in, and I would say we need to get rid of people like you.
So, first, what you have to make a clear distinction is, right?
If that's in their charter, obviously, that's not right because that's against the Quran.
Wrapping Us in Apartheid00:03:21
Do you support the IDF getting rid of Hamas who have a charter like that?
Because there's no way to peace when there's a charter that says the other side doesn't have a right to exist.
No, because at the end of the day, I'm not going to support one group or the other when I don't have enough information on them.
But you're about justice.
Hey, I'm about justice, and justice doesn't mean dropping a bomb and killing hundreds of kids to kill one person.
No, but I'm saying, forget that for a second.
Do you believe Israel has the right to get rid of Hamas, who calls for the annihilation of the Jewish state and have shown that they're willing to commit any atrocity to get the job done?
I believe Israel have the right to defend themselves, but not at all costs, not with collateral damage.
I say this: the innocent people of Israel go in one spot, right?
Hear me out.
It might sound crazy.
The innocent people of Palestine go to one spot.
Those who want to fight fight in a designated area.
What do you think they're doing right now when they're telling civilians to go bomb that area?
They bombed the area.
They do not bomb the south.
They do not bomb the south.
Meanwhile, in the north, you have Hamas leaders who are surrounding themselves by children because they want people like you to fight their cause.
At the end of the day, you're saying that Hamas is in the West Bank.
Okay, so I'm going off people who live there.
I'm telling you facts.
Like, because it's not a fact you can argue.
It's a fact.
When was Hamas...
And I'm saying...
When did Hamas establish?
Avi?
I don't have the years in front of me when they were established.
I've actually got it.
I've got a flight to catch.
It'll be around 1960s.
I've got a flight to catch, actually.
Just to wrap this up.
Just to wrap this up.
Around 1960s?
1987 so there's been 1948 before 1945 yeah The apartheid.
It's been going for that long since 1946.
I'm calling it apartheid, but it's.
It is.
Because Jews have the rightful act to come back and no other person does.
No black person, no Muslim.
That's apartheid.
Two million Arabs there, bro.
My officer in the army was an Arab.
That's fine.
There's Arabs.
Is that apartheid?
I'm just saying they don't have the right to return.
That's not what apartheid means.
You're minimizing the pain that people went through in apartheid.
Anyway, listen.
Can I ask?
It's terrible what happened.
Just quickly to wrap this up.
Because at the end of the day, why I only have your respect is you said you'll condemn an act of terror from IDF if they commit it.
If they kill an innocent person, you'll commit it.
If that is true, that they killed hundreds of people for one guy, would you agree with that?
So again, I think the circumstances matter.
And my argument was, if a perpetrator of atrocities hides amongst his own kids, remember, Hamas should be doing everything they can to protect their own children.
Instead, they're using them so that they can get people like you to fight their battle here on the streets of Brisbane.
That's what they do.
Yeah, because what you see are the images of kids.
Now, why do you think it works in Israel's best interest to kill kids?
You're going on a rant, I ask you.
The collateral damage is hundreds.
Collateral damage.
Let's say it's true.
Let's say it's true.
Collateral damage, he's the worst person in the world.
Okay?
No, not really.
You're not.
I'm saying, for instance, is it okay?
Just a simple yes or no, please don't go on a tangent.
Just say, is it okay to kill someone who's the worst person in the world in a condensed area where there's hundreds of people as collateral damage?
And it's not the only way.
You can infiltrate the area, you can set up snipers, do whatever you have to do.
Orphanage Hit: Accountability Needed00:01:30
I'm just saying.
If there are other ways, if there are the ways.
Yes, can damn it.
Absolutely.
No, you're the first person.
But you preface it with, you say that if there were other ways to do it, absolutely.
You know what I'm talking about, that orphanage that got hit?
I'm listening to what you're saying.
You know the orphanage that got hit from.
We've talked about it.
If you've been in the IDF, what would be a better strategic way for less numbers to be killed?
I'm asking you.
I'm telling you, have you ever fought in a war?
No, I haven't.
I tell you now, Ghazi is one of the most highly populated places on the planet, and it is a very hard terrain to fight in.
So my argument to you is that instead of placing all your anger at the Israelis who are being backed into a corner, you should hold those Hamasniks accountable for using your Muslim children as human shields because that's what they're doing.
All I'll say to you now, because I've never seen it, I need to see proof.
If you think it's important for the world to see that it is possible for two Aussies with opposing views to have a civil conversation about such a polarising issue, make sure to like, comment, but most importantly, share it far and wide because there's not enough of this going around at the moment.
And then head over to followavi.com.
Make sure to subscribe to the mailing list and follow me across all platforms just in case one of my next videos is too spicy for the platform you're watching this on right now.