Maxime Bernier, PPC leader, faces a June 19th by-election in Portage Lisgar, Manitoba, where his party’s 22% support—all from disaffected Conservatives—could unseat incumbent Candace Bergen. His $2,000 fine for a 15-person outdoor rally, deemed political repression, highlights pandemic-era civil liberties abuses, with an appeal pending. Bernier’s grassroots focus on German-speaking Mennonite and conservative rural voters contrasts media bias, offering a test of whether traditional right-wing values can win without polls or national backing. A PPC victory here could signal a shift in Canada’s political landscape. [Automatically generated summary]
Hey, we like talking to Maxime Bernier, the People's Party.
He's always interesting and a very principled freedom fighter.
But he's actually running for parliament in a special by-election in the riding of Portage Lisgar in Manitoba.
And you may not know that riding, but let me tell you something about it that might get your attention.
I think it's the riding with the highest PPC vote in the entire country.
I think it was there.
22% voted for the PPC last time, and the incumbent Conservative is not running again.
I think the lad might have a chance.
We'll talk to him about that and other things.
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All right, here's today's podcast.
Tonight, a feature interview with Maxime Bernier, the leader of the People's Party of Canada.
He's running in a by-election that the PPC might just win.
It's May 22nd, and this is the Ezra Levant Show.
Shame on you, you censorious bug.
Well, there's a joke and it's funny in other circumstances, but it is terribly unfunny in this one.
The old joke was, every politician deserves to serve two terms.
The first in parliament, the second in prison.
It's a joke, but it's not funny here because our guest today is one of the only Canadian politicians in history I can think of who was actually jailed as a political expression of, well, a punishment for him.
And now he again seeks a term of office in office in that same province.
You can probably guess I'm talking about Maxime Bernier.
And you probably know that the arrest and jail time I'm referring to is when he dared to campaign in Manitoba during the pandemic.
And no one less than Brian Pallister, the former MP for the seat he is now contesting in Manitoba, told Maxime Bernier, get out or we will do our worst to you.
It was terrible politics.
It wasn't even politics.
It was bullying.
It was using the instruments of the state to punish a rival.
Enough from me.
Let me welcome back to the program the leader of the People's Party of Canada and a friend of the show, Maxime Bernier.
Maxime, great to see you again.
Thanks for taking the time to be with us.
Thank you, Ezra.
I'm very pleased to have that opportunity to be with you.
Well, my joke, it was not a good one, but you actually recently were convicted, weren't you, of a legacy pandemic law.
I mean, the pandemic has been over for ages, but you were in fact convicted and fined.
And in this bizarre footage, you were jailed briefly, but you were jailed nonetheless.
Let's just remind viewers what that looked like.
Afternoon, sir.
If I can get you to step out of the vehicle, I'm going to place you under arrest right now.
Yeah.
Right now, you're under arrest under the provincial health orders.
Okay, so if you can just put your hands behind your back, please towards the vehicle.
Okay, give me one hand here.
I'll get you to see the vehicle, okay?
Thank you.
The other hand?
Do you have any weapons or anything on you, sir?
Weapon?
No, no weapon.
Only on you, only my words.
Anything like that?
Sorry?
Anything on you that's going to hurt me or anything like that?
No, no, anything would hurt you.
Only my words.
Only my philosophy.
Only what I believe in.
Okay.
All right, come on over this way.
I'll explain a few things that you hear right away.
Meeting in the Park00:04:48
How that video did not receive universal outrage and condemnation, not just in the media, but also from politicians of every stripe and civil libertarians.
remains a very dark moment to me that Canadians in the establishment at least were just fine with a politician being jailed for daring to go and meet constituents.
How did it go in court?
I mean, I think it's outrageous that you were jailed and fined and convicted at all.
What did the judge say?
First, Ezra, I must say that you and Tucker were the only two who had, you know, I won't say the courage, but you spoke about that, what that happened during the last election.
The mainstream media didn't want to, you know, cover what happened to me.
That was the first time in the history of our country that the leader of a political party has been arrested and put in jail for a non-crime after a meeting in a park.
So, and I was, you're right, recently in court, and I had the opportunity to speak to the judge because, you know, I didn't plead guilty.
That's very important.
I signed an agreement and I said, you know, I agree with the facts because I didn't want the crown to take three days to prove that I was there at a rally outside with 15 people.
So I said, I'm a responsible person.
And yes, I'm admitting that I did that.
And so I said to the court, this is what I did.
And that's why, you know, instead of being three days in court, it was just a morning, three hours, and I was able to save money for the taxpayer here.
So, and after that, and the judge said, do you have something to say to the court?
I said, absolutely.
I said, you know, this is what I did.
You have a video of what I did, a meeting in a park during the pandemic.
But don't forget, Your Honor, it was a year and a half after the beginning of that pandemic.
So at that time, we knew that the virus was not deadly for the majority of Canadians, except for older people with comorbidities.
And I said, you know, we have a charter of rights, and I must, as a political leader, before a political election, to be able to use my constitutional rights, the right to freely speak, the right to peaceful assembly, and being able to speak with the Canadians.
And, you know, you didn't do that.
But for me, the worst of all that, I was the only one.
We were 15 in a meeting in a park.
I was the only one who received a ticket.
I was the only one who was arrested and coughed and put in jail.
And I said it was political repression.
And I'm saying that because like you just said at the beginning, Ezra, before coming to Manitoba, the premier of that province said, if Maxim Bernier is coming to this province and wants to have meeting outside, I can tell you his pockets will be empty.
So remember, he said something like that in a press conference.
Yeah, let's play a clip of that.
It was just absolutely shocking.
That statement alone.
should have caused this prosecution to drop because whether or not he meant it, even if he was just talking tough, being a big man, bragging, he created the perception that the police and the prosecution do the bidding of an elected politician.
Let's play that clip here.
The moment he said that, it's like he poisoned the prosecution and anything that came from it would have been fruit of a poisoned tree.
Let's just show that clip for a second.
Premier, Maxim Bernier is supposed to be touring the province and holding events Friday through Sunday this week.
How is the province going to handle these numerous gatherings that are going to be set up along his tour?
Well, he's violating the public health orders.
He's going to be light in the pocketbook.
And I'd suggest that he not violate the public health orders.
But of course, I'm not going to be directly involved in the enforcement, nor should I be.
That was a disgrace.
Brian Palliser was one of the most abusive premiers.
Decision and Appeal00:04:46
He was so punitive.
And that made it extra bad.
I mean, you could say, well, it was a police decision.
No, it was not.
The premier said, I'm going to do it.
And he did it.
And everyone just said, okay, I guess that's how it is now.
And Andrew, I can tell you that was a political repression.
Because when I was arrested and put in jail, if you were able to see the video, these RCMP officials didn't have their full official costume, uniform, sorry, official uniform.
And when we arrived at the detachment, so the guy just asked, can you tell me where are the washrooms?
So that person, that officer, was not coming from that detachment.
He was coming from Winnipeg and he had an order to arrest me.
And that's what he did.
So, and I was 12 hours in a jail.
But what I said to the judge, I said, you want me to pay a fines?
I believe that I did pay for what I did.
I was 12 hours in a jail.
And now you want to add to that fines.
And, you know, that's your discretion.
But if you're doing that, I want to have the opportunity to give that money to a shelter for women here in Winnipeg.
And she said, no, you must give 2,000 bucks to the state, the same state that violated my rights.
That's very frustrating.
You know, I'm familiar with stories like this, not obviously a high-profile political leader, but as you know, the Democracy Fund, which is a civil liberties charity created two years ago, has fought literally 2,500 cases.
And they all sound as excruciatingly frustrating and Kafka-esque as what you've just described.
Did you ever get an explanation for why they took you to jail?
It was not a criminal.
You broke no criminal law.
The worst that could happen to you if you were convicted of this offense is what did happen to you.
You pay a fine.
It's really, in a way, like an expensive traffic ticket.
Like it was not a crime.
You were not charged.
I don't, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong.
You were charged with a provincial offense, which is like a, it's like speeding.
And so why would they put you in jail if even being convicted of it could not possibly have amounted to a jail term?
Did they ever explain why you were jailed?
No, they did not.
But I told the judge at that hearing that, you know, I was traveling across the country that summer to build the party, to be ready for the next election, to find candidates.
And I did rallies, you know, in Alberta, in Ontario, in Quebec.
And I can tell you that I had some tickets in Saskatchewan and Ontario, but I didn't go to jail.
I received the tickets, like you said, and, you know, I just have to pay it.
But now that was not enough for them.
That's a proof that the leader of that province, the premier at that time, didn't want me to do rallies and didn't want to hear the other side of the story.
And I was supposed to have a big rally in Winnipeg the day after, but I was not able because I was in jail.
So it's a shame what happened.
But also, Ezra, I must tell you, some people are telling me, yeah, Maxim, okay, you have to pay that fines.
But, you know, if you're a real freedom fighter, why you didn't appeal that decision?
And that's a good question.
And I want to make it clear.
I didn't appeal the decision.
First, to save some time from the court and money for taxpayers.
But second, there is a case, like my case, you know, against a citizen here in Manitoba who did have a rally outside during the COVID hysteria.
And that case will be before the Appeal Court of Manitoba this year.
So we will have a decision about that.
If what the government did to me and other people here in Manitoba will have a decision from the appeal court if that was legal or constitutional.
You know, I'm not optimistic.
The General Election Campaign Begins00:13:32
Almost every single constitutional challenge of everything done in the lockdowns has failed.
And for me, it was a great disillusioning.
I went to law school, you know, 25 years ago, and we were taught that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was not only a powerful and almost a holy document, but it was so essentially part of our identity as Canadians and certainly as lawyers.
And in the greatest civil liberties bonfire in a generation, it literally did nothing for us.
And in fact, to this day, the Supreme Court has not bothered itself to weigh in on anything regarding the lockdowns.
I find it atrocious.
Well, listen, I appreciate you telling us those stories, but I know that if you have your way, you will be redeemed in that same province that jailed you so vindictively.
And I mentioned Brian Pallister, that premier we just showed.
He was the progressive conservative MP about 20 years ago for the riding, Portage Lisgar, that is now in a by-election.
There are four federal by-elections happening, if I'm not mistaken, on June 19th.
And one of them was held by Candace Bergen, formerly known as Candace Heppner.
And I was just looking at the stats.
She used to win that thing with 75% of the vote.
It's a very, I spoke at a Candace Bergen fundraiser a decade or two ago.
It was one of the most right-wing places I ever been.
And then in the last election, this is what's so fascinating, and then I'll button up and listen to your reaction.
I just looked at the stats.
In the last election, the People's Party of Canada received 22% of the vote of unlimited.
That's got to be, if not the highest, one of the highest numbers in the whole country.
And every single one of those votes came off the conservative vote.
Candace Bergen went from about 75% down about 50%.
And all the other votes went to the PPC.
So my theory is if that's one of the strongest PPC ridings in the country, if last time against a long-standing member of parliament, he got 22%, with Candace Bergen gone and the leader of the party running, I have to say, although I still think it would be a long shot and a shock to the system, I have to say I think it's in the realm of the possible,
especially by-elections, which are prone to protest votes.
People who are motivated go out more than people who are fine with things.
I think you've actually got a chance.
I believe so, Andrew, but I will have to work very hard.
And that's why, you know, I came in the writing a couple of weeks before the announcement.
I was in that riding a couple of times since the general election.
As you said, we had our biggest rally in that riding during the last election.
We had 3,000 people outside.
Our candidate did very well.
Actually, I must admit, did better than myself, the leader of the party.
I had 21% in votes and he had 22%.
And it is a rural riding like my former riding in Bose.
And there's also a francophone community here.
And you're right to say that's maybe the most conservative riding in the country.
So, and that's why I believe that I have a chance and I may be able to win that election.
Because, you know, I'm the only candidate who will speak for real conservative values.
I'm doing that all the time.
And here in that riding, we will promote family values like we did at the last election.
And like you said, it is not a general election.
It is a by-election.
And as you may know, Ezra, the Conservative Party of Canada, likes to say during general election, oh, if you like the policies of the People's Party, and if you like Maxim Bernier, yeah, that's okay.
But, you know, we need to get rid of Justin Trudeau.
I don't want you to spit the vote.
But there's no such thing as spitting the vote during a by-election because we won't change the government.
The Trudeau government will be there after the election.
And during a general election, I'm saying, you know, I'm not spitting any vote.
I'm just a real conservative.
But Polyev is spitting the liberal votes.
That's his job.
And that's what he wants to do to be in power.
But that being said, I will speak about family values.
I will have fun in the riding.
We have a strong team also.
So we will do pretty well.
And my team on the ground, they're very happy.
And they're saying, you know, Maxime, you will come here because you are speaking like us, maybe with a French accent.
But I like the people here.
We share the same values.
And I'm having fun running for them.
And I want to be their representative.
I'll do everything.
And we'll see what will happen.
You know, by the way, it's a very multilingual riding.
I think about a third of people there speak German at home.
Oh, yeah.
You know, there's that Mennonite tradition of German farmers, very conservative people.
I like it there.
I haven't been there in a few years, but it is definitely one of the most conservative ridings in the country.
Let me ask you this.
I know that the Conservative Party of Canada has nominated a candidate.
And have there been any all-candidates debates?
Have you attended any of those?
Have you been invited to any of those?
What is it like when you interact with the Conservative and the other parties?
But I really think this is going to be a two-way battle.
I don't think the Liberals have a chance there.
I don't think they ever did.
I don't think, I mean, listen, last election it was Conservatives 50, approximately 50, PPC, approximately 22.
I think that it's really a two-horse race there in this by-election.
What has been the interactions that you've had on this campaign so far?
Has there been anything formal like a debate?
Yeah, I must say that I didn't have any interaction with my conservative opponent.
I believe it will come because you're right.
We called every Chamber of Commerce, every local media, and we said to them, we want to have debates.
We want to have debates, you know, every day.
I'm ready to that.
I'm ready for that.
Sorry.
And I'm pretty sure that we'll have a couple of debates.
But I had the opportunity to meet people here in this writing, farmers and also entrepreneurs.
It's going well.
It's going well.
People understand that as the leader of a party, it is my job and my responsibility to be elected as soon as possible.
Look what Jack Mead did.
He's a guy from Toronto, and he went up to the West Coast in Vancouver to be elected.
I'm a guy from Montreal, originally from Bose.
When I did run in Bose, before that, I was living in Montreal and I said to people in Bose, I will live in Bose.
I will be with you if I'm winning.
And that's what I did.
Now I'm living in Montreal and I'm ready to be here in Manitoba after the next election.
So it's going well.
And that's only the beginning of the campaign.
So I hope that I will have the opportunity to be with you before the end of the campaign.
And I will be able to tell you a little bit more about my interaction with people here.
But we had a good rallies when I started the campaign.
We had a lot of people there.
So it's fun.
And people understand that they have an opportunity to make history because you may know that Ezra, but the first elected Reform Party member was Debras in by-election in 1989.
And after that, at the next general election, they had 51 Reform candidates elected.
And that's the same thing.
It's a by-election.
So I can be in the House and start that common sense revolution, populist revolution in the House June 19.
And I'll be ready for that.
Yeah, very interesting.
Now, the by-election has not been afoot for very long, or at least I don't think it's been.
So maybe people are just sort of waking up to it.
How is the local media coverage been?
Have you been covered by local reporters, local media?
And if so, how has their treatment of your candidacy been?
Yeah, I thank you for asking because it's great to be with you, Ezra, and to speak to the national media.
But the most important is the local media.
And you have some reach here in the writing, I'm pretty sure.
But yeah, I did a press conference and I can tell you that I had a very good, honest, honest coverage, and I like it.
And so they told me, you know, let me know what you're doing.
We will cover you and we will cover your opponent.
So that's good.
I'm very happy with that.
And up to now, that's a fair coverage.
And I'm very happy they're doing their job.
I believe better than the mainstream journalists, leftist journalists who are not so kind to cover a leader of a party in a by-election.
But actually, they did cover other leaders during the elections.
And I hope that the mainstream media will follow our campaign a little bit.
Yeah.
Well, I think you'd probably do better if the Ottawa media completely ignored you and you just dealt with local reporters.
I think local reporters are not infected by the mind virus of hating anyone who's contrarian, hating anyone who's outside the club.
I think one of the main problems of the Ottawa media is not just that it's left of center, but that it is such a click, such a closed shop.
And they probably look down their nose at anything in Manitoba, let alone a small town, rural riding.
Like they would look down their nose at Winnipeg, and they would laugh and scoff at Portage Lisgar.
So I think, frankly, you don't want Ottawa media.
They'll just, you know, do the usual number on you.
I think talking to local journalists will be much more profitable.
Have there been any polls so far?
Is it still too early?
Because that would be fascinating.
I bet the conservatives are polling there.
Has anything been shown publicly yet?
No.
First, you must know that we at the People's Party, we don't do any pollings and any focus group.
First, we don't want to spend money for that.
The money that we have, we are spending the money during a campaign to promote the party because, like you said, we don't have a fair coverage.
We didn't have a fair coverage at the last general election.
So we are putting money aside to have that money during the general election.
And it's early because the election was called last Sunday.
So we are in the beginning of that campaign.
But I believe that we'll have some polling.
But for me, I will tell you something that every politician is telling you.
The real poll is the day of the election.
And so we will work very hard to be sure that we have a good score the day of the election.
Yeah.
Well, listen, it's very interesting.
And we'll certainly keep our eye on it.
And I think we might send someone to Portage Lisgar on election night.
We don't have anyone based in Manitoba, but we love to cover the prairies.
I mean, we're prairie at heart.
I'm from Calgary originally.
I think it's interesting.
And by the way, we have in the past, on a number of occasions, made invitations to interview the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, Pierre Polyev.
He has declined our invitation so far.
And we certainly would also interview, because we're interested in this race, the local Conservative candidate.
And in fact, I will make an invitation to him after this video airs.
And I think he should come aboard.
He will get a fair interview from me, and I will ask him very similar questions to what I've asked you.
And we'll see if he's brave enough to do that or if he's been instructed not to.
Maxime Bernier, as always, a pleasure to catch up with you.
And good luck on the campaign trail.
And we look forward to talking to you again.
Thank you, Ezra.
So yes, you must follow us.
And I appreciate your fair coverage.
Let's stay in touch.
And we will, I'm pretty sure that I will speak with you maybe at the day of the election.
And I hope it would be a great news for Canadians.
We'll see.
So have a nice day and let's stay in touch.
Will do.
Thank you very much.
There you have it.
Maxime Bernier, leader of the People's Party of Canada, candidate in the June 19th by-election in Portage Lisgar.
And as I mentioned, a very strong showing for the People's Party in the last election.
Over 20%, I think if there's an area for a breakthrough, statistically speaking, this could be it.