Bryson Gray, a conservative Christian and anti-mandate activist with Billboard hits like Let’s Go Brandon banned from Spotify, dismisses BLM violence as unjustified while blaming welfare and LGBT movements for hindering Black progress—citing Tulsa’s destruction and population decline. Shivona Newsom counters with redlining, wealth gaps, and historical oppression, arguing Black liberation must include all identities, like Baynard Rustin’s legacy. Both agree on skepticism of government aid but clash over solutions: Gray pushes self-sufficiency, Newsom urges direct activism, calling out neo-Nazi rhetoric and party failures. The debate underscores deep divides in how to address systemic racism and community empowerment. [Automatically generated summary]
Savannah Newsom is a political activist and co-founder of BLM Greater New York, notably spearheading protests against the Brooklyn Nets for their treatment of Kyrie Irving.
He didn't get vaccinated, by the way, and leading the battle in New York against vaccine mandates.
Bryson Gray is a number one Billboard charting artist with hit songs like Let's Go Brandon and Controlled, shooting to the top of iTunes and Amazon music charts.
He's also had his songs banned for medical misinformation multiple times and is the artist best noted as having a song removed from Spotify.
Thanks, you guys.
How are you doing?
Thanks for joining me.
Hi, Andrew.
Thanks for having us.
Thanks for having me, bro.
You already know.
I'm excited for this, you guys.
Say whatever you want.
We're not going to censor this.
We're not going to cut you guys off.
It's going to be simple.
I'll ask a question to one of you, give your answer, and the other one will get a chance to make a rebuttal to the question.
If you disagree, jump in whenever you'd like, but let's try our best to not talk over each other.
If you agree on something, maybe that's a good thing.
I don't know if that's going to happen.
And at the end, we'll give you both a chance to give a closing statement on culture, politics, the state of America, basically whatever you'd like.
So, Siobhana, I want to start with you and talk about the summer of 2020.
It saw both peaceful protests and rioting, I think most people would say, under the BLM banner, not saying it was you, but was the property damage and violence of these protests justified, in your opinion?
It's absolutely the American way.
I think that people forget that black people are American.
The Boston Tea Party, it wasn't a party.
Every single rights that Americans have gained from the foundation of this country has been rooted in violence.
So it led to great legislative change and it's brought the conversation to the table.
We can't deny and ignore racism.
Bryson, how do you feel about that?
Do you think it was a justified thing?
First thing first, I noticed she didn't even answer a question about if it was justified or not.
She claimed it to be the American way.
No, it's not justified to kill people, to riot, and not saying all of it was this going on, but people that get mad at the January 6th riots don't understand that these Black Lives Matter riots.
We saw people on video dying, being beat to death for no reason.
The difference is these people that they are killing are literally innocent, just protecting their jobs.
Matter of fact, a lot of these jobs, a lot of these companies have Black Lives Matter signs to support Black Lives Matter on their companies, and they still got looted.
They still got attacked.
They still got killed.
None of that is justifiable.
I don't care what the reasoning is.
I think that you made the point that you are paid to make.
You're political wheeling, just like people like Candace Owens.
It absolutely is the American way.
What hasn't been gotten by bloodshed in this country?
Because it's black people.
We're supposed to sing and dance.
You have to be kidding me.
If you want to go off the Constitution, off the Bible, everything has been achieved by war.
Black people were beaten, killed, and lived in oppression in this country.
And we're supposed to sit back and take it.
Who's coming to save us?
It's not the Democratic Party, and it's sure not the Republican Party, who a lot of black folks are capitalizing off, chucking and jibing for.
I'm willing to bet you that between me and you, only one of us is getting paid to say anything, and everybody knows it isn't me.
Then the second thing you said is we've been oppressed and beat and things like that in this country.
Not you, though.
I'm almost willing to bet my entire bank account that you have not been beaten or anything or oppressed in really any way, shape, or form.
Matter of fact, September 2020, I'm still suffering back pains from the NYPD, who you guys go around and quote law and order from.
I was beaten by four officers unarmed.
That's what happens.
And aren't you a man from the South?
I just came back from there for fighting for justice for Jason Walker, unarmed black man who was murdered by an off-duty cop.
And you're used to seeing Confederate flags.
So before you traded in being a liberal for this paid conservative, like it's really clown-like to show up places with large hats to garner attention.
You're doing it for money.
Say that.
Tell people why you shuck and jive.
And then you say you're a conservative Christian.
What is it for a man to profit the whole world and to lose his soul?
Please explain that to me.
Can you answer that?
So once again, I'm assuming it's because you're a woman.
I understand you're emotional.
But what I'm starting to see is I'm never emotional.
I ran three companies.
I'm not sitting from my bedroom shucking and jibing for the white man.
Google me.
As I said, as you interrupted me, I understand that you are emotional.
So you're going to keep attacking if you keep saying that because that's patriarchy.
That's what I'm here to smash.
You will not call me emotional.
I've owned too many companies and I am too smart of a businessman.
But please keep going if you actually have a point.
Yeah, as you brag about yourself, if I could continue this time, I understand this.
So I understand that you don't have any real arguments.
You're trying to attack my character as per se, but everybody that knows me knows I'm the person to get paid at least.
That's why I'm actually censored.
That's why I actually can't do certain things.
If I was doing this for money, then obviously I would be really shucking and jiving, as you would say.
But what's really shucking.
Yeah, you sold out your own people and you worship Donald Trump who dog whistles to the proud boy and you're not making a profit.
Shout out to the PBs.
You need to call it.
Shout out to the PBs.
You need to call.
You need to call Kiabis Owen because you failing.
So what are you doing it for?
Attention?
If it's not money, because I can't conceive why someone who claims to have been a liberal, which I am not, because I'm a student of Malcolm X.
I know how both the Democrats and Republicans betray my people.
What's led you to this point?
Make me understand because right now it seems like you're just tap dancing for attention and not profit.
I don't get Bryson.
Sorry, Shivana.
Bryson, you want to answer that?
And then Shivana, you can have one more rebuttal to that.
And then we'll get to the next question, okay?
Oh, she had a few rebuttals, but it's okay.
I'm used to this.
So the issue here is nobody sold out anybody.
What you're saying doesn't make any sense.
You're trying to pivot because you can't really logically explain any of your positions.
So when I ask you, logically explain all of my positions.
If you look at the seven pieces of legislation I've gotten passed in the last year, if you go to blackopportunities.com, it will explain that.
You have no justification as to why you're making a mockery of yourself as a strong black man for nothing.
So don't discredit my work.
Don't discredit the work of the ancestors who came before me because there's always going to be house Negroes.
There's always going to be cools.
But I thought when I googled you and I seen you on Billboards, I thought you were at least making a profit.
What are you excited about?
A tweet from Donald Trump?
The tweet that I received from Donald Trump took me into hiding, makes me ride around in an armored car in a bulletproof vest because he sent the people who you entertain after me.
This is why I train.
This is why I do MMA.
And I'm actually very much 2A all the way.
So I don't get what point you're coming from at position.
Well, yeah.
Unfortunately, you're proving my point.
And obviously, you don't know who you're talking to.
The FBI came to my parents' house to try to attack me.
Didn't even know where I live, by the way.
Nancy Pelosi picked me on her government hit list.
I don't think you did a good enough research on me, which is why you're trying to come across as attacking me.
But I don't think you just trying to understand.
Tell me why you made this shit.
Hey, Andrew, Andrew, Andrew, move to the next question because she's going to keep repeating the same thing and brag about herself.
I own seven companies.
I'm a strong black woman.
You know me.
Actually, I didn't say a strong black woman because that's what you do to tear away from my argument.
You have to say that I'm strong.
You haven't had an argument.
You have to point out the fact that you have tons of arguments.
And maybe you're not able to comprehend them.
I don't get it.
You sing and dance for a living.
So why would I expect you to understand?
Women are so funny.
I need somebody with a law degree or something.
Oh, women are so funny.
You gotta get to the next question.
Okay, thank you.
My next question for Bryce, we'll start with: Are Black Americans at an inherent disadvantage in America compared to other races?
Yes or no?
Go ahead.
No, and I'm explaining this very simply.
Why no?
You have people that come over here with darker skin tones than us from Nigeria.
And you see the numbers they're doing.
It's better.
They even almost have a higher median household income than white people in this country.
So they come over here and have an easy way of success.
And they come here and actually grind.
If you know any Nigerian people in America or know a lot of the families, they come here and grind.
They don't play no game.
They try to start businesses.
They work their butts off.
They invest in themselves.
The crime rate, the crime rate amongst Nigerians is lower.
Everything is the homelessness rates is lower.
The drug abuse rates is lower.
The game making rates is lower amongst Nigerians in this country.
So if Nigerians can do it, I don't see how we can't do it.
Also, the reason why that doesn't make sense is once upon a time, our economic success was surpassing white people in this country.
That was before even Jim Crow.
So if you're going to, and of course, he's probably going to bring up, oh, Black Wall Street, they're bad nature.
I don't know.
So I don't want to assume, but that's what a lot of people usually bring up.
That can't really be a good excuse because if we already had a point in this country where we were doing well, we wasn't relying on the government.
We had economic success.
Then how can you say it's inherent?
Pravana, are black people in America, Black American-born citizens at a disadvantage compared to other races?
I see that Bryson chose to talk about Nigerians or any other immigrants, my people being a foundational Black American.
We were imported here as a commodity, as slaves, and as workers.
And if we look at any statistics for black people in America, descendants of slaves, we see a negative wealth gap.
We see a disparity in healthcare.
Statistics and data actually proves that it's much harder to be a black person in this country.
If you talk about redlining, since he wanted to talk about immigrants coming to this country, the government made it so that people coming to this country who were immigrants could actually get a house, but they couldn't carry on that wealth.
The way that we achieve wealth in America is generational wealth.
As we see in a lot of people under the white banner, immigrants who came to this country who actually didn't build America, what we see with them is they got life insurance policies and they were able to pass that along.
Our school system is failing.
And I love that people love to talk about black on black crime or crime statistics.
But as you see anywhere that there is a high rate of unemployment, there's a high rate of murder.
And statistically, black people have higher unemployment rates.
And I love the fact that you brought up Tulsa actually did a 3,000 person armed march there to commemorate the 100-year anniversary.
And you see anywhere that Black people were thriving, there have been roadblocks and obstacles put in the way that no other race has had to experience.
That's why the Black experience is so unique to this country.
That's why we are disproportionately taking advantage of.
And that's why systemic oppression and racism do exist.
These are all facts.
This isn't my emotional female opinion.
I'm not on my menstrual cycle.
This is an easy Google search.
So unfortunately, she actually already just conceded to the point, if you replay what she said, that black people were thriving in this country.
And then obviously she brought up what happened.
And white America destroyed it with the crack at the epidemic.
They destroyed it with welfare, where they helped the farmers, but black families couldn't stay together.
Black men, you know, this information.
So as I. All that I'm saying is truly a fact.
So it's nothing to argue about.
Tell me the wealth gap.
Tell me how much black people have in this country.
Tell me about, since you wanted to talk about being a black woman, why is it that for the same education and the same work experience, I only get paid 63 cents on the dollar, but I have every single opportunity here in this country.
Let me try to finish this time as I let you finish every time.
So, as I said, she already conceded to the point that black people were thriving.
Then, obviously, she brought up the Tulsa situation, which is one situation.
Then she just brought a welfare, which I found interesting.
But the thing about welfare is people were lined up for it.
The government promoted it to Black folk, and Black folk ate it on up.
And that's the issue.
We have a lower percentage in this country.
So, when we start lining up for things like that, it obviously is going to affect us in a negative way.
But she acknowledged that we were thriving in this country.
We were thriving.
Exactly.
We agree on that.
I agree with you.
We were absolutely worth thriving.
And there were systems put into place to take away our wealth.
We have land in this country.
Now, Black people own nothing.
It wasn't like we collectively got up and decided to be lazy because remember, we were the best and hardest workers when we worked for free and shut up and sang about it.
Like, come on, the Democratic Party has destroyed Black folks.
I don't believe in welfare.
I don't believe in the crutch.
I am not your liberal or your progressive.
I believe in black empowerment.
That's why I created other organizations, Black Opportunity, which is about taking care of ourselves.
No one is coming to save us.
Andrew can tell you this because I've been on here.
I don't, I'm not a puppet for the DNC.
It doesn't happen.
I pull out both when they're putting my Black people's lives and liberty in jeopardy.
Well, you already told me you aren't a liberal, so I never brought up you being a liberal.
The only point about the welfare situation is because it's not like welfare was forced on us, it was wrapped up in a nice little bowl, and the government pushed hard for it the same way they're doing these vaccines.
I'm sure me and you can agree on that.
And unfortunately, a lot of people took the bait when they took the bait.
That's what led to the destruction of the black community.
You know, there were times a black community, my grandmother was a black panther.
There was the black panthers used to go to even poor white neighborhoods and feed them.
The Black Panthers, even though a lot of them were communists, but just on a social level, they were pro-Black.
They were trying to help.
This is where Wick came from.
We agree on this.
Yeah, exactly.
The government system came.
And this is what we model our organization after.
But they have to create and paint us as these crazy, angry people burning down buildings.
But say during the deep freeze in Texas that happened early last year, it was poor white folk living next to poor Black folk.
As a Christian, I can't say, hey, you're white and not get a plate.
Black folk and black people, we just aren't that type.
So I'm happy that we can find things we get to agree on and some things we're going to go to blows over.
But hell yeah, this government and this system has been created to oppress black people.
So you aren't actually conceding to the point of the disadvantage of the black person in America.
Countries and Borders00:13:40
No.
So we agree on what's happening, but we don't agree on the issue.
And what I mean by that is the issue is what the government is doing is pushing at the people.
And by the way, there's more white people on welfare, of course, by individual number, but we have a lower percentage.
But my face and a black woman's face is opposed to welfare.
Yes.
Of course.
Correct.
Yeah.
So what I'm saying, though, is that we took the bait.
That's the part.
That's the part I have an issue with is that we took the bait because a lot of the pro-black leaders of that time were speaking against the welfare system.
So it's not like we didn't have people fighting against it, telling you not to do this.
Like now, there's always going to be some crazy folks standing up who get shadow banned, who get censored, who get blocked, all these things who get harassed by for telling the truth.
This is the price you pay for being a truth seeker.
But when you think about it, if people are going to say, oh, I'm pushing segregation, right?
I want to go back to the old way.
Even Martin Luther King, before he died, said that we were running into a burning house.
It's like, how has it helped us wanting to be with white people instead of concentrating on our wealth?
It said when we begged to go sit at our counters, we forgot about Papa Joe, who had been feeding us, who was like us in our own community.
I think the only way the black people are going to do it is if we come together collectively, if we pool our resources and we stop waiting on someone to save us, whether it's the PPP money, the welfare system, you'll never hear a black revolutionary preaching for any of those things.
Correct.
You never heard Marcus Garvey doing it.
You never heard Malcolm X doing it.
But I do have one more question, though, Andrew, before you start.
Do you think that Black people deserve some of the blame for taking the baits?
Because the reason we're in this position, because even back then, they used to go into the house to make sure there was no man in there for you to continue to receive the benefits from the government.
Of course, you know that.
So my question is, do you think we deserve any of the blame for taking the bait?
A starving man, unfortunately, is going to take bread.
I'm sure people reached out to you as they've reached out to me regarding the vaccine.
And I have people who feel they were betrayed by God.
They betrayed God.
They betrayed these things because they went ahead and got the vaccine because that was the way they fed our family.
I don't blame our people.
If you needed to eat and welfare and food stamps was the only way that you're starving babies to eat, I'm not going to hold that against you if that was the bait being dangling.
Do I blame us for not waking up?
Do I blame more people for not joining this idea and taking to the streets, hiring people, electing people who believe in them, voting more so than down the line, which has gotten us nothing in the past five or so decades?
I don't blame us.
It makes me angry.
It makes me very frustrated.
But if I was starving and I had to feed my proverbial children, I would.
Okay, so I guess that's just what we're going to have to agree to disagree there.
All right.
I'll jump in.
But you can't understand why they chose to do it, though, right?
I don't think they, like, you can understand if you couldn't feed your children, why you would take some sort of aid.
Now, the question is, if you needed, now the problem is where I do put the blame on us is welfare is not generational, okay?
Like if you lost your job, things were bad for a year or two, so be it.
Economic crisis come.
Yeah, you're supposed to take that and then move on to the next level.
We should not be inheriting housing project apartments or your grandma's on aid and you're on aid.
I absolutely do not agree with that.
That's why we are creating STEM programs and programs to help single mothers and people, informally incarcerated people, so we can break the cycle.
But that comes with black people helping ourselves.
So, so, so the reason I don't understand why they took the bait is because during the time when full scale, I'm gonna call it full-scale welfare for now, because we know smaller forms of welfare was presented earlier.
But when full-scale welfare was presented, we had more of a sense of community in a black community.
So, I feel like people would have helped each other more back then.
Also, economically, we were that bad out to the point where we had to take it.
I think the way they, during those times, the way they wrapped it in a nice bowl, the package they sold it to us was just so enticing that we took the bait.
So, I understand why.
People haven't changed.
If you look at the media and the tools of the media, it'll have you loving the oppressor and hating the oppressed.
Look at the way that everything is being packaged from the vaccines to tax credits to inflation to every single thing.
So, I don't want to say we're more woke than our ancestors because it was people screaming just like you and me.
But imagine if that's what you're being fed.
Like, most people don't even know why they're voting or who they're voting for, what they stand for.
So, I don't really blame people for being ignorant, but it's our job to try to wake them up.
Yes, even okay, I gotta jump in.
We're agreeing too much.
That's the problem.
Heard of me.
I said we're agreeing too much.
Okay, yeah, I can't let it go on.
No, I just want to move on to different topics.
We can't have you guys debating.
This is not what was supposed to happen.
Um, Shravana, this one's going to be directed at you.
We're seeing a lot from the Democratic government, the Joe Biden administration right now, talk about, you know, the Russian and the Ukrainian border.
We have to have sovereignty on the Ukrainian border.
It's confusing a lot of people compared to how the American-Mexico border is treated.
The question is, do you think Black communities are hurt by illegal immigration more so than other communities?
Or at all, maybe?
No, I'm not going to say that because people who come here and whatever reasons they migrated to America for, we pointed out the Nigerian population coming here to work hard.
I think there's enough resources in America for people who are seeking to work.
That's why I fight so hard to break down the racist barriers that keep us from owning property, that keep us from having financial stability.
I do not blame them.
Do I think it's hypocritical of the American government to go around spreading democracy and the way that it treats Black people, the way that the voting rights bill did not pass?
I think it's hypocritical, but we're doing with the inflation rate and everything that's happening.
This war, I know I'm going to be super censored now.
It's a distraction.
We have no business being over there, but we know that war is profitable and Americans tend to, well, some Americans, usually the 1%, tend to thrive when blood is on the street.
It's above my pay grade, my clearance to know why we are inserting ourselves into that.
But we have real big problems here in America.
Homelessness is a crisis.
The eviction memoratorium is ending in places.
We had children in cages.
I don't know if they still are.
I won't sit here and lie for a bleeding heart type of a thing, but America needs to take care of home first.
I'm not sure the YouTube centers have caught up to the Ukraine-Russian debate yet.
They'll probably get there soon.
But, Bryson, the question to you is: does illegal immigration hurt Black communities?
Yeah, and it's not just Black communities.
It's low-income communities, period, because those are the jobs they're going to take.
I mean, it's actually quite simple.
They're going to come here.
They're going to work.
They're usually going to work at the same job at the warehouses.
I know I used to work in warehouses, and you see a lot, a lot, a lot of people who couldn't speak English in them.
And I worked at three separate ones, separate ones.
These are the same things.
Matter of fact, I worked at a fiberglass plant called PPG, and there's a lot of them in there too.
Those are the jobs they're going to get.
They come over here, they're illegal immigrants.
It's not like they're coming over here already rich, but those are the jobs they're going to get.
And it's not just Black people, it's poor white people, poor legal immigrants that came here.
And it's just poor people, period.
But yes, unfortunately, a large percentage of Black people will be affected by that.
So I don't even think there's any numbers to combat that.
Shirovana, you want to jump in on that at all?
I just choose not to agree.
I think that we have enough education, we have enough healthcare, we have enough resources to put people on a path.
When we think about second-generation immigrants, I think that we should remember Black people when we talk about the things that immigrants do get in this country.
When we talk about the advances that non-white people have, those came off the struggles and the backs of Black people who do what I do, who fight for freedom, who fight for legislation, and who fight for liberation.
Brayson, is that the same as illegal immigration, though?
What do you mean?
I think Siobhana is talking about, you know, legal immigrants, if I'm not mistaken, Srivana.
Yeah.
I don't really, I don't think anyone's illegal.
I think that America, since we're going to get into it and talk about it, America is racist as hell when it comes to its immigration policies.
When you look at when Donald Trump banned nine nations, about four or five of them were black.
America has a huge problem when black and brown people come here, but you never see poor European neighborhoods with people with white skin getting raided.
I would love if America had equality across the board for their immigration policy, but we don't see that.
We see people who are dark migrants treated horribly by this country.
Yeah, so yeah, I disagree.
People are based on the laws, just like many other countries have laws, just like Mexico has laws.
If you try to go to Mexico illegally, you can go to jail for three years.
Just people, you have to protect your borders.
Most countries understand that across the globe is common sense, really.
So obviously.
The issue is because I'm bad at this.
You know, I'm gonna chop in and cut you off.
We'll just pin you back, right?
Um, America was founded, right?
This country was supposed to be founded off of people coming through Ellis Island, fleeing religious persecution, uh, looking for new resources, all these things.
But now that's no longer the policy.
Like, since when that's how all these people were currently in power, these white folks, because they're they're not indigenous and they were not bought here as slaves, so they their families came over here seeking a better opportunity.
But now we're going to deny other people because you know what?
Hey, we came over here, we settled first, things are going well for us.
We don't want y'all to mess up the economy.
It's kind of contradicting.
So, I like how you brought the religious persecution because even a lot of conservatives don't realize that the American Revolution was in large part a religious war.
A lot of people think it was only about taxes, which is just simply ignorance.
So, I'm glad you mentioned that, but nonetheless, countries have borders, countries have to protect their borders across the globe.
This is not just an American thing.
So, I don't know how you can view it as racist if it's happening in countries of color.
I mean, you know, no, no, I call racism racism.
Like, anywhere there's injustice against black people, I'm speaking out.
Right now, I can't go to about four different African countries for speaking out against their dictators.
I call bullshit or BS wherever it's happening.
But we see that America's, look at when, what's the newest strand?
What do we have?
Strand number 37 of the COVID variant.
The same people who were screaming at Donald Trump, and let's be twisted and clear, I am no fan of Donald Trump, who were screaming at him for saying the China virus really wanted to start calling it the African, South African street.
That's the racism I'm talking about in America.
That's the anti-blackness.
And we see it whether people are foundationally Black American or if they're coming over as migrants.
Well, but here's the thing.
So, I guess maybe you just disagree how countries are supposed to be ran.
So, I just want to talk about how countries are.
Of course, I'm a disruptor.
I want to say that it works for all the citizens.
Cool.
So, but let me focus on how countries are ran though.
Most countries have borders because they understand that they have, and I agree that you have to protect your borders, you have to protect your country.
So, in this sense, multiple, you it's it's illegal to go to, I would say, the majority of countries in the world, and there's punishment for being there illegally.
Now, in the United States of America, you come over here illegally for some reason.
In a, in too many cases, not only do you not get punished, but you get benefits, you get benefits that even black people get.
We're here, we was born and raised here.
So, I, so, and then not only that, they let you get here, you get your cars, and then you can actually get a job while being here illegal.
Meanwhile, if some, if a black person gets caught trespassing or anybody, a regular American get caught trespassing or something, you can end up in prison.
So, it's kind of interesting how that works.
I think I want to say about political asylum because you're talking about the legality of it.
If you make your way anyway onto this country's soil, you're supposed to be able to cry political asylums.
You're supposed to be able to say that as a brown to say, and there's a law and there's a process put into place by that.
And we look at the countries where people are fleeing from as much as I am, because I love America.
I'm a foundational Black American.
My family built this country and built the White House.
But if people were fleeing to America because they're leaving crime-ridden places, the cartel is on their tail, and they get here and they say political asylum, like I'm a political prisoner, something to that effect, whatever they actually need to say.
That's in the law.
How do we folks?
How do we go back on that?
Uh, because that's not why the majority of illegal immigrants come over here.
They claim themselves as opportunity.
Matter of fact, in a few countries, it's actually promoted that you can just come over here.
They actually promote it.
You can just, you can just go to America.
Hey, I mean, screw this place.
So, I don't, I don't.
I don't, they probably want to send me back to Africa.
So, that's a thing.
It's like, hey, go back to Africa.
Oh, I've been told that.
Oh, I've seen that.
Trust me.
I'll screenshot you some things.
No, listen, listen, listen.
I have conversations with actually, I have conversations with actual neo-Nazis and actual white supremacists.
So I know they will tell you that.
Well, I have conversations with anybody because the only way to get past something is to understand the other person.
So they will tell you that.
I'm not going to lie.
There are some white supremacists that are telling you to go back to Africa.
Black Liberation and Family Units00:05:15
The only issue is they're usually not conservative.
They're usually like socialists, but you know.
One more question, and then I want to talk to you both with a final question each.
So this one will be towards Bryson first.
Bryson, does the LGBT movement help or hinder progress of Black Americans or groups like BLM?
I mean, it hinders progress for humanity.
I mean, especially with Black folk, because once again, we're only 13% of the population.
We don't have the same luxury as other people have.
The Hispanic population is growing.
The white population is decreasing by a bit, but they're still the only woman majority in this country.
Black folk population is stagnant.
We don't have time to be promoting things that obviously goes against the black family unit.
And the LGBT screw politics, screw anything, just inherently by nature, it does that.
Obviously, the higher gay population you have, the less people you'll have starting families and progressing the community.
But even screw the black community, humanity.
LGBT is a negative for humanity.
There's no net positive.
That's only a net negative with a higher LGBT population, only a net negative.
And nobody can really disagree with that statistical.
So just to be clear, you're asking if the LGBT community is hindering the Black Lives Matter movement.
And then like their viewpoints and their ideology and everything.
Of course, not on an individual level.
I believe in personal freedom as much as the next person.
If you're an adult, do whatever you want.
But the ideologically speaking.
If you look back in history, we talk about Martin Luther King a lot because you know everyone hated him, but he's been whitewashed.
So we love him.
We don't call him a communist and things anymore.
That's what will happen years and many years from now when I'm gone, they'll act like I was the greatest person ever instead of this angry black lady.
But there was a man called Baynard Ruskin who was a queer black man.
There was another person by the name of Audrey Lloyd.
Let's be clear.
I'm for the advancement of all black people.
So black queer people, I want you to be able to get a job.
I want you to be able to get housing.
I will find a way to help feed you.
There's so many black, trans, and queer people who have been on the front line.
And to talk about, you're talking about the population growth and black people, of course.
I'm tired of the fact we've been there for 13, we've been at 13% my whole life, but I will not blame that on the queer community.
I believe that every person in this country, no matter race, sex, or creed, should have equity in this country.
I do not believe that they are pushing up away my doctrines and what I believe in, because my thing is Black liberation.
And I understand there are many roads and many different avenues, and we all won't agree.
We all won't get along, but the ultimate goal is Black liberation.
So I feel like the only way to have Black liberation and the root and the core of advancing any community in the history of the world, I don't care what community it is, is the family unit.
And the family unit is intact, just statistically and historically, you will have more success.
Then you can pass down the generation of wealth that you obtain.
Then you're more likely to even have that wealth in the first place.
So an obvious threat to the black family unit is not only just the LGBT as is, like literally as is, the idea of it as is, but it's the agenda to push it more, especially on black people.
I grew up in the black community.
I never even seen a transgender person until I was like 18, 19.
Now they're trying to push it.
I'm from New York.
So it's a little different.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, I'm sure it's different in New York.
But so, so why I'm from though, like, I don't, you didn't see it.
Now, when you go to Atlanta, there was no queer cousins.
There was nobody in Southwood.
So, so, so, I knew, I knew gay people, but I never knew a transgender, no transgenders in my family.
Even still, I don't think there's a transgender in my family.
But, um, so when now, when I see things becoming more common, but then you look at it, when you look at McDonald's, when they do their marketing, they specifically promote black trans lives.
Or when I had a class of Black Lives Matter, they had less Black Lives Matter flags, but more Black trans lives matter flags.
I think I only saw three ones.
They only said Black Lives Matter.
So our flag is the Black Liberation.
It's the red, Black, and green.
Like if you Google me, you see it everywhere.
It's red, Black, and green.
I'm sitting in front of a Black wall.
So when I fight for Black people, I include all of them.
Right now, with us only being 13% of the population, any Black folk who want to come over and join this fight against this oppressive system, who wants to fight to get legislation passed, fight for Black people, I'm not turning them away.
I'm not judging you based on who you sleep with and who you lay with.
Of course, I believe in the Black family unit.
I wish all Black baby was born.
It breaks my heart to its core that more Black babies are murdered in New York City than born.
It hurts my soul when I see the census.
Leading with Love00:08:56
But as a Christian, I have to practice love.
I have to practice tolerance.
I have to, yeah, trust me.
I've sat down with my pastors about this, right?
Who have some views.
And it was like, if I show people love, it will lead people to Christ.
So who they lay with, that's not my business.
When I get up there, God's going to ask about what Shivana Renee Newsom did with her time on this earth.
It's not going to ask me about my trans homegirl who I'm about to start a protest and a rally with.
We coming for you, New York State soon.
But it's just, I'm not condemning them.
But because the thing is, we like to do is we like to make people the new nigger on the block.
That's what happens.
That's what, and let's be real.
Gay people got their rights because of black people.
Immigrants got their rights because of black people.
All these things have come.
I'm not, I'm not turning my back on someone who was oppressed and marginalized.
Just real quick, though, and you know, I'm sure you're looking me up.
I am a Bible dumper.
So since you brought up Jesus and God, Amen, Jesus.
We're going to have to get to the Bible because there's one issue.
You say your job is to love, but it's really not, though.
And what I mean by that is you said God's going to ask you what you, what did you do?
That's also not true.
In Ezekiel 3, 18 through 19, it says, if you warn somebody that they would die in their iniquity, then your soul is saved.
And if they still continue.
But if you don't warn somebody that they will die in their iniquity, if you don't warn somebody, their blood is on your hands.
It's actually your job to warn people and turn people from sin.
Lead somebody to Christ.
What's leading somebody to Christ is not telling them about Christ and them not changing because there's no such thing as being within Christ if you're not changing your life.
You can't sin.
God, wipe the white people out for being homosexual.
Absolutely.
Jesus.
Yeah, I know about Sodom and Gomorrah, but I don't have the power.
I'm not condemning people.
I'm just not.
He was without sin, let him cast the first stone.
I am nothing.
I compare nothing to his filthy rags.
I'm a horrible, terrible sinner who tries to be more like Jesus every single day.
I spread the word of God, the love of God.
And I hope that through my actions, I'm showing that I'm a servant of Christ, but I'm not condemning anyone.
But the way I've interpreted the word in the reading, yes, we know what the sins are.
You're guilty of sin.
Are you not a sinner?
So, no, I'm not okay.
Let me pick you.
You said you were working.
It's just no classification.
Hold on, this is no, it is.
It is.
I can explain it to you.
I really read the Bible daily.
This is literally what I do when it comes to the Bible.
So, let me explain this.
When people say I'm a worthless, rugged sinner, yeah, the thing is, that's not what Jesus calls you to be.
Jesus actually says, Be perfect as he, your father, is perfect in heaven.
Matter of fact, Jesus said, Walk like how I walk.
Matter of fact, in First John, it says, To really be like Christ, you have to actually walk like Christ.
So, you're not supposed to just live in sin for the rest of your life.
That's not biblical.
That's actually when Jesus came here, right?
Because he was the greatest revolutionary to ever live.
I'm calm compared to how Jesus was like kicking over tables and wilding out when he seen wrong things.
But who did he come to be with?
Who was he?
He wasn't hanging out with the Pharisees, he wasn't hanging out with these people who were righteous, who thought they were perfect and thought that they were God like.
He was hanging out with sinners to get the job done.
No, he was calling.
He was calling people to work.
He was calling.
Look at the people who he called.
He called murderers, he called sex workers.
He called these people.
I don't know their sexual identities, whatever was working with them back then.
But the Lord called people who are usually forgotten, who are usually outcasts, who are usually turned away, and he turned them great.
He made them the cornerstone.
So I can't turn my back on them.
But what did he tell them?
So, so my question is: if you're going to be Christ-like, though, in the same situation, do you tell your trans friend to turn and sin no more?
That's what Jesus did.
Not only that, Jesus didn't like the Pharisees, but not because they thought they were righteous.
Jesus called the Pharisees righteous, but what he said, what they say righteous, he said, Do as the Pharisees say, but not as they do, because they talk, but they don't do what they say.
So, Jesus' whole point was that the Pharisees were hypocrites, but do as they tell you to do.
That's what he said, do as they tell you to do in Matthew, because the Pharisees were considered the gold standard, but he was calling them hypocrites.
What they were saying was truthful.
But so, my question is: do you tell your trans friend to go and sin no more?
And I invite my trans friends to church, I invite every single person because we are Christians, my brother and I both.
Um, before we start, any action, any rally, any meeting, we pray to Christ.
We hope that I pray and hope that my life is enough to lead people to Christ.
I do not condemn them, I do not throw stones at them.
So, if I am guilty of that, that's something I'll have to take up with the good Lord.
But no, I do not.
I show people the love of God.
So, but but yeah, God hated people too.
Psalm 5:5, Malachi chapter 1, verses 2 through 3.
Uh, then Paul reset it in Romans 2.
Um, I'm just saying there is things we have to do.
Like, if we're going to be employees of Christ, we have a job description.
And um, so do you condemn white supremacists?
Do you lead them to God?
Do you condemn these neo-Nazis who you love to talk to?
Do you tell them that they're wrong for hating and want to kill black people?
Or you know, do you say these things?
So, once again, the same way that I should be talking to trans people, right?
Who are on the ground who are feeding people, who are getting their heads cracked by the NYPD, who are fighting for legislation, who are out there doing the work, like they're really side by side, lifting and moving things.
Do you tell these white supremacists and neo-Nazis to love black folk?
This is what you tell me.
I tell, I tell them that you're they're paying their skin color of a guy.
So, I said the same message to everybody.
I actually debate with white supremacists, I debate with neo-Nazis, I debate with everybody.
Matter of fact, here's the thing: I used to be super pro-black.
One of the main reasons I know about what happened.
You got you got fed up, you got tired of it.
No, hey, I got a friend taking up people peeing my name.
Oh, folk be so stupid.
Never mind, that's a different subject.
But listen, I used to be super pro-black, not just regular pro-blacks.
There's a KKK, like a KKK white knights was in my area.
I'm in North Carolina.
Yeah, you can miss out.
Please, my name is South Carolina.
Like, that's a whole nother in-your-fame pro-ass race.
Yeah, so I used to be a lone wolf.
I used to basically do what they do.
I used to go out at night, like three o'clock in the morning, making things happen, you know, doing certain things.
But what changed is the more you read the Bible, the more I came to Christ, I realized that my people weren't people because they had the same skin color as me.
My people are those people that are on a narrow path.
So I instantly sort of have to leave that ideology.
Well, you can't take everybody.
We, even the Bible says this, like every like, even when Jesus comes back, you can't take everybody.
But while I'm here, right, I feel, you know, whatever you're doing, you feel like it's your call from God.
I feel like it's my call from God to lead people to liberation.
My personal mission in life is to eradicate poverty.
So that's my role and my mission in this.
I do have a question, though.
Jump in here.
I'm still.
Follow me on the gram.
We can have a debate or something.
Okay, bet, bet, bet.
I'll bring you on my YouTube show too.
Great.
I'm really matchmaking here.
Well, we became buddies like that too.
And we're like Twitter buddies after one interview.
It just happens here.
So I want to go to Shivana for the slash first thing.
We talked about last time I spoke to you about Kyrie Irving and all that stuff.
And obviously, you guys were on the front lines, let's call them of those protests.
I think that was somewhat of a victory, even if it's not directly caused by the protests that happened.
Kyrie Irvy withheld, and they ended up calling him back.
And I want to know, in your line of work, you had all these people probably just like myself reach out to you and telling you that they agree with you and they're happy to have BLM and BLM Greater New York champion the same type of things that they're working on against vaccine passports, for example, against forced vaccination.
How often do you come up against people?
And I'm and it doesn't matter if they're progressive or not, which who have a problem with you know, you as being a Christian person, you being against the mandates.
Is this something you have to battle with a lot of the time?
Absolutely.
But Christ was persecuted.
He died on the cross.
Say when I called Kamala Harris when they announced her nomination on the Times, Rean Wall Street Journal, made CNN.
I said that she was a top cop who had never done anything good for black folks.
I had liberals attack me.
If I speak out against the GOP, I think that that's just the role that comes with being a truth teller.
I've had liberal friends unfollow me, people I knew before social media, because I don't drink the DNC's Kool-Aid.
I just think it's something that comes along with the work.
Independent Voice00:03:54
Every week, people find a new reason to hate me or something I say.
So it's a part of the job at this point.
Okay, tell us what else you're up to right now, and then we'll head over to Bryson.
Anything you want to let people know that you're up to?
Absolutely.
We're still feeding the families of the Bronx, nation's poorest congressional district.
We did some work for the Twin Parks fire.
We have council people recently elected.
But right now, the big push is black opportunities.
You can find us on theblackops.com.
This is about being self-reliant.
This is about creating healing centers where families can get child care, healthcare.
We currently have a school, a Montessori school, where kids are receiving a $50,000 free education in the Bronx.
So check out our work.
Go to Black Lives Matter, GreaterNewYork.com, support the movement, buy a t-shirt, help us feed people.
And to Black people watching this, wake up.
This government does not care about you, whether they're Republican or Democrat.
No one's coming to save you but yourself.
I agree with that last statement.
I agree with that last statement so much as crazy.
Tweet this all the time.
I haven't tweeted to conservatives that sit at home waiting on the government to save them.
No, you have to be self-reliant.
You have to get up and do something.
We have to save us.
Bryson, I know that when I talked to you previously, you considered not voting at all or voting for a third party.
Where are you standing these days on the Republican Party?
And just as a quick update up here, we've got the Conservative Party in Canada.
Now they're coming out against the lockdowns.
Now they're coming out against the shutdowns.
Nobody really believes them, right?
It's been two years and they said nothing, but now it's politically convenient.
What are you thinking moving forward about who you want to support, who people who listen to Bryson Gray should support?
What do you think about that?
Is there any answer coming?
I don't know as of now, but I do my action based on what they do.
So if they do something that I think is not right, then I'm going to continue.
I was an independent.
I was a Democrat that turned to independent and turned a Republican and back to independent.
So neither party is really for us.
If you can't see, the Republican Party is gay, bro.
These people are not supporting us.
These people don't support anybody, dog.
Like, I mean, obviously, I like the Democrats less, but I don't do the less of two evils type thing.
I think both are evil.
So I mean, unless somebody can convince me otherwise, then I'm going to continue that path.
Google, I voted until Google, I voted until Black Lives Matter.
The Democrats wanted to kill us.
We wouldn't support Hillary Clinton.
It was 2016.
And yeah, we actually withheld our vote for the general election.
A couple of us.
It was just like nobody wanted to play the lesser of two evil games.
We knew like super predators and all of the work that she had done.
But yeah, you sound like how we sound in 2019.
I'm actually what?
I was an independent my whole life until I ran for Congress.
And then, yeah, I'm back to being an independent now.
So it was a pleasure.
I actually enjoyed this.
Yeah, it was fun.
It was fun.
Let me ask you about that quickly, Shivana.
Oh, I just forgot what I was going to ask.
Is it about you?
It was about me being an independent.
No, it was about something with the lesser of two evils, but it's slipping my mind.
Anyways, I'm sure I'll think of it next time.
Thank you guys both.
Tweet me.
Okay, exactly.
Thank you both for doing this.
It's exciting.
We learn a lot.
We get history lessons.
Anything you got, either you guys want to say before we let you go?
Thanks again for coming on.
Thank you, Andrew, for having us.
Go out there, do the work, keep fighting.
Stop being couch revolutionary.
You have the power to change this world.
If you are a person who believes in the Constitution and the founding rights of this doctrine, these things are your duty.
It's your right to fight for your freedom.
These are the things that you're God-giving rights.
Go Out There, Do the Work00:01:03
So go out there and take them.
It's not going to come on your couch.
I want to repeat what she just said.
Stop being the couch revolutionary.
Stop being out.
And it's funny because I say this.
I say this all the time.
That's how funny it is.
Stop being on the couch thinking you're going to make a change from there.
Oh, just simply being on Twitter.
Be out there in the streets.
I don't care how cold it is.
We were just in DC and it was, boy, it was ice cold, but I don't care.
We was outside, though.
You feel me?
I don't care what you're outside for.
Get outside because there's some people that can't.
There's some people that literally are unable to be outside.
So those that can, you have no excuse, bro.
Get outside.
Stop talking on the internet all day.
All right.
Thank you both.
People can't get outside talking to internet.
So follow me.
I'm hit New York forward, V-O-N-N-I, New York Vonnie.
That's my hando on Twitter and Instagram.
And I'll follow you back because we have to continue this conversation.
Thanks for having me, gentlemen.
Have a great day.
You guys as well.
And I still think it's a travesty.
Bryson was not at America Fest.
I'm going to fight for you on that every week, Bryce.