Vince Dow, chair of the American Populist Union, shares his frustration over Twitter bans and Michigan’s COVID skepticism, predicting mandate collapse by May. He warns January 6th will be weaponized like 9/11 to justify crackdowns on conservatives, while questioning if 2024 can deliver a real Trump candidacy. John Doyle critiques Dow’s disruptive America Fest appearance, calling Elod’s approach misguided but defending Rittenhouse’s symbolic role. The duo mocks Jack Murphy’s performative masculinity—alleged 2019 cam porn claims and "soft eyes"—and dismisses conservative platforms as uncool, arguing free speech must be a constitutional right, not a marketable trend. [Automatically generated summary]
John Doyle is a political commentator who hosts Heck Off Kami on YouTube with 330,000 subscribers and is often seen on Blaze TV's You Are Hearing slightly offensive.
Vince Dow is a popular Gen Z commentator who is the chair of the American Populist Union.
When he was in high school, his classmates tried to stop him from being valedictorian just for his conservative views.
Both, I'm happy or unhappy to say, have been kicked off of Twitter.
Welcome, gentlemen, Vince.
John, how are you guys?
Doing quite well.
Thank you for having us here.
Our favorite Leaf, Andrew, host of the immensely popular Andrew Says show.
We're excited to be here.
Yeah, I agree.
It's great to be here.
Great to be back, like he said, with my favorite Canadian.
Yeah.
Appreciate the good words, you guys.
Lockdown situations.
We just went into a lockdown, you guys.
Curfew in Quebec.
What's the situation where you guys are?
Are we feeling any coronavirus at all?
No, not in Texas.
And even I went back home for Christmas and I was back in Southeast Michigan, which, you know, that's where Gretchen Witmer was wielding a lot of power illegally, arguably, during like the height of this pandemic, so to speak.
And I went back there and nobody actually is buying into it anymore, which is good because even when like it was actually a right-wing position when this all started in like March of 2020 to be like skeptical of COVID because there was some of that being charged by this anti-China sentiment, but it was the left who was mobilizing the sort of rhetoric that Trump was trying to manufacture this crisis to stay in office, which I was kind of crossing my fingers for a little bit, but that didn't end up happening.
So then as everything came out that it was actually like just BS, now people on the right became skeptical of it and now basically are just denying that it's actually like a real thing.
And so you see a lot of that reflected throughout the masses where people aren't even wearing masks anymore.
They're still going out in public, attending concerts, going to restaurants.
And this is new because throughout the summer and probably for the better part of the last like nine months or so, people were still doing that, but they were still wearing face masks because they understood that this is like what the herd is doing, so to speak.
And they didn't want to get, you know, caught into some sort of viral incident.
They didn't want the confrontation.
So they're like, okay, I'll wear the mask.
But now slowly over time, people now aren't even doing that, which is good because the masks in themselves were never a display of like a defense against like some sort of, you know, virus or something like that.
Because even on the masks packaging, it says this doesn't actually prevent like a viral infection or something.
Like the whole point of the masks was basically a gesture of conformity to the narratives, which is why if you were not wearing a mask, a mask during the height of the pandemic, people wouldn't give you a look of like fear, like as if you walked in with like an AR-15 to a public place or something.
They gave you a look of like disgust.
Like you're not doing that thing we're all supposed to be doing.
It was like a dirty look, the same way that if you walked into a store without pants or something, they would give you that dirty look because what you're doing is deviant from what we're supposed to be doing.
This is what we're supposed to be doing.
And it makes them uncomfortable because what you're doing is demonstrating that it is possible to be deviant from that sort of manufactured group consensus.
So I would predict that this whole thing is basically going to be over by May.
And even the media is starting to catch up now.
You know, there really is like a sort of a delay.
The same way there's a delay between what conservatism is saying and what liberalism was saying 10 years ago, there is a delay between what the media is saying and what right-wing anonymous Twitter accounts were saying 18 months ago.
And now you're starting to see the media play catch up because they have midterms coming up.
And of course, they exist as like the sort of adjacent arm of the Democrat Party and the state and the regime and what have you.
So now they're starting to say, well, you know, the masks don't really protect against transmissions.
Neither do the vaccines.
All of this is kind of, you know, redundant.
And even Joe Biden basically said, because now people are like, well, we have 300,000 cases a day.
And Joe Biden basically said, go back to work, Jack, get over it.
And so the saddest thing I think about it all, though, is that this really is just going to be memory hold within the masses.
Like people are just going to forget that this was like actually a thing that happened.
They're going to forget the lives.
They're going to forget how many businesses were destroyed, how many people died, 10 times as many people dying as a result of the policies that crushed the middle class compared to how many actually were supposedly have died from the virus, things like that.
So it's probably the greatest psyop in human history, I would say.
Stealing my talking points, John.
Vince, you're still in California, right?
Anki Wee, full screen when you're talking there.
We're going, no, you're not.
I need to catch on.
No.
Yeah, actually, I've been living in Florida since like last August.
Yeah.
So, I mean, out here, it's Florida.
You know, everyone knows the story.
I think I don't think it's a shock to anyone how that all works out here.
But I actually went home for Christmas, you know, back to LA, and it was the opposite of what John said.
Like, it's literally everyone's still wearing masks and all that stuff.
Actually, I mean, the thing about people in LA is, you know, they just, they're very hypochondriac when it comes to this stuff and they just have low impulse control in general.
So, like, the second there's any like news of any new spike or anything like that, immediately it's like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, like everyone just basically still freaks out, even though this has happened like every single time, right?
Delta, the second, third waves of the original one, all this stuff.
No, they're like still extremely like freakish about this stuff.
You go in LAX, many double masks.
I saw many of them.
It was, it was insane.
Like it was just all over the place.
So LA, I don't know.
You know, that, you know, the story at that place.
That place is a lost cause.
It probably resembles Canada in a lot of ways.
Actually, I could barely go anywhere in LA because I, you know, I'm not vaccinated.
I'm not going to make a fake vaccine card.
You know, people do that thing.
Oh, I'm so cool.
I'm such a rebel against the system.
Like, no, you're actually just basically playing into the system.
You're getting around it, but you're still enabling the mandate.
So I wasn't going to do that.
So I barely went anywhere.
Didn't see any of my high school friends because of that reason.
But yeah, back here in Florida, great to be back here.
And I think John is right too.
I think that we're kind of now reaching the point where it's just basically going to be given up.
Mass Awakening Narratives00:11:03
I know the kind of boomer talking point is like, well, they're just going to keep wielding power for as long as they can wield power, which is true.
But I think they're kind of running out of that point where it's like useful to them at all, really, to like continue to be locking people down or, you know, mask mandates or whatever.
I think probably the new front is going to be the vax mandates, right?
That's probably the new kind of angle by which they're going to wield power.
And even then, I think they're struggling a lot with that because, you know, you're seeing labor shortages, you're seeing mass economic loss, which I guess they're willing to take some of, but the question is, it's kind of going to be this whole situation of push and pull, like who's going to basically cave first?
You know, at the end of the day, if enough unvaccinated people decide, you know, we're literally going to boycott the economy unless we're allowed in, you know, I don't see how long they can keep that up for.
But I think that's kind of the new, that's the new front, right?
It's no longer really about fighting lockdowns or even mask mandates to a large extent.
It's probably the vaccine stuff.
They literally are incapable, incapable of understanding how political power works.
They literally cannot understand that, which is why, of course, that which defines the boomer is simply the inability to understand that things have changed.
And it's like they think they sort of have this infantile conception of how power is wielded because their entire concept of power has been spoon-fed to them by Hollywood and by public education.
And so when they think of power, they think of this one guy who just really just gets off on making people have to like, oh, you have to listen to me.
And it's this one guy, which is not how it works.
Part of how liberal democracy maintains its tyranny is by convincing people through mass media brainwashing that they have consented to the tyranny.
And so this is what you see with like voting, for example.
Like obviously the oligarchs and the ruling class are going to do whatever they're going to do anyways, but they have to hold elections so that people think, well, I have consented to this, therefore it's true.
And what we saw in the 2020 election was a little bit of, we'll say, fortifying in favor of who the ruling class wanted to be in office, which of course was Joe Biden.
But you can only do that to such a certain extent.
So, for example, Republicans have been winning Republican, or I should say, presidential elections for the last 60 years or so.
But if you look categorically speaking, they've been winning them by slimmer margins each time.
So, like Donald Trump, I think the number is 80,000 votes he won by across like three states in 2016.
So, he was immensely more popular in 2020 than he was in 2016.
But still, they were able to manufacture these ballots in urban areas and were able to like override that.
And so, it's like with midterms coming up, they know that there's going to be a huge red wave because Joe Biden is so unprecedentedly unpopular.
Virtually every metric by which you could measure the success of a presidency is showing that he's absolutely tanking the country.
And it's like, okay, they have to kind of ease off the gas a little bit because they know that they can only correct within a certain margin of error in a way that would fortify the election in a result that they want it to go in.
And so, with something so unpopular, like all the COVID draconian restrictions, they know that they now have to ease off of that in order to kind of make things a little bit more realistic for them in terms of making the election go the way that they want to go in the 2022 midterms.
See, that's what I was thinking about here because we have provincial elections, state elections coming up for three provinces this year.
You guys have the midterms, even Australia has an election, I'm pretty sure, but they just locked us down again for at least another three weeks.
I don't know if this is their big play to, you know, say, look how the boosters work or what they're doing with that.
But like I mentioned before, Quebec has a curfew now.
Vince, what are you thinking?
Do you blame the politicians at this point for going as far as they can?
Are you blaming people for not standing up?
Obviously, you voted with your feet, which I'm hoping to do at some point if I'm allowed to leave the country.
What do you think about this?
Well, you know, like John brought up in a liberal democracy, it's always kind of a mix of both, right?
I think it's definitely true that the people at this point, because I think part of the reason why you don't see that stuff so much in America is because, you know, generally just the American spirit, like Americans are more resistant, even like liberal Americans as compared to liberal Canadians or whatever are more resistant to that stuff.
And I think they just kind of knew all along that some type of lockdown like that wouldn't be possible.
But at the same time, you can't just entirely blame like the masses because what are the masses in any population, especially in like a democratic society?
You know, the masses are simply a product of the institutions and the media inside of mass narratives that kind of form what the masses think.
So, you know, I think I think it's a two-way street.
And I don't want to bring up the whole boomer talking point of like, it's just time for people to wake up.
But, you know, in a way, I guess that kind of has to happen.
So, John, do you really, are you really predicting a red wave for 2022 for the midterms?
I mean, yeah, absolutely.
And I agree with Vince's point about these sort of, I guess you'd say, misconceptualized like narratives that the boomers tell themselves about these moments of mass awakening where everyone is just going to wake up and we're going to take the country back.
And it's like every time they fantasize about this, it really is such a cope because it's always taken to the extreme.
So it's never, we're going to wake up and we're going to go, we're going to go door knocking for like an authentically right-wing candidate, or we're going to wake up and we're going to hold a protest or some form of rally.
It's always we're going to wake up and we're going to, they start Fed posting like boomers, the boomer to Fed posting pipeline is so real.
But there is something to be said about that point that could explain that point.
For those who, those who aren't going to get Fed posting.
So Fed posting is it's slang for when you say something that is that could get you in trouble with like federal police.
And so it's said that because a lot of times what you see is these federal informants or federal agents will literally infiltrate right-wing, exclusively right-wing, by the way, spheres of conversation, whether that be online or even like militias or something.
And they'll start saying things to try to entrap people.
So, this is what happened with that whole Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping thing.
They were in these group chats and they were like, hey, what if we kidnapped the governor?
And someone was like, yeah, what if?
And then they got arrested.
And because, you know, that came across Gretchen Whitmer's desk as it does, or came across her, you know, chief of staff or her comms person's desk.
And they had to make a decision as to what to do with that story.
And because this was the same time that she was immensely unpopular because of all these restrictions that she was implementing in Michigan, she chose to employ that story as a PR thing so that she could victimize herself and sort of have this mythos of, I'm doing right by the Michiganders and people are trying to take me down for it.
What was me?
I'm a victim.
And that worked really well for her.
But it was, it was not the case.
And so what I mean by that is that boomers will often, you know, jump straight to we have to rise up and take the country back, like this sort of like revolution scenario, which not only is that unrealistic.
And even if it were realistic in terms of like the mobilization of the right, we would get absolutely just creamed by the left and by the regime.
So that's not a good idea anyways.
And anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to you or getting paid by the FBI.
So it is true, though, that if there were something that could make the masses sort of wake up, it's not going to be to an extent where they wake up and all of a sudden they agree with us on all the issues.
But when you can cut off the material conditions that the masses are used to and you can limit their access, relatively speaking, to what they were used to, to things like food and entertainment and sex, they will kind of start to realize like, wait a minute, this isn't right.
And they will probably vote against the incumbent regime.
Not necessarily they're going to be your guys and they're going to bring that energy to your side, but they will vote against the incumbent regime in most cases.
So I think when we say red wave, it's not so much all of a sudden these people are like red-pilled.
It's more like they're realizing, hey, whatever we're doing now isn't quite working.
I'm going to see what these guys are on about.
Did you guys see?
I think it was the Daily Mail.
They found that guy from January 6th, the one who was saying, let's go to the Capitol.
I'm probably going to get arrested for saying this.
Did you guys say that?
He's riding his lawnmower and he wouldn't speak.
Why isn't he in jail?
You might ask.
But he said that he definitely has never worked for the federal services there, the FBI or anything.
What do you guys, do you think there's an end to the January 6th story?
Or do you think they just let it sort of die out with this inconsequential trial they've had or a court case?
Vince?
No, I think it's something that is going to be basically brought up and milked whenever it's needed.
You know, so you'll kind of see it canned for quite a few weeks or months.
And then, you know, whatever the scenario has to be, there's an election coming up or, you know, Biden is just very unpopular in some other regard.
They're just going to keep bringing it up.
And it'll, I think what they're trying to do, and I don't know how successful it will be.
I think it'll be marginally successful.
What they're trying to do basically is make this like the new 9-11, 9-11 being the sort of terrorist incident that defined American life for basically some odd like two decades.
They're going to try to do that as much as possible.
Now, I don't think it'll be quite as successful.
I don't think it'll ever really shape our lives as much as 9-11, but that's what they're going to try to do.
And I think even if 1.6 itself sort of becomes kind of a distant memory in the back of our minds, it's going to kind of formulate, I think, a lot of federal policy when it comes to the national security state and whatnot for like decades to come the same way 9-11 did.
And you'll definitely see it kind of in the back end used as motivation for, you know, definitely crackdown on a lot of conservatives and dissidents and stuff.
And that's all by necessity, too, because, and you'll see this two days from now where they're going to be having specials on mainstream cable television networks.
They're going to be making documentaries about this, all very emotionally turbulent things, because that is arguably the most important historical event for the left.
And it's funny because the far right and the far left sort of have this like horseshoe connection on how they perceive that event, the same way they do with Charlottesville.
They think it's like the most important thing to ever happen because the far right will be like, we stormed the Capitol and we showed them that we're the people and we're not going to let them take our country.
And it's like, okay, well, what happened?
You kicked the bear and now you're going to get your teeth kicked down your throat.
Like they're arresting you.
They're going to mobilize post-9/11 legal infrastructure against you.
So it really wasn't that big of a deal.
You accomplished nothing except getting yourselves basically arrested.
And the far left does the same thing with this is look at what white nationalism does.
It's the same thing.
The person who's more objectively analyzing this will tell you that it was basically nothing.
It was totally inconsequential.
But the regime needs to propagate it.
It's sort of like, I hate to use the allusions to Nazi Germany because that's a very like Reddit tier understanding of history, but it's sort of like with the Reichstag fire or even when Nero burned down Rome in I think 436 AD.
It's like the sort of manufacturing, like this, this crisis to justify the existence of the regime.
Because what mobilizes leftists and what always has is that they have to believe that they are in this perpetual state of revolution.
They're always punching up against the mean guys because fundamentally leftism is the mass mobilization of the spiritually ill, largely because of personal insecurity.
So these people have to believe that they are trying to destroy hierarchies, destroy power structures that are existing above them because they themselves are insecure because they know that they are basically dysgenic, unexceptional, forgettable people.
Figure Of Support00:14:52
And so that's why these are the people who, despite sharing virtually every opinion with corporate America, with the regime, with the media industrial complex, these are people who still think that they are the dissenting voices in society.
They are literally, and I mean this not pejoratively, but they are literally retarded because these are people who will read Noam Chomsky's manufacturing consent.
They will tell you, you have to read this.
You have to see how the manufacturer.
And then at the same time, they'll have like a Black Lives Matter sticker on their laptop.
And it's like, you literally do not get it.
You do not understand that you are the one who has consented to the manufacturing.
You doorknob, but they're not capable of this because they are the masses.
They are the useful idiots, as the Russian revolutionaries wrote.
This really came home to me when I saw that Colin Kaepernick is still in the Madden game and gave him a very favorable rating.
Very angering to a person like me.
What do you guys think is going to happen then when we come to 2024?
And like Biden's got these probably even lower ratings at this point.
Countries maybe bounce back a bit economically just by the ebb and flow of how an economy works.
Could be worse.
I don't know.
Could be, you know, 300,000 illegals a month and even higher inflation.
I don't know yet.
But do you guys think we get Trump Biden around two?
I know the Rogans of the world are saying it's going to be like Kamala and Buttigieg, or they're going to put in Michelle Obama.
What do you guys think?
What are we getting set up for here?
Because it's not going to be something normal.
It's not going to be straightforward.
I don't think.
I don't think it's going to be that simple.
What do you guys think?
So honestly, I'm kind of blackpilled on 2024 in this sense.
Not necessarily that like Republicans can't win, but like assuming that let's just say it is Trump versus Biden or Trump versus Kamala.
It's more so that I fear that the kind of system will not allow authentic, you know, 2016 spirit, like the Trump we want to win.
Okay, if that makes sense.
And I really sort of started as, you know, you see Trump saying all this stuff about the vaccine and whatnot and just really keeps continuously picking this hill to die on, really kind of abandoned his base when it comes to the issue of vaccine mandates, won't really talk about it that much.
It kind of has me a little bit like, you know, I don't know necessarily if the Trump we want, like the real Trump will be allowed to win.
And you might even see it just kind of artificially manufactured that Trump basically becomes the guy we fear he's becoming right now to do that.
I don't know.
I mean, we'll have to see.
There could be a total turnaround.
But I don't know.
In terms of like the election itself, it's hard to tell.
Like you look at 2020, going into 2020, it looked like Trump was going to win by a landslide and COVID happened.
Things can change very fast.
And so I would still say that things can change pretty fast when it comes to, you know, an election that's like three years away.
But if he continues on this state, I don't think inflation, all this stuff's going to go away very soon.
I think, you know, I think we have a good shot.
There's also an argument to be made.
It might get so bad and then peak in 2023 and then come around in 2024 because there will be a slight recovery.
It will look like Biden is like fixing things.
That's also a possibility, but I don't know.
It's far away.
I'm more concerned right now with like the state of Trump, who he's going to run.
I mean, we kind of know that, but like the state of what he's going to be as a candidate, you know.
John, you're a known Republican.
Are you putting your all bets in on them?
Oh, 100%.
I am actually white-pilled on Trump and on the 2024 election because I sort of view Trump as this very like once-in-a-lifetime political figure.
And in studying his life and reading his material and sort of analyzing the trend, I think that Trump is really going into this as sort of like his ultimate thing.
You know, if you look at Trump, he's always said his favorite thing, the thing that he likes the most is making deals.
And I think that he really views like winning in 2024 as the ultimate deal, like the ultimate like obstacle for him to overcome in his life because he totally had a 2020.
I mean, he was basically, it was a cakewalk and they took that away from him.
And he had disloyal R's occupying all the relevant institutions, legally speaking, that failed to go to bat for him and allowed for this to happen.
I think that he's making moves behind the scenes to prevent that from happening in 2024.
I think also the margin between where he was at in 2020 and where he will be in 2024 is going to be much more advantageous to him, both in terms of his absolute gains and the absolute losses in terms of support for his opposition.
I also think that in terms of how he has capitulated on the vaccine issue, I have some information that would suggest that he's still our guy.
And there's kind of some stuff going behind the scenes there.
Basically, what I'll say is that Trump knows that his base is anti-vaccine and he knows that they're not going to move on that, regardless of whether he tells them to get that.
And so we kind of have to wonder, well, if he knows that it's not even going to stick, why is he saying that?
Maybe there was something going on behind the scenes.
Maybe there's a reason that nobody heard from him for like the two days following, you know, January 6th and time broadly speaking between that and then when Biden was inaugurated.
So I think that we have to sort of acknowledge that while flawed, Donald Trump is the greatest political figure in the last hundred years in this country.
I would even make the argument ever since maybe George Washington.
And that's where the momentum is.
Like there is a reason that despite his rhetoric being pro-vaccine, there are still flags in rural states all throughout the country.
Even if you get out of the suburbs or even in the suburbs, all throughout the country, people are still all in on Donald Trump.
He is our guy.
He is the American Caesar.
And this country will rise from the ashes like the Phoenix under his leadership.
And I'm excited for that.
And Vince Dow, you know, you have to call.
I'm trusting the plan a little bit there, John.
No, I'm totally trusting the plan.
Not the Q plan, because that was a psyop.
But, you know, I do have to say, people like Vince Dow coming in, they're not sending their best.
And he's saying, you know, we have to not go all in on Trump.
I didn't say that.
I said I am all in on.
I am all in on Trump.
I'm just concerned.
You know, it's concerning, John.
I don't have the insider information like you do.
You know, I'm like, well, you know, this is why we trust the plan.
Vince Dow's over here like, well, I'll trust the plan provided that I have all this information.
No, trust is faith.
You have to just trust the plan.
Patriots in control, Vince.
Everything's going to be fine.
This is a John Dorne t-shirt waiting to happen.
Trust the plan with a capital P for Patriot or something like that.
Were you either you guys at America Fest?
Yeah.
Give me some takeaways from that as a person who's not allowed to leave his country.
Cringe, good, somewhere in between.
They kicked out the ELODs.
What do you guys think about the event after going there?
I like Elod a lot.
He's a friend of mine.
I think he does great work, but I think that he, frankly, deserved to get kicked out for that.
And I know that's an unpopular take because we want to like sort of excuse my language, but we sort of want to like masturbate to this idea of like journalists get in the scoop and journalists should be able to ask any question and free speech.
And it's like, that's true, but it's like.
Kyle Rittenhouse is the most popular figure on the right right now, other than like maybe your Tucker Carlson's or Donald Trump.
But in terms of the amount of people who gravitate towards anything that he has to say, that's the guy.
So maybe he comes out and he says that he's in support of Black Lives Matter.
Now, instead of looking at this objectively as this is a kid who has been thrown into the spotlight, maybe he doesn't have all the right positions, but still, this is so important that he exists as this figure because what he represents is that the right is willing to defend themselves.
Maybe not politically, but at least we still have enough courage to rally behind the issue of self-defense against leftist mobs.
That is so important.
And what he represents as a figure is so important.
So for Elod to come in and try to like, what, bring up that thing that he said that people jumped on him for, which by the way was so stupid because people don't understand that this kid, yeah, he's not going to prison for the rest of his life, but he still has lawsuits being filed against him by Gage Grosseritz, who, you know, he shot his arm off.
He's going to have lawsuits going out against media.
So if he goes out on an interview on Tucker Carlson, which is going to be viewed by tens of millions of people and he says, yeah, I don't like Black Lives Matter.
And he like gives our takes on it.
That hurts him.
That hurts him.
And so people want him to all of a sudden, because he's in the spotlight because of one issue, all of a sudden be good on like all the issues.
And it's like, you know, I can't say anything.
I've hung out with him.
All I can say is that everything he is saying is strategic.
Again, you have to trust the plan.
You can't have all of the information at all times.
And for Elod to come and kind of do that, you know, I play ball.
I understand what it takes to go viral, what it takes to be popular.
I think that there was probably a little bit of self-interest at work there.
You know, he wanted to be the guy to ask Kyle the question that everyone was mad about.
And I get that.
I'm not saying that's wrong.
But, you know, if you're going to try to swing at the king, you better make sure you don't miss, I guess would be the thing there.
So yeah, I think that that was kind of stupid of him to do.
Van, do you want to chime in on that?
Maybe Hawaiian shirt angle, something like that.
Yeah, I agree with John on that.
And I think the whole freak out over Kyle saying he supported BLM was largely overblown.
And I'm not saying I support the statement.
I'm not going to make kind of excuses for the statement in itself, but it's like half of the people who were like really freaking out about this, a lot of times are the same people who literally like pretend to be liberal in class to get an A, you know?
And so like, you're not willing to kind of take this stand for a grade in a class or to keep your job or whatever.
And you have this guy on the other hand, there's threats on his life.
You know, he almost faced, like John said, prison for life, still facing lawsuits to my understanding.
And it's like, you know, this guy has basically, you know, the biggest stakes on basically his entire life is on the line with this stuff.
And you're expecting him to do something that a lot of people will conceal or just straight up lie about to like get very easy, cheap opportunities in life.
So, you know, I'm not saying, I'm not like defending the statement in itself.
All I'm saying is I think it deserves a little bit of perspective.
You know, and the kid is what, 17, 18 now.
So, you know, just I would say show some grace.
You know, don't show, you know, there's no need to defend the statement, but show some grace towards it is what I would say.
As for America Fest, I don't know.
I actually didn't go.
I only went inside for like two speeches, whatever.
Most of the time, I was just there to kind of meet the friends I grew up with in this movement.
So that was kind of the main point.
So I don't really have much to say about the event itself.
One thing I want to add on to that as well, I'm not suggesting that he should have been kicked out because he asked the question.
It was the manner in which he asked the question.
And also, you can watch the video.
He's like trying to really insert himself in between the entourage of Kyle Rittenhouse, so to speak.
And it's like, I would be so in support of that if it were basically any one of my political enemies.
But you have to understand that Kyle is such an asset to us.
And he's also got a huge target on his back.
Like, there are people who are literally like calling for this guy to be executed.
And it's like, they don't have really that sophisticated of a you know security.
Like, obviously, I wouldn't want something like a TSA at Amfest, but they really do have to have absolutely no gray area with how this kid is, you know, operating.
I mean, everywhere he goes, he has full security.
He has this entourage.
And it's like you kind of want to pervert that so that you can have your viral moment and ask a question.
It's not even a good question.
It's like literally just serves to either hurt him or maintain his status.
It just didn't make any sense to me.
So you're flying really close to the sun these days, John.
And what do I mean by?
No, I mean, I mean, above the conversation is what I mean.
Not close to the, you know, commentarily, son, commentators.
Try getting it out.
I don't know if you're going to put this on television.
Well, a good reference, John Doyle.
It's very 2016 of you.
What I was going to ask is, who's the bearded alpha male guy that's been making the rounds these days?
Jack Murphy.
Yeah.
What is I hadn't heard of him until this fiasco is you seem to have the inside information, John?
Is this true what people are saying?
Are the claims true of his past?
Well, you know, Andrew, I'll say I don't, I don't know anything.
First of all, I have no issue with Jack.
I'm a businessman.
I get along with everybody.
And I've just heard that many people are saying that he was doing, you know, amateur pornography on cam sites back in 2019.
And a part of that whole, you know, I guess history included him masturbating with dildos and talking about homosexual intercourse that he had had with men, particularly college-age men.
And I don't know if this is true.
These are just things that I've been told people are saying this.
But unironically, I will say, this is a guy who followed me on Twitter back when I was on Twitter in March of 2019.
And I remember this was one of the first bigger accounts.
I think he had about 12,000 followers at the time.
And I clicked on his profile and he had in his biography that, you know, he covers sex and culture and masculinity.
And so I followed him back because I understood that that was the etiquette.
And then I met him at a party in DC in early 2020, pre-COVID.
And I was talking to him.
He was a really nice guy and he had a lot of interesting things to say.
But one thing I noticed about him is that he had very soft eyes.
I've never seen that on a man before.
No, seriously, he had like very soft eyes.
I just thought that was weird for a guy who talks about masculinity to sort of have that essence about him.
But I didn't really think anything of it.
But then I saw everything that happened on You Are Here with Sydney.
And she was really, you know, I know Sydney very well.
She's a friend of mine.
She had absolutely no malicious intentions.
She was just trying to do her job.
She probably thought that it was a joke too.
I mean, she didn't know that this guy had written about that before.
And so that happened.
And then, you know, instead of handling it stoically, he decided to sort of have this little episode and then he stormed off.
And, you know, I talk a lot about, well, I don't talk a lot about, but I do occasionally talk about masculinity.
And a lot of times people mainly leftists because they have no concept of masculinity.
They think of like, you know, Marvel comic book superheroes as like what masculinity is, but they don't really understand it, which is why they fall so easily into these like androgynous psyops and the trans thing and everything.
But like masculinity fundamentally, you know, you could argue different virtues of it, but I think it can basically be reduced to stoicism, responsibility, and independence.
So you can talk about masculinity and not, you know, because obviously I'm not like this like Viking-esque figure, but it's like I'm pretty relatively independent for my age, relatively stoic and relatively responsible.
And it's like, you know, you can say that, you know, John Doyle is a skinny Nazi soy boy.
And what does this guy know about masculinity?
it's like you know you will never see in any of the protest coverage that i do i'm walking into the lion's den any debate that i do anything like that you will never see me have like a meltdown like that and this guy did because he's not i guess as masculine as he purports himself to be and it really does get into this and i'm going to cover this very soon in a video how masculinity has become something of a commodity Something that was supposed to be this sort of natural instinct that is then sort of watered or nurtured by a father figure is now something of a business where guys are growing up.
You know, it's the line in the, in the, the fight club novel.
Masculinity As A Commodity00:05:09
It's like we're a generation of men raised by women.
We have no concept of masculinity.
And so we outsource it to these guys who for $99 a month are going to tell you what it takes to be a man.
And then these guys are, you know, masturbating with dildos.
And it's like, well, I can tell you that that's not what you're supposed to be doing probably.
And so I think that this is especially pernicious because you've got these guys who really just don't quite have what it takes necessarily.
And that should have been fostered by some sort of positive male influence.
But instead of going out there and becoming more responsible, becoming more independent and trying to, you know, be more confident with themselves, more secure with themselves to try and develop some degree of stoicism.
They're like reading these blog posts about like, this is what like an alpha male or a sigma male would do.
When a girl does this, you should say this.
They're trying to like kind of like lockpick their way into being a man and using like these little tips and tricks.
And it's like, that's not what it's about.
You're never going to have that.
Masculinity, being a man is something that is that is nurtured over your entire life, basically.
Like I know guys who are 70 who are more, you know, manly, even at their, you know, approaching decrepancy than Jack Murphy at like, you know, however old he is.
And I also know guys who at 23 are more masculine than some guys in, you know, their 40s who still like aren't married and they're still living, you know, in New York and eating avocado toast with their lattes and everything.
Like it really is not so simple as kind of like, oh, I believe these things and I have these programs and I lift weights and I do this and therefore I'm a man.
It's like, if you're not responsible and you're very emotional and you're not independent, you are not a man.
And I understand that, you know, I'm 22 and it's like, I don't have a family.
So I'm not saying that like I'm the authority on this, but also I'm not saying that anyone necessarily should be the authority on this.
I mean, to be the authority on this is what it means to be masculine is kind of acknowledging the problem, which is that this has become something of a business and something of a commodity, which is really symptomatic of just how, I don't want to say screwed, but problematic our society is in terms of, you know, the gender roles and everything, which of course has led basically opened up the floodgates for things like transgenderism to become a mainstream conversation.
Cause it's like, if we don't know what men are supposed to be doing, what defines men, if we don't know what women are supposed to be doing, what defines womanhood, it's like, yeah, why could you not basically just like, you know, press start and change teams halfway through if you're feeling a little bit lost.
There's no argument against that if we don't have arguments for traditional gendered roles.
Sex, love, and masculinity is going to be my book, I think.
Vince, I was going to let you talk on that subject if you have anything else to add on that that John has stolen from you.
Yeah, I think, well, I think true.
I think that Jack to me has always come off as something of like the epitome of the, I would say, LARPing problem also that we have in our movement, you know, because this guy, I remember his Twitter profile picture from back when I was on Twitter, right?
He had like this face like this, you know, he has this beard here and he's like, oh, I'm a life coach, I'm a man, you know, and it's like, it turns out he's like a gay cuckold like this entire life or whatever.
And it's, it's, I think we have a, we have this problem with like a lot of angles of the movement, whether it's, you know, the unrealistic, you know, just like over-the-top masculine life coaches like, you know, that turn out to be LARPers, or whether it's like the woman who otherwise dressed like whores, but will like put on like a pilgrim dress from like the 1800s and post and be like, oh, I'm a trad wife, whatever, you know, it's like, you don't look like realistic.
You look like you're cosplaying.
You don't really look modest.
You look like you're in a costume and that's what they are doing.
They're basically cosplaying.
You know, that's just a real problem in general.
You know, people need to get serious and stop LARPing.
Aaron Beattie had a really great way of describing that, too.
It's uh, he referred to it as male-to-male transsexuals.
And this is so important because if you think about transsexuals, which have become mainstream, like we just talked about, because of this sort of androgynous culture that we've produced because of left-wing ideology, it's like what has always embodied the transsexual is this very hypersexual pornographic caricature of, say, what it means to be a woman.
So, if I'm a man and I'm identifying as a woman, I'll get the hair and I'll get you know top surgery, breast implants.
I'll have, like, look at Blair White, for example, like a bimbo, you know, very like in all this makeup and Botox and things like that.
It's like that's not what it means to be a woman.
I mean, that's not like what being a mother is, that's not what being a sister or a daughter or a woman is, but it's like this is this sort of you know, fetishized appearance of it.
And it's like the same thing that these men do who don't quite understand what it means to be a man.
They take this almost exaggerated, fetishized idea of what a masculine man is: the big beard, I deadlift, I squat, I've got whiskey, and I've got a cigar.
This is what men do.
And it's like they're LARPing.
Those are props.
Men don't necessarily, you know, have to drink dark liquor and smoke cigars, but they're doing this as this sort of theatrical thing because they're trying to, you know, appeal to this idea that we have of days past where, oh, I guess, you know, John Wayne was smoking, you know, camel cigarettes or whatever.
And this is what men do.
And it's like, men do do that.
That's true.
But that is not what it means to be a man.
And it's like you're trying to supplement your lack of authentic understanding of masculinity with these props to try to fool people to sell your product to them.
And it is so dangerous and it's so harmful.
And you really do have to feel bad for anybody who kind of bought into that.
You can't necessarily blame them per se because it is this sort of seductive marketing scheme.
Challenging Social Media Norms00:06:52
But hopefully we can kind of get away with that as we go forward.
You know, I really just have a strong contempt for LARPers in the movement, whether that's with this sort of like Vince pointed out with, you know, these trad girls who, you know, in 2016, they were putting on the MAGA hat and then they were like, look at me, I like Trump.
And now it's the same, they're putting on the trad wife dress.
Look at me, I'm trad.
And it's like, no, you're not.
A trad woman would not know what trad even means.
She would just like, you know, just like, I'm just doing these things naturally.
So it is so bad.
And we're going to fix it.
We will fix fast.
Okay.
I want to ask both of you guys about the whole Twitter versus Getter thing.
Obviously, Rogan signed up for Getter the other day, which had a huge influx for them.
People are still saying it's censored.
People are still saying, you know, it's getting money from suspicious places.
My question to you guys, I think, is: do we even need these places?
Is there a need to, you know, infiltrate or push position ourselves into these social media spaces?
Is there not?
Or do we have to get into the pop culture game to win the quote-unquote, quote-unquote, info war?
Vince, you want to say that?
Well, I think that.
Okay.
I think that you definitely need them just out of necessity because of the fact that we're literally not just not allowed in many cases.
Like me and John are not allowed on Twitter.
You know, what are we supposed to do?
Where else are we going to go?
As for Getter itself, I, you know, let me say about Getter, I'm open-minded to the concept of it in the sense that I know it is something that's kind of like promoted by the conservative establishment, right?
It's something that's kind of built up by people like Jason Miller and a lot of money around it.
I will say, in theory, that can be a good thing.
It can be a good thing in the sense that, you know, as we so often talk about, kind of conservative populism is not just about like just doing everything by grassroots power.
No, what we want are kind of oligarchs and aristocrats and elites who actually do good things for us.
You know, and I so I think in theory, what I would say is that something like Getter or Truth Social could be a very useful contribution if the conservative establishment in theory wanted to actually like do something good for once.
It could be said that it's a good thing that it's actually allowed on the app store, unlike a lot of these other apps, because that way it's actually accessible to people.
You know, that way it kind of plays the game.
It plays the system.
The problem I have is, of course, if it's going to kind of advertise as, you know, a free speech platform, I think that, you know, it has to do that.
And I think that's what we have to be pushing for.
I actually have a video on my YouTube channel about that coming out later today.
And so that, you know, that's, that's the concern, I would say.
I agree with a lot of that.
I think that also what's important to understand is that no one's ever going to like go to those platforms.
Like they're trying to reinvent the wheel.
And when they talk about free speech, they're not actually serious about that.
They define free speech as like basically posting about how maybe Ivermectin should be more available.
Like that's their definition of free speech.
They're not actually going to allow for anything that is legitimately like edgy or controversial.
And the reason Twitter is so important to be on is because everyone's there and they're there because it's cool.
Twitter, you know, it's toxic, but Twitter, in my opinion, is like the ultimate like perfect social media platform in terms of how everything can be connected to everything.
You know, you can quote, tweet and add an image and add a video and link to somebody else's thread.
It's like it is so interconnected in a way that no other social media platform is.
I think it's ideal for public discourse and for politics, which is why, you know, in a lot of ways, it's more important to be on Twitter than it is even YouTube.
Like I've seen people with 25,000 followers on Twitter have a more syndicated network than me with 330,000 followers on YouTube.
Even though it's harder to get YouTube subscribers than it is Twitter, a lot of times Twitter is seen as like this sort of like token of legitimacy to like, you know, your, your status within politics, so to speak.
But it's like everybody navigating to these other platforms, which we've seen probably about 50 of by now, five or so have become, you know, red household names, but there's been about 50 of these spinoff platforms.
And it's like, they're not cool because everybody knows that they're getting on there as this sort of protest.
Like, fine, I'm going to a different lunch table.
It's like, yeah, but you're not allowed at the cool kids table because they kicked you off because you're being edgy.
But even they are allowed, like people like Shoe On Head, for example.
This is the person who knows implicitly that everything she believes and along with all of her fans, all of these like bread tubers or adjacent bread tubers, they all know that everything they believe is basically non-threatening to the establishment, but it's still fun to be edgy and it's still cool and sexy to be edgy.
And so then they start co-opting right-wing jokes, right-wing memes and right-wing vernacular.
You see this invariably.
You look at where all the best memes are coming from.
All the best slang is coming from.
It's from the right because the right understands how to be edgy because we were born into it, molded by it, because we have to be because we're actually threatening to the establishment.
We exist in a state of deviance from that.
And so everything that is edgy by definition is going to come from the right.
And it's kind of like, you know, what PJW and Gavin McInnes were talking about back in 2016, how, you know, the right is a new counterculture.
It's true.
And we have to exist on these mainstream platforms to be able to spread that.
I don't think that seeding ground and going somewhere else and basically, you know, isolating ourselves in these echo chambers where it's like, we have free speech, which means that we can say that Trump won the election and maybe Ivermectin is something that should be explored.
It's like, no one's going to rally for that.
No one cares about that.
We have to be where the conversation is happening if we want to influence people because the only institutions that we have left in terms of like individual representation for the time being are social media platforms and like government.
And that even is a window that's closing.
And so I think that a lot of these attempts to sort of reinvent the wheel in a way that's less cool and less fun is just stupid.
And it's just like these very performative victories that make a lot of, well, not a lot of people, a few or small group of people, I should say, a lot of money in the process by convincing people that we're getting something done about free speech.
You said go make your own social network.
Yeah.
Well, guess what?
We did.
And it sucks and it's not cool.
So yeah, I'm black.
I think the goal, the goal ultimately just needs to be to somehow, and I don't know how, but somehow get, you know, Republicans to take real political action, legislative action to fully protect free speech, like not this cope of like Section 230 or something else, like just literally just pass a law.
I don't know how it works, whatever, just protecting constitutional free speech on social media, but I don't think it's going to happen.
I don't know.
It's true.
And it's because conservatives don't understand government and they don't understand power.
Conservatives think that the government exists as an entity and its job is to limit its own power.
This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, ever, possibly the stupidest thing that's ever been said.
The government exists to protect people from each other.
Read Hobbes.
This is the essence of the state.
If in practice, free speech is now gravitated towards the public square, the government has an obligation to make sure that I can say what I'm supposed to say.
And if anyone disagrees with that, then they should not be allowed to say things because they're now posing an active semantic threat against what I'm trying to say.
Government's Role Clarified00:03:02
And so they should be re-educated, probably in Canada.
You know, when I take power, we'll negotiate some sort of deal there.
We'll send, because they're not sending our best to America.
So we'll send them to Canada.
They can go, you know, to Northern Ontario and get re-educated or something like that in exchange for a visa for our good friend Andrew says.
Thank you.
I think we solved a lot of cultural issues today.
We might have to make this a regular segment, a regular panel.
Final words, John, anything you want to add about Vince stealing your flow, your talking points?
You know, I can't really blame them for it.
I mean, to a certain extent, politics is about borrowing, and I'm not ego-invested in this.
You know, I don't have golden skyscrapers with my name at the top yet.
So I don't mind it.
You know, even if you look at someone like Ann Coulter, I mean, Ann Coulter is, in my opinion, probably one of the most influential pundits in all of political history, at least in the last century or so.
I mean, you look at every political book that's published now, it's always one word titled and then with a subtitle that's, you know, explaining why that one word exists.
That was her.
I mean, all of her books that were all New York Times bestsellers, she's the one that pioneered that.
And a lot of people are sort of co-opting her style.
Now, I'm not Ann Coulter because I'm not a woman, but I have a very infectious personality.
You know, I'm funny, I'm charming, I'm charismatic.
And people like Vince Dow, well, you know, there are things in the works behind the scenes, Andrew.
You really have to trust the plan.
And people like Vince Dow, who they're not that funny, they're not that smart, they're not that charismatic, they have to sort of sort of co-opt that.
And I understand that because, you know, what Vince Dow does bring to the table is the fact that he has a silly name and he's Vietnamese.
And we need that going forward because in a couple decades, we're probably going to get conquered by the Chinese.
And I need allies like Vince Dow vouching for me so that I don't get genocided by our Chinese allies who at that point will probably greet as liberators.
So I'm a big Vince Dow fan.
I've endorsed Vince Dow nationalism since day one.
He's a friend of mine.
I'm a friend of his.
And, you know, Andrew's trying to stoke these brother wars.
No more brother wars, I will say, between Vince Dow and myself.
So as the older brother, it's my job.
Is that the long and short of it, Vince, or rebuttal before we go?
I agree.
However, our good friend Red Ego Politics actually has a conspiracy theory about this, which is the fact that I don't know.
You may have heard some rumblings of John having a new car.
Well, that new car is actually a DeLorean, and it actually goes back in time to steal my takes.