Dr. Dennis Modry argues Alberta’s separatism stems from federal policies like the 1980 National Energy Policy, which diverted billions to Quebec, and Premier Jason Kenney’s COVID-19 restrictions, calling them "Orwellian." He dismisses Ottawa’s indifference—115 years of "tyranny of democracy"—and predicts rising support for independence, citing parties like WIPA (7,500 members) and economic grievances. A referendum could force change, but Alberta must first clarify its vision: full sovereignty or autonomy, while leveraging global frameworks like the UN’s 1982 Law of the Sea to address trade barriers. Modry’s past proposals, including a 61-page refederation plan, show Kenney’s conflicted stance, yet separatist momentum may grow as economic and healthcare benefits align with Western demands for self-determination. [Automatically generated summary]
Dr. Dennis Modry On Alberta's Pandemic Response00:05:23
Oh hello rebels.
You're listening to a free audio only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show The Gun Show.
Now tonight my guest is Dr. Dennis Modry.
He was on the show a little while ago talking about what he thought were the failures of the province of Alberta's pandemic response and when he was on the show he hinted that he had some opinions about Western separation and I am ready to hear them.
So he's on the show tonight.
If you like listening to the show then I promise you're going to love watching it but in order to watch you need to be a subscriber to Rebel News Plus.
That's what we call our long-form TV style shows here on Rebel News.
Subscribers get access to my show as well as Ezra's Nightly Ezra Levant show and David Menzies' fun Friday night show, Rebel Roundup.
And there's actually a fourth show in the mix now.
My friend Andrew Chapados has a brand new show called Andrew Says.
And for all of that, it's only eight bucks a month to subscribe.
And just for our podcast listeners, you can save an extra 10% on a new Rebel News Plus subscription by using the coupon code podcast when you subscribe.
Just go to RebelNewsPlus.com to become a member.
And now please enjoy this free audio-only version of my show.
Is Western separatism the answer to preventing yet another bungled response the next time a pandemic comes along?
A doctor who's already been highly critical of the province's pandemic response?
Sure thinks so.
I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.
Now, a few weeks ago, I had Dr. Dennis Modry on the show.
Dr. Dennis Modri is a highly respected, highly accomplished heart and thoracic surgeon here in Alberta.
He's retired, but he did perform his first heart transplant surgery at just age 34.
I'm clearly not doing enough with my life.
Anyway, when Dr. Modry wrote an open letter to Premier Jason Kenney critical of the province's pandemic response and not just being a critic, but offering a solution and an off-ramp for change, I wanted to hear from him because I felt like he had a very unique perspective in all of this as a doctor.
But there's so much more to Dr. Modry.
He's someone that I would describe as a conservative insider.
He was on Premier Ralph Klein's finance committee when Ralph Klein paid down the Alberta debt to zero.
Modry sat on the finance committees for Premiers Loughed, Getty, Klein, and Stalmack.
And he's also on the Wild Rose Independence Party of Alberta executive board.
So he went from being someone who was working with premiers who were ready to keep Alberta in confederation to now wanting Alberta to leave.
And I wanted to hear more about that.
Last time Dr. Dennis Modri was on my show, he told me that he would be interested in sharing with me his ideas about Western separation and Alberta independence.
And friends, I got a deluge of emails from my viewers saying, Sheila, Sheila, Sheila, when are you having Dr. Modri back on?
So joining me today in an interview we recorded yesterday morning is Dr. Dennis Modry, pandemic response critic and Western separatist.
Joining me now from Calgary is Dr. Dennis Modry.
And many of you will remember that I had Dr. Modri on the show a little while ago to talk about his criticisms of the province's pandemic response and his solutions.
He offered an off-ramp to the government about how to change courses with regard to the pandemic.
They haven't listened to him because the lockdown has gotten far worse in Alberta.
But during that interview, Dr. Modry said that he would be willing to come back on the show to talk about Alberta independence.
And that was very requested.
People were emailing me asking me to have Dr. Dennis Modri back on the show.
So he's been very generous with his time.
He's back on.
Dr. Dennis Modry, thank you so much for joining me.
Delighted to be here once again, Sheila.
Now, before we get into your opinions and your, I guess, solutions for the Alberta independence movement, I wanted to talk to you about what happened over the weekend here in Alberta because you and I were both there at the whistle stop for the protest on Saturday.
Chris In Jail00:03:42
And Chris Scott, the owner of the whistle stop, was ultimately arrested for breaching the restraining order that the province got against him and Glenn Carrot of United We Roll and ultimately all of us, you and me, because we are unnamed Jane and John Does in that restraining order preventing us from promoting, organizing, or attending what the province calls illegal public gatherings,
which is the Orwellian term they're using to describe political protests and peaceful assembly these days.
I just wanted to get your opinion on what happened at the whistle stop and I guess what's happening to Chris now, because as we're recording this on Tuesday morning, he's still in jail.
Right.
Well, you know, obviously, to most right-thinking people, people shouldn't be jailed for expressing their views.
And after all, we do have constitutional laws that protect our freedoms and our rights to free speech and to assembly.
And so this was certainly a tremendous breach of those civil rights, no question about that.
And the argument with respect to containing COVID-19 by preventing an assembly like this just doesn't hold water with respect to the data.
And this is all going to play out in court, of course, over time.
The class action lawsuit has been launched in Canada.
The Supreme Court has agreed to hear it.
And so we'll see where all of this goes.
But as I've always said, follow the evidence.
And what does the evidence tell you?
And this is one of those areas in terms of following the evidence where many politicians, the Premier, Dr. Henshaw, et cetera, are not following the evidence.
They're following their preconceived views based on historical evidence.
And that evidence has been proven to be spectacularly inaccurate, as exactly what the premier said with respect to about Teresa Tan, releasing modeling that time after time is spectacularly inaccurate is not a great way to instill confidence in the public.
But this is what has happened.
And so to a very large extent, Dr. Henshaw, the Premier, the government, and many people in the public have a really great problem with what is cognitive dissonance, that inability to change their mind based on new evidence.
And so I think it's tragic that Pastor Pulowski was even jailed, particularly in the manner that had happened, which is really offensive by any stretch of the imagination.
And then with Chris still being in jail, I'm quite, I mean, I don't know.
I haven't spoken to him or anything, but it's very likely that he's standing up for his civil rights, his freedom, and he's not going to accept whatever criteria have been imposed on him were the case for him to be released.
I don't believe he's willing to accept that, which is why he's still in jail and Pastor Pulowski is not.
Tragic Jails, Maverick Standoffs00:06:00
I mean, we all get to a breaking point in terms of what we're willing to do and not do.
And I just think it's tragic what is happening and what is going on.
But there are solutions to this.
Independence is one of them.
Now, I just want to make a point, though, before we move on to independence.
Thank you for that very excellent segue.
But you spoke at the protest at the whistle stop.
And I think the point needs to be made that by speaking at that protest, and you could have been taken off to jail just like Chris was.
And I just want to commend you on your bravery for being, you know, putting yourself out there like that.
Because I think like me, you're probably a little too pretty for jail.
Well, I'm not so sure about that.
I said to my wife before I left, you know, I may or may not be coming home.
And I thought, well, you know, I've never experienced being incarcerated except in my own home because of COVID-19.
And I've objected to that and have rebelled against being incarcerated in my own home.
But I thought if I was, it would be a weight loss fitness program for me while I was there.
So.
Now, Dr. Modri, you mentioned independence, and that's why I wanted to have you on the show.
And part of your speech at the whistle stop over the weekend did touch on that.
First, I want to go back a little bit.
What do you think has led to this fomenting of a Western separatist sentiment?
I think we haven't seen something like this in about 10 or 15 years.
I think the election of Stephen Harper extinguished a lot of it.
What's happening now that's causing it to rise again?
Well, I think there's a number of things.
And before I get into the details on that, you know, it's worthwhile thinking about there is now the Maverick Party, which was formerly Wegs at Canada.
So there's a tremendous view by Westerners that Canada is broken and can't be fixed.
And there are hundreds of thousands of of members, maybe millions now, who have signed on to the Wexit Canada concept, whether it be through the, the Maverick Party or the Provincial Independence Parties.
So you and you look at what's happened in Saskatchewan with the development of the Buffalo Party, which is an Independence Party, having been in um, uh prior to the last election.
They were only operational for three months, but they came very close to winning the ridings they were competing in, yep so.
And then you look in Alberta there's the Alberta Advantage Party, the um, the Alberta Independence Party.
I guess it's the Independence Party OF Alberta.
Now they changed their name uh, the WILD ROSE Independence Party OF Alberta, and um, these parties are growing their, their memberships and eventually I think they will come together at some point prior to the next election.
And then we have also in northern B.C., discontent with Vancouver, Victoria, southern B.C., if you will.
And there's a movement there as well, even as much as aligning itself with with Alberta.
And I think, you know, realistically, if independence is is is going to occur, it probably would start with Alberta because I think it's as the youngest demographic.
And it's probably harboring.
the greatest anger against the draconian policies of the east, suppressing Alberta, and so there's a lot that I can say about um.
You know why we are here where we are now, but fundamentally I think it's both economic related, with a whole bunch of related problems to the problem with the economy, and I think it's uh, now even accelerated because of the response of government to managing covet 19 or poorly managing it in the way they have undertaken thus far.
So um, does that sufficiently start off?
The it does.
It does.
I think a lot of people are western separatist.
Um, as you know, just in the way of economic survival, they see the federal government basically legislating them out of a job, landlocking the industry, attacking the industry, and i'm not just talking about oil and gas, i'm also talking about the neglect of agriculture.
And every time Justin Trudeau goes to India, Canadian farmers get slapped with a tariff on their exports to India.
But I do think a lot, a lot of people now, especially during this last year or 14 months, with response like they are moving into the separatist camp um, because of the response to Covid by the federal government, but also, I think, in large part in response to uh, the Covid regulations Placed on us by Jason Kenney, who is an avowed federalist.
So, some of that, I think, too, is backlash to Jason Kenney as well.
So, so let me let me pose this question and then answer it.
Okay, please.
So, the question is: why independence?
Why Independence?00:15:39
Okay, so I want to start off that way.
Why independence?
The first thing people need to understand is that throughout Alberta's history, no federal government or provincial government has ever been able to protect Alberta's interests or assure Alberta's future prosperity.
And the way to think about the evolution from being part of Canada to not being part of Canada starts off with an understanding of just prior to Alberta's joining Confederation on September 1,
1905, it's important to put in context what the purpose was of Alberta joining Confederation at that time.
And so, I don't misquote.
I want to make reference to what the Interior Minister Clifford Sifton said.
He was the Minister of Interior and in the Sir Wilfrid Laurier Liberal government in the late 1800s, early 1900s.
And he was fundamentally responsible for bringing Alberta into Confederation.
And he said in 1904, just prior to Alberta joining Canada, he said, We desire, in fact, every patriotic Canadian desires that the great trade of the prairies shall go to enrich our own people in the East, to build up our factories and our workshops of Eastern Canada and contribute in every legitimate way to its prosperity.
Now, although he may have meant well, he assumed that Western interests would be subordinated to those of the East as just the natural order of things.
Right.
And fast forward to today, Justin Trudeau's throne speech endorsed that view without even Sifton's legitimate nod to the idea that the relationship should be mutually beneficial.
So we've seen that, in fact, over time, it has not been mutually beneficial, maybe in some ways, partially, etc.
But when you go from Alberta's union with Canada in September 1, 1905, and you look at what happened over the ensuing decades, it was pretty impressive because the immigrants that came here and the people that were already here, our native population, were incredibly hard workers.
They had that work ethic, they were entrepreneurial, and they were building Alberta.
And they were building Alberta at a rate that was exceeding many of the other regions in Canada to the extent that by the late 70s, there were two momentous things that were occurring within Canada.
One of them was the developing sentiment in Quebec for secession.
That was an extremely important development that was underway in the late 70s.
Secondly, was the massive demographic shift that was occurring from elsewhere in Canada to Alberta, as well as Alberta becoming the economic center of power.
And all of the major banks were moving their head offices to Calgary.
That was the intention.
The province was absolutely booming.
And so we all know what happened.
in 1980.
And no matter what you think of Pierre Elliott Trudeau and his finance minister at that particular time, Mark Lalonde, along with Bay Street and Montreal, they came up with a brilliant plan, an absolutely brilliant plan.
They were going to keep Quebec in Canada by buying them, by basically bribing them to stay in Canada.
And they were going to use the source of that bribe was going to be Alberta's wealth.
And that was the genesis of the national energy policy.
And so in perpetuity, billions of dollars flows from Alberta.
And as you know, it's somewhere in the order of $640 or $50 billion now has flown out of Alberta since 1980, of which the majority has gone to Quebec.
And no matter what the output is from Alberta, Quebec is guaranteed $10 billion.
Now, it's very important to understand that what the purpose of the national energy policy was.
It was not just to keep Quebec in Canada.
It was also to ensure that in perpetuity, Alberta could never rise up again and challenge the East for economic power, demographic or economic power.
And we've seen how that has played out within the Constitution, for example.
We do not have representation by population, either in the House of Commons or the Senate.
It's incredibly skewed in favor of the East.
Even the Supreme Court is a problem from the perspective that you've got three judges from Quebec, three from Ontario, two from the West, one from the East.
Even that doesn't pass muster with respect to a demographic fairness in terms of justices.
But it didn't matter that the National Energy Policy occurred at that time from this perspective.
Although there were thousands of businesses that went under and there were suicides, businesses left the province or went under, like I said, despite all of that, some things started to occur.
And it's only related to that entrepreneurial spirit that Albertans have and their hard work ethic that the economy started to rebound again.
And particularly with respect to the Klein government, it was quite amazing what had happened.
Because as you know, when he left office, we had a surplus budget.
I think the government had 33 billion in assets and 17 billion in cash.
The Heritage Trust Fund was topped up, etc.
We were in great shape.
We had a AAA bond rating.
Now, throughout the Getty era and the Klein era and the Stellmack era, I was privileged to be on the finance committees of those three conservative governments.
And I got to know Ralph extremely well.
But despite the fact that Alberta was doing well in 2003, I had an idea.
And I had this idea because I didn't ever want to see a national energy policy type problem occur again.
And I also had this idea because there was this ongoing dysfunctional relationship between Alberta and Ottawa, between Klein and Cretchin.
So at the annual general meeting of the provincial government in 2003 in Redder, I was walking with Ralph, just the two of us, and I told him about the idea that I had.
And I said to him, I said, Ralph, if you were the, no, I said, I've got a solution, I think, to the dysfunctional relationship between Alberta and Ottawa.
Would you like to hear about it?
And he said, yeah, absolutely.
And I said, okay, well, it's based on this question.
If you were the president or the prime minister of the sovereign country of Alberta in Canada came to you and said, we would like Alberta to join Confederation under the current terms and cost of membership.
Terms in which, for example, we don't have control of health care, we're losing control of our environment, and we've got billions every year that are going to Ottawa.
Under the current terms and cost of membership, would you want Alberta to join?
And I loved his answer because it stuck with me forever until the day I die.
He said, to ask the question is to know the answer.
Of course not.
So that was a great segue for me to then say, Ralph, if you wouldn't join Alberta under the current, join Canada under the current terms and cost of membership, do you not think that you and caucus have an ethical, a moral, and an economic responsibility to fix Alberta's role in Confederation?
He said, yes.
And I said, okay, well, I've drafted some material.
Let me put it all together and I'll bring it to your attention.
So in August of that year, I completed the document that I had run through academics like Ted Morton, constitutional lawyers like Jerry Shapur, politicians such as Don Mazinkowski and Gary Maher and many others, and numerous business people.
There's about 100 people that reviewed the document, made suggestions.
And I titled the document, Alberta at the Crossroads, Status Quo Refederation Autonomy.
It's 61 pages.
Happy to send it to anybody, send it to you, and you can send it to anybody who would like to read it.
But the purpose of that document was to give Ralph and his government what he needed to fix Alberta's role in Confederation.
And if he was unable to fix Alberta's role in Confederation, then there was an alternative solution, which was autonomy.
And how would you get to that point?
What is the lever that you need to fix Alberta's role in Confederation?
There is only one, and that is a referendum on secession that is successful.
That is the only way it will happen.
Now, let me fast forward to where we are now.
We've seen what is likely to come in the future.
Justin Trudeau has stated that he wants to phase out our oil and gas industry.
That is so ridiculous, despite what all the climate alarmists are saying, because we're never going to be without a need for the hydrocarbon industry.
As I've pointed out before, there are over 6,000 products that emanate from the oil and gas industry.
We would go back to the Stone Age without it.
Now, in October of this year coming up, our Premier is going to have, at least he has said that he is going to have a referendum on equalization.
And it's pretty obvious that Albertans are not real happy about equalization.
And he will get a mandate from Albertans to take this request of the federal government to open the Constitution to change equalization.
Now, if you think about that and you understand anything about what is necessary to achieve that change to the Constitution, it requires support by vote in the House of Commons, support by vote in the Senate, and it requires seven of 10 provinces' legislatures.
Now, understand that seven of 10 provinces' legislatures representing 50% of the population also voting in favor.
Well, the demographic for voting power is Eastern Canada.
It also requires one other thing, and that's for Quebec not to veto it, because in the Constitution, the way it's set with respect to equalization, they're guaranteed $10 billion a year out of Alberta.
Well, we're seeing what's happening with the gutting of our economy.
So it's simply impossible to achieve the second objective of that paper that I drafted, status quo, refederation, autonomy.
Refederation, meaning fixing Alberta's role in confederation.
This is what Jason would like to do.
And I admire the idea, but if he's unwilling to put independence on the table and achieve a mandate from Albertans, it's impossible, in my opinion, to change the Constitution to benefit Alberta, Saskatchewan, and the West in general.
So that is why I've come to the conclusion that independence is the only path forward.
So the next question you're probably thinking to ask me, and interrupt me at any time, is how would we achieve that?
How would we achieve that?
Yes, that's exactly the next question.
I wanted to know the how, because as you rightly point out, there's a lot of posturing from Jason Kenney all the time about fixing the relationship with Ottawa, standing up to Ottawa, but there's never an or else on the table.
So how do we get to the or else?
Well, exactly.
That's the point.
And I remind the listeners as well that no federal government and no provincial government has ever been able to protect Alberta's interests or assure Alberta's future prosperity.
So to think that Mr. Kenney is going to be able to do that by being a nice person and using logic, it just isn't gonna work.
He needs the economic clout that comes with Alberta being able to control all of its own affairs.
And it can only happen if Alberta has a referendum on independence.
So now, how can this happen?
Pensions and Independence00:15:11
Well, as someone who was the major co-author of what you see on the website of the Wild Rose Independence Party in terms of the founding principles, the purpose, the vision, the mission, and the policies, it's pretty easy for me to speak to this.
So fundamentally, what is required to achieve independence is for the independence movement to be able to inform,
educate, engage, and inspire all Albertans on the rationale for independence, the merits of independence, how we would make it happen, and how we would assuage the concerns of those people who would be concerned about Alberta independence.
And if you will, what has been drafted is the algorithm to achieve those objectives.
It's quite lengthy, but if I were to boil it down, what it would require, for example, would be for the three independence parties of Alberta to come together under one banner.
And I think for those people who are independence-minded, they're virtually demanding that that occur.
How it will occur with respect to the various boards is another matter, but I hope there's enough goodwill for that to take place.
Either prior to a merger such as that or with the three of them working independently together, what is required is for the independence movement to influence several hundred thousand people in Alberta to buy into independence as the only path forward to improve their quality of life,
to be the best place to start a business, start a family, and live life with freedom and self-determination.
So one of the things that has to happen is that hundreds of thousands of people need to align themselves with the independence movement.
Pick your party.
Personally, I think WIPA is way ahead of everybody else.
The Wild Rose Independence Party of Alberta is way ahead of everybody else.
I think there are around 7,500 members at this point in time, and it's been growing fairly rapidly.
So I'm very pleased with that.
But apart from that, all of the CAs need to be set up, the constituency associations.
And again, this begs the question of the three parties coming together.
But finally, it requires resources.
People have to be willing to support the independence movement, because how do you get the message out to all Albertans with respect to the rationale for independence, the merits of independence, how we'll make it happen, and how to assuage the concerns?
How do you get that message out when the mainstream media doesn't carry it?
So you're going to need billboards and taking out advertisements and papers, newspapers, whatever is required to buy time within the mainstream media.
And media such as Rebel News and the Western Standard and True North, et cetera, are doing a fantastic job, but they have a limited readership.
I mean, it's large, but it doesn't get to all Albertans.
And Alberta has to be the region that leads the independence movement in Canada in terms of Western Canada, in my opinion.
So it takes signing up members and it takes resources to get that message out.
And that's how it can happen.
There's a lot more detail in there, you know.
And one of the things that I get challenged with from time to time is, well, how do you deal with certain issues such as being landlocked or how do you deal with vote splitting, et cetera, et cetera?
And there are 15 items or 15 points that we've identified for which we have what I think are very cogent responses.
So they're not all firmly fixed in my head, but I have them here.
It's just that it would take a long time to go through all of that.
Sure.
I was thinking about that the other day with regard to the Alberta independence movement.
We get a lot of people saying, well, but what do you do about this?
And what do you do about that?
And looking back, the Quebec independence movement, they sort of addressed all those how, the fine details of how, and they got their movement to the point of, well, do they really want to stay or do they really want to go?
They had taken care of all the, what do we do about the RCMP?
What do we do about the military that are stationed here?
Should we vote for independence?
What do we do about the pension plan?
They already dealt with that.
So I guess my question is, when people ask those questions, are we ready to give those answers to the point where that it's not even a question anymore?
Because it became at some point not a question when dealing with Quebec.
Yes, I absolutely think so.
I think the arguments in favor of independence in terms of dealing with all of those 15 points are very cogent, very easy to understand, and are very persuasive.
And the point that I'm getting at here is that messaging needs to get out and it will get out.
And I mean, really, what more can we do?
You know, let's take, for example, just a couple of things.
Take pensions, for example.
People are concerned about their pensions.
They don't need to be concerned about their pensions.
For example, right now we're overpaying into the Canadian pension plan 3 billion a year, which is not recognized as pension funds eligible for Albertans.
It just goes to the general caucus.
So we're overpaying pensions.
But people who are pensioners, they will still get their pension because what we don't know yet is in negotiating the final terms of separation, does for people who have Canada pension plan right now and old age security, do they want to just keep it from Canada?
Or will Canada negotiate with Alberta and say, you guys take it back?
Will give you X amount of money, which is your component of it.
And then Alberta runs the Alberta pension plan and the Alberta Old Age Security Plan, but has more money to put into it.
So those negotiations haven't taken place yet.
But for example, if a retired individual simply wants to keep their Canada pension plan and their old age security, it doesn't matter if they're living in France or they're living in South Africa, they're living in China or they're living in Alberta.
They're still going to get their pension, even if Alberta is a sovereign nation.
So when you think about it from that point of view, people don't need to be concerned about pensions.
Just as one example.
Sure.
And I think the other example people use a lot is: oh, well, you know, Alberta's landlocked.
And for me, I look at that and say, well, I'd much rather have a sovereign Alberta negotiating with the United States for pipeline access than have it go through Justin Trudeau's ineptitude.
Well, let's take that one and I'll give you all of the arguments against that because I think, you know, we could go through all 15 concerns, such as landlocked vote splitting, pensions, collection of taxes, engagement of the indigenous population, abortion, consolidating the independence parties, supremacy of God, family and business, travel, firearms, etc., policing and military, possible flight of business and capital, etc.
We could drill down on all of those, but let's just talk about being landlocked.
So we're already land/slash policy locked, right?
It's both, but we're mainly policy-locked right now because we can't get our natural resources to tidewater with, as we've seen because of Bill C-69 and Bill C-48.
Now, you're right, most trade goes south.
So the next thing is, is it wouldn't really be in Ottawa's interest to effectively embargo Alberta, as much as leftist governments on Ottawa and several provinces might protest, they still need Alberta's energy.
Without it, energy prices across Canada would certainly skyrocket.
And we're going to see that with respect to, I think it's the colonial pipeline in the U.S. that was hacked.
And there's gas stations down there right now that are on that line.
And a whole bunch of states are on that line.
Can't get fuel to allow people to come and fill their car up.
Anyhow, as an independent nation, Alberta would have the legal and political right to play hardball with Ottawa to force market access.
As a province, all Alberta can do is complain.
Fear tactics to quell Western sentiment for independence.
Well, that's definitely going to be used.
But at the same time, you know, we just have to not be fearful.
We can't be worse off than we are now.
I mean, like I said, we're already policy locked.
So how can it get worse?
We know that the intention is to shut down the Alberta oil and gas industry.
So if we do nothing, that is exactly what is going to happen.
So who knows how negotiations would go following independence for Alberta?
Personally, I think they would go very well.
Thanks to the First Nations, if Canada is divisible, then provinces are as well.
For example, if the population north and east of Hope BC voted for independence, would the southwest population and Vancouver Island residents deny the northwest to access ports at Prince Rupert, Kitamat and Stewart?
This would give Alberta port access if we were independent.
The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea in 1982 provided rights for landlocked states to the sea, Articles 124 and 125.
International law does provide leverage.
Take Switzerland, for example.
Landlocked country has no problem getting its products.
If it's necessary to deal with an intransigent Canada or British Columbia, we can always block East and West traffic of goods and services and people.
But again, this gets to the point, it doesn't serve anybody's good doing that.
We could also be assisted, although I'm not sure where we are with this anymore, by certain U.S. regions with respect to Keystone, as well as access to tidewater via the Gulf of Alaska.
But, you know, the final point is it's sort of the definition of insanity.
You know, given that no federalist Alberta government has ever been able to protect Alberta's interests, like I said before, a vote for the UCP or the NDP will simply perpetuate the ongoing destruction of our economy and the devastation of Alberta's livelihoods until we really truly are a have-not province.
And I think only an independent Alberta can reverse that trend.
And is there a chance, is there a slim chance that we could remain in Canada?
Yeah, there's a slim chance.
But do we want to remain in Canada as an impoverished region or do we want to remain in Canada as a full partner where we control our own destiny and we have control of our natural resources?
We have the ability to be more competitive with respect to how we provide health care at less cost with greater access.
And the only way to improve Alberta's role in confederation, really, is if you have the hammer of a mandate from Albertans on independence.
That's the only lever that we have that will bring them to the table.
Bending down and begging on, bending down on one knee or even two knees and begging for help isn't going to cut it.
Look at what Jason did when he asked for $6 billion back.
He got $700 million.
And this kind of thing is going on and on and on.
And it has for the last 115 years.
And I don't see why it will change.
The interests of the East will always subordinate the interests of the West.
And there's not a thing that we can do about it.
It's really the tyranny of democracy, where the voting power is in the East, and there's not a thing we can do about it.
This next election will be really fascinating to see.
A provincial election will be fascinating to see what, well, federal first, because the federal one is coming.
But I will predict that the Liberal Party won't get one vote out of Saskatchewan or Alberta.
No.
No, I don't think so either.
And it won't matter one bit to the Liberals.
And that's the problem with Confederation.
Now, I guess the question remains, will our own government allow us to ask this question of ourselves?
Should we stay or should we go?
You mean the UCP government?
Yeah.
Well, you know something?
I thought about this.
Should We Stay or Go?00:06:05
And, you know, one of the meetings that I had with Jason Kenney prior to the last provincial election, we met at the mark and I brought two documents to give him.
One was the document that I drafted for Ralph, Alberta's role, improving Alberta's role in Confederation status quo, Refederation Autonomy.
That 61-page document I gave to him.
And I also discussed with him the question that I posed to Ralph as well.
And I gave him a document about Medicare is killing us, re-engineering the Canadian healthcare system.
And at that particular time, I thought that Jason was far more strategic than, and maybe I'm missing something here, but than what I've seen so far.
But he is a master politician.
So think about what happens over the course of the next 18 months.
Let's say, for example, the Wild Rose Independence Party has signed up 300 or 400,000 members to it.
Now, when the UCP party was elected, I think they had 130,000 members.
But what would he think if there were 300 or 400,000 members signed up with the Wild Rose Independence Party?
So being a master strategist, a master strategist, and I think he is a pretty good strategist, he could simply say after the equalization referendum, which he will win, but he won't get any traction with Ottawa.
I'm convinced of that.
He could simply come to Alberta, Albertans, and say, you know what, folks, I've tried my best to fix our relationship with Canada.
I've tried my best to fix equalization.
They're not willing to do anything about it.
I've come to a point where I believe that our only path forward or that we have to take a new path forward outside of Confederation.
I mean, he could get to that point.
Sure.
But whether he will or not, I just don't think he will.
I mean, he is an avowed federalist.
But, you know, it's like I say, take the whole concept of cognitive dissonance, the inability to change your mind based on new information.
Does he have cognitive dissonance?
With respect to moving on COVID-19, it would appear that he's been conflicted, right?
Because sometimes he said, well, you know, we made a mistake on lockdowns, but here he is again.
So does he have cognitive dissonance with respect to the whole concept of independence?
Maybe, but maybe he could overcome that and recognize that independence is really the best path forward for Alberta.
I can't say.
You know, half the time I don't know what I'm thinking.
Never mind what he's thinking.
So anyhow, I don't know if that sufficiently answers your question regarding the current government.
There are people in caucus that I know of that are very strong supporters of independence.
And maybe not so much as independence from the perspective of leaving the Commonwealth, but they very much are with respect to leaving Canada.
Yes, I've heard that too in some private conversations with some members of Jason Kenney's caucus.
That, and they're like anything, there's a diversity of views on what independence means.
Does it mean more autonomy within Canada?
Well, I think that's that ship has sailed, but Ottawa is never going to let us have that.
Does it mean joining the United States?
Does it mean leaving the Commonwealth?
Does it mean being an independent country within the Commonwealth?
I think those are all discussions that people will have, I think, within the separatist movement, I think, probably over the next 18 months to two years.
Dr. Dennis Modry, thank you for being so generous with your time.
I think we're approaching about 50 minutes together.
Once again, it's wonderful.
I have to do very little talking and a lot of listening, which is great for me.
You have a lot to say, and it's very fascinating.
I wonder what we can have you on next to talk about.
Well, I don't know.
I mean, how COVID-19 can screw up a retirement.
That would be one I can speak well to.
I don't know.
I think it's going to be an ongoing evolution with respect not only to COVID-19 and with respect to independence.
And, you know, certainly, you know, it would be not unreasonable to talk in more detail about things pertaining to the rationale for independence, the merits of independence,
you know, how people's lives can be dramatically improved at every single level and how independence even appeals to people who are within the NDP and the unions.
I mean, you know, workers want jobs, unions want employees who have jobs.
What generates that?
A booming economy?
What's the best way to achieve that?
And so I think the answers to a very large extent to all of this can be a subject for another conversation.
Workers Want Jobs00:00:57
I look forward to it.
Thank you so much for your time today, Dr. Modri.
Great.
Thanks a lot, Sheila.
Thanks.
All the best.
and goodbye everybody the independence movement in alberta has a bit of a communication problem right now and And in Quebec, they were able to get past the how of how it would all happen to be able to ask the question.
And I think that's the stage the separatist movement is at in Alberta.
People are asking how.
And if they are able to answer those questions, then I think it's time to ask the question: should we stay or should we go?
Well, friends, that's the show for tonight.
Thank you, as always, for tuning in.
I'll see everybody back here or wherever I might be, but at the same time next week.