Sheila Gunn-Reed and Robbie Picard critique Joe Biden’s Keystone XL cancellation, calling it predictable after Obama’s 2015 rejection and framing it as a "radical green socialist" move. Picard warns Alberta’s oil sector faces "a thousand cuts," with 10% of Fort McMurray businesses already closed, while Gunn-Reed highlights job losses in construction hubs like Hardesty. Indigenous support for pipelines grows amid concerns over foreign oil’s environmental standards, but Picard dismisses green energy as "not so green." With Biden and Trudeau escalating climate policies—like Line 5 shutdowns and potential meat taxes—working-class Canadians risk economic fallout, forcing Alberta to pivot toward Asian markets like China. The episode underscores the oil industry’s struggle against foreign-funded environmental groups and political polarization, leaving advocates like Picard fighting for survival amid shifting global priorities. [Automatically generated summary]
Hello Rebels, you're listening to a free audio-only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show, The Gun Show.
Tonight, my guest is Robbie Picard from Oil Sands Strong, and we're talking about how awful Joe Biden is and his big plan to cancel the Keystone XL pipeline, which he obviously campaigned on.
So I don't know why everybody's surprised by his day one decision to cancel it.
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So I think Joe Biden is president.
So now what?
What does this mean for Alberta?
I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.
Well, Joe Biden might actually be one of those rare politicians, very rare, that actually does what he says he's going to do.
And normally, that's kind of a good thing, keeping your word.
But in this instance, it's going to be an absolute nightmare for us here in Alberta because Joe Biden says that he's going to cancel the Keystone XL pipeline.
This should all come as absolutely no surprise to anybody who's been paying even the loosest amount of attention here.
Biden was part of the Obama administration that repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly blocked the pipeline from Alberta to the Gulf.
Biden campaigned on blocking Keystone XL.
He would not shut up about it.
He picked an anti-Keystone XL running mate named Kamala Harris.
So when I see politicians and in particular conservative politicians who just couldn't get past their personal dislike for Trump's personality to realize that Trump was the best president for Alberta and therefore the best president for Canada now expressing sadness and disappointment and feigning being caught completely off guard by the cancellation of the pipeline.
Well, what did you people think Biden was going to do?
Based on his running mate selection, he's now beholden to the radical green socialist wing of the Democrat Party, which I think has basically taken over the entire Democrat Party at this point.
Anyway, this is really, really bad news for the oil patch and for Alberta, and in particular, Hardesty and Oyan, the two construction hub towns for Keystone XL.
And another canceled pipeline means more layoffs in the patch.
So joining me now to discuss all this and so much more is my good friend, Robbie Picard from Oil Sands Strong.
interview we recorded Tuesday afternoon.
Joining me now from Fort McMurray in his truck because he's a small business owner and he's always working to tell the stories of small businesses and industry in Fort McMurray is Robbie Picard from Oil Sand Strong.
Hey, Robbie, thanks for joining me.
I wanted to have you on the show, first of all, because, well, because Joe Biden is going to do something seriously devastating to the Alberta economy.
And it's something that he promised us that he would do.
So I don't know why everybody seems so shocked and disappointed.
We should have, I mean, it's why I'm pro-Trump is because he was a lifeline for Alberta.
But Joe Biden said that on the first day of his presidency, which we're filming this on Tuesday, so I suppose that starts tomorrow.
He will rescind the Keystone XL pipeline permit.
Again, this should come as no shock to us.
He was part of the administration or the Obama administration that blocked Keystone and he campaigned on canceling it.
So I don't know.
I just want to hear your thoughts because I mean, you live, eat, sleep, and breathe.
The oil and gas industry, you're oil sand strong.
What does the future hold for us?
Well, you know, I'm actually going to be brutally critical of ourselves.
We knew this was coming.
He said it was coming.
Obama got rid of it the first time.
And, you know, there's no guarantee that Trump was going to get back in.
So why are we acting surprised?
I know so many people, oil executives that I was talking to and say, well, you know, Biden, he's just saying that to get elected.
And, you know, it's going to be good because he's going to go after fracking.
And the bottom line is that, you know, what I mean, I know politicians don't typically do what they say they're going to do, but we should have took him at his word.
He's kept his word.
And now we're in a mess.
And I'm not surprised in the least.
I knew this was going to happen.
And I'm shocked bluntly that we put so much into it instead of, you know, like maybe revisiting Energy East or working on the Northern Gateway pipeline or just ensuring that we actually finish the Trans Mountain.
I mean, we spend all this time talking about the Americans, the Americans this, the Americans this, Trump this, Biden that.
And meanwhile, our industry unjustifiably is dying the death of a thousand cuts.
And I mean, I'm, he said he was going to cut it and he did.
And this is just the beginning.
You know, they are going to come after our oil and they're going to paint us with a brush that's not true, like they have for years.
They're a bit empowered right now.
And we need to get ready for it.
And if nothing else, we need to at least ensure that we get our oil to the coast so we have a chance of competing.
I mean, I'm not surprised or shocked.
I'm more shocked how shocked we are that he canceled it.
And I mean, and yes, we can go to court and we can have an endless battle on a pipeline that's been we've been fighting for 10 years.
I wish it was built.
I wish it was finished.
I feel really bad that these people who are tomorrow are going to instantaneously lose their jobs and their hope and their dreams and their future.
And they're going to go through depression in the worst possible time.
And but I'm not one bit surprised and I'm more shocked how reactive we are.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
And we seem to do that here in Canada, in Alberta, all the time.
So I guess my question is: what does this mean for energy investment in Alberta?
What does this mean for projects going forward?
I mean, we're just getting into the heart of the winter drilling season.
And frankly, it's slow out there.
It has been slow for a long time.
But are we ever going to see investment if, first off, we can't get our oil to market here in Canada?
Like, we can't go east or west these days.
And we can't go south.
So what happens to us?
I hope we can finish the Trans Mountain.
And I hope that because now, you know, that there is oil being shipped through the Panama Canal that's ending up on the east coast of Canada, that maybe we could get the Energy East or a pipeline like it.
And I'm happy that so many Indigenous people are supporting pipelines now, like I've never seen.
And they understand this pandemic has scared a lot of people into the realization that oil development is important.
And if we're not going to develop it, countries are going to develop it with horrible human rights records and less environmental centers than we have.
And the realization that green energy isn't so green.
I mean, I think that's coming.
I'm terrible.
I don't believe for a second that this push towards green energy has anything to do with the environment or climate change.
It has to do with this push for socialism.
And I think you're going to see that coming more and more in the days to come.
And I think that's the reality that people want.
There's this impression that universal income is going to help happen.
And somehow this is the avenue used to pick to choose it.
So, but I've been doing this for quite a while.
And I would argue that I've had some of the most success out of pretty much all the advocates.
And I don't know what to do right now.
I really don't.
I mean, like, I, the people that I think, you know, are brilliantly smart at this, like, are, are blowing my mind that they don't see what's coming down the pipe, so to speak.
And we need to be far more intelligent than we have been.
And I'm not surprised.
I'm not shocked about the Keystone pipeline.
I knew that Biden was going to cancel it.
So, I mean, you, I think that like you gotta, you gotta, you gotta work on sure things.
And I mean, right now, the only, the real thing we have to focus on is Transmountain and hope that that gets completed.
And I think it will.
That's looking good.
But I mean, who knows?
Well, for me, I think Transmountain with Biden in power is in serious jeopardy.
And I'll tell you why.
Because I think the foreign-funded interlopers and meddlers who dump money into Canada to block pipelines are going to feel emboldened and empowered because now not only do they have an ally in Justin Trudeau, but they also have fierce allies throughout the entire Biden administration.
And I'm worried that it's just going to be a free-for-all blocking Canadian energy projects.
Well, you know, I mean, I agree with you.
And it's been like that since we started.
The only hope I have is that we're used to it and Trans Mountain is on our side of the border.
But yeah, I'm worried.
I'm worried.
I'm worried what is coming down what's coming down the pipe.
And I'm also, I think that it's insane.
And I think that we have to honestly, you know, I don't know what we have to do, but we have to take this more seriously.
And like, I mean, the second that Biden even Had a chance like before Trump, you know, when Biden, I guess, won that night, or they thought he was going to be president, they should have had a team of people there immediately trying to work on this.
Um, I'm not sure what Trans Mountain's doing.
I think that these pipeline companies and these oil companies need to get a little bit more savvy in their communications and understand that this is a different world and it's not.
I mean, and I mean, I don't fault them completely.
They're in the pipeline business.
And I think that the Keystone Pipeline-I sorry, I meant to say keys, or the Keystone Pipeline is a very safe and a good energy-efficient pipeline that is, you know, net zero emissions.
But they're just saying that now.
That should have been on every billboard across the whole pipeline two years ago.
So I have no idea what to make of it.
I mean, I'm just we'll have to take it one step at a time day by day, but I mean, it's definitely going to be interesting.
Now, I'm concerned that our energy companies are going to do more of the same.
The social license nonsense, the cooperating with the far-left radicals who want to shut them down in an effort to, I don't know, curry their favor, get them to lay off.
I'm worried they're going to do more of that.
We saw it here during Rachel Notley's time as premier, and it didn't get anybody anywhere.
And I'm worried we're going to see more of that.
And you work in advocacy messaging.
So I guess I'll ask you: how effective has that strategy been?
Because I don't see any good that ever came of it.
Well, I would argue a little bit, though, in Notley's defense in the early stages that when she decided to go a little bit pro-pipeline, she was able to talk to a group of people that the oil companies and the conservatives couldn't quite reach.
I don't know what the answer is now, but the way I see it now is that all of our strategies have to change, and we need to find a center approach, a common sense approach that people understand that oil and gas development benefits everybody.
Finding Common Ground00:09:05
And I'm personally going to try to make it like I used to be very nonpartisan and work with all the parties.
And I think we leaned a little bit more conservative lately.
I'm going to try to push myself back a little bit and just try to talk to regular people, no matter what political way they vote, and say, look, this is in our best interest for the future and the sovereignty of our country.
And it is important that we find common ground.
And I'm going to try so hard to find common ground.
It's hard because we have never been more polarized in history.
We've never, we've never, I don't think we've ever seen a time like that's so bizarre.
And like, I'll touch on the capital, the riots a little bit.
Sure.
I was blown away by the incompetence and arrogance and slight narcissism of Anderson Cooper.
The way he spoke to, you know, basically said these guys are all going to go back to the olive garden and the holiday inn, like there's something wrong with the olive garden or the holiday inn.
It goes to show that no one on either side of the spectrum is listening and understanding the root cause of the division in our world right now.
And it's coming to Canada too.
There's a group of people that feel not listened to, not understood.
And they, right or wrong, they rallied behind Trump and they got, they felt that he was listening and hearing them.
And now it's gone back to the silence, the cancel culture.
You're never going to heal if we don't start finding a middle of a ground approach.
And I'm personally going to work really hard at that.
Not easy, but we have to start listening to each other and sitting down and talking.
Because if we don't, I mean, we're going to be screwed.
Instantaneously, Biden just destroyed the lives of a bunch of people because of that pipeline.
Those people now are going to go home.
They're going to be jobless.
They're going to be worried how they're going to pay their mortgage.
That little town of Oyan is going to basically become a ghost town again.
And all the hopes and dreams.
So canceling the pipeline isn't so simple as some woke person thinking that he or she is doing some sort of world of good in the world.
You just devastated the lives of a bunch of people on both sides of the border.
And I understand that there's this notion for mass debt right now and payments and all this type of stuff.
But eventually our economies are going to have to rebuild.
And let's just be honest, you look at the so-called green energy in Europe and Germany and all these places and these solar power plants, they've all shut down.
Like, once again, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, different, expecting different results.
And I don't know if we have the intelligence or the wherewithal to actually get better.
Now, I can tell you that on the side of oil stands, that they constantly get better.
They're sort of a continuous state of Kaisen, which means continuous improvement.
I'm not quite sure.
And I'm not even going to say it doesn't happen on the other side on the solar powder green energy.
But all I know is both sides need to work together.
And we need to come up with solutions for the ever-changing world.
And we're not.
Where everyone is polarized and it's just not good.
And our prime minister, like, I mean, like, if you're going to support a pipeline, then support it.
Like, we need, like, this key, you know, as far as I'm concerned, I mean, let's barring some miracle Keystone is done.
What do we do now?
And now is the time where we realize that we need to be energy independent and we need to look at other countries like in Asia, China, India, mend those relationships for the better good of our country.
And right now, I don't, I don't really see us mending anything.
I don't see us.
We have one customer.
We supply, you know, I believe it's 25% of the oil to the United States and they're our only customer.
This is, this is, this has to change.
And I, I'm out of ideas.
I'm going to, don't get me wrong, I'm still going to keep going, but we that the really intelligent, so-called educated people need to really sit down and understand the deep cause of the problems that we face in society and work for solutions.
And those solutions aren't pretty on either side.
Yeah, I do appreciate that you're going to try to not preach to the choir because I think sometimes as like pro-energy advocates, it's really the path of least resistance to sort of cheerlead for the oil sands and for the energy industry to people who are already pro-energy and pro-industry.
But, you know, communicating to people who think that the answer to everything is solar panel and a Tesla, communicating to them the necessity of oil in their lives in a way that they would tangibly understand that doesn't make them feel stupid.
I don't think we've done a very good job of that.
No, no, and the problem, the problem is too, is with like we're in such, like we had the pandemic and we're in such a Zoom society, like we don't spend time understanding.
We need to, we need to get far better at explaining how this benefit.
Like I know a lot of people, some of my family live in Ontario and, you know, they're anti-oil, but and then you explain to them how oil benefits them.
And respectfully, they just don't possess the knowledge.
They somehow think they're away from it.
We need to bring them in quickly.
Now, I do believe, like, you know, I think Quebec and Ontario are a little scared of what's happening with the pipeline in Michigan right now, the fear of that.
And, you know, there's some wake-up calls happening there, but there needs to be some energy literacy going on so people understand everybody's point of view.
And we are getting better at it, but here's the problem, too.
You start up an advocacy campaign.
You say, okay, listen, we're going to get, you know, we're going to hand out stickers and we're going to do these rallies and we're going to do all this stuff.
Meanwhile, you're trying to run your life and the world keeps changing around you.
And then you get these obstacles outside of your control.
I can advocate for Keystone exile pipeline, but I can't stop Joe Biden from making a decision.
And I would argue people on our side, you know, some of them too are a little too comfortable.
They don't quite have, they haven't really, you know, they get one cushy job and another cushy job and it's never really, they don't really understand what's happening out there.
So, I mean, we need a broad stroke of, I'm not even going to say changes.
We need to really, we need to understand where we're coming from and why.
Now, you just touched a little bit on Enbridge's line five pipeline.
And as we're recording this, it's Tuesday afternoon, news has just broken that Trudeau has been asked to help save Enbridge's Line 5.
And the Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer, who's awful, let's emphasis me, not you.
She's given the company 180 days, so until May 12th, to turn off the flow of that pipeline.
And Enbridge has now filed a federal lawsuit challenging that order.
Will we see Justin Trudeau help Enbridge's line five, or is he just going to be all hands off like he normally is?
I think it depends on what happens if she successfully shuts that pipeline down and the consequences for people in Ontario and Quebec.
He tends to favor people from Ontario and Quebec a little bit.
Sounds like 5,000 jobs are at risk and it could jeopardize Ontario and Michigan's energy supply.
So, you know, I guess my question is Trudeau going to treat Ontario jobs differently than Alberta jobs.
I would say probably, yeah.
I mean, history has shown that he favors the favor of Ontario and Quebec.
And bluntly, I mean, our political system is set up in a way.
Alberta doesn't really have a voice.
We don't.
We never like, I mean, people complain about the Electoral College in the United States, but we have the actual opposite effect of that.
We don't have a say in Alberta because we don't have the population and we don't have the seats.
And so, I mean, the prime minister of our country is chosen for us time and time again before we even have a chance.
You know, so yes, he'll favor, he'll do what he can, just like he does from Bombardier or anything in Ontario, Quebec.
And the oil sands are, they're just sort of there.
And I don't think any of them truly appreciate it.
It's a lot of lip service, but I don't think they go out of their way to really, you know, and I mean, I'm not going to totally knock him, but what I will say is like, you know, when he made that statement about Canada's, when Harper was prime minister, Canada's being ran by Alberta and that little shot at us, he forgets to mention us when he's mentioned all the countries.
And then, you know, then he makes a comment, well, we're going to phase out the oil sands.
Rough Times Ahead00:02:48
Well, I mean, one, two, three small little things add up to, I don't know, but I do believe he'll fight for that because that's going to have a devastating effect.
But can he?
Can he fight for it?
I don't know.
I mean, can he, does he have the power to deal with the Michigan government and why she's suddenly picking a fight on a perfectly good pipeline that's lasted forever?
I'm not sure.
I think we'll see a lot of this from some of these more radical United States governors now that Biden's in office.
I think they're going to feel emboldened.
And frankly, I think there might even be a little bit of green radical one-upmanship that we'll see between Trudeau and Biden.
Someone's going to ban plastic, then someone's going to tax meat, and then someone's going to raise the carbon tax, and then someone else is going to raise a tax on this, a green tax.
I think it's going to be escalating green one-upmanship going forward.
Robbie, I want to ask you, because you're at work.
You're a small business owner, and the pandemic, small businesses are being hammered by the pandemic.
You're in Fort McMurray.
Fort McMurray is already sort of struggling because of the downturn in oil and gas.
What's it like on the ground there for small businesses?
It's, I'm going to be honest with you.
I mean, we've lost, I mean, the last stat came out 10% of all small businesses.
I think it's going to be more like 15 or 20 coming up fast here.
It's a mess.
You know what I mean?
And everyone's doing what they can to survive and get through what they need to.
Some businesses are doing well and some are not.
But yeah, it's a mess.
And hopefully this pandemic is over soon.
We're lucky though, because we, I mean, our case is really, I think we've spiked it around 300.
They're dropping now.
We tend to be Fort McMurray.
There are certain protocols that have always been in place here.
We tend to, we have high safety standards.
So, I mean, we were already hand sanitizing.
It wasn't too hard to adapt.
But yeah, it's been rough.
It's been rough on a lot of people.
And I think a lot of people feel hopeless and they're scared.
You know, some people are optimistic.
If you ride it out, eventually it's going to get better.
We'll see where all the cards lie.
But it has been, but, you know, as normal as you can make it in a tough situation.
Now, we haven't had major lockdowns here.
We, you know, the bit like we've had a few small lockdowns and stuff like that, but business is functioning.
And fortunately, a lot of the small businesses were able to keep going.
So, but we've lost a lot.
I mean, I don't, I think the amount of restaurants that are going to be here will be completely different when this is over.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The food service and hospitality industry sure has been hammered.
Robbie, I know you're at work, so I'll let you get back to it.
Supporting the Oil Patch00:02:18
But I wanted to give you an opportunity to let people know how they can find the work that you do and more importantly, support the work that you do, because you don't have big deep-pocketed oil companies helping you along the way.
And you don't, you're, you know, you're up against foreign-funded environmentalist groups every single day who have, you know, millions of dollars at their disposal and you're just the guy in his pickup truck most days.
If you go to oilsandstrong.com, you can buy some shirts and we're going to be launching a few new web shows and stuff like that and maybe setting up like a Patreon to help fund what we're doing.
I am going to be traveling and going to a couple of these pipeline towns and doing a few little mini videos on that.
But that's essentially, if you want to help out, that would be great.
Well, thanks, Robbie.
You do a great job of humanizing the oil patch.
A lot of people see it as big oil, big business, but you're out there telling the stories of the boots on the ground and how it helps lift Indigenous people out of poverty.
And I think you're one of the few people out there telling those stories.
Robbie, thanks so much for coming on the show.
We'll have you back on again real soon.
Okay, thank you so much.
Like I said to Robby, I think there's going to be an ongoing escalation of job-killing green policies on both sides of the border.
Trudeau, well, he wants to be the greenest, most woke leader in the Western world.
Biden, he's not going to be happy to have Trudeau as the rock star of global elite meetings like the World Economic Forum.
Trudeau won't be satisfied to have a geriatric social justice warrior steal all the spotlight that Trudeau has had at these global meetings and events for the last six years.
It's going to be a lot of ego-stroking between the two leaders.
And at the end of the day, it's the working man that's going to pay for all of it on both sides of the border.
Well, everybody, that's the show for tonight.
Thank you so much, as always, for tuning in.
I'll see everybody back here in the same time, in the same place next week.