James Kitchen of the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms (JCCF) led urgent legal challenges against Alberta and Manitoba’s COVID-19 lockdowns in December 2020, targeting restrictions like business closures and family gatherings—even Christmas celebrations—while citing failed pandemic claims: Canada’s 2020 deaths (186,690) were lower than 2019’s (190,300). He highlighted Charter violations, including delayed surgeries like Debbie Hed Gullhoff’s canceled skull operation and Jerry Dunham’s fatal pacemaker delay, framing lockdowns as "authoritarian" overreach. JCCF, funded solely by donations, faces 200 weekly case submissions, urging listeners to plead "not guilty" unless paying fines. Their fight alongside Rebel News underscores the need for legal resistance against pandemic-era government power grabs, proving civil liberties must be defended even in emergencies. [Automatically generated summary]
Defending Civil Liberties During Lockdowns00:12:36
Hello Rebels, you're listening to a free audio-only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show, The Gun Show.
Tonight, my guest is James Kitchen.
He's a lawyer with the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms, and he and his team are on the front lines defending civil liberties during the times of the COVID lockdown.
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We're currently on month nine and a half of two weeks to flatten the curve, and it would seem the only things being completely flattened are our civil liberties and the economy.
Rebel News, of course, is fighting back, but we're not alone.
I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.
As you know, friends, Rebel News has been on the forefront of the fight against the coronavirus restrictions on Canadians' lives from the very beginning.
And we've been fighting the pandemic fines being issued to people for just living their lives every step of the way with our fightethefines.com initiative.
If you go to that special website, you can get our help fighting a coronavirus fine.
You can see some of our previous cases and meet some of the previous people that we've been helping.
But you can also see some of our early victories.
And of course, you can help in our comprehensive legal battle against these pandemic restrictions at fightethefines.com.
Rebel News, though, we have a strong ally in the battle to preserve civil liberties from government overreach during the declared pandemic.
That ally is the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms.
They've filed legal challenges in both Alberta and Manitoba against the pandemic lockdown.
And so tonight, I have on the show James Kitchen.
He's a lawyer with the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms.
And he's on the show tonight to talk about some of the great work that the JCCF is doing to keep Canada just a little more free.
James joins me tonight in an interview we recorded yesterday afternoon.
James, thanks for joining me.
I wanted to have you on the show because I think the work that the Justice Center is doing right now, especially during the pandemic, but always, Is so important in defense of civil liberties.
And I know there are a lot of organizations in this country who purport to be about civil liberties.
And you hear a lot about them when they would like you to renew your membership in their organization.
Journalistic organizations, I'm looking at you.
But the Justice Center, you folks really put your money where your mouth is.
And I think you've played a strategic role in keeping this country a little more free, especially during the pandemic.
And the one that I want to talk about first is the legal action that the Justice Center has taken with regard to the Alberta government lockdown.
You are challenging the lockdowns in court.
That's right, we are.
The whole thing.
But what you might not fully understand is that we're also seeking an injunction.
So, you know, normally court processes take years.
We try to maybe cut that down to maybe two, a half or three quarters of a year because we go through what's called an application as opposed to a statement of claim.
It speeds it up a little bit.
There's no big trial when we get one or two days in court.
But even then, of course, in a situation like this, you know, four, six, eight months is a long time.
People can't, a lot of people aren't going to make it that long, right?
So in addition to that, what we've done is we've applied for an injunction, which is an emergency expedited hearing, right?
And of course, the emergency and expedited in the legal world means two weeks.
So we filed this, we filed the whole thing, both the originating application it's called, and the injunction application early on here in December with the goal of getting an injunction hearing before the court closed for Christmas, which we've succeeded in doing.
And I can tell you that we recently had a hearing scheduled for this Thursday, December 17th.
That has now been moved to Monday, December, what is that, 201st, I believe?
It's a Monday, it's coming Monday at 9:30 a.m.
The public and media can attend that.
It'll be a virtual hearing.
So, you know, the people who aren't lawyers have to fill out a quick little form.
Other than that, they can attend.
So, my understanding is that hundreds of people can virtually attend this hearing as long as they, you know, sign and act in accordance with this agreement to not disrupt the proceedings.
And I encourage people to do that.
So, you know, and my understanding from the court is that we are going to get a decision almost immediately after that hearing.
So, if we are successful, that will mean that the Christmas is uncanceled.
And that's one of the goals of this, obviously.
We're trying to get people's businesses open.
We're trying to get people able to earn income, obviously, and that's urgent because people need to be able to do that for the next few months if they're going to survive until we can have a full hearing on the merits on this.
But we're also trying to get the outdoor gathering restrictions lifted so people can continue to protest this lawfully for the next few months, which they have a constitutional right to do.
And probably most importantly for most people, the restriction that prevents them from lawfully celebrating Christmas together in their own homes, we are trying to get that lifted.
And if we're successful, then that means, you know, as of as of a day or two after the hearing, prior to Christmas, people will be able to lawfully gather for Christmas again, which they always should have been able to.
So, if people are able, I mean, I'm able, I'm probably gonna, but if people are lawfully allowed to celebrate Christmas with their extended families over Christmas, it will be because of the work done by the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms.
Is there, or are there any other civil liberties organizations joining with you in this challenge?
Not so far, certainly not for the injunction.
It'll be interesting to see if any join on to the main action.
That's a good question.
You know, I mulled this over in my mind the other day, and I listed off all the ones that aren't that are unlikely to join.
Um, I can only think of one, I suppose, other maybe other ones, other than the rebel, perhaps, I can only think of one that would even consider doing this.
And I won't, I won't name them, but um, I'll leave that to you.
But, um, you know, yeah, this goes a lot farther than the so-called civil liberties organizations would be willing to go, right?
Um, you know, well, I mean, ultimately, what we're seeking is for all of the orders that French civil liberties, and the vast majority of them do, and I'm sure there's a few provisions that don't.
Um, we're asking for them all to be struck down because there just isn't the evidence to justify the infringements, right?
Um, it's not that nothing is going on, we have something, obviously, we know that, but in order in order to justify these sorts of egregious wholesale infringements, you have to have something dramatic to to to support that justification, and that's that's missing, that's not there, right?
The sky is not falling, people aren't dying in the streets, right?
We have a situation we got to deal with, but do we deal with that through normal measures or do we deal with that through the complete destruction of the economy and of people's liberties and really of the whole um the whole thing that makes life worth the living?
I mean, you know, Christmas is massive for people emotionally, spiritually, psychologically.
Um, you know, Christmas morning is, I mean, that's some of the things that keep people going as far as their mental health is.
That's not some that's what people live for, right?
You live for those types of events, that's what makes life worth living for.
That's what makes this different than cattle that you can just you know put in a pen, right?
We are emotional beings, we need social interaction, we live for it.
And I, you know, I've heard from doctors who talked about their patients are willing to risk their older patients are willing to risk getting COVID and dying if that's what it means in order for them to have that social interaction that they want more than anything else, right?
So, that's what this is about.
It's about not just the rights, but what the rights protect.
The rights protect these real, human, important things that we do, we take for granted, but we do because that's what makes life worth living.
It's about getting those back because you don't justify infringing that just by saying, you know, yeah, the ICUs are quite full, and yes, you know, I get it.
Some people, some people have died of this respiratory.
I understand that, right?
And that's serious, and we got to deal with it.
But do we deal with it by actually making things worse by destroying the economy and the opioid overdoses and the canceled surgeries?
You know, everybody knows about that.
Are we making things better?
No, we're making them worse, right?
And the Constitution is designed to protect against that.
You know, and it's there are a lot of people, I think, that are not buying into this anymore.
People who said at the beginning, okay, that's we'll cancel Easter, we'll even cancel Halloween on the assumption that we will get through this, it'll be over, and life will be back to normal by the end of the year by Christmas.
And that's not the case.
And I think a lot of people who were not as resistant to the lockdown measures in the beginning have absolutely had it.
And I've noticed that's been the case while I've been in Calgary covering the lockdown protests, both the one this past weekend and the one would have been two weekends ago that John Carpe from the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedom spoke at.
I encountered a lot of people there who said, Yeah, in the beginning, whatever you wanted me to do, I was willing to do it just for us to get through this.
We didn't know how bad it was.
We thought China was lying, which they were to the extent that they were lying.
I don't think we'll ever truly know.
But there are a lot of people who said, Sure, I was fully on board.
But as this continued to play out, I started leaving the death cult because the comet that promised the destruction never came.
And I think, like so many death cults, this is sort of frittering out and it's losing momentum and it's losing the enthusiasm and the buy-in of the public.
Now, I wanted to have you on also to talk about, because I just bring up Easter and it seems like so many of these restrictions are targeted at the faith communities, not specifically Christians, but also mosques and synagogues and Sikh temples.
And I think the Justice Center, I think coupled with my colleague Kian Bexti's coverage of what has been happening at some of the Mennonite churches in Manitoba, has been instrumental in the Manitoba government dialing back the restrictions on religious services there.
Lockdowns More Deadly?00:15:08
Why don't you tell us a little bit about what the Justice Center offered to do to Manitoba to get them to rethink their restrictions on religious services?
Well, you know, we offered to, we insinuated that we were going to file for an injunction against the drive-in services, right?
Which happened.
This was an issue back at Easter, back in the spring, right?
We, you know, we threatened with this in Saskatchewan.
They reasonably backed off almost immediately.
We had a few issues in Alberta, but that didn't really go anywhere.
They largely backed off.
Similarly, in Ontario, way back in the beginning with Hildebrand's Church in Elmer, I think it was, Ontario.
So yeah, we were very happy and pleasantly surprised actually to see Powell Street's government back off on that.
So yeah, I'm very happy to see that.
And, you know, unfortunately, so much of this is political, right?
We saw that in the spring.
There was that, I think you were there.
There was that, there was the two rallies, or no, it was one big rally at the legislature in May, and three guys got hauled away.
You know, and there was, and there's big, this was when the outdoor gathering was 15% or 15 people.
And immediately after that, you know, the Justice Center took two of those tickets.
They eventually got dropped.
You know, we did a news release, but it wasn't just us.
There was a lot of coverage of that.
There was a lot of backlash.
And Kenny responded with saying, well, now it's going to be 50 people outdoors, and we're not going to have the sheriffs there, you know, doing this sort of thing.
Which, I mean, that was entirely political response.
That wasn't like a science medicine response, right?
But that's, but that's, that just goes to show, right?
This is very much political and it really depends on how much political action the people who want to stay free are going are going to take, right?
Because that's just, that's how it's for better or for worse, it's how our democracy works.
It works.
And I would say it's for better, right?
You know, that's a great point.
I think if for myself and some other people who were at that legislature that day for that protest, if we didn't have footage of how everybody was standing at least six feet apart, standing in the families or groups in which they rode together in the same car, I mean, for the sheriffs to come in and then haul away three of them, ticket three of them.
I mean, they were probably the three most belligerent, but those are the sort of people that go to protests anyway.
I mean, that's nothing new.
Being prickly is not against the law.
If we hadn't sort of shone the disinfecting sunlight on that, Jason Kenney would not have dialed that back because it was pretty clear that they were doing their best to abide by the rules and balance civil liberties with health concerns.
And yeah, you are right to point out that it was absolutely a political response.
Nothing about the facts of the coronavirus day or that day changed because we caught on camera sheriffs hauling away protesters.
It didn't change how the disease was transmitted, but it did change how the public perceived the government's reaction to it.
It's the same thing with the BLM protests, right?
I mean, the coronavirus isn't racist, it's not like it hates white people but loves black people.
It doesn't work that way, right?
Obviously, so that was the same thing.
And you had all these public health experts, so-called, coming out and supporting the BLM protests.
Meanwhile, they were this early against the pro or the anti-lockdown protests.
You know, and actually had somebody who's very mild-mannered and very reasonable.
We were talking about this, and that for him was the moment where he said, Wait a minute, this isn't, this is obviously what's really going on here, right?
And that's what clicked for him.
And ever since, he's been against it.
And I thought that, I mean, obviously, I was against it before, but I thought that was really fascinating to hear this from this eminently like reasonable, mild-mannered older gentleman.
He said, Yep, the BLM protest thing happened, I saw the double standard.
That's when I woke up.
And I, you know, I mean, I know that's history now, but I would encourage people to still look back on that and all the double standards that have happened since then and consider what's really going on here and what this is really all about.
Well, yeah, and the police response too.
I remember the Calgary City police were sort of applauding the BLM protests for how peaceful they were and blah, blah, blah.
And we had the NDP and NDP MLA David Shepard spoke at it.
So it was perfectly fine for everybody to gather as long as their political ideology aligns with the left, then that's fine.
The virus won't get you.
But if you're out there protesting in favor of civil liberties, well, you're just a big old grandma killer.
And that's just how it's going to be.
I wanted to talk to you also about how the Justice Center has filed legal action against the Manitoba lockdowns.
Is that similar to the legal action that you're attempting here in Alberta?
Are you trying to free Christmas for everybody and take it back from the Grinch of Brian Pallister?
Well, it's a little different just because the restrictions are a little different.
And, you know, so we are fighting, we are going to try to file in probably at least half the provinces of the country, Saskatchewan, BC, and Ontario are lined up next.
But each one's going to be a little different because the restrictions are a little different.
And, you know, I'll be perfectly frank with you.
I'm not overly familiar with what's going on in Manitoba because I've been buried in the Alberta litigation.
I've been removing that over here, and I've spent 100 hours on it in the last two weeks.
And so I'm very zoned in on that.
So I wish my colleagues well, and I'm glad what they're doing.
And I think they're going to be in court here this Thursday, the 17th.
And I don't think they're going after as much injunctive relief as we are, just because I think the facts on the ground there are very different.
So I don't think they're going to be able to save Christmas as much as we might be able to, but I don't think they actually need to as much.
Because I don't think, for example, there you can't gather in your own home to celebrate Christmas.
My understanding is that doesn't that restriction isn't there, right?
I think Alberta might be the only one that has that.
I'm not sure.
That really, that's for me, you know, I'm pretty used to civil liberties infringements.
I haven't seen one that bad yet.
I've been doing this for over four years and not having not being able to have somebody in your house for Christmas.
I have an affian who her daughter just they live somewhere in mid-Alberta.
Their daughter just moved to Brooks.
And their daughter's like, you know, 19, 20, like she's a young adult.
She just moved out to go to Brooks to live alone for a job there.
And these rules are such in Alberta that she can't come home to spend Christmas lawfully.
If she does, she'll be breaking the law.
I mean, that's, you know, I don't want to exaggerate, but I mean, authoritarian, I don't even know if that goes far enough, right?
I might want to start using some other descriptors to describe that.
I mean, that is utterly repugnant to the idea of a Western-free democratic nation, utterly repugnant.
Well, and it happened so fast because, you know, all things considered, the Alberta government had taken the least restrictive.
However, I'm generally against restrictions in all instances.
But compared to the other provinces, we had been sort of the least restrictive.
And then the hammer just dropped.
It was targeted measures three weeks ago.
And then before we even had a chance to see what results, if any, those targeted measures had had on our coronavirus case counts, the hammer was absolutely dropped.
It's across the board restrictions, closing entire sectors of the economy, sectors of the economy that had been applauded by the premier two weeks sooner, personal care and salons being one of those.
And, you know, the premier had apologized three weeks ago for saying, you know, we were wrong to have named some sectors of the economy essential and others not.
And then yet two weeks later, he goes ahead and does that.
I think that's what was so shocking for me is it just it flipped overnight, but you could feel it in the air.
You could sense that it was coming a little bit.
And Jacques Me, I was not surprised.
I seen it coming.
You know, he said in July, we're not going to, you know, we're not going to force our way out of this.
I thought, that's a nice sentiment, but I don't actually believe you.
Yeah.
Because I judge you on your actions, not on your words.
I've had a lot of talks with people about this, of course.
You know, well, because Kenny probably talks the best game of any premier in the country about not infringing civil liberties during all this whole thing.
I said, well, you know, I judge people by their actions.
And his actions don't accord with his words.
And, you know, like, I mean, you know, you want to pick somebody whose actions and words have lined up.
I'll take the governor of South Dakota.
I'm not going to take Kenny.
And, you know, I don't see why if he truly does believe in freedom, if he truly does believe that we're not going to force our way out of this, obviously it's not working.
Lockdowns are not working.
No.
We're still getting the spread.
We're still getting the deaths, which, of course, a lot of the experts said, that's going to happen anyways.
You can't stop a virus unless you're God.
Lockdown is not going to stop at any event.
And actually might make it worse because you should be trying to get herd immunity.
But I mean, you look at what South Dakota did.
I mean, in the long run, are they going to be better off or worse off through all this?
They're going to be better off.
Because first of all, they didn't destroy their economy.
And second of all, they didn't throw their chaos and their society into chaos with all the distrust of government and the distrust of each other.
I mean, now in Alberta, you have huge social discord between anti-maskers and pro-maskers.
I'm constantly seeing in the media all these terrible circumstances of both sides attacking each other.
This is terrible.
And it was all self-imposed by the government.
It didn't have to happen.
Yeah, there's a bit of a snitch culture that's been created here in Alberta.
And I'm ashamed to say that it even exists.
Now, it's funny that you said that we can't stop the deaths, but incidentally, based on a Justice Center analysis that shows lockdowns are more deadly than COVID-19.
In 2020, our eight-month total for deaths, all deaths in Canada, 186,690 deaths across eight months.
And yet in 2019, so before the times of this deadly disease that was going to kill us all, and there are actually more deaths over across the eight-month total is 190,300, showing that these lockdowns, you know, like this disease that was going to kill us all, this is actually probably the least deadly eight months that we've had in a long time.
And yet the economic strife is far worse.
Yeah, it's weird when you look at the data.
It's, you know, in a morbid sense, it's fascinating because what you have is because we shut down the economy.
See, this is really key.
So we shut down the economy.
So we actually lost a whole bunch of natural deaths that happen every year, right?
We went down.
I'm going to think that we went down in car accidents and other natural deaths that are a natural result of heightened economic activity comes with a little bit of low-level risk.
And this is the problem, right?
We've forgotten.
We knew this a couple hundred years ago.
We've forgotten that when you live in a free society that is prosperous and is active, you will get accidents.
You will get some deaths besides just illnesses.
You will get those, right?
And we've actually gotten less of those this year because the government shut everything down.
And then we also see, though, that it's questionable that we're in a pandemic at all because we have no excess deaths, right?
If 47,000 people in Alberta die normally every year, well, we're not going to exceed that this year.
In fact, we're going to be lower than that.
So it really calls into question whether or not what we have is just a bad flu year or a true pandemic, right?
Because in a bad flu year, you're not going to really change that average each year.
You're just maybe, you know, a couple hundred extra because you have a couple hundred extra flu deaths, right?
In a pandemic, you're going to have, you know, statistically significant increases.
It might be 33,000.
You know, you had an extra 6,000 deaths.
That would be an actual, now we're in the actual mathematic definition of the pandemic.
We don't actually have that, right?
That doesn't mean we don't have tragedy.
That doesn't mean it isn't sad that people are dying of whether it's pneumonia, flu, or COVID, right?
That's, that's, nobody's saying that isn't tragic.
The point is, that's an inevitable tragedy of living on planet Earth.
And so do we respond to that in this irrational, asinine way by destroying the whole purpose of life and the things that make life worth living for the rest of society?
Right?
And that's, and again, that goes back to the constitutional protections are there to prevent that sort of thing from happening, right?
Yeah, I mean, the act of living and being on planet Earth is that nobody makes it out alive.
And my concern is that from these canceled surgeries that we've seen, and I noticed from the analysis done by the Justice Center that 850 women had their breast cancer surgery delayed by, and that's essential.
They had it delayed by at least two months.
And so for when I'm looking at this, I'm thinking by 2021, we are going to see a spike in deaths, illnesses, early deaths of treatable illnesses where we could have prolonged not only their life, but their quality of life for much longer.
We're going to see that play out in 2021 from all these delayed surgeries where we emptied out our hospital wards for this wave of coronavirus cases that never actually came.
Yeah, yeah.
You know what?
And I'll be honest with you, that's really what gives me the fire in my belly.
It's not, you know, I mean, the rights matter to me, but it's really, it's about what the rights protect, right?
And it makes me angry that these women are going through this and that all the other people that are suffering from not getting their surgeries.
And I mean, even death, right?
Jerry Dunham died because he didn't get his pacemaker surgery.
You know, and he left behind two young girls and his wife.
Yeah.
Ah, you know, that's, that's, I mean, at the raw human level, that's why I want to live in a free society.
That's why I fight to live in a free society because it isn't about me being some raging libertarian.
It's about people having a better quality of life, right?
It's about actually alleviating human suffering.
It's about actually increasing human flourishing to get really philosophical about it.
That's what it comes down to.
And that's that's what this is really about.
This isn't just about rights, you know, my right to not wear a mask.
No, it's about my right to live, you know, with a decent minimum quality level of life.
And that's, and that's why I live in this free society.
I don't move to Iran, China, or North Korea or whatnot, right?
Human Flourishing00:02:24
Or Venezuela.
Because I actually want to live a decent life.
And I know I can do that here.
And this is one of the few places where I can.
And I want to keep it that way.
That's what this is really all about.
Now, while we're talking about canceled surgeries and delayed surgeries, the Justice Center is bringing attention.
I'll read directly from the Justice Center press release, calling attention to a dire situation that has resulted in the cancellation of a scheduled essential surgery at the University of Alberta Hospital in Edmonton for a Tumblr Ridge BC senior.
Debbie Hed Gullhoff is a 60-year-old mother and grandmother.
She requires skull surgery.
I can't even believe they delayed this.
That had been scheduled for November 30th at the University of Alberta, but it has now been canceled due to Alberta's latest lockdown measures.
She suffered a stroke.
She was airlifted to the U of A emergency room on September 4th.
The surgery involved removing part of her skull and storing it on ice to allow enough time for the swelling in her brain to go down.
But she can't get the surgery she needs to reattach her skull because they've canceled all the non-essential surgeries.
I would think that putting your head back together is an essential surgery, especially for this woman who has so much life left to live and so many people who need her to live.
She's got kids and grandchildren, and yet she's really the human face of this pandemic, isn't she?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, she's the human face of the response to the so-called pandemic that is far, far, far worse.
And we will feel it for years to come.
And it's tragic.
And, you know, there's many, many other stories that I've heard, but hers is probably one of the worst.
And, you know, and again, that goes back to, you know, I mean, that's what Section 7 of the Charter is for, right?
Life and security of the person.
I suppose to protect against that sort of stuff.
And this is an infringement of this.
And this is a direct response where you get these high-level orders that are not thought out.
They're just ad hoc imposed.
They're arbitrary.
And then everybody's scared.
This is a huge problem, of course.
Everybody's scared.
So they say, well, I got to follow the orders.
I can't get in trouble.
I don't want to lose my job.
I get that a lot.
And then, you know, and they're caught in the middle in this moral dilemma of, well, if I buck AHS, I might lose my job.
Meanwhile, I know that this woman needs this and this is awful, but what do I do?
Infringement of Charter Rights00:04:27
Right.
Well, I better just, you know, I better just, I better just tow the party line.
And, you know, they've said cancels.
I'm going to cancel.
Right.
And this, yeah, this is the face of the real human suffering as a result of that.
And her surgery is a one-hour surgery.
It's so small and it would make such a difference in her quality of life.
I mean, just the amount of, as you point out, human suffering.
She's lost 40 pounds.
She is scared to do anything because she might bump, you know, have an injury that could cause now a catastrophic brain injury to her, maybe even resulting in death.
And it's just a one-hour surgery to give her back her life, but she can't get it because we're still waiting for that second and third wave of coronavirus patients that really truly are never coming.
Yeah.
James, I could talk to you all day, but you're a busy lawyer and I'm a busy journalist.
I want to give you an opportunity to let people know where they can find some of the cases that the Justice Center is working on, how they can reach out to the Justice Center if they feel that the Justice Center could help them in some way.
I think more importantly for the vast majority of people, how they can support the work that the Justice Center is doing.
Yeah, so I know, you know, it's kind of a well-kept secret.
The Justice Center is a non-profit charity, right?
So all of our revenue, if you're going to call it that, comes from donations, right?
Very similar to a church or any other charity, right?
We issue tax receipts for any donation over $50.
That's how I get paid.
I get paid a salary.
Every other lawyer gets paid a salary out of that, right?
So, you know, more donations means more staff, means more cases we take, right?
Which is great.
We're in the midst of hiring staff right now.
We're going out on the wind because we need staff to run these cases.
I'm dying in here with just, you know, I got this tiny little team and we're all putting in 100 hours a week and it's crazy.
So, you know, yes, please, please do support us.
It goes directly to getting the staff to run the cases.
And you can, yeah, you can write on our website and do that.
And you can contact us in our website too if you, if you, if you, we call it a case submission, right?
If you have a situation you want to help with, you can contact us.
We get about 200 a week right now.
So bear with us.
Our response is not immediate because we've been inundated, as you can imagine.
That's surprised to anybody, but we will try to get back to you.
And especially if it's a ticket case, contact us.
If you're concerned about it, just plead not guilty and then mail it in because you're not bound to that.
If you want to change your mind and plead not guilty in the future, you can't.
Most people don't know this, right?
So, you know, I've been telling people, plead not guilty unless you're determined to pay it.
And then, you know, somebody, whether it's you guys or us, will get back to them, right?
So I encourage people to contact us definitely about the tickets.
Well, James, I want to thank you so much for the work that you do to keep this country free.
It's a big job.
And I'm glad to have an ally in the fight for freedom because I think they need the Justice Center and the work that you do now more than ever.
And, you know, I think that's why it's so important to support the Justice Center in the good times because you need an army there during the bad times.
And again, thank you so much for your time.
And we'll have you back on the show again very soon.
All right.
Well, thanks for having me.
was a pleasure this time is not supposed to make a law that disregards your charter rights and In fact, the charter is there to restrain the government from doing such a thing.
Your rights don't come from the government.
Your rights are supposed to be protected by the government, but also protected from the government.
And that's why I'm so happy to have the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms fighting alongside of us here at Rebel News against these governments that are using the coronavirus pandemic to control every single aspect of your life.
You know, I bet you didn't think a year ago that an unelected health bureaucrat whose name you'd never heard before would now be dictating just how many people can come over for Christmas dinner.
Government Overreach During Pandemic00:00:08
Well, everybody, that's the show for tonight.
Thank you so much.
As always, for tuning in, I'll see everybody back here in the same time, in the same place.