JY, a transgender individual with male genitalia, sued 12+ Vancouver-area women—many immigrant, religious, or home-based—for refusing Brazilian bikini wax services, citing discrimination under BC human rights law. A May 2019 tribunal ruling sided with JY despite expert testimony linking the service to sexual confusion risks; JCCF’s John Carpe now defends the women amid legal intimidation, including $7,500 settlement demands. The case exposes tensions between gender identity-based service mandates and providers’ rights, while Ontario parents warn of schools erasing biological sex distinctions, raising questions about ideological enforcement over bodily autonomy. [Automatically generated summary]
You're listening to a free audio-only recording of my show, The Gun Show.
My guest tonight is John Carpe from the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms.
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What happens when social justice collides with women's rights?
Transgender Rights vs Women's Safety00:14:56
I asked that question tonight.
I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.
I know it looks a little different than my normal green screen set in my basement.
That's because today I'm here in London at the Defend Media Freedom Conference.
I'm here with the boss.
We are asking skeptical questions of the organizers of this conference, especially in light of how Justin Trudeau's government has promised to crack down on social media and fake news, and in light of the UK government's treatment of Tommy Robinson.
But tonight, I still have to do my normal work, my normal job, because I have to give the people what they pay for.
Tonight, I have a crazy story to bring you.
It's about a trans rights activist who is trying to use a quasi-judicial court system to force women, primarily immigrant women, women who have English as a second language, to touch their male genitals.
It is almost too crazy to believe.
So, tonight, I called in John Carpe from the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms.
His lawyers are on the case defending these women in British Columbia, and he joins me in an interview I recorded before I left for the UK.
So joining me now to make sense of this wild and crazy case is John Carpe from the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms.
Because, boy, we need a lawyer to make sense of this one.
John, can you give us a bit of a backgrounder about just what's going on here?
Because there's some serious history beyond what's before the courts today and again next week.
Back in the spring of 2018, an individual who we refer to as JY filed human rights complaints against more than a dozen Vancouver area women who provide the service of a Brazilian bikini wax to other women.
And Jay is a transgender person, the trans woman, but with male genitalia.
The BC Human Rights Tribunal has issued an order requiring that the name be anonymized.
So we refer to JY as JY.
And a lot of the women that he's targeted are visible minority women who speak English poorly, in some cases, religious women, in some cases, women who work out of their own home.
And for various reasons, these women do not want to handle or touch or see or deal with male genitalia.
And so they've turned down his request for Brazilian bikini wax.
And then he goes and files a human rights complaint.
And a lot of these women have been pressured into settling.
He's asked for as much as $7,500 from one person, from one of the women, to settle.
However, when the aesthetician retains counsel, Jay's pattern previously was to withdraw the complaint.
And however, this week, July 4th and 5th, there are hearings going ahead and taking place in Vancouver.
It sounds like Jay has a bit of a cottage industry going here.
I was reading from the Justice Center press release about this.
This person has filed more than 12 complaints against Vancouver area estheticians.
And as a woman, I wonder: okay, so these are the complaints, but how many other women have just gone ahead and complied against their will to basically touch this man's genitals for fear of a complaint being filed?
Because I know these are, you know, new Canadian women.
A lot of them, these ladies don't have a great grasp of the English language.
I don't think they know how to fight back.
So they just comply.
I mean, it really is terrible.
There's a, in the press release, it cites a May 30th, 2019 ruling where the BC Human Rights Tribunal expressed concerns about the rights of transgender women to access gender-affirming care such as waxing.
And the tribunal called this critical, even if this is a very intimate service that is sometimes performed by women who are themselves vulnerable.
And it said that JY has a genuine grievance about pervasive discrimination against transgender women.
I mean, this is really quite horrifying to me.
Well, you're reading straight out of the tribunal's own ruling, May 30th.
And I am shocked at how there is no media at the Human Rights Tribunal on Thursday, July 4th.
Here you've got a transgender person claiming discrimination because JY is not getting the Brazilian bikini wax.
And at the same time, you've got women, racialized women or women of color, visible minority women.
You would think the media would be all over this because it's kind of an interesting paradox and conflict.
This is the kind of conflict you get with human rights laws.
And it seems to be a boycott because, and I'm speculating here, I don't know why.
Because otherwise, this is a very interesting case.
I mean, there's an expert testified on July the 4th as to how doing a Brazilian, Manzillian bikini wax on men is a different procedure requiring different wax.
I mean, this was, we've got JY getting cross-examined about JY's genitalia because JY is, it's almost unmentionable.
You would think the media would be out in full force, but I think that they are trying to boycott this in the sense that what JY is asking for is actually in a, you know, you and I might say twisted sort of way, what JY is asking for is actually consistent with the whole transgender ideology that if our gender is based on our feelings, right?
So if I feel like a woman, I am a woman.
If that's true, and if everybody else needs to be forced to go along with that, then JY logically, you take it to its logical conclusion, these women should be forced to deal with male parts because reality should be trumped by JY's gender identity and feelings.
So these are real live issues, but I think it's a bit of an embarrassment to this progressive ideology when you have to take things to their logical conclusion.
Well, you know, and it's just not a media blackout.
I mean, hello, where are the feminists?
These vulnerable women are being targeted by this serial human rights complainer.
Where are the immigrants, the immigrants' rights advocates?
I mean, he's make, sorry, JY, and I don't want to, I don't, I don't.
I don't need a human rights complaint filed against me.
JY has made, and again, this is directly from the tribunal, that the tribunal was troubled that some of JY's comments made within the process and online suggest that JY holds stereotypical and negative views about immigrants to Canada.
Where are the immigrant rights people to stand up for these women?
You know, I think there's a media blackout and all these other social justice groups are avoiding this topic because, like you state, it reveals end stage social justice.
This is where all these rights hammer into each other.
And how do you decide whose rights trump whose rights?
I mean, and from what I've heard, it's quite the spectacle happening down at the courthouse.
Well, because JY, well, JY has made statements online to the effect that JY has male genitalia.
And that's also in some of his conversations with the women when he's seeking bikini wax.
Although he's now stated before the tribunal that his account got hacked and he never said that.
But there was cross-examination on Thursday, July 4th about JY's private parts and what are they?
And, you know, this is where we're at in 2019 with the transgender agenda where in a BC Human Rights Tribunal, there's cross-examination about what somebody's parts are because the tribunal said this is relevant to the women wanting to refuse to provide the service.
So that was part of the testimony.
The other thing that took place Thursday, July 4th was an expert witness who was a lady who does Manzillians or Brozillians, so a lady with male clients who does the waxing of the groin area to get rid of hair.
And so this woman testified in court and explained that in a lot of cases, men get aroused and in some cases men want sexual services and sexual favors.
And this kind of confirms the worst fears of the women who have refused to provide the service.
You know, I feel like your Justice Center lawyers working on this case are really learning a lot.
We've learned too much about some things that we would otherwise be blissfully ignorant about.
Yeah, and you know, I also question where the reasonable transgender people are on this, because as a woman, this feels a lot to me like just some pervert who is using the justice system or rather a tribunal system to basically sexually assault women.
He's JY, this person is, you know, using a tribunal system to compel unwilling women to touch male genitals.
Surely, surely there's a reasonable transgender person out there who thinks, no, this isn't really a good thing for our movement to be latching on to is what seems to me as a woman, this seems like a serial predator to me.
Well, this puts the it puts the ideology on trial in a way, because the whole adding gender identity and gender expression to human rights legislation that swept through rather quietly all over the place because, well, maybe if this case had arisen a few years earlier, there might have been some opposition to it.
But this gets to the heart of can you force other people to go along with your feelings of self-identification.
So again, the example, right?
If you feel like a man, Sheila, then are you actually a man?
And do I have to agree with you and call you sir, or vice versa?
If I feel like a woman, does that really make me a woman?
And does the whole world then have to call me, you know, Mrs. or Ms. or she or her?
And this is at the heart of it, because if in fact, if in fact gender is based on feelings and self-identification, well, then JY would be correct in saying that human rights are being violated by not getting this service.
But we're on the side of the women.
We're speaking up for reality.
And, you know, in the same way that you've probably heard of the transabled people that feel that they're handicapped and they're born into a physically whole body.
They're living in the wrong body.
So I should be somebody that's paralyzed, but I'm trapped in the body of somebody that can walk, or I should be somebody.
I feel like I ought to be blind and I'm born into a non-blind body.
For those cases, typically most people say, oh, well, help them with a psychological disorder to integrate their bodily integrity, right?
Give them counseling so that they no longer feel unhappy about being able to see or being able to walk.
Yet when it comes to gender, we seem to throw that out the window.
You know, I'm old enough to remember just two years ago when conservatives were worried about compelled speech and the state forcing us to use certain pronouns under fear of tribunals coming after us.
And now, just two short years later, we are talking about compelled genital fondling or genital touching.
I mean, it's this is how fast this snowball is rolling down the hill.
You know, the only Well, and you see you see that, and this might be a little bit off topic, but this is being pushed a lot in schools, right, where kids are, five-year-old kids are being taught in some cases there is no such thing as a boy or a girl and you know, telling a boy, you might not really be a boy, you might actually be a girl, and telling girls, well, you might actually be a boy.
Compelled Genital Touching00:02:06
This is all very It's sinister and diabolical.
It's creating a lot of confusion and in some cases, harm to children.
I'm sure you've heard of a recent case in Ontario.
This is not a Justice Center case, but parents are suing the school board, or it might be a human rights complaint, over how their daughter was damaged by being exposed to this kind of propaganda.
Yeah, you know, it's really scary how fast this is moving.
But thankfully, we have people like the good folks at the Justice Center who are willing to take these cases and, you know, help these women, especially these vulnerable immigrant women, navigate this system that must just be horrifying to them.
How can people support the Justice Center and in turn support these women?
From what I understand, the hearings are actually open to the public and there's one coming up on the 17th in British Columbia.
And, you know, I think it would be great if people showed up just to support them, even though the media isn't there to tell their story.
Yeah, the next hearing would be on July the 17th.
And it's interesting, you talk about legal representation.
One of our clients actually was turned down by 26 lawyers and law firms before she learned of the availability of the Justice Center to provide representation.
Now, of the 26, I think some of them had good reasons for saying no in that maybe they don't practice in human rights law at all and they have no familiarity with it.
And a smart lawyer will try to avoid jumping into things that he or she is not familiar with.
So that's all fair and good.
But there were others who were quite qualified.
They're terrified of the trans lobby and its rainbow flag allies.
And they're terrified of being called transphobic, transphobic bigot, hateful, transphobic bigot.
Fighting Battles for Freedom00:01:41
People are terrified of the name calling.
So one woman actually was turned down by 26 lawyers and firms before getting representation from us.
And so we do rely, if people want more information on the case, they're welcome to go to our website, www.jccf.ca.
So JCCF, Justice Center, Constitutional Freedoms.
And we gladly accept donations in support of our work because our funding is 100% from people who support the work that we're doing.
We do not ask for, do not receive any government funding.
And so, you know, we appreciate support from the public for our work.
Yeah, it's nice to have a legal arm like the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms out there on the front lines of the culture war the way you are.
John, I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time today.
And I wish you and your team the best of luck on the 17th and we'll be following this very closely.
All right, thanks, Sheila.
Thanks for having me on your show and have a great day.
I will.
Thank you, John.
Boy, I don't know about you, but I am sure glad that John Carpe and his team at the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms are fighting these battles for freedom.
These battles that are almost too crazy to believe.
Well, I want to thank everybody at home also for tuning in tonight to watch this abbreviated version of The Gun Show while Ezra and I are here in the UK doing our part to fight for freedom.