Jody Wilson-Raybould, Indigenous lawyer and former Justice Minister, resigned February 12 after Justin Trudeau allegedly pressured her to drop SNC Lavalin bribery charges ($48M in payoffs). Her father called the demotion a "kick in the teeth," while new AG David LeMetti—who lobbied SNC Lavalin in 2017—refused independent scrutiny, relying on Trudeau’s denials. Ethics Commissioner investigations may yield only $200 fines, mirroring weak oversight in the Mark Norman case, where Judge Heather Perkins-McVeigh accused PMO interference of undermining justice. Trudeau’s pattern of shielding powerful allies, like SNC Lavalin ("too big to jail"), and his tokenistic diversity appointments expose systemic corruption, eroding public trust in Canada’s rule of law. [Automatically generated summary]
Hello, my little rebels and my big rebels and my medium-sized rebels.
You're listening to a free audio-only recording of my show, The Ezra Levant Show.
Today we just go really deep on Jodi Wilson-Raybould.
Wow.
Just yesterday, Justin Trudeau was bragging about how, well, obviously she still supports him.
She's sitting in his cabinet.
Well, today she resigned.
Great letter.
And she's hiring a former Supreme Court judge as her lawyer.
I won't give anyone away.
You can listen to the whole show.
We go deep on it, and we have a special guest going deep on it.
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All right, without further ado, enjoy this free audio-only version of my shoe.
Tonight, a day after Trudeau bragged about Jodi Wilson-Raybold being in his cabinet, well, she quits.
It's February 12th, and this is the Ezra Levant Show.
Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?
There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.
The only thing that I have to say to the government about why I publish it is because it's my bloody right to do so.
Let me show you some body language.
Justin Trudeau's Evasive Answer00:03:22
Let's start with when the Globe and Mail first released their bombshell investigation into corruption at the engineering firm called SNC Lavilan and the pressure that was put on former Canadian Justice Minister Jodie Wilson Raybold to drop criminal charges against SNC Lavalan.
It was a meticulous report by the Globe.
It was comprehensive.
It appeared to have many sources.
It was shocking.
Look at that front page.
So here's Justin Trudeau answering a question about it.
He looked nervous and wobbly and irritated and stressed.
And frankly, he looked like he was lying.
Listen to the question and his over-lawyered answer.
And listen to the reporter asking a supplementary question, pointing out he didn't answer.
And listen to this exact same over-lawyered answer.
And you tell me, does Justin Trudeau look confident, happy, innocent here?
The allegations in the Globe story this morning are false.
Neither the current nor the previous Attorney General was ever directed by me or by anyone in my office to take a decision in this matter.
The allegations reported in the story are false.
At no time did I or my office direct the current or previous Attorney General to make any particular decision in this matter.
But not necessarily direct, Prime Minister.
Was there any sort of influence whatsoever?
As I've said, at no time did we direct the Attorney General, current or previous, to take any decision whatsoever in this matter.
He looks like a liar there.
But then yesterday, a whole different Justin Trudeau.
He was in British Columbia to campaign in a by-election in Burnaby, and he was asked about Jodi Wilson-Raybold.
Naturally, she's from BC.
She's news anywhere, but especially there.
So listen to him now and watch him.
Actually, you get the same message with the sound off.
In fact, let's do that.
Let's watch this clip first with the sound off.
Just watch it for a sec.
Just let it go.
Look at that.
He's got a bit of a grin.
Look at those eyes.
He's got that sparkle in his eyes.
It's a little bit frisky.
He doesn't look sullen anymore.
He's got the eyebrows going on.
Just let it roll a bit.
He's not sad anymore.
Look at that.
Here comes the smile.
Here comes the smile.
Yeah, yeah.
Just watch.
He looks like a winner.
Look, oh, here he comes.
Here it comes.
He looks like a winner who has won.
Okay, now let's listen to him.
Let's listen to him.
But you already know what he said.
Take a listen.
Now, I have met with Minister Wilson-Raybold a couple of times already since arriving in BC yesterday.
We spoke about our shared goals for our country and for this government.
Minister Wilson-Raybold's Dilemma00:09:36
She confirmed for me a conversation we had this fall where I told her directly that any decisions on matters involving the Director of Public Prosecutions were hers alone.
I respect her view that due to privilege, she cannot comment or add on matters recently before the media.
And I also highlight that we're bound by cabinet confidentiality.
In our system of government, of course, her presence in cabinet should actually speak for itself.
But you knew what he was saying just by looking at that smug smirk.
Let me translate.
Ha ha!
I'm the only one in this argument who can talk about it because I'm not freeing Jody Wilson-Raybold from any confidentiality requirements.
So you can pester her all you like, but you're only going to get my side of the story.
And by the way, she obviously likes me.
She obviously trusts me and respects me.
And you know that because she's still in my cabinet.
So obviously she's pleased with everything.
I mean, if she wasn't, she'd quit or I'd fire her, right?
There was an implication there.
Not only was Wilson Raybold happy to be part of Team Trudeau, but he still has some power over her.
Because of course, every cabinet minister serves only the pleasure of the prime minister.
She still had something to lose.
He still had power over her.
That grin, though, that grin.
I don't think she liked that grin.
That grin works on teenage girls.
Teenage girls love that grin.
But not a 47-year-old cabinet minister who was just sacked as justice minister for not going along with Quebec corruption.
So she quit.
Trudeau's never had that happen to him before.
Oh, Scott Bryson quit in the midst of a scandal, too, but that's because he's in deep political trouble.
I mean, no one has quit Trudeau's cabinet on principle.
That's quite rare these days, isn't it?
Look at her letter resigning.
She quit as Veterans Affairs Minister, but look about two-thirds of the way down.
Could I quote?
She says, I'm aware that many Canadians wish for me to speak on matters that have been in the media over the last week.
I am in the process of obtaining advice on the topics that I am legally permitted to discuss in this matter.
And as such, I've retained the Honorable Thomas Albert Cromwell, CC, as counsel.
Oh, just that.
Oh, she's lawyered up.
But with just a former Supreme Court judge as a lawyer, no biggie.
You know, kind of guy you get to do a real estate deal for you.
Oh my god, a former Supreme Court judge is your lawyer.
And I don't know if you noticed, she signed that letter Puglas.
You look at that.
You see it respectfully?
Puglas, the honorable.
So that's an Aboriginal name, which actually means honorable, honorable host.
As in, you can't buy her off with a few shiny baubles, Justin.
Jody Wilson Raybold's dad, Bill Wilson, has been raging against Trudeau on behalf of his daughter.
Here's a Facebook post.
You know, he's an Aboriginal politician, too.
He fought against Pierre Trudeau back in the day.
He says he hasn't spoken about confidential matters with his daughter, but she knows how to fight and won't dishonor herself or her family.
I believe that.
Can I read to you a bit from a recent interview he did with McLean's magazine?
Let me just read a bit.
He says, they said to him, do you believe she'll come away from this clean?
And he said, I believe so.
I believe she could lose her career as a white politician.
You don't cross SNC Lavillan and get away with it.
I think her career could be in jeopardy, but why not?
If your career is based on dishonesty, lose it.
If your career hinges on integrity, then keep your integrity.
And they ask him again, even if she's cleared in all this, you still think her career is in jeopardy.
And her dad answered, I don't think there's any question about that.
Look at what young Trudeau did to her.
Kicked her in the teeth and put her in veterans affairs.
There's no cabinet position lower than that.
He kicked her as far down in the cabinet hierarchy as you could possibly go.
The next lowest is Indian affairs.
Ouch, ouch, ouch.
That's probably true.
But you know, there's no depth to which politicians will not sink, will not debase themselves to.
If it buys them some perks and power, I mean, David Lehmetty, the newest justice minister, he's not only said that he doesn't think any investigation in this whole thing is necessary, he actually told reporters that he might just let SNC Lavillan off the hook anyways.
He's still considering dropping the charges against him in the middle of all this.
So yeah, I wonder what else he's agreed to do to keep his job.
LeMetti, at least, is a qualified justice minister.
And I don't mean that he's just that he's an obedient liberal.
I mean, he's a law professor, regarded as smart.
You can't say the same for most of Trudeau's affirmative action hires, though.
I mean, Maryam Monsef, just a walking, talking joke.
Catherine McKenna, aka climate Barbie.
Bardish Chagar, the least accomplished of them all, perhaps.
Christy Duncan.
None of these cabinet ministers are of any note.
Monsef herself, a fraudulent refugee.
Remember?
She's the one who lied and continued to lie as an adult about the circumstances in which she came to Canada as a refugee.
Remember this?
So you were born in Afghanistan, correct?
I believe I was.
Oh my God, what a liar she wasn't.
In fact, she lied on her refugee application to get in.
Seriously, come to think of it, Christy Duncan also lied.
She said she was a Nobel Prize winner in her campaign materials.
In fact, the Nobel Committee has never even heard of her.
These are grifters and graspers, and they were only too happy to do a deal with Trudeau.
He'd hire them for his cabinet as race and gender tokens.
And in return, for this salary top-up and perks and prestige, they would give him political cover to do whatever he wants, including, for example, getting away with groping Rose Knight, a reporter in Creston, B.C. All these women knew that was part of the deal.
Cover for Trudeau and keep your job.
They're thrilled.
It's the best job any of them will ever have.
They have no real skills.
What can Maryam Monsef do in the real world?
In Trudeau's world, recruiting Jody Wilson-Raybold was the best of all, though.
An Aboriginal woman, a woman of color from the West Coast, as justice minister no less, daughter of a hereditary Indian chief.
In the poker game of political correctness, that's the royal flush.
Look at that.
Look at that picture.
Look at that.
Trudeau giving her the googly eyes.
Her beaming with real pride.
And look at in the background there.
You got to make sure you see them.
Gerald Butts, principal secretary, Katie Telford, chief of staff, watching approvingly.
They're the SNC Lavalan crew.
I don't think Jodi Wilson-Raybold knew it then.
Oh, she sure knows it now.
She thought she was going to be a real justice minister.
Look at that look on her face.
That wasn't the look of someone getting a bone thrown to her.
That was someone who said, this is a great opportunity.
Didn't she know?
Didn't she know that like Maryam Monsef and Bartis Chagger and Catherine McKenna, Christy Duncan, and the rest, didn't she know her only purpose was window dressing?
To do what she was told?
To defend the Montreal mafia there of Trudeau and Butts?
What delicious irony that she is the only one in Trudeau's cabinet who actually took her job seriously and acted with integrity and loyalty to the whole country, to the law, to Queen Elizabeth, you could say.
How do you think this is going to go over with everyone and anyone who believed the googly eyes, Trudeau?
The friend to all, lovable, huggable Trudeau of every gay pride parade, of every Aboriginal photo op, of every ethnic gathering, Jody Wilson-Raybold proves it's all a lie.
It's all just for show.
When push comes to shove, Trudeau is not about every ethnic group and grievance group and race and gender group.
No, no, that's all fake.
When push comes to shove, he answers to Neil Bruce, the CEO of SNC Lavalan, whose company lobbied the PMO directly a dozen times to push Jodie Wilson-Raybold around.
Trudeau chose SNC Lavalan over her.
It was a lie.
So much of Trudeau is a lie.
It's fake.
It's shallow.
He has this generic Aboriginal tattoo on his shoulder.
Look at him.
How cringe is that?
It was cool and woke before.
Just ask him.
No, no, that's not cultural appropriation.
No, no, no, never.
It was proof of how cool Trudeau is.
Cool enough to appoint Jodi Wilson Raybold to justice minister.
He just never expected her to do any thinking on her own.
She had too much to think.
Come to think of it, Trudeau has said and done strange things about Indians before.
Hey, do you remember this?
We're both known for our long hair on the hill.
Let's say the loser gets a haircut.
He resisted back a little bit, you know, pointing out that hair has a cultural significance for First Nations peoples.
Solicitor-Client Privilege Fears00:15:37
And I said, I know, that's why I proposed it.
When a warrior cuts his hair, it's a sign of shame.
So it's very apropos.
Guys, yeah, I absolutely know I was shaming an Aboriginal senator, Patrick Brezza.
Yeah, I know.
I know.
You're going to shave your head.
Because I know that's how to humiliate you.
You guys.
I think that's the real Justin Trudeau.
He uses Aboriginal imagery, tattoo or haircut or justice minister, just to pursue his own interests and those of his buddies.
Well, now he's met someone who won't go along with it.
I wonder how this is going to end.
I wonder how this is going to end.
Stay with us for an extended discussion about this.
Now, I have met with Minister Wilson-Raybould a couple of times already since arriving in BC yesterday.
We spoke about our shared goals for our country and for this government.
She confirmed for me a conversation we had this fall, where I told her directly that any decisions on matters involving the Director of Public Prosecutions were hers alone.
I respect her view that due to privilege, she cannot comment or add on matters recently before the media.
And I also highlight that we're bound by cabinet confidentiality.
In our system of government, of course, her presence in cabinet should actually speak for itself.
Well, that was Justin Trudeau yesterday saying, well, look, the fact that Jodi Wilson Raybold, who I allegedly fired, according to the Globe and Mail, the fact that she's still a loyal cabinet minister, that tells you everything you need to know.
She's totally behind me.
Well, today, Jodi Wilson-Raybold quit cabinet, sending shockwaves through the entire political system, I would say.
Let me quote two lines from it.
Dear Prime Minister, with a heavy heart, I am writing to tender my resignation as the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defense.
And let me skip down about two-thirds of the way down.
She says, I am aware that many Canadians wish for me to speak on matters that have been in the media over the last week.
I'm in the process of obtaining advice on the topics that I am legally permitted to discuss in this matter, and as such, have retained the Honorable Thomas Albert Cromwell, C.C., as counsel.
And just one last point.
She signs it Puglis.
That is her aboriginal name above her English name, Jodi Wilson-Raybold.
That is a fighting document.
The fact that she's retained a former Supreme Court judge to give her advice, to tell her what to do and how to talk about this, is very interesting to me.
There are real questions about whether or not she actually has solicitor-client privilege on this matter that she has to submit to.
Justin Trudeau, of course, could waive any such privilege and say, oh, you're free to talk.
I release you from that.
But he won't.
The government's in a panic.
As we record this, Trudeau has already delayed his press conference today several times, getting his ducks in a row, I imagine.
The crisis is spreading, and joining us now is someone who I think is uniquely positioned to talk about this.
Let me just tell you his biography.
You'll guess who I'm talking about.
Former lawyer to a prime minister, former boss of a national law firm, someone who knows law and politics and where they overlap.
I'm talking about our friend Mandine Montenegrino, the boss of Think Sharp, who joined us now via Escape from Ottawa.
Holy cow, Manny, what a challenge Trudeau has gotten himself in.
I'm just for one second, before we get into it, if you were his lawyer, and I know you never would be, but you were the lawyer of the prime minister, if you were Trudeau's lawyer, what would your simplest advice to him be?
I'd say to Justin Trudeau, what do you think he should do?
And whatever he said, I'd say do the opposite.
Manny, come on.
All right.
Let's get serious.
Here's what's there is so much, so much in this discussion that we're going to have.
What the Prime Minister did yesterday was egregious.
Here he is.
He's protected by solicitor-client privilege, yet goes out and speaks not only for himself, but tries to speak for the once attorney general.
I mean, that is egregious.
If you have solicitor-client privilege, don't speak.
Do not.
So he sat there and purported to speak for her.
That must have outraged.
And then he gave two veil warnings to her.
You're caught by cabinet confidentiality and you're caught by solicitor client.
So you do not speak.
What does she do the next day?
She resigns from cabinet, so she has no cabinet responsibility or confidentiality, and she retains a top judge, a judge of the Supreme Court who's retired to give her advice to speak.
That's what she's done.
And it is incredible that the Prime Minister would have so much arrogance to treat the independent Attorney General who's there to protect the justice of all Canadians.
I mean, Ezra, we've had the Canadian Bar Association.
We've had the Civil Liberties Union.
We've had every lawyer say what he has done is wrong.
And he's taking on Canada's justice system.
And thank God we have our ex-attorney general that sees fit to put the justice system.
And I find it ironic that an Indigenous woman is protecting our justice system, which stems back to common law, England.
And there she is protecting for all Canadians our justice system against a privileged prime minister who hides behind his privilege.
Now, Ezra, there are more and more terrible things about this file.
We have the new Attorney General that won't even, or won't even interview the past Attorney General who's been so courageous.
He won't even interview her.
We have the Ethics Commissioner just seeing enough information to set up an investigation, yet the new Attorney General, David LeMetti, won't even interview anybody in this crisis.
He's not upholding his duties as Attorney General.
We have the Prime Minister who's been found guilty five times by an ethics commissioner, which is a judge, virtually a judge.
It's a quasi-judicial body.
Five times as being, and very, very important breaches.
One of them is he failed to recuse himself.
The prime minister was found guilty for failing to recuse himself, i.e. not having the judgment to walk away from a conflict situation.
And that's similar to what he's doing at the PMO or the accusations that he's doing.
He was found by the ethics commissioner to not to be credible.
Now, that is the first time in history a prime minister was found not to be credible by a justice, a judicial officer.
Now, we know what not credible means.
The judge thinks they lied.
That was on the issue of he's a friend.
The Aga Kong was a friend.
Well, that was his excuse.
A judge said, no, I don't take your word.
And when you have a judge saying that or a judicial officer saying that, and then you have the Attorney General believing every word that the Prime Minister is saying and will not investigate, when there's evidence that he was found not to be truthful by another jurist, it's frightening.
Many, you've said so many things.
I've been taking some notes.
Can I unpack a few of these different things?
Because each one of them is a devastating point.
And we haven't even talked about what was said in Atlantic Canada yesterday in the trial of the suspended Vice Admiral, Mark Norman.
And I guess that's another point.
But let me ask you about solicitor-client privilege.
As I described it yesterday, it's sort of like when you go confess something to a priest or tell something to your doctor.
There's sort of a privilege about that that's a deep secret that the priest can say, oh, I'm not going to tell anyone.
And that's what solicitor-client privilege is.
It's on an occasion of, because public policy is you want people to be able to have very candid conversations, even if it's embarrassing.
You want them to know it's secret.
But isn't one of the rules, I mean, I'm a former lawyer myself, Manny.
Obviously, I didn't have as much practice as you.
But isn't one of the things about solicitor-client privilege is if the client, which in this case presumably is Trudeau, if he starts to blab about what was discussed, that waives or voids the privilege.
So if he said, well, I can't tell you what we discussed, it was super secret.
And if he would stop there, that's one thing.
But then if he says, oh, and it was great and we said this and we said that, that's waived.
And now there's no more privilege.
Am I right legally in that, Manny?
Well, I think, yes, you are right.
I mean, privilege, first of all, there's a whole question whether there is a solicitor-client privilege between the Attorney General exercising her duty and whoever.
You know, the Prime Minister is not her client.
I will certainly say this.
Where these discussions were happening were the Prime Minister's office.
There were at least 10 people in that room.
They don't enjoy privilege.
I do not know why the new Attorney General or anyone else or the media is not interviewing these 10 people.
They don't enjoy privilege.
They never retained the Attorney General.
So they are PMO staffers, each one of them.
The RCMP should be walking in and asking questions because this is about the most serious allegation you can have, which is obstruction of justice.
They don't enjoy privilege.
Whether the prime minister enjoys privilege, that's questionable.
There are other attorney generals that have said, no, there's no privilege.
The attorney general's responsibility is to the crown.
It isn't to a particular person.
And so I think, and that is why she has, I believe that she has received a note, a letter, a threatening note, a letter saying, don't speak.
I claim privilege.
And if you speak, I will come after you.
So she's retained counsel, and she's retained great counsel.
There is no privilege.
You'll find out that there'll be a legal decision by the eminent Supreme Court Justice Cromwell to say, there is no privilege does not lie here.
You know, Manny, you're so right.
Of course she's received a letter saying you don't say a word.
I bet that letter was written, if not by Gerald Butts, by some maybe a Justice Department lawyer saying, you hush up.
Because it is, I've heard people say Trudeau was not the client.
I mean, it's not a personal relationship.
Absolutely not.
And I think he was blabbing.
I think he provoked her yesterday when he said, ha, the fact she's still in cabinet tells you all they need to know.
I met with her twice.
That's the problem.
I mean, I think that was too much for her.
Let me talk about the new Attorney General, David LeMetty, who's a law professor from McGill, actually from the exact same constituency where SNC Lavalan is headquartered.
I want to play a short clip from over the weekend where Evan Solomon of CTV did a really good job of just sort of shining a light on the fact that Lehmeti has shown a tremendous lack of curiosity, Manny, that his only source of info, if I'm listening to this clip correctly, he didn't ask the Prime Minister tough questions.
He didn't ask Gerald Butts tough questions.
He didn't even talk to his predecessor, Jody Wilson-Raybold.
He just watched the news and said, oh, Trudeau said he didn't do anything wrong.
That's good enough for me.
Here, take a quick look at this clip.
How can you say with any degree of certainty that there was no pressure put on her if you don't know?
Who told you there was no pressure?
The Prime Minister has said publicly, and I'm basing, the Prime Minister said that the allegations contained in the Globe and Mail article were false.
The Prime Minister has said that he did not direct my predecessor.
So I'm basing it on what he has said publicly.
If you're a justice minister, is that what he said he didn't direct?
Is he skating using legal language around the idea that there's pressure, that there's room.
He may have pressured her in other ways.
The Prime Minister's office.
Are you 100% confident that there was no pressure in any way, shape, or form?
I can't.
Look, I can't speak to a relationship that I wasn't privy to.
That's clear.
But what I can repeat to you and to Canadians is what the Prime Minister has said.
Manny, just out of curiosity, I mean, just out of due diligence, just out of meticulousness, wouldn't you ask a question?
I don't know anyone who would say, oh, yeah, I saw some guy on TV.
He said he didn't do it.
So that's like, that's the top legal officer in Canada saying just some political soundbite's good enough for him.
There's nothing to see here.
That was cringeworthy.
Well, that is actually more egregious to what he's doing to the administration of justice than the alleged obstruction of justice that may have happened at the PMO.
The fact that we have the Attorney General, when you have a serious issue raised, you have a minister that was fired from her job, a minister that's not retired, and not investigate.
I mean, I simply put it to this.
I think I did a tweet to where there will be no crime in Canada if that's the standard of the Attorney General.
If all the accused has to say is it never happened and no further investigation about the victims or anyone else, there are no crimes in Canada.
We have solved all crimes in Canada because all you need is the accused to say nothing happened.
It is egregious.
I am dumbfounded that this, that, you know, I'm also embarrassed that he's an Italian.
I'm an Italian.
I'm an Italian lawyer.
And I tell you, every lawyer, I have, there is unanimity on this with liberals, conservatives, anybody that practiced law or has been in law is offended by this.
How this one lawyer that's now the attorney general, and who was a professor, I might add, it is appalling what he's doing.
Duffy's Critique of Attorney General00:09:36
This David LeMetti, I don't know how he could be sleeping at night, watching what's going on, especially when you have the ethics commissioner.
The ethics commissioner has no teeth.
That legislation, he can't do anything but investigate and say, I found wrong.
The attorney general has available to him the crown's department, the RCMP, the resources and the criminal code.
He chooses not to use that and let this poor and let the ethics commissioner do the work.
It is embarrassing and appalling that the justice in Canada is not being done, and our attorney general is simply not doing what a first-year law student would know what to do.
Hey, can I ask you a question about LeMetty?
Because I was going through the federal lobbyist registry.
So when SNC Lavalan was making its rounds on Parliament Hill, they met with a lot of people.
And I should say, I think lobbying is okay.
I think it's a fancy way of saying bringing something to the attention of a politician.
I think there's some people that, just out of good judgment, maybe a politician should never meet with.
But if you're the president of a major company, I think it's probably okay for someone to meet you.
But they lobbied David LeMetti personally about 18 months ago.
And here's the copy of that communication report.
He was parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Industry at the time.
But they had a private meeting with him about a year and a half ago.
And, you know, maybe that's fine.
In fact, I don't think that's a problem itself.
But here's the question.
If they convinced him of something, if they persuaded him of something, if he agreed to go to bat for them, if he agreed to pass on a message for them, if he took any notes on that, I think that's all relevant to whether or not it's good enough for him to say, oh, I see nothing, I hear nothing.
Because if he would have said to them in any way, you guys make a good case, or I didn't know what to think, but you've changed my mind on this, or I promise I'll pass on a message to Jody Wilson-Raybold.
If he would have indicated at all that his heart was moved by them, wouldn't that be a reason that the world could say, well, you're biased, Mr. Lamani.
You indicated that you were on their side, and now you've moved from just someone who was lobbied to sort of a decision maker, and that's inappropriate.
You should recuse yourself.
What do you think of that, Manny?
Yeah, absolutely.
You don't have to, Ezra, you do have to get into whether there was bias or not.
That is, there's a simple apprehension of bias.
Once you meet with someone, and now you're the attorney general, and I guess he got this job as attorney general.
He never knew that when he was lobbied by SNC.
And that lobbying was proper and it was right.
And I agree with you.
And of course, every MP should be able to meet with anybody.
But once you are now put in the position of Attorney General and you're dealing with the issue of obstruction of justice and you had been lobbied, you have only one duty, and that is to recuse yourself from this file or step down as Attorney General.
You can't deal with it.
Now, the great oddness is the Prime Minister had that very same problem, and he was found to be guilty of the Ethics Act for not recusing himself when he stood and gave a chunk of money to a person that he took a $200,000 gift from.
It's very simple.
He shouldn't be in the room.
If you're going to take a $200,000 gift, don't be in the room when you're giving someone $20 million.
That's very simply understood.
And LeMetti knows, must know that the moment he became Attorney General and this file hit his door and he was made attorney general on this file, he should have said to the Prime Minister, no, I can't become Attorney General because I met and I have to recuse myself.
And I'm sure they had that discussion and I'm sure they said, forget about it.
You don't have to worry about recusing.
Go ahead and save me.
You know, I saw that the PMO and their message repeaters were saying, oh, the Ethics Commissioner is looking into this.
I sense that that is their way of saying, well, we know that the Ethics Commissioner doesn't have all the teeth of other possible inquiries.
Doesn't have the power or the resources of the RCMP.
Doesn't have, like, you're not going to have a wiretapped by the Ethics Commissioner.
You might have that if you're the RCMP.
So it's their way of saying, okay, who's the weakest, tamest judge there is?
And even if they convict, it'll be a $200 fine and an embarrassment.
So I think they looked and said, uh-oh, we're in deep trouble here.
I mean, SNC Lavalan is being prosecuted for paying $48 million in bribes.
So we're already in heavy, heavy criminal territory here.
And they said, oh, just give it to the kindergarten cop.
Give it to the gentlest of all.
And to me, it looks like they're saying, well, let's preempt an RCMP investigation.
Remember, it was the cops who went after Mike Duffy.
Right.
And that was, whatever you think of Mike Duffy, they brought in the full police squad.
Here, Trudeau just wants some baby cop to take it on.
I think that shows that he's trying to damage control.
Absolutely.
I mean, there's no question about it.
This does not belong in the Ethics Commissioner's hands.
This is not about ethics.
This is about saving Canada's judicial system, saving Canada's rule of law.
The Ethics Commissioner is the least person equipped to do that.
This is probably one of the most serious charges you can have, obstruction of justice.
It is so serious, Ezra, that we have two Canadians in jail in China because we have said to China, we removed an ambassador to China, McCallum.
We have said to the world that the rule of law of Canada is so important that Canadians can perish in jail in China because rule of law is everything.
We understand that.
And while he said that, in two instances, at least right now, one was, of course, what we have before us right now, which is the SNC Lavalin, whether there was a destruction of justice.
And the second one is by Judge Perkin McVeigh, who said in open court that, well, there goes the independence of the Crown Prosecution Office because it was influenced by the PMO.
And this is in the Norman trial case.
We have two trials or two situations where the Prime Minister's, allegedly the Prime Minister's office is obstructing justice.
And we have Canadians.
And Ezra, and I said this to my wife, my heart goes out to the Canadians that are caught in jail because of this prime minister who has now made it very clear that he has obstructed and he will.
And China is looking at this and saying, this is an absolute joke, this government.
Yeah.
You know, Manny, you refer to the case that's going on in Atlantic Canada right now.
We haven't gone deep on it on this show.
So just to remind our viewers, here's a story in the CBC called Norman's Defense, accuses Trudeau, PMO, of attempting to direct prosecution.
And that quote you mentioned by Judge Heather Perkins-McVeigh, she said, so much for the independence of the PPSC.
That stands for the Public Prosecution Service of Canada.
So a judge is saying that.
Just a quick reminder.
It's a vice admiral of the Navy, Mark Norman, who has been blamed, who has been charged with leaking confidential material.
And as his legal defense goes deeper and deeper, it is clear that there were political machinations to blame him.
Scott Bryson resigned from cabinet.
A lot of people think it's...
So I think it's fair to say that Trudeau has now lost two cabinet ministers over this interference in judicial matters.
That's...
That's crazy.
There's a third aspect to Ezra that I want to bring to your attention, and that is obstruction of the defense of a vice admiral.
The defense council is trying to obtain documents.
And it's been obstructed by the PMO, and they're not delivering documents, and they're subpoenaing it through a judge.
Now, I can't, I do not understand for the life of me how the government of Canada is holding documents that may assist the defense of a vice admiral.
And the defense counsel has to fight.
You may recall during the Duffy case, and the Duffy case was $90,000 worth of expenses that were paid back.
Not only did everyone cooperate at the PMO's office, cooperate with the Crown's office, but the Prime Minister waived his privilege in order to get all the information before the courts to assist the courts.
We have obstruction after obstruction after obstruction with this PMO government.
A Strong Woman Principle00:03:51
It's incredible.
Manny, I'd tell you I could talk with you all day about this, but I know you've got to go.
I want to raise one last thing.
Sure.
And it's about Jodi Wilson-Raybold herself.
I disagreed with her on certain policy matters, as one would expect.
She's a liberal, I'm not.
But I have to say, I think you accurately said it.
It's quite something to watch her stand up for the rule of law from an Anglo-Saxon legal tradition.
She's an Aboriginal activist, as was her dad, but she believes enough in the law that she wasn't willing to bend to Trudeau's political demands if what we think has happened.
Here's what's happening here.
I want to ask you or point out one last thing and get your comment on it.
I mentioned that in her resignation letter, she signed it Puglis, P-U-G-L-A-A-S, which is an Aboriginal name, I think, that her grandma gave her.
So it's very, now her English name is underneath that, but it's sort of resonating that she's doing this for the generations.
She's doing this out of some deep, like I thought that was a very interesting touch.
And her dad, who is a political activist in his day too, who went head to head with Justin Trudeau's dad, Pierre Trudeau, her dad isn't bound by any confidentiality.
He's Facebooking up a storm on this, and he says, finally, Jody will be able to speak honestly, and we're fighting.
I think that Justin Trudeau loves appointing quotas and tokens to cabinet.
He says so himself.
He boasts about how many of this race and that gender.
And in many cases, they are just tokens.
They'll do whatever he says just to cling on to power.
But I think the beautiful, delicious, poetic, karmic irony here, Manny, is that the ultimate box checker, women, Czech, Aboriginal, Czech, West Coast, Czech, progressive, Czech, actually turned out to be the one who believed in things so deeply that she refused to be just window dressing.
And Trudeau doesn't know how to fight that because he's used to emoting and affirmative action.
She is actually a woman of principle, it seems to me, and he doesn't even know how to fight her.
What do you think of that?
No, absolutely.
And there is another woman of principle, Leona, that crossed the floor.
There are great women on both sides of the aisle, and the great ones stand up and they speak to truth and speak to power.
And we've seen two from the liberal side.
It's very hard.
I suspect there's more that's going to happen.
I will say one thing that I'm very proud of Puglis' father.
I am a dad of very strong, strong, bright, brilliant woman.
And she is combative.
She is strong.
And I could see that if it was my daughter and she was in that situation, she would stand up strong and I would be by her side.
So I give great kudos to dad stepping up.
And, you know, there's no greater bond than a dad and a daughter.
And it could never be outdone by the faux feminism of the prime minister.
He didn't understand that great relationship.
And I'm glad to see it played out.
I saw his Facebook statement.
He's a tough man, a tough dad, a tough man, a tough dad with tough daughters.
Don't get pushed around by fake feminists.
Wow, that's a really nice way to end our conversation.
Manny, you're so right on that.
I should note that Trudeau was scheduled to have press conferences.
The time has been moving, so we were recording this before Trudeau's final press conference.
Who knows?
Trudeau's Final Press Conference?00:03:51
It might not even happen today.
But we'll be sure to follow the story in the days ahead.
Manny, as always, thank you so much for providing from a political and legal point of view.
It's just great, and we look forward to talking to you again.
Great.
Thanks a lot, Ezra.
All right, that's our friend Manny Montenegrino, former chairman of a national law firm, former lawyer to Prime Minister Stephen Harper, and the CEO of Think Sharp.
He joined us today via Skype from Ottawa.
Stay with us.
More ahead on The Rubbing.
Hey, welcome back to my monologue yesterday about the SNC-Lavalin scandal.
We talked about it again today.
Jay writes, too big to jail.
Well, don't laugh.
Cabinet was asked to blacklist SNC Lavalan from any government contracts.
As you know, the World Bank will not allow any country to use SNC Lavalan on a job if there's World Bank money.
Too corrupt.
So obviously Canada's cabinet was asked to do the same thing, but they literally said, we don't care how corrupt they are.
They're too big to fail.
Too big to jail is a good riff on that.
Paul writes, nobody does corruption quite like the Liberals.
It helps that they can generally count on the media party to cover for them.
You're exactly right.
And a $595 million bailout accelerates that.
That's why I'm amazed that Bob Fife got this published.
I mean, I pointed out that in December 2016, the Globe and Mail Report on Business Magazine, that's their flagship mag, had Neil Bruce, the SNC Lavalon boss, on the cover, and they said he was the hero who redeemed the company.
So literally two months ago, the Globe and Mail was part of SNC Lavalan's lobbying effort.
It's amazing the story ever saw the light of day.
Ron writes, Trudeau and his cabinet already should have been charged.
The opposition had numerous opportunities to bring him down and didn't.
Trudeau will just skate away the SNC Lavalan fiasco.
Clearly shows that corruption in Ottawa is deep, rampant, and full of rot.
Ron, I don't know how the opposition can bring him down because we don't have the kind of checks and balances in our system as they do in the United States.
For example, there's just simply no way that you could get the kind of independent special counsel like Mueller, who's been on a two-year, $20 million wild goose chase, frankly, trying to find proof that Donald Trump is a Russian spy.
He's got, what, a dozen staff hunter-killers investigating, subpoenaing, indicting.
He hasn't found anything on Trump, but just he's just knocking over everything in the China shop.
That doesn't happen in Canada.
It just doesn't happen in Canada.
There was something like that, some inquiry, I don't even remember what it was, about 30 years ago, and I think it was, I think Cret Chan just pulled the plug on.
I'm trying to remember the details.
Yeah, we don't have that.
Trudeau wanted the Ethics Councilor to look into things because it's like a $200 fine if you're convicted.
Now it looks like the Liberals might be agreeing to having the Justice Committee of Parliament look into it.
They don't have police power to do raids, to do search warrants, to do wiretaps.
This is a criminal matter.
SNC Lavalan did admit to paying $48 million in bribes, did admit to getting over $100 million worth of payoffs in Libya.
This is crime at the highest levels.
I think it's going to take a tiny bit more than a few MPs having half an hour to ask scripted questions in a play fight.
So yeah, I'm going to disagree with you on this one, Ron.
I don't believe that the opposition, I don't believe anything in our Canadian system has the power to take on corruption like this other than the police.