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Oct. 25, 2011 - Rush Limbaugh Program
34:10
October 25, 2011, Tuesday, Hour #3
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America's truth detector.
America's real anchor man.
The most trusted man in radio.
The most trusted man in media.
A general all-around good guy, well known radio racantur Rush Limbus, serving humanity with vocal vibrations, coast to coast, all across the fruit and plain.
800 282-2882 is the phone number if you want to be on our program.
Email address.
So we do read the emails, as you know, as I picked out a doozy from yesterday.
Email address, Lrushbaugh at EIBNet.com.
Some news items here.
A politician, congressman from Ohio, is suing the people who defeated him in his re-election bid.
He is suing for loss of livelihood.
And guess what?
He's a Democrat.
His name is Steve Dryhouse or Drehouse.
I'm not sure how he pronounces it.
D-R-I-E-H-A-U-S.
He's suing the Susan B. Anthony list.
That's a group that supports pro-life candidates for Congress.
So a guy who lost to congressional race is suing a U.S. District Court judge, Timothy Black, and a Obama appointee is allowing the lawsuit to go forward.
Now stop and think.
What if the guy wins?
What if he wins?
Yeah.
Constitutional entitlement to his city.
Well, no, it wouldn't be that.
It would be that he had a constitutional entitlement not to be haranged and harassed by the Susan B. Anthony list.
But an Obama appointee is allowing the case to go forward.
I got a note.
I got a note from a friend during the break.
Rush, you know, I'm really trying so hard to be open to Romney, and he just keeps making it harder.
There's a story here.
It's a combination CNN Washington examiner story.
Here's the headline.
Romney refuses to back Kasich against government unions.
Campaigning in Ohio today, Mitt Romney stopped by a Republican Party phone bank making calls in support of Governor Kasich's government union reform referendum.
But Romney refused to endorse the actual referendum.
CNN's CNN's what am I supposed to do?
Oh, for the guy who wrote.
Oh, I'm not supposed to.
Well, he wants, I don't know what I'm supposed to do.
H.R. wants to know what am I supposed to do for the guy who's so pained here.
I try so hard to be open to Romney, and he's just making it harder and harder, and he's sending me the note.
So question is what's this guy want me to do about it.
At uh at any rate.
CNN's Peter Hambey called the scene an incredible moment in politics.
So Romney stopped by Kasich's phone bank.
Where they are trying to gin up calls in support of Governor Kasich's government union reform referendum.
This is a the Ohio version of what happened at Wisconsin.
But Romney refused to endorse the actual referendum.
And so my friend says he stops by for support, but won't endorse what's going on.
Kasich already signed his government union reforms into law in March of this year, not long after Governor Scott Walker in Wisconsin won his battle against government unions there.
But the Democrats, with the help of the AFL CIO, placed a referendum on next week's ballot issue too.
That would repeal the new law.
A vote for the referendum would keep the law.
A vote against it would repeal it.
Kasich's new law in Ohio bans government unions from bargaining over health insurance.
It requires that all government union members pay at least 10% of their wages toward their pensions.
It ends seniority rights as the sole factor in layoffs.
It replaces seniority pay raises with merit pay raises.
It bans government unions from striking and makes government union dues voluntary.
But government unions would still be able to bargain about many other topics, including pay and working conditions.
So this is this is Kasich's union reform law would ban government unions from bargaining over health insurance, would make all government union members Pay at least 10% of their wages toward their pensions.
Would end seniority rights as the sole factor in layoffs, would replace seniority pay raises with merit pay raises and so forth.
The Ohio Chamber of Commerce, the Columbus Dispatch, the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Tim Polenti, and multiple mayors have all backed Kasich's law.
The Cleveland Plain dealer even endorsed this baby.
Now what happened was that according to CNN, Romney expressed generic support for Kasich's efforts to curtail union rights, but he would not say whether he supports or opposes the specific measures in K6 reform plan.
He said that's up to the people of Ohio.
I'm I'm not going to get involved.
That's a question for the people of Ohio to make.
But see, these are clearly sensible things.
What what is the reluctance in getting behind these?
Well, obviously, doesn't want to tick off the unions in the Northeast or the unions anywhere.
But what are we going to have to do to get union votes?
Are we going to want to do what we're going to have to do to get union votes?
It's kind of namy pamby.
And this is actually not hard.
I mean, these reforms are total common sense reforms.
For crying out loud, you've got a liberal newspaper even endorsing it.
The Cleveland Plain Dealer.
And this is the kind of walking on egg shells approach here that is non-necessary.
Again, you go back to November 2010 and look what happened.
Let's do the opposite of walking on eggshells.
Let's go to last Friday night, Fox Business Network, the Neil Cavuto show.
And he's talking to casino mogul Steve Wynne.
And Kasuna uh Cavuto said the president will be having a campaign rally at the Bellagio.
It's safe to say that one casino executive who will not be there is the guy who used to own the Bellagio, Steve Wynne.
The policies of this administration have destroyed the working, the living standard of the working class in America.
What is ostensibly the base of the Democratic Party is taking the worst hit in history because of these unbelievably uninformed policies of this president and his colleagues who have fostered this ridiculous class warfare, these nonsensical policies that have been proven to be ineffective and unsuccessful everywhere they've ever been tried in the world.
That is Steve Wynne, who owns uh numerous casinos in uh Las Vegas, uh also in Macau.
Then Cavuto said, so is Obamacare the biggest factor for you, Steve, as far as making decisions down the road uh and helping out these two Israeli gentlemen, I guess, to expand there.
You you just you just wouldn't do it.
You couldn't do it because you you didn't see the light here?
I can't see the light.
I'm frightened to death about the future of business.
My friend Harry Reid hung up on me the other day for the first time in 40 years.
That's what it's come to.
I supported a Democratic Congresswoman named Shelley Berkeley.
I called her during Obamacare.
I said, Shelly, what are you doing?
How do you do this?
This is killing the unions and all of us that are supplying health care to our employees.
And she said to me, quote, quote, now this is not hearsay.
Shelley said to me, and she's running for the Senate.
Steve, I know it's terrible.
My husband's a doctor, he hates it too.
But if I don't vote for it, she will punish me, she being Nancy Pelosi.
If any businessman or any working person doesn't understand that this is a turning point in American history, then I'm afraid we're gonna get what we deserve.
Steve Wynne in uh in Las Vegas.
So Harry Reid hung up on him.
Look, the obvious question is why is he still voting Democrat after all this?
That would be my obvious question.
Why are you still voting for these people?
And I I you know I bet my answer would be they're going to win, and I need to be.
I need I need to be in good with the winners.
But here it hasn't helped.
With Obamacare, it didn't help.
This is amazing, talking about uh uh Democrat Congresswoman Shelley Berkeley.
I called her during Obamacare.
I said, Shelly, what are you doing?
She said, I know, I know it's it's it's it's it's horrible.
My husband's a doctor, it's he hates it too.
It's terrible.
But if I don't vote for it, she will punish me.
Meaning Pelosi.
If I don't vote for it, she will punish me.
Nancy Pelosi.
So and Steve Wynne, by the way, uh Steve Wynne is somebody who actually cares deeply about his employees.
One of the raps that big CEOs and and and uh large business operators get is that they don't care about their employees, that they exploit them just like they exploit the customers and everything.
Steve Wynne cares deeply about his employees, and I I've uh I've met a bunch of people work for the guy and they all love him.
They all love the heck out of him.
Now that you got malcontents here and there in every business, it's not universal, but he's uh he's he's pretty much universally liked and adored and respected by people that work for him, and he has a deep concern for them.
He tries to pay them as as as much as he can and and keep his uh his business profitable and uh and and operating.
But I I only have one quibble with him.
I the the working class hasn't been the base of the Democrat Party since FDR.
Uh the base of the Democrat Party doesn't work.
The base doesn't work.
That's exactly how they want it too, by the way.
I mean, there's no question of it.
Back to the phones we go.
We're uh next up in Newton, Iowa.
This is David.
Great to have you on the program, sir.
Hello.
Hey, Rush, thanks for taking my call.
You bet, sir.
Hey, uh, I have a question for you.
You you're uh uh willing, as as we all are, to recognize that all of our Republican candidates have flaws.
None of them are the perfect conservative, uh, like yourself.
And uh but Romney, all these things you're pointing out about Romney were known four years ago.
Uh Romney care was around four years ago.
Romney supported TARP.
Uh Romney uh was the one that acted like he was for you know against gun control.
He'd been a lifetime member of the NRA, and so on and so on, so on.
So why is it that you know you didn't recognize this back then and got all over Huckabee, for example, and uh yeah, certainly there's things about Huckabee I disagree with.
But why is it that one guy gets your wrath and the other guy gets your endorsement?
Like who has gotten my endorsement?
You said yesterday that Romney all but got your endorsement last time.
You said it.
But he didn't.
All beginning all but getting the rush boat.
You're looking if you had an entirely different field in 2008 than we have here.
There was you had you had McCain, you had the Huckster, you had Juliani.
Um are you Huckabee guy?
I think the Huckabee guys are still mad at me over overwhelming.
Huckabee himself was mad at me over what went down in 2008.
Are you a Huckabee guy?
Yes, I am.
I could have said you're still calling him names.
What?
What name?
Huckster.
Come on, Rush.
Oh, come everybody calls him the huckster.
That's fine.
But he had his flaws.
Romney had his flaws, but you decided to call say Huckabee's not a conservative, and Romney is.
Why is that?
I just said the other day that Romney's not a conservative either compared to this field.
So if if uh Huckabee would jump in here at the last minute, you'd you'd eliminate him from your candidates that could beat Obama and depends on what he would say Obama.
It depends on what he would say.
I'm not gonna reject Huckabee just because he's Huckabee.
Okay.
Well, he's a big pusher of the fair tax.
And was back four years ago.
Yeah, but he leaves conservatives you could get.
He got in bed with McCain back then.
That's what ticked me off about it all.
He got in bed with McCain last time to sabotage Romney.
Maybe you saw something Romney you didn't.
What?
Maybe he saw something in Romney you didn't.
Doesn't matter.
Doesn't you're You're asking me why I wasn't on the hucksters team.
You know, he called me too.
He was all upset.
He wanted he thought I'd mischaracterized him in a number of ways.
He called here.
He wanted to get on the air.
We got on the air.
We talked to him.
And he had his.
Okay, everything was cool.
Okay.
I just wonder if this time around, maybe you who are always ninety-nine point eight percent correct.
Point six.
That number's probably going up.
If you were this time around would uh give the man a fair shake.
He's not in the race.
Do you have news for us?
Is he going to get in the race?
Is he going to announce?
I don't know.
Well, if he gets I think he's still considering it.
Okay.
That's interesting.
That's it.
We give everybody a fair shake here.
Everybody gets a fair shake.
I'll tell you what, there's one guy out there that's showing he's got real brains.
Herman Cain.
Advertising on this program.
That sh I mean, that's a guy who obviously knows how to get results.
Thanks for the call.
Oh, Snurley.
Snurley can't believe people still ticked at me over 2000.
They're still ticked at me in general for not endorsing somebody.
Some people out there are still blaming me for Obama being elected because I wouldn't endorse anybody early.
Some people still blaming me for not joining Perot.
Some people still blaming me for for for for killing Perot's campaign.
Some people mad at me for not joining the Perot campaign.
It's um anyway, um I know he sounds like it happened yesterday.
It probably in his mind did.
He's probably been waiting all these years to finally get through and have out of here with me.
That's yeah.
Well, well, that was uh endorsing Clinton.
That was uh Yeah, that was good too.
Um that was that was a big, big day in EIB history when I endorsed Clinton.
All right, who's next?
Joey in Austin, Texas.
Hi Joey, welcome to the EIB network.
Great to have you here.
Thank you so much.
It is an honor to speak to you as usual.
And again, your uh monologue earlier regarding Steve Jobs and the upward mobility of the middle class definitely touched me in terms of being a small business owner here in Texas and a previously upwardly mobile middle class member.
But it did bring up one question, if I might ask.
Sure.
Um these are hard numbers haven't come through the public education system for me to deal with.
I'm joking, of course.
But um uh if uh 55% of his fortune is going away, I want to know how much Steve Jobs has actually paid to the federal government, because it occurs to me that all of this fortune he's amassed has already been taxed, or most of it already taxed once.
Is there a way that you can run the numbers and tell me how much money he's given to the federal government over the course of his career?
That would be very, very difficult because a lot of his wealth has been in stock and capital gains, and I don't know how he reported his income.
And I don't know what his losses were.
Uh jobs was uh nearly broke a couple of times, too.
So I that would be almost impossible to uh estimate.
As to as to his fortune now, if if uh if all of it goes to his wife, there won't be any tax due.
Uh the spouse can inherit 100% of it with uh with with no estate tax, but any that goes to uh any place else uh is subject to uh taxation.
But it's not even it at that, it's not quite that simple.
Uh and I I wish I could remember where I read this.
It was shortly after his death.
There were stories popping up over the immediate challenges.
Whoever was doing the estate planning of the jobs estate, they had not a whole lot of time to figure out what to do in order to preserve the vast majority of it.
Uh but I didn't get any details.
And that folks, that number is so way out of my league.
I've I I could not begin to even uh tell you what what the consequences are what they're gonna do with uh with eight billion.
I know what that the one of the great examples is Joe Robbie, who used to own the Miami Dolphins and the uh National Football League and the stadium, and Joe Robbie died, and his kids had to pay.
They had to sell the Dolphins to come up with the uh uh estate tax because it was his children who inherited.
And children do not escape the estate tax.
Spouses do.
So I I mean we we face the same difficulty in my family estate planning.
It just seems like I've always been told you two things you can avoid is death and taxes, but apparently after you die, you can't avoid paying taxes either.
So that's immortality for the thing.
Let me tell you something.
I I go round and round every year the estate planners uh want to talk to me about estate planning and and it seems that they think that the primary objective of any estate planning is going to be to keep money away from the government.
So they want to structure trusts, charitable donations, uh foundations, any number of things.
And I always say to them, yeah, but the problem with doing that is I am getting rid of all my money before I die.
I'm taking I mean yeah, but at least the government are gonna get it.
Well, I don't care, frankly.
I I want access to as much of it as I can before I die.
I don't want to have to shelter it all now while I'm still alive, so I can't get it just to keep the government from getting it sometime.
Uh I go round and round with them on it.
It's uh but it's all these things are very personal decisions that that people have to make with their estates.
And uh some people don't want to leave huge chunks of money to kids and nephews and nieces because it can ruin them if uh if if they don't have to work for it.
It's uh these are these are challenging decisions for uh for a lot of people.
So uh but as far as what the jobs family's paid prior to what the estate tax is gonna be, couldn't tell you.
It's gotta be significant, though.
Has to be huge.
Okay, so let's look at it.
Now, 2008, what do we have?
When we boiled it all down, we had McCain, Romney, and Huckabee.
Those were not happy days.
And when you boil it all down, folks, remember 2008, it was pretty depressing.
We had the media out there just creating this Messiah-like figure in Obama.
We had our side scared to death to even show up in his presence.
Much less saying about it.
We had Mark McKinnon quitting the McCain campaign, the first syllable of criticism.
And we had, in addition to McKay, we had we had we had Huckabee and uh and and McCain Romney.
Huckabee got behind McCain.
I thought McCain was the weakest candidate.
And Huckabee's uh uh issues were they had immigration issues that I wasn't particularly enamored of and uh and and furlough issues.
It was it was 2008 was we still could have won.
That's the amazing thing about we still go McCain picked a conservative to run with, and and if if it you know, going into the economic crisis, we were five points up in that race, even with all of the media assistance.
Now you talk about uh there there was there was Romney care even in two thousand, yeah, but there wasn't an Obamacare in 2008, and there wasn't somebody running around saying that Romney care was the basis for Obamacare in 2008.
So it's all kinds of uh uh differing factors, vagaries, if you will from uh from campaign to campaign.
Here's Brian in Saratoga Springs in New York.
Great to have you on the program.
Brian, hello.
Hi, Rush.
Rush, do you think Sarah Palin would release her supporters so we could have a true conservative uh presidential nominee?
Uh by release, do you mean endorse somebody and ask her supporters to vote for that person?
Uh good question.
I think that would be naturally would be natural occurrence.
I think there's four to choose from.
I don't know what she would do, but if she releases them initially, at least they can choose from those four.
What do you think?
Well, uh, wait a minute.
Which four are you Talking about well, in my humble opinion, I believe it's going to be Rick Santorm, Michelle Bachman, Herman Cain, um and uh probably Newt.
Okay.
So if she releases Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a second.
Those are gonna be the f one of those people is gonna be who uh Palin's gonna endorse.
Those are my in my humble opinion, I think those are the true core conservatives.
You know, the Bachman Centaurum, um I don't believe maybe Perry, but if she does release those supporters, uh Rush, uh that person will get the nomination.
Well of men.
If if if she asks her supporters to support a particular candidate in unison, uh perhaps, I'm I'm not I don't want to be misunderstood here.
I'm not sure she's got supporters to release.
I had a lot of friends that are not a big thing.
Well, yeah, but you generally say that you say that about somebody that's in the race that has people voting for them working for them, then they lose and they decide to ask their supporters to support somebody else.
That that that she never got in the race.
And to these Well, you you're right, Rush, but I'm a little confused with Sarah Palin and help me out here because she she and Batman came up with the term crony capitalism.
Actually, I think it started with Sarah, and then Bachman used it.
It seems like a natural alliance for uh Sarah Palin and Bachman, especially with their Tea Party record.
And there's millions of voters that would go that direction if Sarah Palin truly wants a conservative candidate.
So why would she not do that?
I haven't slightest idea.
I I don't know that she would or wouldn't.
I don't think she will.
I think she will eventually support a a con true conservative rush.
I don't know she'll do it.
We're gonna get Romney.
You know that, Roger.
I don't know that she'll do it before there's a nominee.
Oh, that's depressing.
Well, sh I could be wrong.
I don't want to I'm I'm not trying to depress you here.
I just I just I don't know.
I I really have I haven't the slightest idea what she would do.
There are so many Tea Party people out there waiting to hear what she has to say.
I hope she comes forward, Rush.
She would help our country.
Are you you you really think there are a lot of people out there who are not making a choice until they hear from her?
Yes.
Really?
Yes, I do.
Well, that's what people say about me, that there's a whole lot of people out there not making a choice until they hear from me.
You that's not your job, Rush.
I respect that.
Okay, why is it hers?
Why is it her job?
Uh because she's in the political world, and she has been a Tea Party advocate, cut spending, repeal Bamacare, and that fits into Santorm and Bachmann.
Romney does not fit there, either does Perry on immigration.
So I'm just curious as to why she wouldn't support someone because if she does it, she's so powerful, Rush.
And you know that.
She's so powerful.
If she did support a conservative candidate, they would give Romney a run for Well, she's got a pretty good track record in endorsements when she's out there in the primaries.
Uh she she does.
She didn't she didn't she didn't pick all winners, but she's uh she got a pretty good track record endorsing people that end up do winning.
Um do you think it might happen just to encourage me a little today?
Oh, it could very well happen.
It it it's it's uh uh at least fifty fifty that uh that it'll happen.
But you gotta realize now there's a lot involved in that.
Uh this is if she if she wants to run down the road, it's it's who it's it's gonna be very difficult.
Um I uh I'm I'm not sure that she would do it uh if she has political aspirations down the road because even though she's not in and she chooses somebody else, she is uh by definition uh elevating somebody above herself.
And I in this business I don't know that you do that.
So yeah, you wait till after the nominee is chosen and get involved, and that that's the safe play.
That's the thing to do for the sake of the party.
And there's the party to be considered here.
Uh a lot of these people will do what they do to remain in good favor with the party because the party's the vehicle.
You gotta build your machine within the party.
So I don't I don't it it's it's uh six of one half dozen the other on that as to uh as to what she'll do.
But you'll have fun waiting.
You'll you'll have you'll be filled with all kinds of anticipation uh waiting.
And I don't think nothing.
Palin, you when you do something like that, you burn a bridge.
I mean, you when you pick somebody, you're not picking four or five others.
And she may not want to burn a bridge that she's going to eventually have to cross herself.
So that just uh, you know, off the top of my fertile mind, those are my initial reactions.
I must confess I haven't even thought about that.
So you hit me with a question I have not applied my uh my vast intellect to.
So I'm sort of doing that here on the fly, thinking out loud, you know, giving uh pros and cons verbally here.
Now think about it further.
In the meantime, we move on, and we are going to uh what is it, Raleigh?
Is that right?
Richie, Raleigh North Carolina, you're next in the EIB network.
Hello, sir.
Good afternoon, Rush, and thank you for taking my call.
You bet, sir.
I I have an answer for you.
We had a question about who will be getting or benefiting from the approximate four billion dollars in estate taxes paid by uh Steve Jobs estate.
Yeah.
And you're right as usual.
It's not going to be the people of uh California or the U.S. It's kind of ironic about where it's going.
It'll be put in a general treasury funds, and some of it will be sent to China to pay the interest on the money we borrow from.
It's sort of ironic where they are assembling the products is where the uh benefit is going to go to.
Yeah, that's where his products are assembled.
Yeah, it'll be the circle of eye life.
Um it's interesting.
Jobs fortune ends up with the GICOMs.
Interesting.
I jobs paid himself a salary of a year a dollar a year.
Paid himself a salary of a dollar a year.
He had lots of Apple stock.
And that's uh a lot of his income put away in a lot of his wealth stashed away in in uh in various trusts.
Uh so it's not it's not uh altogether certain that there's going to be an estate tax on that money immediately.
If if it all goes to his wife, then there won't be a dime.
She will get it all, and then what she does with it upon her death opens up the estate tax aspect of it.
You can you can leave anything, you can give a spouse anything tax-free.
Everything you there's no estate tax on a spouse inheriting it.
Once you kick it to the kids or anybody else, the kids or anybody else, that's that's where the estate tax kicks in.
Yeah, exactly right.
It's like the the the gift tax, there's a there's a Congress did a weird thing with the gift tax in um uh December of last year when they were extending the Bush tax cuts.
Mostly uh up until last December, every individual has a one million dollar lifetime exemption on gifts, with one exception.
It it floats right now.
You can give an individual thirteen thousand dollars tax-free.
So a husband and wife can give an individual twenty-six thousand dollars-free.
If you give thirty thousand dollars to a couple, okay, you're four thousand dollars over the exemption, they take that away from your million dollars.
You have a million dollar exemption throughout your life.
If you use that up, the gift tax rate becomes forty-nine percent on the giver, on the donor.
So if you blow through your million dollars, now what happened in December of last year, that that one million dollars became five.
But nobody knows for how long.
So if somebody had blown through their one million dollar lifetime exemption, they were just given four million dollars additional to give away.
Well, charity's a different thing, but but but you can you can give any amount of charity you want.
Uh that that's not that's a charitable donation.
That comes under a different tax structure.
But if you want to just give somebody some cash, it could be anybody, anything for any reason, kid, what have you.
Right now you can give anybody $13,000 tax-free a year.
Next year give them 13.
But if you give them 20 or anything above 13, then you start eating into your million dollar exemption.
So now everybody has a $5 million exemption starting this year and going through next year, but nobody knows how long it's going to last.
Somebody thinks Congress screwed up.
When they figure it out, they'll change it.
And get rid of it.
Take it back down to the million.
When it comes to inheritance, same thing was the gift tax.
You can give a spouse anything.
No tax, period.
And it's the same thing with inheritance.
If the if the spouse inheritance inherits in total, there's no tax.
But once the spouse passes away, and then the money gets dispersed, that's where the estate tax kicks in.
Depending on how the estate planning has taken place, and it can get complicated, and that's why they're state planning lawyers to uh you know walk you all through this.
It's uh it's it's it's convoluted and complicated, and it's that's that way because the tax law is written to make it that way.
So theoretically, there won't be any, there won't be a dime of jobs as a state going to government if his wife gets it all.
Well, it's just it's it's just the tax it's the tax law, certainly.
It's not is it it's it's it's not so much who you give it to, it's the amount that you're allowed to give.
The spouse is the exception.
Everybody else, there's a limit on what you can give tax free.
The reason for it, let's say that you could give anybody any amount you wanted tax-free, then why would you ever employ them?
And you wouldn't you'd never have to pay income tax, they wouldn't have to pay income tax, you wouldn't pay gift tax, they wouldn't have what there wouldn't be any withholding.
There's a limit on what you can give so that people still have to be employed and paid a salary, so there are taxes on it.
And the reason there are taxes on gifts is to make sure that the income tax is not undercut.
Anyway, I'm long in this segment.
I must take a brief time out.
We'll be back and continue after this.
We had a call that we didn't have a chance to get to.
Guy from Philadelphia who thinks I am too generous, too nice to uh to some Republicans like Romney.
Call him back tomorrow.
I want to hear what his point is.
Too nice to these Republicans.
We'll talk to that guy and uh be revved and ready for whatever happens.
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