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Nov. 28, 2005 - Rush Limbaugh Program
36:41
November 28, 2005, Monday, Hour #1
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Welcome to today's edition of the Rush 24-7 podcast.
I don't want to affect any of uh any of you people with this, but I have to I am exhausted.
I I just I mean I I I had I just had a uh knockdown knock them sockam wacko weekend here, and I still haven't recovered from it.
Well, but I'm back and I'm glad to be back, and I know you're glad that I'm back because we're all happy.
And the EIB network and L Rushbow, America's anchor man firmly ensconced here in the prestigious Attila the Hun Chair at the one and only Limbaugh Institute for Advanced Conservative Studies.
Uh here's the telephone number if you'd like to be on the program today.
It's 800-282-288-2.
The email address is rush at EIBNet.com.
A couple of announcements here.
Uh before we get started, I want to continue to remind people the Adopt a Soldier program is just going great.
Guns, there's all kinds of people who um who want status reports.
We've we've got something like we've got over 12,000 donors here for the Adopt a Soldier program.
I kid you not, we've got already already over 12,000 donors, and I I cannot cannot thank you much.
And we're going to be matching all of these.
I'm going to be matching all these myself, so that that's that's that's uh uh you can double that.
And so if uh we just want to continue to put out the word to all of you in the U.S. And by the way, this is interesting.
I'm I'm getting some emails, not very many, but it made me stop and think.
I'm getting some emails from uh military personnel who say they love the idea, but they just they have a little problem accepting a freebie.
And I want to urge any of you in the United States military uh at home or abroad, or uh if you are a family member of a member of the military, don't don't don't let your sense of honor stand in the way here of signing up for the program and and uh and becoming uh part of the database of of qualified military personnel.
It's easy to do.
You just go to Rush Limbaugh.com, the home page of my website's very simple.
And we just have to verify that that uh uh the database members are actually legitimately military people, and we just require a little bit of information from you.
But uh, you know, many people are excellent at giving, as this program is as as is illustrating.
But you know, it is tough to receive, and the older you get, like I, I am lousy at receiving uh gifts.
I get embarrassed on my birthday.
These staff will tell you here.
I don't want any notice on my birthday.
No big deal to me to live another year.
Yep, yep, yep, yep, yahoo.
What's the achievement there?
Uh but I I have uh I've gone into training.
I've gone into deep training to learn how to receive gifts better because it's the giving, you know, you don't want to take away the pleasure of somebody giving you something by being a lousy receiver.
And I'm I'm not kidding.
Really uh how many times have you given somebody something and they destroyed your feeling of goodwill by acting, I don't want that, I can't take the oh no no.
Yes, and they make you they make you force it on them.
But learn to be a good receiver, folks.
We can all give, and it's it's uh actually it's fun to give.
There's no question as you get older, and uh the holiday season, of course, emphasizes this.
It's the giving that's fun.
Uh but for those of you in the military realize that uh there are I mean thousands and thousands of Americans.
Uh and and yeah, who want to show you uh how much they appreciate what you are giving.
You know, uh the there's there's there's a there's a an increased sense of respect and awe for the for the for the gifts that those of you in the military give everybody in this country and have since our founding uh every day.
So uh if you are a member of the military and and you're feeling queasy about accepting it, please don't.
Uh this is a great program.
And plus, it's uh if you're listening on the Armed Forces Radio Network right now, this is the only hour of the program today you will get, but with a uh an adopt a soldier uh subscription in uh made in your name and to you as uh as a thanks for your service to the country.
You'll get all three whenever you want them.
So simply go to Rush Limbaugh.com and and uh uh sign up and register yourselves and become uh uh an active member of our online database.
Now I've been I've been hinting, this is item number two.
I have been hinting over the uh past week or so that we were gonna be adding video downloads to our daily podcasts, and the announcement was made today, so let me Give you the details of it.
Starts December 12th.
Now, please keep this in mind because don't I don't want you to go to your podcast download this afternoon, look for the video that's not there and start flooding us with notes.
I didn't get the video with December 12th.
But here's what we're going to do.
Starting on December 12th, we're going to be supporting video iPods with a daily one-minute video podcast of the next day's morning update.
What happens after this program each day, I record the morning update, the morning commentary that runs on our 600-plus affiliate radio stations.
We're going to ditto cam the recording of the updates and make those available free of charge of just another complimentary service to uh current subscribers at Rushlinbaugh.com.
24-7 members will receive the morning update.
The afternoon it is recorded.
Every morning update's going to be a video file.
It'll be viewable on a video iPod and certain other portable video devices.
Or you can you can watch it right from your computer.
It'll work just like any other QuickTime file works.
So every afternoon, when subscribers get the audio podcasts of that day's program, they'll also get an extra file, which will be the video podcast of the next day's morning update.
This is an exclusive feature, an exclusive new feature of Rush 24-7 for members.
It'll be included as part of every subscription without any extra charge.
The quality will be superb.
The con well, the content is flawless, don't even worry about the content, because I'm in charge of that.
Now we've been testing this for the past two weeks.
And uh I went, I got a video iPod from my from my buds at Comp USA.
I went out there and and uh I've been testing, looking at some of the video that we have prepared for the testing here.
And it just it looks awesome.
It it uh just awesome on a video iPod.
So that's gonna start December the twelfth.
We're just making the announcement today to give everybody a heads up.
The basically two weeks from today is when it starts.
So don't expect any video downloads until December 12th.
Um so and this is uh another good reason, by the way, if you're planning on giving somebody a video iPod for the holidays, here's something useful to do with it, other than just download some of these trashy music videos uh that are out there and uh some of the television shows you can get.
Uh and it's uh, you know, we we size this, by the way, we'll sound these size these down line downloads to uh fit ideally and perfectly on a two-inch screen, and it'll happen every day.
Now, you don't need to do anything today.
This is I mean, nothing's gonna happen differently today.
It starts December twelfth.
Please don't write this afternoon and ask where the video podcast is, because it isn't gonna be there until December 12th.
And all of this will be made clear in uh in excellent detail.
It's gonna be harder to do it better than I've done it here, so what we'll probably just do is put the transcript of what I've said here on the homepage at Rushlinbaugh.com.
And uh then you will be able to um take of that.
And again, we offer it L Free Ball, a free of charge additional service for Rush Limbaugh subscribers.
Now, I've been looking at some of the economic news.
It's kind of confusing out there, depending on the story.
America's liberals are gonna be all excited today, or they're gonna be all down in the dumps.
I got two stories about how great the holiday weekend was.
I got two stories about how horrible the holiday weekend was.
I've got two stories here that are gonna just thrill the left.
Well, one of them is really gonna just thrill the left, and it is that Merck and Company, the embattled drug maker, said today it's gonna cut about 7,000 jobs, which is 11% of its workforce.
Merck is also going to close or sell five of its 31 manufacturing plants by the end of 2008 in moves that it says will save up to four billion dollars.
This could not be more a better time for the American left.
They hate the American private sector, they hate corporations, and particularly they hate big pharmaceutical.
And so Big Pharmaceutical taking it on the chin, Merck, laying off 11% of its um of its workforce.
Also a column today by Sebastian Mallaby.
Did it run today?
It uh ran today in the Washington Post on Walmart and how it's actually progressive.
Have you ever stopped to think really why the left hates Walmart.
They're successful, I know, but but look at what they do.
They they offer food and other items at prices that uh that are more affordable than anywhere else.
They do exactly what liberals claim to be able to do with the government.
Get you through life when you can't do it on your own.
Walmart's doing a better job than the government does, which is another reason they're probably hated.
But when you look at the real contradiction is when you look at the customer base of Walmart and find out that the average Walmart customer's salary is $35,000 a year, you those people are benefiting tremendously by Wolf Walmart's existence, and yet the American left wants to put Walmart out of business.
Part of its union uh uh based, but but part of it is Walmart's a conservative bunch of people at the uh at the corporate level.
Uh we've also got news of Saddam today's trial was uh was started and postponed for a week.
It'll uh gin back up on December 5th.
Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General has gone over to join the Saddam defense team.
So uh we got a lot on the plate today.
We got some excellent audio sound bites as well.
We'll be adding your football adding your phone calls.
What about football?
What a little recap on football this weekend?
Me?
On Monday with the stick to the issues, crowd out there getting all upset if I football on Monday?
What do you mean football on Monday?
What do you mean what happened what happened over the weekend?
You talk about the cowboys losing and the giants losing?
It speaks for itself.
Uh well that's I can't explain what's gotten into snerdly.
The only football story today is the uh is the Indianapolis Colts and the uh Pittsburgh Steelers of the Plastic Curtain uh defense.
We'll be back after this.
Stay with us.
Merry Christmas!
So one and all, happy holidays to all of us.
Uh uh, well, to all of us and uh uh from all of us to all of you here at the EIB network.
I want to tell you about a uh dinner I had Saturday, and I had some friends uh went to dinner with some friends on Saturday night in Los Angeles, and the topic invariably came around to the war on terror and Iraq.
And the um circumstances involving all of this hullabaloo over torture.
And it really, we ended up talking a little bit about about uh uh later on I had a well, not not at dinner, but later on in a conversation with some people about McCain's bill on on torture.
And, you know, uh nobody nobody wants to challenge Senator McCain on this because he was a prisoner of war himself for five years.
So he's out there saying that uh that torture doesn't work.
And everybody just seems to be buying into this.
Oh, yeah, of course, no torture doesn't work.
Well, Senator McCain said it doesn't work, and of course, we all know it as a grab and uh club getmo.
And of course there's been this cascading of uh hand wringing, if you will, over the whole concept of of torture and so forth.
And I have an interesting piece today by Andy McCarthy of National Review Online.
He's a former U.S. uh assistant U.S. attorney in the uh office of the Southern District of Manhattan.
Uh he prosecuted a number of cases against Al-Qaeda-type terrorists.
And let me read to you uh well, his headline uh Senator McCain is heroic, he's awe-inspiring, and he's wrong.
Among other things, McCarthy writes, I spent a number of years in the eye of the counterterror storm, prosecuting jihadists, putting my family through the attendant anxieties, and watching the criminal justice system writhe through what the Clinton administration called its war on terror, a curious battle plan in which the enemy kills you and is then presumed innocent.
I came away thinking the whole prosecution paradigm was a national security debacle.
Now, do I get to end all discussion?
Do I have the moral authority to render that judgment simply because I was there and you weren't?
Well, I suppose, except there were other people there too.
And they were doing the same thing I was doing, experiencing the same personal and professional tensions, and they'll tell you that prosecuting terrorists in the full flower of due process was America's Finest hour and one that we should return to post haste.
So the point I he disagrees with this, McCarthy does.
He says, Well, whose moral authority do you believe?
In the end, no ones.
What matters is not the personal character of the speaker.
That's not to say his unique perspective is unworthy of attention.
Of course it isn't.
But it can't of its own force carry the day.
Gravitas notwithstanding, what matters is whether the speaker's arguments are compelling, whether they make logical sense and match up factually with what we know empirically.
The dichotomy of character and substance burdens any effort to address coercive interrogation tactics in the teeth of opposition by Senator McCain, a great patriot and an authentic American hero.
Coercive interrogation in our current climate simply cannot be separated from the imagery and agate prop of torture.
Senator McCain is searing national conscience, is our searing national conscience on that matter, having been subjected to years of sadistic abuse as a prisoner of war in Vietnam.
When he talks about torture, it's not just with uh modofied claptrap lack moral authority.
McCain is the guy that Aristotle had in mind.
Singularly, in this debate, he brims over with bravery, insight, and awe-inspiring personal character.
But he's still wrong, McCarthy writes.
Now the whole piece is at National Review Online.
It's very lengthy, but let me cut here to one particular paragraph in which McCarthy says.
By the way, the the the the bill that McCain offered on torture is is sort of a it's a trick because it it prohibits any torture.
It's the U.S. Congress telling the president you can't do any kind of torture, we were not going to put up with it.
It doesn't work.
Except people, what about the ticking time bomb dilemma?
You've got hold of a terrorist, and the terrorist has direct knowledge of where a nuclear device is going to go off.
You can save a hundred or two hundred thousand or more lives by getting the information from the guy.
What do you torture him to get it?
You've got limited time.
McCarthy writes, well, what's McCain's answer to the ticking bomb dilemma?
Well, it is this.
Let's make such extreme measures illegal, but in the full expectation that the law would be broken with impunity.
As McCain puts it, should an interrogator engage in coercion and thereby save an American city or prevent another 9-11, authorities and the public would surely take this into account when judging his actions and recognize the extremely dire situation which he is which he confronted.
They would opt, in other words, not to prosecute.
Now, this is the same rabbit that Yale law school dean Harold Cole pulled out of his hat when he couldn't answer the ticking bomb problem at Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez's confirmation hearings.
It's sleight of hand, ducking the hard question in a way that is sure to cause more rather than less torture.
And I've been thinking about all this because it's it there's this torture problem in business is gotten out of the point of legislation.
And the one thing that that I think bothers me the most, and I was telling my friends at dinner on Saturday night, because we're having this debate, and because we're ringing our hands over it, and because so many people in this country want to try to hamstring our own efforts to protect ourselves.
I have come to the conclusion that there is a significant number of people in this country who still don't get it.
It's going to take a couple or three more 9-11s.
And I'm not kidding.
I don't think there are enough people in this country that understand who and what we're up against.
Now, the reasons for this are numerous and varied.
One is the mainstream media has done its best to portray us as the barbarians because they echo the Democratic Party's line.
And according to the Democratic Party, which is now invested in defeat in the war on terror and the war on Iraq.
Um, because that means victory for them, we are the barbarians.
They bring McCain's torture bill up.
The whole point of this torture bill is because McCain and others, populists among them, have decided that the political fallout of all the news of Abu Ghrab and Club Gitmo, now these secret uh secret jails in the Eastern Bloc, the CIA is running, just feeds the notion that we're the bad guys, that we're the barbarians, and more and more people.
Uh you heard the call we had uh the week before last from this uh from this liberal who is nice as she could be, but uh her belief is that we have the highest ideals of society and civilization that reside here in this country.
We shouldn't compromise those in fighting an enemy no matter who the enemy is and no matter where the enemy is.
And if we compromise, we're the bad guys, we're the losers.
And so we've got to continue to get hit.
We can't do what's necessary to win.
We can't find out who's going to hit where next if it involves doing something that probably when you hear what Saddam did, one of Saddam's former henchmen has gone public with some of the torture that Saddam engaged in.
When you compare what Sam Saddam did to what we're have done in the news, you have to scratch your head.
But the bottom line is I just I don't think that we're in this country psychologically, mentally prepared to win the war on terror right now.
And I don't think we're anywhere near it.
I don't think enough people take it as seriously as it is.
I also will bet you you can find a whole bunch of intelligence people that'll tell you torture does work.
That everybody does break.
I'll bet you they don't dare speak up, but I'll bet they're there.
Okay, now torture doesn't work, right?
Torture doesn't work.
Well, then why even have the ticking time bomb exception?
Why have it?
Why even talk about the ticking time bomb exception in McCain's bill?
And why, why, why, why make it illegal and then rely on the good graces of a people and a Congress to not punish the person who gets the information from some terrorist in a nick of time to save the detonation of a nuclear device.
If it doesn't work, why even put this exception in the bill?
Why even talk about the ticking time bomb exception if torture doesn't work?
See, the problem with this is that McCain is as it as McCarthy writes, McCain's POW experience and his genuine war hero status make him unassailable on this, even though he's wrong.
You've got people, I'll guarantee you, and we haven't heard this, but folks, reality is reality, and this is what I don't think enough people are facing.
The reality is that we're at war with a worldwide enemy that is intent on as many more 9-11s as possible.
But I think people either don't believe that it's that bad or don't want to believe it, so they put their heads in the sand.
Or they've or they somehow buy into this notion because they've uh attended conflict resolution classes at some point in their education, that it's our fault that we're somehow provoking these people, just like that idiotic wacko professor at that New Jersey college was provoked after he sent an email to a student claiming that it would be best if Iraq soldiers, our soldiers turned their guns on their commanding officers.
You know, it's it's it's a it's a tough thing.
Well, once you once you come to grips and admit that there's a deadly enemy out there that uh swears your extermination, you can do one of two things.
Yeah, we're the strongest country in the world, they'll never succeed, I don't care about that.
And ignore it.
Or you can face it.
If you face it, then you're challenged to do something about it and be supportive of others who are actually going to try to be doing something about it.
And what bugs me about this this whole torture debate is that it's based on a complete lie.
And the lie is that we are somehow involved in torture on some official grand scale, that it's the single most used technique we have, that that's all we do.
The lie is that we do nothing but torture, that we are evil, mean barbarians, and we deserve what's coming to us.
And we are so invested in torture and and on some official grand school, it's ordered from Roseville.
Why it's ordered from Bush, why it's ordered from Cheney.
It's so bad that our Congress is spending all this time worried about the enemy.
It's like McCarthy wrote in his piece at National Review Online, he's prosecuting these terrorists in the Clinton war on terror.
These guys go out and kill Americans, and then they are presumed innocent as we go after them.
Never in the history of war have we faced such constraints.
But the American left with the avid support of the American media is placing those constraints, and the fact that more and more people seem to be willing to have those constraints placed is really troubling.
All this is upside down.
We we spend an all this time worried about the enemy.
Post 911.
So I last week mentioned countless times.
We never hear the American left and American media talk about the barbarian acts of torture that are created and performed by our enemy.
You never hear a bad thing about these people at all.
They're just a bunch of disadvantaged, misunderstood, misled people.
And if we could just sit down and talk to them, right, we could straighten them out.
People like John Kerry and Cindy Sheehan could do this.
And I'm telling you, it's upside down.
The concern ought to be on preventing the destruction of American cities and the mass murder of Americans by the millions, but that's not where the concern is.
The concern is imposing restrictions on our military.
The effort appears to put shackles on our ability to feed to defeat these people.
It's not humane to impose policies on our military and the CIA that hamstring our soldiers and spies from preventing these acts of terror.
It's not humane to allow another 9-11 or worse by outlawing efforts that might protect us.
This whole thing's not about torture.
When you get right down to it, that's just the big rallying cry and rallying point.
What this thing is really all about is national security and homeland security.
And we've allowed this debate to be argued on terms that are inapplicable.
That is liberal arguments.
We've allowed ourselves to go on the defensive about this rather than trying to reframe the debate where it should be.
Instead of talking about torture and allowing the libs to set this picture up that we're evil barbarians, we ought to be asking them every time they start whining about how we're treating terrorists.
What are you doing to protect the country?
Name one thing.
Name one thing that you're doing and willing to do.
Give me your plan for post-troop withdrawal Iraq.
Give me your plan for the war on terror.
What are you doing other than running around tying the hands of the people or trying to protect you and all the rest of us?
What are you doing besides going to the floor of the Senate as Senator Durbin did and comparing our military to Nazi thugs, Soviet gulags, and pole pot types?
What are you doing besides that?
What are you doing besides trying to recast the vote that you cast in 2002 so that you were lied to?
What are you doing to protect the country?
That's not even the debate anymore.
And that's why I was telling these people Saturday night, I don't I don't think we're we've come to grips yet.
9-11's long forgotten.
We don't see the pictures of it anymore.
And I I just think it's gonna kick a couple of three more.
If that, if if that few.
I'm not, I'm just I'm just sharing with you where I am on all this.
This is this has all been replaced.
All of this proper concern's all been replaced by the political prism of how can we make all this hurt George W. Bush?
How can we make all this hurt the Republicans?
But as I say, if torture doesn't work, why make an exception for this ticking time bomb circumstance?
Obviously it does work.
If you can, if you can obviously if you can get via torture at a ticking time bomb scenario in the last few hours before the bombs ready to go off, if you can find a way to get something out of the guy, then it does work, right?
Obviously works.
We know everybody breaks.
Folks, if you talk, talk to World War II people.
Talk to people from the greatest generation, talk to people who've been involved in wars where their hands weren't tied behind their back by a number of people, and they'll tell you everybody breaks.
They will tell you that our military and our spies are trained.
They are told when they go in the field, you're gonna break.
At some point, they're gonna break you.
The key is to hold out as long as you can to give us a chance to cover up your buddies and go out of the area or whatever.
But everybody breaks.
But these people can't come forward and say this.
They'd be thrown in jail.
Because the line is this is horrible, it's illegal, we don't do it, but we're missing the template.
We're missing we're missing the point.
We're we're we're being led to believe that torture takes place simply because we're a bunch of sadists.
And we like it.
We're not we're not actually interrogating people to protect the country.
We're not actually setting up secret prisons around the world to take these bad apples and get the goods from them.
No, we're not.
We we're just a bunch of sadist barbarians.
That's what the Democrats and the American left say.
Go Go go go talk to some people.
On your own.
I'll bet you'll find out that uh you'll find a whole bunch of people.
Everybody breaks.
They'll be able at some point.
You think special ops trainees are not trained in how to deal with torture?
You think special ops people are said you're gonna get if you get caught, they're gonna break you at some point.
Aviators, the same thing.
They're probably trained to resist it as long as possible.
They're taught that every hour that they hold out means that they may save the life of one of their buddies, that the more they can hold out, the extra time gives uh uh headquarters a chance to get people out of harm's way and change procedures so they can limit the damage.
But nobody's gonna go up against McCain on this.
Because of his POW status.
Why do you think there hasn't been another attack since 9-11 on this country?
You think it's just by accident?
You think it's because all the terrorists are well, it might be, I don't know, but I'm also willing to consider that there hasn't been another attack on this country because we have found out about attacks before they happen or were able to thwart them.
Now we're not going to go out and announce these successes because that blows our methodology in doing so.
So the people who succeed in doing all this can't go around brag about it.
They can't issue a press release, and they can't get news coverage about it.
So all we do, we get one side of the story, just like when a prosecutor presents his indictment, you think, well, that's it.
This is defendant is going to jail.
Why scooter Libya is guilty of sin before you've even heard scooters' side of it.
Or any defendant for that matter.
But the same token, these people that are having all kinds of success uh in finding out exactly what's going on and what the plans are that the these jihadists continue to have for our country.
I just think it's a it's a terrible thing.
And this McCain bill is such it's so misses the point because it's based on a complete lie.
This whole why even send this bill up there?
This is about McCain being elected president.
This is McCain trying to go out and appeal as a moderate center of the road populist to a bunch of Americans who have been made to feel uncomfortable by what we may be doing, so McCain is see, I'm not tied to this administration and I'm not tied to the Democrats, and I'm gonna make a statement on torture that is fulfilling the American ideal of fair play and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And yet, in this bill, he actually allows for the possibility that the ticking time bomb example works, and he says, Well, let's go ahead and make it illegal because we know that if it's ever used, we'll be so grateful we'll forgive the person that did it.
Well, wait a minute.
I thought torture doesn't work.
We'll be back in just a second.
Stay with us.
Here's a story from Newsmax from uh from Saturday one of Saddam Hussein's official hangman is speaking to the media for the first time, offering a firsthand account of some of the torture techniques he used on Saddam's orders, recalling his time working at Abu Ghrab for Saddam.
Abu Hussein, his last name has been withheld, recalled that a new batch of political prisoners was brought in without being charged with a crime every week.
Deserters from Iraq's war with Iran faced the firing squad.
Prisoners who had insulted Saddam were hanged because it was more cruel.
Uh sometimes we'd hang them upside down and we'd beat their feet with clubs or we would electrocute them.
Uh one of the worst things was putting ten people in a one square meter room for weeks.
They had a brief break every day and were allowed the toilet every three days.
Ten people in a one square meter room at one square yard.
Think of that.
Ten people.
They're piled on top of each other.
Now this surprised me, because of course I've been led to believe here that torture is being naked in front of a dog or or having to sit in an air-conditioned cell and forced to listen to rock music, or watching uh female interrogators in their bra and underwear uh come in and uh and tempt you.
Uh I've thought that's what uh torture was.
Uh but when you listen to this this apparently it worked over there.
Saddam was constantly uh keeping an eye on his enemies and no, no, folks, don't misunderstand.
I'm not advocating this.
I I'm I'm just seeking a little proportion in all this.
The idea that we are a bunch of barbarians engaged in torture is the wrong question here.
And I'll tell you this the idea that the Senate, 90 senators, believe they need to pass a new law to confer rights on the enemy, which is all this anti-torture bill is.
It's McCain and these uh supporters of his deciding we need to confer rights on the enemy.
And why?
Well, it purportedly prevent our brave men and women in uniform from torturing terrorists.
Because if if we prevent them from torturing them, we won't make other terrorists mad, and there will be fewer attacks on us.
But the more we torture and the more words, hell, half these people being tortured are making it up, if not more.
It's in their handbook.
You get captured, the first thing you do is start claiming torture, particularly anti-Islamic torture.
And they know that you're gonna get an audience with people in the U.S. media who are intent on defeating the current war effort because it's being led by George W. Bush.
I mean, this is it's it's sickening, this this idea that that we we need to have a bill that confers rights on the enemy in order to prevent our soldiers from torturing terrorists.
It's sickening because it accepts the worst portrayal of our armed forces as fact and serves as the basis for legislating.
Okay, yeah, they're a bunch of barbaric.
Oh, yeah, they torture oh, you wouldn't believe what they do.
We need a bill to stop it.
It's just it's sickening to me, folks.
But it's what makes me think that we're not there yet, that we don't really realize what we face, and that we're setting ourselves up for more 9-11s, and if we get them, uh it's gonna take a few or three more before the American people apparently get this straight and understand the severity of that which we face.
Here's Mike in Philadelphia, an Army vet.
Welcome, sir.
Nice to have you on the program.
Hey, first time caller.
Thank you for having me.
You bet, sir.
Hey uh Rush, do you remember Bill Buckley, the CIA station chief who was captured by the PO?
Yes.
And tortured to death.
And he gave up every operation that the CIA had running in Lebanon under torture.
My point being that uh if you're gonna say torture doesn't work or the information's unreliable, that's an ad hominem comment.
It has no basis in in reality.
Well, of course, common sense is just the opposite.
It the idea that this is another thing that's bad about this, this whole notion that torture doesn't work, everybody's starting to believe that because McCain says it.
But even McCain allows for this 11th hour ticking time bomb thing to torture people to get the truth out of them when the when other techniques don't work.
So, yeah, I remember Bill Buckley.
I did not know that he gave up everything he knew under torture.
That's news to me.
Yeah, there's uh there was a part in the book inside the CIA that talks about this.
And uh William Webster, who is a CIA director, said that after they saw the video tape of Bill Buckley's torture, they knew that every single operation they had running in Lebanon had been compromised.
Well, I look I I can't say if Bill Webster said it and he was from the CIA, then probably knows more about what he's talking about than I do.
Just to me, this is common sense.
Everybody has a breaking point.
Now the theory that it doesn't work is based on people will lie to stop the torture.
Well, if you can successfully lie to an interrogator, you got a lousy interrogator.
It just boils down to that.
If an interrogator will end up accepting a lie, the interrogator uh is is the uh is is the problem.
But McCain says that they didn't get anything out of him uh over in the North Vietnamese Hanloy Hilton's, it doesn't work.
And he was tortured, as we all know, for five years.
And some people have said, I can't remember where I read this, some people have said in response, well, their techniques over there were not exactly intended to learn anything.
They were just barbarians.
And they were just trying to harm and punish and inflict pain.
Uh so forth and uh and so on.
Anyway, the whole thing troubles me because the whole debate misses the point.
Uh, thanks for the call, Mike.
A quick timeout will be back and resume.
Yes, Steve Mariucci of the Detroit Lions has been fired, along with uh with two and si two assistants.
He's the head coach brought in from the San Francisco Forturners, and uh uh they thought he might survive the season.
Of course, every responsible football commentator that I watched over the weekend said, Oh no, they're not gonna fire Mariucchi this close to the end of the season.
Oh, they'll let him finish out the season, proving once again that most of these people are full of it and don't know what they're talking about.
Nobody ever does know what they're talking about when they're talking about things that haven't yet happened.
Quick timeout, we'll be back after this.
A uh CNN uh switcher operator has been fired after that computer glitch uh last week.
The CNN operator actually told a caller, hey, this is our free speech.
Uh We did it just to make a point.
Tell them to stop lying.
Bush and Cheney bring our soldiers home.
When CNN heard about that, they fired the guy that did it.
I guess they maintained it was just a computer glitch, though, that they couldn't duplicate it.
Also, Cindy Sheehan pictured by the Associated Press, waiting for throngs to come up and get an autograph copy of her book.
Except there's nobody there except about 30 media people taking pictures.
Not one person.
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