Richard Spencer and Andrew Jensen review Depeche Mode’s fourth studio album, Black Celebration (1986).Sound references Depeche Mod, Black Celebration, “Black Celebration”DM, BC, “Sometimes”DM, BC, “A Question of Time”Gary Glitter, Glitter, “Rock and Roll” (1972)The Chanters, “She Wants to Mambo” (1954)DM, BC, “A Question of Time”DM, BC, “Stripped”DM, Speak & Spell, “Photographic” (1981)DM, BC, “Fly on the Windscreen”DM, BC, “New Dress”Philip Glass, Einstein on the Beach, “Train” (1976)DM, BC, “It Doesn’t Matter 2”DM, Some Great Reward, “It Doesn’t Matter” (1984)DM, BC, “A Question of Lust”DM, BC, “Here Is The House”Madness, “Our House” (1982)DM, BC, “World Full of Nothing”DM, BC, “Dressed in Black”DM, “Christmas Island”DM, “But Not Tonight”DM, “Stripped” (Live), 1986. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit radixjournal.substack.com/subscribe
Yes, I think everybody fishes for a yes with this.
I think the most devout fans want this, or think that this is their best album.
I remember a while ago you said that you had voted...
Oh, I did a Facebook post.
This was back in the day, probably like 2010 or something.
And yeah, I ranked the albums.
I should go look back at that.
My Facebook account was, of course, deleted.
So it's lost to the world, all of those insights.
Wisdom-laden, as they were.
But yes, I do remember choosing this one.
And I think I might have put Broken Frame and Exciter as non-entities or something.
I think I'm going to probably rethink a lot of those opinions, but I'm not sure I want to rethink number one.
I mean, you can make a strong case for Violator.
You can make a strong case for music.
For the masses, you can make a strong case for faith and devotion, despite the fact that that was like Dave almost died while making it.
Maybe that's why it's so great.
This is just Depeche Mode fully actualized, confident in themselves.
They know what they're going for.
Every track is great.
I like some more than others.
And this was actually mentioned by Simon Spence and Just Can't Get Enough.
This might be the first time where the whole album seems...
Like a concept album or like a mini opera or something, if you will, in the sense that all of the songs are together.
You have a couple of situations where one will flow into the other.
So it's a bit like Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart Club Band or concept albums of that nature.
Yeah, just the level of confidence that the band expresses to do this, I think, is remarkable.
Now, reading up on it, I watched this documentary series, which is on YouTube.
I'm not even sure who made it, but it's quite good.
And then I read some more Simon Spence, and that's an enjoyable book.
If not a terribly interpretive book, it's kind of a...
It talks about Basildon.
In a critical way, in a historical way, but when it talks about the band, it's kind of a fan book.
But anyway, one thing that I just didn't appreciate looking back on these albums, because I was, I guess, eight when this came out, or thereabouts, is that the band actually was at a...
There was a question of, should it continue?
And I think that question definitely was there with Broken Frame.
As maybe, you know, imperfect and a little bit clunky as that album is, it was important for them to put that out.
You know, Vince left.
He just wanted to go do his own thing.
He wanted to be in control.
He kind of left his Basildon friends in the dust and started new bands.
He'll start two bands between that time and when Black Celebration was released.
And they just had to do something.
They had to prove that Martin Gore is a legitimate songwriter.
That the band is still going, that they're going to be touring.
So right before this album came out, there was a release of singles, 1981 to 85. And it was titled Catching Up with Depeche Mode in the United States.
That's how I remember it.
I owned that album on CD, probably in the late 80s or early 90s.
I wish I could maybe find it someplace in my parents' house or something.
Who knows?
It's probably in a...
It's probably on eBay or something.
I don't know.
But, you know, they put out that singles collection, which had a few new songs.
Shake the Disease was on there and others.
And I can't believe it looking back.
But at the time, there was a question of, are you going to even go on?
You know, have you said what you can say?
And this was an almost retrospective.
There were a lot of bands in the 80s who were like that.
They had some great hits, five years, maybe they'll have a reunion every 10 years and play their golden oldies for their aging fan base.
But the fact that they kept going and went forward, they went back to Berlin, back to Hansa Studios, they just...
I mean, this is something that clearly bothered Daniel Miller, who I think was a very, you know, highly sympathetic, even to the point of being a bit of a pushover as a producer, you know, just forgiving, accommodating,
enthusiastic about the band.
But he was like, I don't see a single on this.
Who is this for?
It's not even that it was experimental because...
You know, sampling by 1986 using, like, found sounds, noise, etc.
That was happening.
And even the, you know, if anything, I think the idea of an electronic band was almost passe, if anything.
It had been done.
I mean, what was difficult about this album was...
Just the blackness, everything was dark.
And you, I mean, they were talking about fly on the windscreen as the first single, and the major problem was that the first word is death.
And that's...
I mean, that encapsulates what this album is.
And so, again, there needed to be a great deal of confidence.
Maybe there was a sort of existential crisis.
From what I've read about U2, they were having an existential crisis in the late 80s.
They went to Hansa Studios and they produced Octoon Baby, which is, you know, one of the greatest albums of all time, quintessential album for them.
But they didn't know if they were going to go on.
Bono had a child.
Edge got a divorce.
The band wasn't getting along, etc.
And, you know, out of that, that situation will break up a lot of bands.
But if you keep going, you can produce something like this.
So I just think the confidence to produce this just black on black album about...
Death, surviving, etc.
Doing the kind of experimentation on every track, but then linking all of the tracks into one conceptual album.
I mean, you can just sit down and listen to this in 45 minutes or an hour or so.
I just, yeah.
I mean, I think it's the quintessential DeVeshemote album.
I think it's probably their best album, and it's just an amazing achievement.
Getting all I couldn't do today Black celebration Black celebration Tonight
To celebrate the fact That we've seen the back Of another Black Day Black
celebration
That's interesting about how black it is.
I mean, just from the title, obviously, Black Celebration.
It's also very ballad-heavy.
I feel like it's Martin-heavy.
I mean, he does sing four of the 11, or depending on which release, you get 12 songs.
Just with the album title, Black Celebration, you could have a number of meanings invoked, from celebrating blackness to...
Celebrating the end of a tragedy of some kind.
I mean, even...
That we've seen the back of another Black Day.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely the primary meaning of the title.
Yeah, if you think of Black Celebration, just real quick in your mind, you kind of think of maybe a church that's darkly lit with candles and stuff like that.
It's also, I mean, the song, too, the opening track, Black Celebration, is kind of in that same vein as if you want on some great reward and something to do.
You know, it's like that's their kind of more energetic banger of a song.
Yeah, just celebrating the end of a Black Day.
I think you are correct, though, about the structure of it.
And that's kind of one of the things that I'm not so hot about this album is that it does kind of go like each track could kind of meld into one another.
And, you know, there's something also just about the mix of it.
It doesn't like bang like.
I agree with that.
The way I would say it, if you listen to music for the masses, It's sometimes hard to put into words something that's oral, but it's like you're listening almost to a film score,
or it's just more epic and clear.
I agree with you.
That is a problem with this album.
The general sound seems muddy or something.
Not as refined or differentiated.
I don't know.
I don't know how to put it into words, actually, but you're right.
I think this has been remastered to someone.
I just don't, for whatever reason, I don't think it is their best in terms of just that aural quality, U-R-A-L quality.
Right, yeah.
And Gareth Jones, our producer, has said as much.
A lot of the idea was reverb, because reverb is atmosphere or whatever.
You can hear that, especially on songs like Stripped, and definitely on songs like Sometimes.
there's just a lot of delay and maybe it's like too heavy on the delay and uh and reverb sometimes sometimes
question every day
I'm the first to admit If you catch me in a mood like this I can be tiring Even embarrassing It is a little slow,
too. The tempos are kind of maybe too ballad-heavy and a little bit too slow for me.
And maybe that's why I wouldn't say it's their best album.
I can just, you know, say that this is maybe top five for me.
You know, it's up there, certainly.
But the range of emotions is just like...
A different range of sad emotions or negative emotions.
And I guess you could say, well, yeah, that's what you expect in a Depeche Mode album.
But it's just a little bit too death and dejection and self-loathing.
And also, interestingly, maybe even pederasty.
Dare I say, dare I go there.
What? Yeah.
Do you want to talk about that?
Sure, I guess I missed that, but go on.
Okay, if we go to the song, "It's a Question of Time."
I've got to get to you first Before they do It's just a question of time Before they lay their hands on you They'll make you just like the rest I've got to get to you first You
look good.
You're only 15. I'll take you under my wing.
Yeah, and that reminds us of little 15 and so on.
Yeah, I guess I can see that.
I mean, so much of rock in the 70s was like, you know, look at this hot 15-year-old.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think they would have written that lyric now, but...
Yeah, that's...
Yeah, I don't mean to be a Puritan about it either.
Look, he said 15, not 5. Right.
And the song is...
The lyrics are just as a total, as a single, the lyrics and the production, I think that is definitely one of the highlights of the album.
But, you know, I mean, sometimes I don't blame them for wanting you.
I've got to get to you first.
Yeah, it's funny.
To get to her to corrupt her first or something like that.
Yeah, exactly.
I'll take you under my wing.
What's ironic is that Martin was very influenced by Gary Glitter, who, for those who don't know, they actually probably do know because...
Gary Glitter wrote this song called Rock and Roll, which is, it was in like Happy Gilmore.
It's like.이는ana nana nana dana dana nana so hey hey hey
hey
There's not really any lyrics.
It's just kind of chanting, and it's played at...
Stadiums and sports arenas.
But Gary Glitter is like a serial pedophile, as in had to flee the country, flee the UK.
He was big in the 70s, I think, in the UK.
But I'm not trying to say, obviously.
It's just an irony, not an influence.
But yeah, I mean, this song, A Question of Time, definitely helps to make the album.
A little bit more edgy.
I think it's worth pointing that out because Little 15, you get away with it because the song is enveloped in a sort of sadness.
You can drive away.
If you had a car, you could drive away.
I think question of time is not.
It's almost written from the, I guess not pedophile technically, but just seducer, criminal's perspective.
And I'm gonna get you.
Kind of like that song from Blondie, I'm gonna get you, get you, get you.
And it is interesting how when you see it through that lens, a lot of the lyrics resonate differently.
But, you know, I don't know.
Maybe it's kind of like...
It's unfortunate that you can't write a super dark and edgy song anymore.
You know?
I mean, just saying.
Definitely. Yeah.
You know, not endorsing, obviously, criminal activity, but you know what I mean.
Of course.
Of course.
And, you know, I mean, the Beatles did have, well, she was just 17. You know, that wasn't edgy at the time.
It was just like, oh, okay, she's young and she's spry, whatever.
Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin did have an extended relationship with a 14-year-old girl while he was, I don't know, maybe almost 10 years her senior.
When you talk about rock and roll and this kind of stuff, it was definitely there.
It's still a great song.
I still think as far as the production goes, there's a lot of interesting samples on it.
I think that's another thing about the sound of this album.
There's more record samples.
There still is live sampling of drums and maybe a stomp on the ground or something like that.
Or someone's voice.
But they took this really obscure 1950s record by this band called The Chanters She Wants to Mambo.
Right before the chorus to the song.
There's, like, this woman chanting, or not chanting, rather, like, a high-pitched squeak, and they just, like, pitched it up even higher, and that's what's making that, like, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop kind of sound in the beginning and then all throughout the record.
It's hard to even mimic.
Ooh, que bonita.
Oh, try this.
Que bonita.
mumbo. She wants to mumbo.
I want to mumbo.
She wants to mumbo.
I want to mumbo.
She wants to mumbo.
She wants to mambo.
I want...
She wants to mambo I've got to get to
the best For the whole day
But yeah, just really weird choice to sample this 1950s doo-wop record.
You're taking a sound and then transforming it beyond all recognition and then finding something new in it.
I could even see this.
I mentioned this in our last episode, but the They put on a performance in which they were creating these sounds with drills and so on.
They've done some more commercial stuff.
They've done some songs that you'd recognize as a song and so on.
But they were going full bore.
I mean, literally full bore in this case, just noise drilling into cement, etc.
And you can see that in the music video for Stripped.
Which, also of interest, it's filmed in Berlin.
I mean, there's images of the Berlin Wall.
I mean, it's really fascinating.
And kind of like projecting onto the Berlin Wall from the West Berlin perspective.
But just that slamming sledgehammers into a car, it's almost like they're reenacting Neubauten's performance, but doing it within the context of a song that, you know, is...
Is kind of an anthem song and is poppy, and it is commercial to some degree, but they're just taking that whole ethic and bringing it into commercial music.
me Into the trees We'll lay on the grass And let the eyes pass Take my
hand Come back to the land Let's get away
Just for one day Let me see you stripped down to the bone Let me see you stripped
down to the bone Let me see you stripped down to the bone
Do you mind if I read a little bit from an interview with their producer, Gareth Jones, when he was talking about sampling?
He says, when we sampled, we made sure we didn't use anyone else's music, and that was adhered to even in this track, he's talking about Black Celebration, where we had the idea of sampling Sir Winston Churchill.
We wanted to use his A Brief Period of Rejoicing quote on the title track as we love that idea of a brief moment of rejoicing.
We didn't use his voice, though.
Instead, Daniel said the words, we processed his performance and we used that instead.
That's how determined we were to not use anyone else's work.
It's definitely an album that's really seeking originality.
Maybe even trying to be too original, which...
I mean, Dave Gahn has also said in interviews that I was reading that he's like, I don't like anything I hear on the charts.
And this was 1986.
I don't like anything I hear on the charts.
And we're determined to really just kind of fuck everything up and really shake up music in general with this album.
And I think that it certainly is.
You know, I could say critically, maybe it's a step back because this was supposed to be like the album that set them commercially to the next level.
You had on Some Great Reward, you had People Are People and Master and Servant, which were relatively good songs, even in America, very relatively popular songs.
And then there's nothing on this.
Um, album that charts and on the America, none of the singles that chart in America and it goes, the album as a whole goes to, uh, uh, number 90 on the U S like billboard year end charts.
So it's, it was a disappointment.
I think Daniel Miller was kind of vindicated when he, when he told Martin, I don't hear any singles, but he still allowed them to make the record, you know, which to his credit.
Yeah. But again, these songs inflect the 101 live album, which I definitely think we should talk about at some point soon.
And these songs are still performed.
I mean, I have heard A Question of Time performed live.
Black Celebration was performed on their latest tour.
Stripped was also performed.
I've heard Stripped performed, I think...
Gosh, three or four times live just in the past, let's say, 15 years.
Even here in this house gets performed like on occasion.
A question of lust.
I mean, it's...
Yeah, I mean, it's just like every fly in a windscreen as well.
I've heard that performed live.
I mean, maybe like World Full of Nothing or Dressed in Black or New Dress or kind of the...
You know, I mean, they're not bad or anything, but they're kind of like the secondary mood and sometimes, you know, the kind of moody songs that add to the album.
But other than that, you have like six classic songs from this album that I don't think you can, you know, they really are kind of indispensable as well.
You know, we were talking about Delta Machine.
I remember...
Editing that podcast recently before I released it.
And it was kind of like, I like a lot of these songs, but in a way, if they all went away, nothing would really change.
But you can't say that about this album.
And the other thing that I would say is that I was thinking through this today.
I mean, so if we go back to Speak and Spell, and then if we also look at a band like...
Kroftwerk, which obviously influenced Depeche Mode, even at that point.
They're doing this music that I've described as objective in the sense that they're describing an object.
Light switch, man switch.
Photographic. What is it?
Your name?
The tape is your voice.
It's this weird fetish of technology with a certain layer of irony on top of it.
Oh white house, oh white rule, the program of today.
Lights on, switch on, your eyes are far away.
The map represents you and the tape is your voice.
Follow all along you till you recognize the choice.
I take pictures.
Folks, breath
Where they're moving with this album, and where they'll certainly go with music for the masses, and I think it's quintessential Depeche Mode, they'll start to sing about a theme.
And all of the lyrics are understandable.
They're not like stream of consciousness or anything like that.
But they're singing in a way about something.
They're singing about something that's sacred.
Or they're singing about a black celebration.
And yet you don't know what that black celebration is outside of some very vague lyrics.
Let's have a black celebration tonight to celebrate the fact that we've seen the back of another black day.
I look to you, how we carry on, when all hope is gone, can't you see?
Your optimistic eyes seem like paradise to someone like me.
It's sacred.
It's this singing, let me see you strip down through the bone.
I want to see you speak without your television, basically.
It's this, you're singing about an experience, but then that experience is actually...
Either ambiguous or even vacuous.
There's no there there in a way.
And I don't say that as a criticism.
I think this is something about Depeche Mode where it can speak to you because it's so ambiguous and even vacuous and where it can kind of evoke a darker, bigger theme without ever putting that...
Yeah, I think I do.
Yeah. You kind of know,
but you don't know fully what it's about.
And I think with this album, this Black Celebration sort of paves the way for the rest for especially albums like Violator and Songs of Faith and Devotion.
I'd even put Ultra into that category as well.
The only reason maybe I wouldn't include Music for the Mass is I feel like Music for the Mass is another detour lyrically.
There still are dark themes like Little 15, but...
I just think this album relates more with Violator, Songs of Faith and Devotion, and Ultra.
But yeah, so, I mean, with the song, like, Black Celebration, it is kind of, I get this overall vibe from this song, but then throughout the rest of the album of, like, basically, let's live for today.
You know, our life sucks in this working-class industrial town.
But let's just, you know, party.
I think they've gone beyond the industrial talent thing.
That was something that they kept repeating in, even with songs written by Alan Wilder with some great reward where, yeah, it's just like, you know, if you want to, let's go, or, you know, you've got your black dress on kind of thing.
Your little dress on, which one was it?
Now I've got your...
I think they're moving kind of away from that, and it's a more existential dread.
And I think they've dropped a lot of the working-class ethos, you could say.
Like, death is everywhere.
There are flies on the windscreen for a start, reminding us we could be torn apart tonight.
Over Sunwind, over Sunwind.
Over Sunwind, over Sunwind.
Death is everywhere.
There are flies on the windscreen for a start, reminding us we could be torn apart
Death is everywhere.
Come here, kiss me now.
I think it's more existential.
And even a song that...
I think it's cool and interesting, but like New Dress, it's about media perception and almost like postmodern nihilism.
You could say, let me, the lyrics to this are actually quite funny.
So it's, you know, you're evoking pop culture, you're evoking the myth of Diana, probably at the height of her powers at this point, in terms of being on the tabloids and television,
etc. And the fact that she never wore the same dress twice.
You know, jet airliner shot from the sky.
It is, you know, you're playing with that kind of postmodern irony.
be right back.
I think they go back to some problems I find with Construction Time again, where there's like a little bit of sentimental, I don't know what, Marxism, I guess.
You can't change the world, but you can change the facts.
And when you change the facts, you can change points of view.
If you change points of view, you can change a vote.
And when you change a vote, you can change the world.
I mean, it's not wrong, of course.
Probably, I would have, if I were...
Marta and I would have just stuck with the superficial nihilism of the song.
And even that song kind of gets rocking out at some point.
Like, Princess Di is wearing a new dress.
But then it's kind of cold and detached.
And definitely not a ballad.
I don't even know how to describe it.
just this like almost dance mix
or something.
So I think they're going in a lot of new, interesting directions.
It doesn't matter, I think, is also fascinating.
It doesn't matter too, I should say, because it doesn't matter on some great reward album.
Nothing matters for Martin Gore.
You have this music that begins that...
Or I'm not even doing it right.
Oh, what is it again?
Like the octave jump, like...
Yeah. Really reminds me of...
Yeah. Really, really reminds me of Philip Glass.
And minimalism, so-called.
And, you know, like Einstein and the Beach or something like that.
Just this, like, repetitive synth, very simplistic music.
almost like Vince Clark level clear simplicity.
clear simplicity.
That also is a new direction.
You hear a lot of that monotonous driving sound in Depeche Mode.
I think that's when Essential...
I don't know if anyone else did it in the way that they did it.
But this is, I would imagine, and I haven't heard many people mention this, but I would imagine this was...
You know, they're being influenced by Neubauten, but they're also taking in some Philip Glass.
They're taking in that minimalism, that notion of, you know, repeating a major third or an octave a hundred times over and over and kind of weirdly making it rhythmic and listenable, but almost a lack of melody.
I think that is also fascinating and definitely...
It shows a new direction for them.
direction I don't think they'll ever really go back to.
As I lay here with you, the shame lies with us.
We talk of love and trust that doesn't matter.
Though we may be the last in the world, we feel like pioneers, telling hopes and
fears to one another.
I think with It Doesn't Matter 2, that chord progression is really interesting because it just makes me...
Question, like, how do any of these chords fit together?
It goes from, like, E minor to D sharp major to A minor.
That D sharp or E flat, whatever you want to call it, D sharp major to A minor and then back to E minor.
But that change is, like, but he makes it work.
You would not find that in, you know, 99, well...
90 plus percent of pop music.
You know, that sort of changed, but somehow he makes it work.
I think the content of It Doesn't Matter to the lyrical content is a little bit different because I feel as though on It Doesn't Matter, one, on Some Great Reward, he's almost like from the perspective of a Travis Bickle-like stalker type.
I am happy that I have you, even though you're far away.
And then, you know, you're thinking of somebody, but it's definitely not me, that kind of thing.
And then they've got, like, these...
It sounds, like, really quirky, but then they throw in these, like, dissonant, like, synth noises that almost come across as, like, the re-re-re-re sound in, like, Psycho, you know?
So that's the way that I interpreted It Doesn't Matter, one, on Some Great Reward.
It's like this weird stalkery kind of guy who really believes that this girl is in love with him, but probably doesn't know his name.
It doesn't matter if this all shatters, nothing lasts forever, but I'm praying
that we're staying together.
Oh, my God.
Together. I am all mine.
Your friendship, even when you're far away.
And I'm happy in the knowledge we may name.
It doesn't matter, too.
It's like, I just literally don't care about you.
You're good for lust, and that's about it.
In a way, though, it's more honest.
It's like, lust fulfills that natural drive that we all have.
And if he would have made a love song, it would have been dishonest.
Oh, you're the only one, and yada, yada, that we've heard a million times before.
But this is like...
The anti-love song.
Oh, yeah.
Speaking of both chords and anti-love songs, it's worth looking at A Question of Lust, which has always been one of my favorites.
It was sung by Martin Gore, and then also it was a single, which is also new.
I think I mentioned on one or two podcasts ago that Depeche Mode...
It was basically Dave Gahan's voice to a large extent.
That was the characteristic that everyone knew, particularly as his voice was getting lower and darker as the years went by.
But this was interesting in that it was performed by Martin Gore.
And actually, I don't think it could have been performed by Dave unless he used falsetto or something.
It actually goes up to a high G sharp.
On the crumble to dust, that kind of thing.
But it's in E major, but it starts out with a fifth, so you don't really know whether it's major or minor, and it has some minor evocations, but it's the fragile.
So you're starting on a dissonant note, and then you have a fairly standard...
Romantic love song.
Then, when you...
And it's in E major.
Then when you move to the chorus of it's a question of trust.
So you're moving to A major.
And then B, it's a question of not letting what we've built up crumble to dust.
Way up high.
And then it's, it is all of these things and more.
It's almost like you're going to A minor.
So the chord formations there, when you go built up, crumble to dust, you're in A major.
Then you go to a G major, which would only occur in the A minor key.
So you're flattening a lot of those sharps.
All of these things.
Then your C major, which again would only occur in A minor.
Things and more.
Now you're in A minor.
So you've gone to this A minor key.
That keep us together.
Then you're back in E minor.
And then independence.
back in E major.
*music*
I'm fragile, like a baby in your arms.
Be gentle with me, I'd never willingly do you harm.
Apologies, to all you seem to get from me.
Apologies, to all you seem to get from me.
Just like a child, you make me smile when you care for me.
And you know it's a question of trust, it's a question of trust, it's a question of love.
And when we've built up from all the dust, it is all these things and more.
It feels good.
It's just, yeah, I mean, it's, I find it, I find all of that very interesting and ambitious.
I mean, it's like, I think that's the most lyrical, reaching, kind of like, I don't know, quasi-show tune, if you will, writing from Martin Gore.
Interesting, the chords he chooses.
It's not, you know, to just start in E and then move to A major for your chorus and then A minor and then just return back.
It's an interesting departure.
I, you know, again, he's like 23 years old at this point or 25 maybe at the most.
Who knows?
But it's actually very mature writing.
And musically, that is.
There's a sense of despair within the love song.
We're just going to allow everything we built up to crumble to dust while he's singing about staying together.
It's a great song.
I've heard it live.
I love it when they perform it live.
I think it's a classic.
One of their best, actually.
One of their more interesting, as well, of that...
Just really kind of infective secondary melody that's going on.
It feels like it could just keep going on forever.
It actually does have a fade-out.
Yeah, just, I think, an amazing song.
It's a question of lust.
It's a question of trust.
It's a question of love.
And what we build upon, but the dust is under these things I know.
You keep us together.
lust. It's a question of trust.
Probably my favorite on the album.
It's got that good...
It sounds like a Beatles song in a lot of ways, and Martin has said that before as far as at least the major part of it.
It does sound like a classic love song if you just played it on acoustic guitar.
I think another interesting part of the sound in A Question of Lust...
It has this kind of...
The drums in that song kind of had this standard 80s ballad that you could hear in a song like Drive by the Cars.
This like...
Like with that snare on the four.
Like nothing.
And then this kind of like shuffling kick drum pattern.
And then this snare on the four.
And also the E and D sharp, the throughout the verse, kind of gives it that tension of that, you know, that half step between E and D sharp.
But it's like a darker version of somebody.
Like in the first verse, he's talking about how he's fragile and vulnerable.
In this girl's arms.
And then the second verse, he's stressing independence.
It gives you that perspective of somebody who doesn't know what they want in a relationship.
But yeah, that is definitely single material, for sure.
Yeah. Yeah.
And sometimes almost seems like a somebody remake.
Yeah, I do.
There's something interesting about that, though.
I like it, yeah.
There's something interesting about the fact that it sounds incomplete.
And you can hear this kind of shuffling in the background.
It is almost like just a half-fleshed-out idea.
Like it's missing maybe a coda or maybe a better chorus or something.
But yeah, I think...
It leaves you wanting more.
Yeah, Here in This House and World Full of Nothing are similar.
And I think, you know, it's funny because reading about this, I mean, they spent three months in Hans' studios or something like this.
And they said, Daniel Miller said that they wanted to live the album, so they were just showing up to work every day, you know, spending the whole day in the studio, each of them working on something different.
Who knows what Fletch was up to?
You know, maybe became a master at chess or learned a new foreign language or something.
But they have a couple of the songs that are almost a little bit elliptical.
Like, they feel unfinished.
Again, sometimes it's like that world full of nothing and here in this house.
But they're almost like little kind of excursions within the whole...
Broader album.
And I like it.
I almost don't want them to go on.
Now, something like I Want Somebody to Love for the Rest of My Life, it's the most just standard, in terms of writing, the most standard by-the-book love song, to the point of cringe, actually.
But then you can...
See that they've added in, like, you can hear children in the background, or, like, a merry-go-round, or there's something, you know, kind of like with Blasphemous Rumors, where you have all these, like, other sounds, it's kind of almost cinematic, and heartbeats are...
Like, it's...
They're trying to create, like, a movie or visual quality to the music, and they don't do that a lot with those...
You know, three songs that I mentioned.
Although, I don't know, I guess there's the kind of like clock ticking with Here in This House, but...
Here is the house where it all happens.
Those tender moments under this roof.
Body and soul come together.
As we come closer together And as it happens, it happens here in this house But
I'm glad, in a way.
I kind of like those songs as they are.
They're just kind of like two and a half minutes, that's enough.
It's a B-side, it's an excursion, etc.
Yeah, I think here in Here's the House, it does kind of remind me of, just because of the lyrics, Our House by Madness.
It's certainly not like anthemic like that song.
Our house.
In the middle of our streets.
Our house.
In the middle of a A house he has
But you can just picture in your head, like...
You know, a couple, like, staying in and, like, by the fire.
It's a tender song, and actually a lot of this album, especially the Martin songs, are, like, very tender.
This isn't a Martin song, you know?
But, I mean, they have, like, a great use of harmony between him and Dave, which I wish they would have explored a little bit earlier.
I feel like later.
Only did they really explore their harmony with his baritone and Martin's tenor.
But the song, that's got a sort of interesting chord structure.
As far as going from C minor to E flat to A flat, all those are in C minor.
But then going to G major, that in itself is interesting, and that's classic Martin Gore.
Not that unusual, I would say.
Yeah, it's not that unusual.
You're going from B-flat to B-natural, the leading tone to C. Yeah, I like this one.
Yeah, it's enough to catch your ear.
What I think I found really interesting with World Full of Nothing is that...
It just describes a couple in a working-class, super-mundane, de-industrialized town.
I can personally find this relatable just based on where I'm from.
There's something about the lyrics in the chorus.
Though it's not love, it means something.
Very simple.
Maybe too simple, but it gets to the point.
And that in itself, that progression of the verse is kind of like a martingorization or a minorization of the standard chord progression that you've talked about before, which is like going from the one...
To the minor 6, to the 4, to the 5. There's so many songs that do that, like Every Breath You Take by The Police does that.
Stand By Me by Benny King.
When the night has come, won't you stand by me?
You know, that kind of progression, except what Martin does is make all of the chords minor.
So it's A minor to F sharp minor, which is a huge, you know, that's a jump of a third.
And then to D minor, another third way.
And then to E minor, back to A minor.
It's just, again, another anti-love song.
Close, naked, skin on skin.
Tears are falling, tears of joy.
Her first boy, his first girl.
Makes a change in a world full of nothing.
Though it's not love, it means something.
guitar solo
It also just sticks with this...
Theme of what Gore is going for the entire time, which is a world full of nothing.
Finding love within that.
And I think that's the broader theme of I think actually every song now that I'm looking at it.
Yeah, like the silver lining.
Yeah, so it's kind of like it's a black celebration.
It's enveloping any sort of love within death.
And nihilism or meaninglessness or, you know, consumerism.
You know, what is it?
Sex jibe, husband murders his wife or whatever.
You know, plane goes down.
You know, all this kind of like headlines of disasters or murders or something.
But Princess Di is wearing a new dress.
I mean, it's just a recurring theme.
That's, again, why I like this.
I mean, it's one album.
And some musical...
You know, interesting musical developments, like It Doesn't Matter 2 or something, but it's just really one theme, one song, actually.
to slip away and believe it all.
No, it's not love.
Like I said, my only criticism really is the sounding, maybe making something that punches a little bit more and maybe a little bit tougher, but I can't be upset about it.
This is a different expression, you know, and it's a path that they're forging, I think.
She's dressed in black again, and I'm falling down again.
Down to the floor again I'm begging for more again But oh, what can you do when she's dressed in black?
*music*
My mind wanders endlessly On paths where she's leading me I have a take on Dressed in Black,
but it's probably wrong.
What do you think of the song Dressed in Black of just the lyrics and all?
Well, when you said that, my mind started turning and I was wondering if you were...
Going someplace interesting.
She's dressed in black again, and I'm falling down again, down to the floor again.
I'm begging for more again, but oh, what can you do when she's dressed in black?
As a picture of herself, she's a picture of the world, a reflection of you, a reflection of me, and it's all there to see if you only give in to the fire within.
I don't know what it's about.
I'm going to sound like a trad cat for this, but forgive me.
I kind of get the impression that it's about sex and death.
He's only giving in to the fire within.
She's dressed in black.
Gives mourner, funeral, maybe even priest vibes.
And it might even, if it's about sex and death, then it might even be about AIDS because this is 1986.
I don't know.
That's just...
I couldn't really...
As far as what to make out of it, what to take out of it, I can't really think of anything else other than like Dream Reaper kind of vibes.
Yeah. And she stands there over me and waits to encompass me.
I lay here helplessly.
But oh, what can you do when she's dressed in black?
Yeah, it's menacing, in fact.
And this goes back to a lot of stuff, even like Tora Tora Tora, you know, Martin's song from Speak and Spell, this kind of Halloween vibe or something that he goes for.
He will often go there.
There's something on Delta Machine of standing on the grave and your arms are coming out of the ground, this zombie vocation.
It's interesting.
So let's talk a little bit about the
Everyone involved, so this was Brian Griffin, and this was really his downfall, in fact.
So, they would move to Corbin for all visuals after that, and from what I can tell, ever since.
It's an interesting, you know, whereas some great reward evoked the factory and then, you know, this young, loving couple enveloped within that world.
This is almost evoking New York City or maybe Berlin, Wall Street vibes.
It's actually a model.
And it just...
Doesn't work.
There's like reflections of flowers below.
There's black flags coming down the building.
And it just looks like a mess, actually.
And they never hired the poor man again.
I mean, it's unfortunate.
But it is interesting what they're going for.
So this is the first time you see this rose, which will come back in Violator.
And there's...
Also, as I was saying, that kind of 80s vibe of the skyscraper with windows at night.
Then there's this black flag hanging down.
We actually mentioned this, I think, maybe in our spirit review of this desire to evoke the Nazis, in fact, aesthetically.
It was going to be like Berlin in 1936.
But it was going to be black flags hanging down and there was just going to be this, you know, cool but cold, fash aesthetic that they're going for.
I think they are going for it.
I just think they don't achieve it at all.
I don't want to sound like a neo-Nazi, but we kind of admired the way those big banners used to hang on kind of German...
Nazi headquarters you see in, like, the 30s and during the war, they'd hang these big banners with a swastika on, and they'd come down the whole side of the building.
And Daniel and I had talked about doing something like that with these logos.
And so I talked to Daniel about doing it with a real building, and then the next thing I know, Brian made this model.
It was probably about this big on a tabletop.
And it was supposed to represent this, like, 30-story Italian futurist building.
And it had these, like, bits of ribbon hanging down the side.
And I think we might have had a little fan there to try and blow on, but because of the scale, it just looked ridiculous.
I don't know what he was smoking that day, but I just thought it looked terrible.
And it was kind of a bit of a disaster, because I think that was a much-anticipated record, and the schedules were deadly tight.
I actually went to Hansel, I think, that time to show them the photographs and they were pretty disappointed.
But it's still interesting that they're going for it.
But do you have any thoughts on that?
Because there's another aspect of the album that...
two other aspects that are worth mentioning.
Yeah, I think with the cover, it definitely is Brian Griffin's downfall.
And I actually looked into some interviews when he...
We talk about this cover, and according to him, there was basically a tension between Brian Griffin, the photographer, and Martin Adkins, the creative director, or art director, who also worked on album covers for Echo and the Bunnymen.
They just didn't see eye to eye.
According to Brian Griffin, basically there were too many cooks in the kitchen kind of thing.
By this time in 1986, Depeche Mode was a bigger name, so they had that many more people trying to direct them in all sorts of ways.
Brian Griffin, this is just according to him, felt as though...
He was like forced to make something.
Meanwhile, he's got, you know, he's juggling like 10 or 15 other projects, whatever.
And he said at this point on Black Celebration, the communication with the band was like very little.
Whereas on Speak and Spell and A Broken Frame, say what you want about the Speak and Spell album cover.
I actually do think that there is something very interesting about that.
It's certainly shocking.
Yeah, it's shocking.
It's cheap.
But then it kind of makes you quite...
Is this like a statement about environmentalism?
Is it...
Sure. You know, is it a statement about how beauty is enveloped in plastic in the commercial world?
I mean, it's, you know, maybe pretentious, you could even say.
But definitely interesting.
And then, obviously, Broken Frame is just, you know, one of the best photographs of all time.
Yeah. I mean, I say that not just even as a...
Depeche Mode fan.
It's an incredible photograph.
But there are two other aspects to this.
So there's this subtitle that says Life in the So-Called Space Age.
So first off, they're subtitling the album.
So-called seems rather sarcastic.
You know, it kind of reminds me, the sentiment kind of reminds me of when people will watch a film like 2001 or something and they'll, you know, in our day and age or even 20 years ago and they're like,
wow, we were promised interstellar space travel and all of this heady ambition and instead...
We're renting this film at Blockbuster.
I mean, there's a letdown.
I think maybe they're going for that.
But I don't know.
I don't see any other evocation of space throughout the whole album.
It sounds almost, I don't know, maybe a bit of a clunker.
Or are they saying something else?
Space age?
I don't know.
Yeah, that does not...
I think it's just an overall...
Confusion there.
That doesn't make sense.
But the thing is, and you're right, it is from, yeah, Violator on Anton is the basically creative director, photographer, and he's really been in charge of everything since.
But Brian Griffin did actually shoot the music video for It's Only When I Lose Myself, which would have been the single to that.
Singles album that they had in 1998.
But as far as I understand, that is the end of his involvement with the band.
But Anton did also do the video for A Question of Time, which is, just to get back to what we said real quick about A Question of Time, he's got these babies in the video.
That is a bit strange.
You know, just, I guess, the focus on youth or whatever.
I'll try not to, you know, be like a schizophrenic and try and read anything into that, anything more into that.
But, yeah, anyway, I just don't think that the cover for Black Celebration, yeah, it's easily their worst.
Yeah, and the other aspect is that they have these logos That almost seem a bit like clip art, but they're interesting.
So if you go down the album, there are three trumpets.
And then there's a V for victory.
Almost N and O or C. And then there are three flags.
Almost remind me of Antifas.
There's a birthday cake.
There's a torch.
Kind of reminds me of Fran National's logo.
There's an explosion with a lightning bolt pointy explosion.
There's planes flying off in three directions.
There's a filing cabinet.
And then you also get to the megaphone within a triangle.
So you're kind of looking forward to where they're going with Music for the Masses.
There's a firecracker, an explosion.
You could perhaps associate...
These were each of the songs.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. There are actually 12 logos, so I don't know.
I think they're, again, I would just get back to what I've been saying for a little while, is that they're trying to capture a fascist aesthetic, and they're...
Trying to make the music meet that, and they're trying to evoke that without the swastika, say, or the fashies, but they're not, maybe not always, at least here, not quite successfully implementing it.
They have a singles collection or some live tracks and b-sides where they have those three flags, and then definitely the megaphone will start to come into play.
With music for the masses.
So again, and then there's nuclear war, which, you know, is evoked in other tracks.
So I think they're trying to get at something.
Not always successfully.
I mean, the birthday cake is just kind of funny.
It's just black celebration.
It's interesting.
Yeah, I...
I'm not a huge fan of the logos, and there are versions of the album cover without the logos.
As far as I understand, from this Brian Griffin interview that I was watching, Martin Adkins did all the logos.
So Brian Griffin was in charge of the model and bringing it in and trying to, like that banner, I guess he tried to have a fan blow on it to make it look...
You know, realistic or whatever, but it didn't end up working.
I just think the album artwork for this is...
Yeah, I probably would have fired both of them, to be honest, if I was the band.
But Martin Adkins, to his credit, he does redeem himself.
Unforced error.
Yeah, he does redeem himself, though, Martin Adkins, with the music for The Masses.
I think that...
Is a really good logo as far as the whatever it says bong on it and it's got the big megaphones and like the megaphones you know to nowhere basically but yeah yeah not good.
Yeah so there are also some interesting things they were because they were spending so much time there you know I mentioned that singles collection and You know, like Gasping for Air,
I think is what it's called, or Gasping for Breath is an interesting remix.
And then there's also the B-side, which is actually one of their more famous B-sides, which is But Not Tonight, which I know when they release this digitally, they...
included that actually in the album and it's in this, um, interesting singles collection.
Um,
Black Day, again, it's almost like a new song.
It's Black Celebration, Christmas Island.
They're doing some really interesting things.
themselves. They have a long time to spend in the studio.
They can create their own remixes.
I mean, but not tonight.
I mean, for what it's worth, we're actually recording this on Depeche Mode Day as declared by the City Council of Los Angeles.
So there you go.
Hopefully we'll be getting off work on this day and post office will be closed.
We've got to do something about these Democrat-run cities.
Yeah, I actually would not be surprised at all if a conservative criticizes them for doing this, the Democrats.
But I believe her name, I think her, let me just go check.
I don't want to misidentify her.
I think it's Monica Rodriguez.
Yes, Monica Rodriguez, LA City Councilwoman, 7th District.
She looks pretty Gen X to me.
I couldn't find her year of birth, but she looks like she's 40 or maybe 50. And it's kind of interesting because she...
Her name is Hispanic.
I'm not going to guess her ethnicity because you always get in trouble there.
First off, it's interesting that she did this.
I do think that Depeche Mode just speaks to the Gen Xers and they are our Rolling Stones and they spoke to us when we were teenage angsty, etc.
They have been just a very hard-working, long-term project as well, which is remarkable in itself.
The city council described Depeche Mode as teaching us about love and unity, and I was just kind of like, of all the bands that don't teach us about those things, it's like of all the bands to associate with love and unity,
it's really funny to pick Depeche Mode.
It's maybe like saying that Arsenic taught us science or something.
I don't know.
Cancer taught us about Christianity.
It's just an odd choice, but obviously she's just a fan and she's politicking.
I am Councilwoman Monica Rodriguez and I am so proud to be here on what we have officially declared in the city of Los Angeles as Depechevo Day.
I want to thank you all for coming out.
To honor a very treasured band that has meant so much to Los Angeles, meeting us where we are, with their lyrics and their musical stylings that helped to keep us whole when sometimes the world was falling apart.
And I couldn't be more proud to be here, in solidarity with all of you, to recognize a global sensation One thing I would notice,
I mentioned this on Twitter, is that...
Okay, for instance, I recently just went to Vegas for the weekend and I saw U2 live in the Sphere.
Great concert.
I was just in general admission, and a lot of people there, everyone was standing, actually, in general admission, below the stage.
And if you purchased other tickets, you were actually seated.
Now, believe it or not, Martin Gore was actually in the audience while I was there, and Bono sang Personal Jesus at one point, so it was special that I was there.
Anyway, I noticed this.
With maybe a couple of exceptions, it was like a high school reunion from 1986 or 1996.
It was just all whites.
Just a big group of 500 to 1,000 white people who are middle-aged, younger middle-aged.
They're still young enough to go to a concert.
Now, when I went to a Depeche Mode concert...
I always do notice this.
I've noticed this about the last three or four times.
I've seen them in Madison Square Garden.
I've seen them in Washington, D.C. I've seen them in Las Vegas.
I've seen them in Chicago.
Those are my last four concerts, I believe.
There's a big Hispanic fan base.
And I don't you know, they might even be like underrepresented as a percentage of the population or something.
But but all I'm saying is that you rarely see black Depeche Mode fans.
You obviously see a lot of white fans and you see older people and you see some younger people there.
For whatever reason, there there's a like Hispanic American Depeche Mode fandom of some significance.
I totally agree with you.
Other than, like, I know in, like, Latin America they have, like, this really big thing for the Virgin Mary.
And I'm thinking, like, maybe there's some kind of, like, it's not like Martin Gore talks about the Virgin Mary necessarily, but, like, she's a woman and she's sacred.
And, you know, being that she's a woman, like, there's maybe, like, this intersection or...
Something between, like, sex and religiousness or sacrality.
I'm not really sure what it is.
But, yeah, I mean, there was this documentary, actually, about Depeche Mode fans that came out, I don't know, maybe, like, 15 years ago.
And this kid is from Los Angeles.
He's a Mexican kid, and he is just, like, really obsessed.
Like, he scares me.
That's how fanatical.
I have my collage here.
I have a rose, you know, and I put incense right here.
You know, devotion.
He puts like a little candle in front of the little collage that he has every day.
He lights a little, it's a votive candle because he says that the God is the greatest and that, you know, he's God.
This is my obsession and this is what I live for and they mean a lot to me.
I think this is all fine and good.
I'm just simply making an observation.
But, you know, why is it?
I think it must be the Christian themes, the sex that's enveloped in Christian themes that goes throughout their albums.
That is my guess, that it is perceived by people who have kind of a residual Catholicism or Catholic background.
It just resonates with them.
I'll just say that.
But I don't even know if they would explain it in those ways.
If you ask them, why do you like this?
They might very well come up with different explanations.
This is just my interpretation.
Especially, actually, when I was at the show.
Wow, this is crazy.
I didn't even think about it.
There was this Hispanic guy next to me at the show in Chicago.
And he was like, man, I hope they play higher love.
And I was like, dude, they're not going to play Higher Love.
It's not 1993 or 4. They're not playing that song.
Sure, I'd love it too.
That's one of my favorites.
I would say, like, play puppets!
Yeah. But I was surprised.
Yeah. Deep, deep cut.
Christmas Island.
Right, like Christmas Island.
Unbelievable deep cut.
Like, only people.
Who had, like, single B-side collections would be like, oh, wow, yeah.
Glad they played that.
Is Alan back in the band?
Yeah. But, yeah, there is just something.
It's, yeah, I think, you know, especially the devotional tour.
I think that was interesting that he mentioned higher love.
Obviously, religious invocations, but, like, especially that tour.
It just looks like liturgical.
I don't know any other word to describe the show.
Yeah, I got that very strong sense.
Performing Black Celebration, it did...
Yes, it felt epic, it felt fascist, it felt like it was an official national anthem of some sort that we were all participating in.
Yes. So I don't know.
Conservatives should stop criticizing Hispanics.
I guess that's maybe my takeaway.
But yeah, but don't they make up most of the Republican Party now?
Right. They just are totally misunderstood, I think.
What do you make of the song, But Not Tonight?
Because I gotta be honest, that is, for as poppy as it is, I really...
Love that song.
Oh yeah, I do too.
Nothing to analyze, you know, really.
But like, there's just something great about that song.
And I think the band hates that song almost as much as they hate It's Called A Heart.
Yeah. Well, so apparently, or reportedly, it was recorded in three hours.
And, you know...
No doubt it took longer to write that song or to come up with it, but maybe not.
Maybe it was just a kind of one-off.
They'd done this whole album.
It seems easy for them just to spit it out because you're just in the rhythm of it all.
Yeah, I love that song.
I think it's great.
It's a classic.
So Monica Rodriguez claimed that that was her favorite song from Depeche Mode.
Like, enjoy the silence, personal Jesus, just can't get enough.
No, but not tonight.
Oh God, it's raining, but I'm not complaining.
It's filling me up with new life.
The stars in the sky bring tears to my eyes.
They're lighting my way tonight.
And I haven't felt so alive in years.
Just for a day on a day like
today, I'll get away from this constant debauchery.
The wind in my hair makes me so...
One interesting tidbit, so that was the B-side for Stripped, and when they sent the music to Sire, which is a synth-pop outfit similar to Mute, or maybe even connected, I think connected with Mute,
in fact, in the United States, and they were producing Madonna and all this kind of stuff, they flipped it, and they made Stripped the B-side.
Just because it was poppier and would appeal to an American audience.
I mean, it sounds closer to Madonna, you could say, than it sounds to the Black Celebration album.
So, there it is.
Yeah, I think it's a good song.
I actually don't blame them.
I love Stripped, and Stripped is a better song, but it's like, I don't know, Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields.
Like, Strawberry Fields is a better song, but of course you put Penny Lane.
As the A-side, because it's probably going to hit now and burn out faster, whereas a deeper song like Strawberry Fields Forever, maybe it's not even that deep, but a better song like Strawberry Fields Forever, you put as the B-side and it's got more,
I don't know what's the word, linearity maybe to it.
But yeah, I don't blame them for doing that, actually.