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Sept. 13, 2023 - RadixJournal - Richard Spencer
58:14
I've Got the Pope Blocked

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit radixjournal.substack.comNeema Parvini (aka “Academic Agent”) joins Richard and Mark to look back at the recent "#BantheADL” online campaign. They also discuss the trajectory of the “brands” of Judaism, Zionism, and Israel. Might Greenblatt be pursuing a failing strategy? In the second hour, the gang revisits 9/11 and the lead-up to the Second Gulf War. Parvini’s new book has …

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Yeah, well, I mean, speaking of Italy, I have actually discovered that there is a mole in Rome working for Nick Fuentes, and that is the Pope.
Oh, I see.
I discovered before I came on air, I have the Pope blocked.
He's a great person.
Very mysterious, because I have no memory of blocking the Pope.
Wow.
And I did block 7,000 people this week on, like, a chain.
Like a chain thing, like anybody following a griper was blocked, like flat.
And the Pope must follow a griper somewhere along the line.
Wow!
I'm pretty sure the Pope would send them all to hell, all the gripers to hell.
Right.
I mean, that's my sense of it, yeah.
I mean, I don't see them aligned with the politics of the Pope in any meaningful way.
Yeah, I'm only kidding, obviously.
But I was, it was one of those things, you know, when you're looking for, I was like, why isn't the Pope coming up?
I was like, oh, it's because I've got him blocked.
But there we are.
That's funny.
Yes, okay, so.
Let's talk about the whole thing.
I don't.
I don't even quite know where to begin with this, because I think we're kind of in the aftermath of the Ban the ADL campaign, and maybe that's a good time to assess things.
It was very interesting, and I would say that...
Mark has agreed with me.
Overall, I think this is a good thing.
Getting people more skeptical of certain taboos, etc.
But let's also kind of put this into perspective.
Elon Musk, I think right now, is meeting with Bibi Netanyahu.
And Biden snubbed him to some degree.
I think we should also put into perspective the Yakarino comments, which...
Elon seconded and seems to be going along with of, you know, we will combat anti-Semitism in all its forms and blah, blah, blah.
Elon has said as much himself.
I also get a very strong feeling from Elon that he's not serious about any of this stuff.
And I get a very strong feeling that he's interested.
He got interested in the Bandy ADL campaign because it's a way of perhaps suing them and making some money back on this tremendous loss he's taken purchasing Twitter.
So there it is.
I'll just kind of set up those things.
Do any of those pique your interest?
My initial reaction when Elon said he was going to ban the ADL was like, well...
How on earth is that going to go in court?
And we should be like, yes, Mr. Musk, when you unbanned Andrew Anglin and E. Michael Jones, what were you thinking?
I mean, what is his possible answer to those sorts of questions?
Because there's just no...
If the ADL want to find evidence of an increase in antisemitism, quote-unquote, on Twitter since he's taken over, It's all just there.
So I just don't know how that case would go.
And a lot of people are saying, well, it's not about that.
It's about the discovery element.
But I just don't see if it actually went to court at all.
I don't see how Elon Musk could come out the other side of it.
The ADL would make the obvious defense, which is that we're trying to help Twitter.
We're not trying to destroy its value.
Twitter's value will be destroyed by the presence of Andrew Anglin and Nick Fuentes and company.
We're trying to help you.
So the idea that they maliciously interfered with his business out of spite or something, yeah, that seems like an impossible case to win.
But then there's an even deeper element, which I have been trying to subtly or not so subtly draw people's attention to all week.
Which is that the specific people who Musk has chosen to signal boost on this have, you know, long and deep-standing ties with well-known neo-Nazi groups.
I mean, there's just no two ways about that.
That, for some reason, has not been highlighted in the media.
But, I mean, you know, Elon Musk is now, like, literally one degree of separation away from Mike Enoch.
I mean, I'm not even kidding.
Or, I don't know, Tom Sewell or someone like this.
I mean, these are the...
What's his name?
Matt Parrott.
All these sorts of characters who are people I don't actually know.
They're people I've been kind of discovering through my little researches this week.
And I'm like, well, I mean, if ever a story was waiting to completely destroy somebody, how hard would it be for some intrepid journalist, some deep throat type character to just kind of pull the trigger on that?
It just seems to be a ticking time bomb when it comes to who Musk has chosen to associate himself with.
I have to let me to the conclusion, Richard.
It's led me to the conclusion that either some of these people who Musk is signal boosting are There aren't quite who they appear to be.
Or there is a second alternative, which is that Elon Musk is secretly a white nationalist slash neo-Nazi after all.
I lean towards the former, but the second is possible.
Well, no, this is intriguing, and I would like to talk about this.
I'm not sure there are only two options.
Elon has paled around with some very strange figures, and each of them has some plausible deniability to them.
So, you know, Kim.com, Ian, Michael, Chong, all of these people have background.
You can just kind of dig a little bit and find connections to, say, Mike Enoch, as you mentioned.
But I think Elon kind of deals with them and uses them as little fronts or boosts them without really committing to them.
And it does surprise me to some degree that Keith has apparently become one of these, or at least for the time being.
But it also kind of fits with Elon's General vibe of this kind of non-committal flirtation with all of these different people.
And what he's after by that, I think, is an interesting question.
Whether he's a secret neo-Nazi, who knows?
What does that even mean?
But I think there's some other angles to that that could be pursued.
But the other thing, I'll just mention this.
Keith has been the central focus of this stuff.
And he's gone on a lot of spaces.
He's handled himself well in spaces, in fact.
He's kind of stuck to the script, not gone off in different directions, kind of made this about fairness and blah, blah, blah.
But he hasn't really gotten, like, I agree with you that there hasn't been a lot of mention of Keith in the press.
Like, there are a few tidbits here and there, but it's been kind of muted.
And I don't know if that's because they don't want to promote Keith or whether they don't find him compelling or what.
Well, I mean, to give, just in the interest of fairness, A number of publications did mention Keith, but they've mentioned him by his real name.
But they are...
How can I put this?
I don't know if you've noticed this over your years of watching the media, but it's like there are several tiers of media.
And the top-tier media, which I would liken to the Ministry of Truth in Orwell.
The Times, the New York Times, the BBC, CNN.
This is kind of top-line, tier-one media.
They didn't mention him or go into that aspect of the story at all.
In fact, they barely mentioned the hashtag ban the ADL thing at all.
And I did also notice that the BBC seemed to never cover the ADL period.
If you search ADL on the BBC website, there's scarcity ever mentioned.
There'll be a source in one story from 10 years ago or something, but you don't come across the ADL in BBC much.
It was picked up by publications like Rolling Stone, which for some reason has become a kind of weird kind of...
Yeah, Rock is dead.
Rock is dead, so this is where they are now.
I think Forbes, a couple of the Jewish outlets, but like you said, it was muted.
And more importantly, Richard, the story wasn't...
If I was a journalist, I'd be like, this is one of the hottest stories ever.
Because this dude...
Who's being signal-boosted by the richest man in the world.
Yeah.
Is literally one degree of separation away from Nick Fuentes.
Oh.
The whole Kenya West thing that happened like six months ago.
That's the story.
I mean, you can just link Elon to that straight away.
Academic.
I think it's a dilemma, though, from their perspective, right?
So it's probably a story that some of them have decided to sit on because they don't want to give attention to these guys, right?
So it becomes a kind of conspiracy of silence.
I get that, yeah.
Yeah, so I mean, that's the other possibility is they just don't want to give attention to a guy like Keith Woods because then people will be like, well, you know, Elon Musk is, a lot of people have a favorable view of Elon Musk.
He's a very popular, he's one of the most famous people in the world.
Yes.
And if, you know, so if they start talking about his connection to Keith Woods, sure, some number of people will be like, oh, that's disgusting and dislike.
Elon Musk, but a large number of people will also be like, oh, well, what's this Keith Woods guy about?
If Elon Musk likes him, then maybe I should check him out.
You'd be sending a lot of people down that rabbit hole, right, Mark, is what you're saying?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think it's a known phenomenon in media or just in communications.
You have a person that is well-regarded.
And you associate something with them, that thing will take on positive associations.
You know, the reverse works as well, but I think you understand my point.
It's a kind of, it's a dilemma that they're faced with, essentially.
I understand that.
And there is another thing as well, which is that, you know, in media, they talk about a family of faces.
Like, you know...
In TV land, they talk about the family of faces.
And there are certain people who...
At one point, Richard, you were chosen for some reason to be part of this family of faces for a brief period there.
They were like, this is going to be the face of the alt-right for a while.
And they also did that with Nick Fuentes.
But for whatever reason, they're very kind of choosy about who then gets to be that face.
I just find it a little bit...
I don't think he's compelling enough.
I'll be...
You might actually appreciate these comments, and I'm sorry if this is just brutal, but Heath, to his credit, stuck to the script, but that's not terribly interesting.
You know, like, endlessly saying that the ADL is unfair and Leo Frank was possibly guilty or whatever.
Just doing this, like...
There's always been this dilemma, and this is why I think the alt-right hated me and so on, is because they genuinely want to red-pill normies by giving them information.
I think that is not a particularly useful task.
I think that...
Things happen through people and personalities.
Things happen through the Trump movement.
Through Donald Trump himself.
For better and for worse.
Maybe mostly for worse.
He incarnated something.
And there always needs to be a leader.
Someone needs to incarnate what is happening.
And these kind of like anons telling themselves that...
The face fags are harming the movement and that we just need to all be anonymous and trade information.
I just find this delusional and self-serving because it justifies what they would do anyway, which is tweet all the time.
At the end of the day, there is a leadership principle.
That dominates every political or social movement.
And if you want to go against that, you're just harming things.
I mean, I have plenty of criticisms of Nick Fuentes, but the kind of cult-like or incarnation of everything that they care about in one person, I have no criticism over.
As the guy who wrote The Populist Illusion, I'm well aware of the principle of the organized minority leading to power and so on.
The trouble is that the powers that be, if you want, are extremely aware of this principle themselves.
And they are drawn to organization like a moth to a flame.
I mean, they literally, that's what they look for.
I put out a video yesterday.
Talking about the long-standing trilateral relationship between the ADL, the FBI, and various kind of quote-unquote far-right groups going all the way back to George Lincoln Rockwell.
And in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, this trilateral relationship was kind of quite well...
Quite a well-worn thing, to the point where, at one point, there were 10,000 members of the Ku Klux Klan, of which, like, one in ten was literally a federal agent, right?
So, I mean, they had pretty deep infiltration of these groups, and some of the leaders would give information freely because they kind of liked the notoriety of it.
The notoriety of, you know, being seen to be, you know, the big bad or whatever in the eyes of the people.
Or they were truly true believers and they thought, well, you know, this will get me more followers or something.
And when the kind of alt-right came about and the kind of decentralization of the internet and the fact there were just so many people spread all about and there was no...
They were kind of a disorganized mess, if you want.
It was kind of very, there was no central leader, there was no real hierarchy.
That was a little bit of a problem for them initially.
And then, how can I just put this, certain people then did start to get more organized and actually started to create groups that more closely resemble.
The sorts of groups they had pretty fully under control back in the 60s and the 70s.
And I mean, I understand what you're saying, right?
I understand what you're saying too, because it's a bit of a catch-22, right?
Because if you ever want to get anywhere, you need to organize.
But they know that, right?
And they actually prefer it when people do have a hierarchy, people do have specific leaders you can take out, people do have a kind of chain of command, because that can be gamed.
That can be infiltrated in a way that somebody like Bronze Age Purvish shitposting on Twitter cannot be, if you understand what I'm saying.
Well, he can definitely be gamed.
I mean, and what I would say is they're also learning.
They are also learning.
See, I kind of disagree here.
Go on, go on.
So I definitely understand what you're saying.
And I also, and the decapitation.
Is a very effective way of ending someone.
And as we know, the media loves a narrative and they love to pull someone up by the bootstraps, knock him over the head, send him to the mat, and then maybe pull him up again.
They like these kind of inflation-deflation narratives.
So I agree with all of that.
I think we're in a bit of a 2.0 sphere here.
I would recommend that you read some of these books.
One of the ones that I read was called This Is Not Propaganda.
It's an interesting book on a lot of things going up to 2016.
Someone mentioned this, the idea of a network society.
There were accounts that would tweet endlessly about, say, the Green Revolution in Iran in 2009 or thereabouts.
And then they would just go silent for a year.
But they have a lot of followers.
So they earned like 80,000 followers by 20%.
And then they'd start tweeting about Donald Trump incessantly, and they'd retain, say, 60 or 70% of those followers, and they gain some new ones.
And then they go silent.
And then they treat about this subject.
There's a certain kind of weird in this day and age authenticity of the anonymous tweeter and truth teller.
And this is something that I think clearly foreign intelligence agencies have recognized and weaponized.
Andrew Tate being kind of flown out to Saudi Arabia and converting to Islam.
All of these just weird figures, these kind of meaningless figures tweeting.
Ian Michael Chong is an excellent example.
This 50-year-old, 50-something man in Malaysia tweeting about how they've taken Blockbuster Video away and how Margot Robbie is amid and...
All of this kind of stuff, it can be weaponized and political campaigns, intelligence agencies, governments know this and use it.
And even someone like Fuentes, I mean, I don't want to accuse him of anything directly because I know he kind of like flows and gets in moods and gets infatuated.
The kind of pro-China stuff that I'm seeing from From him that I'm just seeing clips of.
Pretty worrying.
So, I mean, I'm sorry.
Bap is like an excellent example of a figure who can be weaponized in certain directions.
Ricky Vaughn was like this.
So, I think the anonymity can be weaponized.
And so, they've kind of cracked the nut of the decentralized...
I mean, Ron DeSantis has spent tens of thousands of dollars giving it to far-right Jewish Nazis in order to create cringe videos of the swastika superimposed on the state of Florida.
They're doing this, and they're doing it consciously, and it's real.
I think we're in a kind of different mode now, where what you're talking about, it can reoccur again, might be reoccurring with something like Patriot Front or whatever, and certainly reoccurred in the past.
But I think there's almost a new danger, which is the kind of, is it a bot?
Is it a human?
Who is he or she working for?
Et cetera.
I would certainly agree with everything you just said there, Richard, as well, that since 2000...
2016, 2017, they have got a lot better at being not only using bots or, you know, maybe people in call centers or whatever.
I mean, like I said, I blocked 7,000 people this week.
7,000, right?
Wow.
Your fingers aren't tired?
Huh?
I said your fingers aren't.
I mean, being a...
Being a man who grew up in Nintendo, I can use technology myself to...
You can use something called blockchain to just block the entire...
You know, a 3,000 follower account just like that, and all his followers.
Remarkably, I did that without taking any hit in my own followership whatsoever, which tells you something, right?
7,000 accounts in our spaces, and none of them...
Have any rituals with me?
I mean, it's just kind of crazy.
And if you go through, if you kind of scroll through my Twitter feed all week, I have been kind of showing that there's something inorganic that happens when you mention certain words, right?
Because they're triggered by keywords.
So if you want to have a cluster of people attacking you straight away, you just mention like, you know, Mention Nick, or mention the Groyper, or mention Keith or something, and they're there.
I first noticed this happening back around the Kanye West campaign, where it happened, and I blocked about 3,000 accounts back then, and then it happened in a much larger way this time.
It was a much, much bigger campaign than the kind of juicy 2024 campaign.
And, I mean...
You know, these tools are available to everyone, right?
So that could just boil down to, well, Elon Musk has got more money than Kanye West or something.
I don't know.
Or maybe they've got a bigger budget or something.
But what I'm saying is it's clear that there's something inorganic going on with that.
But also, Richard, to your point, they have also weaponized the principle of...
And this is like a technique that goes...
All the way back to, like, Edward Bernays and people like that, you know, basic propaganda stuff, of basically using the big influencer accounts and kind of gently nudging them this way or that way, this way or that way.
I noticed that the most recent one, remember there was that guy with the ginger beard who just kind of, like, sang that song?
Oh, yeah, totally.
Now, I didn't touch that.
I just thought I was just like, yeah, you know, I've got a kind of sixth sense for these sorts of things.
But the point is, if you want to get red Twitter, by which I mean not just the kind of Steve Turley's and the MAGA crowd, but even the DR, all talking about the same thing at the same time on the same day, it's not that difficult to game that in this day and age either.
And that's also one of the things I look out for.
I have always, both on YouTube and on Twitter, tried to counter-program my stuff.
So I'm actually talking about not the same, like I try as much as possible to talk about something else because I'm always thinking, well, why is this coming across my desk?
Why do I have access to this information?
And this is something I've tried to explain to people before.
Just because it's not coming from MSM anymore and now it's coming through social media doesn't mean...
You're not being worked in some sort of way.
This is a more general point, I suppose.
What was Bernays' masterpiece was a feminist campaign in favor of smoking.
And so it was like women went and marched and they were like, we can smoke cigarettes too.
Look at us.
We can do anything a man can do.
And it was all secretly funded by Marlboro or something.
Wasn't that the actual thing?
I don't think I'm exaggerating.
No, he did.
He called them Liberty Sticks, I think it was.
Liberty Sticks.
And if you really dig into that, he was like, well, who do people trust?
Scientists.
We need to get some scientists to say, like, cigarettes are healthy.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, if you haven't read Propaganda by Benet, it's an absolute...
Absolute classic.
Yeah.
But, you know, these are all techniques.
A more recent book that all of these Nudge Unit people would be familiar with the principles of.
It's called Pre-Suasion by, I think it's called Robert Caldini, where there are six really key areas of persuasion.
Like, he talks about social proof.
He talks about, you know, I can't remember all six of them right now, but...
I mean, obviously they know these tactics and they exploit them.
And I actually think as well, I'm not going to name any names, that increasingly certain, you know, certain influencers, you know, somebody akin to me, but not me, may have actually just been straight up paid off at this point.
They could just be working, you know, they could have got a contract to work for somebody.
There are some really obvious cases that I won't mention, but it's like, all right, okay, this guy is now in the tank for this person, and they're going to try to transfer their influence onto this thing that they want people to like.
In pro wrestling, they called it a rub.
Well, like Pedro Gonzalez or something.
I never liked Pedro to begin with, but it seems, I mean, if he's not being directly...
Yeah, Pedro, exactly.
Well, if he's not being directly paid by the, you know, Stand for America PAC or Ron DeSantis or whatever it is, never back down, then I would, in a way, have much less respect for him.
Like, if he were doing this genuinely, that would almost be, like, sad or even pathological.
But, yeah, there's just no way he's not being paid.
And it's...
Yeah, I don't even need to go into it.
I think it's so obvious.
But I think there are cases like that.
And I think there are more kind of dubious cases where it's like something authentic that's maybe enveloped in something inauthentic.
Like the Richmond, North of Richmond guy.
He seems to be a real person.
And how exactly he was chosen might be...
Random or arbitrary?
I don't think it's as simple as they went out and paid him to write this song.
I think it was a little more organic.
It was kind of out there.
And he was getting 50 views on YouTube for his original compositions, which is probably like most amateur artists out there.
And there was some kind of campaign where it clicked.
And they did capture red Twitter.
I mean, this is another thing that I've noticed, which is that there's very little difference, really, between mainstream conservatives or alt-mainstream conservatives and the dissident right and people who have anime and swastikas in their profile.
They all kind of like the same stuff.
In fact, that guy, the Richmond guy, that kind of blew up in their faces because he just came out and said, I'm not right-wing guys.
Then you saw all these same accounts two weeks later disavowing him and saying, oh, it was a rubbish song anyway, and all this sort of stuff.
It's amazing to watch happen over and over again.
It even happened with the ban the ADL thing, to be honest, which is that You know, that leaked over into kind of fairly mainstream right-wing sources, right?
But if you notice the way that story developed, it very quickly became yet another kind of the people versus the woke storyline, right?
Yes.
Specifically Jewish element was lost.
And it's like, oh, this is a massive victory against the woke ADL.
Right.
or became a free speech issue.
As opposed to the Zionist ADL.
Yeah, and you definitely nailed it because Stephen Miller and from the Trump administration, there are a number of Stephen Millers out there, and also Ben Shapiro endorsed it.
And they were able to kind of successfully navigate it.
So what I've noticed is also the kind of like intelligence and adaptation that's occurred among the right where...
Remember back in 2016 and 2015, Ben Shapiro was being just attacked by the alt-right.
He was just, you know, lambasting them, condemning them left and right, condemning all of them.
And he was being made fun of for being short and, you know, being Jewish, being made fun of by Milo for being Jewish.
I mean, you know, ironies abound.
He's gotten smarter.
And so what I noticed from like Stephen Miller and Ben Shapiro is that they would say things like, you know, the ADL no longer stands for the Jewish community or something like that.
And, you know, as a staunch supporter of Israel, I condemn the ADL.
I mean, they were able to kind of absorb the energy and turn it into something that was...
Really viable for them, in fact, which is attacking the wokesters who, you know, are in favor of the Palestinians and against, you know, the Jewish state, etc.
It was kind of brilliant the way they've adapted.
To me, I would call this classic containment, just something I've written on quite a bit.
It's one of the favorite techniques of power, right, is to take a threat and contain it.
It actually goes, well, you can read what I've written on containment on my substack, but it's actually something that comes out of Shakespeare scholarship, believe it or not.
There was a guy called Stephen Greenblatt, the famous New Historicist kind of Shakespearean, and this was a technique that they used quite a lot in the Tudor and Stuart courts.
Where, I mean, James I, he'd have like three people hanging up, right?
About to, you know, they were about to swing on the noose.
And at the last minute, he'd cut the rope and they'd have to beg for their lives.
And now, like, then he'd offer them a job or something, the threat.
It's being contained.
I mean, that's an extreme example.
The much simpler example in recent times is the...
Do you remember in the era of Tony Blair and George Bush, a million people marched on London?
Against the Iraq War?
Yeah, Stop the War Coalition.
Yeah, that was remarkable.
I mean, imagine if Tony Blair was like, right, you can't protest, we're going to get the tanks out, shoot you all, versus...
Let them have their march.
For them, it was like the biggest win ever.
They were all congratulating themselves.
This is set history.
Tony Blair got elected again after that.
Iraq war still happened.
They got away with everything.
I see the populist right contained over and over and over again with all of these kind of...
Pulse of Victories, in a way.
My favorite channel to watch, and you should watch it, because I think you'd love it, for the same reasons that I do.
There's a guy called Dr. Steve Turley, who's like a full-on mega populist, right?
I used to watch him, and it got to be too much at some point.
I mean, it's hilarious.
But it's like, I mean, he made 18 videos about Bud Light.
Yeah, exactly.
You've got 18 videos out of it.
And it's like all this energy and all this huge win.
And I have often thought red Twitter and just the right in general are the easiest people in the world to sign up in a way because they're just so desperate for any kind of bit of red meat, any bit of, you know, they don't even want to look beneath the surface or anything.
And so they can be led into anything.
They can be pied-piped into any little trap you want, which is why I increasingly voice skepticism about a lot of these things.
Just to come back to the hashtag ADL thing for a moment to be serious, one of the reasons I've been critical of these people, because it was largely the same people who were behind the The 2024 thing trending and becoming a big thing four, five, six months ago.
I was against that as well.
It's because if you have a look at the net effect of all of their activities, they all encourage you to basically declare where you are.
You're basically saying, I am an enemy of the regime.
I'm going to put this little juice symbol in my...
In my Twitter profile, I'm going to join this Telegram group, and this Discord, and this one, and basically make you just super easy, if they really wanted to, to track, oh, okay, who are the supporters?
These guys here.
Those ones.
The ones with the G symbol on them.
Or the guys who tweeted this hashtag.
Right?
So, let's just pretend that Elon Musk makes a deal with the ADL, and then agrees, oh, we're really going to crack down on anti-Semitism now.
How hard would it be to find out whoever tweeted the ban the ADL, and they could be like, there it is.
There's the hundred thousand evil right-wingers.
We can just ban them all at once.
Yes.
You understand what I'm saying, right?
I voiced these same concerns, actually, last week on this show.
Yeah, I do definitely understand.
But as far as the Gruypers are...
What do you think the mechanism is there?
I actually had the belief that Nick has an organic or somewhat organic audience.
I think that people are just kind of like...
It is a kind of cult with Nick in a pejorative sense of that word.
Treat the word cult as a pejorative generally.
But maybe not, from his perspective, it's not entirely pejorative because he's got a lot of young guys that are energized.
I think that a lot of his talking points are unhealthy and toxic.
The Catholicism, the inceldom that he's promoting, these sort of things I'm not on board with.
But I do have a sense that He is tapping into something that is organic, at least on one level.
Now, I think that people have shown that he's done some botting, for example, to increase his numbers at his own site.
Or I've been convinced by some of the data that I've seen showing that he is increasing the views of his own show at his website.
You know, maybe even by as much as twice.
But nevertheless, if there is an organic audience there and that he's just doing that to kind of, you know, it's sort of the phenomenon of like, well, you know, if you give an appearance of success, then that will drive more people to your show if it seems like a lot of people are watching it.
So he's playing one of those games.
But as far as the trolling is concerned, You know, I definitely think it is the case that a lot of these guys get into chat rooms and organize specifically to, you know, attack certain people.
I mean, they've done it to me.
They've done it to you.
They've done it to others.
I think they've done it to you or me.
Mark, there's too many of them.
When you block 4,000 people and then it's like, oh, here's another guy who joined in September 2023 with 300 followers.
None of whom are mutuals.
Some of these guys didn't even follow Keith Woods.
Some of these guys, I mean, if you look at their behavior, they're quite clearly bots.
Now, that's not to say that those bots are being paid for by the government or something like that.
It could be, as you say, a kind of smoke and mirrors campaign to make him seem like a bigger deal than he is.
But it's just like when you've been on Twitter for as long as some of us have, You can tell what's real and what's not.
And some of those things just aren't, you know, I, you know, how can I put this?
I was getting guys who follow me with like way smaller followerships than I have to try it out, just to try out the keywords and to see how quickly the reaction time would be and to see how many of those clusters is.
It was like catching, putting out flypaper, catching flies.
And I think I've got the entire network now.
It's about 7,000.
The E2023 one, the 2024 one, was smaller.
Bear in mind, that was another 3,000 people.
So what I'm saying is, if Nick genuinely has a dedicated audience of that many, that organized, maybe he will be the next coming of Mussolini or something.
But I'm afraid to say that it's just obviously not real.
You say that some percentage of it is real, because even, you know, in other words, it could be a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy to some extent.
So some kids will just be, you know, disaffected teenagers who see a lot of people joining this trolling campaign, so will join themselves.
Yeah, I mean, that's the purpose of it, of doing it, right?
Because you want to feel like you're part of something.
And there are definitely real people, right?
There are definitely...
Young guys who are kind of swept up in all of this.
And all I'm saying is that when it comes to this, there are just too many odd things, right?
I mean, you mentioned somebody who went to jail for speaking outside on Jan 6th.
Well, I mean, he was there on Jan 6th and he didn't go to jail.
He flew to London and met Keith Woods and took a selfie in broad daylight.
Yeah, I mean, apparently British Security Services had nothing to say about that.
Yeah, just so you know, I'm not even really contesting your premise.
I'm just, you know, just curious as to, I guess, to what extent?
Like, if you said, if you could give a kind of percentage number, what percent of it is organic and what percent of it is synthetic and constructed?
What percentage would you give?
I think the core organized group, my estimate would be about 600.
And I'll tell you why.
Because when all of this first kicked off in November, December last year, they tried to raid my YouTube channel.
And I have a very organized mod team who basically just banned them all that day.
And that was it.
That was the end of it.
So they clearly don't pay for the campaign on YouTube as much as they do on Twitter, right?
And I mean, you can pretty much see them, like they're there in the Telegram group, right?
Oh, go on, target that one, target that one, target that one.
But that core organized group is about 500, 600.
You can also just see it on Cozy, right?
Just the viewership numbers on Cozy, right?
How many people watch this show or that show?
I'm meant to believe, like, a guy who has a show which 500 people watch now has, like, 7,000 people trying to attack somebody who said something bad about him on Twitter.
I mean, I am someone with a dedicated audience, right?
With a loyal, dedicated audience that I've built up over years and people who will defend me and so on, right, organically.
It would never be that fast.
It would never be that dedicated.
It would never be in that high amount of numbers, right?
Just wouldn't happen.
And if that is real, that's what I'm saying.
He's probably got enough to, like, march on road at this point.
But I doubt it, somehow.
Yeah, I mean, to your point, like, but it could even be, and maybe you think this theory is incorrect, well, it could be people promoting guys like Nick, obviously.
Backers of Nick could be funding campaigns.
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Or Nick himself could be fighting him, theoretically.
He's got some money.
You have to think about, though, the video I made about the trilateral relationship between the ADL, these far-right groups, and law enforcement is as follows.
The ADL want to tell a story, and the story they want to tell is always the same.
There are record levels of anti-Semitism now.
So we need...
More influence, more power, more money.
Everybody on this call knows the ADL's core game, right?
You need one of our experts to come in and tell you how to run your platform.
You need one of our experts to come in to write your kind of speech codes, right?
And the ADL, I mean, one thing I've noticed about them is that there's almost nothing too petty, right?
I was having a look at a lawsuit that they filed just a couple of days ago against this little group in California.
It's like a kind of little educational group, super woke, super kind of, you know, they do that Latinx thing, right?
Basically teaching like ethnic studies courses to a couple of little colleges and a couple of schools in the California area.
Okay.
They have just hit that group and those schools with a massive lawsuit basically saying like, yeah, there's a problem with this group because they're teaching anti-Semitic studies.
There's almost nothing too small that the ADL won't kind of chase up.
They're very thorough and they're very organized in that way.
And if you want to tell the story that there are record levels of antisemitism going on on Twitter right now, a bot campaign of 10,000...
Either bots or people in call centres harassing every public figure and calling them a Jew is probably going to be quite, you know, if you wanted to collect that data.
And show it in court or you wanted to, you know, just publish it on the ADL website and, you know, when they're giving their pitch to whatever the company is to say, well, there has been a 250% increase in anti-Semitism since 2022 on the platform.
It's basically doing their job for them, isn't it?
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Whether it's within or unwitting, it's doing their job for them.
Don't you think it was curious that that Blood Tribe group kind of materialized the weekend of the Ban the ADL campaign?
I was talking about this a little bit last week, and I'm obviously not positive about this, and I think also multiple things can be true at the same time.
That group can very well be genuine.
But you just need a little push here and maybe a shove there and a little facilitation here.
And you've got yourself a big Nazi-clad rally on a Florida highway.
And the coincidence was pretty startling, in fact, that that happened just immediately afterward.
Yeah, remarkable.
There is also, while I'm, I only have a few minutes, but there is also another aspect of this story, because I've been, you know, I've been, when I kind of get into something, I start researching it inside and out.
And again, I don't know if this is news to some of you guys or not, but one of the little discoveries I made is that the SPLC and the ADL are not actually the best of friends.
They actually compete for...
You know, those experts' advisory positions and budget and, you know, they're actually, to use juvenile language, kind of rival castles within the system.
The SPLC want the experts to be one of their guys, right?
And not the ADL guy.
I mean, sometimes they work together, sometimes they don't, right?
But one of the little discoveries I made along the way was that...
When Jonathan Greenblatt took over from Abe Foxman, he basically tried to muscle in on the SPLC's turf, and he started talking much more about civil rights, and he was more sympathetic to black issues, and was less, how can I put it, more obviously left-wing, if that makes any sense, and less kind of overtly, I mean...
Obviously, it's the ADL, so it's going to be quite Jewish, but he started talking about some of these other issues.
And he's obviously a bit more Democrat.
I think Greenblatt had some sort of background with Obama at one point, right?
And apparently, the Me Too stuff...
Do you remember when a lot of the Me Too stuff happened back in 2018, I think it was?
Of course, yeah.
This was pretty strongly backed by the Southern Poverty Law Center, and a lot of the people who were hit were big donators.
to the ADL, like Harvey Weinstein and various other characters.
Interesting.
And, yeah, so one of the things I didn't quite appreciate before now, because from the outside looking in, it looks like a blob, right?
It looks like this is just the regime.
They're actually like gangsters who are Launching these operations against each other all the time, right?
And one of the little interesting little things is there's an odd SPLC angle to what has been going on recently that you may want to dig into in your own time.
So that's just something to be aware of.
A hidden dynamic.
The other thing is that when Jonathan Greenblatt...
Made that move to muscle in on a SPLC turf.
He actually lost a lot of his more conservative Zionist support.
Like the ADL lost credibility with some conservative Zionist types.
Not all, but some, right?
So this talking point that the ADL has lost its way is starting to get louder in specifically Jewish publications.
And if I was to make a prediction as to what may happen, ultimately, I think all of this may result in Greenblatt stepping down and being replaced at the end of the day.
That's interesting.
I think that the ADL has itself come to be seen as being a bit too woke, a bit too partisan, and so on.
And so, you know, they need an ADL that's kind of...
Going to be as friendly with Ron DeSantis as it is with the DNC.
Yeah, well, you've got to go hunting where the ducks are.
And in terms of sympathy towards Zionist causes and Jews in general, that's now increasingly just a right-wing phenomenon.
I mean, I don't think the...
When I've seen Jonathan Greenblatt interviewed in other times, I did get the sense that what he's doing is a bit outmoded.
He was like, oh, we're the put-upon, oppressed Jewish community, and we're going to talk to the put-upon, oppressed Black community, and maybe the Native Americans will come on board and so on.
I think that kind of stuff...
Made sense decades ago.
I don't think the left wing views Israel like that at all.
And I think the left wing is actually very sympathetic towards criticism of hypocrisy on the ADL.
You know, like what we can't boycott.
Israel, we can't speak out on behalf of Palestinians' rights and so on.
And yet you're frantically waving your hands about the Nazis on Twitter.
This is bullshit.
I think actually a lot of left-wing people are highly sympathetic towards that.
Yeah, I mean, to the earlier point, if you have a look at SPLC-funded talking points, it's a lot about indigenous, ethnic voices.
How do we get to, like, hear the real Native America and all this sort of stuff?
You know, it's post-colonial.
It's kind of post-colonial stuff.
And reading through that lawsuit that I posted earlier on is quite interesting because the ADL kind of tried to phrase things in a way like, oh, yeah, of course, we support all of these things.
But don't you go bloody talking about those Palestinians, all right?
That's basically what it boils down to.
Like, do not...
Draw attention to the fact that Israel was founded in 1947.
Thank you very much.
And I do think that this will...
I think you talked about this a couple of weeks ago, right, Richard?
This will increasingly become untenable in the left-wing coalition because it's just like, well, you cannot maintain these two narratives at the same time.
And if you have a look at the people they're suing, it's not like...
Well, they're not wasps.
These people in California, they're not wasps.
So it looks like punching down as well.
It looks like straightforward ADL oppression of, you know, literally like Latino and black professors in California.
Whereas the Ron DeSantis people would eat that up like birthday cake.
You know, go after the wokes.
My long-standing thesis is the whole...
The woke is going to get put away as part of this.
The woke is like, there's a comedian in this country called David Baddiel, a Jewish comedian, who wrote a book called Jews Don't Count.
What that book is about, if you read it, is actually about Jews not being part of the progressive stack anymore.
Jews no longer being, Jews basically being seen as rich and powerful and Essentially, it's just white.
And there's been a few flare-ups of that.
Again, people can only remember one news cycle back.
Do you remember when Jonathan Greenblatt basically told off Whoopi Goldberg, a naughty schoolgirl on national television?
I do remember that.
I mean, that was basically this flare-up happening, of which, obviously, writ large is Kanye West.
Essentially, it's kind of Kanye West is just one aspect of this other story that's happening over on the left.
Definitely.
Well, let's do this, AA.
That's a good note to end on, and I don't want to keep you too long because I know you have some commitments as well coming up.
But thanks for being on, and you are obviously welcome back anytime.
Fantastic, and I will just say...
I do have my new book out, Prophets of Doom, at the moment, so check that out.
It's the sequel to Populist Delusion, and it covers, in much the same way it covers some interesting thinkers.
I start with Vico, and we look at Gobineau, and Carlisle, and Spengler, and Glubb, and Arnold Toynbee, who nobody ever reads anymore.
That's kind of an interesting guy.
Evolo's in there, so it should be a good kind of...
Primer for historical history and to think civilizationally.
But anyway, I'll see you guys soon.
Thanks for having me.
Excellent.
Yeah, thanks for being on.
Yeah, I have ordered my copy and I will be reading it shortly.
And hopefully that will replace kind of like Tom Sunich's book, which is a bit not perfect as a kind of primer on this stuff.
I don't talk about why it's really important to be a pagan, for example.
But, you know, maybe you guys agree with that.
Alright, I'll see you guys soon.
Bye.
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