RadixJournal - Richard Spencer - The End of America First?

Feb. 17, 2021 - RadixJournal - Richard Spencer

01:25:32

The End of America First?

Brad Griffin joins Richard Spencer for a discussion of the impeachment of Trump, the future of backlash politics within the GOP, and the strange story of Nicholas Fuentes, "America First," and "Stop the Steal." N.B.: This podcast was recorded before Trump avoided conviction in the Senate. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit radixjournal.substack.com/subscribe

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	So, Brad, I thought we could talk about the various internecine, backbiting movement feuds.
	He said, she said, bitch slaps all around.
	But I would like to actually talk about the bigger picture and not simply engage in a soap opera, because I think there actually is a bigger picture here.
	I generally don't care.
	About most rumors I hear.
	If anything, I'm shocked that people are actually interested.
	He's impeached again, and we've been watching the conviction trial in the Senate, where he is unlikely to be removed from office or prevented from running again.
	But I do think it's a possibility, actually.
	First off, the first day of the defense presentations was a catastrophe.
	That shown was very unimpressive.
	And the caster guy was just a complete disaster.
	And I don't know, I guess I'll dilate on this just a little bit.
	But this guy, he was thinking out loud, which is okay on a podcast, but...
	Really bad in a court of law or an impeachment hearing.
	And he was also just had these like half-baked notions from like his history professor in high school that he was regurgitating.
	But it was like, well, Greece had a Senate.
	And then when they lost free speech, they lost the Senate.
	And I was just like, oh, my God.
	I didn't even.
	It's like a combination of.
	It's a combination of being like historically inaccurate plus like liberal Whig history all baked in like a half-baked cake and it's just like, oh my god.
	Get this stuff out of here.
	No one was buying it.
	I thought at that point I was like, oh, wow, he has, you know, due to Trump's notoriety or what have you, he can't find a competent attorney and this is going to be a disaster.
	And then the next two days of the presentations by the impeachment managers, I actually listened to a lot of them.
	I thought that was actually extremely effective.
	You know, they laid out a lot of detail as, you know, they put video together.
	And again, Trump's defense is claiming that this was kind of mashed together, you know, unethically, you could say.
	I think they were kind of nitpicking, to be honest.
	I mean, whenever you cut a video of any kind, you're obviously going to...
	You know, make an argument with your editing.
	So I think that they're kind of grasping at straws.
	But I thought it was very effective.
	And I just really felt the momentum going there.
	I listened to...
	I had a bit of time today, so I listened to a lot of the defense.
	And I thought they were doing a much better job.
	I think they got their act together.
	And for whatever was happening behind the scenes, they got it together.
	So I think they actually were at least competent today.
	But, you know, we'll see by certainly over the weekend.
	I don't know exactly when they're going to hold the vote, but I presume we'll know by Monday.
	I just think there's a very strong chance.
	And I don't know.
	I guess the other thing about my...
	It's my general feeling on January 6th.
	And I apologize.
	My essay on this is like...
	I'm going to have to cut it to get it under like...
	20,000 words.
	It's really big.
	I'm actually very serious about this, but I've hit this point in my career where I'm like, I will never blog again.
	Everything is book-ready.
	But anyway, one of the things I'm saying is that there are these concentric circles where, no, I don't think that Donald Trump...
	Went out to the crowd on January 6th and desired that a mob with a man dressed like Davy Crockett enter the Capitol and so on.
	And that he was hoping that Baked Alaska would livestream it all.
	I obviously don't think that.
	So I think there's, you know, it's not like totally cut.
	We thought it was going to be, I mean, we know what the plan was.
	They were going to have some kind of...
	Alex was going to lead the march down to the Capitol.
	And Trump was going to be arm in arm, in his words.
	Yeah, and the plan was that Alex had rented this huge stage or something that was all set up outside the Capitol.
	And they were all supposed to gather there outside the Capitol and have some more speeches and do the performance art thing in order to pressure all the Republicans inside to somehow Yeah, but see, this is my point in a way, is that even that, even that, which is obviously more defensible than...
	You know, breaking into, like, the I'm with Graper girl, Riley, like, breaking into someone's office and at least allegedly stealing a computer, although I think she might not have done that.
	But anyway, that's obviously just patently illegal.
	But even what Trump was attempting was borderline sedition, according to U.S. code, is the problem, is that you are, I mean, yes, you can protest, but, like, They were trying to delay this thing.
	Multiple phone calls with Tupperville and so on.
	They were trying to delay the certification.
	Then when Trump...
	Let's say that all things went well.
	Trump and company go out and they basically say, we are the party.
	Stop the vote.
	Don't certify any of this.
	I'm staying in.
	This is, again, more defensible but pretty much sedition.
	And the way I see it is there are these concentric circles where...
	You have, like, the Trump plan, but in order to enact that, he needs bodies on the ground.
	He needs boots on the ground.
	And so you link up with all the kind of loons of various stripes.
	But I think they're actually, I think the person who went into the Capitol with zip ties, I mean, why were you carrying zip ties?
	I heard a zip ties guy found the zip ties in there, that he didn't take it inside.
	The zip ties were apparently, In the Capitol.
	I don't know if that's...
	I'll let you continue, but that's what I heard.
	Okay.
	Well, okay.
	But, you know, we have also, you know, there was big talk about going inside the Capitol, as you know, on Baked Alassa's stream.
	There's big talk among the Proud Boys.
	It's being revealed.
	Yeah, I mean, yeah, there was two different things here.
	There was the plan, which was to hold this big grandstanding performance art thing outside of the Capitol.
	And then there were all these key targets who were all worked up who actually believed the shit was real and had a mind of their own.
	Genuinely believed it was real.
	Yeah, that's like Ashley Babbitt.
	Ashley Babbitt being a classic example of someone who actually literally thought that it was the storm that day.
	I mean, these people were so wrapped up.
	I mean, even past the capital siege down to Joe Biden's inauguration, I mean, they were saying like it was...
	A deepfake hologram.
	It's not real.
	All this stuff on television is an illusion.
	Vox Day was saying that right down until January 20th.
	Right down to today.
	I think there's some kind of variation of the conspiracy where Trump is going to be re-inaugurated in March.
	I don't know.
	I don't keep up with it.
	So, yeah, so like I said, like, the plan was, the actual Trump's actual, this is my take on it, is that they were trying to pressure these Republicans who were wavering in order to, you know, block the vote or something, right?
	Yes.
	And they were supposed to have some kind of big grandstanding, huge rally of patriots outside the Capitol.
	That was the plan, right?
	But as you know, these real-world events, people come to the events with their own agenda, right?
	A considerable number of people, as it turns out, literally believed all this stuff about the storm and QAnon.
	They literally believed this shit.
	It's insane.
	I've heard stories of apparently my sister-in-law's neighbor is one of these people.
	And it's just absolutely convinced.
	It was literally called my sister-in-law and was like, all this stuff you're seeing on television isn't real.
	It's all a hologram.
	And I mean, I heard this story from somebody in real life.
	And this is in an upper-middle-class neighborhood.
	This is something that's kind of been… Oh, yeah.
	Marjorie Taylor Greene?
	Yeah, this is something that's been kind of downplayed here.
	Yeah, this is one thing I think the Democrats are making a mistake on, is that if you look at who believes this Q shit, right?
	It's not like a class thing.
	It's not dumb rednecks out there.
	It comes from all different groups.
	It's postgrads, it's college graduates, it's working class people.
	And there are layers of it.
	Because I think in a way, the entire right was a shade of QAnon.
	I would even go back earlier than November.
	Once the riots started to die down, let's say September of 2020 up through January 20th, the entire American right were various shades of QAnon.
	Keep in mind some other things.
	All of these...
	I mean, I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so I kind of grew up at the time of Robert Tilton and, you know, Jimmy Swagger and all these just, you know, caricatures of slimy lying.
	Religious, you know, con artists and nuts and so on.
	There's just a new wave of that.
	I mean, that kind of thing has gotten a new leg.
	It's a faith-based thing.
	Yeah, and remember...
	It's been transferred from evangelicals to this shit.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And it's kind of dumped a lot of things in a way.
	It's dumped a lot of hot button issues that used to be important, and it's kind of been reduced to just Trump.
	And, but this was popular.
	I mean, remember, you know, if, when I was on YouTube, and I would get like 25,000 views, I would be like, ah, that's great.
	You know, we, this one, you know, I reached a good audience here with my content, my heady content.
	These guys, these televangelists, they're like, they're doing videos of 450,000 views.
	Like, they're, they are huge.
	It is a huge thing.
	It has no effect on the mindset of people outside of those communities because people are just kind of embarrassed by it.
	They don't want to talk about it.
	They just find it food for gullible fools.
	But it is a huge market, and it was basically QAnon, even if they weren't quite QAnon.
	Just to finish it real quick, there was this time in 2018 when QAnon obviously started on 4chan and then kind of migrated to 8chan, then 8kun, and it's this Watkins guy and all these crazy, you know, digitally literate incels on the chans doing Q and whatever.
	By 2018, they were going out into the world, and Watkins himself, who was, you know, Mr. 4chan, Mr. 8chan, was promoting this, and they were kind of explicitly saying, let's win over the boomers.
	Like, let's bring this crazy Chan culture and translate it into the boomers, and it caught, like, wildfire to the point that QAnon kind of...
	It entered a world beyond the Chans.
	I don't even think the Chans defined it.
	At the end, and maybe even in the middle.
	It was about, like, boomers doing their own Q shit on Facebook and passing it around and getting retweeted by John Hannity or Rosie, not Rosie O'Donnell, the other one, Rose Enbar.
	You know, like, just, it was just, or Jon Voight, like, kind of quoting Q and some weird message about, like...
	Demons, Satan, the Democrat, the demon rats.
	It was this huge thing that just caught wildfire, became massively huge, to the point that the American right was just part of it.
	And even, I mean, to kind of bring the Amnats and Nick Fuentes, et cetera, and company into this conversation, they weren't cute.
	I mean, again, I certainly have only...
	You know, imbibed 1% at most of Fuentes' content and less than that of his, you know, associates.
	But they were not QAnon from what I can tell, but there really wasn't any discernible difference.
	It was like, you know, they had to go along with it and they were rewarded for going along with it.
	They kept getting more and more money, more and more super chats.
	Big donations out of nowhere.
	More popularity, more of a threat to the system.
	You just keep building it up.
	They couldn't get off that rollercoaster even if they wanted to at some point.
	Did it seem that Nick picked up an older demographic after 2018 as he grew and grew?
	Probably much like QAnon itself.
	We'll get to my take on Nick and America First.
	I've told you before, it was a personality cult wrapped within Trump's larger personality cult.
	And it was always a transparent grift.
	And he was telling me it was kind of like QAnon for Zoomers.
	It was QAnon marketed.
	Because you'd keep hearing that he could trust the plan.
	You know, if you're not like...
	I mean, he...
	You know, it was literally a cult.
	I mean, this is especially obvious in the last...
	He would use the catchwords of QAnon, but maybe not...
	Yeah, trust the plan.
	Not the philosophy of it, but basically, structurally identical.
	Yeah, he threw people out of America first.
	And out of his cult, there was this guy, Puma is one, and there's Adi, and a few other, Panther Dan, and there's a few other of these guys.
	I know who they are.
	And, I mean, they would cast people out of the America First cult.
	But anyway, we're going to get into Fuentes, but let me back up to impeachment before I forget.
	Okay, well...
	Well, a few things.
	This is the second impeachment trial, right?
	And the first one was over the Ukraine nonsense, which we haven't heard of again.
	Although there was something there with Rudy Giuliani and all these shady people.
	I didn't pay any attention to it because it's like, okay, I don't care.
	Seems like a waste.
	Yeah, they impeached him.
	The Democrats impeached him in the House.
	They're not going to convict him in the Senate.
	It's performance art.
	It's a waste of time.
	So I didn't even really watch it, right?
	Me too.
	I was checked out.
	It was one of those things.
	I was interested in it.
	I think I did a couple live streams where I was like, this is interesting because it kind of touches on bigger geopolitical issues like Ukraine and Russia.
	And those things don't come out of nowhere.
	It's not like they're claiming that there was...
	You know, Indonesian interference, even though there, who knows, there might have been like, you know, Indonesians buying Facebook ads or whatever.
	But what I'm saying is that it was Russia for a reason and it was Ukraine for a reason.
	And so the only interest I had in it was that it kind of expresses the deep state.
	And I'll use that word unironically.
	The deep state's kind of view of the world that these are actually, these are the friend-enemy distinctions that actually matter.
	So that's the only interest.
	But yeah, in terms of, like, impeaching this guy over this, and not ever holding, like, I mean, I don't know, sounding like an anti-war libertarian.
	But, like, why not just, like, I don't want a FedPost here.
	Why don't you go and convict George W. Bush, not that he did something illegal, but that he just, like...
	We killed people, wasted our lives, blew all this money, you know, killed hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq, thousands of Americans in the Middle East, you know, as a tertiary concern.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Why don't we have a goddamn trial of these people, these people who lied?
	Yeah, but go ahead.
	I don't want to get us off track.
	So, so, so, so, capital siege, me and you that morning, both, you know, We're watching this, and we assume, okay, nothing's going to happen.
	They're going to have another one of the stupid stop the steal rallies in D.C., and they were going to have this big rally outside the Capitol, and they're going to try to put pressure on the Republican senators, and you knew that Pence and the Republican senators were going to certify the vote anyway, and it was all just political theater and performance art and a waste of time, so I wasn't watching it.
	Until, like, you know, I heard that, you know, they were literally storming the Capitol.
	Then I turned it on, right?
	Because I had dismissed it.
	I had dismissed it.
	It's like, okay, this is just more political theater.
	I'm not wasting this.
	Just like the Russia hoax, I'm not going to waste my brain cells on this, right?
	So now we get up to the current impeachment trial.
	This is impeachment trial two, right?
	And the thing is that they impeached him the first time over this Ukraine stuff, right?
	And so now they're impeaching him a second time over this.
	And the thing is that no one's watching this.
	No one is watching this.
	Since Trump has left office, CNN's ratings have collapsed.
	MSNBC's ratings have collapsed.
	I mean, just fallen through the floor.
	No one is watching this, right?
	I guess people are still watching on MSNBC and CNN, but no one is...
	As soon as Joe Biden was sworn in, interest in politics just plummeted on the left.
	They're checking out.
	They're checking out.
	They're going to sleep.
	Just like what happened with...
	Trump.
	Joe's got this.
	Who cares?
	We're not watching it.
	But the opposite is true.
	Trump voters are screaming, wad awake, angry, and mad.
	This is exactly what we said would happen, right?
	That once the Democrats got in power...
	They would try to, like, maintain all the hysteria, but, like, the ordinary Democrat, with Trump being gone, is not, like, he's going to just check out, right?
	Yeah.
	The Republicans are all, like, you know, wide awake and furious and angry now.
	So, like, they had the impeachment vote in the House.
	And I forget how many Republicans voted for.
	I think it was, like, a dozen or so.
	Liz Cheney was the main one, Dick Cheney's daughter.
	And so she has just been absolutely killed.
	Killed is getting killed in the polls for voting.
	I guess she thought – see, here's the thing, right?
	A lot of these Republican establishment types thought that, you know, Trump, this is the end of Trump, right?
	He's been discredited.
	We're going to take the party back.
	Oh, no.
	Quite the opposite.
	Quite the opposite.
	First of all, Like, you know how we've talked, you've written about this at length about the Wexit thing, right?
	Yeah.
	About all these suburban, upper-middle-class white professionals leaving their public.
	It's a long-term trend that's been going on since, for a long time now, for 10, 15 years, right?
	And if you look at 2016, that was a big step in that direction.
	Then the 2018 midterms was another step in that direction.
	Then 2020 was another step in that direction.
	And now after the capital siege, you've got thousands of more of these people leaving the Republican Party.
	So what's happened is that Trump voters are absolutely furious.
	And the establishment, the demographic base of the Republican establishment, the true cons, you know who I'm talking about?
	Yes, of course.
	Sure you do.
	Sure you do.
	The legal projects, yes.
	The kind of Lincoln Project types who live in the suburbs.
	Donald Trump is the worst thing that's ever happened on the face of...
	We need to bring back good old conservatism.
	Like 2006.
	All principles, right?
	So here's the shot.
	That's what Mike Enoch would say.
	Here's the shot, right?
	Those people have left the Republican Party.
	So what's happened is...
	And especially with the 2020 election, more of these working class voters have come in, right?
	So the reality is, is that the demographic base that's underneath people like Liz Cheney, or like Ben Sasse, is gone.
	The problem is, though.
	It's shrinking.
	It's shrinking.
	I agree with you.
	I agree with you, and I know where you're going with this, and it is kind of part of my wegzit.
	But the other half of my Wexit theory is that liberalism can maintain itself as a coherent managerial ruling ideology.
	And the problem is that they're going to win.
	And all of this stuff, there's a kind of pincer movement going on here because Trump has also vanished from the scene.
	I don't know the last time he was on television.
	And he's not on social media.
	He is...
	His brand is...
	Relaxing.
	Well, he's probably relaxing, sure.
	But his brand is like...
	It was in the fine wine section and now it's in the dog food section.
	And it might be in the dog shit section if such a section were featured in our grocery stores pretty soon.
	And those people who are now like feel empowered or maybe desperate, That is a really small part of the base.
	And if they think that they can win with Marjorie Taylor Greene, like win any kind of national election, they are dreaming.
	Because as they get into the party and they start asserting themselves, the greater the Wexit becomes.
	And it just becomes untenable.
	No, this is great.
	This is absolutely fantastic.
	Let me explain why.
	Let me explain why.
	Okay, so like, the way things have been for the last, I guess, going back to the Reagan era, right?
	Okay, the base of Reaganism, right, were all these suburbanites, these baby boomer, sunbelt suburbanites in the West and the South.
	Right?
	Right.
	And as those people have died off, well, I mean, a lot of them are just dying, straight out dying off.
	So the average national review person who reads national review is in their 70s.
	So you got a demographic die-off of these people going on, number one.
	You got a lot of these people like, I mean, this is a huge thing, okay?
	I mean, This is something we haven't really focused on.
	I mean, a lot of the people you see on television, like, you know, they're kind of like on the opposite side of things, right?
	Like, I mean, we remember Bill Kristol being like, neocon, chief, Republican type, you know, now he's like, and a lot of all these bushy crowds are like on MSNBC, Lincoln Project.
	They're Democrats now.
	They're Democrats.
	They've moved.
	So what's happened to it, so for like, for 50 years, right, if you think about it, The way the parties worked is that the governing wing of the Democrats were these white professional types.
	And then on the Republican side, you had these, I guess you'd say, the small business owners.
	Also professionals, also managers, suburbanites.
	And so what happened was that...
	Really, the suburbanites controlled both parties.
	But because of this Wexit thing and the changing demographics within the Republican Party, the professional types, the managerial types, the suburbanites, the wealthy people are concentrating in the Democrats, right?
	And that wing of the Republican Party, the wing that's traditionally governed it, It's just getting thinner and thinner and thinner on the ground.
	Now, what happened with Trump stunned everyone.
	And the reason that happened, the reason Trump was able to break through in 2016 is because of this loss of suburbanites that's going to the Democrats.
	The Republican electorate was becoming more working class.
	It was becoming less suburban.
	This is the trend by education.
	College-educated whites, suburban whites, concentrating on the Democrats.
	And working-class voters are coming over to the Republicans.
	Now, the way this is – what's happened since – this is interesting.
	I need to spend some more time on this.
	But what's happened since Trump lost the – have you seen these polls that come out?
	Because I've been looking at the polls.
	First of all, impeachment is not going – the conviction is not going anywhere.
	Like I've seen polls that say – A majority of the population wants to convict him.
	Close to 60%.
	Yeah, but 85% of Republican voters are like, I will not vote.
	They'll stay in the polls.
	Oh, I agree.
	I mean, Trump had a 90% approval rating.
	Yeah, no, but 85% of Republicans, 85% of, I mean, you've got to think, these people who are jurors are elected Republican senators.
	And they're looking at polls which say...
	If you vote to convict Trump, 85% of your base is going to throw you out of office, right?
	Right, and elect Marjorie Taylor Greene.
	Yeah, but yeah, people – the Marjorie Taylor Greene thing is, I think, overdone because this is the strategy of the Democrats to inflate QAnon because what the Democrats want is they want to hold on to all these suburbanites that have come over to – The Democrats.
	You can see the problems.
	Number one, COVID is going to be gone.
	Number two, Trump is going to be gone.
	Is QAnon going to be a biggest thing two years from now?
	I see what you're arguing.
	I'm glad we're having this discussion because we have a disagreement and it's good to flesh it out.
	First off, there's no truth to the rumors that you have joined Marjorie Taylor Greene's CrossFit.
	There's no truth to this.
	Oh, I heard she was having sex with...
	Oh, come on.
	This is...
	Jokes aside...
	Look, I see where you're going, and I agree with you.
	COVID, we see the light at the end of the tunnel, and I don't think it's an oncoming train.
	Hospitalizations are going down, the vaccine's being rolled out.
	This will end.
	This nightmare will end.
	And that was decisive in Trump not winning again, I totally think.
	But that's going to pass.
	And so they need something.
	So they're pumping up Marjorie Taylor Greene.
	And then you're also arguing that QAnon, just by the very nature of these...
	You know, horrible predictions that it's made just has to go away because it just cannot have plausibility.
	Like, you can't just endlessly claim that the Chiefs are going to win the Super Bowl, you know, like three weeks later.
	I mean, but I see where you're going with this.
	The only problem is some other QAnon thing will come about.
	This wasn't just some aberration.
	And it's going to be just as wacky.
	And the people who are, at least at this moment, kind of defining the party are going to turn off huge amounts of people by their very nature.
	And that radical Trump supporting base is not a majority.
	Like almost 60 percent, according to one poll, almost 60 percent of the nation wants a conviction of Trump.
	They've had it.
	And then the other thing, Trump's magic, You know, started to fade a bit in 2018.
	I think people might even underestimate that because that was the first like loss where, you know, we were all saying, you know, we all thought like, oh, he just can't lose.
	I mean, it was like 2016, the Chicago Cubs win the World Series and Trump wins.
	He's invincible.
	Well, 2018, that rubbed some of that off.
	And then...
	You know, I think the guy's brand is going down.
	I do not think he's going to be a force.
	And he's already, I mean, just to add a little complication to this, a little twist, the other weird thing about Trump is that those people, the Marjorie Taylor Greene type or the QAnon wing of the Republican Party, they didn't always listen to him.
	They, in Alabama.
	They did not listen to Trump's recommendation for Senate.
	They did with Tuberville against Sessions, but they didn't earlier with Doug Jones defeating a man whose name I'm forgetting at the moment.
	Madison Cawthorn, you have all these ways where the Trump population has a mind of its own, and it's going to elect its own.
	And its own are really unpalatable to the clear majority of the population.
	I don't think so.
	Let me tell you why.
	First of all, it's true that the suburbanites have been moving over, but that's actually a great thing.
	If the free marketer, Larry Kudlow, Lincoln Project types...
	Continue to shuffle over to the Democrats.
	The conservative establishment and the Republican establishment, they don't have anything below them.
	The populist wing of the Republican Party and the paleocon wing is the overwhelming majority now because of the way the electorate is resorting.
	All these awful ideas, all these Awful libertarian-ish ideas that have been such, you know, all this Reaganite stuff that's just dominated the Republican Party forever is going away with its voters.
	Maybe not yet.
	Not yet, but the Democrats, see, people are so focused on Trump, they're not looking at the voters, right?
	The voters have changed.
	Demographics, the voters have changed.
	As these suburbanites leave, their brand of...
	Reaganite conservatism is dead.
	There's no plausible reason to...
	This is actually a good thing.
	Because you also see at the same time this is going on, at the same time you're seeing these huge majorities coming out for things like $2,000 stimulus checks.
	All these working class Trump voters are starting to support wealth redistribution.
	That's a new thing.
	And the Democratic Party is much more plausible as a vehicle for that.
	I agree with you.
	I just disagree with your conclusion.
	Why would that be?
	You've got to think.
	If the true cons wings of the GOP goes over to the Democrats, they're going to start pushing for tax cuts.
	I mean, you've got the Chamber of Commerce.
	Literally, the Chamber of Commerce is supporting the Democrats now.
	And so all that stuff.
	All that stuff is going to be – you can already see it happening.
	There's going to be an agitation for – they're already talking about this, how they can't afford to do all this stuff because it will alienate the suburbanites.
	And what's going to happen is that the Republicans have a free hand to change their economic platform now.
	So they can – Why not?
	I mean, you saw Mitt Romney came out and says, Mitt Romney, of all people, has been reprogrammed.
	And suddenly Mitt Romney wants to give checks of like $350 a month mailed through the Social Security Administration.
	That's because the voters have changed, right?
	So, like, what's really happening here is the dominant wing in the GOP for, since 50 years, You make a good case.
	You make a good case.
	Obviously, we'll see.
	This is just my sense of it.
	First off, I'm glad you mentioned Romney.
	I think Romney, in his way, proved the just total uselessness of this Trumpian wing.
	Because Romney put forward a policy which could very well pass, which seems good.
	It's kind of populist in its way, because it's kind of based on families.
	It also has a bit of that old Republican family values air to it.
	And it's plausible.
	And Trump never did anything like this, even though he clearly had an opportunity to, while in office and in control of both houses of Congress, or his party was at least.
	I think it just proves the total uselessness of this.
	You see Romney as catering to that part of the base.
	Okay, I get it.
	I think he's kind of mediating it, kind of transcending it.
	But the problem is, those people...
	Like, Romney is actually a very intelligent and reasonable guy.
	He's a kind of guy, like, everyone hates on him, whatever.
	Who would you rather have dinner with, Mitt Romney or Marjorie Taylor Greene?
	I mean, you know, I'm sorry I'm blowing her up out of proportion, maybe in your mind, fair enough, but you get my point.
	Romney, someone like Romney might be able to crack this nut.
	But at the end of the day, the party of, Policy wonkery and ideas and intellectuals and blah, blah, blah is going to be the left.
	They are going to have more plausibility in saying, we're going to implement $2,000 COVID checks, which I almost think we're never going to see that shit.
	But anyway, they're more plausible in implementing that.
	They are more plausible in implementing UBI or things like that.
	I think Romney could crack the nut.
	But the future of Trumpian politics is like...
	ranting about socialism and, you know, like just focusing on all of these just weird culture war issues.
	And I think it is an absolute loser.
	Yeah, well, yeah, we'll see because I think you actually make a good case.
	And I, you know, I've made my case.
	So yeah, this is the Rubicon where they are.
	Here's what I think.
	I mean, I mean, if you if you look at if you look at the way the electorate has been resorting where it's going, is that.
	Okay, all the college-educated, wealthy suburbanites are all flooding into Democrats, right?
	And the Trucon's libertarian-ish wing that has dominated Republican economic policy for 50 years is collapsing.
	So, like, this is one of my predictions I made two years ago, that because it's changing demographics, because of the way white working-class voters were coming into the Republicans, and suburbanites were leaving, And because of the political correctness, that Conservatism Inc.
	would fall on its face.
	Because the voters, the physical, not because Trump is gone, but because the physical voters who support that are Democrats now.
	And so, like, if you did, if those people are gone, let's suppose those people are gone and continue shuffling off the Democrats.
	Well, if you got this huge number of the...
	Trumpian-based is white working class voters.
	Well, why don't you just have an economic policy that is actually economically populous?
	You're making too much sense.
	That's why it's not going to happen.
	That way, I mean, but if all these Republican voters support wealth redistribution...
	Why couldn't – okay, look what happened.
	Because they don't – because they support some weird nonsense that's going to come out of nowhere next.
	And I think the Democrats would beat them to the punch.
	Yeah.
	They're just more plausible.
	No, I think – what I think is going to happen is that you have this huge class divide between Democrats, which you have the white urban professional.
	The wing of the party is dominating everything.
	They're doing woke stuff, they're doing trans stuff, they're doing climate stuff, they're doing open border stuff.
	I mean, it was already obvious that they were starting to...
	I mean, when they went out and they did all the riots and stuff last year, they drove huge numbers of Hispanic voters out of the party.
	Like, that was a real thing.
	Not just along the border, but, like, all across the country.
	Because...
	It turns out that Hispanics aren't motivated by immigration policy.
	I was looking at these polls.
	It's like their 11th, 12th issue.
	But if the GOP changed its positions on, say, more wealth redistributionists, change on healthcare because you don't have those fiscal conservative voters anymore that they've gone, they could attract...
	A lot more working-class voters who just aren't voting.
	So what's going to happen, I think, is that just as Trump ran in 2016 and brought over...
	The reason Trump became president is because he tapped into all these disaffected right-wing populist voters.
	You could have a candidate who's going to run to the left of Trump on economics and could win over MAGA voters because they support the same thing.
	Like, if you look at the polls, Something like 95% of MAGA voters say that the economic system is rigged to favor the rich and powerful.
	And the same is true of 99%… That's a Tucker Carlson talking point.
	No, it's totally real.
	I get that.
	They feel the pain.
	The pain's real.
	But it's a Tucker Carlson talking point, and I think we should move on.
	I will… Give you the last word.
	And I acknowledge that you make a good case.
	We both acknowledge that we'll see.
	But I think I'm going to be right.
	So you're going to be disappointed, man, for Huey Long GOP 2024.
	I'm totally calling it now.
	People laugh.
	People laugh.
	But I'm telling you, the left-wing populace will come over to the GOP in the next four years.
	It's going to happen.
	Okay.
	That's what's going to happen.
	That's the next thing.
	Go ahead.
	It's on the record, and I respect your boldness.
	But, okay, so let's talk about the Fuentes thing.
	So, all right, so Nick Fuentes...
	Emerged in 2017.
	Just a quick rundown to get our minds rolling on this issue.
	So Nick Fuentes kind of emerged in 2017.
	He was very young.
	I think he was still a teenager at that point.
	And he was this college Republican type.
	And as you pointed out many times, he was a former Cruz supporter and whatever.
	And he kind of got red-pilled or whatever.
	I think he also kind of saw the alt-right as what is hot.
	And he wanted to go to what is hot.
	And he went to Charlottesville, did all this kind of stuff.
	I thought it was, at the time, I thought it was kind of an interesting and...
	You know, maybe kind of optimism, optimistic development.
	But he really had a very, very strong knack of getting on our nerves, let's say.
	And I don't, it's not really, I don't really feel like bashing him at the moment.
	So let's just leave it at that.
	But they, after Charlottesville, because, you know, I think these things might have actually happened anyway, to be honest.
	But Charlottesville was clearly a turning point.
	And after Charlottesville, they started to create this meme that was very powerful.
	And it spread and reproduced itself in all sorts of ways.
	And what they were basically saying was...
	Don't be independent, kind of edgy, Spencerian, Nietzschean, you know, we're going against Trump, we're going against the world, whatever.
	All that's going to do is isolate you and blah, blah, blah.
	And they kind of put a face on that as not me, but as the wignat, like the 90s skinhead, you know, whatever.
	And their meme was that, stay with us, and we are winning within the party.
	Like, we're getting, you know, Paul Nealon's running for Congress.
	Lauren Witzka's running for Congress.
	You know, we're winning.
	And Trump, even if he's imperfect and he has these things that we can criticize around the edges, he is the force of nationalism.
	Let's stick with it.
	Everything's moving in our direction.
	And if you kind of, like...
	Don't be like either Spencer or don't be like Brad Griffin or don't be like, you know, 90s skinhead or whatever.
	Then we'll win.
	Then we'll enter the GOP.
	They'll need us.
	They'll bring us in maybe.
	But we'll take power in some kind of vaguely defined way.
	And this is it.
	And that meme, and here I think the meme term is actually quite good.
	It spread and reproduced itself much more than a Spencer meme of, you know, our...
	We have our sights set on bigger things.
	Like, we need to stay true to our principles and ourselves.
	And we need to, you know, this kind of dreamy stuff was not as effective as the Fuentes stuff.
	And, you know, as 2020 rolled around...
	Fuentes was getting thousands of people on live streams.
	Maybe there were a lot of Zoomers.
	Maybe they were more boomers.
	Who knows?
	But even though he's getting kicked off YouTube, etc., he was gaining a huge amount of traction.
	They kind of got some mainstream media reports done on them in 2019 with the Groeper roar, etc.
	And it got to this point, though, and I think that's, and it's this weird place where they ended up where there wasn't really a lot of distance between Nick Fuentes and Amnas and, say, The conspiracy land world of Alex Jones or Ali Alexander, who they were all friends with, or even just the mainstream GOP and QAnon.
	There wasn't a lot of distance separating these people.
	And when you listen to them now, they'll say like...
	You know, in the future, and even Patrick Casey was saying this, like, in the future, we'll have, like, limited immigration, you know, immigration is limited now, by the way, but we'll have limited immigration and voter fraud stuff, and we'll stop the shutdowns, you know, and it's like, all right, the shutdowns are going to stop.
	I mean, they're not even that, they're not in full force now.
	Like, you're going to weirdly get what you want, but this whole kind of proves that There's no daylight.
	So you are really just racist for the GOP.
	You don't have a lot of plausibility, actually, in infiltrating the GOP, but you are channeling.
	You have a lot of plausibility channeling.
	Racist and nationalist, et cetera, into the GOP, just maintaining that pipeline, which has actually existed for a long time.
	And it's something that we haven't really talked about critically, and I think we should have.
	But they had a lot of plausibility like that, and they were getting wild success.
	And, you know, Nick obviously made some big errors, but, you know, I'm here to praise him in a weird way and not bury him because...
	I think he's going to be buried by the feds.
	But when you are listening to your fans and playing to your fan base, they're going to make you say a lot of shit.
	And I am actually guilty of this as well.
	I kind of understand the instinct where you want to...
	You want to play like the opera singer wants to sing to that person in the last row.
	It's like you want to play to that super bass guy in the chat.
	You want to please him.
	And when you start doing that, you're going to end up going on a live stream and saying something like, well, what do we do with these Democrats?
	I don't know.
	Shoot them?
	Well, we shouldn't do that.
	I'm just being ironic in Minecraft.
	You'll start to do that.
	And I know it because I actually, I know the temptation, and I've seen the temptation in others, and I've seen it in myself as well, to be critical.
	And it's actually a bad temptation.
	And if you live off, if you're monetized via...
	Super chats.
	And you are playing to that audience and reflecting the audience, as opposed to leading your audience or challenging your audience, which I hope I do at my best.
	You're playing to your audience.
	They're going to drag you down to their place.
	And I think that is where Nick got dragged.
	I just listened to about 30 minutes before we went on air of Nick on the kill stream kind of talking about the Patrick Casey situation.
	And Nick is an intelligent guy.
	Nick, you know, he's quick on his feet.
	Who's in the right here?
	I think, actually, I don't think Pat even saved himself from litigation.
	Or prosecution, rather.
	He's already been stuck into it, yeah.
	Yeah, but because he's basically admitting that they call each other generals and all this kind of nonsense, like these griper generals.
	The lieutenants were saying this, and the soldiers were saying this.
	So they're all deeply connected to each other.
	But no, I have a certain...
	Because I think Nick is going to get buried by this, I have a certain sympathy for him.
	These guys blocked me.
	These guys denounced me years ago.
	I have nothing to do with them, so I can speak freely.
	I have a certain bit of sympathy for him, because I think also, as he was gaining this fame, which he undoubtedly did, it was a weird kind of fame.
	It wasn't my kind of fame, which was, you know, be...
	You know, Mr. Intellectual, and you go talk to the press, and they all get their panties in a bunch and freak out, and you kind of be outlandish and arrogant and all that kind of stuff.
	It was a different type of thing.
	It was much more organic.
	It was playing to his audience, reflecting his audience.
	He was tapping into something, definitely.
	Yeah, and he couldn't stop.
	He was on...
	He thought that he was leading an army, but in fact, he was on a seat in a roller coaster, and it was headed down a track.
	There is no choice for him but to continue the stop the steal lie and to push it even further and to say, you know, what did he say on camera?
	You know, he said something to this effect.
	We've taken the Capitol.
	We're not leaving until Trump is...
	Inaugurated president.
	I mean, he said something to that effect.
	That is sedition.
	But that is part of the logic of your crowd that you're reflecting.
	And the logic of Trump himself.
	And he just couldn't.
	He thought he was the leader.
	In fact, he was sitting on a roller coaster.
	And it was one of those nightmare roller coasters.
	Where like the other half of the track, it's like it flies off.
	It's like Indian Temple of Doom rollercoaster where you're going to fly into a lava pit.
	But he was on a track and he couldn't get off it.
	And I do think, I don't know the truth of everything Patrick said.
	I think it's probably somewhere in the middle.
	Patrick Casey said his bank accounts have been seized.
	He's under FBI investigation.
	He's on a no-fly list.
	Which we knew from day one.
	It might very well be true.
	I simply don't know.
	Nick kind of denied it, but said there was a kernel of truth to it, so that kind of seems like it's kind of real.
	I think he is still on a track that will end in federal prosecution because this is, according to the FBI itself, this is the biggest thing they have ever done.
	They take this extremely seriously.
	Maybe that's unfair.
	Maybe they should have gone after BLM.
	Okay, fine.
	They didn't.
	And they're doing this to these people.
	And I didn't think that the MNAT thing would go very far because it didn't strike me as having a lot of good people.
	I acknowledge Nick Fuentes' I really don't like him.
	He rubs me the wrong way endlessly.
	But I acknowledge his talents.
	But I just thought all these people, they're just not plausible.
	They're not impressive.
	This is not interesting.
	You're turning off intellectuals.
	You're turning off...
	Unnecessarily divisive, right?
	Yeah, and absolutely they engaged in endless infighting.
	Patrick, you know, first and foremost among them.
	I mean, they just sucked.
	I mean, okay.
	But I never thought it would end in scale.
	I never thought it would end this spectacularly.
	Let's say that.
	Trump was a cult.
	I mean, it's obvious in hindsight.
	I mean, people laugh at it now, the trust the plan stuff.
	Yeah, it was a cult.
	It was encouraging in place.
	It was absolute cult.
	Surrounded himself by loyal lackeys.
	It was an absolute cult.
	And then Nick mirrored Trump's cultism within his own thing and was kind of creating a mini-cult within the larger cult.
	Okay?
	And here's what's kind of interesting.
	Like I said, I'm not going to attack Nick.
	I'm not going to attack Pat.
	I'm not going to attack Baked.
	I draw the line at, number one, losing internet platforms, and number two, when it crosses over into real life.
	Like, someone's going to go to prison for 20 years, 30 years, get sued into oblivion.
	I don't even wish that on them, right?
	Whatever disagreements and beasts I have with them on the internet.
	Well, it doesn't matter what our opinions are on this matter.
	All we can do is analyze it, you know, and try to...
	It was an internet beef.
	It was an internet beef.
	We told them not to trust Trump.
	We told them, how many times have we told them that?
	For years, right?
	For years.
	And sure enough, at the end of the day, as Trump's last act as president, he pardoned, what, Lil Wayne, Kodak Black, the mayor of Detroit, and left all these guys, like, baked in the lurch, left Nick.
	And even though Nick is holding the bag, he's still, like, part of this.
	This cult.
	All right, now, so here's the tragedy of it.
	Going back to what I was briefly seeking back to my point about this evolution of Trumpism.
	I don't know if you saw this poll that came out, but there was this poll that was conducted by, I think his name's Henry Olson.
	I think it was stringed on the American Enterprise Institute website, right?
	It was this poll of where Trump voters are at.
	You know, in the wake of the capital siege after Trump's gone.
	And according to the poll, can you believe this?
	64% of Trump voters now say that their race is extremely important to their sense of identity.
	That just blew me away.
	So, like, the question was, is your race, how important is your race to your identity?
	And is it very important, extremely important?
	Someone important, not really important, not important at all.
	And the overwhelming majority, that 64%, said it was extremely, very, or somewhat important.
	And not just that, they ask these questions about Christianity, too.
	It was higher for Christianity.
	But what's happened is, with Trump voters, is that there's, I guess, over the last year, with all the...
	I mean, it's understandable.
	I've been kind of watching people like this.
	All the BLM shit, all the Antifa shit, the Ibram X. Kendi, the wokeness stuff, which just went absolutely through the roof after George Floyd died, has had a massive inflammatory effect in this poll.
	I've never seen a poll like this.
	And I've been watching, like, if you look back in the day at the all right, when all right was in 2017, right?
	Polls had come out saying, you know, about 5 to 10 percent.
	It would say 5 to 10 percent support.
	And then there was this larger group, which was about 30 percent of, I guess, whites.
	Well, that had like either white solidarity, sense of white identity, and white grievance.
	Well, something has happened.
	Something has definitely happened in the last year.
	That number has soared.
	Like, I've never seen a fool like this.
	And it was shocking.
	And I've been looking at, I've been analyzing and looking through all these polls.
	And Trump voters, I mean, that racial identity has been turned up ten notches.
	I mean, we kind of joked around saying, I mean, we joked around about the accelerationist thing saying that if, okay, well, you know, I mean, the argument was that if Trump lost, that it could radicalize people.
	Well, maybe it did.
	Right?
	I didn't vote.
	I wasn't an accelerationist.
	I wasn't not voting for Trump because of...
	I'm an accelerationist.
	My point was that we're on a train track.
	There's a left track and a right track.
	Trump wins track and a Trump lose track.
	Those people have jumped.
	I'm looking at these polls and I have never seen a poll.
	This just blew me away.
	That 64% of Trump voters say their race is extremely...
	If you look at the thing, it was like 40% said very or extremely important to their sense of identity.
	And the people who said that it wasn't important at all were like 12%.
	I was like, really?
	He lost?
	Him losing had that big of a positive effect?
	They feel that under siege right now?
	Yeah.
	Now, we didn't make...
	We just thought, you know, Trump's a dumbass.
	He's...
	I mean, we got blackpilled beyond oblivion.
	And, of course, we knew that...
	Of course, I mean, we saw this happen when Obama...
	You know when Obama won and he kind of, like, stirred up the Republicans?
	We were expecting something like that.
	But not something like where something like...
	It's been like a...
	He's quadrupling or something.
	Now, what the tragedy of Nick is, if you think about it, it kind of makes sense.
	Nick was...
	First of all, he's arrogant, so he's attacking all of us.
	Even though, literally, we were the ones who elected Trump back in 2016.
	It was the alt-right who elected him back in 2016.
	He was attacking, and these Zoomer kids weren't even eligible to vote.
	A lot of them were back then.
	They had nothing to do with electing Trump.
	Nothing.
	They kind of aged in.
	No one even heard of Nick until Charlottesville.
	And where I'm going with this is that, okay, Nick was getting, like you said, he was gaining traction with Republicans, right?
	It was becoming a big thing.
	And it's because this Apparently, I think we kind of discounted the possibility that those people might be, that sense of racial identity might be heating up.
	And the tragedy of Nick is that he collapsed literally on the five-yard line, right?
	Because he's going to get crushed by this Capitol siege.
	Now, imagine if, like, all these suburbanite voters, you know, he's, I mean, you think of Nick.
	Last three years, he's been out there outside of CPAC, you know, haranguing Charlie Kirk, and Charlie Kirk is Trump's man, and he had the Goyfer Army going against Charlie Kirk, and he was, this guy, Nick had a lot of support, right, from ordinary Zoomer, young Republican voters.
	He was, this was a thing they were worried about.
	Well, imagine Nick Fuentes is lucky.
	He probably goes down.
	I'm not worried about it anymore.
	Goes down because all this stuff gets sued into oblivion.
	Lucky if he's not thrown into prison.
	And then the GOP establishment, the GOP establishment, he was just railing and raising his fist and collapses right after he goes to prison.
	Because all their voters, because all their damn voters have left and become Democrats.
	Like the Lincoln Project.
	And not only that, but like Republican voters, I mean, we thought Trump was a pacifier.
	You rip that pacifier out of the mouth and it has unknown effects.
	These polls I'm looking at, I mean, think about it.
	If that 70% of voters at Trump wing, first of all, the same people believe the fraud check.
	The exact same figure in the poll.
	The exact same people say, you know, don't convict Trump.
	There's the wrong.
	It's all wrapped up.
	It's intrinsically wrapped up with total nonsense, and therefore it can't actually express itself.
	And even the Fuentes thing, it was wrapped up in total nonsense, and look where this leads.
	It leads to, in all likelihood, a jail cell.
	Because you have to say no to the nonsense.
	You have to take it out of the nonsense.
	White identity, our future, our ideals, you have to just rip it out of that nonsense and not draft on the nonsense, which is what he was doing.
	Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's right.
	He drafted on the nonsense.
	The way the landscape looks in 2021...
	Is that the Republican conservative, the CPAC crowd is on the verge of crumbling just because their voters aren't there anymore.
	You have this, the Trump crowd, their racial identity has gone through the roof.
	It is clear as day in the polls.
	And, like, Nick kind of collapsed on the one-yard line there.
	If he hadn't gone through that Capitol siege, God, he would...
	That's my point.
	He had no choice.
	He was on a roller coaster because that stuff was intrinsically tied in with that nonsense.
	That is the problem because it doesn't lead anywhere.
	It leads to disaster.
	All of this white identity, if it is connected to the Marjorie Taylor Greene types at QAnon, whatever is the new QAnon in the next two or three years, all of this just bullshit and religious right bullshit, let's just be also be brutally frank here, it will be destroyed and it will go down like, you know, getting dropped, fumbling the ball.
	Let me not go anywhere when it is, when it is coming from that type of Let me use a historical analogy because you see all these historical analogies from leftists, right?
	And the current historical analogy is that this is Reconstruction.
	There's been literally insurrectionists who have attacked the Capitol, and right-wing violent domestic extremists are everywhere, and they're using words like insurgency and shit because they're going with this Reconstruction.
	That is the wrong analogy.
	The correct analogy is to – are you familiar with William Jennings Bryan?
	Of course, yeah.
	Yeah, William Jennings Bryan was a lot like Trump in that, like, he had this, of course, I mean, comparing Trump to Bryan in that, like, okay, Bryan was a serious person, an absolute, you know, look, make a giant compared to damn Donald Trump, right?
	But he had this magnetic cult-like, the same magnetic cult-like effect on his followers that Trump did.
	Now, of course, now Brian was a left-wing, I mean, we think of it today as, you know, Brian is a, this is the guy who defended, you know, in the Scopes trial, but he was also like, he was a left-wing populist and a right-wing populist.
	Yeah.
	We will not be crucified on a cross of gold, isn't that the line?
	He was a silver man, so he wanted to, he was explicitly arguing for inflation.
	So what happened back in 1890s?
	He was also opposed to the First World War as well.
	I think he left Wilson's cabinet, wasn't it?
	Resigned.
	Resigned because Wilson wanted to go to war with Germany.
	So what Brian did back in 1890s, if you think of the climate back in 1890s, is the end of the Gilded Age.
	You had all these wealthy oligarchs.
	It was a time of massive record.
	Farmers were just getting killed.
	We're getting killed and we're angry.
	And what happened was that these people kind of stormed the Democratic Party of that day.
	And Brian won the nomination and transformed.
	Brian ran for president three times in 1896, 1900, and 1908.
	If you go back, if you look at that, this has been kind of interesting because I'm thinking about the parallels.
	The whole, like, when Brian took over the Democratic Party back then, the whole business, cultural, Republican establishment came down on him, right?
	It was the worst thing that ever, they spent like a, I think it was even today, it was like per capita, like the most money ever spent trying to stop a guy.
	But what Bryan did in that election, it was one of five elections in American history that was a realignment election.
	Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Bryan, FDR, and I think Reagan.
	So these things kind of happen every 50 years.
	But anyway, it just kind of reminds me like this.
	First of all, Donald Trump isn't...
	He's a right-wing populist.
	I mean, okay, but we agree with a lot of this stuff, right?
	Immigration, we don't want immigration.
	We were excited.
	We wanted to kind of close the wars.
	I mean, deport all the illegal aliens.
	That's great.
	It's not enough.
	It's not sufficient.
	But, like, imagine if he could have that kind of politics that Brian had, which was, he was, you know, He's a serious Christian, but he's also railing against the plutocracy, and could appeal to both.
	That's the history of left-wing and right-wing populism, kind of split.
	And it might be coming back together.
	That's my hope.
	Yeah, but Nick Fuentes – yeah, if Nick could just – He could have been a child preacher version of William Jennings, Brian, perhaps.
	Well, not necessarily that.
	Not necessarily that, but I'm saying like – I'm saying like suppose it was a realignment election, and it just hasn't like completed yet.
	And the Democrats are going back to being kind of like the Rockefeller Republican Party was in 30 seconds.
	Yeah, and that rising racial consciousness, especially the Christianity thing that Nick was going with, that has like 80%...
	The poll said that, according to the poll, I don't know if you've seen this, it was exactly 87% of Trump voters were worried about rising anti-white discrimination.
	Or, you know, worrying that Christianity is under attack.
	So these people are developing an explicit sense of racial and religious identity.
	It's happening.
	And this faction of the Trumpists, right, it hasn't, I mean, it hasn't fully, like, burst out yet.
	But, I mean, that was, I just saw that.
	Look, I really appreciate your coming on here, because I, in terms of, My own vision, I have my disagreements with you.
	Although I see, I really do see your point.
	And then also in terms of my own kind of personal aspirations, like career aspirations, I'm definitely going in a very strongly different direction than that.
	But I actually, I see what you're saying and I think it's definitely worth contemplating at the very least.
	And no, I appreciate that.
	No, I think the William Jennings Bryant thing is interesting.
	And also, I need to write on this as well.
	The Wexit piece is out there, but I think it needs to be a big thing on really a much bigger possible realignment that's taking place and to kind of take it bigger and bring it up to date.
	And just calling it the white vote, I think there's a little...
	There might even be a little book in there.
	So I need to do some more writing on this myself.
	Oh, about Pat.
	We didn't comment on the Pat feud.
	Well, yeah, let's tie a bow on it with the Pat feud.
	Look, I have a certain...
	You know, Fuentes blocked me on Twitter a long time ago.
	That's all I guess you need to know.
	He's denounced me and so on.
	And it actually might be weirdly related to Pat.
	So Pat strikes me as a rat fleeing a sinking ship.
	But there's another weird aspect to it.
	He's right to live.
	I know.
	Rats are smart.
	You shouldn't underestimate the intelligence of a rat.
	It can feed itself.
	It can eat anything.
	It can find food anywhere.
	It can live anywhere.
	It can survive everything.
	It's brilliant.
	It's much more intelligent than a human being.
	He's a rat leaving the ship.
	Is that your psycho?
	I think Pat's right not to do this.
	I have another kind of interesting take, which is that he, in this weird way, okay, do this.
	All right.
	Watch the video of Pat.
	I've never called him Pat.
	I never liked him, even when I was around him.
	I don't have any.
	I can't.
	Yeah.
	But okay.
	Watch the video of Patrick Casey with the sound off, and then pretend that you're just a normie.
	What are you watching?
	You're watching Nick Fuentes in this weird way.
	While, like, even though, I mean, even though he said, like, oh, I like America First as a concept, he was basically like, oh, it's become a personality cult.
	He's the next Richard Spencer, all that kind of stuff he was saying.
	But he was acting like Fuentes.
	Yeah, Pat probably sees Nick.
	He was aesthetically Fuentes.
	He's trying to be Fuentes.
	Because Nick Fuentes is going down, that's why.
	Exactly, and it's now time for Pat to step in his shoes.
	Everyone knows it.
	Yeah.
	Exactly.
	And Pat, so he's a rat fleeing the ship.
	The second time he's tried it, right?
	Oh yeah, he did the same thing to me.
	I mean...
	The second time, he sees a moment of...
	He drafts off someone who is superior to him.
	Because, again, I'm not here to bash Fuentes.
	He is very articulate.
	He's got a weird charisma.
	I fucking hate it, but that's me.
	He clearly does have a charisma.
	So Pat has no charisma and is not interesting and is just kind of smarmy and unbearable.
	But he drafts.
	It's like racing.
	You draft behind the car.
	You get right behind the car that's in the lead.
	And you have better aerodynamics because that car is in the lead.
	And then that car spins out and you pass it.
	And that's what he does to everyone he's ever around.
	Yeah, he did this to me.
	I mean, he was...
	It sure looked familiar.
	Just like after Charlottesville is what it reminded me of.
	Pat knows when the...
	Pat is always eyeing the exit, right?
	He's eyeing the exit and he's got his dagger kind of poised.
	It's sheathed, but he's kind of like his hand is...
	Itching to grab it and stab someone in the back.
	He is right.
	This is 100 times worse than Charlottesville, though.
	He is right.
	A lot of things that he said were completely correct.
	The FBI never interviewed us or confiscated our bank accounts or did any of this crap like you're doing the Fuentes.
	No, and they're using Fuentes as a prop.
	They're using him as a club against Trump.
	Now, they did that to the alt-right to a degree, but this is endlessly more powerful.
	And then also there's the added aspect to it of he's part of the Trump cult.
	It is infinitely worse, and it's going to be infinitely worse for them.
	They don't have to worry about a civil suit or whatever.
	That should be the least of their concerns.
	They need to worry about not being...
	I'm indicted by a grand jury, which I think will happen in the next three to six months.
	I predicted it on Twitter.
	I stand behind it.
	There's nothing that will change.
	There's nothing that I've seen that changes my mind about that.
	Pat also seems to insinuate that Baked Alaska has been cracked like an egg, just like I said he was going to happen.
	I mean, he said there's people who at the Capitol have already turned.
	He kind of put that one out there.
	I wonder who that is.
	I don't know.
	I don't even know.
	I'm so disconnected from these people.
	I don't wish at all.
	Like I said, the tragedy of it is, I think, you know, man, if they hadn't followed Ali and done the stop the shill shit and, you know, with Trump, this explosion in racial consciousness happened with Trump voters right as they're going down.
	Like, it just, God.
	Talking about making a swing.
	They were right in there.
	The whole plan was to inherit this stuff.
	It's like saying, Trump, oh, if only you hadn't slept with Stormy Daniels.
	It's in his nature.
	And it's in the nature of what they were on.
	They were on this rollercoaster ride, and they thought that they had a steering wheel.
	But it was actually a little kiddie steering wheel.
	That is connected to nothing and just makes you feel like you're steering.
	Do you think the door closed but in an elevator that, like, it literally is not connected to anything?
	Last question.
	Last question for Richard Spencer.
	Okay.
	Suppose, like, you know, living under woke Sharia, under Biden, all the political correctness being more intense than ever, suppose this trend, like, continues of Trump voters.
	Will it continue?
	Would Richard Spencer step forward to lead the white race?
	Assuming that happens.
	Well, you know, an arrogant bastard like myself is itching to step forward to lead the white race.
	Yeah, that's not the issue.
	Never say never.
	Maybe after these two...
	I never said never.
	I'm just saying, yeah, of course I would do it.
	You're plotting eyeing a comeback here?
	Of course I'm eyeing a comeback.
	I'm never, in the words of James Bond.
	I never left.
	But, yeah, look, I'm also kind of realistic enough to understand what is possible and what we need to do.
	Yeah, this is soaked in conspiracies and attached to Trump like a coal-white gravity force.
	Yeah.
	Too bad.
	We might need to do other things.
	We might need to do a lot of intellectual deadlifts.
	In order to be strong enough to actually play in this league.
	We need to do those deadlifts that we didn't do.
	We were faking it until we made it.
	We didn't make it to a certain degree, but we didn't make it in the way that we ultimately need to.
	We need to go back to the gym.
	And, you know, rub chalk on our hands and start doing deadlifts and cleans and know that we're not really on the field right now, but we need to do that stuff that we didn't do.
	We'll monitor the situation and if this white identity stuff, like, if they're serious about that and, you know, that continues to be a rising trend, it'll be interesting.
	We'll see what happens, you know.
	It's sad for Nick.
	It looks like he's going to...
	I guess next to the Unabomber or something.
	Well, it's been quite a ride.
	I hope not.
	I don't even wish that on him.
	Well, I've weirdly kind of...
	I hated him a lot.
	I mean, again, I am really...
	I mean, I intellectually checked out of what they were doing years ago.
	But also, just socially, all of those people hate the hell out of me.
	Like I'm still there like bet noir.
	And, you know, so I have no connection to it.
	Um, but I don't know.
	In, in a weird way, Why do they hate it?
	Why do they, like, you know, I mean, you told them Trump was kind of like leading them on.
	It was, I mean, a lot of the stuff you said come true.
	Yeah, I mean, that Nick was, you know, gripping and was stirring up this, I mean, they didn't, a cult of personality.
	They didn't want to hear it.
	It was a personality cult around Trump and then the subsidiary of that in the MLM scheme was around Nick.
	But it was also a kind of personality cult of the cult.
	And I think maybe all cults are like this to some degree in the sense that it was a Nick was put in a position and Patrick was especially because again Patrick is really Extremely unimpressive and just annoying.
	I mean, just kind of unbearable.
	I listened to his thing on audio only.
	I was kind of like, I had to not actually watch it.
	Pat is like the guy from The Sopranos when you find out that Big Pussy is working for the feds.
	I've never seen this.
	People tell me I would like it, actually, because I like The Godfather.
	It was a cult around the cult.
	All of Nick's bugs were features.
	The fact that he was this Zoomer kid who left college and lived in his mom's basement and ate McDonald's every day and played video games all the time and was an insult.
	All of those...
	Bugs from the perspective of me were features from the perspective of the movement.
	Because, you know, this guy, it was actually a liberal, this New York Times reading liberal who told me this.
	And I was like, oh, wow, that explains everything.
	He cracked the nut.
	That some people are, you could say, entertainers or leaders.
	They're intellectually challenging or they're...
	They kind of just have it.
	They are saying things that no one else says and they're kind of maybe inspiring, but also maybe challenging, kind of rub you the wrong way.
	Or they're just wildly entertaining like Alex Jones or even Steven Crowder.
	They're just kind of funny.
	They're bros.
	They go crazy online and all that kind of stuff.
	And then there's the type that's the reflector.
	And Tim Poole, who is the most successful right-wing YouTuber.
	I would add, who is the most mediocre.
	And he just reflects his audience back to them.
	It's like, it's a narcissism.
	You're just looking in the mirror.
	You have this guy who's not good looking, who's not that intelligent, who doesn't research his subjects, who has all these...
	Like, illogical conclusions.
	But that's you.
	And so you're watching you, and it's kind of soothing.
	And I think Nick was a little bit of both.
	I think Nick is articulate, and he does have balls.
	I'll actually grant him that after 2020.
	He does have balls.
	Now, balls, you might need to temper those balls sometimes.
	Yeah, it takes a damn ball to cheer on what was happening at the Capitol.
	Yeah, exactly.
	To go that far.
	But he reflected them as well.
	But he reflected them.
	He's like, you're damn right.
	We busted down the doors of Congress and sent the vice president of the United States.
	I don't know if it's bald.
	I just don't think it was like...
	Maybe, like you said, he lives in a video game.
	He lives in a video game.
	It was his joker moment.
	He lives in...
	He lives in a hyper real world of a video game, but then the simulation became reality.
	And it was like, holy shit, this is actually real.
	And I think it's probably now just...
	You know, coming into his consciousness.
	But he was both entertaining, but he also kind of reflected the movement.
	And that whole movement, the Amnat thing, it was identitarian in a way.
	It was gamers.
	It was incels.
	I think it probably did attract boomers at the end.
	But it was that type of person who's kind of, you know, racist and mad, but doesn't really know how to articulate something.
	And in some ways...
	Its identity, that's also its ultimate limitation.
	But it was its ultimate source of strength.
	So it's just to be fair.
	So it's an interesting thing.
	It actually is a kind of page in right-wing history, you could say.

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