It’s Monday, January 25, 2021, and welcome back to The Spencer Report ... The progress bus doesn’t have any breaks. Joining me today is Edward Dutton. On January 20, “history” was made. I’m, of course, referring to President Joe Biden’s appointed Rachel Levine as his Assistant Health Secretary—the first trasngereded cabinet member to be confirmed by the Senate . . . or at least the first one we know of. The appointment was celebrated by the media as the next stage of progress. But few—maybe none—were willing to critically and scientifically examine the origins and nature of transsexuality. Where does it come from? What does it mean? Are transexuals, as it were, male brains or “souls” in female bodies—or something else entirely? It’s past time that we investigate this major trend. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit radixjournal.substack.com/subscribe
It's Monday, January 25th, 2021, and welcome back to The Spencer Report.
This progress bus doesn't have any brakes.
Joining me today is Edward Dutton.
On January 20th, history was made.
I'm of course referring to President Joe Biden's appointment of Rachel Levine as his assistant health secretary, the first transgendered cabinet member to be confirmed by the Senate.
Or at least the first one we know of.
The appointment was celebrated by the media as the next stage of progress, but few, maybe none, were willing to critically and scientifically examine the origins and nature of transsexuality.
Where does it come from?
What does it mean?
Are transsexuals, as it were, male brains or souls in female bodies?
Or something else entirely?
It's past time that we critically investigate Ed, welcome back.
How are you?
I'm okay, yes.
How are you doing?
Good.
Yes.
Doing well.
Ready to talk about one of the most important issues of our time, I guess.
Can't believe I'm saying this.
I couldn't imagine saying this five years ago, but now I have to.
And that is transsexuality and transsexuality in politics.
We have...
Gone through the first black president.
That is now...
Who cares?
We've had our first woman of color who's either Jamaican or Indian, depending on the year.
That's already in.
No one's even talking about that.
I mean, it's old.
It's like wearing...
What were those horrible rubber shoes that people wore circa 2004?
Crogs or clogs?
It's like wearing combat trousers.
Exactly.
Well, yes.
Or jorts or something.
No.
But now we have what's truly important, which is Rachel Levine has been nominated by Joe Biden to be his assistant health secretary.
And so she will be confirmed by the Senate.
So this is going to be one to watch, I guess.
I'm curious if anyone will push back on her, but I think most of them will be afraid to.
But we have our first transsexual member of the cabinet, major appointment.
And I think this demonstrates how far we've come in just around five years.
It was around...
Six or seven years ago, that gay marriage, at least in the United States, was just settled, basically.
And in symbolic fashion, Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple, came out, even though everyone assumed or knew he was gay.
He just came out, and that seemed to just end the gay issue.
It had been settled.
And a month later...
Caitlyn Jenner became a household name and the transsexual issue came up.
A year later, we're talking about transsexual children and 2020, we're appointing them to the president's cabinet.
It goes by pretty fast.
If you don't stop to look around, you might miss something.
Life is stunning and brave, isn't it?
Life is stunning and brave.
That is what the future of America is going to be.
It's not just going to be declined into winter.
It's going to be a stunning and brave decline.
It just keeps getting better.
I think it's very, very interesting.
As you know, I've had a number of personal experiences with transsexuals.
None of them have done particularly well.
A very large body of research on the negative psychological dimensions associated with transsexuality.
And increasingly, if you talk about that, even in academia, even in journals with titles like the journal of whatever, journals that overtly you would think that they would want to discuss these kinds of things, then you will get at least one of the two peer reviewers saying your research has the potential to marginalize already marginalized people.
So what?
As if that...
That is therefore an argument that it must be wrong.
So you have this sort of fact-value conflations, obvious fallacy, which is something I had to go through with an article which I published recently in an academic journal.
There was a transsexual researcher who was allowed to write a really scurrilous critique of it, and at the moment it seems me and my colleague are not allowed to respond.
And it's obvious why we're not allowed to respond, because of the pressure the journal editor is under.
He has to allow the queer review, as someone, what's the fellow's name, once called it.
These days, research on this matter has to go through peer review, and then Blanchard, that's his name, Blanchard said it has to go through peer review, and then it has to go through queer review.
And it's quite possible for something to pass peer review, but fail queer review.
Because if you write an article on transsexuality, normally if you have two reviewers, you'll have one peer reviewer who'll actually be motivated by science, but you may also have a queer reviewer.
And that's the hurdle at which it might fall, because that comes about basically saying that if you, and I had a queer reviewer that said this, that the kind of arguments you are putting about transsexuality are akin to the kind of arguments that people are putting in the 50s about gays.
So that's what they're comparing it to, which is no comparison at all, because the evidence of psychological problems with homosexuals is nothing compared to the evidence of psychological problems with transsexuals.
There are psychological problems.
Abundance.
I would have thought that the fact that a person was...
Not an early-onset transsexual, because that can be that there's some sort of problem with development or some sort of problem with the brain, so that it really is rather like they are a girl in a boy's body or vice versa, but with late-onset transsexuals, and that's what we're talking about with Dr. Levine.
We're talking about a person who was in their 50s or something like this, 40s, when they transitioned.
Then there is evidence of...
Borderline personality disorder, of narcissism, of things like depression, of course.
And people might say, oh, well, you know, this is because they're mistreated and they're excluded.
And so this makes them...
I'm not sure that's the case with narcissism.
But if that were the case, then why is it associated with all manner of physical problems?
I'm not sure Rachel Levine was excluded from anything.
She attended Harvard and Tulane Medical School and she was appointed to major faculty appointments at Penn State and things like that.
Maybe not in the top elite, but kind of in the surrounding elite.
Being a male-to-female transsexual, a trans woman, correlates with masculinization.
Physical and mental masculinization, as I showed in the paper.
And all manner of obscure problems like anorexia and really obscure sort of physical problems.
So, yeah, it's a peculiar thing.
Well, let's back up a little bit.
Because I think we should make some distinctions.
Before we get into this.
I think a distinction should be made between what we now know as being transgendered and transvestitism.
of various shades, which have been around since the Stone Age, you could say.
Transvestitism is frequently employed in the context of camp, theater, satire, sometimes religious rituals, and so on.
It has also been a long-time perversion of certain men who want to put on pantyhose or whatever to...
Get whatever titillation they get from that.
It's been around for a long time.
It's been a thing.
And it's been understood as either theatrics or a perversion or fetish.
And it's been a part of society, but certainly on the margins.
What we have now is really fundamentally different.
Because it is not...
About, oh, this weirdo.
He looks like a boring accountant, but you wouldn't believe what he gets up to on the weekends.
He is cross-dressing or doing shows or whatever.
It went from that to, this is my identity.
This is who I am.
I was a woman born into a man's body or a man born into a woman's body or what have you.
That has been around.
I know there are a few famous cases of transsexual identity, transsexual surgery, gender reassignment.
But it was nothing like it is today.
It was nothing where we're having these debates on cable news about bullying of trans children and all sorts of things.
But I think it's this identity.
question that is what separates it.
Because it is now assumed by our talking heads and leaders that you should not understand this in a way as a perversion or as camp.
You need to understand this as an identity.
It's kind of almost de-sexualized in a way.
And I think this is what is new and different and maybe most kind of baffling and important about the phenomenon.
I mean, according to Ray Blanchard's research, and he's very much the authority on this, he talks about the transsexual typology, and there are two kinds of transsexuals.
So there are those that we would call the homosexual transsexuals, and these are people who are highly feminized.
They are physically feminized.
They are mentally feminized.
If they're men, it's normal.
They like wearing women's clothes.
They show signs of opposite-sex behavior very young.
And it would be these kinds of people that are going to be the ones that are, as it were, the convincing transsexuals, where they transition, and also those that would have been transvestites.
And they are distinct from what he calls the autogynephilic transsexuals.
And autogynephilic transsexuals, he argues, what we're dealing with is a fetish.
And these are people who are sexually aroused or otherwise profoundly satisfied by the idea of having A female body.
And this is kind of narcissistic.
They are, in a sense, sexually aroused by an idealised version of themselves.
And desiring this body...
They're becoming the object of their desire.
They are becoming the object of their sexual desire.
Now, these kinds of people, they do not tend to have many indicators.
They are not feminine.
They are not effeminate.
They are not feminine men.
And this only tends to hit in after adolescence.
So people that have...
Autogynophilic transsexuality, there is no indication at a young age that they are transvestites or anything like that.
And he's estimated to say that that's the majority.
That's about 75% of them are these autogynophilic transsexuals.
And, of course, they are trying to...
Alice Dreger has done a very interesting book on this.
And they notes that they are trying to suppress discussion of this.
They're trying to sort of say that, oh, no, all transsexuals are just people who are who are the same as those that are born thinking they're in the wrong body.
But they've just realized it later.
or something, and that's not the case because the correlates, the physical and mental correlates of the two categories are different, are very different.
And so...
So those are the two things we have to distinguish between.
The heritability, it should be noted.
If this was all to do with genetics and things like this, then the heritability would be high.
But there are a number of studies that have shown that the heritability is low.
So the heritability of transsexuality, of gender dysphoria, is something like 0.3.
And so this would imply that it is overwhelmingly things going wrong.
Well, starting in the womb, but also just more broadly in development that is causing this.
They are not born into the wrong body.
There's some sort of problem with their development that brings this about.
And the correlates with regard to autoguidophilous transsexuality, I mean, the idea that it's to do with...
Dismiss correlates like depression and stuff like that as, oh, well, it's just to do with them being mistreated.
But the correlates of being a trans woman include high cholesterol, high blood pressure, vision problems, deafness, chronic pain, arthritis, digestive problems, lung problems, kidney complaints, diabetes.
So it's simply asthma.
It's simply pubic lice is a correlate, by the way.
Among trans men, that is to say female to male transsexuals...
That might be environmental.
Previous...
Yeah, I doubt that's genetic.
Previous menstrual irregularities, premature or delayed menage, hyper...
Andrinism, that is to say they have complications because they have high levels of testosterone.
And you have high evidence of high testosterone in both of these groups.
They have higher 2D-4D ratios.
They are more likely to have autism.
They are more likely to have a number of other markers of testosterone.
So the way that it makes sense to Blanchard and to others is to say that if you are masculinized...
Then one of the correlates of being masculinised is narcissism.
One of the correlates, shall I say, is autism.
Autism does correlate not just with transsexuality, but with other mind-body dysphoria, such as eating disorders, such as anorexia, such as even there's a particular disorder where people believe they're disabled.
are very satisfied by the idea of chopping bits off themselves or with Munchausen syndrome.
Or these other sort of delusions.
And the idea is that if you are autistic, you are very high in systematising, you're very low in empathy, and therefore your world doesn't make sense because you make mistakes all the time and you upset people.
And also you're easily overstimulated, easily overwhelmed by stimuli.
And the result of that is that you don't feel in control of your own life.
And so you don't develop a stable sense of self, of where you are in the world compared to other people.
So you don't know who you are.
There's a kind of a void.
And how do you fill this void?
Well, one way that you fill it is by getting a clear, structured identity that's clear and that's you and that's very black and white.
And this is what you find with borderline personality disorder.
So they will get a very clear sense of identity and that's it.
But ultimately it will be unstable because they will still be nagged by these doubts and whatever.
And so frequently it will flip and they'll have a period of complete chaos and depression and then they'll flip into a very different identity.
I think you get things like this when you get people that move from being, you know, far right to far left and vice versa, things like that.
And an example of borderline personality disorder where you do this is narcissism.
And with narcissism, you deal with the fundamental void by believing that you're perfect and you're wonderful and you're superb and whatever.
And that's it.
That's how you cope with it.
But, of course, you entertain secret doubts.
And so anyone that highlights those secret doubts by highlighting a flaw in your identity will be the subject of narcissistic rage, and you'll get very, very angry with them, and you'll want to destroy them.
And Alice Jagger, I think, someone called Lawrence, her name was, did an article on narcissistic rage in transsexuals, how it's not good enough for transsexuals for them to criticize you.
They'll go after your job.
They'll bring up your employer and say, do you want to be working?
They'll try and destroy you, because that's what you have to do.
Destroy the person that's questioning your identity.
And so you can see why these things all kind of come together in narcissism.
The other thing is that autistics tend to be sexually aroused by things, by objects, you know, a breast man or a leg man, whatever, that's more a male thing.
And so this is taken to an extreme.
So you have narcissism where you are, where you, where, oh, who am I?
Who am I?
Who am I?
Oh, maybe I'm a woman.
That's the first thing that you have.
And secondly, you have the development of a narcissistic sexuality where you're aroused, as it were, by yourself, so a fetish, with the same underpinning, which is autism.
And these two things come together in transsexuality.
And then because the...
If the process of it occurring is a consequence of sort of high mutational load, problems in early development, things like that, then it correlates with all these other problems like asthma and deafness and whatever.
And it also correlates with eating disorders, because in a sense, an eating disorder is, you know, your world is chaos, you're autistic, you need control, you take the control by not eating, and that's how you control the situation.
So they parallel.
So I think that's what we're dealing with.
And so what I would suspect is that a person who is transsexual has very serious, not a person that is a young transsexual, but a person who is a late-onset transsexual, and the later the onset, the worse, really.
Is a person who's going to have very serious problems.
And I don't know if that's true on the individual basis with Dr. Devine, but that's what one would predict.
So, a couple of questions.
What percentage of the population do you think suffers from these kinds of personality disorders that, I guess, eventuate in transsexuality?
Personality disorders?
That's very, very hard to say.
Psychopathic personality, for example, has been put at about 1%.
And they're on a spectrum, remember, so you've got degrees to which it could be argued that we're all on a spectrum from borderline personality disorder to whatever the opposite of that is.
So that's hard to say.
And with transsexuals, it's been estimated that it's about 0.3%.
But it's growing, but I think that's a consequence of the fact that it's kind of becoming fashionable.
Well, I was looking at some statistic.
It's still under 1%, but it's like 0.7% among 18 to 35-year-olds or something.
there's clearly a generational thing going on now whether that's environmental or actually genetic because we are different every day I think it's too fast and too dramatic a change for it to be genetic.
I think it's mainly environmental.
You just have this...
This spiralling individualism where you question everything and things that previously were completely unacceptable are now acceptable.
I mean, gender dysphoria, there's one study which found that 57% of people who have gender dysphoria fit the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder and 81% have some kind of personality disorder, normally borderline personality disorder.
So that's how prevalent it is.
Only 20% of them don't have a personality disorder.
And so, yeah, I think it is growing because it's more acceptable and it's a way of playing for status.
It may be a way of making sense of a sort of a gay phase, particularly with this sudden onset gender dysphoria, which there was a paper on by someone called Littman a few years ago, which was very controversial.
And that seems to be mainly among teenage girls.
And so it's almost like teenage girls are going through, because, remember, sexuality in girls is only 0.2 to do with genetics, so it's overwhelmingly to do with environment.
And in England and whatever, they have these all-girls schools, and so they go through, you know, they have the little sort of lesbianicious feelings, which in the past, they would have just, it would be a phase, you don't talk about it, it's totally unacceptable, and you get over it, and that's that.
And now, of course, they're encouraged to act upon them.
But no, no, it's not even homosexual.
It could be, well, maybe I'm actually a man.
And there have been instances of entire girl friendship groups who in days of old would just be anorexic.
In the 90s.
Yeah, the 90s.
But now in the 2000s, they're turning into men.
Anorexia is like wearing combat trousers or whatever.
No one's anorexic anymore.
Get with the modern day.
Get into the 21st century.
And it seems that the same people who would have been...
Who was it?
Someone mentioned this.
Steve Saylor mentioned this actually in one of his articles.
It's the same people that used to be anorexic that are now...
And they go through a phase.
And then, of course, the problem is that they're now encouraged, because it's an identity, to act on it, to mutilate their bodies.
And if we were under normal environment, normal conditions, then that wouldn't happen.
It's terribly, terribly sad.
As you know, I have a personal experience of it.
I had a good head.
A good friend when I was at university who was eventually a male to female transsexual.
And he fitted the stereotype very clearly.
He was clearly autistic.
I've done a couple of videos on him, actually.
A guy called Alex Waddle.
And he...
Fascinating guy.
He dealt with everything as though it was a philosophical proposition.
So you'd say, Alex, you want to come to the pub?
You want to come to the pub?
You want to come to the student body?
So when you say you're going to go to the student bar, are you going to go there just to hang out, or are we going to have a drink?
We're going to have a drink, Alex.
We're going to have a drink at the student bar.
So when you say a drink, are you saying just like one drink, or are we going to have many drinks?
We're going to have a lot of drinks.
We're going to go to the bar, and we're going to get drunk, Alex.
The thing is, I haven't gone to...
And it would just go on like this.
And he was very, very clever in classes, and he achieved some very interesting things.
He was president of the philosophy society.
And then suddenly when he was about 21, he just suddenly decided he wanted to be a woman.
And it went downhill from there.
And it was just...
And he ended up dead.
Ended up dead.
But he had all these terrible physical conditions.
And when I looked into it later, and I've been researching it, those conditions do actually correlate with subsequently becoming a transsexual.
Transsexuality correlates with those precise, with those precise conditions that he had.
These obscure disorders, which meant he had constant back But yeah, when he finished at university, he went away for a while and then he went to Brighton, University of Sussex, a master's degree in philosophy and politics, transitioned into being a woman.
And then I don't know the details, but by 2009, he was working as a prostitute in Brighton, which is a...
Known, like, the gay capital of England, basically.
And he was working from home, and he kept thousands and thousands of pounds in his flat in Brighton, and from his money working as a prostitute, because he was a very good-looking, successful male-to-female transsexual, I should say.
I mean, on occasions, after he had declared that he wanted to be a woman, I would be walking through Durham, and I would see this pretty blonde, tall girl over the road at a distance, smiling at me.
I'm like, what's this?
God, I'm in luck today.
Oh, God, it's Alex.
And decided that he wanted to be called Drea and Alexandria, I suppose.
And all this.
And then eventually, yeah, he was one day, very naively, he had no pimp or anything.
And he took the, I always think of him as he, took the clients back to his home.
And it seems, we're not 100% sure, but it seems what happened was there was a Sky television fitter.
Called Neil Mullan or something.
Neil Mullan or something.
And he must have said to him something like, your breasts are very pertal.
You're a very nice breast.
And Alex said, well, yes, they would be very nice because I was born a man.
So the fakes, obviously, they're going to look very good.
Something like that.
And so, of course, this guy went absolutely mad and strangled him and then set fire to the floor.
Awful.
And I think it's terrible in a way for society because I think...
In normal times, society wouldn't have let him do these destructive things.
And society would have looked after him, which is what he needed.
He needed someone to look after him so he could do philosophy.
That's what he needed.
But no, society let him go off on his own and mess up his life.
In terms of the sexual attraction of transsexuals, I noted that with Caitlyn Jenner, who is the world's most famous transsexual, she or he is dating another male to female transsexual.
And so it's in this kind of weird way, Caitlyn Jenner is still attracted to women.
But is that...
Is that a typical relationship?
Yeah, we looked at the data on that in the paper that we did, and that is the case.
So these relations, when they transition into being women, overtly women, they are disproportionately lesbians, like way above the percentage of what would be lesbians among women.
And that would be consistent with the evidence that they are high in I
met her as a woman and she looks like a woman so I always call her she.
And she once said to me that she has a girlfriend and she was having sex with this girlfriend and she said to me that she just kept thinking to myself, God, I wish I still had my dick.
Well, I think we can go into this area as well because I am hearing more and more stories about...
Gender transition regret that, of course, if you go through a phase in high school and you haven't botched your body, then you can be okay.
But there's serious regret among people after going through a surgery, a major genital mutilation surgery, and it just sounds extremely tragic.
Listen to these people.
They've made a decision that they can't reverse.
I mean, it's infinitely worse than getting a bad tattoo, you could say.
It strikes me that you can think about narcissism and borderline personality and whatever.
And we think about it in a black and white way.
So people like to say, you know, Donald Trump's a narcissist or whatever.
And it's as though it's sort of that's him and that's what he is and he always will be.
But that's not how it works.
People...
Go through phases, many people, of being mentally ill or unstable or whatever.
And they deal with that in various ways.
And one way that they can deal with it is by...
You know, borderline personality, narcissism, something like that.
And then eventually as they get older and they get more intelligent and their conscientiousness goes up and their neuroticism goes down, which it does, mental instability goes down with age, then these things can change.
And it's true with fetishes as well.
A person can develop a sexual fetish and it does become less powerful with age.
So it's perfectly possible that they could have a sexual fetish at a certain age in their lives, and then it would weaken considerably later on.
And so these are the kind of things that may well be happening with these people.
They may well be going through a phase of mental instability resulting in narcissism and fetish and whatever.
And then as they get older, they grow out of it.
And they're mentally more stable and they're sexually more normal.
Deeply regret what they've done.
So it strikes me that in a way a responsible society would understand that and would not allow them, you could argue, to do this.
Yeah, because I think what is truly disturbing and shocking, I mean, if it were only Caitlyn Jenner or if it were only some Just, you know, stupid person.
I remember the, I've been a homebody for 2020, but I did do one driving trip and I was driving across the Midwest from Chicago here.
And I was actually, I think I was in Wisconsin.
I was in some really small kind of podunk town in Wisconsin.
And I was getting gas filling up the tank.
And I went in to go get a coffee or a bag of chips or something.
And at this small little town where you see a bunch of, you know, bearded.
Truck drivers and, you know, all these kind of, you know, real earthy types.
And this man came in with his daughter and he was, you know, overweight, didn't look particularly interesting in any way, but he was there with his teenage daughter and he was dressed up basically like a female porn star.
He was wearing just tight.
This guy is not in shape, yet he's wearing all this just tight, hot pink garb or something.
I remember I was just walking past him and I was at the cashier lady and we were just kind of looking at each other and we didn't even have to say anything.
I was just kind of like, what has happened to this world?
How is this even possible?
I'm in rural Wisconsin and I'm Encountering these freaks.
Can't you guys just be boring again?
I mean, it was just bizarre.
And I think where it's really disturbing, it's in that case where he's doing that around his teenage daughter.
I mean, if he wants to go get his freak on of the weekend, then whatever.
But he's exposing malleable minds to this.
But I think it's even worse.
Oh, go ahead.
I was going to say that there was a study, it's quite an old study now, I haven't seen anything done recently on it, which I came across recently, from the 70s, which found that people that are transsexual, of course this is based on a tiny sample, I mean this is the 70s, are more intelligent.
They have elevated intelligence.
And that also seems to be true of homosexuals, that they have...
Elevated intelligence compared to heterosexuals.
And we can speculate on why that might be.
And one of the things I guess is perhaps the correlation between intelligence and openness.
So you're just more open to bizarre things in a way that you wouldn't otherwise be.
New ideas including.
Right?
Exactly.
So you're more open to this kind of thing.
Lower in sort of instinctiveness and just instinctive gut reactions.
Another thing is people that are intelligent are more...
Thoughtful I suppose in some ways and so therefore that they are in that sense they think too much and there is an association between very high intelligence and autism as well and so then this can make very very high intelligent people like just the which is it better to be an unhappy Socrates or a happy pig you know you are definitely an unhappy Socrates and so you might think too much and then you start what's the point of my life who am I and then you start oh maybe I'm a woman.
And I can see how this kind of might have been true with my friend Alex.
This is exactly what was going on.
And another example, I was on the plane coming back from America in about 2016.
And it was a very rocky flight.
It was really horrible.
I don't like flying at the best of times, but it's horrible.
And I was next to this male-to-female transsexual who was a Canadian, but who was a waitress in New York, and who looked like a transsexual.
I mean, there's no question about it.
And I noticed, she introduced herself to me as Collie.
And then I saw her show the passport to this guy.
And I said, Colin.
And so after a judicial pause, I just said, so when did Colin become Colin?
And then this person was quite happy to chat about this.
Very intelligent person.
Very reasonable person.
But for some reason, she couldn't quite make sense of.
This felt like the right thing to do.
At quite a late age.
But the thing that is disturbing about it, I mean, again, if this were just some weird thing or some isolated individual, it's not a big deal.
But particularly where gender reassignment surgery is happening among young people.
And you would, of course, agree as a father yourself.
My daughter thought she was a dinosaur for a while.
It's inherent to being young that you're asking questions like, who am I?
What am I?
What does this all mean?
You're inherently going through phases of alienation and identity changes.
You're going through puberty.
You don't know what you're feeling.
It's natural.
And the fact that a parent would...
Take some isolated moment that is probably very genuine of questioning who I am or going through a weird puberty phase or whatever, and take that moment and then botch their child in a way that is all but irreversible.
Just seems so shockingly immoral that it's hard for me to put into words actually how angry.
It makes me that this is allowed, that this is actually legal, not just legal, but applauded and celebrated.
There was a recent case where Joe Biden, our new president, was at some LGBT town hall, and there was some just goofy, you know, librarian-looking woman who was just grinning, thinking how progressive she is.
Oh, look, I've just gender reassigned my son.
It's just, it is truly grotesque and horrifying.
And I guess maybe my question is also kind of this.
I don't discount all that you've talked about in terms of strong correlations with medical conditions, personality disorders.
But do you think there's maybe even something a little...
I guess you could say strategic at play here.
It's like the cuckoo will lay its egg in another bird's nest and it will actually insidiously get that bird to raise its young.
You'll get the other bird to engage in parental investment in its young.
In nature, there are ways of camouflage and trickery and so on that goes on.
Do you think that...
There's an environmental factor.
Let's say for that woman who went to Joe Biden, she looks like just a tedious, boring woman.
And now she feels like a hero because she's part of this new wave.
And even for, say, a white male, how do you join the diversity gravy train?
Well, you can become gay, but even becoming gay is now getting old.
Now you can kind of be a woman and enter into the world of diversity and shaming other people who disagree with you and so on.
All of these perks.
And that there's almost a kind of, for lack of a better word, strategic quality to all this that's happening.
Yeah, I think that's probably right.
What should make sense of it in terms of is kind of runaway individualism.
So throughout history, humans are evolved to be pack animal, and in that sense they have pack instincts, but they are evolved to ascend to the top of the pack, and in that sense they have individualizing instincts.
Because it's only in prehistory, it's only if you're at the top of the pack, particularly if you're male, that you get any women.
So you can see and pass on your genes.
So we have these two sets of instincts.
And so one of the things that you get under conditions of group selection when two groups are fighting each other, which has been the case until relatively recently, is you can't become too individualistic.
Because if you become too individualistic, then the group falls apart.
But you also can't become too group-oriented, because if you become too group-oriented, maybe you suppress genius and original ideas, and that's no good either.
And so you have to have a balance between the two.
Now, if you take away group selection, you just get runaway individualism.
And so you start off by, let's say, questioning the religious dogmas, and then from there you question whether God exists, and then from there...
You're advocating nihilism or whatever.
And you can see how this works with sexuality.
And there's nothing to stop it.
And so at some point, once you start having individualistic ideas which are anti your own fitness interests, that can perfectly conceivably happen.
The individualism instinct doesn't care about fitness.
The fitness comes about as a consequence of the relationship between the individualism instinct and other selection pressures.
Take away the selection pressures.
Off it goes.
And so it doesn't matter if these people are damaging their own fitness and meaning they can't have children or damaging society's fitness or whatever.
What matters is that they're winning in the individualistic battle to be at the top of the hierarchy.
That's what matters.
And that's your right.
And so one way they could do that, if they're men, is by becoming women.
Oh, I can't be a successful sports star as a man.
Become a woman.
Yeah, or if you're a woman, how can I get in on this?
Oh, I'll have a transsexual child.
Some people could argue that's a bit like Munchausen syndrome by proxy.
You're like doing this to your child.
It's like abuse.
Yeah.
And I would...
I would agree with that.
And also, I would expect women to be particularly messed up in these circumstances because they're evolved to patriarchy, and patriarchy has collapsed.
So this will mean that they'll make independent decisions, which will be potentially extremely bad and damaging.
So yeah, I think you're right, that there could be an element to which, with some people anyway, that that is what is going on.
Eddie Izzard, for example, is a comedian in the UK.
He's very funny, or used to be funny.
And his big thing was, oh, I'm transvestite.
I'm a transvestite.
And now he's also rich background, privately educated, whatever.
But I'm a transvestite.
And now he suddenly decided, oh, he's a she and all this stuff.
And it's a way of his career is on the down.
No, that's a different person.
I always found him pointing.
I point to that character.
Yeah, well, he's just a bloke that likes dressing up in women's clothes.
Yeah.
Okay, well, finish your point, and then I'll add another...
No, no, I was just going to say, I agree with you that you can see how an element of it could therefore become playing for status with transsexuality.
Yeah.
Yeah, and playing for status is an evolved behavior if there ever was one.
But yeah, I think this is another thing.
I think that was kind of the darker element to that, that a boring woman will transition her child for attention or status and permanently botch him or her.
It is truly sad.
I think there's a kind of lighter element.
I mean, I mentioned Dame Edna or so on, and I mentioned earlier at the beginning that transvestitism, or if you want to call that transgenderism, has often taken place in the context of camp or theater.
I mean, you know, some of the greatest...
Some of the most fully fleshed out female characters, like Cleopatra or Rosalind or Ophelia, were played by men in the Globe Theatre.
Shakespeare would sometimes throw in some self-aware jokes about that, but he was depicting a female character.
But also, transversitism is a fetish, but it's also kind of fun.
It's part of...
Saturday Night Live, one of the great characters, the church lady.
I remember being in college, we would always do sketches or something.
I did this in graduate school as well.
I remember impersonating one of the professors.
I put on a wig and did all this kind of funny stuff.
Everyone was rolling in the aisles.
This was 2003.
This was before our great awakening on this subject.
I think all of that kind of stuff is probably now impossible.
If a man...
Put on a wig and spoke in falsetto and did this kind of mocking impersonation of a woman.
I think he might be called out for misgendering or just cultural appropriation or shaming of the trans community.
It does seem in this way that when we create these identities out of things, it suppresses a lot of culture.
Whether that's low-body culture or whether that's Shakespeare or whether it's just fun, that we can't experience these things because of the puritanical, suffocating aspect of identity politics.
That's a fair summary.
I mean, so much comedy.
I mean, even I was watching Friends the other day with my wife, and you keep thinking, oh, they wouldn't do that now.
They wouldn't do that now.
It's too real.
That was laden in the sort of left-wing, proto-woke propaganda.
But even so, it was too realistic.
It was too much like, life is like that.
Men have jokes about gays.
Men don't want to go out with ugly women.
Men, you know, women, life is like that.
And what you increasingly, it's a group of friends and they're all white.
And life in New York, I've been there many times, is definitely like that.
I mean, you'll go in a restaurant and there might be black people and Hispanic people and white people in there, but they'll be at separate tables.
Yeah.
And perhaps it's the Asians that will cross over.
They'll be at the white table.
They're honorary white.
But it's too, like, life is like.
Even though they did these nods to it, like Ross has a girlfriend of pretty much every race while he's in Friends and whatever, it's just too realistic.
And they can't cope with that.
They can't cope with reality.
Reality, they're...
These neurotic people, they can't cope with reality.
Reality is horrible.
Experience reality is horrible.
And they want to be shown what they see as this idealized world of wise black judges.
And they want to do all they can to make the world into that.
And they don't understand the consequences that will have either.
I don't know how much longer it can spiral for before people...
The sense of dysphoria that people feel, most people, is strong.
It's so strong that you start to get serious kickback.
I don't know how, but it's...
You'll just get increasingly people being very, very angry.
There is kickback.
I mean, there's tons of kickback.
Enough to really...
The other week.
I think there's tons of kickback, but it kind of doesn't go anywhere.
It's always a losing argument.
And I think people are tired of the identity politics, the transgender stuff.
I mean, again, the homosexuality is almost passe at this point.
But it can't go anywhere because the left, if we want to call it that, it's bigger than that, but it is on the ascendancy.
It is creating a religion of itself.
It is a hegemonic force.
And you can kind of yell at it and get mad at it or think it's stupid or make fun of it, but you're ultimately going to lose and you're ultimately...
I mean, yeah, the Trump movement, they raided the Capitol, they went mad.
I mean, I have never seen...
Such public displays, public celebrations of gay pride or transsexuality in any political movement than I saw in the Trump 2020 campaign.
It's just a fact.
They got on board.
They were five years too late or whatever.
And of course the left doesn't like it and it thinks it's fake or it's strategic or whatever.
But there can be a backlash, but that backlash is just always going to lose.
Because it doesn't have that religious component that the left now has.
In the sense that it's not just kind of politically incorrect or whatever.
It is immoral.
You are going to hell.
Symbolically, or maybe even literally in some of their minds, if you question their agenda.
They have the power of belief behind them in the way that the right has the power of the knee-jerk or the backlash.
That ultimately isn't that powerful.
It ultimately comes to heel.
20 years ago, you could say, oh, political correctness is out of control.
It can't get any worse.
Well, they couldn't even imagine where we are.
It can get to the point where it normalizes and tries to render acceptable pedophilia.
That might be the point.
That might be the point.
And that is the next thing.
And there are people pushing for that.
And in much the same way that 20 years ago or 10 years ago, this whole transsexual thing was considered ludicrous and utterly fringe.
That is so now.
And that will be their next, that is the next thing.
And they're starting it, you see it, exposing children to these.
Yes.
And so that, I think, is surely the next thing.
And I think the problem is that Corona has kind of got in the way of their ability to do that.
We've got other concerns.
So if Corona ever goes away, then they can...
Because that's what myself and people were discussing before Corona came along, which was this normalization of child abuse.
And that's what I think is the next...
Because everything is questioned.
You question everything.
You create dysphoria.
And one of the things that they have started to question is the divide between...
You question the divide between male and female, between black and white, between all of these things that make sense of the world and make sense of the world in a useful way.
Well, the next one to do is to question the divide between being an adult and being a child.
And to say, and this is...
What right have you got to tell...
Where do you draw the line between adult and child?
What do you mean by child?
It's a social construct.
You know, I would say that that is the line where it can go no further, but I don't know.
I mean, what is worse or more shocking, child abuse or gender reassignment?
I mean, we're already so far gone that I don't even know.
I mean, I'm not sure that would be the limit.
Liberals have kind of done things in their way of, you could say, normalizing child abuse in this way.
They've already normalized gender reassignment for children, but they've normalized child abuse in the sense of like, well, let's listen to the pedophile and try to think about what he means and so on.
And I think there's some good in that.
I think you should try to understand something.
Even if it is horrifying.
But yeah, I do agree that that is the next frontier.
I mean, that's almost where they have to go, inevitably.
I don't, you know, bestiality?
I don't know.
But, yeah.
Interesting times.
Even in that case, I don't think backlash politics will ever solve it.
Because, again, it's just a backlash.
When is the backlash of the knee-jerk really won out over the power of hegemonic religious belief?
Exactly.
What you said about Trump, that wasn't a backlash with a lot of these people.
That was religious belief.
As misguided as you might think it is.
That was definitely religious.
I agree.
And that's what really shook him up.
I mean, a serious...
I mean, that was also a scam.
I mean, it was this weird...
I mean, yeah.
But I mean, to...
And it never...
QAnon never...
I mean, QAnon was salacious.
And it demonized liberals, but it never really undermined them.
QAnon is a liberal religion at the end of the day.
It's about, you know, freedom and individualism and so on.
It's just a kind of older version of liberalism.
So they think it's right-wing.
I mean that the only way...
So it is a backlash.
The only way to change it is to attack it at its core.
And that means attacking liberalism at its core and also engaging it with your own hegemonic religious belief.
That is the only way to defeat these horrible people.
