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Jan. 1, 2017 - RadixJournal - Richard Spencer
01:26:31
A Current Year to Remember—2016 Edition

Charles Lyons and Andrew Joyce joins Richard to discuss The Current Year That Was and The Current Year To Come. Topics include the UN resolution on Israeli settlements, Hailgate, and the rise of the AltRight. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit radixjournal.substack.com/subscribe

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As you guys can tell, I'm a bit...
I'm getting...
Trump's really kind of...
I'm getting a little skeptical about this guy.
He's pissing me off.
The thing that he's done that has annoyed me most since the nomination and then going on to winning the presidency right up to the present was that tweet that he sent just after John Kerry's speech where he was like, oh, don't worry, Israel.
Things are going to be very different.
When I come into office, there was something very...
It made my skin crawl.
It was just cringe-inducing.
It was so sycophantic in its tone and everything else that it didn't sit well with me at all and it just filled me with all kinds of foreboding.
I agree.
And even if you want to put aside the geopolitical...
Questions regarding Israel and Palestine.
It was a symbol that he was just becoming the conservative movement.
Everything that drives us nuts about conservatives, he was just reaffirming with statements like that.
As if the U.S. government is anti-Semitic and it's only these plucky little conservatives in the Midwest who are sticking up.
For the state of Israel, which is under threat.
And, you know, there was one, Louis Gohmert, who's this just idiotic congressman from Texas.
He went on and he's like, the Palestinians are bullies.
You know, we've got to stand up to those guys.
You know, it's like, you know, I mean, like putting aside like the Jewish question or what have you.
All right.
You have a nuclear armed state in Israel that is a first world.
...techno nation-state with nuclear weapons and its good friends with the most powerful superpower in the world.
And then you have this Arab non-country.
And you're saying, like, those bullies, you know, we've got to...
Yeah, they're bullies.
They shoot off some, like, limp dick bottle rocket into Israel, kill no one, and then Israel does a helicopter strife on a refugee tent city and, like, massacres the whole village.
So it's like, give me a break.
And also, this whole, oh, you know, Obama's bad for Israel.
Obama's probably been...
I think better on the whole Israeli question, but let's be honest, he's not anti-Israeli.
He's not a neocon, which is good.
How can you be, say, better than Obama on Israel without just going full-blown neocon?
I mean, we're already overthrowing the governments in this region still, though it looks like Syria has...
I think the way I would look at it as well is, you know, there are these two aspects of Obama because, I mean, There's this interesting thing.
Steve Saylor wrote a book in 2008 where he, in a way, put Obama on the couch and saw him as a kind of secret black nationalist.
And in Dinesh D'Souza, it was probably 2010, he stole a lot of those ideas.
I'm sure he did.
And he went with that and made Obama about this secret third world revenge and having this daddy complex with his father being Kenyan and having a white mother and growing up in the United States and all this kind of stuff.
And kind of like vicarious nationalism.
The conflicted consciousness of the mulatto who wants to be...
The real African.
And I actually think that psychological portrait is absolutely true.
And I think there is a kernel of truth, and maybe more of a kernel of truth, to the idea, not that Barack Obama is anti-Semitic, I do not believe that, but that Barack Obama sees Israel in his heart of hearts as a white imperial country that is oppressing brown people, and that he doesn't ultimately like it.
But I think in a way, what we've seen with the Barack Obama administration is the limits of his consciousness in office.
At the end of the day, American policy in the Middle East has not fundamentally changed.
Don't tell me it has.
Don't tell me that this is the most anti-Israeli administration we've ever seen.
Don't give me this nonsense.
The policy has not changed a whole heck of a lot.
But I do think that maybe this UN resolution, because it came right at the end of the term, it might have given us a little bit of a glimpse into two things.
A, Obama's consciousness.
And then B, just the fact that Israel has really lost legitimacy among liberal elites.
And that's a long time.
I mean, this has been happening for 40 years.
It's probably started with the new left.
If you go to academia, Israel has lost a tremendous amount of legitimacy.
I think it's lost a tremendous amount of legitimacy, even among the John Kerry types and so on.
And, you know, when Samantha Power, a woman that I can't stand, I mean, a woman I definitely do not admire at all, but I couldn't help but agree with her when she just said, like, let's treat Israel like just another country.
And so I think it does signal something.
It does signal something important that we shouldn't underestimate.
But then we shouldn't obviously become conservative idiots and be like, you know, whoa, this is the worst, the most anti-Semitic government since Hitler!
Because they did a UN non-binding resolution.
That was perfectly reasonable.
This accusation of anti-Semitism is really all they have left, and that's why they're firing it, you know, just willy-nilly at any deviation from this culture that they had worked so hard to develop.
I mean, you look at all these organizations that funded jaunts for American and British and so many other nationalities, all these politicians to go to Israel, and they would receive a very propagandized tour of various sites and a sort of idealized presentation of what was going on in the West Bank and all the rest of it.
They invested in this culture in which it was the norm to always be...
Striving upwards in the sense of, you know, all politicians should be doing their utmost for Israel.
They're always, you know, trying to almost get an elbow up on each other as to who could be the most pro-Israel.
So any deviation from that culture is going to be seen as a huge threat and well out of proportion to the nature of the threat itself.
In the UK, actually, 2016 was a frantic year.
To try, among Jews, Jewish elites and sort of Israeli interests, to cope with what you just described there, Richard, as this creeping disillusionment about Israel within the liberal elites.
And, you know, I think there were like two, maybe three inquiries into anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.
And it all brought about because of this creeping paranoia and people were criticizing Israel.
And of course, you know, in those leftist parties like Labour and just absolutely stock full of the liberal elite, the Jewish interests just went into panic mode.
And, you know, the cry went up of anti-Semitism and it was...
There was nothing but newspaper coverage of these inquiries and their findings for months, months and months.
And, of course, in the end, you're no further on, and these inquiries have kind of ground to a halt, and it's kind of all been put to bed now because Corbyn succeeded and the whole thing really came to nothing.
But, yeah, they're just frustrated.
They can't cope with the collapse in the support.
And the fallback is always just claims of anti-Semitism.
I think the future of Israel does not look good in terms of foreign policy for them or geopolitics.
And you're kind of seeing this on American campuses right now with the rise of the BDS movement.
And it kind of does fall into that third-worldist rhetoric you were stating earlier, is that Jews look white to me.
And Israel, you don't get to line up with the Arabs and Amerindians and Africans.
You're the bad guy.
They're losing out, and also neoconservatism is in its death throes right now.
I don't think it's ever, honestly, I don't think it's ever coming back, primarily because in order to exercise the power that they got to exercise under George W. Bush, They would, one, they have to win the White House, and I just simply don't think a neoconservative platform could have won the electoral map in the way that Donald Trump did.
So I just think that neoconservatism is, it's probably, it's always going to be there, but I just think they are simply not going to be able to exercise power because they won't be able to win with that platform in the Republican Party, and in the Democrat Party, they want nothing to do with neoconservatism.
Yeah.
And also, the base of neoconservatism, I mean, if neoconservatism had a base, I mean, it's not like Paul Wolfowitz was hosting mass rallies and, you know, people were hooting and hollering for Leo Strauss and Irving Kristol or anything like that.
But neoconservatism did have a base in a weird way, and it was evangelical Christians and Christian Zionists.
I mean, two things are happening.
One is that they went for Trump big time.
I mean, they went for Trump at 80% from what I've seen in the exit polls.
And so, you know, clearly amongst these evangelicals, I mean, we might want to criticize them, but I think, you know, even the harshest critics of them on the alt-right would recognize that they often do have very good instincts.
They can just be terribly misguided.
But, you know, they went for Trump.
They recognized themselves as a culture and not so much as an ideology.
Like, it wasn't even a moral majority, as how it was described.
It wasn't even policy issues or hot-button issues like abortion, because clearly Donald Trump doesn't really care that much about abortion.
It was about us as a culture and us as a people, and that's a pretty interesting development and a positive one.
So the neoconservatives have lost their base.
And then the second thing is that evangelical Christians, white Christian America, is declining.
And it's declining, maybe not precipitously, but it's declining at a really rapid rate.
It's declining certainly in terms of legitimacy amongst educated people, amongst young people, you know, atheism, agnosticism is on the rise.
They don't look...
To evangelical Christians as a source of legitimacy, let's just be honest.
But it's also just declining in terms of real numbers.
And the religious right, you know, that had its moment in the late 70s, 80s, probably hit a peak in maybe the George W. Bush administration.
But it's definitely on the decline.
I just don't see neoconservatives.
I think neoconservatives probably do have a bit of a future if they just live in the Democratic Party.
And kind of, like, mask themselves as humanitarian interventionists.
I think that's probably the road they're going to take.
And, you know, we saw that with the Trump election, but I think that's the future of neocons, is humanitarian Democrats.
All with the name Kagan.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I think that's an accurate view of their future.
But anyway, I would say this.
A lot of conservatives distrust the UN, and I agree with that distrust.
I mean, look, the UN was basically a tool of American hegemony.
I think sometimes these conservatives are like, oh, that global institution that's taken away America's power of independence or something.
I mean, I think that's a little bit off.
It was a tool of the powers that won the Second World War, obviously.
So it's a tool of American power.
It spans American power.
But I would say this.
When you look at geopolitical situations, sometimes we keep asking ourselves, why can't we just solve this problem?
Why can't we come together?
The Israeli-Palestinian situation is obvious.
We have been trying to bring people to the table for decades, and it just never works.
There are all these little bright, shining lights of hope, and then they disappear.
And a similar situation you could look at in the North Korea-South Korea-Korean conflict.
And you could ask, why can't they just figure it out?
We have a model to work with, with Germany, and there's a lot of problems there.
It's still not one country, socially and economically, but it obviously worked out.
We did it.
Why can't we do it?
And you have to ask yourself, like, what are the existing structures that are basically just perpetuating the problem?
And, you know, clearly the existing structure perpetuating the North Korea, South Korea problem is the South Korea to a small extent, but it's overwhelmingly the American.
We are basically maintaining a status quo.
That is just, it's not going to work.
I mean, it's a status quo postbellum.
We're maintaining a war in a way.
And it's just, we are maintaining that conflict and we are not allowing them to resolve it.
And if we left, I think there probably would be some bloodshed and there would be some...
But I think they would ultimately resolve that problem in probably a good way.
And I think the same thing you could say about Israel and Palestine.
It is like the UN that's preventing a resolution.
And if the UN stopped playing games with Palestinians and Israelis and they just left and they allowed power politics to take place...
I think that there would ultimately be a resolution.
That obviously there might be a possibility of some kind of, you know, Israelis just went totally genocidal on the Palestinians.
But I actually doubt that they would do that.
I think that there would be some bloodshed, but at the very least you'd reach a solution to the problem, as opposed to this perpetuating the status quo that's shitty for everyone.
And so, yeah, I think in a way my position to that whole thing would be like, look, let's stop funding both sides.
Let's stop moralizing about it at the UN and other places.
And let's let power decide this.
And, you know, obviously it's going to be in Israel's favor, but I would in a way rather that...
They reach a solution with some little Palestinian state or something?
Or sending them back to Jordan?
I don't know.
But just something.
I feel like let's just reach a resolution as opposed to just maintaining this pain for another 50 years.
I suppose the worst case scenario, say you pulled the UN out and any other kind of peacekeeping or monitoring force and you just let the power of politics play out.
I suppose the worst case scenario in that event is that Israel, as you say, was a very really goes genocidal on the Palestinians.
But in that case, Israel plays its hand and is basically exposed to the world for its actions.
So if it does its worst, then we just see it for what it is.
It will stand exposed by its decisions and the culture that operates behind those decisions.
And as you say, we would reach a resolution.
This endless dangling of the the Palestinians in the jaws of the beast.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, if Israel genocided an entire people in 2017 and then continued to maintain its victim status, I think basically at some point people would be like, shut up.
Yeah, there's a lot of chutzpah in Israel.
I just don't know if it would extend that far.
I just don't think they would do that.
Obviously, that's a possibility.
No, I don't think so.
We live in the age of YouTube, and I don't think that would happen.
I think there would be something, maybe sending a lot of people to Jordan, maybe giving them some little state that's not part of their grand, biblical, nonsensical...
I don't know.
It just seems like you have to solve a problem at some point.
Are we going to perpetuate this another fucking half century?
Is the question.
Do we really want to be doing this in 2060?
Talking about a Palestinian state and wringing our hands about some atrocity that Israel just perpetrated.
I would want it to all go away.
As a student of history and as someone who has looked at the pain in the ass that the Jewish diaspora has been for the last 2,000 years or more, when you read back accounts of people writing in the 30s and early 40s or whatever, from a Zionist perspective or sympathetic to Zionism and how they earnestly believed that once the Jews get a state of their own, Everything will just be so much better.
So many problems will be resolved.
And here we are, so many decades after the founding of the State of Israel, and it's like the perennial...
I mean, one of my earliest memories as a youngster, maybe five or six of watching the news on TV, it was something about Israel and Palestine.
It was there.
And I'm sure when I'm on my deathbed and I'm lying in the hospital looking up at the television screen as I'm about to shuffle off this mortal coil, if I'm watching the news, there will probably still be something there.
It's like the endless feature of human history.
Israel, Jews dominating the international scene.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think everyone's kind of tired of it.
Well, anyway, let's do this.
We're getting kind of dark here.
It's a New Year's Eve podcast, so let's look back on the glory that was 2016.
And I think also look forward to what we think is going to happen in 2017 with Trump, and we can make some predictions and so on.
I guess I could just say, wow, just wow.
I mean, 2016 was absolutely insane.
I mean, I don't know how to put it.
I'll just start off by saying this.
I mean, there was so much winning, I did literally get tired of winning.
I always thought, like, oh, we've peaked here.
Like, this is too much or whatever.
And it just kept going.
It was like the kek or the gods were just pushing and pushing and pushing.
And so, I mean, I remember, I think it was at the...
The Ameren conference in 2016 where Ramsey Paul held up a Google chart and he said, oh, look at alt-right.
The Google searches of alt-right are going this high.
And he's like, oh, we've done it.
We've entered.
We've done it.
And that was like, everyone's forgotten that.
That was like the prelude to what happened.
I mean, getting denounced by Hillary Clinton.
Also, just the fact that we did meme Donald Trump into a white nationalist candidate.
That's insane, what we did.
And I don't know.
It's like we really did do that as well.
I don't think, absent the alt-right and all of this energy that we're bringing, I don't think the Trump campaign would be the same.
I think I can imagine an alternative history.
In which the Trump campaign was this kind of like Wall Street...
You know, like Fox News business campaign where he's like, I've got to get in here and I've got to rejig the government so that this is good for business and we're going to lower the corporate tax rates.
Like, I can totally imagine that.
And just this horrible, you know, pro-capitalism campaign.
Instead, Trump became this, like, racialist campaign about, like, are we a nation or are we not?
And that was just amazing.
I mean, you could say, oh, he did that in spite of the alt-right.
The alt-right will bring him down.
No, that is absolutely wrong.
I don't think he would have done it without us.
I don't think it would have taken on the color that it did without the alt-right Twitter and just alt-right people.
And so, yeah, we got denounced by Hillary.
We got denounced by Donald Trump.
I mean, we were...
We just kept pushing.
I mean, again, Hailgate was kind of insane, and I can understand how that offended people.
But at the end of the day, our impact now is global.
I mean, there are hundreds of millions of people that have heard the term alt-right and basically know what we're about.
Well, simple level.
I don't know what to say other than, like, yeah, we've taken some lumps, and as everyone does, there have been some obstacles and some speed bumps along the road, but holy shit!
I mean, that's all I can say about this year.
I mean, we went from, we just, like, slammed on the accelerator, and we went from zero to 60 in one year.
Amazing.
It was.
I mean, it was amazing.
This was our coming out party, I guess you could say.
But it's also our coming out party in a lot of ways because we've been right.
We've had so many terrorist attacks throughout the world that have been easily predictable.
We've had the rise of Black Lives Matter.
And then Donald Trump, when he ran on his immigration campaign, we got to see how...
the rallies like in Chicago or San Jose erupted into violence.
So we've been vindicated every step along the way.
So that gives us credibility.
People who are not like insane leftists can look at us and see how we're growing.
They can be sympathetic to us or they can even join us because we've just been right.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there was one, Scott McConnell wrote this essay about the alt-right.
I used to work for Scott McConnell.
Scott McConnell's a very smart guy, kind of a funny character.
He was a WASP neocon throughout the 80s and much of the 90s.
And then he kind of flipped on them with the bombing in former Yugoslavia.
And then he really flipped on them against the Iraq War.
But anyway, he was saying this thing about Joe McCarthy where it's like, whether you think Joe McCarthy is right or wrong, you know that he is going to stick up for the American people.
And I think it is actually good to build up that kind of credibility, because I don't think, I mean, just looking at conservatives, I don't think anyone can ever believe that they would ultimately defend the white race when push comes to shove, like when our backs are up against the wall, maybe literally.
But I think the alt-right has established itself as this sense of, like, whatever you think about these guys, They're serious and they get it.
And so I think we have established ourselves in the world's mind as we are the ones you're going to probably have to turn to at some point.
I think that one of the...
It's become very apparent to me, even in the last few weeks, just how...
On the edge of mainstream, we now are.
I mean, I remember when the whole Halegate thing exploded, it was all over the news, even in Europe, in the UK and Ireland, it was all over the news.
I actually went to visit my mother, and we were talking about news, and she says, do you know this guy Richard Spencer?
I just laughed.
I said, sit down, mother.
Let's have a conversation.
But, you know, I was driving in the car to work just a few days ago, and I was listening to BBC Radio 4, which is kind of like the highbrow intellectual station that the BBC has.
So they play lots of classical music and have lots of intellectual discussions, mostly from a center-left perspective.
But they had this comedian on, and I can't remember his name.
From the jokes that he was cracking, he wasn't very good.
But he started talking about the alt-right.
And he said to the presenter of this show, he said something like, one of the things that I like about getting up and doing my show is I poke fun at Donald Trump and I poke fun at these alt-right people.
And do you know why I do it?
It's because...
These alt-right people, they don't have a sense of humor, and they can take a joke, and they hate anyone making fun of them.
And I thought, well, first of all, he's got this completely wrong.
He obviously doesn't know much about the alt-right, because I think that we thrive on humor and have a very vibrant culture of humor within our movement.
And that's something I think that we have developed probably only in the last five years or so.
I think when you think kind of back to 1990s, White nationalism or whatever label you want to attach to the antecedents of the alt-right.
It was kind of...
It was humorless.
It was humorless, it was.
It was kind of stuffy.
It was focused on things like Holocaust denial or whatever.
There wasn't much room for humor there.
But we've become...
Exactly.
Andrew Anglin might argue differently on that point.
But we've gotten better at looking at ourselves.
We make fun of ourselves.
I'm slowly but surely coming to grips with some of the internet language and the Twitter interaction.
This is something that I'm pretty new to because I guess I'm a bit more of the intellectual than part of the more...
Humor, culture side of the movement.
But I'm getting used to it and getting to grips with some of the language.
Just things like calling each other spergs, you know?
Or autists and things.
We self-reflect.
And this guy, this comedian, really got it wrong.
And it showed how little he knew because actually I think if we look at it by any kind of objective standard, the left is entirely humorless.
They have so many sacred cows.
They're probably next to Islamists as far as humor goes.
This is an interesting thing that happened in 2016, actually.
The left fully lost its ability to be funny.
I think that's been happening for a little while.
Even if you look at the Jon Stewart case, it was almost symbolic that he retired.
I used to like The Daily Show.
I remember watching it in, say, 2004, 2005, at the height of the Bush era.
And it was like a refreshing relief.
From, you know, Fox News or talk radio bullshit.
You know, it's like he made fun of Bush.
You know, they would do these like wacky photoshops of Bush and Dick Cheney and blah, blah, blah.
And so basically the left can be funny when it's like looking up the skirt of its enemy, you know, when it's like just throwing darts at it or something like that.
But at this point, the left has almost recognized that it can't be funny.
It was so symbolic when Jon Stewart...
He came back, you know, from retirement.
And he was bearded and haggardly looking and this just angry person who was like, you don't own this country!
You know, just deadly earnest and overly serious and just, you know, boring and pretentious.
Just everything bad.
Everything that they associate with, like, the right, they were.
Basically.
And yeah, I mean, it's like you can't, in a way, you can't be funny when you're in power.
Or, I mean, just look at like Keith Olbermann.
I mean, Keith Olbermann has become like unintentionally hilarious.
I mean, I love those resistance videos.
Like, I mean, he did one where he was like, I mean, he's serious.
It's like non-ironic.
I can't believe he's not.
Ironical, but I think he's truly genuine.
He's like, I can remember when we lived in a democracy, but we no longer live in a sovereign United States.
Based on the will of the people of this country, there has been a bloodless coup taken place.
Bloodless for now.
I mean, it's just this...
They are almost terrifyingly earnest in these proclamations.
I was surfing Twitter on the day that Carrie Fisher died, and one of these leftists had tweeted out something like, let's live up to Princess Leia's legacy by smashing a fascist state.
They're so deadly earnest about this.
It's crazy.
But there's no room for humor.
Maybe they will become humor...
I don't know.
It's kind of funny.
I was just thinking about this.
I don't know if they could become humorful again in the age of Trump, because obviously he's in charge and the Republicans are in charge of both houses of Congress.
But I don't know.
I don't see it anymore.
At least what we've seen from them so far, they're just like...
Earnestly crying.
There's a Saturday Night Live sketch that I think was the weekend after Donald Trump was elected, and the girl who plays Hillary Clinton, whom I actually find quite funny, like Kate McKinnon is her name, and I don't know, I'm sure she's some, I think she's like a lesbian, you know, leftist comedian.
I don't care.
I think she's actually pretty funny, to be honest.
But she was like, They opened up Saturday Night Live.
This is a late-night comedy show with her earnestly playing the piano, singing sad songs on the piano, dressed up as Hillary Clinton.
And you were meant to cry.
I don't know.
I think they've kind of...
I don't know.
I don't think they can be funny.
I don't think that they can rediscover it.
And this is the reason why.
Towards the end of that interview that they did on this BBC4 show with this comedian, they actually asked him and they said, you know, what do you think will be the repercussions of your jokes?
And he said, you know, I don't know.
He said, I think that, you know, someone like Bush, you can make fun of him, make fun of him as supporters.
And I think that there's something, there was something there in terms of the left's jokes.
Trump always had the intention of somehow hitting the mark or stinging or registering on some level.
Particularly, there's always an element of condescension there.
Oh, Bush is stupid.
Oh, he can't pronounce nuclear in the correct fashion.
They always relied on some kind of intellectual feeling that by reverse made the leftists feel somehow superior.
But the problem with Trump is he doesn't give a crap.
And, you know, you can make fun of him all you want.
He doesn't care.
In fact, it just riles him up and they'll hit you even harder.
And this comedian at the end of his interview said, you know, on some level, I'm wary of poking this tiger.
You know, he didn't use those words, but that's in effect what he was saying.
And I think that we can learn something like that as a movement also, in that, you know, we don't leave any room for...
For the left to score any kind of points against us.
We don't apologize.
We don't step back whenever they point something out like heel gate or whatever it might be.
Or just anything that they might want to pick on.
We don't register it.
We just don't care.
And that was one of the reasons why I think Trump succeeded was because in an age where Taking backward steps and apologizing and expressing some sort of humility at some point became the norm.
He refused to do any of those things.
And as much as I'm starting to get annoyed or apprehensive about aspects of the Trump presidency that might come to be, that's still something that I kind of respect about him and that we can learn from.
Yeah.
If I had apologized for Hailgate, my career would be over.
Yeah, I agree.
Because I would have demoralized everyone.
I would have demoralized myself.
I would have demoralized the entire movement.
It would have been a disaster.
And I'm not just saying that I strategically didn't apologize.
I would never apologize for that because nothing wrong was done.
And I think it...
Ultimately, it was good.
I mean, look, I get the arguments that, like, oh, you shouldn't play into their game.
Like, look, fine, that's a legitimate perspective.
But I think Hailgate demonstrated that we don't play by their moral rules.
You know, I mean, the left can raise a clenched fist.
The left can wear a Che Guevara t-shirt.
And yet the right is always, like, wringing its hand and crying about, you know, the Hitler and the Second World War and fascism and the Confederacy.
And I think it's just kind of good to say, like, you know, fuck you.
We're not, like, we're not going to be...
Look, we're not going to...
Be LARPing Nazis.
That is truly stupid.
And anyone who does that, I'll be like, knock it off.
You're being an idiot.
However, we're also not going to play by your moral rules.
We can have fun.
We can be high energy.
We can be a little outlandish.
And we can get a little crazy.
Yeah, deal with it.
I think the fact that Donald Trump punches back and the fact that we punch back That's going to vindicate the left because they're used to beating up on the cucky conservative punching bag who just, oh, I'm so sorry for being a bad person and having, like, the wrong opinions.
Well, the fact that we punch back vindicates to them and it feeds their narrative that...
Look, it really is a fascist revolt because they literally think...
I once had a conversation with a friend of mine.
She's just some woman with stupid opinions.
This was over the gay wedding cake thing a few years back.
I'm like, you really think that this has gone too far?
She's like, what's next?
Are they going to put them in ovens?
I'm like...
They literally think that fascists are lurking in the shadows and that any time the right wing succeeds at doing anything, that, oh my god, the fascists are here.
You know, it's Darth Vader's arrived and we gotta get to the rebel alliance.
We gotta stop them, you know?
It vindicates their narrative.
They literally think that, like...
We're just right around the corner and we're going to come get them.
And so this is also going to, I think, play out with the left-wing humor.
Only because they will make fun of Donald Trump for being stupid.
Let's be honest, he's kind of an easy target in terms of how he talks and his behavior.
You can make a caricature out of that alone.
We saw what the Saturday Night Live people were doing, and I think it's funny because that is how he is.
He's this big, ridiculous man.
Retweeting high schoolers?
That was actually fairly funny when he was like, I was at a life sketch where he's at a national security briefing, and they're like, Mr. President, what are you doing?
And he's like, oh, I just retweeted this guy.
Really great guy.
He's some high school kid in Ohio.
It's kind of funny because it's true.
But anyway, go ahead.
But I think that it's going to vindicate their narrative.
And in a way, the political left in the future going forward under Trump and with our rise, which I also think is going to be happening as well, they're going to feel like they're fighting the revolution, like they're Luke Skywalker.
They literally believe it.
Yeah.
They want us.
At some level.
At some dark level.
They need us.
They need us.
You could say that if Hillary had won, Richard Spencer and Kevin MacDonald, we'd just be locked up.
They would take away our ability to even use any system involved in the government.
We couldn't even have a checking account.
They'd just crack down on us.
I guess I can see that.
I mean, I think that was a possibility.
But remember, it was Hillary Clinton who used the first, well, maybe not the first politician, but the first politician to have a, because I think Paul Ryan might have said alt-right.
He might have been the first politician to say alt-right.
But Hillary was the first one to just base an entire half-hour-long speech on this.
She was a presidential candidate, the leading presidential candidate.
We call this out by name.
And, you know, at some level they want and need us.
And, I mean, this is the kind of contradiction of liberalism.
It's the contradiction of tolerance, which it can't tolerate intolerance.
It has to have this boogeyman, this kind of, you know, invisible center around which liberalism orbits.
And that center is...
Fascism, you could say.
Not actual fascism, but just fascism as a myth, as a boogeyman, as a monster.
And so, yeah, they need us, and they're going to continue to promote us.
And I think at some level we should negotiate being that monster without actually being it.
I mean, again, obviously we don't want to become LARPing, you know.
We don't want to engage in historical reenactment.
That is going nowhere.
People will laugh at us, and it's stupid on so many levels.
But I do think that they've been craving our opinions.
They've been craving a wow, just wow moment, where it's not Lindsey Graham saying, oh, we want what y 'all want.
Yeah, we just want it legal.
We want more immigrants.
They actually want someone to say, no.
I don't care if these immigrants are intelligent and wonderful people who are going to improve the economy.
They're not coming here.
They want that.
And so, yeah, I think in that sense, like, the alt-right's rise is just inevitable because all of these instruments of power want us to rise.
Just on that note, a friend of mine told me a couple of weeks ago, he's kind of a semi-prominent figure in the alt-right in England, and he contacted me and he said that he had been approached by one of the major TV channels in England.
Because they wanted to make a kind of just a short documentary show on him, maybe like just a one-off or like a two-parter.
And the explanation that they gave to him as to wanting to do this all of a sudden was they said that they needed a boogeyman.
They needed someone in the public imagination right now who could act as a boogeyman figure.
And Farage, Nigel Farage, didn't quite cut it.
They needed someone a bit more to the right of him.
And the conservatives aren't really conservative because they're not really conserving anything.
And, you know, liberalism, as the saying goes, needs something to liberate people from.
And they needed a boogeyman.
So the left is actively seeking us out.
We need to be careful in how we negotiate that, as you say, into not becoming a cartoon bad guy or a boogeyman, but at the same time to occupy some of that mental space in a way that we can make use of it.
Whether that's something like Hellgate or whatever it takes to occupy some of that media space, we need to do it.
This morning, I At the start of the day, I just thought, I'll just pluck a book off the shelf.
Sit and have a read for a little while.
It's New Year's Eve.
I'm going to relax.
I ended up picking off the essays and aphorisms of Arthur Schopenhauer, which is a major black pill.
So I decided to cheer myself up.
A major black pill.
So I decided to cheer myself up.
And I just went on.
I went on just a series of kind of leftist newspapers and the amount of opinion pieces that are there right now.
They view 2016 as a horrible year, as almost the end of the world.
And they're trying to reassure each other emotionally.
And saying, you know, the right is ascendant, but it's not omnipotent.
And, you know, there are some reasons for hope that we can cling to.
They are pearl clutching and grasping each other for comfort right now.
And that's because we have come in, we've occupied some of the space.
We haven't messed it up.
You know, Richard Spencer's name is not conjuring up demonic images, for example, in the way that David Duke's might, with all due respect to David Duke, but you're of the same...
now, but not in the same, you're not dipping into the same negative territory that there might be.
And, you know, we were talking about denunciations earlier about Trump denouncing us and Hillary denouncing us.
No one got more denunciations than David Duke in 2016.
People were queuing up for that.
But And we are occupying, I think, in my opinion, good space, useful space at the minute.
And I think that can be grown with correct decision making.
And if we keep doing what we're doing in 2017, we can continue to...
Yeah.
I also think that a lot of these divorces that have occurred recently, and which were accelerated or maybe you could say catalyzed by Hailgate, I think that these were just all basically inevitable and that we shouldn't ever have been surprised.
And I'm referring to the Cernovich-type people who, I mean, at least from what I can tell with Cernovich and those type people, I think they're going to basically, I don't, I think they're going to probably pull back from a full-throated denunciation like, you are absolute evil.
I am the opposite of you kind of thing.
I think they're going to probably go halfway.
You know, we won't be invited to the deplorable, you know, gasp.
But I think they actually will kind of have a little bit of a playing footsie with us.
Which I think is also something we should just negotiate.
I think that is better than being totally ignored, which was the case with the conservative movement forever, basically.
So I do think that that's a positive phenomenon.
I think the fact that we just kind of, like, in a way, we made people like Bill Mitchell just kind of show their hand as just a cheerleader, basically.
Like, there's nothing Trump can do that he will criticize, effectively.
I mean, I'm sorry.
I mean, you know, he's just going to apologize and apologize.
He's a Trump fan.
He believes in all this MLK colorblind bullshit.
And so just, you know, like, we never should have been in the same boat.
It was never going to work.
Hillgate just accelerated this divorce, but I think the divorce is fine because it's like we're known, we are, we do, I agree, I mean, again, with all respect to David Duke, I mean, he, you know, it was a little too easy to criticize him because of the Klan thing,
and I understand why he did that, and it's not his fault, and I don't think that it is, you know, moral to define David Duke by the Klan, but the alt-right still is, It's new, it's fresh, it's young, it's more ambiguous, it's humorful, it has a different vibe from that older version of the right, and I think that's good.
I think even David Duke would probably agree with everything I just said.
And so, you know, this is where we are, and we need to be our own group.
I think the worst thing in the world...
Would have been for us just to descend into the alt-light.
I do think the alt-light is a...
I'm still of the opinion that the alt-light is a net positive phenomenon.
And I know, I'm sure there are a ton of people who disagree with that.
But I do think that I would rather have them being popular than the conservative movement.
I mean, for me, that's just an easy...
So, you know, that is better.
So I do think it's a net positive along with the negatives.
But the fact is, no one is co-opting the alt-right.
The alt-right is not going to be the Tea Party, because we're not just a bunch of wishy-washy people.
The alt-right has been defined.
And it is an identity movement.
Race is real.
Race matters.
Race is the foundation of identity.
We are willing to ask questions that other people aren't, they are not willing to go there.
And this is not going away.
So, yeah, I think we've kind of run a gauntlet and we've won.
We weren't co-opted by the alt-white, we weren't co-opted by Trump, we weren't co-opted by the GOP, but then we also maintained our edgy cool factor as well.
So yeah, that's what I think has happened.
But all these divorces and getting denounced by Bill Mitchell or Mike Cernovich going away.
I mean, look, that was all inevitable.
I probably would have thought that that would have happened a little bit later.
It instead happened in 2016.
But who cares?
I think the divorces are a good thing as well.
I mean, I haven't read into the Cernovich business in a great deal.
One of the things that kind of just sticks in my jaw about it anyway is just how Cernovich has been given so much airtime, even if he decides to come out and signal against the alt-right and everything else that he's been doing.
As far as I can tell, he himself has not done that much other than produced this book, The Gorilla Mindset, which is one of these...
Which is the greatest book ever written.
Keep that in mind.
It's one of these curious books that is supposed to tell you how to be a man, and I guess it's always been my philosophy that if you need a book to tell you how to be a man, the book's probably not going to work as far as getting you to that point.
I don't think that Cernovich could be regarded as any kind of intellectual heavyweight.
I don't think he even is very well versed in our ideology or why we hold many of the positions that we do.
So I don't understand the weight that I suppose is attributed to his opinion on us.
But I guess that's by the by, it's part of the internet age, it's part of the Twitter age, I guess.
Maybe Twitter followers count for something and all the rest of it.
How much, you know, real-world impact some of that still translates into, I'm not so sure, but I guess it's, you know, because so much of our existence and our politics is still conducted online, I suppose there's some merit to it for that reason alone.
But it doesn't really concern me.
What concerns me is that the alt-rights ideas, as you described it being defined, that they remain intact.
Our focus at the end of the day is very simple.
We want to continue as a people.
We want our cultures, and there are several cultures within our group as a people, that they continue to flourish, that we have a future, and that we assert ourselves unapologetically.
And I think if we stick with those priorities, we will eventually succeed.
And the more divorces of ne 'er-do-well characters who disagree with any of those principles, the better.
Well, I think also the alt-light, and I have said this, I think it's the alt-light that is in danger of collapse and not the alt-right.
Because the alt-light is...
Two things are going on with the alt-light.
The alt-light is playing this little game.
It's walking a tightrope where it wants to, in a way like...
Take the energy of the alt-right, of the edginess, the fearlessness, the willing to go there-ness.
It wants to channel that, but then it doesn't want to go too far.
And so, I mean, this is the kind of thing with, like, the deplorable.
And in some ways, I'm shocked that people are even paying attention to the deplorable.
Because it's like, look, these guys are just having a party.
Like, who cares?
But at some level, it actually is emblematic, and it is newsworthy.
These guys are going to say, oh, we're all about free speech.
We're the bad boys of the right.
You can say anything with us.
We're crazy.
We're crazy, man.
Watch out.
You don't know what we're going to do.
We're crazy.
But then at the end of the day, they have to engage in thought policing.
And whatever you want to say about Baked Alaska or...
Or whatever.
That was thought policing.
They are censoring free speech, and they have every right to do that.
But it shows where they are, and it shows why that is just not going to work.
They're going to either have to become colorblind conservative doofuses, or they're going to have to become the alt-right.
The alt-right doesn't work, in my opinion.
And it won't.
You know, I wish them the best.
I'm not as hostile towards the alt-light as some people are.
It's just my perspective on them, but it's not going to work.
And then the other thing about the alt-light is that it's a kind of collection of personal brands.
And I think that's where you were getting, Andrew, before with Cernovich.
He has a huge Twitter following.
He produces a ton.
He has a certain charisma and all this kind of stuff.
And Milo is the same way.
But at the end of the day, they're like personal brands that don't have anywhere to go.
It's about Milo.
It's about Cernovich.
It's not really about a broader movement.
I have my own personal brand, you can say.
I have my own style and look and what have you, but it's about the alt-right.
It's not just purely about me.
I exist within the alt-right.
My personal brand is all about the movement.
Cernovich and Milo, what movement is there?
There's nothing.
It's just like we like these personalities for whatever reason.
And so, yeah, I think both of those guys are going to probably jump on another wave.
You know, Milo jumped on Gamergate, then he jumped on Trump and the alt-right, and now there's going to be some other wave in 2017 or 2018.
Both of those guys are going to jump on it, and we're probably not going to hear from them again.
Yeah, I agree.
I think that's why Hailgate was actually...
Perfect.
It was brilliant.
I've told you this before, that it separated the wheat from the chaff.
It's like you're either with us or against us.
You pretty much gave a little wink and a nod and did something extremely edgy.
And you're like, let's see where the cards fall.
And then half the people are like, we're with you.
And then the other half of the people are clutching their pearls.
We basically did a battering ram and raided the American right wing, and we got rid of the neocons and the coxervatives, and now what's left is us and the alt-light movement, and so they've become the new coxervative wing, essentially, because we're not afraid of being politically incorrect, whereas they are.
So at the end of the day, there's going to be some issue that they're just going to be too afraid to talk about, and we're going to call them out on it, and they're going to look like fools, and then that'll just bring more people to us.
So that's how this is going to work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I totally agree.
They're the new cockservatives.
They're the new cocks.
We should just try to be nice at least once.
Like, we've ruined enough people's lives.
You know, the alt-right.
Let's...
No.
No!
We're gonna destroy them all.
Our bloodlust knows no bounds.
But, uh...
Anyway, do you want to...
Yeah, I guess we can maybe shift to, uh...
2017.
Um...
Yeah.
It's kind of funny.
Basically, the whole year, I think the time around the holidays from Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's, we take a break as a culture.
We inhale.
We relax.
We don't work as hard.
It's Yuletide.
We're kind of hanging out.
thinking about things.
But I do think that we can't always...
You really can't predict what's going to happen.
If I had said...
If I had made a prediction at this time of year in 2015 and said, we will be...
Denounced by Hillary Clinton by name.
I will make world news.
The MPI conference will be worldwide news.
People would be like, you're insane.
Get out of town.
But we did it.
Maybe I should just hesitate to make a prediction.
Although, maybe another thing we could say is that maybe 2017 will be a quieter year.
But it will be a more important year.
We're going to be really building up our movement.
And it's going to be kind of inherently less intense because there's not an election on.
But it's going to be maybe much more important because we're going to establish ourselves.
Anyway, those are just kind of my thoughts going forward.
I would say about Trump, my thoughts going forward, you guys can pick up on this and run with it.
I think Trump is actually going to have a very, very difficult time.
I think I would predict that there is going to be a bit of a revolt amongst the conservatives.
I mean, we're already seeing it in terms of the immigration stuff and even the wall.
And, you know, Trump is seemingly in total power by having both houses of Congress.
I still don't think they see him.
I'm talking about the conservatives.
I still don't think they see him as legitimate.
I still don't think they want to ultimately be a nationalist and populist movement.
And so he's going to have a huge amount of trouble.
I don't want to make financial predictions, but look, we haven't had a big stock market crash since 2008.
And so it's got to happen in the next, say, two years.
And it might very well happen in 2017.
And, you know, it's just these things are actually cyclical and predictable.
And that's going to be hard.
I really wish a stock market crash would have happened in 2016 because everyone would have been mad and they would have just like, let's change parties, let's take a new course.
Instead, it's going to probably happen in Trump's first term.
So this is my general outlook.
I think Trump is going to face a lot of obstacles.
I think it's going to be very hard.
I think he's going to struggle to gain legitimacy, not just amongst liberals and among the civil servants and among academia and public schools, blah, blah, blah, and the media, of course.
I think he's going to struggle to have legitimacy among Republicans.
So that is my outlook for Trump.
Mine would be broadly similar.
I can see him being very successful, particularly when it comes to immigration and getting any kind of meaningful proposals through Congress.
I think it's going to be a quieter year overall.
When I look back on 2016, this time last year, we were all...
Especially in Europe, there was kind of a lingering cloud hanging over from the Paris attacks, which occurred in November 2015.
And then from that, we kind of went straight into the New Year's Eve sex attacks in Cologne and in several other cities across Germany.
And I remember at that point, there was a real foreboding about how the whole year was going to pan out.
And it ended up panning out, very unfortunately indeed, with...
There were a series of terror attacks across Europe, all kinds of antagonisms building up under that.
And I think that by the time David Cameron had announced that there was going to be an EU referendum in the UK in February, that there was this kind of underground feeling that Brexit could happen.
It wasn't a huge surprise to me that it did.
It was one of those earth-shaking events.
Just like Trump being elected, that it's going to be hard to beat, if I can phrase it like that, in terms of really momentous events happening in 2017.
In a lot of ways, I think Brexit's going to be just like Trump, in the sense that a lot of the optimism that accompanied the victory itself isn't going to be...
necessarily reciprocated with events or with results.
Brexit has been legally challenged in the courts.
I think it will eventually go through unscathed and there will be the triggering of the necessary articles for the UK to officially and formally leave the EU.
I don't think that's going to bring any of the results that people voted.
Brexit was a vote about immigration and gaining control over national borders and looking out for the interests of the native British peoples.
But, you know, Brexit isn't going to deliver that.
And I think that the British people and so many other nationalities of peoples across Europe who think that leaving the EU will be the answer to all of their ills, I think they need to abandon that idea.
And there might be some truth in that also for Americans when it comes to Trump, in that voting for this kind of civic nationalist politics, voting for these kind of catch-all panaceas that you think is going to happen, isn't going to deliver.
And what's necessary is a much deeper cultural and certainly on an individual level shift to ideas about identity, about looking at who you are.
What do you want for your children?
And to start voting, or at least participating in politics along those lines.
But it's difficult to educate the average voter on those issues, especially when they're fed very simplified and simplistic narratives about what voting for Trump will do.
Oh, he'll build the wall.
Voting for Brexit, we'll have control of our borders again.
It's really not that simple.
Yeah, and maybe, in a way, Trump has to fail for us to ultimately succeed.
I mean, it's...
You know, you can't...
We can't just revive 1984.
And I don't mean Orwell's 1984.
I mean the 1984 that actually happened, the kind of, you know, mourning in America 1984, the synth pop 1984.
You know, it's just, we can't, we're not going to be able to go back.
And I do think that's what the Trump movement is about.
I mean, maybe in Trump's mind.
It is about going back a few decades.
And it is inherently conservative.
Maybe this kind of thing has to fail for the alt-right to ultimately rise.
And just to say that, look, none of this is enough.
We're going to have to become much more radical.
We're going to have to stop farting around about...
Immigration and what that is.
I mean, I think in a way we need to overcome the whole immigration issue.
I mean, look, we stop all immigration tomorrow.
I mean, I'm talking about the United States perspective, but this is increasingly becoming the European perspective.
Look, if we stop all immigration right now...
We will still become a minority white country by, I don't know, say 2070, 2060.
I mean, we will have basically delayed the inevitable by 15 years or whatever.
Who cares at some level?
We've got to start thinking of new and radical solutions.
We've got to start thinking about them at the very least.
And yeah, I think maybe Trumpism kind of has to...
Has to fail for people to start thinking like that.
And I don't know.
I mean, it is the alt-right that's going to do that.
I mean, the conservative...
And this is just a kind of add-on to my prediction.
I mean, the conservative movement...
Is basically going to enact the so-called autopsy of the 2012 campaign, where it's like, ah, we need to be lighter, friendlier, we need to reach out to Hispanics.
We'll reach out to them on the basis of capitalism and family values.
Good luck with that.
But I think they're going to try to become goofier and goofier, and it's just going to become more and more apparent that the alt-right is necessary and that we need identity politics.
I think that I share similar views on the future of Donald Trump as you all.
I think that He's going to face a lot of resistance, but given the nature of Donald Trump, I think the resistance he faces will embolden him.
So he's definitely not going to go down without a fight.
I do think that he will not be able to carry out as much of his agenda that he wants.
And I think that...
Americans are going to get their first lesson in the nature of the managerial state that you can't just elect a king and he's going to fix everything.
There's this massive bureaucracy and there's lots of private and public sector actors that constitute all of the power structures in our society.
And as Jazz Hand says, whenever they're selecting the heads of the departments, that they seem to be recycling the same people.
And that's true, because in order to run the...
Department of Defense, you need someone who comes from this class of people that you're trying to get rid of.
You can't pick shitlord Pepe1488 off of Twitter and make him the Secretary of State.
You need to find someone who's a politician, a corporate CEO, a banker, a bureaucrat, someone who's already part of this managerial class that you're trying to overthrow and topple.
So, the executive branch is very large and very powerful, and some of the people that Donald Trump has selected are kind of, they're on board, like Jeff Sessions, for example, they're on board with his agenda.
But not all of them are going to be.
And certainly the Republican Party, I wouldn't rely on them for anything.
But they're going to be a problem.
The Democrats will surely be a problem.
The media is going to be a problem.
Academia is going to be a problem.
And it's going to be literally Donald Trump and a handful of people trying to fight off the rest of the managerial state and try and...
I think some things he'll be able to do, but I think it won't be enough.
People are going to witness a very interesting stay of affairs over the next four years when Donald Trump does try to push his immigration through, and he is met with all kinds of resistance, not just from political parties, but the bureaucracies themselves.
Oh, yeah, right.
I mean, you have to execute these orders, and it's not like Donald Trump himself can do this.
Yeah, no, that's absolutely the case.
Do you think Donald Trump would make a push for limiting legal immigration, or do you think he's going to basically do this kind of false dawn of maybe DAWN, D-O-N?
This kind of false dawn of building a massive wall for billions of dollars and deporting hundreds of thousands of convicted felons, but then increasing legal immigration.
My prediction is that he might do something like the latter, and that really bothers me.
I don't know if he'll increase legal immigration.
I think he'll get...
Part of it.
I just have to imagine that the wall is going to be part of it.
If he doesn't get the wall, then he'll be viewed as a massive failure, even by his own supporters.
So I think the wall is coming, and I think he'll definitely round up the most unsavory illegal immigrants they can find, the rapists, the drug dealers.
As for, I believe he proposed a 10-year moratorium, or maybe that's what Ann Coulter said in her book, Adios America.
It was that there was supposed to be an immigration moratorium that's going to go along with this.
I don't think he's ever proposed that.
I think Ann Coulter might have done that, and Richard Spencer might have said things like that.
But I've never heard that from Trump.
I don't know if legal immigration will increase, but I don't see it decreasing necessarily either.
And it's not because...
Well, I don't know.
The thing is, we don't really know what Donald Trump...
We just kind of trust him.
We don't know what he is really going on in his head.
We don't know what they talk about at the dinner table, if he sounds like us or if he just sounds like a businessman.
He's like, I just want really good people here, you know, like the best people.
So we don't even know what he believes.
But I do think the one positive out of facing that resistance...
That will embolden him and that will embolden his supporters and kind of fire up the populism that we kind of need.
We need to have a populist revolt.
That's the only way you're going to dismantle or even attempt to dismantle this political system.
It's just a bunch of angry people making demands.
That's the only way you're going to do it because otherwise it's business as usual.
I think we'll know that our ideas are really starting to gain some traction when a discussion about legal immigration starts to become at least more commonplace.
I know that Richard has raised this point several times in the media interviews that he's done, and I think that that's absolutely crucial and so, so important because it's...
It's legal immigration that's killing us, basically.
Whether it's Germany taking in 1.3 million refugees, or whether it's the fact that the United States at the minute currently has more than 46.6 million people of foreign birth within its borders, most of whom got there with the paperwork.
This is a huge problem, and the conversation definitely needs to move away from the criminal aspect of it to a kind of identity, racial, ethnic aspect of it, because we can be fully wiped out with...
Legal immigration.
If the government, I mean, look at the conservative government in the UK.
I mean, it's going under the conservative label, but immigration increased by a huge amount under the conservatives as opposed to the Labour Party, which preceded them.
And that was with legal immigration, you know?
So it's a horrific problem.
Yeah, and also just if you think about the electoral aspect of all this thing, I mean, look, Trump was an identity candidate.
He was a populist candidate.
He was an overtly nationalist candidate.
You know, America first, I'm going to stick up for you, all this kind of stuff.
Maybe not a racial nationalist candidate, but he was the last stand of implicit white identity, so to speak.
But, yeah, so that's what he was.
But keep in mind, I mean, he had an electoral college victory, which is remarkable.
I don't know anyone who predicted that.
I certainly didn't.
I predicted that he would win on Twitter, and I predicted that it would be close, but I don't think anyone I know predicted this, how it would happen, which is remarkable.
But let's remember, I mean, how did he win some of these states?
By, like, 10,000, 20,000 votes?
Like, winning Michigan?
Let's keep in mind that four years from now, so many of these people who voted for him will literally be dead.
And there are going to be millions upon millions of people who are either new immigrants or who are going to be registered, people who are here legally but haven't been registered yet.
Maybe there will be an amnesty.
I don't know.
I don't think so, but there might be.
But just that fact alone, I mean, God, I'm sorry.
I'm not meaning to blackmail people.
I'm actually meaning to say the opposite.
I'm saying that we're going to rise.
But let's keep this in mind.
There could be a big wipeout four years from now just for that fact alone.
So, yeah.
Yeah, it's a bit of a black pill, but there's a silver lining in all these black pills, and that is that the civic nationalist right basically needs to exhaust all of its potentialities before people really start considering what we have to say in a big way.
Yeah.
And I think we moved, you know, I would say that we're moving closer and closer towards race.
You could say, because the religious right has now been exhausted, I would say officially.
I mean, look, they got Mike Pence or whatever, but they don't have legitimacy.
All of these, you know, 80% of evangelicals voted for a, you know, thrice-divorced, pro-choice, womanizing, pussy-grabbing Manhattanite.
You know, I mean, so...
Look, they didn't elect Jerry Falwell.
They didn't elect Ted Cruz, who totally spoke their language and stuff like that.
So, in a way, we've seen the end of the religious right.
It started in the late 70s, it's now over.
And I think we might need to see the end of the civic nationalist right as well.
And we've just got to play this out.
But we keep getting closer.
To race.
I mean, that is where the arrow of history is pointing.
And so we just need to, I don't know, just stay true to ourselves.
We need to navigate this landscape where we end, but we just need to keep pushing.
And not get caught up in some kind of false pragmatism.
Like, oh, if we just articulate an anti-amnesty proposal this way, we'll thread the needle and all liberals will like it or something.
No.
Those guys have never done it.
All these kosher immigration reformers, if these people have ever accomplished anything, I would maybe listen to them.
But they don't.
They have no impact.
And we do.
That shitlord1488 on Twitter has more impact than NumbersUSA.
I'm sorry.
No compromise.
Just be ourselves.
Become who we are, so to speak.
Anyway, are you guys doing it?
I'm having a quiet New Year's Eve.
I always believe New Year's Eve is for amateurs, to be honest.
People want to be like, Woo!
New Year's Eve!
It's like, look, guys, I like relaxing.
Having a nice eggnog.
I don't think I've had a real true eggnog until I just made one last night for my wife and me.
And, you know, whenever I've had an eggnog, I've been at some Christmas party where it's just this big, like, it's like this huge bowl and it's just a big dessert.
You know, it's just, like, gross, store-made.
You know, they get, like, store-made eggnog and, like, I don't know, pour vodka in there.
It's just awful, like, sugary nonsense.
But I actually made a true eggnog.
It's bourbon, brandy, some...
Cherry liqueur, a little bit of milk to top it off.
What else was in there?
Shaken over ice.
I mean, it's a really good cocktail.
And a whole egg.
So you just put a raw egg into your cocktail.
And it's really good.
So that's what I like to do on New Year's Eve or Christmas.
It's like, take it easy, maybe have a little glue vine.
Eggnog.
Maybe take a little walk and think about the future or something like that.
That's what I like.
These partying kind of things.
It's for amateurs, in my opinion.
We're all just, we're all that post, well, on 30 or just post 30 stage now, so we're all, we've left, that's degenerate to us now.
We are firmly past that.
Yeah, where you go into the city and do jello shots and make out with some Hispanic girl from Queens.
Yeah, no.
I want to hear more about what you did in your 20s, not Richard.
I didn't do that, exactly.
No, I didn't do that.
No, I certainly was...
More when I was in my early 20s or just at college, it was like New Year's Eve.
You had to be crazy.
You had to go out and you had to go to some stupid bar where a bunch of...
Horrible people are dancing around.
Yeah, I've certainly done that, but it's just not my bag anymore.
Now is not the time for partying.
Well, I don't know.
I think we should party a little bit.
We had a great year, and I think the future's going to be great as well.
So I will be going to a party tonight with some fellow TRS people that I've met through the pool parties.
So I'll be going there.
Also, it's actually my birthday today, so I always celebrate every year.
Wow.
Happy birthday.
I didn't know that.
Thank you.
That is fun.
So in the Midwest, am I doxing you by saying you're from the Midwest?
You can just say the Midwest.
Okay, that's fine.
So that's interesting that you have, like, this is also a really important development that we have, like, these kind of communities that exist now.
That's great.
Well, I will be closer to Spencer tier in terms of pausing and reflecting and sitting with my wife, get the kids to bed and reflect on a good year and some interesting new developments for me too, obviously, with editing Redix and what have you.
So I will be making plans and also reflecting on the year that was.
And enjoying myself.
That is definitely awesome.
There will be some partying.
I'll be back on the East Coast in probably early to mid-January, though I will not be attending the deplorable.
Let's just say that there's some other things going on.
Some toast will be made.
Some hails will be.
We'll be hailing many things.
Yes.
But anyway, yeah, we'll put a bookmark in it.
Yeah, I mean, I'll also make this announcement.
I mean, we're basically kind of thinking about making this a regular thing where we have a...
We have a podcast with Andrew and Charles and we talk about the week.
I think people like this.
I'll probably still do my podcast style where I'll invite probably one person on and we'll talk about an issue or something.
And I definitely want to do some more movie.
Pop culture podcast and all that kind of stuff.
But yeah, we're going to try to do this if it goes well, and I think it will.
But I think it will be good just to have, you know, if we can crank out 50 of these or so and just converse about what's happened every week.
I think that would be a great thing.
So onwards and upwards.
Talk to you guys soon.
All right, Richard.
Been a pleasure.
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