RadixJournal - Richard Spencer - Hailgate

Nov. 29, 2016 - RadixJournal - Richard Spencer

01:09:56

Hailgate

Mike Enoch of The Right Stuff joins Richard to discuss “Hailgate,” the 2016 NPI Conference, the trajectory of the Alt Right, and more. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit radixjournal.substack.com/subscribe

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	Hail Enoch, how are you?
	I'm pretty good, how are you?
	I've just kind of been through an emotional rollercoaster, to be honest, but I am doing well.
	It's a combination of exhaustion, elation, some genuine fear, to be honest, about being attacked, some feeling that...
	I had triggered the world, and the whole world hates me.
	But then also, just a sense where I am right now, which is I've gotten some rest, and I'm ready to go.
	So that's where I am.
	That's good, yeah.
	I was wondering if you had to...
	Shoot Antifa, but I suppose not.
	Which I guess in the long run is probably a good thing.
	I mean, maybe.
	Defense.
	Yeah.
	Antifa.
	I, of course, do not endorse any sort of violence.
	I was talking purely in terms of illegal self-defense.
	No, I would absolutely only engage in violence in that context.
	But yeah, I definitely...
	The thought crossed my mind that I might be having foul-smelling, screaming, horribly tattooed people with blue hair barging in.
	Facial piercings.
	Yes, multiple facial piercings, but nothing like that's happened.
	Well, I think in the other place where you live, maybe that doesn't really happen.
	Or they maybe understand that, hey, you don't know who in this place has a gun.
	In Montana, everyone has a gun.
	It's not that you don't know, you do know.
	You do know that everybody...
	I don't think that's going to happen.
	Again, and I would say this...
	We obviously, we are generating so much attention at this point that I do feel like we, well, maybe this will change in four or five years or something, but at least for this foreseeable future window, we cannot publicly meet in a private venue.
	Anymore.
	And I think in a way that's sad.
	For instance, a year ago, we had like 175, 185 people at the MPI conference, and we actually did meet at a steak restaurant, and that actually went fine.
	There was nothing from what I can know.
	We actually did hire some security, but everything was fine.
	No doxing, no antifa protests.
	They just focused on the day of.
	And even the day of, we only had like a half.
	Yeah, I remember.
	There was three people there when I walked through the door.
	And it was the least intimidating people you can imagine, really, frankly.
	At one point, Daryl the Barrel might try to eat someone, but until that happens, it was just a bunch of people shooting a silly string.
	We're at a new level.
	What happened with one person getting punched in the face?
	I heard he was kicked in the face, too.
	That is just totally beyond the pale.
	A woman, Emily Euclid, was attacked.
	I was attacked, although not in a...
	I mean, it was in a vile manner, but not in a way that I was ever physically threatened.
	I heard about this.
	That's why you were wearing only your vest at that point.
	We were saying you should have had a Bane mask at that point.
	I think we might have to do that going forward.
	At least there's going to be memes of those pictures with you in a Bane mask.
	Flexing muscles with a Bane mask.
	I hope so.
	If TRS doesn't create those memes, then they need to evaluate their purpose.
	Yes, exactly.
	I was sprayed by this.
	I don't even know what the fuck it was.
	I don't know if I was Yeah, well, I mean, they've always wanted to, and what I found remarkable, and...
	What really kind of, to me, drives home, and if anybody doesn't understand the concept of a narco-tyranny, that night was a narco-tyranny in action.
	I wasn't there.
	We had a chat going, and some people were there, some people weren't, and people were up-to-the-minute reports on things.
	I was like, in a perfect world, we could just shoot these people, frankly.
	I'm not advocating for that, because obviously.
	It's ridiculous that people can behave like this.
	And this is a narco-tyranny in action.
	I mean, these people, you were all well-dressed, well-behaved clients of this restaurant.
	You went in with every intention to eat a lot of food and pay your bill, make the money.
	And these people went in and trashed their restaurant, basically.
	Probably terrorized other guests, terrorized the staff.
	They sprayed the staff.
	There was at least one employee who was black, by the way, who got sprayed.
	Yeah, this is what I'm talking about.
	And these people are not involved.
	These people have no regard for any social norms at all.
	You know, their dancing was kind of funny.
	I haven't seen that, actually.
	You should watch some of their videos they were doing.
	This one guy is doing this sort of very effeminate kind of snake dance type thing, and this woman is doing this really awkward robot dance.
	It's pretty freaking ridiculously funny that these people are taking seriously at all.
	But then, from what I heard, and maybe correct me if I'm wrong, The police were reluctant to arrest any of these people, despite the fact that they had clearly violated multiple laws.
	No arrests were made, to my knowledge.
	That's ridiculous.
	That is ridiculous.
	Because this is not free speech.
	I mean, look, we could have a debate over free speech and things like that, but you don't actually have free speech in somebody's restaurant, right?
	And that's justice in my world.
	But we don't have that.
	We don't have that.
	Why were these people not arrested?
	Imagine the reverse.
	Imagine we burst into some communist meeting or something like that and do this.
	We would all be in jail.
	We would all be in jail, and this would be an ongoing national nightmare.
	Everyone would be reporting on fascist thugs, vigilantes taking the law into their own hands, and so on.
	The other thing, I've always said this as well, what is the psychology?
	Could you imagine...
	Barging, like, trying to disrupt a Leninist Marxist gathering.
	You know, like, if I heard there was a Leninist Marxist gathering, I'd be like, that's kind of interesting.
	I might even want to, I kind of, like, might even want to attend and hear these guys.
	I've attended them in the past.
	Yeah, like, you know, I don't knock yourself out.
	I mean, I'm not...
	I'm not going to do anything to you, but these people, their whole lives are based around annoying us.
	I mean, they live for us.
	They're obsessed.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And they don't really, I mean, well, there's a number of things here.
	One, I actually would like to get to the point where we, you know, Leninist Marxist gatherings are disrupted by the state, you know, not by us, but by the police themselves.
	And then I also think that – although they can be interesting in their own way if you ever have attended them, which I have when I was much younger.
	But the other thing is that, yeah, they live for us because they are frustrated at – There's an imaginary system.
	They don't understand their role in the system.
	And I think one of the reasons they're not very effective is that they don't understand their role in the system.
	They think that they are anti-system when they are just foot soldiers for the system.
	But they don't understand this, and I think if they did understand this, they would be more effective because they would actually employ the state and its resources in ways that they don't because these people would also protest.
	This is the other thing that makes me angry is that, like, hey, police, listen, we back you.
	Every time a cop shoots a black guy justifiably and the national media wants to take his scalp, we are out there backing you.
	And these people want you to be strung up publicly, and you're going to not arrest them when they harass us?
	You should take your own side.
	If you're not going to take our side, take your side.
	Yes.
	That's completely true.
	It was an interesting evening, and I think everyone ultimately had fun.
	There is this kind of...
	There's this sense of we're under threat, and that builds up our community, and so on.
	So I'm glad we did it, and I'm glad we didn't back down.
	We were basically trying everything.
	We were trying different meetup points.
	We were sending out misinformation about some things.
	I won't actually mention all the little things we did, but there is misinformation out there, which I find kind of amusing, but I'll let others...
	You know, unthread that kind of thing.
	But anyway, I'm glad we did it, but I would say that it's just clear.
	The world is different now.
	Whatever you want to say about Trump...
	Is this guy going to disappoint us?
	What is he going to do?
	The fact is, that election created a psychic trauma in the nation and really all around the world.
	And we are just at a new stage right now, and we need to recognize that and start adjusting accordingly.
	I won't mention this stuff on the podcast because it's in flow at the moment, and just by the very nature, we need to keep things under wraps.
	Uh, but I, I do have, I have some very good ideas that I've talked with other people about, and there are ways that we can start meeting in public, like in, in a big way, like meeting in public, like 150 people, 150 of us, like have a dinner and speakers and things like that.
	But we're just going to have to do things differently for like, let's just say the next four years.
	And that's a very sad thing.
	But this is.
	This shows where we are.
	We still are the alt-right.
	I mean, this is an alternative movement.
	We are anti-system.
	We are very similar to dissidents or heretics in other ages.
	And we need to understand that.
	We definitely need to do things publicly.
	Believe me, I am 100%.
	Believe me.
	Believe me.
	I am 100% in terms of public because that is, we need, you know, we're not living in a society where, like, the state is going to arrest Richard Spencer and shoot him.
	You know, it's just that that's not where we are.
	Like, we need to be public.
	But I think we also, like, over the past year, we've developed more of a robust, like, private meetup culture.
	And I think we can take that to the next level, and that's definitely going to be, I think, maybe the vast majority of conferences are going to be of a private level where there's no public-facing aspect to it.
	But we need to do the public-facing aspect.
	We need to be like, we're here, we're not going away, we're going to change the world.
	Speaking of that, I think that...
	There is this, you know, the Trump election caused this sort of, as you said, psychic trauma.
	I mean, quite literally with some people, like there was a, I don't know if you heard yesterday, there was a story that came out that some guy who had written an article, I think for, I think it was Slate or something like that, one of these things.
	I'd have to look up the article to find exactly what it was.
	He'd written an article for one of the, oh, Alternet, Alternet.org, that's what it was.
	Okay, so he'd written an article called like post-Trump.
	Like PTSD, but where the T stands for like Trump, like post-Trump stress disorder, something like that.
	And then he like died of a heart attack two days later.
	Like literally, like dropped dead.
	And I'm like, holy shit, like this guy literally dropped dead because Trump was elected.
	And I mean, I wonder what, I mean, I know what my Thanksgiving was like, which I'm not going to talk about.
	But I wonder what – it was fine because we didn't talk about it.
	But I wonder what it was like around the country.
	I mean this is like a national topic of conversation.
	Like what are you going to do?
	The funny thing is for so many years we've seen these things where like on sort of like Huffington Post and Jezebel and things like this.
	Like how to deal with your racist uncle at Thanksgiving.
	Yeah.
	But now we're coming out with like how to deal with your stupid shit-lived nephew or something like that.
	We're putting out our versions of these.
	I think that's pretty good.
	But, you know, I'm actually fairly, maybe we differ here, but I'm fairly optimistic that the culture will shift enough that, like, these kinds of things won't be, like, this kind of public thing, like what happened at the restaurant in D.C., won't be acceptable anymore in a couple years.
	And maybe I'm being, you know, too hopeful about that, but I think Barack Obama...
	Accelerated anarcho-tyranny in a pretty significant way, such that I don't think that when George W. Bush was president that these people would not have been arrested for that kind of trespass and vandalism.
	I mean, that was flagrant trespass and vandalism, and they just got away with it.
	And so, and we know that the sort of chilling effect, people have to use that word, chilling effect, the sort of chilling effect on the police that Barack Obama, his presidency, and Eric Holder and what's-her-face in the Justice Department, that those people have had on the police and that they're worried, you know, they're going to get prosecuted if they, frankly, come down hard on black people or...
	Or like these sorts of people, these Antifa sorts of people, that they're not going to have the backing of the federal government.
	In fact, they might get investigated.
	That's out the window.
	I mean, we know who the attorney general is going to be.
	Sessions, the AG now.
	So that's out the window, right?
	So I'm hoping that we're going to see maybe a little bit of a return to, if not like, you know, what we would want.
	At least a return of some sane law and order policies.
	Where these people can't just flagrantly violate property and violate people's rights with no consequences.
	I hear you, and obviously we'll see what happens.
	But the only thing I would say is that I would reiterate what I said before, and that is that the anti-fascists are now at another level.
	And we can only predict that it's going to become even harder core.
	That's why I'm saying no more public-facing private events.
	If we do anything, it has to be in a public facility.
	Because we went from them screaming at us, but I don't think anyone was really ever in fear of them.
	I remember being at the American Renaissance Conference back in 2013.
	And I was walking.
	I'm friends with Sam Dixon.
	I love the guy.
	And we had just eaten lunch or something.
	We were walking in.
	And we were kind of like, oh, should we walk around?
	And I think we both said to each other, let's just walk right in front of them.
	Fuck them.
	And I remember just kind of smiling at them and waving.
	And you get a lot of the cheers, but at no point did I really...
	No one touched me.
	No one did anything.
	I remember another time, this is going back to the...
	So this was like the early days of alternative right.com.
	And I was giving this little college, um, A little college lecture at Providence College.
	I think I've seen a video.
	Yeah, Dick Spencer, go away.
	Yeah, it's a classic.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Dick Spencer, I'm calling you out.
	And then he, like, took off his jacket.
	Yeah, and then all those...
	Yeah, he ripped over his jacket like Superman.
	He was like, Antifa.
	I've seen that shit.
	But I don't know if you noticed, my laptop was sitting right there on the table, and they didn't touch it.
	So they didn't even violate my property.
	I think that we're now at a level where if that same situation happened again, they would have smashed my laptop, they would have sprayed me with shit of some kind.
	And I feel like, look, if you look at Europe, the Antifa there, they will bring a baseball bat to a conference that they don't want.
	So I don't think we're quite there yet, but...
	We're definitely...
	There's been a trauma.
	I think these guys are going to step up their game.
	With Trump, I think there's going to be all of these just shit-lib people, liberals, who are also going to step up their game.
	They're going to feel like they're the one dissident saying no to Hitler.
	Yeah, they're the voice in the wilderness, right?
	Exactly, yeah.
	They've been saying that about themselves.
	God, we all remember the Bush years, but we're about to see a...
	Wow.
	I mean, I can't.
	We're about to see shit-lib meltdowns on a level.
	And this is actually, when I was initially supporting Trump, I was like, whatever my optimism or pessimism about his policies, at the very least, we'll get to see shit-lib meltdowns on a level that shouldn't be possible.
	And we're going to see it, and we're starting to see it.
	Actual heart attacks.
	Yeah, he actually had a heart attack.
	I'm sure there have been suicides, you know, but yeah, I mean, I see what you're saying, and I think that at the same time as that is happening, we have an opportunity.
	I mean, I'm not encouraging any of us to go out and do violence against these people, but I do think that one of the things that we're doing at TRS is we, on some level, we want to use their psychosis against them.
	We want to provoke them.
	We want to get them to do insane things publicly, and we want to get them to go and protest normal stuff.
	I don't know if you agree or not, we never spoke about this, but the identification of where we're just saying, now we're just the Republican Party.
	I do find this funny.
	No, I mean, I think it's actually a good strategy.
	I mean, I believe that at MPI, even, there were people that were under the impression that these people were simply protesting.
	The Republican Party.
	Yeah.
	Oh, I think there were people saying there's a Republican event going on in there.
	Yeah, I mean, there's no difference anymore.
	I mean, this is in some ways something we can possibly use to our advantage.
	There's no difference anymore in the rhetoric they're going to attack us with and the rhetoric they would attack the GOP with, right?
	The GOP are racist, fascist scum, just like us.
	So we can just say, I think we should build future events, Republican Party.
	Like, I mean, why not?
	Yeah.
	Like, let's make this a reality.
	And look, one thing you said a while ago, I don't know if you said it in passing or if you remember it, but it made an impact on me, and I've been saying it to people since, is that since the Republican Party is effectively the white people's party, we have to be part of it.
	And so that has caught on.
	I mean, that everybody, you know, if you were to have said that three years ago, you would have...
	God knows what kind of infighting you would have created, but right now, everybody's on board with that.
	I mean, obviously, with a few exceptions, but, you know, I mean, everybody has said to me, that's a great meme, and we agree with that, and so why not?
	I mean, I'm a registered Republican, so there we go.
	Yeah.
	Like, we're the Republican Party now.
	We have to have that attitude.
	Yeah, I think we do have to have that attitude.
	We need to meme things into existence.
	I think the only thing that I would say is that I'm in a bit of a morning after state emotionally about Trump right now in the sense that I was as excited...
	As anyone.
	And despite the fact that I predicted Trump's victory on Twitter, I'll just be honest.
	I did not go into Tuesday evening being like, oh, we've got this one in the bag.
	I mean, I was in a very, very nervous mood.
	I felt like it might very well not happen.
	And so I was totally elated when it happened.
	And I do think it's just a wonderful thing.
	But I'm getting into a bit of a morning after state in the sense that, look, Trump as a potentiality, it was just a truly amazing thing.
	And not just because he triggered, you know, shit libs and all those kind of people, but it was just this idea of like, this is something new.
	He's not a conservative.
	He is the first step towards identity politics for white people in the United States, like Easy.
	But now I'm...
	Now he's in office, and so it's like he's in actuality.
	And so I am getting to a stage where it's like, okay, we need to sober up too, and we need to start being vigilant and start criticizing him.
	And let's just break it down in terms of some of these issues.
	In terms of foreign policy, The president is a dictator of foreign policy to a huge extent.
	And so it is just going to inherently change.
	There is not going to be another Libya humanitarian intervention.
	There is definitely not going to be an Iraq with...
	With Trump in office, or at least I hope so.
	I mean, if he goes that far, I'm just going to be like, all right, you fucking lied to us.
	I'm checking out completely if that happens.
	I mean, really, the test there is who he appoints as Secretary of State, which is, I think, why everybody's sort of on...
	I'm like waiting with bated breath to see who it's actually going to be.
	Now, my hope is that he appoints this, frankly, this liberal Bernie Sanders supporting woman who was rumored that he, you know, well, it wasn't rumored.
	He factually had a meeting with this woman.
	I don't know if you heard about this.
	Tulsi Gabbard, her name is.
	She's a Democrat who is a Bernie Sanders supporter, and she's very anti-neocon, anti-intervent.
	Basically, she has, you know, as we always said, like.
	Well, I don't like the people that say, well, we're neither left nor right.
	We're something different.
	I think we're right-wing, definitely.
	But we shared with the far-left the vision on foreign policy.
	It's not for the same reasons, the same basic vision, that we are pro-peace, pro-non-intervention.
	And this woman is basically that, and she's anti-neocon.
	And it's great.
	And she went and had a meeting with Trump and it was even rumored that he was going to make her Secretary of State.
	Now, if he does that, I will be really, really happy.
	If he appoints Mitt Romney or some other neocon, I will be very, very pissed.
	Mitt Romney is a bit equivocal in my book because Mitt Romney is not like a died-in-the-world neocon.
	He's just some upper-level manager who goes with the flow.
	That's at least equivocal.
	John Bolton is frightening, in my opinion.
	It's not happening.
	I'm confident that's not happening.
	And I haven't heard anything about that.
	This woman picking someone that is beloved by Counterpunch or Antiwar.com, I think that's kind of fascinating.
	So I would go with that.
	I think that's not only...
	I think it's brilliant.
	I think it would be...
	One of the best metapolitical moves.
	I mean, Trump, look, I'm not in the morning after period yet because I haven't seen evidence that I should be yet.
	And that's because he has continually surprised and continually been actually – I do not think he is a white nationalist.
	I do not think he is a white identitarian.
	I think he is a nationalist though.
	And that, right now, is enough to make these people go insane.
	But I think that he has continually surprised me with actually how staunch he was on issues that I cared about and how actually brilliant of a politician he was.
	So I'm not counting him out yet.
	I mean, I'll just wait until it actually happens.
	And I think that in terms of him disavowing us, like that's not the first time it happened.
	It's something he kind of has to do.
	And so I'm not I'm not I'm not even mad about that.
	But I am.
	I'm not ready to say I'm in the morning after period yet because I just haven't actually seen evidence yet.
	The Secretary of State pick will be huge in determining that.
	Sessions as Attorney General, if we can get this Kobach guy in Homeland Security, which it looks like that's already kind of out there, and if you saw that thing where...
	The guy had the paper that was obviously angled so that you could see it and you could zoom in.
	And then they had plans about building a wall and deporting all these illegals right there.
	I don't think that was an accident.
	People were like, Chris Kobach needs to be more secure with his files.
	I'm like, no, dude.
	He did that on purpose.
	Come on.
	And Trump was standing there with a smug look on his face, like adjusting his...
	His cufflinks.
	The picture is brilliant.
	And I'm like looking at Trump's face.
	Maybe I'm projecting.
	But I'm like, he knows what's going on.
	He knows that they're memeing the press right now.
	And so I was like, those are pretty good memes.
	And, you know, I don't know.
	I'm still white-pilled on the whole thing.
	We'll see.
	That's good.
	Yeah, look, I think the Trump phenomenon has been an amazing experience.
	I'm just maybe getting a little skeptical.
	Maybe I'm wrong about this, but this is how I see it.
	For really serious immigration reform, it has to happen in the next year and a half.
	We're thinking January 20th through, let's just say, January 20th, 2017 through August 2018.
	That is the window, in my opinion, to really do something.
	Because after that, everyone's starting to think about, They're less willing to do something fairly dramatic.
	I think he has to say, he has to hit the ground running, say there's a big mandate for this, we've got to go.
	And so this is really the moment for...
	What you could call kosher immigration reform.
	Like, this is their moment.
	This is their 18-month period where they've got to prove themselves or not.
	And so it's like, what we need, obviously, the wall's great, but the wall...
	I agree with liberals.
	The wall is, in a way, more symbolism than reality.
	I'm fine with just increased enforcement and various means of deportation, whether you do a lot of physical deportations that basically set a new tone and then inspire other people to engage in self-deportation.
	I think that's probably the best way to do it.
	But I would say this, if we get a huge wall and we get all this deportation of, you know, the bad ones and the criminals, but we have a path to citizenship or something like, well, we're, we're increasingly.
	legal immigration, because we love that, then I'm also out.
	Because it just doesn't make sense.
	Then we're just being conservatives and being like, oh, well, immigration's wonderful.
	It's just the fact that they didn't fill out the paperwork that bothers me.
	I don't give a shit if they feel it.
	I don't, like, illegal.
	Legal immigration is, you know, not good, but that's not, the legality is not what bothers me.
	And so, you know, this is their moment, and, you know, I think we should be talking about it, and I think we should be, like, the alt-right should be on that far flank of the over-the-window.
	Like, we're going to, actually at MPI, we're going to be talking about, you know, net neutral immigration for the next half century.
	And again, that's as far as you can go, but then it's still being within the realm of possibilities, in my opinion.
	So we're going to talk about that.
	But again, if it's a wall plus increased illegal immigration, or if it's a land or path to citizenship, again, I'm also out.
	Right.
	No, I completely agree.
	The wall is good.
	I would like a wall, and walls work, frankly.
	Robert Frost taught this to all of us.
	It's funny, people kind of want to skirt around what he was really saying in that poem, but it's a brilliant poem, in my opinion.
	Walls work.
	It worked for Israel.
	These people were going across the border and blowing shit up, and they don't do it anymore because they put up a wall.
	So I'm for a wall, but you're right.
	If there's a wall plus some paths, then forget about it.
	And on sort of a deeper level of a comment with this is that one of the things we talked about on our show, but I'll just reiterate it here, is this idea that the way we talk about immigration is fundamentally flawed.
	It's fundamentally wrong.
	Not us, but generally in the United States.
	We focus on criminality and we focus on illegality rather than race and identity.
	And we do that because we can't talk about race and identity.
	So it's like crypto, like conservatives.
	And the problem is you have to say things like, I mean, as much as I love Trump's initial statements, I mean, he didn't say...
	They're all rapists.
	He didn't say they're all criminals or drug dealers or whatever.
	But many of them are not.
	So you don't have to paint Mexicans all with this brush of rapists and criminals because they're not all that.
	But we just can't talk about the real issue.
	So we have to be like, they're all criminals.
	They're all illegal.
	In a way, you're saying things that are worse than if you could just say, look...
	You know, this is a country for our people, and they have a country for their people.
	Yeah, because they're not all criminals.
	They're roofers.
	It's, like, nicer.
	It's, like, in a way nicer to say than, like, oh, they're all criminals and rapists.
	It's just something you have to kind of amp up in order to get the policy.
	You can't move policy on the basis of race in the U.S., so you have to try and make some kind of criminal crisis.
	Now, look, I think there is a lot of criminality down there and there's the cartels and a lot of bad things happen.
	And many of these illegal immigrants are, in fact...
	And this is why these bureaucrats let these people that are criminals come back time and time again.
	Well, many of them aren't.
	The majority of them are not criminals.
	They are, in fact, workers.
	But, like, I don't care.
	Like, they should be in Mexico.
	It's their country.
	This is our country.
	And we can't say that anymore.
	And because of that, we have to build up this false narrative of criminality and illegality.
	And that then leads to the risk of, because we don't want to talk about race, where you're like, well, we'll just get rid of the bad ones, you know?
	And it's like, well, that's really not the point.
	Yeah, what you're saying is kind of funny where, like...
	The alt-right is, in a way, more polite.
	Actually, they're not all rapists.
	They've just got to go home.
	Their roofers and their cement layer is like, but yeah, they're just sorry.
	You've got to go back.
	And our people need to be doing those jobs.
	Yeah.
	No, that is absolutely true.
	Anyway, let's do this.
	Let's go right.
	Go right to the heart of the big controversy.
	Let's talk about the colorful gestures from another era that occurred.
	Oh, just waving hi.
	Just waving.
	Just saying hi.
	Just saying hi.
	Hello.
	Yeah.
	Look.
	I've been, in a way, accused by a lot of people in the movement.
	Like, oh, Richard, he's not hardcore enough.
	He doesn't do this.
	The fact is, when I'm speaking to a journalist, I really know my audience.
	And I want to communicate things to them, and I want them to communicate things to their readers.
	And to accomplish that, you have to speak to them on their terms.
	But I think anyone who's ever listened to my podcast or, say, listened to my speech from a year ago at the MPI conference in 2015, I think they can also recognize that I have a bit of a bombastic side, too.
	And I profoundly...
	I profoundly care about the heart of this movement, and I am a radical in the truest sense of the word.
	So we kind of had this weird thing where a lot of these journalists are like, oh, Richard, he's so nice.
	He's a cute millennial guy.
	But then also he's the most bombastic, dangerous man.
	He's speaking in German, for God's sake.
	Literally German, somebody said, I think.
	That was one of the headlines I saw.
	Literally German.
	Luginpressa, by the way, goes back to the 19th century.
	You didn't even say it.
	We said it.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Like, when you said...
	This word for the lying press, like people yelled it out.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, you know, it is what it is.
	I loved my speech.
	I totally stand behind every word of it.
	I would, like, when I say hail Trump and all that kind of stuff, look, yes, I'm being bombastic.
	I'm being provocative.
	And I think people need to recognize...
	Like, they need to recognize, in a way, alt-right culture that we're not conservative fuddy-duddies.
	Like, we like to have fun.
	We like to dial the knob to 11 sometimes.
	And, you know, I knew that that was an applause line.
	I knew it was going to be highly provocative.
	And I also knew that it was going to create a big ovation.
	And it wasn't just an ovation for me.
	Like, I think when I said that...
	That ovation was just about the whole year of the alt-right, where everyone was just like, we fucking did it.
	We memed him into the office.
	I tried to explain to people that weren't there that felt like this was an orchestrated, as if you planned to have everybody do that or whatever.
	I was like, no, you don't understand.
	Emotions are running high.
	And people...
	Frankly, the people in the audience did not know there were cameras still rolling.
	And, you know, we were riding this wave of emotion, and it's sort of like, part of me was like, you know what, everyone fuck off, if you'll excuse me.
	Can we do something for ourselves for once?
	This was for us.
	It wasn't for them.
	It wasn't for anybody.
	Fuck all of you.
	We were amongst ourselves and we were riding this wave of high energy.
	And this thing happened.
	So whatever.
	I don't know.
	Everybody that was there told me that...
	They were extremely high energy in that moment, whether they did that or not.
	Only a few people did it, frankly.
	Four or five people did that.
	Everyone jumped to their feet and everyone was applying.
	People were extremely high energy at that point.
	Afterwards, we were in a very high energy mode.
	The funny thing is that...
	You know, I didn't even think this was going to be a thing.
	Like, I didn't even think about it until I saw this footage come out Monday night.
	Like, after the conference, people were extremely feeling, extremely high energy, extremely, I don't know, like, there was just this very good mood that was going on.
	Like, a lot of camaraderie, a lot of energy.
	Everybody was feeling good.
	Everybody was happy.
	Everyone's amped up.
	And we were talking, we were chatting, we hung out late at night.
	Hung out again in the morning.
	And everybody was just feeling really good about everything.
	And this did not even cross my mind that this was even going to be a thing.
	And then some people are like, okay, well, if you're going to be like that, then it's got to be private.
	I think they have a point there.
	But I also don't think that...
	I think that on some level...
	I don't want to go full on like...
	You know, trolling is the only way to do things, but being transgressive has worked.
	To a point, I'm not saying, like, I believe somebody said to me over the course of the last few days, like, well, if Richard thinks any kind of press is good press, then why doesn't he drink his own urine on camera?
	And I was like, okay, obviously.
	We're going to keep this within the bounds of sanity, right?
	But, like, you know, I don't know.
	I mean, I'm not even convinced that this is a bad thing, frankly.
	Look, we triggered the world.
	Alt-right is a household term.
	We shook out the people who aren't really with us.
	And, like, look, I have been one of the most...
	I'm the Mr. Tolerance when it comes to the alt-light.
	And I never believe that creating more enemies is a good thing.
	If they want to denounce us or if they want to be shaken off the train, that's perfectly fine.
	But I think if someone is not attacking you and is maybe neutral or generally positive or benign, then let it happen.
	There's no reason to create enemies.
	People like Mike Cernovich and that guy, he became a force of nature.
	He also, let's just be perfectly honest, plays fast and loose with the truth.
	The truth doesn't matter.
	He's just in attack mode.
	He jumps on waves.
	He jumped on the alt-right.
	Pro-Trump wave for a while.
	He's going to jump on another wave in 2017.
	We all know that.
	And he's not really one of us.
	Metapolitically, he's just simply not one of us.
	And just because he wants to piss off shit libs doesn't mean that he's one of us.
	So, you know, it's been fun.
	Yeah, I mean, we had a little bit of a critique of Cernovich on our last show, and I don't really need to say much more.
	But yes, he has been...
	He is what he is.
	I don't really care about him anymore.
	I'm like, at this point, I don't care.
	Whatever.
	He can go ahead and sell his self-help books, and that's fine.
	Whatever.
	That's all he cares about, so fine.
	Whatever.
	And Paul Joseph Watson or people like that.
	Just because I'm so fair, he actually does offer some good information.
	He's gotten away from the Alex Jones of yesteryear, which is far more entertaining.
	But they're now a little more based on reality.
	I'll look at his videos and get some information.
	I'm not that impressed with him.
	I'm not at all impressed with him as a thinker or something.
	No, he's not a thinker.
	As a newshound, he's great.
	So again, he's not all right.
	These guys ultimately don't care about what we care about.
	And so there was going to be a breakup.
	It happened because of this.
	This was not my motive to create a breakup, but the breakup was inevitable.
	So it happened on November 19, 2016, as opposed to I think it is important that we don't just become LARPing neo-Nazi doofuses.
	Clearly that is not...
	A positive strategy.
	However, it's also clear, like the alt-right is a household name.
	It's about identity.
	It's about European identity in the United States, really around the world.
	It's about us.
	We're serious.
	We're also willing to be outlandish and have fun, but we're serious.
	And that's what we want.
	And that's what we have.
	We have a brand.
	We have a ton of recognition.
	They're going to hate us anyway.
	And so we're here.
	I mean, I have not always been a fan.
	I mean, on some level, the argument like, oh, they're going to call you Nazi anyway.
	So just be one.
	That's a non sequitur.
	Yeah, I don't buy into that.
	Yeah.
	But like, yeah, I don't buy.
	It's not like they're going to call you Nazi anyway, so be a Nazi.
	But I think anybody that saw that video that's on as part of our thing that knows how it is, that interpreted that as us becoming Nazis is.
	Or neo-Nazis or whatever is stupid.
	They all know better.
	Anybody that's on our side that's part of this thing knows better.
	They know what that was.
	They understood exactly what was going on, which is that it was kind of a funny LARP-y thing and we were having fun with it.
	If they think that, oh, you know, like, you guys, oh, we didn't know this was a neo-Nazi thing.
	It's like, no, no, no.
	You're getting it twisted.
	And in some cases, I think maybe you're twisting it on purpose.
	But, like, on some level, like, it is true they're going to call us Nazis anyway.
	Like, they would have called MPI a neo-Nazi conference in the headlines no matter what.
	Whether they had that footage or not, they would have said neo-Nazis gather in Washington to celebrate Trump.
	They would have said that.
	They've said it before.
	So, you know, the fact that they had that footage, it was able to drive home that narrative with normies.
	But on some level, you know, I don't know if it was good or bad.
	I think it was less bad than people think, and I think in the end it will be a positive.
	So, yeah, I mean, I also think people really need to, I don't know, get a little bit of a grip.
	It's fine.
	Everything's fine.
	Everything's fine.
	Well, we just need to go upwards and onwards, and it is what it is, and we're going to make other headlines.
	I'm doing something next week at Texas A&M where a man named Preston Wigington, who's a very brave person, has rented out a space.
	I'm going to go there, and just because of Trump, just because of the NPI conference, This is already making headlines and we're like 10 days away.
	The news is freaking out.
	Chronicle of Higher Education is interviewing me about it.
	This is going to be a really big thing.
	Look, Trump did some things.
	I don't think anyone thinks that Trump benefited from pussy grabbing that incident.
	You take a hit.
	And, you know, if the world's going to hate you, you take it and you just keep moving forward.
	I agree.
	This is not like pussy grabbing.
	There's no Richard Spencer sex tape that's going to be released.
	Please, God, no.
	But you know what I mean?
	Like, that's not what it is.
	Basically, it's much more defensible than that.
	No one was assaulted.
	No calls for violence.
	I'm toasting.
	Like, it's clear.
	And actually, the media...
	The media has backed off saying that I gave a Roman salute.
	I didn't.
	I was holding up a glass toasting.
	I was smiling.
	I was clearly being outlandish.
	So it's like, that's where we are.
	I think, you know, we'll look back upon this a couple years from now.
	We can determine whether it's good or bad.
	But the fact is, it's like, let's go to the next thing.
	Like, I'm this Texas A&M.
	This event is going to be huge, and we're going to make another headline, and we're going to make another splash.
	Nothing's over.
	We're just moving forward.
	In terms of the interest, in terms of the people telling me that they support me, even if they disagreed with all this stuff and said, oh, that was bad, they're still supporting us.
	This movement's going to produce more good stuff, whether it's Your podcast or books we publish or blogs and so on.
	So let's just keep going.
	Just don't, you know, take a, like, you're a boxer.
	Like, take a fucking punch, you know?
	Yeah.
	I'll be honest, though.
	Like, I didn't, I mean, I don't know that pussy grabbing helped Trump.
	I wouldn't go that far.
	But I don't think it really hurt him, and then it became a meme.
	Grabber by the Pussy is now a meme.
	It's now a pop culture thing, and in a way, it disarmed it.
	I remember when I first heard that audio, I was riding the bus, and I saw the headlines come out, and I was like, oh, fuck.
	Then I listened to it, and I was like, oh, that's bad.
	But then within a few days...
	Grabbed by the pussy was a meme.
	And it was a meme even among leftists.
	And it was a thing that people were saying.
	And so, in a way, it made the whole thing innocent.
	It's sort of like...
	You remember the movie Downfall?
	Yeah.
	With Bruno Gans as Hitler?
	Yeah.
	Brilliant movie.
	Well, depending.
	It's a good movie.
	Maybe not a brilliant movie.
	It's a good acting performance by Bruno Gans, whether or not you like...
	The portrayal or agree with the portrayal historically.
	I don't know.
	That guy's really intense.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And that scene is fantastic.
	The scene that everybody memes is a fantastic scene just for the emotion of it, whether or not this is accurate or how Hitler really was or anything, which I have no way of knowing.
	I suspect it's totally not.
	But anyway, or maybe, who knows?
	But it's great in that what it does is it totally disarms it, right?
	And particularly when they make Hitler...
	Saying something that the viewer of the video is supposed to sympathize with.
	So it's like Hitler's angry at something that you get angry about all the time.
	And it totally makes Hitler this not-so-scary, crazy person anymore.
	And it disarms that.
	Which is not to say we want to be Hitler, but it's to say that it disarms Hitler in people's minds so that this is not an effective weapon against us anymore.
	You're absolutely correct.
	I mean, the first one of those memes that I saw, and I don't know if it was the first, Hitler was actually Hillary Clinton, and she was losing to Barack Obama.
	And the weird connection of Hillary and Hitler was also just funny on some weird level.
	But I've seen it also with Netflix.
	They're changing their name to Quickster and they're no longer streaming or something.
	It is good.
	But I think what you're getting at is that the symbol of Hitler and Auschwitz and the Holocaust, those things are powerful in their religious significance.
	You can study even something that was worse, like Pol Pot or Stalin, you can actually still study those things.
	Historically, in a dry academic fashion, you can disagree with people.
	There are actually robust debates about the purges.
	But with Hitler and Auschwitz, you simply cannot do that.
	There is no art after Auschwitz.
	It becomes the ultimate black pill where any time it looks like it's pointing in that direction, it can just be totally demeaned and dismissed.
	You cannot go.
	What differentiates you from Pol Pot?
	tell me what differentiates you from Pol Pot.
	You know, I would, you know, it's just, so it gets to that religious symbolism that like political theology.
	And so I do think that at the end of the day, Making fun of it is one of the most powerful things that's going to ever happen.
	And also, as time goes on, the shadow of Hitler begins to wane a little bit.
	We have kids now that were born in 1990, and they don't have this year after year of cultural programming and so on to think that any time a European...
	He expresses his identity.
	He is literally Hitler.
	That is just waning.
	Even these SJWs are kind of doing our work for us when they're like, Trump is literally Hitler.
	It becomes so ridiculous that you just have to laugh at it.
	I agree.
	I am a more serious person.
	I have my funny moments, but I've definitely been more of a serious person.
	But I'll actually tip my cap to the TRS world that...
	Humor is more powerful than rationality in changing people's psychology.
	Yeah, and just by making the whole thing not as...
	Like you say, being iconoclastic with it, tearing down this religious notion of it is...
	You can't have a debate about this, right?
	Since we can't debate about it, then we just...
	All we can do is meme about it.
	There's no debating Hitler.
	Even today, we just have memes.
	And those memes are making the specter of Hitler less of a thing and therefore less of a weapon that can be used against us.
	And this is great.
	The whole thing where anytime you see some shitlib going crazy online, somebody posts that image that's like...
	Everything I don't like is Hitler.
	Like the emotional child's guide to politics or something like that.
	You know what I mean?
	And they're doing our work for us because they're so ridiculous and they're calling things that are obviously just even like milquetoast conservative or cuckservative Hitler.
	You know, they're calling like somebody wants to...
	It's almost like capital gains tax.
	Literally Hitler!
	You know what I mean?
	It's like, who gives a shit?
	So it's like, yeah.
	And so that's good for us because it means, you know, if everything's Hitler, then nothing's Hitler.
	And then we can finally get past this stage where we have to be sort of stymied and stifled by this.
	And the thing, I think there is a generation gap in the reactions to it.
	I noticed it just amongst the people that I talked to.
	Whereas everybody...
	My age or younger, for the most part, was like, who gives a fuck?
	And the older people were all kind of clutching their pearls about it.
	And I think that it wasn't just us that did that.
	In some sense, society did that.
	The school system did that.
	Because in some sense, you're going to get young men being irreverent and rebellious.
	This is a thing that happens.
	It's just to phase it.
	You know, men with testosterone have to go through.
	And in a way, it's sort of like a healthy thing because it prepares people to take leadership roles, you know, in adulthood.
	And so the system that they've set up, it's like, I mean, one of the interesting things we've seen since Trump election is there are kids in like middle school that are like chanting, build the wall.
	You know what I mean?
	So do you think these kids are going to care?
	And these are the people that are going to be joining our ranks in the next few years.
	So do you think that they are going to care about something like this?
	No, they're going to think it's hilarious.
	And so, while again, I think there's limits to this transgression and trolling as propaganda, this, I don't think, crossed those boundaries.
	No, no.
	I think maybe one criticism, and I'm not even sure I agree with this, but I'm at least thinking about it, is that you can't always mix them.
	There's the trolling, and then there's the more serious, quasi-academic lecture kind of thing.
	But I don't know.
	Maybe we should...
	I mean, maybe you need a little bit of that Dionysian energy with some of the Apollonian energy of talking about, like, what kind of world do we want to see?
	How can we change reality?
	I think you do need a little bit of that Dionysian fuck you thrown in there.
	Or we wouldn't be true to ourselves.
	Yeah, that's the thing.
	It's sort of like, I've always found that, now this is just related to TRS and our thing, but I've found that whenever we've tried to Not be ourselves.
	It hasn't worked out.
	And whenever we've been true to ourselves, we've expanded our reach.
	Whenever we've tried to plan things out, and I'm not saying planning is bad, but whenever we've tried to craft narratives rather than just go with our gut, it's failed.
	And I understand, again...
	There's limits to that kind of thinking, too.
	Obviously, when you're building a bridge, you need to plant it.
	You don't go with your gut.
	When it comes to propaganda, which is frankly what we do, when it comes to propaganda and outreach and political messaging and things, I think really you're hitting people on emotional levels.
	And not rational levels.
	I mean, Scott Adams is mostly full of shit, but if he had anything that was worthwhile, he's not the first person that said it, it's that people aren't rational with politics.
	And so, you know, we're not doing, we're not necessarily taking, I mean, The Daily Show, it does not really necessarily take a rational approach.
	It's like we're taking a very, you know, we, I don't know, we just do what we do and it works out.
	And I do what I think.
	Is right for the situation.
	And, you know, we've done that the whole time.
	And every time we've...
	It's not so much every time we tried to plan it.
	Every time we've second-guessed ourselves, it hasn't worked out.
	And whenever we just go full bore, it does.
	Now, there may be limits to that that will run into a brick wall of, you know, our ceiling, as Nate Silver would put it.
	We've hit our ceiling.
	But, like, you know, I don't know.
	Who knows what our ceiling is?
	If our ceiling is like 5 million people, that's great.
	Oh, totally, yeah.
	And again, that video has been viewed, the last time I heard it was like 40 million views or something.
	If 1% of those people actually start to look into us and start to agree with it, or if 1% looks at that and they're kind of like, wow, these guys are awesome.
	I love how just badass they are.
	That's a huge victory.
	The other thing, look, I kept thinking that we'd hit a ceiling.
	I thought the alt-right had almost hit a ceiling in 2015.
	Or, you know, or when you, I think Ramsey Paul actually showed this trajectory, like, on Google searches of the alt-right at the Ameren conference last May.
	And I almost thought that we had hit a ceiling at that point, that it's like, oh, wow, like, we're becoming a household term.
	And then, like, Hillary talks about us.
	Then, you know, presidents have to denounce us or distance themselves.
	I mean, I don't know.
	I mean, let's not assume that there's this big ceiling out there.
	For our exposure.
	And yeah, let's just kind of like do what we do and continue to trigger the world.
	And again, I agree.
	Like we need to have, we can't, it can't just all be a joke.
	I mean, I think that is a danger, but I don't think that's really like a problem for us.
	I mean, we've built up a huge repertory of good stuff.
	You know, MPI, we're about to...
	This week, we're about to release a new book by Thomas Lev Sunish.
	We have a translation, The Conservative Revolution.
	We did this huge Sam Francis thing.
	We're not lacking for substance.
	Artos and this guy named Jason Giorgiani, who actually spoke briefly, the guy is totally amazing, totally solid.
	We have those horses, and it's not like this is just a movement of Pepe.
	Pepe memes.
	I agree.
	Coming out of it a few days later, I'm just like, look, we've got to be true to ourselves.
	This movement is outlandish.
	This movement is about breaking taboos.
	We need to, to thy own self, be true.
	If we're not scaring people, and if we're not making a mistake here and there, then we need to re-examine.
	Because when we never made any mistakes, we actually did not get anywhere.
	Yeah, I mean, I can't tell you how many times I thought we made a huge mistake.
	I mean, not there, but I mean, TRS generally, in the name of our podcast, and I'm not even saying that if it ever comes to the time where we have our TRS media company and we have a daily morning radio show...
	I mean, maybe we'll still call it that.
	I don't know.
	We haven't decided that.
	But so many times I thought this was a huge error.
	We did it as a joke two and a half years ago.
	But now I'm like, you know what?
	Screw it.
	I'm not changing until you show me evidence that I have to.
	Well, you guys have so many listeners.
	I mean, there's no reason to change it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, and the listeners have continued to go up.
	Now, we possibly hit a little bit of a peak with the Trump election, and maybe we'll come back down a little bit, but the next plateau will be higher than the last one.
	And then, you know, we'll continue up in that sort of ratchet fashion.
	Or maybe we'll just stay where we are.
	I don't know.
	I mean, I get so much, we get so many emails.
	And the thing that's so heartening is that we get so many emails of people that were like, you know, I was a cuck-servative, I was a shit-lib, I was a libertarian.
	I mean, it used to be all I was a libertarian.
	We're getting less and less of those.
	Because I think we might have tapped that market.
	That's actually fascinating that you say that.
	I think we might have tapped out that market.
	Because the people that are still with libertarianism...
	Oh, they're just leftists.
	They're hopeless, right?
	They're hopeless.
	I don't know if they're leftists, but they're people that just want to sell pot and, you know, sell pot, basically.
	They're basically just potheads and people that like to smoke weed and shoot guns.
	And that's all they want to do.
	And it's like, that's fine.
	But that world is not going to be available to you.
	If things keep going this way.
	But yeah, so we're getting actually fewer and fewer people that are like, yeah, I was a libertarian.
	Because at this point, if you're a libertarian, you know about the alt-right.
	And if you haven't jumped in, then you're not going to.
	So that market, I think, is tapped out.
	It's saturated.
	This is actually a fascinating development.
	Because I would have said that at the very least...
	Half of the alt-right are former libertarians of some kind.
	And it might actually be three-fourths.
	But you're right.
	Now we're going to reach the former leftist.
	I would always reach a handful of people like that.
	I voted for Barack Obama in 2008.
	I was an environmentalist.
	Now I'm alt-right.
	I would meet the individuals like that.
	But the overwhelming...
	The overwhelming majority were.
	I voted for Ron Paul in 2008 or 2012.
	But yeah, now it's like I was a cuck.
	I was a cuck until 2013.
	Because if you think about it, I mean, the all right is known to libertarians very well.
	And I am still friends with some people that are sort of skirting that line.
	They are harder core than they were a few years ago as libertarians, but they're still kind of libertarian.
	But they're all well aware.
	They're all well aware and acquainted with this whole thing.
	So it's like if they've jumped in or they haven't and at this point there's going to be people that are in a state libertarian that are just potheads.
	There's going to be people that ride the fence and then there's those that come in.
	More of these riots and things like that might do it.
	But I do think that we're going to increasingly see former liberals probably most likely.
	Probably white liberals, the kind of, you know, kids that were raised, guys that were raised to be progressives.
	Probably increasingly the people coming over.
	That's going to be a fascinating thing, yeah.
	Yeah, I mean, we've gotten more and more of those at TRS, so, yeah.
	Guys who were voted Democratic because of the environment, or they just saw them as, like, you know, good government.
	They were turned off by the Ted Cruz.
	Or a Republican Party.
	Yeah, I think those are going to be actually high-quality people.
	Or, you know, they thought they were going to get a girl or something.
	I don't know.
	I don't know what, you know.
	Who knows?
	Maybe because their family were always Democrats.
	Things like this.
	But increasingly, I think that those types of people are going to be coming over.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Cuxervatives will be the last ones.
	We'll have to drag Cuxervatives across the finish line, kicking and screaming.
	I wonder if they're also just going to...
	The true cuck, like the cruise cuck type person.
	I wonder if that is just a generational thing.
	I think so.
	I think Steve Jobs said one funny thing.
	He was like, for technology to advance, millions of people have to die.
	That obviously sounds kind of funny, like Stalin or something.
	But what he just means is that...
	People get, you know, they're attached to one way of doing things, but eventually they are going to pass, and there's going to be a new generation of people who are just ready for a new paradigm.
	And I think that is probably true with the cruise cuck type thing.
	I don't know.
	Maybe this is my own perspective, my totally biased perspective, but just how could that be attractive at this point?
	It's not attractive to young people, and I can't imagine that it would be in the same way that, you know, the people that got a little bit nervous and started countersignaling and got upset about the MPI, the hail gate, as we were calling it, hail gate, or salute gate, or whatever you want to call it.
	There's a definite generation gap.
	I mean, I observed it just in my own circles.
	And there's far more young people than there are older people, but the older people were sort of universally nervous about it, and the young people were like, pfft.
	So I think, and this is also because, I mean, even I who went to school, high school in the 90s, middle school and high school in the 90s, we don't know.
	I mean, I think you did too.
	We're the same age.
	We don't know the kind of demonization that these white kids are facing in school today.
	We had it somewhat.
	They've got it bad.
	And I think that really for these people that have actually been demonized their whole life as a white, particularly white males, women to some extent, and actually one thing we want to do is increase the demonization of women on the left.
	That's a great thing to come out of the Trump election.
	No, seriously.
	The fact they're attacking white women is great, because as soon as white women are no longer in their wheelhouse, that opens up whole new worlds.
	They're openly doing that.
	I've seen Samantha Bee.
	Yeah, no, I know.
	They're openly attacking white women, and it's great.
	We want to exacerbate that.
	But these kids...
	Imagine going to school like 18 years old.
	Imagine the mindfuck they've done on you.
	And then you hear for the first time from people like us like...
	You know, you're fine.
	Like, you didn't do anything.
	You didn't do nothing wrong.
	And you actually, you should say a big fuck you to all these people that tortured you mentally through your upbringing and just come join us.
	And I think that's going to be a powerful appeal that we're going to make to these people.
	Yeah, you're absolutely right.
	Like, the things that we experienced have been amplified by a hundred.
	Like, the kind of propaganda that we experienced, like, freshman year in college where you have this, you know, orientation sessions.
	Or things like that.
	Like, it's been multiplied by 100 for each of these kids.
	Like, they've had white privilege written on their face by a Sharpie.
	Like, if not literally, then figuratively.
	I mean, they're almost inviting violence against whites.
	I mean, it's really crazy.
	And so, yeah.
	And like I said, they're not going to care about any of these pieties about, like...
	Hitler and World War II, they are not going to be subjected to that emotional manipulation because they were just told, you're shit, their whole upbringing.
	And that's not going to work out well in the end for the left.
	It's really not.
	Let's put a bookmark in it on that.
	I think that's a good place to stop.
	Well, Mike, thanks.
	I really appreciate it.
	And this is a great conversation.

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