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July 15, 2022 - Rudy Giuliani
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Black Victim to Black Victor Author talks about the Bodega case | Guest: Adam Coleman | Ep 254
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Welcome to another episode of Rudy's Common Sense.
Today's episode is going to go into the case that seems to have dominated our attention now for six or seven days, and it's the case involving Jose Alba, the bodega owner who was attacked and in self-defense stabbed and killed the man who attacked him.
He was also attacked by the man's girlfriend.
But for some reason was arrested for second-degree murder, held on $500,000 bail, and still is under that murder charge, even though he's since been released from jail.
It's become a case of national interest, and It's strange that some cases do become a case of national interest.
I'm going to talk to someone who has written an excellent book on A subject very, very similar to this, which would give him real insights into what happened and recently wrote a really quite insightful article for the New York Post.
And before we delve into the Alba case and the implications for America, of course you can't You can't move on to any case at this point in our history without noting the seismic change that was made by the Supreme Court in the recent decision reversing Roe against Wade and putting the issue of abortion back with the states where it belonged in the first place.
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So, a very excellent article was written earlier this week by Adam B. Coleman.
And Adam is also the author of a very fine book, Black Victim, Black Victor, in which he's been able to examine these issues deeper than just this incident.
So I thought it would be wonderful to get a chance to interview him on this.
So we'll begin, Adam.
Maybe you could begin, just tell us a little about yourself and about Black Victim, Black Victor, how you came to write it, and what the general theme is.
Sure.
First, thank you for having me on.
It's an honor, to be honest with you.
Yeah, I usually describe myself, I'm a normal American who one day decided to stop sitting on the sidelines and just do something.
I wanted to contribute something to the conversation, especially after the death of George Floyd, where the media painted the experience of a black man as being in constant fear of the police being shot.
or being constantly discriminated.
And, you know, for someone like myself, I've lived in five states.
I moved a lot when I was a kid.
And I've been in areas where it was racially mixed.
I've been, you know, one of four black kids in the entire school.
And my experience as a young man in America has been overwhelmingly positive.
You know, the experience of being discriminated or feeling uncomfortable are so few that they're not rememberable.
They're insignificant moments in my life.
And so I felt like nobody was speaking to my story.
No one was speaking up for me.
And one day it just hit me that I should speak for myself.
I had been wanting to write a book for a bit, more so as some sort of legacy piece to give to my son, something that I can leave behind for him.
And I just didn't have the topic of what to write about, but I was obsessed with questions because I was in a kind of a transformative state of questioning myself, questioning the world around me.
So that's why the introduction is called questions.
That was my, you know, that was me getting all my questions out.
That was the last thing I wrote in the book was the introduction.
But I, I just decided to, you know, sit down for about nine months of writing and editing.
Uh, and decided to publish it myself with zero expectations.
Um, you know, I, before I even wrote the book, I had no public face, really.
I barely had a Facebook account.
Um, I wasn't really big into social media.
Um, and I pretty much kept to myself.
Uh, I I'm not a put my politics out there kind of person, uh, before.
So for me to do this, I was opening myself up to it.
But I felt like it was necessary to do so.
And I felt like I could handle any criticisms because I know my heart's in the right place.
So I put the book out there and I just decided to reach out and see if anybody actually wanted to hear what I had to
say.
And a year has passed and things that have happened, sitting here with you, I could have never imagined that.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I will say it's a very, very good book and it's a very challenging book.
And in the society in which we live, it's a book that's going to divide people.
Many, many are going to agree with you.
Many are very angry at you for it.
I think that's why it had to be written, because a lot of people can't face this issue.
And it's always been my view, you never solve a problem until you define it.
And the more accurately you define it, the more perfect your solution is.
And I think you've done a very good job of defining the problem.
So now we get to this case.
And first, This happens, all of a sudden, it's on the front page of The Post, then it's on the front page of everything, and now it's become a national story.
How do you see it?
How do you analyze it?
When did you first confront the facts of the case, and then kind of fit into the analysis that you do in your book?
I tend to, especially when it comes to sensationalized encounters like with police and things like that, I tend not to go off of gut reaction.
I usually wait a day or two for more information to come out and to kind of just sit on it.
And to me, when I finally like just watched the video and just analyzed it, to me, it seemed very clear that he's trying to get away and he's defending himself.
And especially when you learn the facts that This was the second part of an interaction where there was separation, and the person came there to confront him, and then that's when you see the camera footage.
So, you know, there's a gap in time, and so that means that there's intention to come down to confront.
I guess what I'm getting at is Jose Alba is the victim in this situation.
He's the one who's doing his job.
He's the one who's having to deal with being confronted.
And based off of the image, Simon is the one who came into the employee's area, right?
Behind where he normally stands at, right?
So he's showing intention to confront.
He confronted him by physically attacking him.
And when he tried to leave, you can see his arm reach out by his neck.
And then that's when Alba attacked him because they're in close quarters.
He's preventing him from leaving and he's trying to defend himself.
Um, so to me, you know, obviously I'm not a lawyer, but just as a rational minded person who has no skin in the game, I'm looking at this and I don't understand why they arrested this man and are pursuing charges for murder when he's clearly You know, trying to defend himself.
Then there's the second part, which I really don't get into the article, but I'm watching the state of New York actively try to fight this ruling that was put through the Supreme Court for the rules about concealed carry.
And I'm looking at a state that's trying to prevent people from protecting themselves ultimately.
And here's a man.
Who's not breaking any laws, who has a weapon to protect himself that is not a firearm, and he uses it in a legit situation to protect himself, yet the guy who's literally a criminal, who is out on parole, who dies from committing a criminal act, assault is a criminal act, the man who's trying to protect his life is the one who's being punished.
And to me, you know, we spoke about this on the radio, if it wasn't for that camera footage, We don't know what would happen to Jose Alba or if we would even be talking about him.
But that footage is so clear.
You can see that this man is innocent.
He's not the instigator.
And without that footage, who knows what would happen to this man or if there would even be anybody who is on his side to defend him.
You know, you have something in your article that jumped out at me, and I said this was a very, very astute observation.
Not many people would have picked it up.
And it is the change in response time that the New York City Police Department has from about two years ago.
And response time to me when I was the mayor and in law enforcement was something I looked to every week.
Are we improving our response time?
Are we increasing our response time?
Because often it can be a matter of life and death.
So I'm in a police car with my partner.
We get a call.
It's a robbery in progress or a crime in progress.
We can rush to that scene as fast as we can get there.
We could rush in.
We can get in there in the middle of the shooting.
Possibly get shot ourselves, possibly shoot someone, possibly make a mistake, or not even make a mistake, but become a defendant, right?
When police have lost their morale, response time slows down.
And they end up putting Mr. Alba in the situation Mr. Alba was in.
When Simon pushed him and started smacking him around, There was nobody helping him.
In fact, the girlfriend joined the attack.
And I think that's at the point at which she started stabbing at him.
So he's really literally being attacked by boyfriend inside, who's much bigger than him, younger, much better condition, and the woman outside who's attacking him.
And that response time is a function of our policing really being very, very I think very defective right now in New York.
Police feel what you're saying, that they're going to be blamed for situations that they didn't create.
But let's go back to the beginning of this for a moment because this really begins with the girlfriend.
Right?
It begins with her coming into the store and she wanted to buy, uh, I think it was a dollar 75 was the cost of the candy that she wanted.
And she gave, she gave him a card and the card didn't work.
It didn't either.
There's no money on that card or the card didn't work.
And you can hear her get very, very angry.
You hear words in the background, Then she goes back and she gets her boyfriend.
We don't know where he was, if he was in the apartment, if he was outside.
And then the next thing that you see is you see him come in and go behind the counter.
So I'm going to take a little break and we're going to play that all for the listener.
Oh, you have me?
I think you have... I think you have...
That's not my fault!
You're not working!
That's not my fault!
You're not working!
The machine is not working!
Why you finish? It's false. Why you finish? Man, can you hear me? It's a disaster.
Come on, man. What you do?
That's not my fault. You're not working. That's not my fault. You're not working.
Come on.
You're not working.
You're not working.
I am.
You're not working.
The machine is not working. The car is not working. What the f***?
Come on, Papi. Look. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come out.
What's up with you?
I don't want a problem, papa.
What the f***? What is wrong with you?
I know two and a half years from now, I'll f***ing kill you.
Why you smash anything I ain't...
I'm sorry.
He's coming here.
I know.
You You
You Excellent.
Thank you.
He's not going to let go of us.
He came here for his own free shot, let go.
He can't have his own free shot, let go.
Now that we've seen it, we'll take a short break and we'll be right back.
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Thank you for returning to my interview with Adam Coleman about the Alba situation.
Adam Coleman, who is the author of an excellent, excellent book, which I strongly recommend.
I have it right here on my Kindle, and I will tell you why I put books on Kindles.
So I can underline them and go back and read them again.
If I underline them in a book, I have to go through every page, but then I have like a very, very nice Very nice, uh, sort of outline of your book.
And I must say it's, uh, it's written in a way that's both authoritative and, um, and interesting and keeps your, I'm sure it's doing quite well and, um, puts a lot of things that are going on in our society and perspective.
So, so tell us now how you analyze what everyone just saw.
Um, you know, part of me wants to say entitlement, um, you know, you don't have money to purchase something.
You can't be upset at the person who works at the place that you're trying to purchase it.
Um, to me that it's a level of entitlement.
Uh, you know, was he supposed to just let her child just take the merchandise anyways, even though she doesn't have any money cause it's a kid.
Um, you know, I don't, I don't fully understand.
From her perspective, because here's the thing.
She's the one who dragged the boyfriend there into that situation.
She could have easily gone home and just had no chips and moved on and the man would still be alive.
And I find it also interesting that she was never charged for assaulting Alba, by the way, even though he was stabbed by her.
Isn't that kind of interesting?
That's defended by, I guess, leaks from the district attorney's office saying they thought that she was defending her boyfriend, but of course her boyfriend was committing a crime and therefore she was helping him in the commission of the crime.
It seems to me they have a very hard time Locating the victim and the perpetrator.
They seem to get very confused.
I mean, she was assisting her boyfriend in trying to beat up, kill, harm, hurt Ms.
Talbot.
Right.
It's almost like they're acting like the assault never existed because he ended up dying.
You know, but it doesn't matter that he died.
What matters is that he assaulted while he was still alive, and she was in the commission.
She was assisting in that assault, or at least participating in it.
And there's no way to know when something like this starts, as we've seen many, many
Like, you go back to George Floyd.
There was no way to know it was going to end up the way it did when it starts.
But when these things start, there's no way to know how they're going to end up.
And then you have to judge them by, what are you faced with?
I thought in the article you asked a very, very good question, that I think if there's ever a trial, And I hope that's not.
His lawyer is going to ask, and that is, the question was, what should he have done in that situation?
Having been confronted by Simon comes in, Simon throws him down.
Simon is on top of him.
Simon is clearly in, looks like he's a pretty strong guy, tough guy.
He looks older than his years.
I hope he's not insulted, but he, he looks older and a little more frail than he actually is in terms of age, but it doesn't look like much of a fair contest.
Let's put it that way.
And now he can either let Simon Beat the heck out of him, which could have resulted in serious injuries, could have resulted in death, or he could fight back.
There really wasn't much of a choice.
Yeah, I mean, as you saw in my book, I'm obsessed with questions, but I think questions force somebody else to answer it because we're always trying to place our ideas on people or place our agendas on people.
And so for me, you know, writing that article, if just hypothetically, if Bragg is sitting there reading
it, I wanted my question to be to him because
as a district attorney, what should a citizen of New York City do when faced with an immediate threat?
There is no police around.
You have two people.
One is armed.
The other one has already assaulted you and is preventing you from leaving.
What should he have done?
Should he have risked his life by someone who already has a violent history, who's out on parole, who has no regard for the law as he's violating his parole by assaulting someone?
Uh, what should he have done?
Should he have just hoped that the man got tired and gave up and took some chips and left?
Or maybe the guy would have killed him.
You know, why should we leave, um, why should we leave our, our destiny into the hands of someone else?
Why aren't we allowed to protect ourselves?
And I don't think that'll ever be a question that's going to be answered by the district attorney.
But it's a hypothetical question that I wanted to lay out there for anybody who's reading it.
Because ultimately, we like to think that in the most perfect situation, I would have done X, Y, and Z with this situation.
But here, we have something that is happening at a very short timeframe that is very intense.
When you're being physically assaulted, your adrenaline's going.
You know, everything's happening really quick.
You have to make split decisions.
He has a knife in his hand.
What should he have done?
Should he have dropped the knife?
You know, should he have just let somebody take his life into their hands and show mercy to him or no mercy?
You know, I don't think that is a society that I want to live in where I have to live by the whims of a criminal who just, you know, put some mercy on me to let me live.
I don't want that.
And especially, we are dealing with a crime wave within New York.
We are dealing with a crime wave in many places.
We are seeing a demoralized police force within New York City as they're rapidly choosing to retire, not getting enough recruits to come in.
This is going to be a bigger and bigger problem for the city and for the people that live within the city, especially people who live in high crime areas who are facing danger And they're not allowed to carry any weapons, or at least any firearms, that are effective at stopping the threat.
And there's a mental health crisis.
You have all these things that are building up within the city.
It's like a powder keg.
And this situation, to me, is almost like how the political left used George Floyd as this is a marker of what racial tensions exist within the country, right?
To me, this situation is the marker of self-defense in the city of New York.
And if Jose Alba gets convicted of this, that is your answer as a citizen of the city.
That the district attorney would rather find ways to let out criminals, to avoid prosecution for the woman who stabbed Jose Alba, to do all of these things, to prosecute a man who was just doing his job and under immediate threat and defended himself.
What hope do you have for you?
This crime was on camera.
Most crimes aren't, right?
Most self-defenses aren't on camera, right?
Are you going to leave that into the hands of DA Bragg?
And that is the unfortunate reality that we're going to be faced with within the city.
You know, the question that you raise with that is this.
Why doesn't Bragg have the same, I don't know what to call it, very, very liberal, very generous feeling about Mr. Alba that he has for most others?
If he thinks that Alba is the perpetrator and the criminal, He lets most criminals go free, right?
And when he doesn't let them go free, he's actually argued for the minimum penalties.
Remember his very first memo that he wrote, which was really shocking, was that people shouldn't basically be prosecuted for armed robbery unless they hurt somebody.
So if you walk in and you hold up somebody's store and you don't shoot someone, you basically go free.
So why does Alba, even before you analyze it, a complex situation, why does this guy become like the first criminal that Bragg decides to go after and give him the highest possible charge?
In other words, when do you get into Bragg's sweet spot and become the criminal he wants to take care of?
So if I think with my logical brain, it doesn't make any sense.
But if I'm to try to find some sort of answer as to why, the only thing I could come up with is we've painted, and maybe this is true for some people, but we've painted People who have long criminal histories with high levels of empathy because maybe they grew up in a broken home and poverty and all these different things.
Maybe they first got locked up in jail for a certain period of time because they couldn't afford a good lawyer.
And this is a reality.
Yes.
And I understand people challenging bail and wanting some sort of bail reform and maybe trying to find a fair system.
You know, should your life be held in prison because you can't afford to get out?
Like, I understand those arguments.
So the only thing I can think of is he holds more sympathy for the career criminal because he sees them as unfortunate, you know, coming from whatever background that he assumes that he comes from, or maybe he knows that he comes from.
He has more empathy for that person.
than the law-abiding citizen of this country who maybe has more privileges, who maybe had more
whatever, who prevented a young child from having chips.
You know, I don't, you know, that's the thing that I guess surprised me from the very beginning was
Mr. Bragg, who's at least was quite honest about what he was going to do as district attorney.
Some of these people like him, he's part of a group of maybe 30 or 40 district attorneys who've been elected all around the country based on funding from George Soros, but substantial funding, like a million dollars, $2 million.
District attorney's races are generally a couple hundred thousand dollars.
They're not like mayor's races or governor's races or sometimes people don't even spend any money on them.
So you put a million or two million dollars into a DA's race, that's like putting two hundred million dollars into a mayor's race.
So he's part of a group, but he announced right in advance what he was going to do.
And he could have been either removed or threatened with removal by the governor, because the New York Constitution has a provision, which is Article 8, Section 13, that says that the governor shall remove a district attorney who doesn't enforce the law.
Or he can supersede him.
He can put somebody in to prosecute that particular case.
She and the mayor should have warned him that they were going to do that.
Why are they so reluctant to step into a situation where they have a 40% increase in crime?
The day before this interview we're doing, in other words, last night, five people were murdered in New York City.
Just last night.
Why is there no accountability for his refusing to enforce the laws the way they were written by the legislature?
He doesn't get to make the laws.
So the only answer I really have is that it's politics.
I think that there has just been a general denial of the reality because the reality doesn't favor your particular politics.
And in this situation, we're talking about the Democrats within the state of New York.
Um, right now they're not looking to go after another Democrat.
Um, so we're, we're not going to have that situation of actually upholding the law, um, upholding the New York state constitution.
Um, we're going to play party politics.
We're going to pretend that everything is fine.
Uh, there really isn't a crime wave.
What are you talking about?
Um, and it reminds me of, of a lot of these like elitists when, when you would see video after video after video.
of stores being broken into, riots breaking out in cities, and they're taking a video.
Over here, everything is fine.
I don't see any riots.
As if, because in your plush area that you live at, that there is no problem, that means that there is no problem after all.
It's that kind of removal from reality.
And a lot of this is what I talk about a lot.
A lot of this is a class element.
They have no problem pretending that there's nothing wrong as long as the crime happens in certain areas, as long as the violence, as long as the chaos happens somewhere else.
It's why I wrote that article.
I can't remember, the assemblywoman that they were talking about who moved to the financial district away from Harlem, right?
But then wants to defund the police.
It's that kind of, you know, she moved specifically because the crime was getting worse.
And then later on, she's like, we should defund the police.
It's that kind of elitist mentality that I really can't stand.
And I do see a class element when it comes to a lot of this on top of a party element But trust and believe, if certain areas of New York City were being ransacked, attacked,
Robbed on a consistent basis.
I think they would have more fuel in their rocket ship to do something about it.
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
You know, when I first became mayor, which is now almost, almost seems like it was in the time of Abraham Lincoln, but it was a long time ago.
And I remember I moved The police.
Because they had them assigned almost by precinct.
And I moved them to the places where the crimes were.
So the original reaction was that I put too many police in black and Hispanic areas.
And I started thinking, well, let me think about it.
So I held a town hall meeting.
And the people at the town hall meeting, the people that live there, not the politicians who were complaining about me, were angry at me for not having put enough police there.
I mean, there's a, there's a disconnect even in the poorer areas between the people.
I mean, they want more police because they're the ones like Mr. Bragg who are going to have difficulty defending themselves.
And somehow we have to break through this.
And I think your, your book is a great step in that direction.
I think your article is, and I think you are.
I grew up with my mom and my sister.
Um, and my childhood was, um, not chaotic, but just had no stability.
And so I always wanted to not be my father.
I always wanted to be the father that I thought I would have wanted when I was a kid.
So, you know, my son is extremely important to me.
I try my best to communicate with him all the time.
Um, you know, I tell him no matter what's going on, you can always talk to me about it.
Um, if you mess up, let's just talk about it.
Let's just get past and move on.
Um, and I, and I always, that's, that's what I, what I've, excuse me.
That's what, what I've wanted, um, when I was a kid, uh, and he's much, he is, he's the better version of me.
He's smarter.
He's better looking, you know, and, and I'm extremely, extremely proud.
Um, and, and you know what, at the age of 16, he is far ahead of me that when I was 16.
And I put a lot of that into myself as a father and to his mother.
He has a great mother, um, for fostering him to, to grow into what he wants to, wants to become one day.
I'm so, I'm so happy to hear that.
That makes my day.
I'll tell you.
Well, Adam, we're going to stay in close touch.
And once again, I highly recommend your book.
I think, uh, it's one that is, it's necessary to read it.
And then how do people stay in touch with you, uh, uh, uh, in, on social, on social media?
I'm the most active on Twitter.
So at wrong underscore speak.
Um, I'm also on Instagram.
Um, and you can find me on Facebook, wrong speak, Adam, uh, wrong speak.
Okay.
Yeah.
Wrong speak.
Uh, you can go to wrong speak.net, uh, read articles that I've written.
Um, and, and I'm trying to help, um, platform other writers as well.
Um, And yeah, for the most part, go to wrongspeak.net.
You can find everything about me.
I'm continually writing for the New York Post.
I actually have an article coming out tonight.
Ah!
Well, we'll look forward to it.
Yeah.
And I've written for other publications, Newsweek, Federalist, and a whole bunch of others.
So, like I said, when I first started this journey, I had no expectations.
So, everything that's come my way has been a blessing.
Well, you're going in the right direction.
God bless you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Well, I hope you enjoyed that interview with Adam as much as I did and were fascinated by it.
I think this young man, and to me he's a young man, is really...
He's symbolic, really, of a lot of young men that I've met, black men that I've met, who have a very serious understanding, better than most anyone, about what's really going on with victimization and how it's been used and how people have been manipulated and how you have to get out of that.
I mean, I think that sometimes when you're not deeply involved and you're watching this from the outside, the left wing defines the black community for others.
And, you know, they define it as a community that That wouldn't be able to get identification to vote.
Therefore, they have to be protected.
Of course, that was blown up by a terrific set of interviews done by a gentleman, I've forgotten his name, but it's still online, when he went up to Harlem and he asked people in Harlem, you know, do you have identification?
They almost threw him out of Harlem.
What, do you think we are stupid?
Do we have identification?
Of course we have identification.
You need identification to get on an airplane.
You need identification to do anything.
You need a driver's license in order to do this and that.
The other thing, do you actually know where the Motor Vehicle Bureau is?
Would you like me to walk you there?
I mean, the reality is that the American left A presentation and way in which they deal with the black community is
It's probably one of the most virulent forms of racism we have in America.
I mean, we can see it with Joe Biden, right?
And his language.
I mean, his language as a young man, his son's language, his condescending remarks, the whole way in which he wants to paint a picture of a systemically racist America, that all of us are racist, which I think comes out of his own sense of himself.
So when you see someone like Adam, who's, you know, an example of, I would say, the vast majority of blacks in America.
I'm not saying they're all conservative, obviously not a Republican, but I mean, in terms of point of view.
And you see the offense they're now taking at the way in which the Democrats and the liberals and left-wingers have infantilized them.
It's a very, very strong reaction and comes from very, very intelligent people and very strong people.
And it gives you great hope that this country can be united on very strong principles that go beyond race and that maybe we've gone through a bad period and we're going through a bad period but we're going to end up where Martin Luther King Jr.
wanted us and that is where we judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.
Well, we've covered quite a bit today.
I think we've opened a subject that has to be opened, it has to be discussed, and it's one in which, if we can find unity, if we can rise above the race baiting and the race separation that is being done by the left, that is being done by the socialists and the Marxists and the communists, this is their separation for class, that Marx wanted to use race, if we can overcome it, With strong people like Adam and strong people of all different races and religions understanding that at the core we're all children of God and we end up in a pretty equal distribution of some wonderful, wonderful, great people within our groups.
Some very good people, some average people, some bad ones and some evil ones.
And that has nothing to do with the color of your skin.
Or your ethnic background.
Or the things on which people get into these sick, irrational prejudices.
We've got a good deal of America there already.
They're trying to ruin it for us because they want to use it as a political lever to change our form of government and our way of life and we're just not going to let them do that.
So you stick with RudyGiulianiCS.com.
RudyGiulianiCS.com.
Send me a couple of notes about what you think.
Send me a couple of suggestions on things you'd like us to cover.
I try very, very hard to look for the things you might not get anywhere else and the perspectives and facts That are being hidden from you in this society of censorship that we now live in.
But there are a lot of things that I'm going to miss, except for you.
So, keep in contact.
Let me know what you're thinking.
And let me know what you'd like me to cover, and what information you'd like me to go out there and get for you, because I'm pretty good at that.
Well, thank you.
I want to thank Adam again.
I have to tell you, I leave an interview like that, heartened, about the future of America.
Well, God bless you, and God bless America.
We'll see you in a very short while.
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