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Feb. 2, 2022 - Rudy Giuliani
52:08
Victim’s Family Cries for Help from DA and Has a Message for the Black and Brown Communities| Ep 209
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Hello, this is Rudy Giuliani, and I'm back with another episode of Rudy's Common Sense.
Today's episode is going to take a look at a specific case that illustrates, maybe better than any other, the horrible damage being done by this bail reform law.
Now, it is one isolated case, but it represents thousands and thousands of others, and many experts believe That this bail reform change, where thousands of criminals are out on the street that otherwise would be held for trial or sentenced appropriately after trial, this is what's causing the crime wave in this country.
I mean, there are literally thousands and thousands of these people who four or five years ago would have been in prison, who are now out on the street, and we can't be ignorant of the fact that 16 states last year set a record for homicide.
In other words, never before in the history of that state had so many people been murdered.
That's 16 states.
And the ones that didn't set a record did pretty poorly.
For example, Illinois, Chicago, upwards of 700-800 murders.
That was one of their worst years in 20.
New York, its worst year in 10.
Just not quite a record.
Los Angeles, one of its worst years.
When I tell you 16 set a record, there's another 16 that had enormous numbers of particularly murder and violent crime.
It is an epidemic.
And if we're worried about the COVID pandemic, I'll give you one fact that maybe should wake you up.
More children were shot and killed in Chicago than died of COVID.
And it's happening right now.
Well, we have with us a woman who has really been put through something, something I think might be a nightmare for any of you that are parents.
I had nightmares about this, about my children.
I still do.
And I'm going to have her tell her story because she tells it better than anyone.
And then we'll go into all of the implications of it.
And there are plenty.
But let me say at the beginning, this is a woman of great courage, and I really admire the fact that she's here telling her story.
So I'm going to have you introduce yourself, tell us who you are, and then you tell us what happened to your son.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
My name is Madeline Brame, and I am the chairwoman of the Victims' Rights Reform Council.
I'm also the state director of Blexit New York.
And I am also the mother of a homicide victim.
My son's name is Sergeant Hassan Karia.
He's an Afghanistan War retired veteran who was murdered in Harlem in 2018 by four people he did not know, nor had he done them any harm.
Hassan was stabbed 11 times.
He died at the scene from a stab wound to his heart.
So this happened in November of 2018.
Yes.
years later and four people were involved. So from what you know from the indictment and on
the court proceedings and tell us a little bit of what happened. It was two brothers, a sister
and a fourth person that were involved in one way or another in killing your son.
And if I'm correct now, the brothers were James and Christopher Saunders,
the woman was Mary Saunders and then there was a fourth person named Travis Stewart.
Yes.
So tell us just a little bit, we don't need all the details, because really we're mostly concerned about the bail part of this.
Yes.
But tell us just a little bit about the crime itself.
And I understand you have not seen the photos.
No.
And the photos are described by one of the judges in the case as very, very explicit.
Yes.
In other words, very clear.
Almost like high definition.
Okay.
These are four people that Hassan did not know, nor had he done them any harm.
Just a family of killers is what they are.
A family of killers.
They got involved into something that they, you know, were not involved in.
They jumped into, you know, an altercation that happened earlier in the evening.
These people, the men, are career criminals.
The men are currently incarcerated on Rikers Island.
They're being held without bail.
They're charged with first-degree gang assault and second-degree murder, as is Mary Saunders, charged with first-degree gang assault and second-degree murder.
This murder was captured on high-def video.
So let's first set the scene.
This is near what used to be the Polo Grounds in the old days of New York.
Tell us approximately where in New York.
152nd and 8th Avenue, 32nd Precinct.
32nd Precinct, which we should tell everyone is the precinct in which the two officers were just recently killed.
And it is the precinct that I believe has the most police shootings in history.
Yes.
So it's a dangerous area.
But in any event, There had been an altercation involving Sgt.
Hassan's father.
Not him.
With a person unknown.
A completely unrelated person.
Earlier in the evening.
And then Sgt.
Hassan went back with his dad.
They were relaxing in his dad's apartment.
And in essence, these four individuals show up.
James and Travis.
James, Travis, and Mary.
No, Mary stood on a step.
James and Travis came to the door of the apartment where Hassan and his dad were and knocked on the door.
And they basically called his father out.
Yes.
And his father is a very big man.
Six foot five, very big and imposing man.
Yes.
But he was now involved with three or four people.
Yes.
And a fight started.
Hassan was inside, but then his father was in trouble.
And Hassan came out to try to help his father.
Yes.
At some point, his father was hit over the head.
With a full bottle of Hennessy.
With a full bottle of Hennessy that knocked him, despite how big he was, knocked him out.
Knocked him out, yes.
And then James, James Saunders got involved with Hassan.
Yes.
And they ganged up on him.
Hassan punched him.
Hassan punched him to defend his father himself.
And James fell down.
Mary grabs one arm.
Travis grabbed the other arm.
James gets up with the knife and starts plunging it into Hassan's stomach.
And although I haven't seen the tape, I am told that this is quite clear on the tape.
Oh yeah.
There's not any doubt that, and it's also not much doubt that Mary was holding it.
Absolutely.
Making it possible for James to stab him multiple times, which which is what killed him ultimately, right?
And then Christopher runs out of their apartment because their building, they live right next door
to the apartment that Hassan and his father were in.
And I guess they were making noise or whatever.
And Christopher comes running out and he joins in.
So he joins in, he joins in basically the ganging up on Sergeant Hassan Karia.
Just so everyone knows who we're talking about.
I think they have it clear now.
So he's ganged up on.
Yeah.
At that point, he was stabbed five times.
Five to six times in the torso.
Right.
All right.
Because he's fighting.
Hassan was a personal physical trainer at Crunch Gym.
All right.
He was also a combat soldier in Afghanistan.
So he knew how to defend himself.
Okay.
And he was able to break free from the grip of Mary and Travis with Christopher punching.
He was able to get in some punches because we want to understand that there's some blood, you know, a broken nose and different things that he You know, so he was able to fight.
But during this fighting that's going on where he's being held, the knife is being used by James, the only one using the knife as far as we know.
I don't know.
As far as we know, James was the only one using a knife.
And he knifed him at this point at least five times.
Five times.
Do you have any description of the knife?
Big knife, small knife?
It was a hunter's knife.
A hunter's knife?
Yes, my daughter-in-law actually saw the video.
And she said that Madeline, he got up with that knife and you could see the knife clear as day on the video.
It was a long, a big knife.
A hunter's knife.
And he stabbed it in the side.
The first stab was in Hassan's side.
Despite that, Hassan somehow breaks away.
Yes.
Runs into the street.
And how far does he run?
Past the cars, because you know that the cars are probably out there.
You know, past the cars, into the middle of the street.
So he's running away now, he's trying to get away to save his life.
To save his life, exactly.
Who actually, who runs after him?
Mary.
Is Mary the only one to run after him?
Yes.
So, I mean, it appears as if, if she had left it alone, this might have ended.
Yes.
Whatever, with the five wounds.
He may have collapsed in the street, okay?
He may have collapsed in the street, but I do honestly believe if Mary hadn't have You know, chased him and, uh... No, she continued it.
Yes, and then they piled on him and started kicking, punching, stomping.
So, in essence, she wasn't satisfied with the damage that was done to him.
No.
With the five stab wounds, at least, and the kicking and whatever else was going on.
She goes after him.
He collapses at some point because he's losing blood profusely.
Yeah.
And then she is on him, and then the others come over.
Yeah.
Including James?
James.
And Christopher?
Christopher.
And Travis.
And Travis.
And the four of them, according to my daughter-in-law, because she's the only one who saw the video besides the district attorneys and the detectives.
Right.
And the judge.
Yeah, and the judge.
And they're all just kicking and punching and stomping.
And James is continuing to stab.
And you see Hassan's head pop up maybe once or twice.
That's probably when he jabbed him, you know, and Hassan, you know, probably from pain or whatever.
Christie said she saw his head pop up.
They piled on top of him and she said she saw his head pop up.
This is after having stabbed him five times.
Yes.
He must have been bleeding.
Yeah, of course he was bleeding.
And now they stab him because the ultimate number is 11.
They stab him another six times.
Yes.
And then it ends.
Yes.
And, and he.
And then Hassan's father regains conscious and he comes.
Oh, you see him come back in.
Yes.
He comes back in.
to the frame of the video and he goes over to try to pull them off of Hassan and the three men turned around and did the same thing to him.
They beat him, knifed him.
How many times was he knifed?
Twelve.
Twelve times.
Twelve times.
And the video at that point shows Hassan stood up.
From what I understand, Hassan still stood up.
Oh my goodness.
Oh, this is terrible.
Again.
Yes, and then he just dropped right there in the street.
Yes, that's what it was.
He bled out.
He bled out, but it was from the death certificate says a stab wound to the heart.
They run away.
the street and did he bleed out was that essentially the way he was he bled out
he bled out but it was from the the death certificate says a stab wound to
the heart so now these these four people get arrested they run away they run away
immediately yeah they run away from the scene And if Mary Saunders was so concerned, it wouldn't have taken her 10 days to turn herself in after she heard that the police were looking for her.
Were her brothers and the other gentlemen... They wanted to run.
Was she the first arrested?
Yes.
So she's the first.
They're eventually all arrested.
Yes.
And let's focus on her.
The others have...
They're being held currently on Rikers Island with no bail.
Yes.
They're being held currently on Rikers Island with no bail.
Now, she is originally given a bail of $750,000.
Yes.
And she makes applications to reduce that bail.
And the main one, I think, the main one that I looked over was December 18, 2019.
Yes.
And it was before Judge Ellen Beaven.
Yes.
And the assistant district attorney pointed out that it's all captured on video,
that the case is very clear.
Here's a very clear case.
Yes.
There'll be a lot of witnesses, but they're not going to really be necessary because of the tape.
The judge herself described, having looked at the video, it is very brutal, that you can make out the 11 stab You can basically count the stab wounds.
And that Mary Saunders had it.
It shows her involvement the way it was described.
Significant exposure.
That's exactly what it shows.
Significant exposure in a very serious crime.
And then she goes on to say very serious exposure.
Meaning what we were describing.
In some ways you could say She was the instigator of the second round that went on.
That may have been the round that killed him.
And there's a big discussion.
As I read it, it sounds like the judge is not going to reduce her bail because the judge is pointing out how guilty she is.
And then all of a sudden the bail gets reduced to $12,000, which is conveniently the amount they can afford.
And she walks out of jail.
Scott Free.
Yep.
A few little restrictions on her.
Yeah.
But I think she was able to go back to work too, right?
Yes.
And now the case is dragging on.
Three years.
Three years?
Three years.
And, um... She's been out on bail for two.
She's been out on bail for two years.
And, and... Walking in and out of that courtroom... And Sergeant Hassan Correa has been dead for two... For three.
For three years now.
She was previously incarcerated for 14 months.
Because they had a bail on her of $750,000.
Her family couldn't make that bail.
Now, they put in three separate bail reduction applications which were denied because of the heinousness and the brutality of the crime.
And at times, this is described to you during the process as, there's nothing we can do because this is the law.
This is the law.
This is the law that originally was Sponsored by Governor Cuomo.
Absolutely.
To allow everybody out on bail.
I mean almost everybody out on bail, right?
And then the one that Governor Hochul has endorsed and actually expanded.
Exactly.
Made it even easier for more people to go out on bail.
And tell us your, what has this done to you?
How do you feel about this?
And then what did it lead you to do?
Because you've done something very positive about this that's going to help a lot of people.
Yeah.
You know, uh, what it did is, uh, Hassan's death is just a catalyst that kind of propelled me into all of this.
Um, they kept telling me that they couldn't help me.
I couldn't get an order of protection.
I couldn't be moved, you know, because this woman is out who just killed my son and there's no provisions, there's no safeguards in place that will protect me, my other sons, All my grandchildren.
And you don't even know the motive for this.
I don't.
There was none.
But there was none.
These people could be insane.
These people could have some kind of an insane grudge against you and your family.
Something.
I mean, this was very, very... But no one took that into consideration when they decided to let this person out of jail for murder and currently walking the streets, you know, Amongst us.
And now at the same time, you're going through the horrible nightmare of a mother losing her son.
Tell us a little about Sergeant Hassan.
You know, Hassan was... He was how old at this point now?
35.
35.
Hassan was 35 when he died.
He was an amazing young man.
You know, he boxed at the Trinidad Golden Gloves Boxing Camp in Puerto Rico.
He went to Bayamón Military Academy in Puerto Rico.
When he moved to New York, he was in middle school.
He did well through school.
He graduated high school and everything.
He came to live with me in the Bronx, and he loved Guitar Hero.
He stayed in the room playing Guns N' Roses, Sweet Child O' Mine, over and over again.
Every time I hear the song, I cry.
Because it reminds me of Hassan, the way he... So he basically grew up in the Bronx.
He grew up in Puerto Rico.
He grew up in Puerto Rico!
He was born in Puerto Rico.
He was born in Puerto Rico and grew up in Puerto Rico and then spent time with you in the Bronx.
Yes.
Right before he went to the military.
He had a conversation with me one day about, you know, having to get out of here because, you know, He didn't want to get in any trouble and stuff like that because of what was going on, like drugs and gangs.
Where was the neighborhood in the Bronx that you were showing us?
Vice Avenue, South Bronx.
Okay, yeah, sure.
Right off of Southern Boulevard in the South Bronx.
And he went on and he enlisted in the Army.
And he did very well.
And then when he got out of the Army, did he come back and live with you or did he go back?
No.
He was married.
Hassan has a wife.
Oh, okay.
So now he's married, okay.
Hassan has a wife and three children.
They lived in Massachusetts.
And his wife's name is?
Her name is Christy.
Christy.
Yes.
And my three grandchildren are Jason, Jordan, and Jelani.
As a result of this, they're going to never have a dad.
Never have a dad.
Never have a dad.
And because Hassan was, his death was not combat related.
They're not eligible for none of his benefits.
None of his VA benefits.
Oh, my goodness.
They may collect a little bit of Social Security that he may have been eligible for, but Christy is doing a tremendous job.
I'm super proud of my daughter-in-law.
You know, she just took the bull by the horns, and she works two or three jobs if she has to, to take care of these children.
You know, and I help her as much as I can.
Help her as much as I can.
And tell us what you do.
I am actually a receptionist at a garment, a fashion designer here in Midtown.
That's what I do.
You know, I have a small puppy.
Her name is Coco.
She's about 18 weeks old and she is the bane of my existence.
How are you doing?
It's only through the grace of God.
Only through God's grace and mercy that I'm even able to function.
At any, at this level, period.
Yeah.
It's an out of body experience.
It's, I'm running off.
I think any, I think anyone listening to this that's a parent knows something.
They don't know what you're going through unless they've been through it, but they feel it.
This is a nightmare we all have, isn't it?
Yes.
That we're going to lose one of ours.
Yes.
But to lose it this way and the injustice of it makes it, doesn't it make, it makes it worse.
I'm tormented.
I'm tormented and I'm tortured, you know.
Now, but you decided at some point, not just to live with this, but to do something about it.
Absolutely.
Which I think is a wonderful example for people out there.
Because I've seen this, I've seen a lot of crime, unfortunately, over the years.
And a lot of tragedy.
And I think when people do something about it, it changes a lot.
So tell us how you decided that you wanted to do something about this.
I decided because I see too much death and destruction going on around me, right?
I see a lot of our elected officials and our political leaders selling us out, all right?
Especially in the black and brown communities.
They talk a good game, they get funding for stuff, they promise things, and they never do it.
They never do it.
Even down to heat and hot water in buildings of basic need.
They focus on the gun violence.
I get it.
Gun violence is a thing.
But there's so many other categories of crime that are just out of control in New York City.
There are victims that are just piling up.
There are senior citizens being mugged and robbed for the $30 in their cell phone.
There are women coming home from work getting raped in elevators.
Okay, there are children getting beat up.
There are 92-year-old, you know, senior citizens walking down the street randomly being punched in the face, right?
These low-level offenses that Alvin Bragg is talking about not wanting to prosecute, okay, are the crimes that lead to the bigger You know, the theory that you just expounded is one that was developed in 1981 by a professor at Harvard named James Q. Wilson.
It's the broken window theory.
And you just described it as well or better than he did.
You just did an excellent job of describing it.
Now, Alvin Bragg is not all by himself.
There are about 30, 40 Alvin Braggs all over the country put there by George Soros.
And we have experience with them now.
And so Bragg has only been with us now for a couple of weeks.
These other people, like the one in Los Angeles, 50% increase in homicide.
All over the country, we've got records being set for homicide.
By exactly the Soros district attorneys who let people out every chance they get.
So how are you trying to help get this changed?
Because so many people want to change it.
They just don't seem to know what to do.
Well, you know, it starts at a deeper level because African-Americans in the minority community, in any poor community where we are faced with what we see happening, All right.
It starts way before it actually gets to, you know, a court or a precinct or police contact.
All right.
One of the things that I would really like to convey to my brothers and sisters, all right, is that we really have to start focusing on what's going on within the four walls of our homes when it comes to raising our children.
I cannot tell anybody what to do.
All right.
Um, I'm not trying to tell anybody what to do, but I know that to raise a decent, you know, um, young person, it takes sacrifice.
It takes work.
It takes being involved in every aspect of their school, getting down to the PTA, going to see the principal, encouraging them to play sports, investing in them, following up on social media, making sure that they're not exposing themselves to stuff that they have no business exposing themselves to, and it starts there.
Make even down to basics.
Making sure that there's toilet paper in the house.
Making sure that there's food in there.
Making sure the house is clean.
Making sure the laundry is done.
And this is where we have to break it all the way down.
You're really talking about a really basic broken window steering.
The little things.
Those little things are critically important in the child feeling important and loved.
And making them feel like it's safe and it's okay to be at home.
Instead of in the street, gravitating towards gangs.
You know, thinking that that's cool.
Thinking that carrying a gun and smoking sour and drinking codeine is cool.
All right?
Because that's what we see happening to our young people.
All right?
They're influenced by something called drill music.
Well, let's take a short break on that, and we'll be right back.
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Welcome back.
We're going to continue our conversation with Madeline and And talk about what happened.
I just want to get a little bit more about your son and also the influences on your other son.
So, Sergeant Hassan Correa obviously had grown up.
He was in the military.
He escaped a lot of the perils that could have happened to him because you paid attention to him as a parent.
And your advice really is that's the main thing.
Now tell me about your other son.
Your other son came to you somewhat more recently about this kind of music.
Drill music.
Drill music.
D-R-I-L-L music.
And Drill Ops.
And Drill Ops.
Yes.
And what is that?
It's like a special operation that all the wild shootouts that you see in the past.
Sure, sure, sure, sure.
Those are called Drill Ops on other rival gangs over rap lyrics that they put up on YouTube.
Why does rap have this connection to all of this violence?
There's no question that it does.
I mean, it's been going on for 20 years, right?
The shootings and the... What's the... It's imagery, right?
It's imagery.
It's cool.
I asked Ayumi, that's my son's name, the one who just went to the army.
I asked him, what is it about?
He said, because it's cool.
He said, it's almost like a badge of honor, you know?
The badge of honor to be involved in some of the violence.
Yes, and to shoot.
And to have a gun and all that stuff.
So you're like, if you don't shoot, you're not like a tough guy.
You're not like a real guy.
You're not a real man.
You haven't put in any work, but that is a, you know, old adage for gangbangers, putting in work, you know.
But this drill op is something different because it's influenced by this smut Drill music.
Dismut rap music.
And basically, what is it telling people to do?
What's it encouraging them to do?
Shoot each other.
Yes.
Shoot each other.
So now we just had a famous case about this, right?
Yes.
We had a rapper who does this to shot a police officer.
Almost killed him.
Yes.
And he also went out on bail.
$250,000.
So he basically shoots a police officer.
Almost kills him.
And now he's walking out on bail.
To go right, they took that gun, but there's five more waiting for him.
And with a DA now that says he can't do more than 20 years in prison, and probably be a lot less than that.
First of all, from what I read in the paper, the $250,000 was from a record deal, right?
So that means that he has to put out more of this drill music.
and carry out more of these drill ops to make it more appealing and more sellable, right?
So, what are the chances of another young black and brown boy or girl catching a bullet?
Chances are pretty good, aren't they?
Oh yeah, very.
So just today or yesterday Roger Goodell of the NFL announced that Snoopy Dog, Snoop Doggy Dog is going to be one of the two primary performers at the NFL Super Bowl, the biggest event of the year.
Now he has a song called Police and he obviously is like an icon in the community and I'm going to read you the lyrics of this.
Leaving out the, you know, kind of the bad words, making them a little... Basically, it's called Police Ready Roger.
All you N as out there, take your guns that you are using to shoot each other and start shooting these B.H.
ass mother effing police.
Start shooting these B.H.
ass mother effing police.
that'll impress a mother-effing N unlike me.
I mean this is and he is going to sing.
He's encouraging them to, instead of shooting each other, shoot God.
Yeah, instead of shooting each other, which is epidemic, you know, in a place like Chicago, the question is, is it going to be five people dead this weekend or 20?
And 70-80% are African-American kids.
So what he's saying to them is don't shoot each other, shoot cops.
Okay, so what he's saying is don't kill each other, but go ahead and shoot a cop and be in prison for the rest of your life.
There used to be terrible consequences to it, but at the same time that they're encouraging them to kill police, we've got the Soros district attorneys basically saying, no matter who you kill, you're never going to do more than 20 and we're going to do everything to keep you out of jail.
So crime has just been going up and up and up and up.
What's going to stop it?
Changing the laws, number one.
Getting people into office that are actually going to care.
Have compassion for victims, getting people in office who are actually going to be good stewards of our money and stop wasting our hard-earned tax dollars on failed initiatives, stuff that does not work.
You know, I wonder, in your experience, One of the reasons I quit the Democratic Party back in the 1970s was I was investigating the Model Cities Administration, which was a great society program to help poor people in Harlem or in poor neighborhoods.
And all of a sudden, I'm investigating it, and the guy who runs it is taking massive bribes.
The number two guy is taking massive bribes.
Everybody else working for Mayor Lindsay is taking bribes.
I was trying to compute how much gets to the poor people.
None.
Very, very little.
None of it ever trickles down.
Look at our school system.
Look at our housing.
30,000 a kid.
30,000 a kid in the New York City school system.
But then they don't have books.
Yeah, well where's it going?
They don't have sports equipment.
Yeah, yeah.
They don't have fields.
They don't have a decent lunch.
30,000 a kid is more than any place in the country.
Exactly.
And our kids are, their performance is horrendous.
They're reading, they cannot read, they cannot write, they don't know basic math.
So Madeline, you understand this and you can speak to this with a lot more power than almost anyone else.
Your organization.
First, you have a basic goal with your organization.
Yes.
And that goal is to change this law.
Yes.
How are you doing with that?
Well, what we're doing is that we are working with a coalition of other victims' rights groups.
Victims' Rights New York with Jennifer Harrison.
Like I mentioned, Michelle Esquenazi.
We have Chinese American coalitions.
We have Informed New York City.
And it's a whole coalition of us, okay?
And we're just regular people who are concerned.
These are people south of 96th Street, okay?
These are not people uptown, all right?
Very few of them from uptown, but they're sick and tired Of seeing what's going on here.
All right.
They're very concerned.
Maybe they might've witnessed some, some, some things, you know, from a homeless person or saw someone be attacked or maybe their child was afraid or something, but it galvanized them.
And also, you know, um, what our primary focus is, is to, uh, lobby.
Oh my goodness, yeah.
I mean, first of all, you can't just attack gun violence because there are a lot of other ways to do violence and then a lot of other ways lead to gun violence.
That's right.
And there are 300 million guns.
come in all forms.
Oh my goodness, yeah.
First of all, you can't just attack gun violence because there are a lot of other ways to do violence
and then a lot of other ways lead to gun violence.
That's right.
There are 300 million guns.
Yes.
So I don't know who's going to seize them all.
You're not going to seize them all.
You've got to change behavior.
If you change behavior, it wouldn't matter if we had a billion, if we had a billion guns.
That's right.
If people didn't use them that way.
Or if we had no guns.
All right.
A killer will find a way to kill.
Yes.
And some of the murder rates in some of the European countries, although they're not quite ours, have gone up quite significantly.
It's not the gun.
It's the mindset behind the trigger.
All right.
That is killing people.
Because a lot of people have legal guns and they don't just walk around shooting people randomly.
The other way to look at it, and you would know this better than anyone, I mean criminals are the least to be affected by gun control.
The criminal is not going to go register their gun.
Because they're going to get it no matter what.
It's the legitimate person who registers their gun.
So what you try to do is to get the law changed.
The big focus right now is HOKL and the bail law.
It's horrendous.
You know, she said something the other day.
She said something the other day.
It has to be half the crime attributed to all those criminals they write up.
You know, she said something the other day.
Oh, she doesn't know what she's talking about.
She said something the other day.
She has to see data that will actually show her that it's the bail reform law that's causing this rising crime.
And then I spoke with someone else and they said, well, there is no data because it hasn't been going on long enough, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I said, you know what all she has to do is look at CompStat, okay?
And just look at the arrest, look at the arrest record.
You are absolutely right!
In just one week, almost 3,000 different crimes in just one week within the five boroughs of New York City.
All right.
So if she wants to see some numbers, tell her to look at Comstat, the arrest record.
All right.
I would also like her to thank me for starting it.
Comstat?
Along with Bratton and Jack Mabel.
But I started Comstat.
And whenever I look at the form, it's extremely familiar because I helped to create it.
The reality is the last three weeks, we set a record.
This is the highest increase in crime.
In the first three weeks of a mayor's administration.
We've never had a 40% increase in crime this quickly.
It is out of control and all she has to do is look at some of the people you were talking about.
The person who's been arrested a hundred times and is walking around out on bail.
Governor, there's your statistic right there.
Your statistic is right there, the one out on bail.
I bet if we took a good look at the Saunders, the guys, I bet they were out on this warren and that warren.
Well, one of them was on parole.
Oh, there you go.
And I bet they have what I used to call rap sheets that you could throw right across the room.
I used to do that when I was trying to change.
For me, there's this déjà vu all over again.
We went through all this.
In fact, one of the most effective things in changing the law back in the 1990s That's right.
We all did.
We all did.
rights groups. When the people stood up and said, you know, because it's so easy to think
just about the criminal. Oh, poor criminal. He had a terrible, bad, bad life. He didn't
really mean to torture the person and kill them.
We all did.
Yeah. Okay. But then you start thinking about, well, shouldn't we give a little thought to
the person who was tortured? And should we give a little thought to that person's wife
and children and mother and father? Don't they have equal rights? And the minute that
starts to happen. Politically you're going to see a big change here.
Yeah.
This is a very valuable thing you're doing, bringing the victim into it as a factor because it's easy to just say, oh, let's be nice to the criminals.
Listen, we have communities where half the community is the offender and the other half are the victims.
When you have black people committing crime against other black people, Huh?
This is a terrible thing.
Every study I've ever done, it's actually a lot less people committing the crimes than you think.
And they're the ones keep repeating it.
Repeating it, repeating it, repeating it.
I'll tell you a story.
You may remember this.
When I was mayor, I got a lot of pressure to put cameras in housing developments.
And the ACLU and all the white liberals opposed me.
The New York Times opposed me.
I was going to intrude on the privacy of poor people because I wanted to spy on poor people.
Why would I want to spy on poor people?
Do you know who got it through for me?
The goal is to help them to overcome their fear of speaking up.
of them said, you know something, it's discrimination not to give it to us. Every rich condo in
Alright?
New York City has cameras. We want cameras so they stop selling drugs in our elevators.
Because most of us are not people who can defend ourselves.
The goal is to help them to overcome their fear of speaking up. And I think that the
bigger the platform, or the more that we get to put the face forward and you know, let
people see that there's a real person, that it's a real thing.
And I'm just like you, you know, and if I could do it, if I could stand up for myself, you can stand up for yourself, you know, and that's the only way we're going to effectuate change is that we stand up.
Is that we stand up, open our mouth, and fight back.
And fight back.
If we don't fight back, it will continue.
The voice of the black community is not the congressman who's been representing the district for 20 years.
The district has gotten billions, except it never went to them, and the congressman has become a millionaire.
Exactly.
That's a real pattern, isn't it?
So the thing here is to get people out.
Okay, so we're gonna take a short break, and we'll be back with a couple of concluding questions.
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That's mypillow.com Welcome back, and we have a few concluding questions and then some remarks by our absolutely remarkable guest.
Madeline, first, how is it—and I hate to be political, but I am—how is it that—let's take Chicago.
Chicago has, for 50 years, had Democratic mayors.
I don't even know what a Republican is.
Chicago is a disaster.
Every weekend in Chicago, it's like a war zone.
There are 20 people dead, 10 people dead, 15, 20, 90 shot, and then they keep voting for the same.
Now they got a DA there, Kim, whatever her name is, who let out the smallest guy out and let out all the rioters.
Why do people continue to vote for a party that really has done nothing for them and hurt them?
I think because for New York, it's because people are uneducated about the vote.
Not the vote, but about the candidates.
They don't feel that they have an option because all the money on advertising and promotion and commercials That is true, isn't it?
Yes.
It's almost as if they have no choice.
But did it get through to many of these people that in the four years under Trump, black employment was the highest ever?
Black employment went up more than white or Hispanic.
And it was the highest wages that black people had ever gotten.
And I'm not talking about There's a whole big middle class and rich black community.
They're doing fine.
Yeah.
They don't need any help, just like I don't need any help.
They're doing great.
But this group was doing better under this Trump guy that they were calling a racist than the Democrat.
Let me tell you something.
I voted Democrat for 40 years, except for this last presidential election when I voted for Trump.
For 40 years I voted Democrat, except for the last one.
Tell me why you did it.
I did it because I started to listen.
I started to listen to what the man was actually saying.
All right.
And then I started looking around me.
Yes.
Unemployment is down.
All right.
People are doing better than what they were doing.
He's not trying to give away.
He's not trying to break the bank on all these different programs that are not doing anything to empower people or uplift people.
Then he talked about this platinum plan.
than he had, okay?
And a whole lot of black people were looking forward to that platinum play.
And I know he would have done it.
He does what he says.
I know he would have done it.
He would have put some initiatives that really did something to make a difference, to give the people a hand up and not a hand out, right?
And that's what I believe is at the heart and soul of all African American people is just give us, if we need a handout.
Yeah, any of us.
But we don't need your handout.
Give us some good paying jobs, not give us some good paying jobs, not give us, but create some opportunities for us to get some good paying jobs.
All right?
The kids that are in trouble, create some real educational opportunities to help them avoid incarceration.
Right?
Fix our schools.
Fix our housing.
Fix our schools for sure, huh?
Wow, that's such a big... Make sure that the kids know how to read and write and can pass an SAT.
Think that's better than 1619?
Learning about 1619?
Absolutely!
And CRT?
CRT!
You know, I'm also the state director of Blexit New York, right?
And we just got finished doing a Zoom the other day about school choice.
In New York.
I'm not in favor of limiting our children to, they can only go to school within this particular zone or zip code.
Yeah, so you're for the parent and the child should make the decision.
That's right.
Not like, uh, that the, the, the, what was that woman?
The woman who wrote 1619 says parents shouldn't have anything to do with education.
We should be fully 100% involved.
That is the developmental age of children.
Okay.
And we should be, Completely engaged.
Yes.
Now how do people get in touch with you and your two organizations?
Okay.
Because a lot of people can be very interested.
Yes.
Very interested, Madeline.
These are things people have been hoping for.
Right now, with the Victims Rights Reform Council, because we're just starting out,
Okay, we're in the process of... Victim's Rights Reform Council.
We're going to... Victim's Rights Reform Council.
How do we get to the Victim's Rights Reform Council?
You can find us on Twitter, at the Victim's Rights Reform Council.
You can find us on Facebook, at the Victim's Rights Reform Council.
And our website is up and coming.
UpAndComing.com?
UpAndComing.com.
That's easy to remember!
UpAndComing.com.
That's easy to remember.
You can, you know, hit me on Facebook or Twitter, my name.
So if I have a situation where I think that victims are being abused, as they are being every day, then they can come to UpAndComing.com and give you the situation and it'll be another one that you can work on to hopefully change it.
We're actually dealing with a few Same.
It's going on all over the country.
Everywhere.
Every place there's a Soros DA, there's a lot of crime.
Everywhere.
Even if it's just being afraid to go outside.
Yeah.
To walk your dog.
Now tell us about the other organization.
Uh, Blexit?
Yeah, Blexit.
Uh, Blexit, uh... Spell that.
B-L-E-X-I-T.
All right.
The founder is Candace Owens and Brandon Tatum.
I know this organization.
I just want you to... Yes.
I am the State Director of Lexit New York.
Yep.
And what we do is we empower the... You do good work.
...minority communities to raise themselves up out of poverty.
We stand on five pillars, school choice, real criminal justice reform, educational, real educational opportunities, entrepreneurship and free enterprise, and also arts and history and different things like that.
So we do different events around the city.
You know, we do a lot of pop-ups in Harlem.
We're trying to break into Harlem.
We're trying to break into South Bronx to bring the message.
Well, God bless.
You, and Candace, and all the people involved with you.
Now, how do we get you at Blexit?
Okay, Blexit New York, or BlexitFoundation.com.
BlexitFoundation.com, okay.
Or Blexit New York.
We're all over social media.
Good.
I think many people know the organization, but still, a lot of times, they just don't know how to get there.
Well, I think you can all see, we've got hope, don't we?
When we have people like Madeline who went through what she went through, I always say this, you know, about my favorite organization, Tunnel to Towers and the Sillers, who had to absorb the loss of their youngest brother, who ran into the tower and burned to death, saving other people.
They could have just gone away, depressed the rest of their lives, and no one would have held them accountable.
And this great woman could have done the same thing.
She lost her son, her beautiful son, in a way that you, brutal, brutal, She's turning into something good for other people.
And I think her son would be very proud of her.
And she's going to make his name a significant name, as it should be, because he would have led a significant life.
And it's just remarkable.
These are the people that turn around a society.
So don't lose hope.
It may not look very good right now, but there are a lot of people like Madeline.
Maybe not quite as strong as she is.
But very much motivated like her and I can't thank her enough and tell her that myself and Dr. Ryan and all the people that were there to help you in any way we can with the case or with any of these situations.
Thank you so much.
We really believe in what you're doing.
Thank you.
And it makes me a little bit happier now.
I go to bed for the last year, I've been going to bed and waking up in the morning kind of upset about my country and really worried about it.
And I see somebody like you, I feel a little better.
Thank you so much.
It's been a great, great pleasure.
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