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Dec. 15, 2021 - Rudy Giuliani
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Iran: The Regime of Terror | Guest: Alireza | Rudy Giuliani |December 15th 2021 | Ep 196
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Hello, this is Rudy Giuliani, and I'm back with another edition of Rudy's Common Sense.
And today we have the honor and the pleasure of having a really remarkable patriot.
A patriot really for freedom, for Iran, for the United States.
Someone who has put his life on the line to accomplish that.
And I can't think of anyone that knows more about what is really going on inside Iran than this man.
Unfortunately, I don't think Americans get anywhere near the full picture.
And he can assess this for us, and that's Alireza Jafarzadeh is the Director of the Washington Office of the National Council of Resistance to Iran, which is an overall network of all of us who oppose the regime of terror and would like to see a true Thank you so much, Mayor.
democratic, Republican government with human rights there for the great people of Iran.
Ali Reza, my friend, it's great to see you and it's great to see you in such good health.
Thank you so much, Mayor. It's always a great pleasure to see you also in great health.
I'm at your service today.
We have just a brief, you know, 20 minutes or so.
And as I said, I'm looking forward to doing a major piece, more or less like a mini documentary on what is really going on in Iran, what's been going on there for the last couple of years.
But right now, I think we need to be brought up to date.
The agreement we know was canceled.
The nuclear agreement was canceled by President Trump.
With that came crushing sanctions.
And the last time we spoke, which was a few months ago, we were talking about the protests in Iran, which continued into this year.
So with all that's going on around the people of Iran, what's going on inside Iran?
How could you best describe it to us?
Well, inside Iran, you have a very, very defiant population who are entirely fed up with this regime.
They want change.
They want the overthrow of the clerical system.
And they see their enemy as being the ruling clerics in Iran.
That's why they're chanting, the enemy is right here, meaning in Iran, the ruling clerics in Iran.
They lie when they say it's America.
No matter how the Iran regime spins the problems that the Iranian society is facing, the people hold the Iran regime rulers accountable.
Because most importantly, There's corruption all over the country.
Iran is a very rich country.
They have the second largest oil and gas reserves combined in the world.
Tremendous resources unmatched anywhere else in the region, yet 80% of the Iranian population live below the poverty line.
And about 30 million Iranians live below the absolute poverty line.
I mean, they're like meaning hungry.
And where does the money go?
The money goes to the supreme leader, the associations and institutions controlled by
the supreme leader, and the Iranian Revolutionary Guards who are getting richer and richer every
day.
That's why the people don't buy the excuses of the Ayatollahs, and they use every opportunity
to protest.
You mentioned the ongoing protest this year.
Today is the fourth day of the strike and the protest by the Iranian teachers in over
100 schools across the country in all 31 provinces.
So there is a protest going on by the teachers of Iran nationally?
Yes.
Yeah, all over the country and there's basically, they're saying that there's discrimination, you know, there's not enough budget allocated to that.
All of the money and resources goes to the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and there is a reason for their protests.
You know, the new budget of the Iranian regime was just introduced by Ebrahim Raisi for the new fiscal year that starts in March.
There is an increase for the budget of the Revolutionary Guards 2.4 times higher.
2.4 times higher than last year's budget.
And last year's budget was already a lot.
Now, when it comes to the teachers' budget, the increase for, you know, for education, the increase is only 14%, which is actually a decrease because the inflation rate officially is 40%.
So, you know, the education doesn't get the attention of the Ayatollahs, the repression does.
Sending money to their proxies, In Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, that gets their attention.
That's why the protest is going on.
Before that, we had the protests in the city of Isfahan, one of the largest and most ancient cities, historic city of Iran, in central part of Iran.
And there's a major river that has gone through the city, that the whole city is built around it, called Zayandehroud.
Right now, this major river has zero water.
The riverbed is now filled with people protesting.
Where did the water go?
It went to the industries controlled by the Revolutionary Guards.
That's why people feel like everything is being stolen from them.
From water to freedom.
And that's why when Raisi became president, you know, about four months ago, people didn't participate in the election, the so-called elections.
They largely boycotted the election.
And they see him as a repressor of the people of Iran.
He was handpicked by the Supreme Leader for two reasons.
One, internally, to put down the revolt and the protests by the people, and then externally, To increase support for their proxies, to increase their nuclear defiance, hoping that they can get more concessions from the outside world.
So the way to best describe, I think for people to understand it, is what's going on inside Iran would be similar to a communist, fascist dictatorship, where the leaders are all wealthy, millionaires and billionaires.
The money is being diverted to them and to their causes, repression and support of terrorism.
And the anger of the people is really now economic, right?
It's a deprivation, similar to, let's say, the Soviets in 1989 and 1990, when there were breadlines.
And does that continue even after Biden I mean, you know, you compared it to the communist world.
The big difference in Iran is that, I mean, these ayatollahs, they do all of that, plus they kill under the name of the god.
They say, you know, this is like a religious duty to kill anyone who opposes their version of religion, and they have those proxies in the Middle East and other places.
Now, you know, in terms of the change in the White House since last year in Washington, it hasn't really impacted the country because the problems are so indigenous, they're so deep-rooted in the country that
nothing can really significantly help the Ayatollahs.
People see in every province, in every local place, they see the top cleric there who is
like the Friday prayer leader, who is the representative of the supreme leader, they
see them as their enemy.
They see the local commanders of revolutionary guards as their enemies.
They see the financial institutions that are controlled by the Revolutionary Guards, who are practically on a day-to-day basis, are stealing the money from the people.
They see the whole institution that are basically printing money and currency just to, you know, to overcome their governments' problems, just making people poorer and poorer.
That's why I think, no matter what the outside world does, It's not going to solve the problems of the Iranian regime.
However, if the outside world does the right thing, meaning sending the right signals to the people of Iran, standing on their side, supporting their democracy movement, condemning the human
rights violations in Iran, and holding the ruthless rulers of Iran accountable for what they're
doing, I think that's a big help because it boosts the morale of the population.
It shows the regime that they're on the losing side, and it can help changing the momentum
against the regime and in favor of the people.
So what you're telling me, Alireza, is there's a fundamental problem that outside pressure
can exacerbate it or lessen it a little.
But basically, no matter what, you're going to have that problem because of the structure of the economy and the government.
And the economy exists to take care of the ayatollahs first, repression second, How much equity do you have in your home?
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the Iranian regime of terror, whatever they call it, whatever they want it to be, and
that people come dead last.
Is that a fair description of it?
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That's a perfectly fair assessment, Mayor.
And I think if the outside world realizes that there is actually a great opportunity, think about it, for over 40 years, the world has been trying, from their point of view, to deal with the Iranian regime's problems that is affecting those countries in the region, but also the entire West, their terrorism, their development of nuclear weapons, their missile program, you know, they're funding all these extremist groups in the region, and they tried everything and didn't work.
Mostly trying to reach out to the Ayatollahs, give them something, appeasing them, and even sanctioning, but not doing more than just simply sanctioning the regime, which is very helpful.
Sanctions are helpful, but you need to do more.
And that's why the problem has continued.
And if we want to put an end to it and realize that we don't have to live with a region or
with a world where you have the epicenter of Islamic fundamentalism there, the Ayatollah
shouldn't be a permanent feature.
There can be change.
There is prospect for change.
And if they look at the realities in the past three, four years, when the uprising started
in late 2017, early 2018, people thought, well, maybe that was like one action and maybe
It didn't.
It just kept coming back.
And the Ayatollahs, despite the repression, have not been able to suppress the population.
There is also an organized force that is gaining momentum inside the country, what they call the resistance units of the MEK.
These are young people, you know, who work underground, but work hand in hand and try to act as the engine for change.
and direct the protests. They're gaining momentum despite the arrests and everything.
So there is a possibility, a very strong possibility for change in Iran, and that's where
the outside world should invest in. Not in the so-called moderates or not in figuring out
what they need to give to the Ayatollahs.
Ali Reza, can you tell me, give me an assessment of how much of that
turmoil and movement is conveyed to the outside world? What would a well-informed,
ordinary American or Brit, what would they know of it?
Well, unfortunately, a lot of that information regarding the developments inside Iran is not
getting to the mainstream media because their main focus, like look at the headlines of all the
major papers today in the past, you know, three, four weeks, is mostly focused on Vienna.
You know, the nuclear talks, what the Iranian regime has said today, what they said, you know, the next day, and what they're willing or not willing to give.
And of course, the nuclear problem is a major issue, but it's not the entire problem.
And it's not the whole picture of Iran.
There's not much talk about What do the people of Iran want?
What do the people of Iran do on a day-to-day basis?
How much they're opposed to the Iranian regime?
And that's, I think, something we need to really fix it and get the attention of the American public.
So, what the American people should realize, and what I think the media should tell the American people, is that this regime ruling Iran Headed by Ebrahim Raisi and Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, is a very weak regime, vulnerable, unstable, and rejected by its own population.
The real future of Iran is not whether Ebrahim Raisi will be the next Supreme Leader after the death of Khamenei.
The future of Iran belongs to the people of Iran, to the organized opposition, and there is, you know, think about the prospect of a free, democratic, non-nuclear republic, a form of government that, you know, the opposition is pursuing.
What a difference it will make in the whole region and the rest of the world.
That's a dream of ours, and I do believe that we're getting closer and closer to it, and I actually believe That it's going to become a great surprise when it happens like it often does because there's been such
either wittingly or not, suppression of this movement.
The protests have been going on almost uninterrupted since, what was it, January of 2018?
Remember when the protests began and President Trump, unlike President Obama, said, I agree
with you and this is the right course?
And it almost seemed to me that that blessing, in essence, as opposed to what Obama did back
in, what was it, 2015, when he basically killed the incipient revolution, I think that has
pushed us forward quite a bit.
But I wonder if the actions of the Biden administration don't slow it down.
Like in February, there was an attack by I imagine the Revolutionary Guard, but the Iranian forces operating in Iraq on an American base, they killed a contractor, they wounded 10 people.
And within two days of that, we asked the United Nations to lift the sanctions on the Iranian diplomats who wanted to come into the United States, who Trump had excluded.
To me, as a negotiator, that's negotiating against yourself.
It creates the impression that Biden would do anything to get an agreement.
And it's almost as if we're being protected against an agreement by the Iranian regime.
Well, Mayor, you know, one thing I think the world has learned, and I hope they have learned, that no matter how much concession you give to the Iranian regime, you're actually feeding the crocodile.
You're making things worse.
This regime only understands the language of force, decisiveness, and firmness.
And the regime wants to create this perception of power, that they have all these proxy groups, that they can do whatever they want to do to you.
Whereas, you know, they want to cover their major weakness, which is inside the country.
We have to be able to see through the smoke screen and see the reality of Iran.
You know, now they're talking about the nuclear talks in Vienna.
Well, the Iranian regime is a much, much weaker party that has come supposedly to a negotiating table than it was in 2015.
But, you know, it's just the opposite, though.
It's just the opposite in the way they staged it.
They're portraying it exactly the opposite.
I mean, these are very evil people, but I have to tell you, they're very skilled negotiators.
Much more skilled than our negotiators.
I mean, basically, they won't say yes.
It reminds me of Arafat when Clinton, at the very end, was so desperate, he gave him everything he wanted.
Everything!
Gave him half of Jerusalem.
I think he would have given him Israel.
And Arafat said no, for the simple reason that Arafat never wanted to settle it.
Because that's how Arafat made his billions.
If that was settled, Arafat would just go back to being just a very rich, retired ex-terrorist.
And basically the regime is saying no to everything.
They will not go back to 2015 levels.
They will not denounce terrorism.
In other words, they already said it's off the table.
They're not going to negotiate either ceasing or reducing their support of terrorist groups around the world.
And they just announced these things.
They want all of the sanctions lifted.
And then they'll talk.
That's an absurd position.
And we actually, I don't think we're going to do it, but we actually seriously sit there and listen to it.
So what is their aim?
How do we interpret that?
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Well, I think what the U.S. should do is to make sure that the U.S. government is not
should do, especially after Raisi, I mean, you need to set the table with the Ayatollahs.
You need to, first of all, this guy Raisi, he is a proven criminal.
He was involved in the massacre of 30,000 political prisoners in 1988.
It particularly focuses on our groups.
I mean, he's a particular enemy.
And probably he's more aware of anyone.
Here's the strange thing.
He's probably more aware of how, just how dangerous Madam Rajavi and her movement is.
Much more aware of it than Westerners.
Exactly.
You know, Mayor, The only reason he rose in the ranks of the regime was his track record of brutality, particularly against the main opposition, the MEK.
You know, the fatwa written by Khomeini, then Supreme Leader Khomeini in 1988, was focused only on the MEK saying anyone who is associated in any way with this opposition movement in MEK must be killed no matter what they have or they haven't done and they went after every single political prisoner to determine whether they're still loyal to the MEK or not and if they still remain steadfast with you know vast majority of them where
They killed him, and they killed him right away after they asked the question, and not the next day, not the next week, not the next month, right away.
And this is what really led to the rise of Raisi.
He was a member, one of the four members of the death commission that were involved in that massacre.
And then he became the head of the judiciary.
He was the head of judiciary in the November 2019 uprising.
And then he became the president because the Supreme Leader knows that the real fight is between the people and the MEK who are leading them on one side and the regime on the other side.
So they wanted someone who would leave no mercy whatsoever, someone like Raisi at the helm.
But at the end of the day, honestly speaking, that hasn't helped them so far.
It's been almost four months now.
Since Raisi has taken over, those protests have actually grown since Raisi has taken over.
People are not deterred, they're not fearful, and they're not going to back down.
That's a very healthy sign.
Also, we have to emphasize to our audience that when I see those protests, you know, pictures of them or they're described to me, if I hold a sign in America, you know, we have that Let's Go Brandon sign.
Nobody's going to take me and shoot me.
Or if I held a Trump is a Nazi sign a few years ago, nobody's going to kill me.
But if I hold a sign that the Ayatollah is a maniac or Raisi is a murderer, I'm going to jail.
And who knows?
I might get tortured.
I might get killed.
I mean, they kill you not if you're a member of the MEK, but if they think you're a member.
Isn't that right?
Absolutely.
The main target, actually, Mayor, the main target are these MEK's resistance units.
These are very young people who operate in different cities.
They were very active in Isfahan and other places.
Fox News just had an interview with several members of the MEK inside Iran.
I do recommend that people go back.
It's on Fox Nation now.
You can get it as a podcast.
very powerfully about the sentiment and the desire of the people of Iran for change.
I do recommend that people go back. It's on Fox Nation now.
You can get it as a podcast.
And of course, we love him, our friend who does that.
Who did it for Fox?
Well, it was Eric Shun.
How long has Eric Shun been involved in understanding this, and one of the few American reporters that really, really understands it?
How long has that been?
About 20 years, right?
Yeah, several years, definitely.
I mean, you know, he traveled, he met with people, you know, he did, like, on-the-ground reporting, not just, you know, quoting anyone else.
Just like, you know, his own reporting, his own examination.
He talked to people one-on-one, just getting their sense, so that he can understand and then present it to the American public.
That's the kind of journalism we need to see.
I don't think I've ever told you or Farzeen or Madam Rajavi, but back in 2008, when I first spoke at your rally, which is how I got acquainted with what you're doing, he came over to me, interviewed me, And he said, you should get involved with this group.
Eventually, they're going to free Iran.
They're for real.
And I respect him so much, because he was a local reporter who covered me when I was U.S.
attorney, that it weighed very heavily with me.
But, I mean, he's one of the people you could follow and get a sense of what's going on.
So tell me what, tell me where, tell me where the regime is going.
They are closer.
To being able to develop a weaponized nuclear device.
Quite a bit closer than they were, you know, five, six years ago.
Isn't that right?
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Yes, well, obviously the Iranian regime has tried to go to defy even their own 2015 nuclear agreement as, you know, faulty as it was.
They're enriching far more uranium than they were supposed to into much higher level, over 63%.
They're only allowed 3.67%.
And they're using very advanced centrifuges.
That are, you know, hard to master the technology but they use the opportunity and they did it against the provisions of the JCPOA.
And they feel like they're not deterred and they can just like push the envelope as far as it can go.
And so far, and they're just buying time, they're dragging their feet while they're just, you know, piling more enriched uranium and continuing their activities.
And they're just, you know, dragging the talks to buy time.
That's why I think it's important for The United States to really hold them accountable, not just by wars, not just by, you know, threatening them with things, but actual steps that they can be taken.
This regime should have been held accountable for their nuclear violations long ago.
Remember between 2017 and 2018, Before the U.S.
pulled out of the JCPOA, the Iran regime was in clear violation of the terms.
Even the Europeans introduced some actions at the U.N.
trying to activate the trigger mechanism there.
And then the new evidence that came out in the past two, three years showed that back in 2015 when the agreement was signed, the Iran regime had lied.
about what they had.
They had introduced nuclear material in three different sites, none of which was declared.
This is all in clear violation of their 2015 JCPOA.
So the party that has been in violation of the JCPOA wasn't really the United States.
It was the Iranian regime starting in 2015, continuing later on, especially between 2017 and 2018, and now they're going all the way, you know, dashing towards the You know, much higher, getting closer to the bomb.
So, if you can, if you feel comfortable with it, realistically, how far are they away from having, let's say, a nuclear weapon that could strike Israel?
Well, you know, there are different elements involved in having a usable nuclear weapon.
You need to have fissile material.
which a lot of the experts are saying that they're within a month away from what they call the breakout time.
And then the second, you need to be able to weaponize it, to actually build the weapon.
That's not very clear how far advanced they are.
Of course, the new evidence shows that they were far more advanced than people thought, but we still don't know exactly where they are.
And third, the delivery system, which they pretty much have it.
so it's the weaponization part that is most crucial and that's the big question mark because that's by the way question that was put aside during the 2015 agreement.
There were a lot of questions about the weaponization part of the program that the regime never responded to those and they just put it on the shelf and say, okay, let's forget about that.
Let's just continue with the rest of the things.
Well, that was the main issue that is now coming back to haunt everyone.
That's why I think it's so important to emphasize not just on the nuclear side, but also the other We're under pressure from all angles, from human rights angle, from, you know, terrorism, their missile program, their drone, the UAV program.
You know, we're revealing some information about the advancement of unmanned aerial vehicles for combat that's run by the Revolutionary Guards.
These are the things we need to do.
And if Biden administration wants to be successful, they should make human rights and democracy as a central element of their policy regarding Iran.
Going after the human rights violators, because that's how they can reach out to the population.
That's how they can say Raisi is actually a murderer, not a negotiator.
Now, you put the Biden administration aside for a moment.
We'll go back to it in conclusion.
There is, thanks to you and your wonderful organization that you built, there is a bipartisan support For resisting a one-sided agreement and bipartisan support for trying to create an alternative.
And there are very few things in Washington, as you know, because you're one of the experts on Washington, I can't think of too many things where there's bipartisan support.
Now, you can put together rather large groups of Republican congressmen and Democratic congressmen who agree that Raisi shouldn't be the president, prime minister, that the regime is a regime of terror, that the agreement has to be far different to really protect us.
And I think that does act as a control on the Biden administration when senators like Menendez You know, says, you know, I won't stand for that.
Well, certainly, Mayor, that's a good way to conclude it.
You know, talking about bipartisanship, especially in Washington, you know how hard it is.
And we have managed to do it.
You know, in the House, there was a resolution, H.R.
118, which has 251 co-sponsors, Republicans and Democrats, unprecedented.
And that consensus was made in the first 100 days of this Congress.
And this resolution basically talks about the alternative to the Ayatollahs.
It says that Iran will not buy the dictatorship of the Shah, nor will it accept the theocracy of the Mullahs.
Iran is ripe for change.
And they talk about the 10-point plan of Mrs. Rajavi that is based on free elections, separation of church and state.
free market economy, freedom of religion, and gender equality, peace in the Middle East,
and a non-nuclear Iran.
And the same situation exists in the Senate.
And that's, I think, a model that anyone, whether in the administration here or in Europe,
should follow, bipartisanship.
Well, you've done a great deal to educate our members of Congress on this, on even those
who at first were not exactly agreeable on this issue.
I mean, you've been able to change their minds.
I think they've been remarkably helpful because this is my personal view now that goes back to Obama.
I believe that Obama The ultimate goal is the Islamic Republic of Iran being a major player in the Middle East, has a control on Saudi Arabia and Israel.
And I think that Biden is surrounded by all the same people that did the dastardly agreement in 2015, who sent cash.
I mean, what was that about?
Sending cash?
To a terrorist regime can only mean that that money is going to go to terrorists.
So I think Biden's dream is a Middle East where the Islamic Republic is a major player.
And I think Biden, given the fact that he caved in on the negotiations where they even started, seems to me headed in that direction.
And the only control against him Our public opinion and the members of his own party who see what a disaster that is.
I would like us to make a commitment, a New Year's resolution, that early next year you're going to help me show the American people in black and white and living color what's going on, and then, number two, prove to them something that I think we can prove now.
That there is an alternative ready, willing, and able, unlike anything I've ever seen before in a revolution, to step in, stabilize the government for a short period of time, and then absolutely committed to having an election and even getting voted out of office.
Some of them will just do it temporarily so that there's no problem, but the degree of patriotism involved in this I don't want to exaggerate it, but it reminds me of 1776, Ali Reza, in the United States.
I know your people, and you have some great patriots.
Very, very good people.
And this would be a seamless—I know this sounds strange, but we're going to prove it early next year—this would be a seamless transition.
I think two days later, Iran would be functioning and functioning a lot better.
Am I exaggerating, Ali Reza?
I fully agree with you.
Thank you so much, Mayor.
That's the best way for having a new resolution based on those principles.
Thank you so much for having me.
All your holidays, you're going to prepare that for me.
And then we're going to show it to the American people.
I'm very encouraged about what's going on there because I really thought that what was happening would suppress And I thought this guy Raisi, who's a master assassin, would have the opposite impact.
But it shows me there's a real revolutionary spirit if he's making them stronger.
But thank you, my very good friend, Ali Reza, and someone who I greatly admire.
Thank you so much.
Really, really appreciate the opportunity.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
God bless you on your efforts for freedom.
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