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Oct. 13, 2021 - Rudy Giuliani
38:50
How to Reduce Urban Violence | Guest Bernie Kerik | October 13th, 2021 | Ep. 178
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This is Rudy Giuliani, and welcome to another episode of Rudy's Common Sense.
Today we're going to deal with the problem of crime, both on the streets and in the correction facilities, because there may very well be a common link between why they're both way out of control.
And there's no better person to talk to about this than Bernard Kerrick, who worked in the city's correction department for about six, seven, six years, seven years, and then became the corrections commissioner.
And according to the enemy, the New York Times, 60 Minutes, you name it, he did miracles in corrections department with his staff.
I'll let him describe it, but let's say about a 90% reduction in violence.
And he had about four or five times the number of people that these people are dealing with, and it's totally out of control.
I think he can explain to us why that happened, what can be done.
And also, he was the city police commissioner not only during September 11, but during his time after crime had already been brought down as much as anybody thought it could be brought down, with Commissioners Bratton and Saver, Commissioner Carrick brought it down even more.
So, this man knows how to do both.
He's a worldwide expert on it.
Why the city of New York doesn't go to him and ask him simply, how do we reduce corrections and violence, particularly, I don't know.
But, Bernie, how are you?
I'm good, Mr. Mayor.
How are you?
Good, good.
So, Bernie, let's talk about crime, first of all, in the street.
I showed a I showed a video, I'm going to show a video now, of this grandmother in the Bronx just a few days ago, walking her grandchild, gosh almighty, I think a three-year-old, this homeless man, comes up, tries to kidnap her.
It would have happened, but for the intervention of a few people.
It happened in an instant.
Heart-stopping video showing a stranger, wrapped in a blanket, suddenly snatch a three-year-old girl off the Bronx street as she walked with her grandmother and two other children.
The grandmother was screaming, he's taking my little girl, the little girl.
The girl's grandmother and Good Samaritans, like Furman Bracero, running after the man outside a gas station on East Tremont and Baisley Avenues.
Once people started coming and started screaming at him, he let the little girl go.
Police say the homeless man is 27-year-old Santiago Salcedo.
The NYPD caught up with Salcedo and charged him with attempted kidnapping a few hours after the broad daylight incident yesterday afternoon.
Salcedo was found sleeping in the doorway of a nearby restaurant.
He then allegedly told detectives the voices in his head made him take the girl who was not hurt but likely traumatized from the ordeal.
Just be safe.
You know, have your kid near, close to you as much as you can.
That guy just scooped up that little girl like nothing.
Now I play that as a symbol of what goes on multiple times during the day in our city.
We could show old people being knocked in the head, thrown on subway tracks, knocked down on subway platforms.
We could go to stats.
Murder is up 9% this year, over a record year last year, record increase last year.
Shootings out of control.
Police completely demoralized.
I don't think anybody has to prove that crime is out of control right now in this city.
Why is that?
Why did it happen all of a sudden?
And then what do we do about it?
I mean, de Blasio has been mayor for quite some time.
Why does this happen in 2020, 2021?
Mayor, I think it's three things, three primary things.
First and foremost, you had a governor, Governor Cuomo, that signed into law a bail reform law that basically victimized the thugs, let people out of prison.
Think of this number because this is probably most important with regard to violent crime and murder.
83% of the people charged with gun crimes today are immediately released based on the new bail reform law.
Police Commissioner Shea said it was ridiculous.
It should have never happened.
Did you say 83%, Bernie?
83%.
Of people who were arrested for?
For gun charges.
Somebody has a gun.
Somebody used a gun in a crime.
83% of them are getting released back into the public immediately.
They can't be held.
Judges, based on the bail reform law, they can't look at somebody's priors and hold them to account for them In their bail proceeding.
So a lot of people are being released immediately back into the streets and they go back and do the same thing all over again.
The second problem we have are prosecutors that's not prosecuting.
You have prosecutors that are targeting police, not targeting the bad guys.
And when the bad guys get locked up, they're letting them go.
So the prosecutor issue is a second issue.
And the third issue, you have a mayor.
That's an admitted Marxist.
This is a guy that was supporting the Sandinistas back in 1987.
This guy is, you know, he's a supporter of Black Lives Matter, who was calling for the assassination of New York City cops.
He has targeted police far more than he's targeted bad guys.
And when the city was in turmoil, when they had riots and people were trying to burn down the city, This is the same mayor that told the police department, take a light touch on crime.
Well, when you have those three things, you're going to start to see major increases in violent crime, murder, shootings, and just a diminishment of the quality of life.
Everything that we attacked under your administration, everything that worked, they stopped doing.
So when people ask why, there's the answer.
Well, you know, the new governor seems to have doubled down on Cuomo's, I would consider it, of all the things he did, well, who knows?
It's certainly one of the most horrendous things that he did, the no-bail law, and now it's being copied in other left-wing jurisdictions.
I mean, they want to see if they can have as large an increase in murder as we have, I guess.
But this new governor comes in, comes from Buffalo, New York, claims to be a moderate, and then she expands the bail law She actually expands it.
She basically says that we're no longer going to violate people who don't show up when they're on parole.
That's wacky, Bernie!
It's wacky!
That's a really good example of how insane these people are.
This is a matter of accountability.
You're ordered to show up for your probation hearing or for court.
You don't do it, well now, nothing's going to happen to you.
So basically, this emboldens the bad guys.
They know, they can do as they please, nobody's going to do a damn thing to them.
What do they do?
They go back out in the street and they commit more crime.
That's what they're encouraging.
That's what they're emboldening when they sign it to affect these laws.
You know, we had the problem.
You and me, back when you were a police officer and then in corrections.
We had the problem of these weak judges, these liberal judges.
Ed Koch used to do a job on them.
I don't know if you remember, but he would, every time they'd do something like let a criminal go free, no bail, he'd hold a press conference.
He'd explain how left-wing they are.
He'd explain some of their connections.
Maybe they were corrupt or whatever.
Remember, let them loose Bruce.
Right.
Exactly.
And now it's not the judges.
Judges have actually attempted to hold people, and they've been reversed because, I mean, frankly, it's the law.
Right.
And that is the problem.
They're signing these things into law so they take away the judge's discretion.
I'd say 90% of the time, 95% of the time, the judge is trying to do the right thing.
You know, 5% of the judges, they're completely off the mark.
They're liberal or whatever the case may be.
But 95% of the time, the judges are trying to do the right thing.
But when the law says you can't do it, the judge can't violate the law, so he does what he's supposed to.
Time to take a short break.
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Let's continue with the interview with Bernard Kerrick.
So just about the only daily newspaper we have in town or maybe in America, the New York Post, on Sunday, isolated nine people just released from Rikers Island based on the HOKL expansion of the bail law.
One of them is a member of a gang called Team Nolakken.
He has 43 prior arrests.
Including 23 felonies.
And he was out for two weeks, and he's already been caught with illegal possession of a gun, resisting arrest.
Then we've got nine others who have bribed public officials, beaten people up.
She calls it the Less is More Act.
None of these people would not have been out even under Cuomo's bail law.
That's exactly right.
It's just getting worse.
You know, this is one of the problems we have in the political world today.
You know, nobody's paying attention to these lower-level political races.
What happens is these left-wing radicals get in at a lower level.
They move up the chain.
And this woman, who was completely—I have no idea where she came from.
I never heard of her before.
I didn't know who she was.
She's the governor of the state of New York now, instituting these radical left-wing laws that basically there's no other purpose than to diminish and destroy communities.
That's what she's doing.
And people have to start to realize that because if they don't, You know, the city's basically the country is going to implode if you keep doing this.
Well, Bernie, you know, I have the crime statistics in front of me like we used to look at every Thursday, and you used to look at in great detail every day, and then you'd bring them to me on Thursday and we would review them.
And I do notice that every year since 17, murder has been creeping up under de Blasio.
But then all of a sudden, from 19 to 20, it went up 50%.
And shootings went up 100%.
That's unheard of.
I went back over the crime statistics in New York.
Nothing even close to that under our worst mayor.
50% increase in murder.
It's up 9% this year.
And doesn't that also have a lot to do with doing away with the very special unit in the police department, the anti-crime unit?
Yeah, I think what your audience has to realize is that the New York City Police Department had 600 cops assigned to anti-crime, what they call anti-crime, plainclothes.
And these are New York City cops that wear plainclothes.
They ride around, like I was in anti-crime in Midtown South, Times Square.
I rode around in a yellow taxi, right?
A cab, just like every other cab.
Three people in a car, a driver, two people in the back seat.
And basically your whole function in life is to respond to hot jobs.
In other words, man with a gun, robbery in progress, shots fired, a shooting in progress, a robbery in progress.
That's your job because you can get into the crowd.
You can get into an area without being detected.
And de Blasio eliminated.
The entire anti-crime unit, 600 cops, whose sole function it was to go out and look for guns.
So when you do that, and then you basically send a message to the commanders and the NYPD, you know, this is not a priority.
Well, then you're going to see spikes in shootings and violent crime.
When you see spikes in shootings, you're going to see a spike in murders.
People get shot, die.
And the bottom line is if you leave the guns out there, So the expertise of the anti-crime unit, they did a lot of things, but their real expertise was getting guns out of the streets of the city.
Taking the guns away from the bad guys, which when you have a guy that's a hysterical gun control nut like de Blasio, Why would he take away, taking guns away from the, he wants to control guns in the hands of the good guys, but he doesn't want to take guns away from the bad guys?
It's the left-wing mindset, right?
It's the Marxist mindset, right?
Take away the power from the good people, and in doing so, they basically, they don't give a damn about the bottom rung, right?
They don't care about these, the thugs, they don't, none of that, they don't care about none of that.
That's not what they're there for.
In their mind, they want to take the power away from society.
They want to be the power.
And that's what these guys do.
Not just de Blasio, Cuomo, every one of these cities, these major cities, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Baltimore, Portland, Seattle, every one of these cities are run by Democrats, and every one of these cities are imploding with violent crime, Shootings, murders, and less economic development, less real estate values.
They are destroying these cities.
And I have to believe it's intentional because the way you reduce crime and fix these cities We created the model.
All they have to do is follow it.
This would be a good opportunity to take a short break.
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Thank you for returning.
Well, Bernie, I think I want to read you something from an interview with a guy who's some kind of a professor at John Jay.
His name is Butts.
Let me see if I can get his first name.
But I just want to illustrate Jeffrey Butts.
His experience before John Jay, who was in Chicago, might explain why you're going to hear what you're going to hear.
And he began his career as a drug and alcohol counselor.
He's never, I think, arrested anybody in his life or reduced crime in his life.
He's one of the experts on crime.
And here's the question.
He's asked by the reporter, what's your sense of what's going on?
Why have shootings gone up?
This is about in March or April of this year.
He says, my theory, and I'm not the only one who thinks this, is that what we're seeing is a reflection of predominantly young men walking around with handguns and deciding to use them, where a year ago they may have thought twice or they may have not been walking around with a handgun because they were actually in school or had a job.
Petty interpersonal grievances and insults are turning into bullets being fired because of the disruption to the social structure caused by the pandemic.
He seems to miss stop, question, and frisk, as if it had no impact at all.
He then goes on to say, I won't bore you with the whole thing, that the police have nothing to do with the reduction of crime.
There's not going to be any consequence whether you have more police or not.
As long as you have a lot of people on the street, whether they're police or they wear bright orange.
That people will feel safer, but the police have no real impact.
Anyone who thinks that the way to improve public safety is to invest in law enforcement is just pushing us further down the path toward a police state.
The police can't prove that they have the effect on public safety that they claim.
Isn't it people like this and their thinking for 30 to 40 years that's created this massive amount of crime and all these murders in the black community?
Listen, this guy forgets a couple of things.
First of all, the New York Times, CBS 60 Minutes, you name it.
I don't care who you go to.
From 1994 to 2002, Rudy Giuliani had the most substantial reduction in crime in U.S.
history, the most substantial reduction in murder, 65% reduction in violent crime and 70% reduction in murder.
And in the black communities, In the communities of color where the violence was the highest, we had almost an 80% drop in murder.
That's thousands of Black lives saved.
We didn't do that through social programs.
I can promise him.
But Mayor, there's something more important behind this.
That's a guy that's teaching at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, the college of criminal justice that used to specialize in putting out phenomenal cops in New York City.
John Jay College of Criminal Justice has turned into a radical left-wing institution that's pushing out this garbage.
Think of this.
Susan Rosenberg, who was involved in the Weather Underground, who was involved in the Brinks job, a NYAC where two guards and a cop was killed.
She teaches.
She used to teach at John Jay.
She's an architect of Black Lives Matter also.
She's an advisor.
She's actually one of their treasurers.
Yeah.
Right.
So these are the kind of people that John Jay has today teaching.
They have turned into this radical left-wing arm that promotes this insanity, this Marxist insanity.
And, you know, when you have that, what are you going to put out for students?
I hear from cops every day that graduated from John Jay go back there for a class and come out appalled at what they're teaching.
So, before we get to corrections, what would you advise the new mayor, whether it's Adams or Sliwa, you know, Adams is leading now and everyone thinks he's going to win, but as a Republican, I don't want to count The Republican candidate, whoever is the mayor, what would you advise them are the two or three most important things to do right away to turn this around?
I mean, it's going to take a while to do it completely, but just turn it around.
First and foremost, they got to go to the governor and get the governor to get rid of this bail reform stuff because it's killing the state.
Secondly, bring up the staffing in the NYPD and let the cops go do their jobs.
Here's the thing with Eric Adams.
I know Eric Adams.
He worked for me.
He was a lieutenant and worked for me.
You dealt with him quite a bit, I remember.
He was the president of 100 Blacks in law enforcement.
With me, he was a great guy.
Nice guy.
He was a good guy.
We had a good relationship.
He knows.
He knows exactly how to do this.
How to reduce crime.
How to reduce violent crime.
How to reduce the shootings.
He knows because he had to work under us.
He worked under us.
He knows exactly what has to be done.
Well, then he knows there's a legitimate, constitutionally authorized, approved Stop Question and Frisk program that could be utilized right now.
And you could say to the Justice Department it was approved by Janet Reno and Deputy Attorney General Holder.
That's right.
They could put it in place right now.
Today.
Yeah.
Listen, the program, the model, We created the model.
All he has to do is go back in history, look at it, and reproduce it.
That's all he has to do.
Sliwa?
Listen, if I was Sliwa, and I got elected mayor, I'd call up Joe Esposito tomorrow morning, and I'd make him the police commissioner, and I would tell him, go do your job.
Go do what has to be done.
So he would, I assume, he'd reconstitute the anti-crime unit, he'd utilize CompStat for real, really make decisions based on where crime is taking place, he would prevail on the governor to get rid of the no-bail law, and he'd put in a constitutional, scaled-down, stop-question-and-frisk, and therefore take guns out of the city.
That's all they have to do.
I mean, this isn't brain surgery.
You know, it's easy for you and I to sit here and talk about it because we actually did it.
You know, when I hear people talk all over the country about violent crime and it's impossible and, you know, it's all about social economics and all this stuff, it's all nonsense.
Because here's the bottom line and here's what all these mayors and governors don't realize.
All these socioeconomic issues that you claim that are the real issue, you know, you need better jobs, you need more jobs, you need better schools.
You're never going to have them.
You're not going to have those.
It's not going to happen.
As long as you have violent crime and murder rolling the streets, nobody wants to live, visit, work, or go to school in a place where they're not safe.
For every percentage point we reduced violent crime and murder, We saw increases in economic development, real estate values, tourism.
We saw decreases in the welfare rolls.
These people have to get that.
If they don't get it, they're never going to fix their cities.
Bernie, as good as your record was as police commissioner, you at least equaled it, if not surpassed it, as corrections commissioner.
I'm going to put up on a chart statistics that nobody would believe these unless they were affirmed by the New York Times, And they were.
CBS TV.
I mean, they were all recognized by the left wing.
The New York Times had a headline, an iron hand at Rikers Island drastically reduces violence.
That was in November of 1999.
93% reduction in inmate violence, 72% reduction in serious use of force.
I mean, you go on and on.
I have them all up there, including management improvements like overtime spending, staff sick abuse, assaults on staff.
Now we're looking at, I mean, the last couple of articles that I've read about Rikers Island, first of all, it's down to how many people now?
6,000 or something?
We've got 5,000 or 6,000 inmates.
And how many, what was your average?
My daily population was about 22,000.
That was about three to four times.
Right.
Three to four times, you had this massive reduction, and now the latest articles say that the inmates are in charge of the asylum.
They take trucks, they drive them around, they go from building to building, they beat the hell out of people.
What are they at, 12 homicides there this year, something like that?
The bottom line, Rikers is a cesspool because Bill de Blasio allowed it to happen.
He demoralized and diminished the New York City Department of Correction.
Right now, he's hiring, I think it's either gone into effect or it's going to go into effect, where he's hiring private security staff to do the perimeter security for Rikers.
For what?
For what?
We have staff that does that.
If you allow them to do their job, they can do that.
He's got 5,000 to 6,000 inmates in the entire system.
I could have done that with my eyes closed.
That was part-time for me.
We'll be right back.
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It's time to cancel, cancel culture.
We'll continue with the interview of Bernard Carrick.
This is from the New York Times, the ones that said that you had miracle reductions.
When a detainee decided to hijack a bus inside the Rikers Island jail complex, little was in place to stop him.
It's an inability to deliver even the basic services.
Something we haven't seen in a long time, if not ever.
Oh, there are 4,800 inmates, Byrne.
4,800 inmates.
I don't know.
I mean, I don't think... I think you could have done both jobs if you had only 4,800 inmates.
And we gave that to them on a silver platter.
The programs, the security, the efficiencies, the management program, The accountability program, all done, here you go.
And as soon as we were out, you know, I hate to do this, but Mike Bloomberg didn't do well at all in the Department of Correction.
In the NYPD, he gave the PD to Kelly, told him, go do your job.
He stayed away from him.
Ray Kelly did his job and crime continued to drop.
Mike Bloomberg in correction brought in two or three different commissioners.
They were all left-wing.
Yeah.
I mean, there are contemporary criticisms of it in the New York Times, and the New York Times rarely criticized Bloomberg, but they did at various points say he was really, really failing and turning the corrections department back to what it used to be.
So what you're saying is in that particular situation, de Blasio inherited an already failing operation or an operation that was beginning to fail.
de Blasio inherited something that was not good, but he just made it 10 times worse.
What Bloomberg was doing was not good, but what de Blasio did was absurd.
I mean, completely absurd.
And right now to the point that you have, these guys have, they have as much, they have more violence that I had when I had 133,000 inmate admissions a year.
That's completely insane.
That's insane.
It doesn't have to happen.
All they need is to go back and re-institute the programs that we created.
Put in the managers that you can hold accountable and will hold their people accountable.
And most importantly, Mayor, hold the inmates accountable.
I want to know how many of these inmates that are involved in violence on Rikers are being charged, recharged with crimes.
What happened to the guy that took that bus?
Was he charged with a crime?
I bet you not.
Maybe he wasn't let out on bail.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
I mean, he's constantly letting people out.
I don't know how many people he let out during the pandemic, which made no sense.
You have an empty Rikers Island where you could have kept them in isolation and not sent them out into the street as COVID spreaders.
I mean, and the press didn't even point that out.
Here we're all worried about people spreading COVID.
We take people out of Rikers Island, which has to be a hotbed of COVID, and we send them around the neighborhoods.
And I don't think they're likely to wear masks, except if they're holding up a bank.
No, right.
I want to touch on this one thing, because it's important for people to understand.
Bill de Blasio's mindset of fixing the corrections system Is taking everybody out outside of Rikers, closing Rikers.
That's his mindset.
But here's the, here's the reality.
This is, this is real.
If you have corrupt staff, mismanaged staff, you know, inmates that are not accountable and they're at Rikers, you can put them in the Taj Mahal.
You could put them in the Trump Tower.
I don't care where you put them.
You're still going to have those problems.
The problem isn't Rikers Island.
The problem is management, accountability, safety and security.
You don't have to move them.
You don't have to move them.
You need different managers.
You need different executives.
You need overall accountability.
That's what you need.
I don't give a damn where you put the inmates.
I don't care where you put them.
The best place to keep them is at Rikers.
Because Rikers is secure.
I think it's absolutely right.
And actually, isn't that the answer to both?
A different application of it.
The answer to both crime in society and crime in prisons is a system of strict accountability Keeping track of who's doing their job, calling to account when they're not, and holding people accountable when they commit crimes, quickly.
100%.
It's the same thing.
And to some extent, I think the same thing underlies the tremendous outbreak of violence.
It's being enabled.
Right.
De Blasio's allowing it.
Basically, he's inviting it.
Mayor, it's not only being enabled, it's being emboldened.
Yes.
Enabling is one thing, when you allow them.
But when you're encouraging them, based on your failures, then it's only going to get worse.
It's going to get 10 times worse.
So we, you know, confined ourselves to New York because I think you can give advice most authoritatively about New York.
But this problem is affecting now many, it's like an epidemic in the United States.
Similar, if not worse, in Chicago, Philadelphia, St.
Louis, Atlanta, Baltimore.
I don't want to miss any.
I mean, they all have in common this same so-called progressive ideology, which is to favor criminals, and DAs, who I call Soros DAs.
Many of them elected on the millions of dollars that Soros contributed.
None of them prosecutors by background.
All of them criminal poverty lawyers who basically let criminals go free.
Right.
In mass numbers.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And you're seeing it in every one of those cities, every one of the cities you just talked about.
And ironically, every one of those cities are run by Democrats.
So this is the democratic model.
This is a major political issue, maybe our most important if we want to be safe.
That's right.
Well, Bernie, I know you're doing great work advising people.
It's amazing that in all this time you haven't been asked for your advice.
Don't feel bad, I haven't been asked for mine.
You reduced violence in Rikers Island, which is now a disaster more than anyone in history, and no one even wants to know how you did it.
Crime in New York City, more than any mayor in history, with your help and with Bratton's help and with Saban's help and the great department, but nobody asked me.
Mayor, listen.
They don't want to do it.
They don't want to reduce crime.
They don't want to reduce crime.
I just got to, I got to close with this.
You know, this has been going on for eight years under de Blasio.
You know, they paid McKinsey and company $27 million, $27 million to do an assessment on what the problems were at Rikers Island.
And ever since they did that assessment, it diminished and got substantially worse.
Nobody that did that assessment, nobody contacted me, my chief of department, my chief of operations, my chief of staff, nobody.
The only people to ever fix Rikers in the history of the agency is me.
They didn't talk to me.
So, you know, was there real intent on what they want to do?
No.
It's nonsense.
Well, that was about it.
At least he didn't spend as much as he spent on his wife trying to fix mental health.
And now mental health is totally out of control and people are running around the streets, bopping people in the head, trying to steal babies with no accountability at all.
His wife, I think, Got $800 million to do that?
Nobody can figure out how she spent it.
$800 million, yeah.
Yeah, and now she's getting more.
Well, this is going to have to change, Bernie.
It's going to have to change, and I hope 2022 is the time for that.
I know you're working very hard for that.
And thank you, Bernie.
Thank you for your contributions in the past, and most importantly, thank you for getting this word out, because a lot of what we say is censored by the mainstream media.
We have to get it out this way.
Thank you.
God bless you.
Thank you.
Thanks, man.
Well, as usual, that was about as concise and about an effective program to both reduce crime in the city of New York, other cities, and in the corrections department.
Let's hope that one of these progressive idiots, you know, takes advantage of it.
Maybe they can save some lives.
Because here, that's what we're talking about.
We're talking about lives.
This isn't a game.
This isn't a statistical game.
Statistics are important because they encourage success.
Statistics are important because they show you where you're making mistakes and can change it.
Outlets like mine and similar ones, that you find out what's really going on in this country.
So, we'll be back in a few days with another episode to give you the information that you're being deprived of by a corrupt media.
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