All Episodes
Previous Next
May 11, 2021 - Rudy Giuliani
31:45
MURDERED On A LIVESTREAM By Looters | Rudy Giuliani and Ann Dorn | Ep. 69
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
It's our purpose to bring to bear the principle of common sense and rational discussion to the issues of our day.
America was created at a time of great turmoil, tremendous disagreements, anger, hatred.
There was a book written in 1776 that guided much of the discipline of thinking that brought us to the discovery of our freedoms, of our God-given freedoms.
With Thomas Paine's Common Sense, written in 1776, one of the first American bestsellers in which Thomas Paine explained by rational principles the reason why these small colonies felt the necessity to separate from the powerful Kingdom of England and the King of England.
He explained their inherent desire for liberty, freedom, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and he explained it in ways that were understandable to the people, to all of the people.
A great deal of the reason for America's constant ability to self-improve is because we are able to reason.
We're able to talk to each other.
We're able to listen to each other.
And we're able to analyze.
We are able to apply our God-given common sense.
So let's do it.
This is Rudy Giuliani with Rudy Giuliani's Common Sense.
Bye.
Today we have the great honor of speaking with Sergeant Ann Dorn.
Ann Dorn.
Ann is the widow of Captain David Dorn.
who was assassinated here in St.
Louis just a few weeks ago.
And it was a national tragedy.
It was one of the things that highlighted the violence and the increasing violence that was taking place as the Floyd protests moved from protests of a very, very justifiable kind about a killing that had no justice to it at all And then all of a sudden morphed into these continual riots and then the murder of innocent people like Captain Dorn and then others.
So it shocked the nation and we'd like to talk to Anne because she herself is a police officer and has a lot of insight into how this all happened.
Anne, thank you very much for joining us.
Thank you, Rudy.
Now first let me say When I heard about this, probably right about the time that it happened, because I've been covering it from day one, it just broke my heart.
Because I come from a family of police officers, I ran the largest police department in the country, and I lost 26 police officers before September 11.
And of course, everyone knows what happened on September 11.
And I can't hear of a police shooting without Either crying or getting very close to crying.
And the thing that struck me about your husband was not just the horrible thing.
I knew the minute I heard of it that we had gone into a new level of riot.
Yes.
That these things were building on each other.
They had taken over the precinct in Minneapolis.
Minneapolis had already turned to violence.
I think you had just turned to violence.
New York was just about turning to violence.
And you could see it now having been hijacked.
Yes.
David grew up in the city of St.
protests, he's going to be trying to destroy cities.
Yes.
So, tell me how, first tell me a little about David's background and then yours.
David grew up in the city of St. Louis.
His family owned a trucking company for years in North St.
Louis.
Louis.
He aspired to be a policeman.
He didn't want to be a truck driver, and so he tried his hardest to be a policeman.
Funny thing is, I was telling you, he didn't make weight the first time.
He was such a scrawny, skinny little kid, he didn't make weight.
He ate a big pot of beans that morning before he went and weighed in, just to hit the weight.
Just to make his weight.
And did he?
And he did.
He made it by one pound.
So he had tremendous desire to be a police officer.
It wasn't just a job.
No, his father had been a reserve officer with the city of St.
Louis.
It means he didn't get paid.
But David just wanted to be a policeman and he wanted to be a policeman so bad that he did everything he could.
If he had to put weights in his shoes, he'd have done that too.
But on top of that, so he got in and he made it through the academy.
It wasn't easy.
Our academy's never been easy.
Was it a period of time, what year was it by the way?
1969.
So was it a period of time in which I would imagine there'd be some difficulties for an African-American in the police department, although there's a large African-American population in the city, the police department at that time was not heavily African-American.
No, it wasn't.
They had just started really hiring a lot of African Americans at the time.
Sure, that would be the beginning of the period of trying to recruit.
Yes.
But he was determined.
So he was more or less a trailblazer for African American police officers.
Yes.
And how was his integration in the police department over the many years he was there?
David was well-liked.
Everybody loved him.
He never picked sides with anybody.
He didn't matter if you're white, black, Asian, Hispanic.
If you needed help, he helped you.
He was friends with everybody.
So he was just well-loved, but he was also a hard worker.
He did his job, and he did it to the letter of the law.
He wasn't... I don't want to say he wasn't a rogue officer.
He did get into some stuff, but...
Yeah, he always came out smelling like roses every time he did something.
He was a tough cop, you told me.
Very tough cop, yes.
But in the right sense.
In the right sense, yes.
One, you know, an example, one morning he was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be.
Back then we didn't have miniature radios, so he's inside someplace he's not supposed to be.
He hears all these sirens and He's trying to figure out what's going on so he goes out and listens to his radio and they're broadcasting the description and there's been a shooting and all this stuff and so he jumps in his police car and he takes off trying to get back to his area where he's supposed to be because he's not in his area and a guy runs out in front of him and he hits him and he's like oh I just hit a guy so he's scared to death but oh you know I'm gonna be in so much trouble I just hit a guy so he gets out the car and looks at the guy and just then they're broadcasting the description of the guy for murdering the shop owner
He was the guy that he hit.
So he got a medal!
He got a medal!
He was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing and he got a medal for catching the guy that killed the shop owner.
I've had experiences like that.
That signifies Dave's entire career.
Every time he was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing, he got a medal.
But he was a very good police officer and very well liked.
Oh, everybody liked him.
That I know from talking to people even here the last couple of days.
In his area, he was like almost legendary.
He was, yeah.
And then he became, as a captain, he became our night chief.
So he worked usually 6 p.m.
to 2 a.m., so he was out on every call.
And how do you become a, how do you become a, you're a sergeant.
I'm a sergeant.
So how do you become a sergeant?
I have to take a test, and I have to prove my worth.
That's the point I want to make.
And I have to interview.
You have to take a competitive exam.
Oh yes.
And then you have to take a competitive exam for lieutenant.
Yes.
And for captain.
And for captain, yes.
And they're all difficult and they get more difficult.
They get more difficult as you go, yes.
A lot of people don't know this.
You don't just get selected by the commission because you're his pal.
No.
In fact, you can't do that in any of these good police departments.
Oh no.
So when you see the rank of sergeant, lieutenant, captain, you know somebody earned it.
They've earned it, yes.
The tests are grueling.
So then how long was he in the St.
Louis Police Department?
38 total years.
38 years and he could have retired at 20 or 30.
20 is the earliest, and 35 is usually when most people go.
And he got an exemption?
No, he just stayed three extra years.
He hadn't turned 65 yet.
So then he became... You wanted him to retire, you told me.
I wanted him to retire.
Like what most good wives do.
And he probably felt he was going to die if he retired.
So he went and took over a smaller police department as the head of the police department.
Yeah, he became the chief of police of Moline Acres, which is a little municipality just north of the city.
They needed a chief of police.
They hired him.
They didn't hire him on.
He was acting as a consultant to help hire a new chief of police.
And everything, he said, well, you need this.
They're like, okay, well, what do you need?
Captain Doran, what would you need if you were there?
And he'd say, well, I would want this.
And they were like, done.
Well, what else would you need then?
He'd say, well, I need this.
And they're like, done.
And within a week, he comes home with a badge and a gun.
And he was the chief of police.
And I go, what'd you do?
He goes, I guess I'm the chief of police.
Then he did that.
That wasn't the plan.
And how long was he retired when the night of June 1st came?
About six, seven years.
And had he been doing sporadic security work here and there or regular security work?
Well, no, he was pretty much retired.
The security work he did do was just for a friend.
And in this particular case, the Floyd murder occurred on the 25th of May.
And it led to some, let's say, at the start, peaceful protests in St.
Louis.
Were you or David concerned about those protests at the beginning, from the point of view of becoming violent?
We're always worried about him becoming violent, but no, there was no real concern at the time because it was contained.
We had really close intel with him.
You know, a lot of times the protesters will talk to us.
This is what we're going to do.
This is how we're going to do it.
In the past, we've always had good working relationships with our protesters.
Within a few days then, it started to turn violent.
Yes.
And that was almost the night before David was shot, right?
It was, yes.
And were both you and David aware of that?
That the nature of it had turned?
Yeah, the day, June 1st, was our first day they put us on 12-hour shifts.
I had just finished working a 12-hour shift.
I had gotten home.
And the day had started with peaceful protests.
And as it was ending, they started moving to a different park.
And they were reorganizing.
And the peaceful people were leaving.
And they were kind of reading the signs that it might not be as peaceful once it got dark.
Did new people come in to try to direct it that way, or was it the same people just getting more frustrated?
It was some of the same people, but a lot of new people joined.
And were they Antifa, Black Lives Matter, any particular group?
I'm guessing.
I didn't go down there.
I can't say for certain, but I'm guessing yes, it was probably Black Lives Matter and Antifa probably got together.
Right.
And a few other radical groups, you know, that I don't know of.
I think this would be a good time to take a short break.
How bad is it?
Your back, knee, or neck pain?
My knee pain was awful!
I probably tried the same things you're trying to manage your pain.
Topical ointments, pain relievers, fish oil, but nothing worked.
Then I tried Omega XL.
And here's why.
The underlying cause of painful, achy joints and muscles is inflammation.
The key is to knock down inflammation before it causes permanent damage.
Backed by 35 years of research, that's exactly what Omega XL does.
Nothing comes close to doing what Omega XL does.
There's nothing like it.
If you're suffering with painful, achy joints and muscles, stop wasting money and switch to Omega XL.
Order Omega XL now and get a second bottle free.
Visit omegaxl.com slash Rudy.
That's omegaxl.com slash Rudy or call 1-800-844-4888.
800-844-4888.
Welcome back to our interview with Andor.
When did the call first come for David to respond to help his friend who owned the pawn shop?
It was around 2.06 a.m.
And was that on the 1st?
It had already become the 2nd, June 2nd.
So it was on June 2nd.
June 2nd at 2 a.m.
So it was roughly going into the second day of the more violent protests.
Yeah, the protests turned violent earlier that evening.
And that night, were they violent that night when he was called?
Yeah, we had watched, as we watched the news, I got home a little after eight o'clock, we started watching the news.
One of our convenience stores was being burnt down.
Officers were protecting it.
Firemen, they were protecting firemen who were trying to put the fire out.
And several officers took gunfire and were shot at that fire scene.
So, before David was shot, four officers were shot in one incident.
Yes.
In a different part of St.
Louis.
Yes.
And they were guarding a... A convenience store.
A convenience store.
7-Eleven?
7-Eleven.
7-Eleven store.
And a shootout took place there.
So you were already aware of the fact that these officers had been taken to the hospital.
Yes.
And that there was a shooting.
Yes.
And then a couple hours later, Dave gets a call to go help watch his friend's store.
Yeah, the alarm had gone off at the store, and anytime the alarm went off, the alarm company would call Dave.
Dave was closest.
The owner, for the most part, lived in Florida, but his contact people didn't live close.
They were 30-minute drives.
So as far as you know now, having reconstructed, what happened?
David left?
Went to Florida?
David left.
I went to look at the store.
Usually he wakes me up to tell me he's going.
He didn't wake me up this time for whatever reason.
From what I understand, he went to the store to check on things, but the call had come in that the building had already been breached.
Gotcha.
Had the store been breached?
The store had been breached.
In the past, the store had never been breached when he'd gotten calls.
It was a vibration alarm or there was a motion sensor inside and it was usually a room that set it off.
Um, when I, when we got those calls, I didn't worry too much.
Um, but this night it was breached.
The front door had been open.
Um, the cameras inside had picked up activity inside.
So I don't know if the alarm company had relayed that to him because there's multiple calls from the alarm company.
I do know from people, there was a video, someone live streamed the incident on Facebook of my husband being murdered.
So someone live streamed it other than the murderers?
Yes.
Probably connected with, maybe connected with the murderers, but took a full video record of it?
Yes.
And what happened?
um he was he confronted some of the um the looters that were there he was talking to him according to the two guys he was just talking to him like hey this isn't worth it they're used tvs that's all you're going to get out of there is some used tv and some junk everything all the valuable stuff's are locked up And he's trying to talk to him and just tell him, hey, go away.
Just leave.
Everything will be okay if you guys just leave.
And the guys were actually having a conversation with him.
And the suspect walked up and pretty much said, F you old man, and shot him point blank.
And what's this man's name?
Stephen Cannon.
Stephen Cannon.
How old was he?
28 years old.
Prior record, I'm sure.
He was on probation for two prior robbery first.
Of course.
Armed robberies.
And David died immediately?
I don't know.
Yeah.
I don't know.
But he was hit very bad.
It was a fatal injury.
Yeah, from the beginning, he was hit very bad.
Yeah.
So what did that... impossible to answer this question, but what did that mean to you?
I mean, how did... to you and the family when you get news like that?
I mean, people hear about this, but they have no idea what it's like until it absolutely...
Absolutely.
I've had the unfortunate duty of telling women sometimes that their husband was killed by a firefighter or police officer in the line of duty.
I don't know how to do it.
I've had other people die in my family.
My mother's passed away.
It's different.
It's totally different.
It's so different.
David was my soulmate.
He was my life partner.
Maybe if you'd been sick, you know, or something like that.
Healthy man.
Very healthy man.
Healthy 77 year old, which is a blessing from God.
I feel like a blessing.
Thank you, God.
But then if you're healthy like that, you expect...
I don't know.
I don't say you expect to live 30 years, but you expect to live 10 or 15 or maybe even 20 years.
We were planning vacations.
I have friends that are 94 and 95 and they're sharp as a tack.
Then I know a few people who are in their 70s and can't finish a sentence, but I'm not going to say who.
So, you went through what every one of my aunts I had four uncles who were cops.
Went through every night.
And particularly after a relative in our family was killed, a police officer.
It was every call.
Every call.
Unless it was a set call that the husband had set up with the wife.
Like I always call at four when my tour is over.
But if they got a call at two o'clock in the afternoon, oh!
It was like the whole atmosphere changed for about 30 seconds.
Yeah, and we called each other.
You lived with that for both of yourselves?
We did, and we always called each other.
You know, if I was going to something pretty serious or he was going to something pretty serious, we'd let each other know.
And then we'd call when everything was said and done.
When you go through, and how long were you married?
We were married for 14 years.
We lived together for the last 20.
So, did you have an arrangement for this?
About how to do this?
I mean, this is a little bit strange in the sense that he was worried about your getting killed and you were worried about his getting killed.
You knew it could happen.
You knew it was unlikely.
I mean, not every cop gets killed, but you knew it was also quite possible.
We never really talked about it as far as, you know, it happening because we knew we were both very well trained.
We were pretty tactically sound, you know, but it's all, it's God's will if it's going to happen, you know.
We trained for the worst and just hope for the best.
Were there other times you expected it might happen?
Had you had other scares?
Being scared?
No, not with him.
Him, with you?
Him with me always.
He always worried about me, I think, a little more.
Well, then he was a very good man.
Yeah, he always worried about me a little more.
I worked in a couple of units that he didn't care for.
Tough.
Tough units, yeah.
That he didn't always care for.
I worked in the high schools and I worked with the gangs all the time.
So I got, you know, but I ended up a relationship, my relationship with the gang members became one of mom.
We'll be back with this very, very interesting interview with Ann Dorn in just a few moments.
I couldn't believe we were evicted from our home that we didn't even sell.
Those are the words of a homeowner, Deborah, when she learned she was the victim of home title fraud.
It's a devastating crime that can cost you your home.
And title fraud is not covered by insurance or common identity theft services.
The only folks to trust, that I know of, to protect your home's title is Home Title Lock.
Cyberthieves have discovered the titles to our homes are kept online.
They forge your name on your deed, stating you sold your home, and they refile as the new owner.
In Debra's case, she didn't even know she was a victim until the eviction notice arrived in her mail.
Home Title Lock protects you and your home by putting a virtual barrier around your home's title.
The instant they detect tampering, they mobilize to shut it down.
Go online to hometitlelock.com and register your address to see if you're already a victim and don't know it.
Then use code Rudy.
That's me. And sign up for 30 free days of protection. That's code Rudy at home title lock.com.
Welcome back to our interview with and or one.
Now, the thing about David that I also noted in the newspaper that drew me to him, aside from the beautiful description of his personality, was the fact that from very early on he worked with young people and he saw the value of being police officers into work with young people, which I personally think is the most important thing that could be done and should be supported on a massive level.
And it could turn this whole thing around.
But that's me because of the PAO and the Boys and Girls Clubs and just the kind of work I've seen on my own and participated in.
But David started a lot of that at a time when it wasn't Well, it really didn't have a name.
It was just something he did.
It was community policing at its best.
If you saw kids out playing in the park, you'd get out and play with them.
And some of these kids could be somebody he might have arrested.
Two months ago, or wasn't arrested two weeks.
Or kept them from getting arrested and they decided to become a policeman just because he played in the park with them.
Right.
So he was the kind of police officer, like we said, during the incident that took his life, where he would first say, no reason for this.
You can just put it down and go away.
Yeah.
And you don't have a record.
Yeah.
He'd give you a break in a minute.
He's a really wise, wise police officer.
But at least one of them, Had this meanness or whatever in his heart.
He's just gonna kill him.
He's gonna kill the old man.
How it struck you when it happened?
Total shock.
Total shock.
Devastating.
And now we are... Three months.
Three months later.
Gosh.
How does this feel now?
Still doesn't feel real.
And what are you doing?
What are you doing to deal with it for you and for the kids?
Um, we've stayed active.
The kids and I have grown.
Some of us have grown a lot closer.
Good.
We talk on a regular basis.
Um, I did a peace march in honor of Dave this past weekend, trying to bring the community together.
Did it work?
We had, you know, for our very first march planning in three weeks, we had probably almost 200 people show up.
That's very good.
And, um, it was, you know, calling for peace, calling for, let's just start talking.
Um, that's always been my premise when I worked in the schools with gang members.
Let's sit down and talk.
Let's see what we can do.
So let me talk to you for just a few moments on the other side of your own professional experience.
So you, from a professional point of view, you've watched, well, first you watched a little bit from afar, Ferguson, and Ferguson had an effect on St.
Louis, not like Ferguson, but you had your problems here.
Oh yeah.
And now with this one, how, how, How bad did it get once it turned after a few nights from legitimate protests of Mr. Floyd's death to more or less hijacked riots where stores like your
Your husband's French store were looted and robbed.
These riots were different.
The other riots were anger.
The Ferguson riots were anger.
A lot of people acting out the Ferguson riots.
These riots were organized, systematic, planned.
There was a lot of thinking and planning going into these riots.
Was that local, St.
Louis, Antifa, BLM, or people from outside?
I think both.
But there were a significant number of people from outside that were involved.
Oh, yes.
Now, when it turned riot, car put on fire, window open, pawn shop looted, liquor store looted, did it...
Were there immediate arrests made?
No.
And why was that?
I mean, the conventional handling of a riot is to arrest a first person, to dissuade the others from rioting.
Usually the first person is the easiest one.
He throws a rock or he spits in a police officer's face.
You arrest that, you set a tone, you're not getting this for free.
So that didn't happen.
In the first couple of nights of this rioting?
I wasn't working those riots, so I wasn't at work, of course.
The first night I had the night off, the other nights, of course, I was dealing with family.
But from what I understand and the rumors I hear, they had the order to stand down.
They issued an order to stand down, and how long did that last?
How many nights did that last?
That came from the mayor, of course.
I'm not sure.
It came from somewhere up top.
So it had to come from the top of the department or the mayor.
Yeah.
And how long did that order remain to stand down?
A few days, I think.
A couple days?
Two, three days of burning, riots, beatings, massive theft.
I think with the death of David and officers getting hurt, some of the officers have said enough.
And I don't know when the turn came.
I don't know if it was the officers saying enough.
So after three or four nights of uninterrupted looting, robbing, theft, murder, four police officers shot, one police officer dead, There came a time when arrests were made.
Yes.
But weren't many of those people arrested very quickly released from prison?
Oh, yes.
Yeah, not even probably 12 hours, 24 hours.
Was that part of the policy of the district attorney?
Yeah, we do have a problem with our district attorney.
Your district attorney was elected almost five years ago now.
Yes.
Largely bankrolled by George Soros.
And it was a big issue in the community.
Why was he coming into the community that he has no interest in and electing a district attorney?
And at the time, I don't think it was realized he was doing it in 25 or 26 or 27 other separate communities throughout America.
A lot of people, I don't think a lot of people knew he was doing it at that time.
People don't know it today.
People don't know today that these people are puppets of George Soros and they follow a script.
The script is decline a lot of prosecutions.
She declines about 60%.
A lot, yeah.
So the police come into her office and more times than not they're thrown out.
Yes.
Has to be terrible for police morale.
Oh, the morale is horrible.
And then of the 40 left, she prosecutes successfully some woefully low percentage, 30%.
20-30% maybe.
So all the rest of them go free.
Yes.
So she's sort of like a recycling mill for criminals back to the street.
Yes.
Now the crime rate here since this all started has gone up.
It was already not so good, but it's gone up dramatically.
It's gone up dramatically, and so has our homicide rate.
Homicide rate, I think, is kind of getting you into the number two in the country.
Yeah, last year we were number one, and we're probably back up to that number again.
Now you're a city of only 300,000.
Yes.
So what has to be done to change this?
This can't go on forever.
This isn't America.
America, there's respect for law, there's respect for the police, there's respect for authority, there's the ability to challenge authority with peaceful protests.
Oh, yeah.
But when peaceful protests are consistently turning into riots, you almost have to believe the police protests are being done to kind of give a background, it's like, for the riot.
Maybe another way, if I knew that four nights in a row my peaceful protest turned into a riot, killing people and destroying stores, I'd stop the peaceful protest.
Yeah.
Is it still going on?
On occasion.
We do have small groups that want to protest, but we're trying to stay on top of them to keep them from getting violent.
We try to contain them to an area.
Our police departments, the police department itself, when allowed to do what we need to do, I believe we can really make an effective change in the protests.
We're very well trained to stop it.
We're very well trained to even prevent it.
Talk to them.
We have phenomenal de-escalation training.
And from what you could tell, was any of that utilized here?
Trying to stop them, trying to work with them?
When it was allowed.
When did that happen?
I'm not sure.
But after some nights of rioting?
Yeah.
Then there's a situation with the district attorney just generally turning down cases, including murder cases.
Yes.
And then prosecuting just a small number of them.
And that creates a barrier between her and the police department.
Yeah, and it should the citizens too.
You know, the victims' families are affected by this as well.
The victims' families and neighbors.
You know, because if you don't prosecute these murderers, they're right back out on the street.
And then it just amplifies the fear in these communities.
And how are you coming with healing your family?
We're doing well.
We're hanging in there.
We're using each other.
The kids are pretty good.
Well, he was really a hero.
His whole life.
Oh, yeah.
Really a hero.
And he was a hero to his kids.
We want to make sure that people know who he is and what he did and that he exemplifies 99.9% of the African-American, white, and other police officers.
And he's a police officer without Color identity politics.
Oh, he he didn't care what color you were black or white.
He'd help you.
Well, but he has some big shoes to fill Well, let's hope we have a few that can do that because we're gonna need it very badly Oh, yes, and I do know we have very very fine police officer and and or thank you So obviously is reflected on these things very very deeply and thank you very much and anything I can do We're there to help.
Thank you God bless you Well, that concludes our interview with Anne Dorn.
Quite a moving interview and quite a compelling story of a man who was a fine police officer and married to a wife who's a police sergeant and equally fine police officer.
They knew their lives were at risk every night, yet they served.
And the horrible time came and we can't forget the sacrifice of David Dorn.
To help and save the people of this city.
▲
Export Selection