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June 11, 2020 - Rudy Giuliani
36:39
Police Brutality: A Presentation of the Facts | Ep. 43
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It's our purpose to bring to bear the principle of common sense and rational discussion to the issues of our day.
America was created at a time of great turmoil, tremendous disagreements, anger, hatred.
There was a book written in 1776 that guided much of the discipline of thinking that brought us to the discovery of our freedoms, of our God-given freedoms.
It was Thomas Paine's Common Sense, written in 1776, one of the first American bestsellers in which Thomas Paine explained by rational principles the reason why these small colonies felt the necessity to separate from the powerful Kingdom of England and the King of England.
He explained their inherent desire for liberty, freedom, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and he explained it in ways that were understandable to the people, to all of the people.
A great deal of the reason for America's constant ability to self-improve is because we are able to reason, we're able to talk to each other, we're able to listen to each other, and we're able to analyze.
We are able to apply our God-given common sense.
So let's do it.
Hello, this is Rudy Giuliani and I'm back with Rudy Giuliani's Common Sense.
Today's...
subject is going to be police brutality.
Of course, the reason for that is, since the death of George Floyd several weeks ago, and then the protests, and then the riots that followed the protest, and the continuing protests, now mostly peaceful but still with some outbreaks of violence, the whole issue of police brutality has come to the fore.
The lawful protesters are protesting not only the death of Mr. Floyd, but they're also protesting the general subject of police brutality, which they see as afflicting mostly all the police and all the police departments in the country.
They see it as a systemic problem.
I agree with the protesters on the outrage with regard to the death of Mr. Floyd.
From the evidence that we have and that we can see, although you never prejudge a case, but this is one of such public importance and presented so much to the public, you just have to say from what you see that it looks like a case of deliberate murder by the police officer Who applies his knee, I believe it was for nine minutes, to the neck of Mr. Floyd.
And it looks like intentional murder, because the police officer was warned four times, five times, that the man couldn't breathe.
I believe he was also told the man was maybe already dead.
Compound all that with the fact that The police officer standing by, the second police officer,
let's call him, was doing nothing but apparently seeming to try to keep the people away from Police Officer Chauvin,
who was the first police officer, while Police Officer Chauvin was applying his weight to Mr. Floyd's neck.
So there we have what looks like an accomplice, certainly aiding and abetting, assisting in the murder of Mr. Floyd.
With regard to the two other police officers that were involved, the only thing we see is probably two of them,
certainly one of them, with his knee in or around Mr. Floyd's back at some point in the attempt to subdue him, if that's
what they were doing.
Their liability is probably in more doubt, and we probably shouldn't speculate on that until we either have more evidence or we go to trial.
In the year 2019, which is the last year for which we have, you know, good FBI statistics,
they're not really available yet for 2020, there were nine fatalities by the police
shooting an unarmed black.
Which of course raises always the question then of, was it in order to deal with a crime, in order to bring about self-defense, defense of other police officers, or was it totally unjustified?
And when the man is unarmed, it becomes a much stronger case of an unjustified killing.
Not always, but much stronger.
So there were nine of those situations, just nine, in 2019.
I think you're going to find that surprising because I think you probably think there are far many more than that because each one of them got so much more scrutiny than just a murder.
By the same token, there were 20 such incidents involving whites.
In other words, the police shot and killed a white man who was unarmed 20 times, nine times, for people who are black.
Even more important than that, you've got to compare that, then that nine times, To the number of times blacks are killed.
Of course, blacks are the biggest number of victims in our society.
In a city like Minneapolis, for example, the last year that we have a study of, the percentage of blacks killed in Minneapolis was 79%.
79%.
That's an extraordinary percentage, given the fact that there were only 18% of the population.
If you want to get even more particular, we're really talking about mostly, overwhelmingly black men, and they constitute more like 8% of the population, or 7%.
So look at the disparity.
That's an unbelievable disparity.
That leaves Hispanic victims, Asian victims, and very, very few white victims.
So in Minneapolis, the crime of murder victimizes blacks, if not exclusively, almost exclusively.
And the number of perpetrators It's almost in line with that.
It's somewhere between 70 and 79 percent.
So basically what you have is intraracial crime.
Blacks kill mostly blacks, whites kill mostly whites, and the number of killings is much, much smaller, but it's still intraracial, and then similar for Hispanics.
If we look at the overall crime numbers in the United States, there's all of the United States.
The older cities that have large black populations, some of the South that has large black populations, and then other places where there's almost no black population, still the largest number of victims of murder and other serious violent crimes are blacks, about 52 to 53 percent.
And again, very similarly, the number of and percentage of murderers, people committing the murders, are also black.
So you have nationwide a very, very substantial number of black-on-black crimes and a very small number of incidents with the police.
In fact, if you look at all of the times in which police killed blacks in 2019, including many of which were in the course of a crime and were fully justified or self-defense and involved people with guns and weapons, the whole number comes to about 235.
Which is very, very small in comparison to the number of times blacks were killed overall.
And that number, you sort of have to do an extrapolation from the 17,300 murders, and it's something like 8,000 black, mostly men, were killed in the United States in 2019.
And again, nine turned out to be unarmed black men.
All the rest were killings done by civilians, and probably 7,000 of those were on black crime.
And now I think it's time to take a short break.
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Thank you.
Welcome back to our discussion of police brutality.
So when you look at police brutality, you cannot look at it isolated as the Antifa people
and the racial hucksters and the Democrats They're trying to let you look at it as if it's a problem all by itself.
It exists all by itself.
There's no reason for it other than racism.
I mean, they'll argue that even if the police officer is a black police officer killing a black man.
That it's somehow racism.
Well, sometimes it is.
Sometimes it's a police officer who just shouldn't be a police officer.
And sometimes, and many times, it's a justifiable act, because in most cases, the police are arresting criminals, and criminals The more violent they are, resist arrest.
Probably the biggest thing left out of the analysis is, if you completely eliminated police brutality, and we didn't have any police brutality, none, all the reforms worked, 99% of the blacks who were killed would still be killed.
99% plus.
So, yes, if you eliminate police brutality, you have accomplished something good.
You've removed improper behavior by the police.
Sometimes that goes to a fatal conclusion.
You've made society and policing fairer.
You've reduced some of the tension in the community.
But you really haven't saved black lives, have you?
And here's the hypocrisy with this whole Black Lives Matter movement.
It really isn't a Black Lives Matter movement.
It's actually those black lives killed by police matter.
Because the rest of those six or seven or eight thousand killed by blacks or others virtually are ignored.
Even very, very dramatic ones.
In the middle of all this.
A retired police captain who had actually been the chief of a small police department as well as a member of the St.
Louis Police Department.
38 years experience as a police officer.
A man who was involved in youth programs almost from the beginning of the time he was a police officer with his wife who was also a police sergeant.
Her name is Captain David Dorn.
In the middle of all this, he was assassinated.
While he was doing a friend a favor, having been a retired law enforcement officer, he was in his car watching his friend's store, which was a pawn shop, a P-A-W-N shop.
And in the course of that, he was shot and killed.
And he was clearly shot and killed because he was going to get in the way of the looters, who then proceeded to Crash open the store, go in, and take just about everything out of it.
And this murder of Captain Dorn has received very little attention.
Haven't heard of any protests for Captain Dorn, have you?
I remember seeing major things on it on NBC, the other networks, MSNBC.
I've seen it mentioned, but I haven't seen any real analysis of it.
I don't see any of the Black Lives Matter people concerned about it.
I mean, the man was a black police officer, but to them, That life didn't matter.
It matters to me.
I bet it matters to you.
But it doesn't matter to them.
Nor do they seem to be terribly concerned that two weekends ago, I think it was 80 people were injured in Chicago and I don't see any of the Black Lives Matter people caring about that.
Many of those people that were killed were black.
Many of the perpetrators were black.
And a lot of it happened in the black neighborhoods of Chicago, where murder seems to be now at levels that would happen in a war zone.
I mean, killings happen to be at a level that seem to be the numbers you would have in a war zone.
But there's no demonstrations about that.
There's no suggestions about what you do about it.
There's no concern about the victims.
They're all anonymous.
And even when you get a prominent victim, one that does and should receive attention, the only place you hear about is on Fox.
The rest of the place is just my little story.
And what looks to me like the protesters couldn't give a damn.
So if they're carrying around signs, the ones who are officially members of Black Lives Matter, or the ones who are sympathetic with Black Lives Matter, what about Captain Dorn's life?
What about the 6,000, 7,000, 8,000 blacks that are killed every year?
Many of them, most of them, by other blacks.
What about their lives?
To see the integrity of the statement, Black Lives Matter, when most blacks were killed, their lives are ignored by the Black Lives Matter movement and by all those thousands and thousands and thousands of protesters who are protesting police brutality Which is a small percentage of the killing of blacks.
And they are ignoring the vast majority of thousands and thousands of people killed because in some places we can't seem to get a handle on black-on-black crime like Chicago.
We'll be back with you very shortly.
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Welcome back to Common Sense.
If we're going to solve the problem of police brutality, we're not going to solve it unless we also solve or substantially reduce the problem of black-on-black crime, because they're inextricably connected in so many ways.
Another statistical analysis that is really necessary, because it's done all the time, the most recent one being a couple of days ago in an article in the notorious New York Times.
The New York Times had a headline that said, I believe it was, Blacks in Minneapolis confronted by police seven times more than whites.
That sounds bad, doesn't it?
Seven times more?
I mean, there are only 18% of the population, blacks are, in Minneapolis, and they're confronted seven times more than whites?
Sounds like it must be discrimination or racism or something.
And the Times leaves it there.
The Times leaves it there.
It doesn't tell you the rest of what I'm going to tell you.
Why they would do that is beyond comprehension.
Because there is an explanation.
There are more facts that have to be added that don't create the kind of tension and division that writing a story like that creates.
I mean, you're fueling the flames.
of a problem that is a real problem, but you've taken it to hysterical and exaggerated levels, and now you're compounding it with a false story.
Because here's the explanation for why blacks are confronted seven times more in Minneapolis than whites.
Because they commit somewhere between 70% and 79% of the violent crimes in Minneapolis, even though they're just 18% of the population.
And the number of times they're confronted is proportionate to the number of crimes they commit.
I'll make it even more understandable.
It's proportionate to the number of times they are identified as suspects.
They're identified as suspects between 70 and 79% of the times, and they are confronted between 70 and 79% of the time.
and they are confronted between 70 and 79 percent of the time.
Now why is that important?
They are recognized as suspects because the way they become suspects almost always
is someone reporting who they believe committed the murder or who they believe committed the rape
or who they believe committed the aggravated assault and in almost every case the person
reporting it is a black person.
So, the police are drawn Eight or nine times more.
It turns out to be seven times.
It could be eight or nine times more, given the numbers, into the black community at the request of other blacks who say, come here and find the murderer.
Come here and find the person who raped my child.
Come here and find the person who beat us up or robbed us.
Here's the description of the person.
They don't make it up.
They don't sit there and say, oh, we're going to go into the black community seven times more than the white community.
They go into the black community seven times more than the white community because they're called into the black community to save the innocent people in the black community.
And of course, it's the vast majority of the black community.
And in fact, it's enormously effective.
I reduced murder in New York City by 60 percent.
My successor, who continued many of the programs that I had started, and the main one, Comstat Broken Windows, I think he brought it up to about 75 percent.
I did it with programs to reduce crime, very intricate ones and very important ones, and Program being the one that organized it all.
But I did it by assigning more police to the areas that had more crime.
I didn't assign more police based on race.
I assigned more police based on crime, based on protecting people's lives.
And if there were more murders in a black community, Then a white community, black lives were just as important to me as white lives.
And I put more police there, even though in many occasions I was reducing police departments in white areas.
And there'd be some anger and annoyance at that, but I put them where the crime was in order to protect people's lives.
Because I don't see lives as black lives and white lives, Hispanic lives.
I think any public official who does, doesn't understand the oath of office they take.
I saw all lives as being sacred.
And in assigning more police, as well as very, very well-constructed programs, I was very fortunate to have three enormously talented police commissioners and the most talented police force in the country, if not in the world.
But it took more police.
It wasn't done just by Comstat.
It wasn't done just by programs I wrote on a piece of paper.
Those programs had to be carried out by police officers, and we needed more police officers in order to bring down crime than the number that we had.
I had to take advantage of the crime bill.
That offered 100,000 police officers nationwide, one that all the Democrats, including Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer, who helped author it, have run away from.
I acquired two other police departments.
I did two mergers and acquisitions, so I get another 5,000 police.
And because of the assignment of those police, we brought crime down during my tenure by 60%, overall 75%.
Realize how many black lives were saved by doing that?
The biggest beneficiary was by far the black community.
Murder was actually brought down in the black community more than any place else, which is where it had to be brought down, because it constituted anywhere from 70% to 80% of the murders in New York City.
If you didn't bring it down to the black community, they weren't going to bring it down at all.
And we brought it down dramatically, even more than 60% in that community.
And we saved thousands and thousands of lives.
Because those lives mattered to us.
Those lives do not seem to matter to Black Lives Matter or their mindless followers who don't bother to analyze what I'm
saying to you, and don't seem to care about Captain Dorn or the black
Americans who were probably killed last night in Chicago.
To my way of thinking, I mean, that could be racism in itself, couldn't it?
When you make decisions like this based on race or political exploitation or some kind of a strange desire to
be an anarchist or bring down our government or defeat a political candidate,
To use race in this way?
So as you reflect on this, if we're going to solve police brutality, which I think we're capable of doing, we're only going to solve it if we identify it properly.
And to identify it properly, we can't pretend because that's what the media wants us to do.
I mean, they intimidate corporations and athletes, and they intimidate them with False information, propaganda, and then fear of being ostracized and vilified and called names if you don't agree with them.
That police brutality is the single biggest cause of all the problems in the world.
And if you continue to look at it that way, you're never going to solve it.
Because you're not going to be able to solve police brutality until you solve the overall level of crime in the black community.
Because the thing that brings police into the black community is the overall level of crime in the black community.
So it has to be all dealt with.
If you're going to be honest with people, if you're going to tell people the truth, or are you going to do what the Democratic Party has done for 40 years to the black community, which is to take advantage of them, to lie to them, to give them ill-conceived programs that take away A lot.
And give very little.
So here's a brief approach to it, and we'll have another episode in which we go into how to reduce and eliminate police brutality, and then how to reduce—you're never going to eliminate black-on-black crime, just like you're never going to eliminate all crime.
But how you can reduce it dramatically, the way I reduced it in New York.
We'll have separate episodes on that.
But here's an outline of how this should be approached.
First of all, police brutality should be taken very, very seriously.
Even one act is too many.
And particularly in the times in which we live, a police officer who loses control of himself and acts brutally is putting in jeopardy the lives of other police officers.
So there's no room for that.
So how do we reduce it and eliminate it?
Very careful vetting of people when they become police officers.
Very careful vetting and try to focus on factors that are going to bring this out, you know, in advance.
Not possible to do all the time.
Secondly, significant training and courtesy, professionalism, and respect.
That is necessary and has to be repeated on a regular basis.
The way lawyers and doctors have continuing legal education.
Incorporating it in the CompStat evaluation program so that there's accountability for it.
And when there are repeated acts of police brutality or things approaching police brutality, police officers can be removed before something happens like this.
Police officer Chauvin, who had I think 18 Complaints against him.
That's a lot.
I don't know the details of them.
They will tell you a lot about whether this was a racist act, whether it was a sadistic act, whether the man was disturbed.
It will also tell you a lot about whether there should have been action taken against him in advance.
The other police officer who was watching also had a rather disproportionate number of complaints, about eight or nine.
So, That's the way to kind of focus on, hone in on police brutality and start reducing it.
And those changes should be made, if they haven't been made already, in every police department.
And police departments that have made those changes should redouble them.
On the other side of it, the black community, leaders in the black community, have to take accountability for the high levels of black-on-black crime.
And they have to take the major responsibility in reducing it.
They certainly can ask and should get the help of the government with responsible programs that will assist in doing that.
And I have a couple of really good suggestions of the kinds of programs that would really assist.
A lot of them having to do with bringing the police And the young people in the community together so that they understand each other better.
Because a lot of the problem, if you want to get close to a more repetitious problem for blacks, in terms of dealing with police, is disrespectful behavior.
And behavior that isn't what it should be.
I think, first of all, there may be a higher sensitivity on the part of black people because of the way in which All of that has to be dealt with, as I said, together.
It doesn't happen in a vacuum.
fear factor on behalf of the police officers, or in some cases, very bad attitudes.
All of that has to be dealt with, as I said, together.
It doesn't happen in a vacuum.
So as we go through this, as we go through this horrible situation about Mr. Floyd and the way he was killed,
Hopefully, you know, justice will occur there.
It looks like it's on the right track.
FBI has already gotten involved in the case.
The prosecutor moved swiftly.
You could argue that the charges should be Murder 1 rather than Murder 2.
They may eventually be Murder 1.
He did start at Murder 3 and go up to Murder 2.
But certainly you can't say the case isn't being paid attention to in the legal system.
It is getting expeditious and very, very intense attention.
But equal attention should be given to the situation involving Captain Dorn, and equal attention should be given to the other ways in which we're losing way too many lives in the black community.
If we can see them both together, And we can talk honestly to each other without fear of being called a racist if you say something that somebody thinks is insensitive and you didn't mean it.
I mean, we throw that charge around so often now.
Do you know it almost doesn't mean anything anymore?
Let's see if we can discuss this honestly.
You know, let's take the risk that somebody's going to say something a little bit insensitive if they talk honestly.
So we can get it out on the table and we can resolve it.
We can do that.
We can do that because we're Americans, first and foremost.
There isn't a higher value to anyone's life because of their race or religion or ethnic background, or less value.
We're all children of God and we all have to be seen that way.
And hopefully, If we can talk to each other about this, get the politically motivated, the monetarily motivated, the ideologically motivated out of it, and just the people who in good faith want to solve it in it.
And there are plenty of those in both communities.
There are plenty of those in the police department, and there are plenty of those in the black community.
They can resolve it a lot better than the people who have been misconstruing it for years now.
We'll have more on this in future episodes, but I thank you very, very much for your attention.
And please, send me any questions you have.
Go to my website, and whatever questions you have about this, I really would appreciate your comments.
Thank you very much, and we'll be back in the near future with another episode of Rudy Giuliani's Common Sense.
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