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May 29, 2020 - Rudy Giuliani
55:06
BENGHAZI EXPOSED, Interview with Mark Geist | Ep. 40
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It's our purpose to bring to bear the principle of common sense and rational discussion to the issues of our day.
America was created at a time of great turmoil, tremendous disagreements, anger, hatred.
There was a book written in 1776 that guided much of the discipline of thinking that brought us to the discovery of our freedoms, of our God-given freedoms.
It was Thomas Paine's Common Sense, written in 1776, one of the first American bestsellers in which Thomas Paine explained by rational principles the reason why these small colonies felt the necessity to separate from the powerful Kingdom of England and the King of England.
He explained their inherent desire for liberty, freedom, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and he explained it in ways that were understandable to the people, to all of the people.
A great deal of the reason for America's constant ability to self-improve is because we are able to reason, we're able to talk to each other, we're able to listen to each other, and we're able to analyze.
We are able to apply our God-given common sense.
So let's do it.
♪♪ Hello again, this is Rudy Giuliani with Rudy's Common Sense.
Today we have as a guest someone I'm sure you know and are going to be very excited to listen to because he really is an exceptional person and a hero and someone who was on the inside of I guess one of the biggest puzzles and one of the worst things that's happened to us in the last 20 years, this attack that took place in Benghazi.
And Mark Geist was part of the team that went in and rescued and helped save a lot of people, at least 25 lives saved, and believes, as you will hear, that maybe they could have done even more if they had been utilized in the right way.
Mark has gone on now and helped to write a book, 13 Days.
It became a movie.
I've just watched it again for the third or fourth time, and it really gives you a good picture.
I'm going to ask him how accurate, and then ask him a few questions about that and then also about how things stand now.
And Mark, you might remember, spoke at the Republican convention in 2016.
And has been very active in a number of things now, so we want to catch up with him also.
Mark, it's a pleasure to have you with us, and once again, as I've told you before, congratulations to you and your colleagues for what you did.
It was very, very necessary at the time and very brave.
Well, thank you, Mayor.
It's an honor to be here.
In this particular facility, the compound, in the months leading up to September 11, 2012, it had been attacked a number of times, hadn't it?
I mean, there had been attacks on it, and I think they had kind of put a hole, there was a hole in the wall that had to be fixed.
Yeah, they put in a, it was basically an IED.
Kind of a gelatina bomb or a sticky bomb that they put against the wall and blew a hole in it.
You know, kind of testing the reaction.
I mean, to me, I think that was, from a tactical standpoint, in my background, I think that was just testing the waters.
You know, let's put something on there, see how they react, see if they upgrade their systems.
And we didn't do nothing.
We actually downgraded the protection that the ambassador had.
So this, this had to be listed somewhere as a very dangerous place.
Yes.
In a very, very sensitive region.
Yes.
I mean, in a conflict, in a conflict zone.
Yeah.
Out of, you know, the state department has roughly 270 some odd facilities around the world.
And I think there's 10 of them, or at least at that time there was 10 that were listed and critical in security measures.
Uh, and danger and it was one of the top 10.
So, but as far as you could tell, it got no special attention.
In fact, if anything, they reduced the security.
Yeah, they, yeah, yeah.
They pulled off the extra security that the ambassador had that was provided by DOD.
Um, you know, and I think it was the administration at the time, their outlook on things was, you know, they, they came at it from kind of a passive, I mean, um, A passive way and that, you know, we helped them so they all love us.
Well, that ain't the case.
Yeah.
I mean, all those attacks should have given them the message that they didn't really love us.
I mean, they don't start firing mortar shells at you if they love you.
Right.
The, I guess, I don't know if it's consular or whoever, the equivalent of a ambassador for the Brits.
I mean, they shot a rocket propelled grenade into his vehicle.
Luckily they lived.
And that was probably less than two months before, right around two months before Benghazi on September 11th.
And he took off, didn't he?
Yep.
They closed their compound, didn't they?
Yes, they did.
Okay.
So that's the stage when Ambassador Stevens comes to visit.
And why was he visiting?
You know, I don't know for sure exactly.
I mean, I, quite honestly, I always did my best to stay away from politicians or the ambassadors any place I worked.
I mean, one, just for protecting my own identity because an inadvertent slip or something like that.
So I think the day that he came to the annex, I was in the movie.
They show that I was there.
But in reality, I was out on a move doing some Some surveillance or something like that that day.
But your basic job and the other five guys was to protect the compound and the people in it.
And when the ambassador was coming, was there any special, anything that was done about security because the ambassador was coming?
At the consulate?
No.
At our facility, I mean, our facility, we were, like I said, we were, there were six of us that were, all of us, I think combined, I added it up, had about 250 years of experience in military tactics.
Compare that to the security detail that protected the ambassador.
I think they had less than 50.
And who were they?
What kind of resources did he have at the compound?
He had what they call DSS agents or diplomatic security services agents that work for the State Department.
How many?
He had five.
Any Marines?
No, there was two of them that had experience in the Army, and then their team lead had experience as an agent working for State Department when he was in Iraq.
But most of his time in Iraq, according to him, was spent in the Green Zone, not outside of it.
But like we're used to at an embassy, there weren't Marine guards or No, uh-uh.
There wasn't at the consulate.
There was none of that.
So that seems rather small.
I mean, there's six of you and five of them?
Yeah, five of them.
So 11.
And we weren't at their compound.
We were at our compound, which is separate.
Why was that?
Why were you separated that much from the place you were supposed to protect?
Well, see, our job was not designed to protect the consulate or the ambassador.
We were only there to protect the people from the CIA.
Is that right?
Yes.
Explain that to me.
Well, you know, because sometimes the CIA may operate separately from a State Department facility and for whatever reasons they choose to.
And that's why we're there.
Our job is specifically for them.
You know, State Department has their own people.
So you were protecting the CIA?
Yes, sir.
The CIA operatives?
Yes, sir.
At that time, unknown.
That was a top-secret mission.
Correct.
We were sort of painting the picture that Libya had worked.
Yes.
We got rid of Qaddafi.
We got a little problems there, but it's a lot better than it was before.
And the fact is, it was in complete chaos.
It was.
It was.
And we were trying to hide that, I believe, because we were in an election year.
And I think that drives a lot of the decision-making.
Yeah.
And I think that's what... I mean, I think a lot of that is what, like you said, So that's why it doesn't get secured anymore because you don't want it to look like it needs to be secured.
That's why you didn't put extra security there.
And we were relying on the locals to be our extra security, weren't we?
Something like that?
That is true.
Yeah, the State Department had hired a group called February 17th Martyrs Brigade.
Which they were the militia that was kind of the umbrella of where all the militias came underneath to fight against Gaddafi in 2011 when they started the overthrow.
Was there any warning that there would be an attack on the evening of September 11, 2012?
That morning we had received at the agency through a local Libyan government official that there was intel In Libya?
there was going to be attack on a government facility.
In Libya?
In Libya, in Benghazi.
In Benghazi.
All indications that it, from what the Libyans told us, is that it was going to be a Libyan government facility,
not a U.S. government facility.
So then when is the first time that you find out?
I mean, I think the exact time is 9.40 p.m.
that the attack began.
I think that's right.
When is the first time that you and your colleagues find out that there's an attack going on there?
Well, I myself, I was out in town that night.
Me and a female case officer were out on a dinner date with a local Libyan couple.
And I was, I got a phone call from Tyrone Woods, uh, whose call sign is Roan at about 940, um, 940 ish.
And he called me and said, Hey, you need to get back to the annex.
Stay away from the consulate.
Um, so I gathered up the female case officer.
We jumped in our vehicle and headed back.
We kind of, um, state went down the coast, headed, uh, headed down the coast and kind of come back through a back way.
Just because the consulate was kind of in between and I didn't know what was going on.
And when we turned our radio on, that's when I really realized what was happening over there.
So you realized there was an attack now on the compound?
Yes, sir.
Was there any mention of the ambassador being taken at that point?
No, at that point, the State Department guys, I don't believe, knew.
So one of the State Department guys, I will say this with them guys, they did what they were trained to do.
And their training was all based on the last whatever 10-15 years at that time in Iraq and Afghanistan.
And they grabbed the ambassador, the AIC, which is the agent in charge grabbed and put him in the safe room.
And the other guys went to grab their weapon systems, their long guns, they only had pistols on them.
And then The attack happened so fast and they had virtually no perimeter security that they were overran before the guys could get their weapons and come back and help protect the ambassador.
What happened to the Libyan security force in February?
Feb 17, guys.
They disappeared.
They left.
You think that was planned in advance or they just took off because they wanted to save their lives?
I think they probably just took off to save their lives.
I think they, you know, um, there was another group that was a, was a British company had hired some local Libyans and it was called, um, Blue Mountain Guard.
And they were, they were guys, they were the Libyans that were on the, basically the outside.
They controlled the entrance and exit gates, but they were unarmed guys.
Their whole thing was to have a Libyan face.
If somebody wanted to come meet somebody at the, at the US consulate, Or the U.S.
Special Mission Facility, they had a Libyan face to see who they were talking to.
And I think they're the guys that opened up the gates and let him in.
So when is the first time that it comes up that the six of you should go there?
Almost immediately.
The team lead for the State Department, his name's Alex, and Alex gave a call and said, hey, we are overran.
It wasn't he said we're under attack.
He said we are overran.
And we need help.
And our team immediately got back at the annex.
Everyone back at the annex.
The other five guys got kitted up, jumped in their vehicles, and probably within five minutes, we're ready to roll out of our gate, go help over at the consulate.
So how much time are we talking about now?
940 approximately is when you find out.
It takes you a little while to get back.
Well, I'm not back yet.
It took me 30 minutes to get back.
So when you got back, they were ready to go?
Well, they were already gone after I got back because I had and I took over security there.
The rest of the team, they were ready to go within five minutes.
So let's say 945.
They were ready to go.
And our chief of base, Bob, told them to wait and told them to stand down three different times.
At 945, they were ready to go?
Yes, sir.
And then he told them to stand down, to delay and stand down.
How much did that consume about?
Probably the next 15, 20 minutes.
And this information you get from your colleagues, you weren't there for that?
Yeah, from Tig and Tonto.
I mean, Bob actually spoke directly to Tig and Tonto, and that's what they relayed to me.
Yes, sir.
They were delayed about 20 minutes.
Yes, sir.
And then they just took off anyway, despite his...
Yeah, because the team leader came over the radio and he said,
if you don't get here now, we're going to all expletive die.
We're all gonna effin' die.
So basically, about 9.40, 9.45, they're ready to go.
The team leader there, who has to protect the ambassador, is calling you for help for a while.
You're ready to go, and the head of the annex, who we call Bob, right, the CIA, the top CIA person on site, right?
Yes, sir.
He says no delay.
Why would he do that?
Did he have any good reason for saying, stay back?
Having been in various leadership roles in my life, I try to look at it through his eyes.
I mean, he's in charge of a clandestine CIA base.
The last thing, he has 20 some people there.
If we leave, now granted everyone in the CIA is supposed to be trained in weapons, but we all know You know, sometimes that bar isn't set very high.
And one, he wanted to rely on February 17th Martyrs Brigade guys to come in and help.
Come in and help the compound, not the annex.
Yes.
He wanted you to stay and protect the annex, basically.
Yes.
Because the minute he let you go, he really lost his best protection.
Right, right.
He had something, but he didn't have experts.
Correct.
So that delay takes about 15 or 20 minutes, would you say?
Yes, sir.
And finally, they get another plea from the compound and they say, the hell with it, we're going to go.
Yep.
And they take off.
They take off.
And you get back at what time?
I get back probably a little bit after 10.
I don't know exactly because I didn't wear a watch at the time, but I got somewhere back a little bit after 10.
And I'm now responsible to take care of the 20 some odd people there.
By yourself?
By myself.
So what happened then?
The team, the rest of our team, Tig, Ty, Jack, Tonto and DB had made it over to the intersection of what we call Gunfighter Road and Consulate Road, which is about 300 yards down from the main entrance into the consulate.
There they did run into a couple of Feb 17 guys that were sitting back, they were sitting up on a back of a Hilux pickup truck with a Dishka, which is a, you know, it's a Russian heavy machine gun, shooting at some guy down in front of the consulate who was shooting back at them.
Tig and them launched some 40 millimeter grenades down on top of those guys, kind of quelled that.
Tonto and DB, they separated into kind of a pincer movement.
Three guys moved down the road.
The other two moved around to set up observation posts in some high area.
And Tig, Jack, and Roan entered through the front gate of the consulate.
It took them maybe another 10 minutes, maybe 10 minutes to get there.
So somewhere around the time I got back, they were probably going through the front gate.
And how long did they stay there?
Were there still forces there, or had they started burning the building already?
Well, they had already started burning the buildings, and there was bad guys all over the place.
Roughly, the best estimate we can determine is there were approximately 40 armed insurgents when those three guys came through the front gate.
And did they engage?
Yes, sir.
They took out quite a few of them.
They don't know exactly.
I mean, you know, because at that point when you have a small unit, the best thing you have is surprise and violence of action.
If you see a bad guy with a gun, you're going to put two to three rounds in him.
My, you know, it's one of my rules is anything we're shooting once is we're shooting at least twice.
Right.
Ammo's cheap and life's not.
Yeah, because if they're on the ground, they can pick up their gun and shoot you in the back.
Right.
So they took care of those guys and they all, I mean, it's surprised.
I think they were so surprised and the violence of action that came through that front gate by those three guys.
Scared the living crap out of them and most of them just disappeared after they started seeing some of their buddies get shot.
Was there an opportunity then to try to find the ambassador and the other people that were involved?
Yeah, the State Department guys were able to make it out of their safe rooms and they all began searching for the ambassador over the next, I think, they didn't leave or get back to the, they didn't get back to the annex until about Midnight, a little bit after midnight.
Your guys didn't come back until about midnight?
Yes.
And at that point, had they found Sean Smith or the ambassador yet?
They found Sean Smith relatively quick and he was deceased.
He had died of smoke inhalation.
They couldn't find the ambassador.
All the guys there, but especially Tig and Tyrone, kept going in and out as far as they could to get in there because they didn't have gas masks or You know, SCBAs, any firefighting equipment that could help them with oxygen or anything.
So they were holding their breath trying to get in as far as they could to find him.
They come out, go back in.
At one point, Tig and Tyrone got separated.
Tyrone later told me in the morning about how Tig had saved his life because he was lost in the room and Tig was able to come in and get him out, saving his life that night.
So then they come back, and what's the plan now at midnight?
Um, well, there was, they got a counter assault there, had to repel a counter assault.
After they did that, then they, uh, were able to, um, we got information that there was another hundred people going to start attacking the consulate again.
So that just, when the decision made was made to X fill out and go back to the annex.
And what time did you do that?
They got back around 1230 ish.
I believe is when they got back somewhere between 1215, 1230, probably in that timeframe.
And, uh, And when they came back, the State Department guys made it back.
On their way back, they got caught up in an ambush.
They were able to make it through.
Our guys came back a different route.
They made it back.
And at that time, we just got ready because we figured that the bad guys were going to come at us next.
And did you go back to the compound, to the consulate?
No, we were unable after that.
We hard-pointed at our facility at the annex.
And the six of us got on top of the rooftops.
The, let's see, one, two, three of the state department guys, um, got on top of the rooftops as well.
The team leader went in to make comms with, uh, DC, I'm guessing, or at least to Tripoli, whatever their procedures would be.
And then one of the guys was pretty much the state department guys had been with the ambassador, had inhaled so much smoke that we just put him, when he got back first, I put him in a room.
Um, didn't need him up on top.
He was combat ineffective at that point for medical reasons.
And then you, you were attacked.
And then we were attacked, uh, three times actually over between 1230 and five 15 in the morning.
Three different attacks.
Three separate attacks.
Yeah.
And, and I would say maybe one long attack culminating with lulls in it, but yeah, Three separate major engagements.
And what was it?
Mortar attack or?
Initially they came at us with probably around 20 some odd guys thinking I think that we were as weak at our place as we were over as the consulate was.
That lasted maybe that first assault that they made on our compound was maybe 15 minutes.
You know we had them in a good crossfire so we kind of we put them down pretty quick.
They came back at us with some IEDs that they were throwing at our wall and our back gate, as well as about 40 some-odd guys.
We repelled that assault.
That one lasted about 20 minutes.
And then we had a pretty long lull until about 5 o'clock in the morning when the third attack happened.
And the third attack was machine guns, RPGs, AK-47s, and 81mm launchers.
Was that a lot more confidence then?
A lot more people?
It was more people as well as more complex kind of an attack.
And is that when there was fatalities took place?
Yeah, that's three.
There was four mortars.
An RPG hit the back wall right in front of me and Ty, because I had moved up there with him.
And Glenn Doherty from our sister team had made it in on a private aircraft that they were able to obtain from Tripoli.
And they had been there maybe five, 10 minutes.
Glenn came up on the rooftop.
The rest of his guys went inside to arrange getting out, what our exfil plan was.
RPG hit the back wall.
They opened up with AK-47s, belt feds.
We started returning fire and a mortar hit our outer wall.
And then three more hit about 15 feet to my right.
And is that the one that was fatal?
Yeah, the first one hit and it killed Ty.
Glenn was moving, it injured me pretty bad.
That first one took my left arm from about six inches up, was hanging off, was almost blown off.
I returned fire, Glenn was moving, the next one landed, and that one killed Glenn.
I took shrapnel from that one as well, and then the third one hit, and the third one is probably the first time I ever really felt any pain, because my adrenaline's going, a little bit of shock, and I'm just I just know I got to stay in the fight.
And that third one, I realized that I better get some cover because if another one comes, I'm probably going to die myself.
Then how long did the fight continue?
You know, that was the fight, the last mortar that landed.
That was what ended it.
Um, why they quit.
All I can guess is a militia.
One of the militias, um, was hired by Glenn's team.
was able to bring them in from the airport.
And when that mortar, that last attack happened at five o'clock in the morning, around 511, they took off.
And when they took off, they headed in the direction where the mortars came from.
So whether they knew where it was at and were going to stop it, or if they just ran in that direction, because the actual assault from gunfire come from the opposite direction.
Thank goodness the mortar stopped because I think that was God helping us out there.
Was that the end of the hostilities now?
That was pretty much the end of hostilities.
And then you find out that the ambassador died in the hospital, right?
Or on the way to the hospital, whatever.
He was dead before he went there because inside the building he couldn't have survived with that smoke.
And he ended up going, they took him to the hospital.
And the guy that took him to a hospital, what I heard from afterwards, was he was a neighbor who knew the ambassador and he came over and when they pulled the ambassador out after all the flames had stopped and the smoke had dissipated, he saw him, grabbed him, threw him in his car and took him to the hospital.
So the belief is that he was dead already but they worked on him in the hospital for some time hoping they could revive him and never did.
Yeah, because we were going to make an exit into the... Glenn's team was actually debating going to the hospital, but the hospital had been overtaken by Ansar al-Sharia, the militia that had been attacking us in that consulate because of all the dead and wounded that we were sending their way.
So you were wounded?
Yes.
Seriously wounded?
Very seriously.
My arm was about blown off.
I got hit and I had about 21 holes in my body.
So where did you get medical care?
Well, Tig was the first guy up on the roof.
Dave, one of the State Department guys, was up there as well.
He got injured.
His arm and left leg were about severed off.
Tig saved his life getting two tourniquets put on him.
Tig came over to where I was at, got a tourniquet on my arm, probably saving my life.
And then he started working on Ty and Glenn, hoping that they were still alive.
I climbed down off the rooftop on my own.
Went around and I had to direct the CIA case officers how to take care of me.
I told them to get my clothes cut off.
I had gotten hit in the neck, in my chest three times, near my femoral artery.
Got all those that were, anything that was squirting, we got those stopped.
And I didn't have any major medical until I got to Tripoli.
So then you all evacuated, what, two planes were sent?
Well, the first plane was the civilian plane that brought Glenn's team in, but it wasn't big enough to carry everybody, so all the non-essential personnel, anybody but the gunfighters got on that plane, and myself and Dave, who were the wounded ones, we got on that one and flew to Tripoli.
About 10.30ish in the morning, a Libyan C-130 landed, and the guys were able to convince
them that they had a large amount of money that they were able to pay those guys to fly
them back to Tripoli.
And so they, so you're taking care of initially then in the hospital in Tripoli?
Yeah, Libyan doctors in a Libyan hospital.
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Welcome back, and we'll go back to our interview with Mark Geist.
Let's go back and review this a little.
I can remember that weekend being on television with Susan Rice.
I was sitting in a CBS studio and she was on and I was going to come on after her.
And she said it was a spontaneous attack.
Yes.
And I said words I can't repeat, and said they don't carry mortars to spontaneous attacks.
Right.
And how come it was September 11th?
Right.
And how is it this place was attacked four, five, six, seven, eight times?
Right.
It's ridiculous to think it was a spontaneous attack.
Yeah.
And just as I'm saying that, John McCain comes on and says basically she's an idiot.
Why would she think it was a spontaneous attack?
And then as the days went by, for a week or two, the President, Susan Rice, Secretary of State, they kept saying it was a spontaneous attack over a video that had raised questions about Mohammed, about his legitimacy or whatever.
They had considered insulting to Mohammed.
But very, very quickly, the intelligence that came back was that it looked like it was a planned attack by an organized group.
Yes.
Yes, it was.
So was it clear that this was, I mean, was there any, on the scene, was there any talk that this was a spontaneous attack about a Mohammed video?
No, it wasn't.
There was, I mean, one is, you know, it can't be, In all my travels around the Middle East, and like I said, I've been in and out of the Middle East 20 some odd years.
I speak Persian-Farsi as a second language.
It was my specialty.
I've never seen a protest at night.
I mean, it goes against all pretense of why you protest.
Of course.
To be visible and to have the media see what you're doing.
And you don't take AK-47s, RPGs, and belt-fed machine guns to a protest.
And you know, it was, I mean, obviously to anybody who had half a brain in any tactics, I mean, you didn't even have to be in the military to understand that it was a complex attack and it had to have pre-planning because where they set up the mortars, how they attacked the consulate.
Now, did they, I don't think the annex, they probably didn't know about us.
Most people, even the neighbors around us thought that we were either English or French.
Um, not Americans.
So we may not have at the annex been their primary target, but they found us because of the attack at the consulate.
And they found you because your guys went there and came back and they probably figured out, Oh my, this is, this is where these guys are coming from.
The state department security team didn't take the route.
We told them to come back in and ended up driving through a ambush and that ambush followed them over.
And then they figured out where the reinforcements were coming from.
Yep.
So the stand down order, how crucial was that to any ability to save the ambassador, if not Smith?
You know, I think it was I think it's very crucial.
I mean, you know, I can't sit there, you know, I'm not going to say that had we went immediately, we would have saved the ambassador because I don't have that foresight.
But I can say this much is that Had Bob allowed the five professionals that he had at the annex to go and get American eyes on that target and understand exactly what it was and he would have better intel to be able to make a better decision on what should be sent.
Right.
And what to request.
And you have five guys who have 200 some odd years experience in the military.
They could have made a difference for sure.
And what kind of requests were being made for outside help?
Help from Tripoli, help from the U.S., help from any place?
The first thing that we requested, Tonto had requested before they left the annex to go over there, is they asked for any air support, specifically asking for a Spectre gunship, and make one available.
That didn't happen.
No, the only thing that ever showed up was what we were told is an unarmed drone at about 12, between 12 and 12.30 at night.
An unarmed drone?
Yes, we were told it was unarmed.
So that was useless?
Pretty much useless and the intel we were gaining from that was pretty much useless as well because we would ask what it's seeing, is anybody moving up on our outer flanks and By the time that request went from us all the way back to whoever, I'm guessing it went through the command center at the State Department, and they got back to us, it was too late because we were already under attack.
From the time of the initial attack at 940 until the time that Roan and Glenn are killed, what time were they killed approximately in the morning?
I'm looking at every video I've seen and when that final mortar attack came, because I've seen some of the video that was from that, from our cameras, and that was at 5.11 in the morning.
So we had about seven hours to get something substantial there.
Yes.
And that could have prevented their death.
Yes, most definitely.
It's inconceivable to me that we couldn't do that.
It's also, I asked you this the other day, and I'll tell you, this has bothered me since the day it happened.
I've handled emergencies, domestic emergencies, a lot of them, and trained some people on how to do it.
And when you have something like this, I mean, we have a plan for hostage situations in New York.
Different kinds, but, or even during the UN, we have plans for hostage situations should a head of state be taken.
The first thing you do before you even think about it is you direct your resources in that direction.
Yes.
And the answer given was, to me, the biggest farce I've ever heard.
The answer given was, we didn't have enough time.
Right.
But how could they possibly have known how much time they had?
So if I'm sitting there in the White House, right, and I'm the president, and they come to me and say— whenever they told him, I don't know, there's a whole big cloud about whether he was sleeping or he was awake or— Hopefully he got told about it right away.
So at that point, he's got to decide, what am I going to send there?
Correct.
And what you say is, you get the closest unit, and then the second closest, and the third, and you send them all there, and then we can figure out what to do with them.
Yes.
Because this could be one hour, in which case you didn't have enough time.
It could be five or six, seven hours, at least for your guys, in which case you had enough time.
Or it could be five days!
Or it could be two years!
How could they possibly make the decision based on, we can't get people there on time?
They don't know how much time they have.
Well, I think, I think personally, I think that was Susan Rice's statement.
And whoever wrote that talking point for her is an idiot and should be, I mean, and then they had to stick with it.
Cause now remember 9.30 at night in Benghazi is 10, 11, 12, 1, 2 is like three or it's, By the time we got out of there, it was, cause they're eight, six hours from the East coast.
I think there's six hours before.
So nine, what was it?
Eight, seven, six, five, four.
It's four o'clock three or four o'clock in the, in the afternoon, middle of the work day or toward the end of the work day.
Everybody's around.
And the other thing that I always ask, you didn't have to wake them up in the middle of the night, right?
Is what was going on in Egypt that morning?
That morning, Egypt is where the true protests were actually happening.
By 10 o'clock in the morning, there was a protest going on in Egypt at the U.S.
Embassy that they were throwing rocks over the walls and they were climbing... And that one had something to do, I believe, with the Mohammed video.
Correct.
That was one of them.
Of course, there had been a number of those protests about the Mohammed video.
Why would—why would the administration, why wouldn't they at least be in a situation where they tried to get the resources there but failed because there wasn't enough time?
Why did they not dispatch any resources at all and kind of almost ignore it?
Well, the only answer is the one that they don't like.
And because so what would happen, and you know, is in an emergency situation when a US embassy in Egypt is under attack, or at least being protested in rocks and getting there.
That's when everything got put on alert.
I mean, we know that the US military had to have been put on alert.
State Department has a group known as FAST Company, Fleet Anti-Terrorism Security Teams, one in Seven hours.
Spain and one in Bahrain that are automatically put on because their whole purpose is to help
rescue, either reinforce, rescue, or take back over consulates and embassies.
And they're on standby.
I mean, I've talked to people who said that they were on a plane that had been sent and
was overhead of Benghazi at 1 o'clock in the morning and got turned around.
Within hours, within seven hours, had they dispatched around 10, 20 minutes after, which
I think would be the prudent thing to do.
And probably if you play it by the book, what emergency management would tell you to do.
Right.
Would have gotten them there from Bahrain, what, about three hours?
Probably, yeah, three hours.
So they'd been there by one in the morning, two in the morning.
Yep.
In which case they could have secured both places.
Yep.
And the reason, I guess, that I believe...
Then you tell me what you think, is that right from the very beginning, including not securing the annex, or not securing the compound, comes from the fact that they wanted to play this as a victory, and they didn't want people to know, number one, that they had unleashed chaos in Libya, screwed it up, because in the middle of an election with Romney, and he would have attacked them for that, yet another failure, because they had failed in Egypt, and put in the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Right?
Right.
So this would be number two.
And then also, probably, they knew the record of not having secured that embassy, or that facility, and they'd look terrible for not giving the guy any additional security there, and in fact, taking security away.
Yep.
100%.
I'm right.
That's exactly what I think.
I think that they, I think when it first happened, And we went, then our guys got, went over.
They thought it would be over.
Then when our guys left the compound and got back to the annex, okay, woo, it's over now.
And it just was that it's, it's people, the problem.
It's, it's one of the things that a leader has to be very careful of, and that's trying to put their hands in and trying to control what's going on the ground instead of listening to your guys and giving them every, because as a leader, they should have give, Everybody, the resources, the guys on the ground, every resource there is.
You're the ones that make the decision to call off or call.
We should have been making those decisions.
Yeah, they should have been put in place as fast as possible.
And as soon as they're in place, you make the decision.
Do you bring them in or has it calmed down?
Are you going to make it worse?
And none of that was made available.
And it would almost seem to me that's part of the manual.
That's part of when you do tabletop exercises and you do drills, of which I've done many, both in the federal government and local government.
Right.
That's the way you're trained.
Exactly.
We should.
I mean, that is how we train.
That is how, you know, I call it my six Ps.
It's prior planning prevents piss-poor performance.
So, Mark, we only have a few minutes left, but now it's several years later and you've been very active.
Tell us what you're doing now.
Um, well, a couple of things is one of the big things that is my passion is still serving.
And I do that in a sense of me and my wife started a nonprofit called shadow warriors project.
It's shadow warriors, project.org because private security contractors do not have, I mean, we have a workman's comp policy, so we raise money to help families of those that get killed and injured as private security contractors, shadow warriors.com.
shadowwarriorsproject.org.
That's how people can, that's how people can help if they, I mean, this has become a very integral part of how we now operate.
Yeah.
I mean, like right now there's two point, when you come down to contractors, there's 2.6 contractors for everyone.
Every military, one military guy in Afghanistan right now.
See, most people don't know that.
Right.
There's been over 5,000 contractors killed and 30,000 injured since 2001 in 80 different countries in the war on terror.
As, I mean, because we're taking those jobs that free up the military to be able to do what they do best.
And these are all, these are all almost exclusively military people.
Most of them are.
I mean, the ones that I've met.
Yes.
I'm going to say eight out of 10, nine out of 10.
Yep.
And usually from the Marines and the special Special operations.
Yes.
Ranges, fields.
Especially in our organization, in the protection side of things, in the security side of things, you know, most of them are required to have four to six years experience of combat experience, not just military.
No, no, no.
I should have said that.
Yes.
Combat experience.
Four to six years of combat experience.
And that's why we were able to do what we did and survive.
And usually from specialized units.
Yeah.
From the elite units.
Yes.
Yes, sir.
So this is something that should be supported, so I urge people to try and do that, and I'd love to spend more time with you, but I wanted people to get the basic facts of this, and then maybe we can have a later interview about the current political situation.
Yeah, let's do that!
But since I have you there, and you're sitting in Colorado, and we're still going through this pandemic thing, tell me what you think should be done in Colorado right now.
Is it being opened up properly, or isn't it?
No, I don't think it is.
And you know, um, two things is one, I don't think we should have ever gotten shut down in the first place.
I mean, you know, in the thirties we had a pandemic of, um, shoot, what was it?
And I lost my mind.
I lost it, but we had a, uh, cholera outbreak that was going through everywhere.
And what did we do?
If you had the disease, if you had it, we're infected, you got quarantined.
Everybody else makes their own decision.
I mean, What frustrates me is we've taken away the ability of each every American to make their own decision.
I mean, if I go to a restaurant and it's crowded and I don't want to be there because of whatever the fear is, then don't go.
Personal decision is something to me that is what I fought for in this country that we get to have.
It's not some mayor or governor that's going to dictate it from their perch that they don't even that they're sitting on and have zero Virtually zero experience in dealing with this.
You know Mark, I think what's even clearer is whether there was a lot of confusion at the beginning about how bad this was going to be.
2 million deaths, 3 million deaths, endless.
Now we have experience with it.
We know the fatality rates.
We know it affects only elderly people, or people over 60, 70, and 97, 98% with an underlying condition.
Yes.
So you take a healthy 25-year-old, or a healthy 19-year-old who should be in college.
I don't know why any of the schools ought to be closed.
All you have to do with the schools is maybe quarantine the teachers that are over a certain age, just to be extra special safe, over 55, let's say.
Make sure you train people how to interreact with your elders, so you're careful, you wear a mask, you wear gloves when you go see grandpa, grandma, or me, because I would be in that category.
Everybody else can work!
And then as soon as the coast is clear, the older people can come out, and they can start working.
So I hope that that's the situation we have in the future, and I'm glad that a lot of other people see it that way.
We should have done that, you know, what, three, four weeks ago at a minimum?
Yeah, oh, absolutely, absolutely.
You know, we've got to listen to the science, but we've got to listen to the economy, too.
And common sense.
And common sense.
Yeah.
Well, thank you very much, Mark, and good luck with the Shadow Warriors project and the other endeavors you're involved in, and we'll keep in touch.
Thank you, Mayor, and thanks for everything you've done for this country as well.
God bless you.
Well, thank you for your service.
I can't say enough about it.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
That was a really very interesting, riveting interview.
Makes you want to watch the movie again, doesn't it?
I've got to ask you, how accurate is the movie?
So if I watch it, what do I, do I get 80%, 90%, 100%?
Probably around 80%.
Yeah.
You know, it's cause in some of the stuff they did it for theatrical reasons, like, uh, you know, cause we were spread out over four rooftops at the annex.
So each time we got attacked, not everybody could engage because you got to cover your six.
So typically there was usually only three to four of us.
Engaging the enemy while the other three, well let's see out of us there would have been six and then seven, eight, nine, ten.
So four of us were engaging, six of us were covering the other areas in case we got attacked from that.
So really it was four guys at any one time shooting and in the movie they show us all because they wanted to show the teamwork and kind of that what goes behind all that.
Any serious misrepresentation that would give you the wrong picture of what happened?
Or just dramatization?
No, not at all.
Just dramatization.
Like, after the second attack on the annex, there was this big bus bomb.
And that didn't happen.
And, you know, we were all kind of busting Michael Bay's chops because it's like, you know, hey, you're known for your explosions.
I mean, we have plenty of them already.
And he said, well, here's the reason I'm doing it.
He says, because from a theatrical standpoint, I'm building up the anticipation of the final result.
It's a good movie.
I mean, whether... And that's why he did that.
It made sense to me.
I mean, it's about as good a movie for that kind of subject as I've seen.
It's a good movie.
So, the last question.
How are you now, physically?
How are you?
Doing good.
I mean, I don't have much feeling in this hand.
I used to be left-handed.
I had to learn to write right-handed.
Get out of here.
You had to learn how to write right-handed.
Yeah.
That's hard.
But like this half of my hand, I don't have any feeling.
This one I have about maybe 10%, 20%.
So it's hard to use.
I mean, I got pretty good dexterity, but it's picking things up.
I don't, especially fine motor skills, I don't have much, but you know, it's life.
And how about the others that were injured?
Are they, I mean, it's amazing that aside from the two tragic losses that you had and the two losses earlier, That it's only four.
Yeah.
I mean, you did great work protecting.
I mean, you could have lost 20, 30 people.
We were, you know, and, and I'm in the process of kind of writing a second book.
It's going to be a little bit more in depth of different things, but it's, I'm calling it, it's, it's, I'd also talked about my faith, but I call it the seventh man is my kind of working title because we had a seventh man on our team, which was God that night.
There was too many things that happened that shouldn't have happened.
I mean, like there was over at the annex, I mean, over at the consulate, there was a guy that was in the counter assault shooting an RPG at the, uh, at Tig and the guys at the ambassador's residence.
Tig was on the roof and this guy shoots one RPG.
It goes over his head, shoots a second one.
It goes over his head.
He shoots the third one.
Tig comes up, shoots him at the same time and about halfway there, And I only got to see this because I saw the drone footage over the consulate.
About halfway there, the RPG takes, I mean, like a 90 degree turn and goes off into the middle of nowhere.
Right.
Because something, I mean, something interfered with that.
Well, I'm going to be very, very interested to read that book and very interested to interview you again, Mark.
And God bless you and your family and everything you do.
You deserve it.
Well, I'll get your address either from... because Bernie Kerik's a good friend of mine.
Oh, I'll give you my... I'll text it to you right away.
Okay, because I'd like to send you... I'll send you a book, an autograph book.
Okay.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mark.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
God bless.
God bless you too.
That was quite, quite an interview and quite a, uh, I mean, I, I could say if they hadn't done it, they'd make a good movie, but it did.
And, uh, and it was a real life and, um, really, really in the long run, something that should have been done better by the, by the administration.
They didn't, they didn't support these guys the way they should have, which is a tragedy and should never happen again.
You know, I kinda, I mean, for me, Hindsight is, as much as I hate that we lost those that we lost, the greater purpose is, in my mind, is had Benghazi not happened, and had they not handled it the way they did, there would have never been an investigation into Benghazi.
Right.
Had we not investigated, had Boehner not investigated it, we wouldn't have found out about Hillary's private email server.
And we would not have had, I think there was, I mean, everything is the domino effect because it's karma.
I could see.
How about the hand of God?
I can see your book.
Well, good luck.
There you go.
Good luck.
That's what it's, that's what it's kind of heading that direction.
We've got a president in office now that is a true believer in God.
Um, I think he, he is, You know, it's phenomenal.
I've gotten to know his boys real well on the campaign trail.
I've been hunting with them a couple times.
And, you know, you couldn't have asked for the right people, any better person to be.
I mean, the president is the right person for the right job at this time.
Amen.
Well, I think that's a good way to end.
And we'll be back with Mark again soon.
And thank you very, very much.
Thank you.
God bless.
And thank you all for listening.
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