All Episodes
Previous Next
May 8, 2020 - Rudy Giuliani
35:07
How Italy is reopening after Coronavirus Shutdown #ForzaItalia | Ep. 35
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
It's our purpose to bring to bear the principle of common sense and rational discussion to the issues of our day.
America was created at a time of great turmoil, tremendous disagreements, anger, hatred.
There was a book written in 1776 that guided much of the discipline of thinking that brought us to the discovery of our freedoms, of our God-given freedoms.
It was Thomas Paine's Common Sense, written in 1776, one of the first American bestsellers in which Thomas Paine explained by rational principles the reason why these small colonies felt the necessity to separate from the powerful Kingdom of England and the King of England.
He explained their inherent desire for liberty, freedom, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and he explained it in ways that were understandable to the people, to all of the people.
A great deal of the reason for America's constant ability to self-improve is because we are able to reason, we're able to talk to each other, we're able to listen to each other, and we're able to analyze.
We are able to apply our God-given common sense.
So let's do it.
Hello, this is Rudy Giuliani and I'm back with Rudy's Common Sense.
And we have a very special treat today.
We have a member of the Italian Parliament, a very significant member of the Italian Parliament, a lawyer, a reporter, a man with a very, very deep background in public affairs and a man who has a great love for the United States also, as most Italians do.
And I think most people in America have a great love for Italy.
And we are sharing a terrible, terrible Pandemic and terrible, terrible experience together.
So I thought it would be useful to find out how it's going in Italy, how it started, what happened, and kind of compare it to what we're doing and see if we can both learn something.
And the gentleman I'm talking about is Andrea Ruggeri, who is a member of parliament.
Also, he's a lawyer.
And he's been, at times, a television reporter, so he'll be quite comfortable, as you can see.
You can see Andrea now, quite comfortable, you know, during this interview.
And I noticed, Andrea, before we start, that bridge is not in Rome that you have behind you.
That bridge behind you, I don't think, connects the two parts of Rome.
It's not over the Tiber, right?
First of all, thank you, Mr. Mayor, for your presentation.
I feel a lot of emotions, so I'm sorry for my American.
It could be not the best one.
But the bridge you can see behind me is the most famous bridge all over the world.
It's the Brooklyn Bridge.
So, you know, your city, for me, is the city.
New York City is the place of my heart.
Thank you for the presentation.
I've been a lawyer, as you told before.
I have turned in TV journalism after a few years.
Now I'm a member elected of the Italian Parliament.
And now I'm seeing from here, from Rome, the bad times we're living together.
So we understand you're pretty much in the same situation that we're in.
You've been in a lockdown in Italy for some time now, right?
Actually, now Italy is yet under lockdown.
Because, you know, we had the first cases of this Chinese virus in late February.
Then the government decided to close all Italy on 8 March.
Now we are ending our lockdown.
We will return free at the 18th of May.
So in the next two weeks.
Well, the greatest mistake we have done here in Italy, unfortunately, has been to announce the closure of a region.
I'm talking about Milan area and surroundings.
That is the most infected one we have.
But allowing many people to escape from Milan and surroundings by airplane, by train, they were directed to the south of Italy.
So the government got scared about it because they got scared that the infection could have come from the north to the south of Italy.
But outbreak has never exploded in the south of Italy.
So now we are suffering a great and dangerous paradox.
The center and south of Italy, they have not any pandemic, but they risk to fail.
So that's a problem we have now.
So let's just so our listeners understand it, viewers understand it.
It's a very, very strange situation.
Almost all of the cases are in northern Italy.
In fact, disproportionate number in Lombardy.
Lombardy, Piedmont, Emilia-Romagna, And Veneto seem to have the vast majority of cases.
For all the persons who doesn't know Italy.
We'll have a map up.
We'll put a map up and we'll show them that it's basically 70-80% of the cases are in the north of Italy, above Florence in essence, and right up to the border.
We can see the map and then in the north of Italy, Milan area and surroundings, we have a problem there.
We have a small problem in Turin, in the Turin area.
We don't have any problem now in the Venice area.
Venice at one time had a large... One time.
At the beginning of this pandemic, it has been a problem, but we have solved it there.
So now the problem is, From Tuscany down to the Sicily and Sardinia.
And we were speaking about Florence and surroundings, Rome and surroundings, Naples and surroundings, Capri, Amalfi Coast, Sicily and Sardinia.
If you add all together, you have a third of the person hospitalized in Lombardy alone.
Lombardy is the Milan area, okay?
So that's the reason, because I don't like this lockdown, because you have one nation, but two different situations, and this government should have differentiated this kind of situation.
Well, did they not?
When they did the order, because now in retrospect, it's quite obvious that it's a very concentrated problem.
Yeah.
And below Florence, Florence and below, it's a very manageable problem.
And you get further south, there's no problem at all.
I mean, in Calabria, there's something like a thousand.
Basilicata, 386.
So now I'm in Rome.
I'm in Rome.
For making an example, Rome, all the district around Rome, we count 0.06% Of people infected.
So nothing.
It's simply manageable.
But that's the reason because I don't like lockdown.
But they were all locked in?
All locked up?
Yeah.
All over the country?
Whole country?
All Italy.
And I guess the other point that Americans should know is the southern part of Italy tends to be poorer than the northern part.
Yeah, right.
So the people that are locked in probably depend on their work every day maybe even more than in the northern part of Italy.
That's the reason because we are facing a social drama, an enormous one.
Because when we speak about Central and South of Italy, we speak about tourism.
Tourism in Italy, it means, I don't know, 14% of our GDP.
13,000 of companies.
14% of your GDP is tourism?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because, you know, if you go in Sorrento, On Amalfi Coast, that is a wonderful place.
You can speak just American.
You don't speak Italian.
Because, you know, they have, as Italian guests, 8%.
And all the rest, 92%, is from US.
So if this incoming summer, people doesn't come here, we get poverty.
So that's the reason because I am very scared about tourism.
It means 3.5 million employees.
We're speaking about boat rentals, car rentals, restaurants, bars, hotels, various services.
So if we consider that this coming summer, all these persons cannot work because they have no customers, because they have the same taxes as before.
They have more costs than before.
You are a microcosm, in a way, of what we face in our much larger country.
Very similar.
Maybe not quite as dramatic, but very similar.
The deaths and the cases are concentrated in a few places, and then there are places with relatively few, not out of the ordinary, but everybody was treated the same.
Now, Are you still... I thought there was a relaxation on Monday.
Would have been May 3rd or 4th, right?
Well, this is quite a fake news.
Some people went back to work.
Yeah, no.
A lot of Italian media, they are speaking about a reopening in Italy, but it's a fake news.
It's a simple fake news.
The only difference is that from yesterday, we have four millions of persons Four million came back to work on May 4th.
Let me ask a tourist question.
Four million came back to work on May 4th.
But Italian workers are 23 million.
So we're talking about 18% of the Italian workers.
So it's not a reopening.
And if you want to buy something in a shop, the shops are closed.
Restaurants are closed.
Bars are closed.
Let me ask a tourist question.
Can I visit the Vatican right now?
You can visit the Vatican.
No, no, no, no.
Even the Vatican is closed now.
OK.
It's open just to your eyes.
I can't visit the Colosseum right now.
It's totally closed.
So that's the reason because I'm afraid.
Because we're talking about a good asset of Italy.
Our tourism is an industry.
There's a lot of employees.
So the results of this lockdown, when you look, all Italy is the same in the same way.
And you don't differentiate.
It's a lot of unemployment, a lot of poverty in the center, in the south of Italy.
So I don't like it.
So that's the lockdown consequences.
That's the reason I'm against the lockdown.
So when will that be lifted for all of Italy so that people can go back to work if they
want to?
Well, I expect it will be the 18th of May.
OK.
And what's the situation?
Mr. Mayor, as you perfectly know better than me, you know, in Italy, but worldwide, there's a lot of people who get money only if they work.
If they don't work, they don't get money.
They get poorer.
So it's a problem for us.
Here where I live in New York City, you see people wearing these more and more as they commute.
They're earbuds from Raycon.
When commuting, you'll see them all over the city.
But they're great to wear right now, from home, on video conference calls, or when you're exercising, or you're watching this video podcast, or if you want to listen to music.
You just put them in, hit the music, and I'm listening to Bocelli's Conte Partero.
You can listen to your favorite music.
Raycon earbuds are really comfortable to wear.
Because they connect by Bluetooth seamlessly, and you're not having to untangle all these headphone wires.
The first time you listen to your favorite music, whether it's opera or something else, you're going to be amazed at how good the sound comes from this little thing.
What Raycon has done is truly amazing.
You get six hours of playing time between charges.
And when you pop them back into the box, it charges efficiently and very, very quickly.
And they're not that expensive.
You're gonna save a lot of money on these.
You buy these online.
Buy Raycon.com slash RIDGID.
That's Raycon.com.
Get them now.
You're going to really enjoy them.
Thank you.
Can you describe for us what the situation is with regard to the virus now?
Do you have new cases?
Is it still spreading?
Are people still dying in large numbers?
Well, our situation in the north of Italy, in the Milan area, has been dramatic for three weeks.
Then now the cases are decreasing.
It's two weeks.
That is, go that way.
In the rest of Italy, we have a manageable situation.
So the tragic mistake we have done is being scared too much.
You have to remain open.
You have to use prudence.
You have to be prudent.
You have to use social distancing, but not close whatever.
We'll put this up also, but since the middle of end of March, there's been a steady decline.
You're right.
To now you're down to pretty much the lowest point you've been at since it began.
So the question I have is very simple.
Why a restaurant owner in Sicily or in Rome could be failed because of a lockdown decreed for a problem that is 500 miles away?
Why?
Can you describe for us, in your own words or your own view of it, why, at least the northern part of Italy, why was it hit so hard?
More than, let's say, some other countries.
Although now some other countries are catching up, like Spain.
But why was Italy hit so hard in that initial period of time?
Well, I think the Italian government has been wrong.
They trusted too much on our urologist, but they said everything and the opposite of everything.
So the government, they got scared too much.
And so it's something like an insurance on our government.
OK, we can close whatever we want, whatever you want, because we are scared.
Well, now, why is the concentration so much in the north?
terror in the people. So a lot of parts of the population in Italy are worried about
this situation. But it's not so bad a situation.
Well now, why is the concentration so much in the north?
Was there a lot of interchange with China in the north and not as much in the central part
in the south?
Well, in my opinion, it's because we're talking about the Milan area and surroundings.
We have a lot of companies who continuously go and come back from China.
So Milan, China, Milan, Germany.
So usually what happens?
They go to China.
They work there.
They come back in Italy.
They go around this area we are talking about, so Lombardy, they go in German, they make business, they come back in Italy.
So that's the reason the coast is concentrated in that zone.
But I repeat, Lombardy is just 10% of Italy.
So, what's the message you send if you lock down all Italy, as Lombardy?
Well, the message you send is that all of Italy is dangerous.
And the fact is, the danger is concentrated in four closely contiguous regions, and mostly Lombardy.
That's the unfortunate part of it.
Now, are you comfortable with the source of the virus, as to where it comes from?
Well, my opinion is clear.
You know, this is the responsibility of China.
So China is totally responsible for this virus outbreak.
This is a Chinese virus.
They have eaten a lot of things.
They have infected all the West part of the world.
And now they have to refund us because our economies now are very weak because of the Chinese virus they have eaten.
Now we have this problem.
First of all, we are speaking about a communist dictator.
Don't forget it.
Because China is not a normal country.
It's not a democracy like the U.S.
or like Italy or like all the rest of the world.
There are people in this country who need to hear this.
Because we have people, believe it or not—not the president, of course.
The president has been very clear, and the secretary of state, very clear this is a Chinese-inspired—it's a Chinese virus.
It comes from China.
And then they spent a month or a month and a half lying to us.
And had we had the information about it—when I say us, I mean you and America—we could have prepared better.
If we had been told the truth.
But the damage is just at the beginning, because we easily comprehend that if our economies are weak now because of that virus, the Chinese virus, we have this problem.
China wants to buy our companies, our communications, our infrastructures.
They want to buy whatever they want, because now we are weak.
They are strong.
So they want to take advantage from this situation, but it's their fault.
So, in my opinion, we have to, for example, Mr. President Trump is right.
We have in Italy, Mr. Perusconi, the former Italian Prime Minister, he's been saying for two years, China is danger number one for all the West of the world.
China is, say that again, please.
China is Yeah.
China is the danger number one.
Danger number one.
Yeah.
Berlusconi has been saying this concept for two years ago.
So the problem is Mr. Merkel, Madam Merkel and Mr. Macron, they are changing their approach on this problem.
And I approve it.
But now we have to, all the rest of the world has to be like a block.
We have to be very strong right now against the danger.
How realistic, Andrea, is that?
I know your view and the view of your party is like that, but sometimes we find that Europe tends to be fairly weak on these issues.
Has the damage that's been done been so great that there's a very strong feeling that China needs to be cut off and taught a lesson?
Well, how is realistic?
Well, in my opinion, if you compare the United States to Europe, it's not the same thing because you have a strong identity.
You have a common foreign policy, but you have common policies about immigration pandemic.
And we don't have nothing about it.
And we are too slow.
But we have to be more aggressive.
We have a great problem on this face of this world.
We have an enemy because we haven't decided this.
They have decided because we have a danger much more dangerous of the old Soviet Republic of Russia, because China today has atomic weapons, a lot of much more money.
And don't remember, don't forget that they can count on a billion and a half of slaves because they are not citizens.
They have no rights.
They have no free media.
They are not free.
They live under surveillance.
So that's a problem.
It's not a solution, China.
China is a problem.
So we have to think about it in this way and be strong all together to make no risk about our freedom.
Will that view prevail over some of the left-wing It seems that way.
I'm just asking you, how realistic is that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
it are we are you able to have that view prevail as the government policy for Italy and France
and Germany and I'm pretty certain it will for the UK.
Honestly, German and France, they are changing their approach. And I approve it. I see it
seems that way. I'm just asking you how realistic is that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really
sick because Macron has understood the danger and even Madame Merkel is complaining.
In Italy, we have a different situation and I don't like it.
I don't like the approach of the Italian media and government towards China.
It's too weak.
They are too ingenious.
And I'm sorry, but sending two face masks is not enough for being forgiven.
OK?
Yeah.
And a lot of them don't work, by the way.
So I don't like when I see something that claps its hands to China.
Thank you for the masks.
Thank you.
Thank you for the masks.
Are you kidding me?
Well, I very much am encouraged by that approach because it's the approach that I know our president and our government is going to take.
Of course, there will be Chinese apologists in America, too.
I don't understand it, but there are people who say, oh, you shouldn't blame it on China.
Obviously, it comes from China.
It isn't the first time they've spread a virus around the world.
It isn't the first time they've lied about it.
This time, for a month and a half.
And they've got to be taught a lesson.
We can't go through this again.
So, I mean, they really need to be cut back dramatically in terms of trade.
And I think the U.S.
will do it.
And I hope that what I hear from Western Europe, at least from Germany and France and England, is quite strong.
Now, tell us a little more about the Italian government.
What is the majority in the Italian government right now?
Well, now the situation is quite complicated, however, because they are socialists.
They want more state, more public money, more redistribution.
And we want the If we vote tomorrow morning, centre-right, so Mr. Berlusconi and the right side will win easily and largely.
But now we don't have any votation available.
So we have to wait.
So now we have to do a good opposition to this government because they are not so solid and we can influence them.
But I repeat, I don't like the actual, the current way to be in relationship with China.
For me, China is dangerous.
It's not an opportunity, it's just a problem to solve.
Together with the right side of the world and me.
I and my party, we don't have any doubt.
The right side to be on is the American one.
Well, that's very encouraging for us to know that we have allies and people who see the world the way we do.
And now, what's the prospect for Italy?
How long will the settling down take and the resumption of somewhat normal Now, unfortunately, I repeat, we are facing a social drama.
We expect a lot of unemployment, a lot of people who get money, you know, now they don't know how can they live here.
So we have even more problems from before the Chinese virus, because We have too high taxes, too much bureaucracy.
We have a justice that is too much low and sometimes is politicized.
For making an example, our prosecutors are not elected as you perfectly do.
And as you perfectly know, we have a lot of prosecutors that are public employees.
So that's a different kind of justice.
We have some good assets, but we have to change our mentality.
We need a mentality most similar to yours.
And we have to reform Italy, make Italy an easy country.
If you want to be an investor, less taxes, less state.
A state that does less things, but better than now.
So we want to go back as mentality at the Italy of the 60s.
So how, obviously what you're expressing is music to my ears.
It's a conservative economic approach, which is the only approach that creates more jobs.
How close to having a government that will effectuate those policies are you?
When is the next election?
What are the prospects?
Well, we have two different ways.
The first one, the main one, is wait for three years and then win the election.
But it's a long, long time.
The second one is that we could have a crisis of this current government in the next two months from now because of the economic crisis.
In that way, it could be because we are a democracy, All the games we can do in the parliament, as you know.
We are not a presidential republic, unfortunately.
So, the second way is that my party, which is the North League, they share the responsibility with a part of the left side and they make a government together.
But it's an involving situation.
We have to expect Two months more.
Two months?
Two months more.
Because maybe this current government could be on crisis in the next two months.
And do you feel comfortable that there could be a change that effectuates policies that would be more sensible, fiscal policies?
Well, you know, if you ask me if I like this way, I prefer, I answer the obvious.
I prefer the election way.
Right.
But if you had to wait three more years, maybe you had to, you have to change your strategy.
So if you have the opportunity, the chance to have a new government instead of this one current, maybe we have to get it.
Well, since we have you in Italy, I'm going to conclude by asking something Americans, Americans, you know, get very differing opinions of how our president is viewed overseas.
The liberal press likes to make it seem as if everybody dislikes him.
And when I go to Europe, I'm often told how people there admire him for being such a good leader.
So how would you describe the feelings that people, let's start with Italy and then Europe, have about Donald Trump?
Well, Donald Trump, for us, is a great idol because he speaks very clearly.
You don't have any doubt after that you have heard him.
I often watch the American TV, Fox Channel, and every night I saw Donald Trump in his wonderful press conferences.
Well, Donald Trump, I like so much because he takes his mentality as businessman and politics.
And that's the right way now.
Now, for me, it's very similar to Silvio Berlusconi.
They mind as an entrepreneur.
So what's wrong?
That's my idea.
That's the way we can do for making better.
And they are really clear.
You know what you buy.
You don't have any doubt.
Right, right.
There's no doubt about it.
He's very outspoken.
He puts his views out there.
Sometimes it offends people.
Yeah, yeah.
But you know what he stands for.
A strong character.
If I have to say something, I say it directly.
Everyone can comprehend what I say.
That's real and modern politics.
Who should we be looking for in the next election?
In Italy.
You want to tell us who the possible candidates are?
Well, I don't know.
It's too far.
Too far in advance?
All right.
Well, we'll keep in touch.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
I hope that there's enough of a recovery so that Italy can have a good summer season and we can get people back to not being afraid to go to Italy.
I'll do my best to convince people that I'm going to try to get to Italy this summer.
That's right.
So I want to say this to the American people.
If you want to come here for vacation, you can do it safely.
Because we don't have any problem in the center and the south of Italy.
And in the next few months, even in the north of Italy.
So don't be afraid and come here if you want.
But for the rest, you know, I hope for the best and I prepare for the worst.
So you have, like us, you've been in the apartment for six weeks.
Your family is in a, your family's in a suburb, right?
I'm separated by my family because I want to go in the apartment for working.
They are afraid to be contagious.
So we are separated for eight weeks.
So you're suffering the same problems that we are.
So we should feel we're going through the same things, Andrea.
And it really has been a pleasure talking to you.
Let me tell you, your English is a lot better than my Italian.
And you were very, very well understood.
And I think a lot of Americans will agree with your point of view.
And I think all Americans would say to Italy that we wish you the best.
I mean, I think every American has very, very good feelings about Italy.
We know you're a good friend and we know you're a good country.
I thank you so much as you couldn't believe it because for me, it's a great honor to speak with you.
And then it's an honor even to speak to American people because I love them.
them. I remember, I will never forget the enormous sacrifice that a lot of young guys
from America has done at the end of the Second World War.
They came here for fighting against Nazis for free us.
It's wonderful for you to remember that, Andrea.
Americans will find that very, very comforting that you remember that some of them didn't have fathers or grandfathers because of that.
Well, when you go near Rome, there's an ancient World War cemetery.
So if you look at the age of these guys, they were so young, they expected their life to be normal.
They gave us this chance instead of her.
I'm great as you couldn't believe it.
And I remember... That's a beautiful sentiment.
Well, thank you.
Thank you very much, Andrea.
We'll be in touch with you and we'll keep checking in to see how Italy is doing.
Thank you so much.
And to see how that works out on May 18th, whether you get the whole thing open.
I wish you luck.
I hope to come to New York City and meet you.
By person, it has been a great pleasure and a great honor.
As soon as one place or the other is open, we'll meet, okay?
Okay, thank you so much.
Thank you, Andrea.
Thank you again.
Well, I think that was a very informative interview about a country going through a very similar situation to what we're going through, particularly the northern part of Italy and New York would have very similar experiences.
And Andrea, I think, expresses the view of many, many Italians.
I know one of the things pretty universal in Italy is a great love of America.
And I think that is mutual here in the United States.
So I really thank Andrea for his very, very good comments.
And we'll take a break and we'll be back.
Thank you.
▲
Export Selection