QAA - Epstein and the Scientists (E362)
Aired: 2026-03-06
Duration: 01:12:27


=== Qanon References Revealed (13:13) ===

[00:00:32]  If you're hearing this, well done.
[00:00:34]  You found a way to connect to the internet.
[00:00:36]  Welcome to the QAA podcast, episode 362, Epstein and the Scientists.
[00:00:43]  As always, we are your host, Jake Rakotansky, Jack LaRoche, Liv Akar, and Travis View.
[00:00:48]  It's long been known that Jeffrey Epstein cultivated a public persona as a wealthy science philanthropist.
[00:00:54]  He did this by spending time around researchers, funding projects, and hosting invitations-only gatherings where big scientific questions were discussed.
[00:01:02]  Jake even referenced this in a story all the way back in 2019, talking about Stephen Hawking visiting Epstein Island.
[00:01:09]  Now, that's episode 28, Jeffrey Epstein and the Real Pizzagate.
[00:01:12]  I'm going to put a link because I've had a lot of people asking me about this one.
[00:01:15]  Well, forgive me for the story.
[00:01:17]  I mean, it's 2019.
[00:01:18]  We've all done a lot of growing since then.
[00:01:20]  Yeah, that was a weird time when I didn't really think too many people would actually listen to the podcast.
[00:01:25]  No, I thought nobody, I still kind of forget that people listen to it and say things that like I'm, you know, family and friends later remind me that I probably should keep private, but you know, it is what it is.
[00:01:35]  Sometimes people ask me about stuff I say in the podcast and I pretend I don't know what they're talking about.
[00:01:41]  You're like, no, you don't have a window to my soul, okay?
[00:01:45]  Doesn't sound like anything to me.
[00:01:47]  That interest in science serves a reputational strategy.
[00:01:50]  Proximity to elite scientists and universities lent Epstein status and credibility.
[00:01:55]  But the recent release of the Epstein files has given us a little bit better picture of the purpose and extent of his involvement in science.
[00:02:03]  So today, Jack and Liv are going to guide us through some of that new evidence regarding his interest in, for example, transgender science and eugenics.
[00:02:12]  But before we get to that, I have to talk about how Pizzagate was referenced in congressional testimony.
[00:02:18]  So both Bill and Hillary Clinton gave a closed-door House oversight deposition in the Epstein investigation.
[00:02:24]  And I want to say that's perfectly legitimate.
[00:02:26]  I think like any comprehensive investigation into Epstein that has the opportunity to question the Clintons ought to do so.
[00:02:33]  You know, Clinton flew on Epstein's jet on trips to Asia, Africa, and Europe, plus one trip from Florida to New York.
[00:02:40]  Kilane Maxwell was involved with the Clinton Global Initiative and even attended Chelsea Clinton's wedding.
[00:02:45]  So in these depositions, the Clintons answered questions about all that quite deftly, I would say.
[00:02:50]  I say these piece, these people are pros, right?
[00:02:53]  They've been in this situation before.
[00:02:55]  What's crazy is like a couple years ago, this would have been my number one TV.
[00:03:00]  I would have been like watching Bill and Hillary Clinton for a couple hours like being grilled about their connections to Epstein.
[00:03:08]  This is must-watch.
[00:03:10]  This is Trader's Finale, you know?
[00:03:12]  I couldn't care less.
[00:03:14]  I haven't seen one shred of clips.
[00:03:17]  That's how disconnected and like downtrodden I am.
[00:03:21]  And just like how beaten into the ground, like all of this stuff beyond conspiracy.
[00:03:26]  It's like there is the heart of the conspiracy world that, of course, is like the center of everything.
[00:03:31]  But then there's all these horrific actions that are taking place like out in the Middle East and all over the world, like by people that like whether they believe in the conspiracy or not, doesn't even, it doesn't even matter.
[00:03:40]  Like it just feels like meaningless to be sitting here asking the Clintons like, it's like, oh, it's so 2016, you know?
[00:03:48]  Yeah, it's hyper-real.
[00:03:49]  Like we're all focused on like the thing that references the thing that references the thing.
[00:03:52]  And like the original thing, it's like, well, I don't know.
[00:03:54]  It's kind of been there.
[00:03:56]  So yes, that's it.
[00:03:57]  It's just weird that I was seeing more people talking about the SNL Tourette's skit that they canned rather than the Clinton testimony.
[00:04:05]  Yeah.
[00:04:06]  I feel like that kind of thing, that's a small outrage.
[00:04:08]  That's comprehensible.
[00:04:09]  That's something I can hold in my mind.
[00:04:12]  You know, the vastness of Epstein, it falls apart when I try to grasp it.
[00:04:17]  Yeah.
[00:04:17]  I think that's part of the point, though, is them just dumping so much information that it's impossible for people to fully comprehend it.
[00:04:25]  I was watching an episode of Voyager the other night where seven of nine got pilled and it was essentially a 9-11 conspiracy episode two years before 9-11.
[00:04:34]  And the big hook at the end was that she had ingested too much information.
[00:04:38]  So she was finding connections where connections didn't exist because there was just too much in her mind.
[00:04:43]  And I feel like with the 3 million plus documents that have been dumped, that's a lot of what's happening to people now.
[00:04:49]  They've gotten too smart.
[00:04:51]  They've read too many Epstein documents.
[00:04:53]  I've only read a handful, but I'm already, I can feel my brain power growing.
[00:04:57]  I mean, yeah.
[00:04:58]  You think about how people in the past would have referred to the age of information.
[00:05:02]  Like you have all this information at your fingertips and it's like, yeah, and people are much stupider.
[00:05:06]  Yeah, we're much so much worse.
[00:05:08]  Yeah, I'm like going to the Epstein like searchable database and being like, Travis, few.
[00:05:16]  But the problem with this congressional testimony, at least in part, was that there's at least one member of Congress that is so pilled that they can't stick to substantial questions.
[00:05:26]  And since Marjorie Taylor Greene has resigned, the title of most pilled Congress member goes to Representative Lauren Boebert of Colorado.
[00:05:33]  Can't believe she's real.
[00:05:35]  Representative Bobert asked Hillary if she reviewed the Epstein files in light of Pizzagate, presumably, I guess, asking whether those files use pizza as a code when referring to child abuse.
[00:05:46]  In past public statements, as in 2017 speeches and interviews, you described Pizzagate as a baseless conspiracy theory, alleging you and others ran a child sex trafficking ring from a Washington Pizzeria basement.
[00:06:03]  Have you reviewed any 2025-2026 Epstein files that were released that you believe reference or relate to those specific 2016 claims regarding the Podesta emails, Comet Ping Pong, Pizza used as code, possibly?
[00:06:19]  I'm sorry, I was asking her about whether she's reviewed emails in the films in the Epstein files.
[00:06:28]  You can characterize it however you want.
[00:06:29]  I just would like to know if she's familiar with any of them.
[00:06:31]  So your question is about whether or not she has reviewed any emails in the Epstein release files about Pizzagate.
[00:06:41]  Correct.
[00:06:42]  Hillary's a boss, actually, in this clip, I got to say.
[00:06:45]  She really does look like she can't believe how dumb the world has gotten.
[00:06:50]  She really is like, they're still on this.
[00:06:52]  They still think that there's like video of me like eating the skin off the child.
[00:06:57]  But this person's in Congress.
[00:06:59]  Like, I remember sitting here eight hours, we were talking about Benghazi, and they were asking me, and look, there's some serious stuff, but they're asking me about pizza and the code.
[00:07:07]  Like, you could see in her face, like, how, like, almost like disassociating this whole experience is.
[00:07:15]  I'm glad I actually didn't watch this testimony.
[00:07:18]  I think this actually would have made me like very, like, just upset and broken.
[00:07:23]  Actually, I'm very curious what she thinks the purpose of this question was.
[00:07:26]  Did she think that like Hillary Clinton was like, oh man, did any of the pizza code words I use make it into the Epstein files?
[00:07:32]  And then you're reading all the Epstein files to make sure to just get ahead of that.
[00:07:37]  I mean, is that what Bobert imagines happened?
[00:07:40]  Yeah, honestly, I think that she's like, I got you.
[00:07:44]  They might not understand how you're relating to the Epstein files, but I understand.
[00:07:48]  Like, I have an intimate insight into your mind.
[00:07:50]  I honestly think Boebert thinks that she's like, yes.
[00:07:53]  And have you reviewed any of the words containing pizza?
[00:07:57]  And that Hillary Clinton rips off a mask and it's like a mantis creature.
[00:08:00]  She's like, ah!
[00:08:02]  like tries to run out of them you know like i i think she thinks that you know she's gonna catch her in some kind of or it's just for the clip It's just for the clip.
[00:08:10]  And she knows that whatever reaction is going to be is going to go viral because, you know, she doesn't care what the answer is.
[00:08:17]  Clinton responded by expressing exasperation that she was even being asked about it.
[00:08:22]  Pizzagate was totally made up.
[00:08:25]  It was an outrageous allegation that ended up hurting a number of people that caused a deranged young man to show up with his assault rifle and shoot up a local pizzeria.
[00:08:38]  I can't believe you're even referencing it.
[00:08:40]  You should be.
[00:08:42]  There are connections to the language.
[00:08:45]  All the QAnon people believe there are.
[00:08:47]  I don't know what people have at it.
[00:08:50]  So I think she's referring to that: the fact that some people have found the references to pizza and, in some cases, like grape soda in the Epstein files, and they think that this is this relates to Pizzagate, but like in context, it's, I don't know, it's not really that bad.
[00:09:05]  Do you guys think Hillary Clinton's listened to this podcast?
[00:09:07]  No, I don't want to think about it.
[00:09:09]  I don't want to think about that.
[00:09:10]  I don't want to think about that.
[00:09:11]  No, I don't think so.
[00:09:13]  Hey, it's like here, it's like all this QAnon stuff is crazy.
[00:09:16]  If you're curious to learn more, there's this pretty funny podcast.
[00:09:19]  It's a little bit crass, but you might, it's a little bit crass, but they do have good information on what these wackos believe.
[00:09:26]  I'll check it out.
[00:09:27]  She looks so fucking done with everything.
[00:09:30]  I mean, you know what?
[00:09:31]  Rachel Maddow listens, so maybe.
[00:09:33]  Can you imagine Hillary Clinton?
[00:09:34]  What if she got to the episode where I did the horror story about Moloch living in her basement?
[00:09:39]  I think Hillary would be able to see the satire in that.
[00:09:41]  And also, I did give her a fair book review on what happened.
[00:09:44]  We can go on, please.
[00:09:47]  What has been less reported on is like lots of stories mention this Pizzagate reference, but what has been less reported on is the fact that Boebert also asked Hillary Clinton about the mythical Frazzle Drip video.
[00:09:58]  So longtime listeners of the show will know that Frazzle Drip in the QAnon universe is a horrifying snuff video that supposedly depicts Hillary Clinton and in some versions of the legend, Human Abedin, torturing and killing a child.
[00:10:11]  Now, in true fashion of Urban Legends, there are many stories of people watching the video and they talk about how traumatized they are, but it doesn't exist.
[00:10:20]  It's made up.
[00:10:21]  After Bobert asked this question, Clinton's lawyers asked whether this question is within the scope of the deposition and then resolve this off the record.
[00:10:29]  So there's a little chaotic near the end of the clip.
[00:10:31]  Are you aware of any files that were on Anthony Weiner's laptop in a folder that was titled Insurance, Life Insurance, with a zip file titled Frazzled Winner's ruling?
[00:10:49]  Is this within the scope?
[00:10:50]  Is this within the scope, Mr. Chairman?
[00:10:52]  Oh, she just, yeah.
[00:10:54]  I mean, honestly, I do think that she is living in her own, like, she's living in hell and she does completely deserve it.
[00:11:00]  Like, she deserves all of this.
[00:11:02]  She deserves so much worse than this.
[00:11:04]  So it's, it is funny, but like, this really is like the dream of like QAnon Fallers.
[00:11:10]  You have Hillary Clinton here under oath in a deposition, and you get to like ask them about Frazzle Drip and Pizzagate.
[00:11:18]  But it just didn't really go as well as like, I think Bobert might have hoped.
[00:11:22]  Yeah, I think she expected Hillary to just be shaking in her boots.
[00:11:25]  It's like, oh, she's a lizard.
[00:11:27]  You're a reptile.
[00:11:28]  She can't lie or something.
[00:11:29]  You know, I was like, well, no, she's been asked.
[00:11:31]  She's been a politician for long enough.
[00:11:33]  Even if she's, she might not be the best politician, particularly.
[00:11:36]  Like, she can handle these sort of things.
[00:11:38]  They're like, look, she blinked sideways.
[00:11:40]  Yeah.
[00:11:41]  Like, there's gas escaping from her neck.
[00:11:43]  Look.
[00:11:43]  I'm amazed that there hasn't been more discussion of this.
[00:11:46]  Just like X hasn't totally blown up with the fact that this was even referenced.
[00:11:51]  Yeah, QAnon's kind of washed now.
[00:11:53]  It's weird.
[00:11:54]  Like, people kind of don't care as much about the OG.
[00:11:57]  Like, it spiritually is everything.
[00:11:58]  But then, like, the actual content itself is like a lot bigger, a lot less big than it used to be.
[00:12:03]  I don't know.
[00:12:03]  I think, yeah, I think QAnon and Pizzagate lie live conspiracist movements.
[00:12:08]  They sort of thrive on being the underdog.
[00:12:11]  Like, when you actually have members of Congress who are pilled and asking at Frazzledrip, it kind of loses its luster a little bit.
[00:12:18]  Maybe they're just holding up for the public execution that'll come in a few weeks.
[00:12:22]  You know what's weird is it almost feels more pretend when it's real than how real it feels when it's pretend.
[00:12:30]  You know what I mean?
[00:12:30]  Like Lauren Boebert up there, you know, you can kind of hear her during the thing.
[00:12:34]  Well, you know, Hillary Clinton, you know, says, well, you know, that's what the QAnon people think.
[00:12:38]  And you hear Lauren Boebert go like, well, I don't know what the QAnon people think.
[00:12:42]  And it's like, imagine you're low and Lauren Bobert and you're saying out loud, I don't know what the QAnon people think.
[00:12:48]  Yeah.
[00:12:49]  You know, that's, it's just like a, it's just like a very funny, yeah, I don't know.
[00:12:55]  There is something, there is something kind of washed about, you know, washed about it.
[00:12:59]  Like if Lauren Boebert was really worth her salt, like, you know, she would say, well, maybe they're right.
[00:13:04]  You know, maybe the QAnon people are right.
[00:13:06]  You know, people should look into whatever.
[00:13:07]  I don't know anything other than like, oh, well, I don't know what they think.
[00:13:11]  Yeah.
[00:13:12]  Do you think that some of it is how embarrassing it is to like be in a professional deposition and hear the word frazzle drip said out loud?
[00:13:21]  Like there has to be some kind of embarrassment you're feeling when you're saying that in that sort of a setting.
[00:13:27]  Yeah, even the energy in the audio, because I was just kind of like looking at my audition file.
[00:13:32]  Like I wasn't even, I was just listening to the audio and you can feel the like energy in the room.
[00:13:37]  Like the moment she says frazzle, it's like the whole world goes, that's too far.
[00:13:42]  You know, you wait a minute.
[00:13:44]  Come on.

=== Lottery Claims Unveiled (02:53) ===

[00:13:45]  For real?
[00:13:46]  Now, I also want to mention there's lots of nonsense being floated about the contents of the Epstein files, which is unsurprising because, you know, this is this is something we've, whenever there is real, substantial elite corruption being discussed and uncovered, it always paired with a lot of conspiratorial nonsense.
[00:14:03]  For example, have you heard this one that Jeffrey Epstein won the lottery and then collected it through a secret trust?
[00:14:10]  Yes, heard that.
[00:14:11]  So yeah, it's actually, this claim has actually been kind of been floating around like kind of like low level for a couple years, but it just exploded.
[00:14:19]  It got popular again with the recent release of the Epstein files.
[00:14:23]  So this claim stems from the fact that in 2008, a legal trust called the Zorro Trust like won a Powerball jackpot from a ticket sold in Altus, Oklahoma, and took about $29.3 million after taxes from an advertised $85 million jackpot.
[00:14:40]  Now, Epstein did have an entity called Zorro Trust tied to his New Mexico properties, and he began serving his Florida sentence on June 30th, 2008, just before that lottery drawing on July 2nd.
[00:14:52]  So this lottery happened to happen right before he started serving his criminal sentence.
[00:14:56]  So that timing plus the shared trust name makes the story look pretty sinister at first glance.
[00:15:01]  You know, even Marjorie Taylor Green got in on the action of this claim.
[00:15:06]  Epstein won the lottery.
[00:15:08]  $80 million went to Zorro Trust for Epstein's Zorro Ranch.
[00:15:13]  Nope, not random at all.
[00:15:15]  Do you think anyone will be held accountable?
[00:15:18]  Question mark, question mark, question mark?
[00:15:21]  She's quote-to-eating an account called Lord Bebo.
[00:15:26]  Very trustworthy.
[00:15:27]  Very trustworthy name, yes.
[00:15:29]  Anybody who's any kind of royalty online, I tend to sort of, you know, think that they're not lying to me.
[00:15:36]  It's not the name of one of your labo-boos.
[00:15:39]  Yeah, Lord Bebo.
[00:15:40]  Now, there are lots of reasons I didn't find this one credible.
[00:15:43]  When I looked into it, I think one big one is that sort of the partial information about the identity of the winner was reported on when the jackpot was won, all the way back in 2008.
[00:15:54]  So the Oklahoma City newspaper, The Oklahoman, did some digging and discovered that the anonymous winner worked in a grocery store across the street from the convenience store where the winning ticket was sold.
[00:16:05]  And apparently she decided to use the same name for her trust that Epstein did, which is, you know, good practice.
[00:16:11]  If you win a lottery and you have the ability to collect it anonymously through a trust, this is, you know, this is considered best practice financially.
[00:16:18]  And so this is from that 2008 report in The Oklahoman.
[00:16:22]  The winner is a woman who worked evenings at United Supermarket in Altus, the store's meat department manager confirmed.
[00:16:28]  Larry Cox declined to provide his former co-worker's name, saying the woman had requested anonymity.
[00:16:34]  But if you had to pick someone in town to win it, she'd be the one I'd pick, Cox said.

=== Jeffrey Epstein's Frozen Obsession (15:55) ===

[00:16:39]  It was just meant to be, I guess, he said.
[00:16:41]  The grocery store at 600 East Broadway is less than a block from the Stripes convenience store that sold the winning ticket.
[00:16:48]  So, yeah, contemporaneous reporting had a co-worker of the winner on record saying that it's a, you know, it was a grocery store employee.
[00:16:57]  So I don't think there's anything to this.
[00:16:59]  Epstein's weird science.
[00:17:02]  In 1980, Robert Clark Graham, the inventor of shatterproof plastic eyeglass lenses, opened a sperm bank in Escondido, California.
[00:17:11]  The repository for germinal choice would close in 1999, but not before building quite a reputation.
[00:17:18]  This exclusive sperm bank opened with the full intention of producing only the brightest, healthiest babies in the world.
[00:17:26]  In fact, it intended to receive sperm donations solely from Nobel laureates.
[00:17:30]  Unsurprisingly, the only Nobel laureate known to have donated to the sperm bank was the ardent eugenicist William Shockley.
[00:17:38]  While the repository for germinal choice ended up accepting donations from non-laureates out of necessity, it was said that they recruited men who were scientists and academics whom they considered, quote, the future Nobel laureates.
[00:17:51]  Rumors abounded that women who received sperm from the bank had to be members of Mensa, which, to no one's surprise, was not actually true.
[00:17:59]  According to Slate, however, women were refused for reasons such as being on lithium, being obese, or having diabetes.
[00:18:07]  It's unknown what happened to the repository's records after it was shut down.
[00:18:11]  It's also unknown how many of the approximately 217 children who were born from these donations fit the eugenicist ideals that Graham had in mind.
[00:18:20]  The legacy of the repository for Germanal choice is questionable, but even stranger now that we know how deeply it inspired Jeffrey Epstein and his goals for the future.
[00:18:32]  While journalists and bakers alike have been scrutinizing Jeffrey Epstein's relationships with politicians and actors, his connection to prominent scientists, including scientific publications, has been largely overlooked.
[00:18:45]  What I'd like to shine some light on is how a dead pedophile with an obsession with immortality and eugenics is connected to the rise of our looks-obsessed and trad wife cultures.
[00:18:55]  In 1993, Epstein purchased Zorro Ranch in New Mexico.
[00:18:59]  In a 2019 article that somehow was not in Weekly World News, titled, Jeffrey Epstein Hoped to Seed Human Race with His DNA, the New York Times detailed some of his long-term life goals he enthusiastically shared with party guests as early as 2001.
[00:19:16]  Mr. Epstein told scientists and businessmen about his ambition to use his New Mexico ranch as a base where women would be inseminated with his sperm and would give birth to his babies.
[00:19:25]  It was not a secret.
[00:19:27]  The idea struck all three as far-fetched and disturbing.
[00:19:30]  There is no indication that it would have been against the law.
[00:19:32]  Once, at a dinner at Mr. Epstein's mansion on Manhattan's Upper East Side, Mr. Lanier said he talked to a scientist who told him that Mr. Epstein's goal was to have 20 women at a time impregnated at his 33,000 square foot Zora ranch in a tiny town outside Santa Fe.
[00:19:46]  Mr. Lanier said the scientist identified herself as working at NASA, but he did not remember her name.
[00:19:52]  Mr. Lanier, the virtual reality creator and author, said he had the impression that Mr. Epstein was using the dinner parties, where some guests were attractive women with impressive academic credentials, to screen candidates to bear Mr. Epstein's children.
[00:20:03]  So he wanted to be like all these all these people they fantasize about being a Morton Joe, basically.
[00:20:09]  Yeah, but like on the bigger scale.
[00:20:12]  Yeah.
[00:20:12]  Have I ever told you guys the story I hung out with, I think I've told the story like a billion times on it.
[00:20:17]  See, if Julian was here, he would be like, no, Jake, you've told this like four times.
[00:20:21]  He has a specific memory for the number of times I've repeated myself on the show.
[00:20:26]  But I hung out with the director of Lawnmower Man once randomly.
[00:20:30]  It was just like a random thing.
[00:20:32]  And he told me that he had like, like after Lawnmower Man came out, all of these like billionaires like were like inviting him out to like party with them and like to his island because they thought he had kind of like cracked the code of like what was or like sort of been able to visualize what was next and like the entertainment.
[00:20:49]  And he was like, the craziest thing, he's like, all these guys are doing is like trying to live forever.
[00:20:54]  He did like a ketamine drip with like Rupert Murdoch or some crazy, like some crazy shit.
[00:21:00]  And basically said that like all of these billionaires basically they've conquered everything else and the final frontier is death.
[00:21:06]  So I guys like Robert Bigelow bought Skinwalker Ranch, like, you know, just trying to figure out like immortality.
[00:21:12]  Isn't Rupert Murdoch the worst person to do a ketamine drip?
[00:21:16]  Yeah, it would be, yeah, I can't remember that, but it was like some horrible person.
[00:21:21]  It was like some horrible like corporate billionaire who was like, you know, doing ketamine to expand his mind.
[00:21:27]  Just go deep in the K-hole with Rupert Murdoch and see if you emerge with your mortality intact.
[00:21:34]  From what I could piece together based on the latest files, Epstein's interests in eugenics began with simple transhumanism.
[00:21:41]  He told many individuals that he planned to have his head and penis crynogenically frozen with hopes of at least one of those heads being capable of being revived as medical science advanced.
[00:21:52]  Two most important body parts, obviously.
[00:21:55]  Can't go without that.
[00:21:57]  So the one thing that I was questioning with this is that they just said he was getting his penis cryogenically frozen, not the testicles.
[00:22:05]  So just the dick.
[00:22:07]  Yeah.
[00:22:10]  Which I think is kind of missing the point of like trying to see your own human race.
[00:22:15]  But he can priest and sperm.
[00:22:16]  We know how to do that one.
[00:22:17]  That one's not our end.
[00:22:19]  That's really funny.
[00:22:20]  He was like signing the papers and he was like, yes, and the penis should, yes, for a period no shorter than one billion years.
[00:22:26]  They're like, and what about the and the testes?
[00:22:30]  And he was like, no, just dump those in the garbage can.
[00:22:32]  He was like, no, they were like, that'll be, it'll be an extra, it's an extra fee.
[00:22:36]  And he's like, hmm.
[00:22:37]  He's like, well, could you attach potentially attach the penis to different testes in the future?
[00:22:42]  And they were like, oh, yeah, no, that should be doable.
[00:22:44]  And he was like, we'll forego.
[00:22:46]  Like when you're at Enterprise and you're like, eh, you know what?
[00:22:49]  I'm not going to do the extra, the extra insurance.
[00:22:52]  He just like for, he just like didn't check the testes box.
[00:22:55]  Imagine being like, yeah, the scientist like hundreds of years in the future trying experiment after experiment, trying to figure out how to perfectly recreate Epstein's lab-growing testicles.
[00:23:08]  He's like, he was just one day after the two-for-one deal, so he just didn't want to take it.
[00:23:13]  Oh my God.
[00:23:15]  At the very least, he hoped that his superior genetic material would be able to help the world.
[00:23:20]  Records show that he had also frozen his sperm, likely due to ongoing concerns regarding his chronic low testosterone levels.
[00:23:28]  He consulted often with a longevity-obsessed former CBS news contributor who only recently resigned, Peter Attia, about how to improve this condition, as well as just about all other aspects of his ailing health.
[00:23:42]  One of the weirder aspects of Epstein's health kick, which has caused a good deal of conjecture, was his obsession with beef jerky.
[00:23:49]  Over 360 emails are in the files that reference jerky in strange ways, such as this email from August 17th, 2012.
[00:23:57]  Jeff, old saying, dog ate my homework.
[00:24:01]  Well, my dog ate the beef jerky.
[00:24:11]  Oh.
[00:24:14]  Oh, no.
[00:24:16]  Okay.
[00:24:17]  All right.
[00:24:17]  I was looking for the beef jerky as I knew it was in my suitcase and then thought maybe I left it at the beach only to find the small plastic bag near my dog's bed.
[00:24:26]  Hence, no beef jerky.
[00:24:27]  Beef jerky without space, by the way.
[00:24:29]  Makes it much funnier.
[00:24:31]  Yeah, nope jerky.
[00:24:32]  I'll email Francis to make us some more as I need six to eight ounces to send to the lab and I'll forward Francis the info to send to the lab directly.
[00:24:42]  I'll try you later today.
[00:24:43]  Stephen Hansen, human eater.
[00:24:49]  Stephen, Stephen, my favorite part to eat is the thighs, Hansen.
[00:24:55]  So emails like this raised a lot of eyebrows.
[00:24:58]  And with Epstein employing a chef, the aforementioned Francis, from a trendy Hell's Kitchen carnivore restaurant called Cannibal, it was only natural that people began assuming the jerky in question was made of human flesh, particularly human thighs, as Jake mentioned.
[00:25:14]  Frankly, the emails make more sense as a health craze that lines up with the rise of carnivore diets, with Epstein looking to improve his health through this dietary change.
[00:25:23]  The jerky obsession only lasted a year before his dietary preferences changed to other things, and the cannibal chef was let go.
[00:25:31]  Of course, that didn't mean that Epstein was comfortable with carbohydrates returning to his diet.
[00:25:36]  Luckily for him, Attia confirmed in an email that, quote, pussy is indeed low carb.
[00:25:41]  Oh, awesome.
[00:25:42]  Jesus, man.
[00:25:43]  How do you do that?
[00:25:44]  Yeah, you know, it's important information.
[00:25:46]  Yeah.
[00:25:47]  They do talk like fucking 20-year-old Frat Bros.
[00:25:50]  They're so fucking like.
[00:25:51]  My brother has this like theory that like whatever age you get rich at, like you freeze.
[00:25:57]  Your like maturity basically just like freezes.
[00:26:00]  So that's why you have all these like kind of like crazy like child star stories and all this stuff, except from a man Macaulay, but a king.
[00:26:06]  Anyways, I hope he's listening.
[00:26:10]  So Epstein's intense interest in longevity and genetics led to his funding of the World Transhumanist Association, now obnoxiously known as Humanity Plus through his Jeffrey Epstein Foundation from 2001 to 2017.
[00:26:26]  The bulk of this funding went directly to its founder, Ben Goertzel, creator of the Borg Queen-esque hyper-realistic robot Sophia, who somehow holds Saudi Arabian citizenship.
[00:26:36]  Oh, yeah.
[00:26:37]  The sentences that you've said, Jack, during this segment are wild.
[00:26:41]  There's so many new sentences.
[00:26:43]  There's so many crazy sentences here.
[00:26:45]  Like, even the first sentence you said was crazy.
[00:26:48]  It gets crazier somehow.
[00:26:51]  I don't know how I survived going into these emails for as long as I did.
[00:26:55]  Goertzel primarily put the funding he got from Epstein to use for AGI, artificial general intelligence development.
[00:27:02]  So, yes, as said before, Epstein is at least partially responsible for our current AI nightmare.
[00:27:08]  Epstein's deep connections with and influence on the scientific community are perhaps best shown through his long-standing relationship with Harvard.
[00:27:16]  Between 1998 and 2008, Harvard received $9.8 million in gifts from Epstein, primarily for use in research and faculty activities.
[00:27:26]  2003 was his largest donation year when he gave a $6.5 million gift to establish the Program for Evolutionary Dynamics, led by Professor Martin Nowak, which is nicely turned into an acronym, PED.
[00:27:42]  Coincidentally, after Epstein's suicide, $5 million was left in Martin's trust.
[00:27:48]  To put into perspective how close Martin Nowak's relationship with Epstein and his network was, take the following email to Jelaine Maxwell.
[00:27:57]  Dear Jelaine, many thanks again for your amazing hospitality.
[00:28:01]  I am so very sorry I caused you so much worry and that I spoilt this day.
[00:28:05]  I am so happy that I did not kill anybody.
[00:28:08]  My perspective of life has changed somehow.
[00:28:10]  Lots of love.
[00:28:11]  Martin.
[00:28:12]  What the hell?
[00:28:13]  That was my reaction reading it.
[00:28:14]  He was like, wait, it's like, Jesus Christ.
[00:28:17]  Yeah, I don't.
[00:28:18]  Yeah, boy.
[00:28:19]  Wish we had some more details on this.
[00:28:21]  These emails are fucking insane.
[00:28:23]  We're going to be poring over these for like the next like half century of just people being like, hey, Jeff, like, did the woman live?
[00:28:30]  If not, okay.
[00:28:31]  Talk soon.
[00:28:34]  So many emails are basically just that, but they have about 10 spelling errors within one sentence somehow.
[00:28:41]  They're like, there's still a couple bones floating around in the acid.
[00:28:45]  Want me to, like, want me to dispose?
[00:28:48]  Or good to say for now.
[00:28:49]  And Jeff's like, don't care.
[00:28:52]  Have you seen New Jurassic Park?
[00:28:58]  So the Program for Evolutionary Dynamics did an AMA on Reddit nine years ago for Darwin Day.
[00:29:04]  It's astonishing to look back and see the names of so many people so closely associated with Epstein replying to questions.
[00:29:11]  The information contained within the AMA is not the most incriminating, but it does line up well with some of the interests that Epstein had shown in the past.
[00:29:20]  For instance, there's a question from a deleted user.
[00:29:23]  Is it possible for any non-hominid earth species to eventually advance to a level of ability and cooperative skill similar to modern humans?
[00:29:30]  How would two advanced species interact on one planet if they were at a similar level of technological advancement, intelligence, or cooperative skill as each other?
[00:29:38]  Then the response from evolution researchers on Harvard University says, in the past, we, humans, have prevented that.
[00:29:45]  Sadly, we have eliminated competing hominid species.
[00:29:48]  In the future, we might build biobots that are cooperative and highly intelligent.
[00:29:53]  Which doesn't answer the question at all.
[00:29:56]  Sadly, we've exterminated them, but we could build a race of slave robots in the future.
[00:30:03]  That's probably the same.
[00:30:04]  That's probably similar.
[00:30:06]  Sophia has entered the chat.
[00:30:08]  So the Epstein-funded program for evolutionary dynamics was shut down in 2021 in light of information coming out regarding who founded the fucking thing.
[00:30:18]  Nowak was suspended from supervising undergraduate research, but still maintained his position at Harvard.
[00:30:24]  That's good.
[00:30:24]  No interaction with under-22s.
[00:30:26]  For two years, because in 2023, his suspension was lifted.
[00:30:30]  Oh, sure.
[00:30:31]  Okay, never mind.
[00:30:31]  It'll be fine.
[00:30:33]  The connection with Harvard, however, ran even deeper.
[00:30:37]  It is uncertain when Jeffrey Epstein first came into contact with another prominent Harvard professor, George Church.
[00:30:44]  Some reports state it happened as early as 2001, while others align more with a 2011-2012 timeline.
[00:30:51]  Personally, at this time, I would split the difference based upon this email to Epstein from Howard Gardner, the Harvard Graduate School of Education professor of cognition and education.
[00:31:03]  Hi, Jeffrey.
[00:31:03]  I am very glad that I had a chance to see you last Thursday.
[00:31:06]  I ran into George Church as I left and was able to take his cab to the airport.
[00:31:11]  Good timing.
[00:31:11]  I'm happy to respond to your simple requests for a reading list and advice about offsprings.
[00:31:16]  I'm taking some notes and we'll write to you soon.
[00:31:18]  Meanwhile, take a deep breath, take one day at a time, and you'll get through the coming period fine.
[00:31:23]  With all good wishes, Howard Gardner.
[00:31:26]  So the coming period that's being referenced there is Jeffrey Epstein being in jail in Florida.
[00:31:31]  The reading list did indeed come after.
[00:31:35]  Ah, yes, the coming period of your imprisonment.
[00:31:37]  Yeah, for solicitation of child prostitution.
[00:31:41]  Like, I have no idea what the advice about offsprings is here.
[00:31:44]  Yeah.
[00:31:45]  So, my God, yeah, hey, don't worry.
[00:31:48]  Just beat up the first guy you see, and I'll take care of all of your weird genetic things that you're asking about.
[00:31:55]  Advice about offsprings.
[00:31:57]  He's like, Jeffrey Epstein is like, I got like three kids that I need to kill.
[00:32:06]  Like, you know, like, best way, best practices.
[00:32:10]  So, Church appears in the emails in 2012, around the same time that his book, Regenesis, How Synthetic Biology Will Reinvent Nature and Ourselves, was published.
[00:32:21]  And he began pushing for de-extinction in his public appearances.
[00:32:25]  De-extinction has been making a lot of headlines lately, thanks to Colossal Biosciences, one of the many companies George Church founded.

=== De-Extinction Debates (06:19) ===

[00:32:34]  Think of the brief uproar about transgenic mice, cute critters with curly red fur that far-right news outlets claimed were transsexual.
[00:32:43]  I don't know if you had to answer questions about those, Liv, but I sure had to.
[00:32:47]  Also, like, it's pretty easy to make a mouse transsexual.
[00:32:50]  Like, we didn't really need we could do that literally in the 1860s.
[00:32:54]  Like, they were, it's really, it's not like a new development.
[00:32:58]  Or consider the photo of that frequent writer of incest, massive age gap relationships, and breast milk fetish content, George R. R. Martin, holding a purported dire wolf pup to celebrate its de-extinction.
[00:33:11]  That's my goat.
[00:33:12]  By the way, George R. R. Martin is a board member at Colossal, in spite of his complete lack of environmental or scientific credentials.
[00:33:20]  I love it.
[00:33:21]  You have to understand that he wrote a very good book series that is an analogy for global warming.
[00:33:26]  I love that people on boards are just like fans, and so they're like, can we get them on the board so we can like, I don't know, have bagels or something with them?
[00:33:33]  That would be so cool.
[00:33:35]  That also is why the de-extinction, the de-extincted dire wolves look the way they do, because they're just all massive Game of Thrones fans.
[00:33:43]  Actual dire wolves had red fur and were a completely different species to gray wolves.
[00:33:50]  But anyway, if those two news items don't ring a bell, then perhaps you've been following their recent announcements regarding bringing back the giant Moa in New Zealand or the dodo bird Maurusius.
[00:34:00]  Colossal Biosciences is not the only company dedicated to this notion of de-extinction, but they undeniably have the best PR, in part thanks to George R.R. Martin.
[00:34:10]  The idea that we have brought and can bring extinct species back to life is an exciting one.
[00:34:15]  It's much easier to grab headlines with that than to explain how the genetic material of an extinct species is being injected into an embryo to create a new hybrid creature.
[00:34:25]  A gray wolf with some dire wolf in it doesn't have quite the same ring to it, especially when you consider that gray wolves and dire wolves were barely related to begin with.
[00:34:34]  Yeah, something else I read is that like the half-life of DNA is like 500 something years, meaning that like it degrades by half in just 500 some odd years.
[00:34:44]  So this fantasy that species thousands of years ago can't possibly be revived is not conceivably true because it's hampered by just chemical realities.
[00:34:54]  Yes.
[00:34:54]  That's disappointing.
[00:34:55]  There are people who disagree with that to a degree.
[00:34:59]  Mary Schweitzer in particular has some interesting findings that are still being developed.
[00:35:05]  But on the surface right now, you are 100% correct.
[00:35:09]  So other companies have arguably done more for technologically assisted conservation than Colossal Biosciences.
[00:35:15]  Revive and Restore succeeded not only in cloning a black-footed ferret with implanted genetic material from a now deceased black-footed ferret, but as of 2025, that clone ferret has had three successful litters, thus increasing the biodiversity of this critically endangered species.
[00:35:32]  So, thanks to this, we now have eight genetically distinct ferrets out there that are founding the new species.
[00:35:38]  Have any of you guys ever owned a ferret or had a friend who had a ferret?
[00:35:42]  I have had friends and I love them.
[00:35:44]  Yeah, they're really they can slide under doors, which is crazy.
[00:35:48]  Ferrets can get so flat, they also only poop in corners, which is very interesting.
[00:35:54]  If only dogs were like that.
[00:35:56]  Yeah, Teddy escaped yesterday.
[00:35:57]  It was his first escape in four years.
[00:36:00]  He got out to the front.
[00:36:01]  We caught him, though.
[00:36:02]  Thought we were going to have to have a manhunt for Teddy there.
[00:36:05]  I know.
[00:36:06]  He was like, I've turned 15 and it's time to go free.
[00:36:10]  Sail Away starts playing as.
[00:36:12]  Yeah.
[00:36:13]  So, George Church seems less interested in conservation than he is in spectacle and eugenics.
[00:36:20]  In an interview with Der Spiegel shortly after the release of Regenesis, right around the time he was beginning to meet with Epstein in person, he detailed his interest in human cloning.
[00:36:30]  So, this is a snippet from an interview.
[00:36:33]  Mr. Church, you predict that it will soon be possible to clone Neanderthals.
[00:36:37]  What do you mean by soon?
[00:36:39]  Will you witness the birth of a Neanderthal baby in your lifetime?
[00:36:43]  I think so.
[00:36:44]  But boy, there are a lot of parts to that.
[00:36:47]  The reason I would consider it a possibility is that a bunch of technologies are developing faster than ever before.
[00:36:54]  In particular, reading and writing DNA is now about a million times faster than seven or eight years ago.
[00:37:00]  Another technology that the de-extinction of a Neanderthal would require is human cloning.
[00:37:06]  We can clone all kinds of mammals, so it's very likely that we could clone a human.
[00:37:11]  Why shouldn't we be able to do so?
[00:37:13]  Perhaps because it is banned?
[00:37:15]  That may be true in Germany, but it's not banned all over the world.
[00:37:20]  And laws can change, by the way.
[00:37:23]  Jesus.
[00:37:27]  Like, oh, we'll just do outside that jurisdiction.
[00:37:29]  Don't worry.
[00:37:30]  We've thought about that.
[00:37:31]  Don't worry.
[00:37:31]  Goes on.
[00:37:32]  Setting aside all ethical doubts, do you believe it is technically possible to reproduce the Neanderthal?
[00:37:38]  The first thing you have to do is to sequence the Neanderthal genome, and that has actually been done.
[00:37:44]  The next step would be to chop this genome up into, say, 10,000 chunks, and then synthesize these.
[00:37:51]  Finally, you would introduce these chunks into a human stem cell.
[00:37:55]  If we do that often enough, then we would generate a stem cell line that would get closer and closer to the corresponding sequence of the Neanderthal.
[00:38:04]  We developed the semi-automated procedure required to do that in my lab.
[00:38:08]  Finally, we assemble all the chunks in a human stem cell, which would enable you to finally create a Neanderthal clone.
[00:38:15]  And the surrogates would be human, right?
[00:38:18]  In Regenesis, you write that an extremely adventurous female human could serve as the surrogate mother.
[00:38:24]  Uh, pin, great movie idea.
[00:38:27]  Woman is kidnapped, brought to a lab, and like forced to give birth to like a Neanderthal clone.
[00:38:34]  Okay, and then, of course, at the end, I already have the ending.
[00:38:37]  We can figure out the middle.
[00:38:39]  I know I said I wouldn't banter so much, but I'm sorry, guys.
[00:38:42]  Okay, the ending will be that the baby, like, comes out and it's super advanced and grows really fast, like the alien and Prometheus, and slaughters all the scientists at the end, except for the mother, because it's his mother and it loves her.
[00:38:53]  Great movie.

=== Designer Babies Controversy (15:59) ===

[00:38:54]  Okay.
[00:38:54]  I'm seated.
[00:38:55]  Okay.
[00:38:56]  Just had to get that on there so I don't forget.
[00:38:58]  Church.
[00:38:59]  Yes.
[00:39:00]  However, the prerequisite would, of course, be that human cloning is acceptable in society.
[00:39:06]  Thank you, Forrest Whitaker.
[00:39:08]  For that interview.
[00:39:11]  So I had to have this in here because that quote, extremely adventurous female human is just so disturbing on so many levels.
[00:39:21]  But this human cloning subject was something that fascinated Jeffrey Epstein to no end.
[00:39:27]  In a November 18th, 2011 email to George Church, Jeffrey Epstein wrote, Sorry you can't make it.
[00:39:33]  Did the cloning issue give you pause?
[00:39:35]  George Church replied the exact same day.
[00:39:38]  Yes, I'm working towards this goal fairly rapidly, but trying to do so in a way that minimizes risk to the field.
[00:39:45]  James Wilson, who happened to be my physician in the 1990s, set back the field of gene therapy by a decade by rushing.
[00:39:52]  I've included a link.
[00:39:54]  He didn't say that, but he includes the link.
[00:39:56]  My lab is good at conceiving of radically new technologies as well as improving throughput and quality by factors of 10.
[00:40:02]  Given a couple of years and decent funding, this would become much more reasonable.
[00:40:06]  I'm too busy doing it well to get distracted by trying to do it badly.
[00:40:10]  George.
[00:40:11]  I'm sorry, Jake, but he didn't say doing it well.
[00:40:14]  What did he say?
[00:40:15]  There's a great typo there.
[00:40:17]  I'm too busy.
[00:40:18]  Oh.
[00:40:21]  I'm too busy dong it well.
[00:40:25]  Dong it well.
[00:40:26]  Here's the guy.
[00:40:26]  He's like, I'm doing, he's like, I'm too busy doing it correctly.
[00:40:30]  But instead of right doing, I've written dong.
[00:40:32]  It's very, very ironic.
[00:40:34]  Yeah, that typo is just kind of amazing there.
[00:40:38]  So the link that was included is a Scientific American link.
[00:40:42]  And that link was from a September 2009 article, which is notable because on September 23rd, 2009, Martin Nowak, who we mentioned earlier, wrote in an email to Epstein.
[00:40:54]  I am in the newly formed board of advisors of Scientific American.
[00:40:58]  It seems almost everyone there is a friend of yours.
[00:41:02]  Great.
[00:41:02]  Yeah.
[00:41:03]  This is an interesting little rabbit hole to go down, because in addition to ties with Scientific American and with nature, Epstein and Maxwell sat on the board of a science magazine called Seed that ran from 2001 to 2009.
[00:41:17]  In August 2018, Jeffrey Epstein took a pitch from biohacker and Bitcoin enthusiast Brian Bishop about a project to alter sperm to produce quote-unquote designer babies.
[00:41:31]  It wasn't the first time that Brian had reached out to Epstein.
[00:41:34]  They had been corresponding for several years at this point, first about his Bitcoin exchange, Ledger X, before the talk turned to transhumanistic concerns.
[00:41:43]  As an aside, according to Anthony Rogaldo's interview with Bishop, one of the early projects that Bishop funded was David Ishi's project to create a glowing puppy by injecting jellyfish DNA into mastiff sperm.
[00:41:56]  As of 2019, the six pregnancies that this resulted in had not yet yielded the desired glow-in-the-dark dog, and the FDA had begun to look into the ethics behind these experiments.
[00:42:08]  Epstein himself on Zarro Ranch was working on attempting to breed a championship dog line, although that did not seem to go the way he wanted to, as several frustrated email exchanges show.
[00:42:19]  What initially led me down this rabbit hole of eugenics, gene editing, and human cloning was finding the name of one of my past professors in the Epstein files.
[00:42:29]  Jack Horner was a paleontologist of some renown back when I was attending Montana State University and working for the Urban Coyote Research Project.
[00:42:38]  He had a wild reputation in the paleontological community, part admiration for his discoveries regarding dinosaurs' nesting habits, how wildly their appearance changes as they age, and being part of the soft tissue discoveries that Mary Schweitzer made.
[00:42:53]  He was also a very controversial figure for some more bizarre assumptions, such as T-Rexes primarily being scavengers, and the fact that he married a 19-year-old student of his when he was 65 years old.
[00:43:07]  Jesus Christ.
[00:43:08]  Outside of the paleontology world, he was best known as an advisor on the Jurassic Park films and books and a frequent TED Talk giver.
[00:43:16]  It was several months after Horner's marriage in 2012 that he began to converse with Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:43:22]  The emails quickly resulted in an invitation to Zorro Ranch, where Jack and one of his students went fossil hunting with Epstein and Maxwell, and apparently had quite a good time with the girls as well.
[00:43:32]  I guess I'm all the pedophiles in the emails.
[00:43:34]  Why not?
[00:43:37]  September 1st, 2012.
[00:43:39]  Dear Jeffrey, first off, many thanks for the invitation to your ranch.
[00:43:44]  I had a great time, especially spending time with you and the girls, and seeing your Cretaceous sediments and the old railroad.
[00:43:51]  I don't get many chances to spend time with non-paleontologists or see places and things like that these days.
[00:43:57]  The interesting aspect of the fossil hunting expedition was that it was the culmination of Epstein's attempts to learn the geological topography of his ranch.
[00:44:05]  While this could have been born out of natural curiosity, it has raised a lot of eyebrows, given the recent investigations that have begun to see whether or not there are indeed human remains buried on the 7,622-acre property.
[00:44:19]  Epstein's scientific interests were driven by eugenics and misogyny.
[00:44:23]  It's easy to see that through his belief that blue-eyed people are more intelligent than all others, a belief he held so strongly that he compiled a so-called quote-unquote smart list of 70-some famous individuals he was in contact with.
[00:44:37]  So the list was compiled to discover the percentage of who had blue eyes.
[00:44:43]  That's crazy.
[00:44:44]  It could also be seen through his repeated assertions to Chomsky and others about how disparities in intelligence are related to race and how they should edit the genes of the lesser races to increase their intelligence.
[00:44:55]  It's so insane that Chomsky was just like, cool, man.
[00:44:58]  See you next Friday.
[00:44:59]  Or with his obsessions with creating a quote-unquote female Viagra to prove that their quote-unquote horny virus hypothesis with former Stanford professor Nathan Wolf, or any of the myriad of other examples that exist within these files.
[00:45:14]  Horny virus hypothesis.
[00:45:16]  Yeah.
[00:45:17]  There is a series of emails between him and Nathan Wolfe talking about a horny virus that could get college students to fuck more.
[00:45:26]  Oh man.
[00:45:27]  Oh my God.
[00:45:27]  Because they're not fucking enough, I guess.
[00:45:30]  Yo, these guys are crazy.
[00:45:34]  He was also trying to genetically develop a pig that did not have cloven hooves, so it would be kosher.
[00:45:41]  Oh, what happened to this guy?
[00:45:44]  What was Jeffrey Epstein like?
[00:45:46]  Somebody's got to do the bio.
[00:45:48]  What was he like as a kid?
[00:45:49]  What happened to him?
[00:45:50]  This is a sick, this is a sick guy.
[00:45:52]  That's a very, very hot take, Jake.
[00:45:54]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:45:55]  The more I hear about this Jeffrey Epstein guy, the less I like him.
[00:45:58]  Beginning to think Jeffrey Epstein wasn't a good guy.
[00:46:00]  He's a real sick-twisted guy.
[00:46:03]  So whether his interest in human cloning was born out of a desire for sex slaves or to clone himself to achieve immortality will likely never be known.
[00:46:12]  Nevertheless, his influence on modern culture is worryingly clear.
[00:46:15]  Echoes of his conversations about physical fitness, diet, and musings as to why women deign to live after childbearing age can be seen throughout modern Maha discourse and even looks at maxing spaces.
[00:46:28]  Ironic and sincere, online and off.
[00:46:30]  We need a dramatic shift in how we discuss topics like disability, gender, and race before Epstein's visions for the future fully come to pass.
[00:46:38]  Oh man.
[00:46:39]  Uplifting episode.
[00:46:40]  Depressing shit.
[00:46:41]  Oh my God.
[00:46:43]  The last people in the world that you want associated with a character like Epstein.
[00:46:48]  I mean, it's just really weird to see how much of the stuff that he's discussing is now just out there in the world and general conversations.
[00:46:57]  You know, even when it comes to the designer baby stuff, you know, that's still things that we're discussing now.
[00:47:03]  You know, can we turn off the genes that cause autism?
[00:47:05]  It's really disturbing the influence that he had over publications like Scientific American that you think are just perfectly fine.
[00:47:13]  Then you have to start second-guessing everything.
[00:47:16]  Epstein and trans scientists.
[00:47:19]  Well, folks, transgender people are in the news again.
[00:47:23]  They can't stay away.
[00:47:26]  But I'm sure it's a big surprise for any of our listeners who don't have any access to civilization.
[00:47:31]  Following the Epstein file's release, it appears that many on the right have convinced themselves that Jeffrey Epstein was part of a grand cabal of evil pedophilic doctors trying to cut off your boy's penis and turn your beautiful daughters into gross hairy men.
[00:47:43]  Far-right internet user Solianath, for instance, seems to have taken this from the file's release, receiving 4,000 likes on a post from February 1st that read thus.
[00:47:51]  The entire trans rights movement was a domino effect co-authored by Epstein.
[00:47:55]  You wear a dress and buy hormones made in Israel because a pedophile wanted you to.
[00:48:01]  You know, this is like, consent, are you sure there's someone you didn't ask?
[00:48:04]  It's like, well, Jeffrey Epstein has to approve of this one.
[00:48:07]  It's not between you and your doctor.
[00:48:09]  So in this segment, I'll be talking about some of the actual sources of these conspiracy theories in the files, so we can ponder the validity of these conspiracy theories.
[00:48:17]  One of the more important components of the files related to these theories comes from Epstein's relationship with Robert Trivers, a controversial Yale evolutionary biologist.
[00:48:25]  One reason for Trivers' controversy concerns his public defense of Epstein in 2015, when he told Reuters that, quote, by the time they're 14 or 15, they're like grown women were 60 years ago.
[00:48:34]  So I don't see the axe as so heinous.
[00:48:36]  So this is like an Epstein take one.
[00:48:38]  This is like.
[00:48:39]  He didn't need the file release.
[00:48:41]  You know.
[00:48:42]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:48:43]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:48:44]  So is Trivers just a libertarian?
[00:48:46]  Like, this is just a typical libertarian talking point here.
[00:48:48]  Yeah, no, I'm, you know, he's a pie-biologist, so.
[00:48:51]  Yeah.
[00:48:52]  In a 2015 email to Noam Chomsky, another example of a high-profile academic in this sort of circle, Epstein described himself as a major funder of Trivers' research.
[00:49:00]  Trivers' relationship with Epstein dates back to at least 2009, after Epstein's guilty conviction for solicitation of prostitution with a minor.
[00:49:07]  This relationship, like others of its kind between the sex criminal and various academics, was ostensibly intellectual in nature.
[00:49:14]  Trivers and Epstein would converse about various social and scientific topics that they were interested in, one of which was, unfortunately, transgender people.
[00:49:22]  A topic that was clearly out of Triv's wheelhouse, but that he was nevertheless quite confident about.
[00:49:26]  In what was perhaps the grossest of these messages, Trivers emailed Epstein this on December 17th of 2018.
[00:49:33]  It is very simple.
[00:49:34]  I will compare male to female with female to male.
[00:49:36]  With greater molecular control over development, we are increasingly capable of producing novel phenotypes.
[00:49:42]  More feminine men by blocking testosterone receptors or castration and at the same time increasing estrogen production.
[00:49:49]  The one blocks male features, the second encourages female features.
[00:49:52]  More masculine women, heavy testosterone dosage, incredible external effects, heavily bearded men.
[00:49:57]  You would never guess they had a female bone in their body, which is not how bones work.
[00:50:01]  But.
[00:50:05]  First kind, male to female, is four times more frequent than female to male.
[00:50:09]  The first is attractive.
[00:50:10]  He is a woman with a cock, so that if your fantasy is to suck a manstick, otherwise you are completely heterosexual.
[00:50:16]  It would be much nicer if the rest of the organism is female.
[00:50:19]  Then you get the best of both worlds.
[00:50:21]  So many transsexual women are very attractive and easily make money, which in turn, they assert, promotes their prostitution, since they have to pay hefty fees for injections every week.
[00:50:30]  But they are sexually happy.
[00:50:31]  Once you have reached manhood, even castration does not prevent the sensation of organism, which I assume is orgasm.
[00:50:38]  Oh my god, and they're dumb.
[00:50:41]  Contrast the poor female to male versions.
[00:50:44]  They are unhappy and lonely.
[00:50:45]  They are men with mum pums, the worst of both worlds.
[00:50:48]  The fuck?
[00:50:49]  What?
[00:50:50]  Mum pums?
[00:50:51]  I think, like, poom pum, I think was supposed to be.
[00:50:53]  The fuck?
[00:50:54]  Men with mum pums?
[00:50:56]  Pum pum is like a vagina, I think.
[00:50:58]  Oh, okay.
[00:51:00]  I don't know.
[00:51:00]  It's not worth thinking about, I don't think.
[00:51:02]  I can't even believe that this guy thought about this enough to sit down and then write these sentences out.
[00:51:08]  Like, this is, like, they are, you know what?
[00:51:10]  Pogonia is right.
[00:51:12]  These are aliens.
[00:51:13]  Like, you know what?
[00:51:14]  They're right.
[00:51:15]  They're right.
[00:51:15]  These are, they might as well be from a fucking different planet.
[00:51:18]  Yeah, and you have to, you have to, like, know that it's, he's thinking, like, I'm one of the smartest people in the world talking to another smartest person in the world.
[00:51:25]  And he's like, and I'm writing an email to the second, maybe, maybe a guy who's smarter even than I am, Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:51:33]  Writing an email with one hand, I think.
[00:51:35]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:51:36]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:51:39]  But to continue, if you like smelly masculine men, you want that hard cock that comes with the show.
[00:51:44]  You do not want one of nature's more complex and variable structures, the pum-pum.
[00:51:49]  That is an acquired taste and not with a man.
[00:51:51]  The pum-pum?
[00:51:52]  There are hundreds of female trans videos and websites.
[00:51:55]  I have never seen a male one.
[00:51:57]  Possibly the worst bit.
[00:51:58]  By the way, we are now pushing the intervention earlier.
[00:52:01]  So you notice your three-year-old son has trans tendencies, so now you intervene with hormones.
[00:52:05]  I would be frightened to do that, but who knows?
[00:52:08]  But who knows?
[00:52:11]  Who knows?
[00:52:12]  There are obviously a lot of absurd problems with this email that I think help demonstrate that people such as Trivers are not particularly smart and don't really know what they're talking about.
[00:52:20]  It's a good kind of instructional thing about, I think, trans healthcare in general.
[00:52:24]  The first being that, quote, blocking testosterone receptors and increasing estrogen production is not a new thing in the slightest.
[00:52:31]  Endocrinologists have been doing experiments related to the production of quote-unquote novel phenotypes as far back as 1850, with a German scientist surgically removing the gonads of a group of roosters and observing an extreme process of feminization, both biologically as well as behaviorally.
[00:52:45]  Beyond this, synthetic hormones became available as early as the 1930s, meaning it's almost been 100 years since this process was possible.
[00:52:52]  And you can learn even more about that on Liv's Curse Media series science and transition if you're interested in a deeper dive into that history.
[00:53:00]  Little plug.
[00:53:00]  All right, bye.
[00:53:01]  Don't worry.
[00:53:01]  No, I was plugging it in the script here.
[00:53:03]  Don't worry.
[00:53:05]  All right.
[00:53:05]  I'm just doing a little plug.
[00:53:07]  Transgender women are also not, quote, easily able to make money and experience substantially higher rates of poverty, unemployment, and a much lower than average income than the general population.
[00:53:17]  When Trivers talks about how trans women's beauty, quote, promotes their prostitution, he's obviously, of course, mistaken.
[00:53:23]  While trans women are substantially more likely to pick up sex work than the general population, it actually has much more to do with the point I just made about income inequality.
[00:53:30]  This combined with the fetishization of trans women, which is, you know, as evidenced by the entire email, makes what is called survival sex work very common.
[00:53:38]  Also, just you don't need to pay hefty fees for weekly estrogen injections.
[00:53:42]  It's a pretty easy hormone to synthesize.
[00:53:44]  Like, again, they've been doing it for hundreds of years.
[00:53:46]  A vial often costs, you know, $50 to $100.
[00:53:49]  It takes like a month and a half or so to use all of it.
[00:53:52]  Yeah, it's almost like that's part of the fetishization.
[00:53:54]  It's like, it's like, oh, and they have to pay so much.
[00:53:57]  It's so expensive.
[00:53:58]  It's like it is a part of it, it really does also connect with the transhumanism stuff.
[00:54:02]  It's like they're fetishizing it for like, this is a new way of being that requires all this science and technology, and also it's hot.
[00:54:09]  And isn't it also true that the rates of trans men isn't that much lower compared to the rates of trans women?
[00:54:15]  Yeah, it has changed over time.
[00:54:17]  I honestly, it sounds like Trivers is using like 1960s data because now it has changed and there is a statistically increased prominence of trans men, of female to male.
[00:54:28]  So even in 2018, it certainly was more female to male than male to female.
[00:54:33]  And I don't think at any point it was ever four times more of either one.
[00:54:36]  And I thought that like historical records were also a lot worse for female to male because they just weren't studied as much.
[00:54:42]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:54:43]  And that's one of the problems too, is it's like, well, there's less access for them.
[00:54:46]  And it's like, well, if it's a thing that requires access to medical care and they just choose not to give you medical care, then there's going to be less of them, you know, technically.

=== Ting's Switch to Trans Surgeries (10:16) ===

[00:54:54]  And finally, in what was potentially the most damaging part of this email, for the sake of how it was taken up by the right after the release of the Epstein files, Trivers claims that they, presumably meaning trans doctors, are pushing for a situation where if your three-year-old son has trans tendencies, whatever that means, you're able to give them access to hormones.
[00:55:11]  And for a biologist, I'm surprised at how incredibly unaware Trivers is of like basic endocrinology.
[00:55:16]  Inducing any sort of puberty for a three-year-old would be absurd.
[00:55:19]  And it's pretty unclear how someone at that age would exhibit enough gendered behaviors for any sort of trans tendency to be speculated upon.
[00:55:26]  As far as the question for medical transition for minors, Trivers was likely reacted to an increase in pediatric gender clinics during the 2010s in countries like America.
[00:55:34]  And I would imagine that even those listening who have a very positive view about allowing minors access to trans medical care would underestimate just how few under-18s were receiving care when Trivers was writing this in 2018.
[00:55:44]  With according to Reuters, there being about 3,000 under 18s in the United States on it at the time.
[00:55:50]  As for the care itself, it's generally quite conservative.
[00:55:52]  Only approximately 40% of patients referred to these clinics are given access to medical care after extensive psychological review.
[00:55:59]  Regardless of how long a minor has been certain of their trans identity, anyone under 16 is only given access to puberty blockers, which delay the onset of puberty to ensure that a minor is absolutely sure about going forward with transitioning.
[00:56:09]  It's only those 16 and above that are given access to hormones to facilitate the onset of their desired puberty.
[00:56:15]  But have you considered how much better it would be if you were just inducing puberty in a three-year-old?
[00:56:19]  Yeah, no, I mean, it is like the combination of trans fetishization and also pedophilia is like, okay, all right, we're.
[00:56:27]  Your three-year-old is like starting fights with you and like slamming the door.
[00:56:31]  Fuck you, mom!
[00:56:32]  Your three-year-old is more pimples than human.
[00:56:37]  These errors, as well as the very gross fetishization on display, should show you how disconnected Trivers is from actual trans healthcare.
[00:56:43]  There are certainly those, to be clear, who have had important roles in shaping trans healthcare, who've done so to the detriment of trans people.
[00:56:49]  Again, for more, please listen to my series, Science and Transition, on CurseMedia.net.
[00:56:53]  But Trivers is certainly not a part of this group.
[00:56:56]  Despite this, their connection has been a large source of speculation concerning Epstein funding the evil transgender craze, in part due to an email sent by Epstein to Trivers on the 16th of March of 2019, where he said thus.
[00:57:08]  I thought you might want to focus on transgender biology.
[00:57:11]  People would be interested, and I would fund.
[00:57:13]  Epstein did, in fact, fund some research.
[00:57:16]  The year after Epstein's death, Trivers co-authored a paper on what he called transgendered belief, which is a very backhanded way of describing trans people wanting to change their gender and sex, being connected to one's digit ratio.
[00:57:28]  That is the difference between their index and ring finger.
[00:57:31]  That's the same way that they would say whether or not you were a werewolf back in like the 1800s was measuring the digit ratio.
[00:57:40]  Well there you go.
[00:57:41]  Makes you think.
[00:57:41]  Are you a werewolf or are you trans?
[00:57:44]  Trivers will help you find out.
[00:57:46]  The belief stems from exposure to hormones in the womb, with a more supposedly feminized digit ratio, your index finger being longer than your ring finger on your left hand, being more common in trans women than cis men.
[00:57:56]  Which like I guess I'm a cisgender man then because I looked at it.
[00:58:00]  I think, yeah, or I think they're the same.
[00:58:02]  I don't know.
[00:58:03]  It's a very silly general tendency that isn't always right.
[00:58:06]  My index is definitely longer.
[00:58:08]  Look, this is my index right here.
[00:58:10]  It's the longest one.
[00:58:11]  This is my left hand.
[00:58:12]  I got some thinking to do, I think.
[00:58:14]  Well, there you go, Jake.
[00:58:15]  Makes you think.
[00:58:16]  Makes me think.
[00:58:16]  I got it.
[00:58:18]  I gotta go and stew.
[00:58:19]  Well, again, we talk about this sort of stuff a lot in Science and Transition.
[00:58:22]  They've been trying to find some sort of empirical determinative transsexuality for a long time.
[00:58:26]  And the best they have found still has been very, very tentative maybes.
[00:58:30]  So maybe we'll, maybe we should wrap it up, guys, unless we get something a bit more definitive than this.
[00:58:35]  But the other, possibly much more shocking, trans science-related Epstein connection released a prominent surgeon, Jess Ting, a longtime Epstein associate who in the late 2010s would switch from general plastic surgery to trans surgery, very specifically vaginoplasty or the surgical construction of a vagina.
[00:58:51]  But before he made this switch, Ting would be part of Epstein's cadre of medical specialists who would often do private, legally dubious medical work on him as well as some of his victims and associates.
[00:59:00]  One photo released by the Epstein Files shows Ting closing a head wound of a woman with 35 stitches as she lay on Epstein's dining room table.
[00:59:07]  This medical procedure was for an undergraduate who had fallen off an ATV.
[00:59:11]  Yet Ting would not merely perform medically necessary surgeries to Epstein, his associates and victims, and Epstein recruited him to perform cosmetic surgery for some of the girls Epstein had been sexually abusing.
[00:59:21]  Oh my god.
[00:59:22]  Ting's name appears at least 466 times in the Epstein file documents, and the two had a working relationship for nearly a decade.
[00:59:28]  In one email, Ting was invited to Epstein Island.
[00:59:31]  To quote this email, he was, quote, brought to Jeffrey's Island to play with his toys.
[00:59:35]  Yeah.
[00:59:36]  Ting accepted the offer, mentioning he's bringing his friend and her three children.
[00:59:40]  In another email, Epstein asks Ting to perform a quote boob job on a girl, and also mentions that Ting had already performed two in the past.
[00:59:47]  Epstein would also fund Ting's cancer research, giving him $50,000 in 2012 for this purpose.
[00:59:53]  I think possibly one of the more troubling emails, and certainly one of the most bakable ones between the two, is one authored by Ting from April 24th of 2018, where he mentions his recent switch to trans-related surgeries.
[01:00:04]  He says this: Hi, Jeffrey.
[01:00:05]  I wanted to share with you some changes in my career that you may find of interest.
[01:00:10]  I have switched specialties from plastic surgery to gender affirmation surgery, aka transgender surgery.
[01:00:15]  This is a documentary about the creation of the new center at Mount Sinai, transformation.film.com.
[01:00:22]  Check it out.
[01:00:23]  It's the most amazing thing I've ever been involved with.
[01:00:25]  Warmest, Jess Ting.
[01:00:27]  Just the guy you want doing your surgery.
[01:00:29]  Yeah, I know.
[01:00:30]  Could you imagine?
[01:00:31]  Like, you get your pussy from this guy and you're like, you did what?
[01:00:35]  I don't want to know what he's doing as he's constructing it.
[01:00:39]  Oh my gosh.
[01:00:40]  Pin another great horror movie.
[01:00:43]  You get your pussy from like a horrific Nazi doctor and it's cursed actually.
[01:00:49]  And like it's kind of yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:00:51]  It could be like a like a body horror movie.
[01:00:54]  Attack of the cursed Nazi pussy.
[01:00:56]  Yeah, yeah, like cursed Nazi pussy.
[01:00:59]  This sounds like there's a French guy out there right now writing this screen for you.
[01:01:04]  And if not, somebody listening to this show, maybe Julian is like, cursed a Nazi pussy.
[01:01:09]  Ah, yes, I'll find my manuscript.
[01:01:11]  But you have to have a swastika like shaved into the pubic hair.
[01:01:16]  It's a very subversive.
[01:01:18]  It's camp, actually.
[01:01:20]  Trauma would do it.
[01:01:21]  Yeah, yeah, trauma.
[01:01:22]  Yeah, it's a trauma film.
[01:01:23]  Tingo would become quite influential in the field of aginoplasty, inventing the peritoneal pull-through method.
[01:01:29]  This connection is, of course, quite bad.
[01:01:31]  A lot worse than the Triver stuff.
[01:01:33]  Yet it's important to understand that just because someone is in trans healthcare does not make them an extension of the trans community.
[01:01:39]  I feel like there's a running joke among some trans women I hear about like there being like an 80% chance your trans doctor is like a chase, is like a guy who's a chaser.
[01:01:46]  And you like, you have to at least hope like, well, that's enough motivation that he's actually going to do a good job.
[01:01:51]  Like that's the awkward position you're put in.
[01:01:53]  I really appreciate you highlighting that point because it's a point that I don't think nearly gets highlighted enough, especially, you know, among younger generations right now.
[01:02:02]  That's got to be like so terrifying to like be in a doctor's office.
[01:02:05]  Like it's already like terrifying to be in a doctor's office, but slowly coming to the realization of like what their motives are.
[01:02:11]  Like I can't even, I'll never be able to imagine like how scary that is.
[01:02:15]  There's long been an antagonistic relationship between many healthcare professionals and clinicians and their trans patients, just as there's been an antagonistic relationship between the medical community and other marginalized groups, such as people of color and gay people.
[01:02:27]  Trans healthcare in the Western world was constructed by a cadre of clinicians who put extensive gatekeeping methods surrounding it out of fear they might get sued by patients who would later regret the changes.
[01:02:36]  Solidifying requirements such as a real-life test, one would have to live as their preferred gender for years without any access to hormones to prove they really wanted it.
[01:02:44]  Which again, like think about you trying to live as the opposite sex for a year in 1975 with your, you know, it's it's not a very good situation to put someone through.
[01:02:53]  Wasn't it also that you had to like reasonably pass as well?
[01:02:56]  Yes, a lot of the times they would, there weren't that many spots in a lot of these clinics, so like they would pick the more kind of like conventionally for trans woman feminine because they wanted like no visible queerness.
[01:03:07]  So if you had further likelihood, this is also why they generally chose, or one of the reasons they generally preferred like heterosexual trans women, trans women who are only into men, because it's like, well, you'll just like blend in as like an infertile cisgender woman who marries a man and then no one has really notices.
[01:03:20]  So anybody who wasn't a Twink was just right out.
[01:03:22]  Yeah, no, Twinks only, right on the front door.
[01:03:26]  And if you aged out of it, if Twink death hit you a bit too soon, you are just fucked.
[01:03:30]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:03:31]  It was only after decades of struggle against this medical establishment that trans adults began to be able to actually decide for themselves if they wanted to transition.
[01:03:39]  This is to say, you know, another trans doctor being evil doesn't really change this relationship at all.
[01:03:43]  People on the right seem to be very obsessed with painting the trans community through the doctors that treat us.
[01:03:48]  And even in this case, the scientists who write weird papers about us.
[01:03:51]  But the right has talked very little about the only trans woman actually in the Epstein files themselves.
[01:03:55]  Ava Cordero is a Latina trans woman who was 16 years old in 1999 when Epstein sexually abused her.
[01:04:01]  He lured her into his mansion on the promise of giving her a modeling job.
[01:04:05]  In 2007, Cordero would file a lawsuit against Epstein, saying that he forced her to engage in, quote, bizarre and unnatural sex acts.
[01:04:11]  She was one of the first survivors to come forward publicly.
[01:04:14]  The media's reaction to the suit was to paint it as a bogus, false accusation, and quoted Epstein's lawyer who claimed that she was actually just after his money.
[01:04:21]  She was also smeared with transphobic insults.
[01:04:23]  Journalists Gregorian and Karin for the New York Post called her a man and referred to the situation as a gender-bend shocker.
[01:04:30]  I posted just like the New York Post article here.
[01:04:33]  You know, it's she, and then in brackets, there's the HE has a story, bogus sex suit.
[01:04:38]  Also, the kinky sex suit gal is a man.
[01:04:41]  Yeah.
[01:04:41]  There's also, yeah, there's always been a weird relationship between Epstein and the New York Post.
[01:04:46]  I think this is also representative of like absolute the most gutter tabloid smearing.
[01:04:52]  Yeah.
[01:04:52]  Who's the who's the post founded by?
[01:04:54]  Wasn't it one of like the founders?
[01:04:56]  Alexander Hamilton founded the New York Times.
[01:04:57]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:05:01]  So funny.
[01:05:03]  Then Mamma Miranda's in the wings wanting to write a song about this.
[01:05:07]  Yeah, this looks like something out of weekly world news with the way it's laid out.

=== Collective Hang (07:16) ===

[01:05:11]  Yeah.
[01:05:11]  But yeah, it seems like a lot of the times, a lot of these conspiracies around trans healthcare, it's like, oh, you know, John Money or other early clinicians, like they made transness a thing.
[01:05:20]  When in reality, like they were responding to an increased demand from people already.
[01:05:24]  So there's like a really bad understanding of like, if you find an evil trans scientist or trans doctor who's providing care, they aren't like constructing the desire for people to change their sex.
[01:05:34]  Like that desire is always going to be there.
[01:05:36]  But Epstein did not groom this girl into becoming transgender or whatever the right has to say about Epstein's relationship with trans people.
[01:05:42]  Instead, he took advantage of the same transphobic discourses that right-wing conspiracy theorists peddle in order to abuse her and discredit her claims.
[01:05:50]  If there's an alliance here, it's between certain clinicians and doctors, those like Epstein and the far-right conspiracy theories, who push an ideology that ensures trans women are powerless and discredited.
[01:06:00]  It's a very heavy note to end it on, but if there is a place to put that heavy note, it's probably here.
[01:06:06]  Yeah.
[01:06:06]  It reminds me a little bit of the kids that Dahmer was preying on and how because they were young, because they were gay, you know, the police literally brought one of them back to Dahmer.
[01:06:19]  Like it was just a lover's dispute because, again, they were dealing with minority.
[01:06:23]  That kid was also Latino, if I remember correctly.
[01:06:26]  So it reminds me a little bit of that, where you're just taking one of the most vulnerable people you can.
[01:06:31]  It's like, oh, people aren't going to believe you.
[01:06:33]  Yeah.
[01:06:34]  It's very common for a lot of marginalized identities.
[01:06:36]  People know, predators know who the police won't care about.
[01:06:39]  Fucked up, fucked up ass world we live in.
[01:06:42]  Well, I mean, shit.
[01:06:45]  Well, fuck.
[01:06:46]  Well, God, it's bad and there's gonna be more.
[01:06:50]  It's gonna be more.
[01:06:51]  It's bad.
[01:06:52]  Hey, sorry we're all here, but you know what, folks?
[01:06:55]  We are in this together.
[01:06:57]  And it's, I feel like, so grateful, you know, to, you know, have people that can like help us understand.
[01:07:04]  Like, you know, it's just like great to have.
[01:07:07]  I don't know.
[01:07:07]  It's just like great to like understand more about like this real, like, sick kind of piece of our society.
[01:07:14]  And I don't know.
[01:07:16]  I just, I'm sorry I know about it, but like I'm appreciative to be like educated about it, if that makes any sense.
[01:07:23]  Yes, and if you want to hear more, ChrisMedia.net, listen to the series.
[01:07:27]  Thanks for listening to another episode of the QAA podcast.
[01:07:31]  You can go to patreon.com slash QAA to get a second premium episode for every main one that we release.
[01:07:37]  And we've also got a website that's qa podcast.com.
[01:07:40]  Jack, where can people find more of your work?
[01:07:42]  You can find me on Blue Sky or on Twitter at Coyote Speaks and Coyote Jacques, respectively.
[01:07:49]  And Liv, are you still streaming?
[01:07:51]  Are you still newslettering?
[01:07:52]  Yeah, twitch.tv says LaVegar every Sundays in my newsletter, Levegar.com.
[01:07:57]  Folks, make it your Sunday hang.
[01:07:59]  Why not?
[01:08:00]  Until next week, man, may the deep dish bless you and keep you.
[01:08:05]  Hang in there, folks!
[01:08:13]  We have auto-keyed content based on your preferences.
[01:08:18]  This video is for everybody who has just now recently learned that our entire political and Hollyweird, our whole like powerful social structure is run by pedophile.
[01:08:29]  And you're shocked and you're horrified and you're disgusted.
[01:08:32]  Like, how is this even possible?
[01:08:35]  How did this even happen?
[01:08:36]  Unsettled and gross and you're just so confused at how there can be this kind of evil in the world.
[01:08:43]  First of all, I want to say that I'm really sorry.
[01:08:45]  I am.
[01:08:46]  I remember we went through this.
[01:08:47]  I went through this in 2019, 2020 when it was still kind of like conspiratorial.
[01:08:52]  And we tried to come out and we tried to talk about it, but the social media apps would take it down.
[01:08:56]  It was, it was a whole thing and it was a whole mess.
[01:08:59]  But I'm sorry because I remember how it felt when I first learned this.
[01:09:04]  So much deeper and darker than just child trafficking, which is deep and dark on its own, okay?
[01:09:09]  But it goes so much darker.
[01:09:11]  I felt confused and broken and stupid.
[01:09:14]  Like, how did I not see this?
[01:09:15]  How did I buy into this?
[01:09:17]  Back then, okay, the whole movement was, and I know, I know what people are saying, but back then, the whole movement, the MAGA movement, was about saving these kids, was about saving the children.
[01:09:29]  At least that's what it was for us.
[01:09:30]  That was what was most important to us.
[01:09:33]  Obviously, that message has gotten lost and things have changed quite a bit.
[01:09:37]  And that movement has moved on to, we're just not going to talk about it today.
[01:09:42]  A bunch of us though that are still here, like this is still kind of the core of what we wanted.
[01:09:46]  We wanted accountability for all of this.
[01:09:48]  I see a lot of you sharing the snuff film that came with some of that stuff initially with John Podesta.
[01:09:55]  And I'm sorry about that.
[01:09:55]  I really am because it's horrific.
[01:09:57]  I remember the first time I watched that and there were some others too that we had seen and or I had seen and my kids didn't leave our house for a month.
[01:10:06]  We went nowhere.
[01:10:07]  Reality is that I'm glad you're here now and I hold no ill will that you didn't know then what you know now.
[01:10:12]  And I see a lot of comments from people who are like, well, welcome to the club.
[01:10:17]  So glad you could join us.
[01:10:19]  I feel like I deserve an apology for being called a conspiracy.
[01:10:22]  Really?
[01:10:22]  I'm not going to do that.
[01:10:25]  I'm not going to do that because I feel like I'm just glad that you're here.
[01:10:28]  I'm glad that you see it now.
[01:10:30]  Whatever it took for you to see it and believe it now.
[01:10:34]  I'm glad.
[01:10:34]  I'm glad that I'm not just out here by myself or with my little fringe group of people.
[01:10:39]  Those who are leaving those comments, who are coming down on these people, who are just learning about this now, okay?
[01:10:45]  Chill the fuck out.
[01:10:46]  Chill the fuck out.
[01:10:47]  The whole goal was to get everybody to see this, okay?
[01:10:51]  And then to come together as a collective and renew our faith or figure something else out because we weren't going to get there with just our little fringe groups.
[01:11:01]  We weren't going to get there with just you, Boomer Sally.
[01:11:04]  The majority of us that are doing this for the right reasons, who don't care about being first, really wanted to be wrong.
[01:11:10]  We wanted to be wrong.
[01:11:11]  I've never wanted to be wrong more about something in my entire life.
[01:11:15]  I never, I didn't sleep well for a long time.
[01:11:19]  2024 election, to a lot of us, was our last chance.
[01:11:22]  That was our hail melee that we were going to do this.
[01:11:24]  We were going to get the right people in there and they were going to expose this whole thing and they were going to start holding people accountable.
[01:11:29]  They were going to fix this.
[01:11:31]  And we're here and they have it.
[01:11:33]  They are not even talking about it.
[01:11:35]  I don't know.
[01:11:36]  They're dismissing it.
[01:11:38]  Anyway, I'm just glad you're here.
[01:11:40]  I'm glad that it can be talked about openly without being, without, you know, you being shamed or you being, you know, I don't want you to be shamed by those people.
[01:11:49]  Like, don't listen to them.
[01:11:50]  You came to the, you realized it when you realized it, you, you know, a lot of you were like 10 when this initially, you know, people really started to find out about this.
[01:11:58]  So I'm not going to come down on you.
[01:12:00]  I'm going to welcome you because we need you.
[01:12:02]  We need you in order to take this entire collective up to this next level.
[01:12:07]  I don't know what that looks like.
[01:12:08]  I don't know what comes after this.
[01:12:10]  But I'm just take solace in the fact that we're all in it together, I guess.
[01:12:15]  That we're unified, at least in this.
[01:12:17]  And I take a lot of peace in that, that when it came to these kids, okay, that we could come together and Hate it.