Episode 105: QAnon Abducts Children feat Will Sommer
A network of QAnon figures are assisting fugitives, some of which planned abductions of their own children from foster homes, their legal guardians or CPS. Multiple custody disputes are also deteriorating, and all signs point to shady organizations like "The Children's Crusade" and "E-Clause". Join us in the spiral with Will Sommer, author of a recent two-part article on this topic.
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Welcome, listener, to Chapter 105 of the QAnon Anonymous Podcast, the QAnon Adducts Children episode.
As always, we are your hosts, Jake Rokitansky, Julian Field, and Travis View.
This week, we are leaning into an incredibly unfortunate development in the world of QAnon.
The formation of an underground network of conspiracy theorists encouraging people to abduct their own kids back from child protective services because, you guessed it, they believe CPS are pedophile cannibals in league with the deep state cabal.
An organization called Children's Crusade is currently serving as a front for a dizzying array of QAnon YouTubers who, among other things, plan to raid a foster home, hid a QAnon politician turned petty criminal from the law, and sold baseless legal solutions to desperate parents in custody battles.
Multiple figures we've covered in the past will make an appearance along the way, including Alpilus Slyman, Daniel Stella, Jessica Prim, and Cynthia Abzug.
This is Bonnie and Clyde, and La Résistance plus brainworms.
And we're gonna get deep into it with Will Sommer, the man who just published a massive two-part article uncovering this entire story.
But before all that...
First up, the big news this week.
QAnon follower Marjorie Taylor Greene wins runoff election.
Wow.
So big congrats to her and her entire team.
No, not the takeaway.
On Tuesday, Greene beat out her Republican opponent John Cowan in Georgia's 14th district by getting over 43,000 votes or 57.2% of the total vote.
So she won handily.
She did well.
She beat Man Cow.
Incredible.
So she's gonna proceed to the general election where she will almost certainly win there as well.
So just a reminder, Marjorie Taylor Greene through some of 2017 and all of 2018 was an open and proud QAnon follower.
In fact, videos recently uncovered by Media Matters drive home just how far down the rabbit hole she was.
In a 2018 American Priority Conference livestream, Green promoted the baseless idea that the criminal gang MS-13 was responsible for the death of Seth Rich.
MS-13, everyone!
Under Obama came MS-13!
There's a lot to that, you have to understand.
They had very good relationships with MS-13.
MS-13 was basically like...
They were kind of the henchmen of the Obama administration.
They did a lot of the dirty work.
Seth Rich.
Seth Rich was murdered by two MS-13 gang members.
That's what I mean by dirty work, okay?
That was never verified, never contained in one report.
Now, where did she get the crazy idea that MS-13 was a private hit squad for the Democratic Party and was without an assassinated Seth Rich?
And also are dressed in, like, black and white striped pajamas and are called, like, goons or daffy duck or something.
Well, she got that idea from QDROP 85, which was posted all the way back on November 4th, 2017, which pushed the exact same theory.
Green also promoted the idea that there was a secret 16-year plan to destroy America, which would have been completed if Hillary was elected.
Now, they had a plan.
They had a plan.
This wasn't an 8-year plan.
The Radical Transformation of America was not an 8-year plan.
It was a 16-year plan.
And the plan, the second half of the 16 years, the next 8 years, was supposed to happen under Hillary Clinton.
Now she got that idea from Q-Drop 570, which was posted in January of 2018.
So all this stuff.
She's majorly a Q-Pill.
She's reading the drops.
She's in the community.
Yeah, and this is the new her.
She's looking better, her hair, she's in shape.
She's at this American Priority kind of pre-conference thing.
This is definitely her representing herself politically.
Absolutely.
100%.
And these are just copy-pastes of Q-Drops.
Yeah.
Great.
She also promoted the idea that the plane crash that killed JFK Jr.
wasn't just a tragic accident, but was rather the product of Hillary Clinton, who apparently murdered JFK Jr.
in an attempt to get a Senate seat in New York.
So, she has to run for Senate, right?
So she runs for Senate in New York City.
Okay, so she becomes Senator in New York City, and yes, I could dive into Kennedy getting killed in the plane crash because isn't it interesting that he had announced he was going to run for Senate just before he died in a mysterious plane crash.
But anyway, so that's another one of those Clinton murders, right?
Right, I love it, I love it.
At the beginning she's like, well I could get into JFK.
You know, isn't it interesting, actually, that he was running for Senate right when his plane mysteriously crashed.
It wasn't a mystery.
You've looked into this, right?
It was like mechanical failure, well documented.
No, no, no.
It was a result of a pilot error, unfortunately.
JFK Jr.
did not have a lot of experience flying that plane at night.
The conditions were hazy.
It was a tragic accident, yeah.
Fair enough.
But then she's like, by the end of it, she's like, yeah, just another one of those Clinton murders.
It's just amazing.
In the breadth of like 30 seconds, she goes from like, ah, I won't get into this, to like, Hillary Clinton is a murderer.
I mean, it's just, there's no self-restraint.
It's delicious.
Delicious and nutritious.
President Trump took to Twitter to praise her victory.
Congratulations to future Republican star Marjorie Taylor Greene on her big congressional primary win in Georgia against a very tough and smart opponent.
Her victory prompted the very first denouncement of QAnon from a sitting congressman that was Adam Kingsinger, the Republican representative from Illinois' 16th district.
He said this.
QAnon is a fabrication.
This insider has predicted so much incorrectly, but people don't remember past predictions, so now has switched to vague generalities.
Could be Russian propaganda or a basement dweller.
Regardless, no place in Congress for these conspiracies.
Sure.
That comment from Kinzinger inspired Matt Wolking, the deputy director of communications for the Trump campaign, to fire back at him.
Matt Wolking tweeted this.
When will Representative Kinzinger condemn the steel dossier fabrications and conspiracy theories pushed by Democrats
that actually was Russian propaganda?
Now, this I thought was a really weird development, because here we have a congressman going after an incoming congressman
for basically promoting QAnon.
And the response from the Trump campaign is to go after the guy attacking QAnon.
Like, they haven't denounced QAnon, but they have attacked someone who denounced QAnon.
They denounced the denouncer.
It's so obvious where their loyalties lie.
Their whole message is, if you say a bad thing about a fierce Trump ally, which Karine is supposed to be, then we'll go after you.
Even if it's in the context of denouncing QAnon.
I mean, it's so obvious.
Trump is like, at least the Team Trump, they are really on Team QAnon.
They will protect QAnon from attacks.
They just want the election to come and go.
Yeah, they don't want them to lose hope because I think maybe they've got internal data.
They need balance, basically.
That QAnon is probably a lot bigger than we think it is and enough of a meaningful part of the voter constituency that they're like, hell, we actually can't turn these guys off because That's actually a big part of our base.
Yeah, so really you just tacitly endorse QAnon while you clear out the U.S.
mail service.
And then, next step, democracy?
I think a stronger country, a union.
More awake.
Congressman Denver Riggleman also condemned QAnon.
Come on!
Come on!
Riggleman said this.
If she's the future of the Republican Party, we're in trouble.
QAnon is the mental gonorrhea of conspiracy theories.
It's disgusting and you want to get rid of it as fast as possible.
I know because I've had gonorrhea.
I've had it twice!
Marjorie Taylor Greene's typical strategy for dealing with scrutiny about her QAnon beliefs has been to deflect an attack.
Hell yeah.
She's good at attacking.
She's pure aggressive energy.
Yeah, she's just no self-reflection, no defense, just attack, attack, attack.
Yeah, she could give a good run to the rest of Congress, just like, you know, in a competition to be the angriest Congress person, just the most forceful and kind of, I guess, like violent of word.
You know, maybe Trump will pick her as his running mate.
Oh my God.
In 2020.
Don't even begin to... I can't believe you just said that and now it's gonna happen.
I think that would be a slam dunk.
Could replace JFK Jr.
as the running mate.
Can you imagine?
Dude, Pence is too stale.
He's too... He would never trade the QAnon constituency for the Evangelical constituency.
Pence, his only role is to make sure that those people go to the ballot box on that day.
That's it.
True.
You keep him around for four years, get whatever you want, pass.
If it were up to Trump, he'd have two vice presidents.
He'd be like, well, in my company, I have 100 presidents.
Well, he kind of does.
He just hired all his kids for random roles that don't exist.
Basically, he was like, hey, I'm pretty sure it's just whoever's in the room.
And that's it.
And he's right.
Because there is no rule.
Not really.
It was just we all kind of agreed that would be kind of ghost.
After Greene won her runoff election, however, she changed her tune about QAnon.
In an interview with Fox News, she finally distanced herself from the conspiracy theory movement.
She says that she did follow Q until she chose a different path by running for Congress.
Yeah.
I had read about a lot of things.
I had posted, talked about, talked about on video things that I had had seen on cue.
But really, really what made me change my mind is as a person that's worked hard all my life, I decided I chose a different path.
And that's where I came to the place where I decided to run for Congress because I was so disappointed It's a brilliant response because what it does is it frames QAnon as a thing that you can pursue.
I did, just didn't, I didn't, you know what, I, I, it wasn't that I changed my mind and thought that QAnon was bad, it was just that my path was not to be a baker and make QAnon videos, my path was to run for Congress.
She's just, she's just saying, listen, At the point at which the mysticism was no longer useful for my plan, it was jettisoned in favor of more hard-edged fascism.
And guess what?
I'm feeling better!
I am the best person I've ever been!
Happier.
Better.
More productive.
Able to bench press all three hosts of this podcast.
Yeah, she's basically saying, like, I was in the QAnon until I realized that promoting these theories might interfere with my lust for power.
Yeah, exactly.
Listen, I want my boots licked, okay?
QAnon or no... Yeah, she's like, some people, you know, like to stay at homes.
Other people like to run for Congress.
The thing is, if you want to stay at home, QAnon is a great avenue for that.
That's right.
But if you want to run for Congress and, you know, up your power level a little bit, you gotta shed some of the magic.
Green says that one of the things that made her turn away from QAnon was the fact that Q said that the midterms were safe, but the Democrats wound up taking the House in 2018.
I think, you know, the Russian collusion conspiracy theory that we have heard the media just espouse 24-7 for the past over three and a half years now.
That was what was intriguing to me and led me to read a whole bunch of stuff like that and talk about it, post about it, and put videos out about it.
And so that was a lot of what I thought was important.
But then the midterms, you know, it was the midterms are safe, midterms weren't safe, and Republicans lost control of the House.
And now we have just seen nonstop divisiveness in Congress.
She looks so uncomfortable here.
Yeah.
This, I think, hurts her in some way, deep down, maybe.
No, I think she just feels a bit like she's inconvenienced that she has to do this stop on her media tour, you know what I mean?
Right, right.
Okay, I'll do like the the the the charity gala where I can't do blue jokes You know like there's that she's like I'm bigger than this.
Why is she in the constitutional trailer on Fox News Digital?
She's like, I know what kind of a queen I am.
This is not where I should be well and also this is a shitty I mean, this is a shitty part of the interview for her because she has to sort of like acknowledge Yeah, her Q&A.
Be on the deflence and like talk about how it was wrong and how I've grown.
It just pains her physically.
But why do they have like a weird like Kickstarter entrepreneur music thing going on in the background?
To make it less creepy that she's just in a weird box?
I don't know.
Fucking talking about Q&A again?
Why is everybody in a fucking shed house?
This is absolutely she shed house.
Oh boy.
By the way, her claim that she started to turn away from QAnon because of that misprediction in the midterms is kind of interesting, considering that there is evidence that she continued to be very much part of the QAnon community in December of 2018, after that election.
Yeah, and in 2019 she was tweeting about QAnon positively still.
Yeah, so this is all bullshit.
It's a lie.
It's just fucking bullshit.
I mean, she's just saying, she's basically very much encouraging people that are disappointed with some of the things that Q is getting wrong to simply run for Congress and or mobilize.
She is really looking for true mobilization.
Boots on the ground.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's really no denouncement here.
Here's what I think she's doing is that she's trying to, she doesn't want to suffer the same fate as Steve King, the open white supremacist congressman from Iowa.
Oh, what's that fate?
Just continually stay in Congress?
Right, right, right.
For most of his career, he was doing just fine.
But at the end of his congressional career, he was taken off of committees and stuff.
He was kind of isolated in the House.
They took his pins and ribbons away.
Aw, Steve, is he still very, very rich?
Yeah, he's still doing great.
Fantastic.
For my next story, Trump has asked the Q but doesn't answer the Q. So a longtime fantasy of the QAnon community is that Trump will publicly confirm QAnon when asked directly about it by a reporter.
This belief stems from a June 2018 Q drop that says this.
We are waiting for a reporter to ask the ultimate question.
What are they waiting for?
They can end this at any time, simply by asking POTUS, right?
We may have to force this one.
Q. This belief has caused members of the QAnon community to demand for reporters to ask Trump about QAnon.
For example, here's what one QAnon follower said.
None of you journalists dares to ask POTUS this one single question.
The media could end the whole thing within a second.
The Q movement would end overnight.
Yet you cowards are too afraid to ask him.
Because you're afraid of the answer!
Yep, and the QAnon movement has ended.
Right.
That theory was finally put to the test when a reporter asked Trump about QAnon in relation to the nomination of Marjorie Taylor Greene.
But rather than answering the question directly, Trump deflected and moved on to another reporter question.
You congratulated Marjorie Taylor Greene in a tweet.
You called her a future Republican star.
Greene has been a proponent of the QAnon conspiracy theory.
She said it's something that would be worth listening to.
Do you agree with her on that?
Well, she did very well in the election.
She won by a lot.
She was very popular.
Uh, she comes from a great state, and she had a tremendous victory, so absolutely I did congratulate her.
Please go ahead.
I just wanted to ask you what ails your brother Robert and...
Wow, so he absolutely sidestepped.
He knows exactly what's going on.
He knows exactly.
We know he knows.
He knows exactly what's going on.
That wasn't just a bumble.
That was a purposeful, you know.
I mean, he heard her do the follow-up and was like, next, shut up, not you again.
Yeah.
And look, and also notice how he emphasizes absolutely, because that is already what the Anons, at least the ones that I've started seeing on Twitter, are starting to take away.
Yes, they've tried to change the subject of the Exactly.
They're trying to modify grammar to their liking so that their fantasy... Yeah, they were saying... Instead of disappearing overnight as they fucking promised... You're right, yeah.
YOU COWARDS!
Yeah, because they'll say... Yeah, they say that he said, absolutely, congratulate her.
Absolutely, I congratulated her.
He doesn't even take... There's no beat between those two.
The placement of the comma in the transcript is a bigger mistake than the interpretation.
But he knows exactly what he's doing.
I mean...
I mean, he just doesn't want to answer.
He just doesn't want to answer.
He's just being informed, if you are asked a question about QAnon, change the subject.
Change the subject.
Done.
I congratulate her, she comes from Georgia.
She's a great state, absolutely, she's great, very popular.
Absolutely, I congratulate her.
Next question.
Next.
And then she's like, I asked about QAnon, and he's like, no, I already called on a different child.
Sit down.
In some weird way.
I'm kind of with the Anons on this.
If you're going to ask the Q, you just have to flat out, Mr. Trump, is QAnon real?
That's it!
That's not a good question.
You just showed, okay, well... But let's talk about this.
Is QAnon real is absurd, Jake.
Because first of all, he's not the arbiter of realness or not.
Yeah, right.
It doesn't make sense, man.
Okay, maybe that's not the right question.
You're operating from a non-mindset, where they think that when Trump says something, he speaks reality into existence.
Okay, fine.
How about this, though?
Travis, just for the purpose of discussion, is there a way to ask Where Trump would have to address.
Because in this situation, it's presented as part of this thing with Margie Taylor Greene believes in this, like, are you also like... There is a way to ask where Trump would have to address.
I don't know.
With a gun pointed to his head.
I mean... I guess that's all I'm... You can't force a person... I'm not really siding with the... I guess... Okay.
I'm not siding with the Anons, I'm just saying like... You're not really siding with it.
No, no, no, I never am.
But absolutely, they're good people.
No, I never am.
And absolutely, you congratulate them.
I'm just saying, is there a way Is there a way that the question could be asked that really could put this to rest, that would put Trump in a place of really having to either stand by it or not?
Or, I don't know.
No, I don't think there's a limit to Trump's ability to deflect and ignore and bullshit, regardless of how the question is phrased.
I think I'm just spinning out of control because I was talking to Travis earlier and it was like, every time it seems like, you know, people are gonna sort of give up and maybe get like blackpilled as like, you know, the best result.
They realize like Q is, you know, kind of full of bullshit.
It's just like, it finds a way to regrow another limb.
Even if Trump said, oh, QAnon, yes, that's real, that still wouldn't answer anybody's question.
Because then people would be like, well, wait, what is his, why did he do that?
And like, what does he mean by real and like which aspect?
And then, so you're into, into another set of questions.
And then you're like, why aren't they asking those questions?
It's never going to stop.
You could, you could chop this little fucker up.
It's like a worm.
All the pieces are going to become sentient and they're all going to have their own split offs.
It reminds me of the scene in Army of Darkness, Evil Dead 3, where Ash gets into a fight with basically a thousand little versions of himself that come from shattered pieces of a mirror.
No, and it's the brooms in Fantasia.
That's QAnon.
You think you're fucking taking care of the broom problem, but you're just making more brooms.
Unsurprisingly, the fact that Trump punted on the question didn't dissuade the QAnon community.
For example, here's what QAnon promoter Jordan Sather said.
Oh my god, of course.
King of brooms!
King of brooms!
President Trump just had all the chance in the world to condemn QAnon right there at the White House podium, and he didn't.
What does that tell you?
See?
He moved the goalpost again.
He didn't condemn it.
So now that's about as satisfying for them as if he said it was real.
So if he said it was real, or he didn't say it was real, it doesn't fucking matter.
I think that's what I'm so upset about.
I think I'm getting to your level of upsetness at the sort of Complete just like, uh, blinders to anything that makes like logical, logical sense that's rooted in some kind of reality that feels familiar to me.
I just feel like I'm, I feel like Sandra Bullock and fucking gravity just fucking floating out into the middle of nowhere.
No reference points for anything, like desperately grasping even a stupid fucking news story like this being like, He's lost.
He's lost.
Something that like, that they could ask him to at least put an end to this one way or another
because my brain is just like sick of living in two fucking different realities.
See he's just entered the valley of rationality, also known as the valley of death.
It's one of the worst parts of the journey.
I'm very hot.
It's good.
Where you're attempting to actually interpret it using your rational body.
Oh yeah, it's very lonely.
I mean, no one really likes you.
You come across as kind of obnoxious, and also it's very unsatisfying.
So, welcome.
It's like you're trying to breathe water, or, you know, it doesn't make any sense.
You know what?
In Canada once, a friend of mine convinced me to smoke salvia, which is like synthetic weed.
No, it's not synthetic weed.
Salvia divinorum is absolutely not.
What is?
I have no idea what it was.
It's a psychedelic.
But when I smoked it, I was trapped in a grid.
I felt like I was trapped in a geometrical grid and could only move in certain directions.
I'm feeling a similar sort of sensation now.
Yeah, you're sensing the machine elves at the edge of reality, slowly turning their little cranks.
I also wanted to touch on some Durham investigation news.
FBI lawyer pleads guilty for altering an email as part of the Trump-Russia investigation.
He made the smiley face an unsmiley face.
So I really want to touch on this because QAnon followers have been eagerly awaiting the results of attorney John Durham's investigation into the origins of the Russia investigation.
And just this past week, Durham made his first prosecution as the FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith.
Clinesmith apparently doctored an email so it said that former Trump campaign advisor Carter Page was not a source for the CIA even though Page previously had a relationship with the agency.
Relying on what Clinesmith has said, the FBI ultimately did not disclose Page's relationship with the CIA as it applied to renew a warrant to monitor him as a possible agent of a foreign power.
So, wow, this is something.
It's not nothing.
It doesn't allege a conspiracy quite yet that goes straight to the top.
I know yeah so bored I know yeah just just more more process crimes yeah I love to just have all of this basically be like if you if you played a really bad RPG and all you did was like read the emails in people's terminals and all the lore and all the books you found in the world you know just right that kind of like filler content this feels like fucking filler Yeah, they had this- Everyone's going to prosecute everyone for little things, and everybody's kind of doing bad stuff.
They had Carter Page talking to two shady Russians.
They were like, here he is, let's get him.
And they were like, oh, well, if we know that he might have had contact with shady Russians because of his work with the CIA, a warrant might not go forward.
So he changed the thing.
Yeah, I think FISA surveillance powers should be treated very, very delicately, and they should disclose everything that's irrelevant when applying for those.
For my next story, trial will proceed for a QAnon follower accused of kidnapping plot.
A judge in Douglas County, Colorado says that there's enough evidence to proceed with the case for Cynthia Absug.
Absug is accused of plotting a raid with other QAnon followers to kidnap her son.
Yeah, I mean, she says raid, that's her word.
Really, she was just going to basically break into a foster home to kidnap her child.
Yeah, calling it a raid.
Yeah, that's a lot.
That's like you're buying into the action movie shit.
You can't really gamify kidnapping.
As much as you would like to.
This would definitely be like a Metal Gear Solid, you know?
Get into the foster home!
That, of course, brings us to the main topic of this episode, which is Will Sommer's really amazing two-part series that reveals that Cynthia Abzug's case is not an isolated incident.
Cynthia Abzug's case is part of a QAnon network that involves a few groups that provide worthless legal advice to parents who have lost custody of their children and harbor fugitives from the law.
This network has allegedly encouraged and inspired other QAnon believers, especially parents, to commit crimes, including kidnapping.
One key part of this network is called the Children's Crusade, which is led by Field McConnell, a former airline pilot who has reinvented himself as a QAnon YouTuber.
Another group is the followers of QAnon promoter Timothy Charles Holmeseth.
Holmeseth claims to be the head of the Pentagon Pedophile Task Force.
This is an entirely fictional Defense Department operation.
That's not true.
Jake has written multiple stories about similar, if not exactly this.
Yeah, it's the PPTF, baby.
These guys, they've been around.
I'm pretty sure these are all animals that have human features and different styles of weapons.
I'm almost certain.
Yeah.
Don't you listen to this show?
They live in the sewer.
Don't you listen to the fucking show, Travis?
Travis, one person inspired by Holmes Beth was Alpolis Slyman, who led police on a hundred
mile an hour car chase with his five children in the vehicle.
One thing to note here is that I didn't know this, but in the story, it's revealed that
Alpolis basically his wife and daughter launched themselves out of the car at one point.
Yeah.
To escape him.
And then he still kept getting chased by the cops until finally they blew out four of his tires and he kept going and then he fucking crashed his van.
He was a determined man.
An absolute beast.
And you know what?
The mother and the daughter, they decided, he was so obsessed with QAnon, they decided to basically pretend to be part of the Deep State Cabal.
So they started telling him that to make him scared, to make him stop.
And in the process, they Tumbled out but at that point he was already basically
heard like accusing them of being part of the cabal and the deep state and shit
so just Really like a person erasing themselves due to this
ideology Just just destroying their whole fucking life still another
group involved in this ring is the fringe legal theorist Chris Hallett and Kirk
Pendergrass how it and Pendergrass run an organization called e-clause and this is a Florida based legal outfit
that Advocates for bizarre and useless legal tactics that sound
a lot like those used by sovereign citizens It stands for Emoluments Clause.
Hallett has claimed that Trump inspired him to create E-Clause.
Yeah.
Neither Hallett, who lives in Florida, nor Pendergrass, who lives in Idaho, are registered attorneys in their states, nor do they appear to have legal degrees.
No, of course not.
But they still solicit donations to Fundy Clause.
It teaches you to do stuff like, you know, be like, I am Sarah, daughter of myself on this land.
And then it's like basically shit you say while you get arrested.
There's no real effect other than that's the stuff you're saying while they arrest you.
The legal tactics of E-Clause appear to have universally failed to sway judges at either the federal or the state level.
No shit.
When Hallett's own child custody case was ruled on in January, a baffled federal judge called Hallett's filings rambling and patently frivolous.
That judge also said that Hallett believed Trump wanted him to create a private legal system alternative.
I mean, that literally is what MAGA America will become, you know?
We have to enter the MAGA autonomous zone.
The opinion in Hallett's case said this.
The court declines to entertain the plaintiff's fantasy that he is acting at the behest of the president.
In the case of Cynthia Abzug, she dove straight into the world of QAnon after losing custody of her son.
She became a YouTube star in the QAnon community by appealing to people who believe that children who have been put in foster care have in fact been kidnapped so a cabal that controls the world can sexually abuse them and drink their blood in satanic rituals.
Yeah, normal.
In an August 2019 episode of McConnell's YouTube show, he warned Abzug not to get a lawyer to fight for custody of her son.
Instead, McConnell said he would just tell Donald and Melania Trump about her case.
In mid-September, McConnell's group dispatched Ryan Wilson, a QAnon supporter from Arkansas, to protect Abzug from what she and her fans increasingly saw as a deep state attempt to destroy her.
Abzug described Wilson as a trained sniper, and Absug's daughter told police that Wilson was armed.
Absug began to only leave her home for meetings with other QAnon believers,
and Wilson went with her everywhere.
Absug bought a gun and made plans to train at a shooting range.
How is this different than all of our corona experiences?
This is exactly the same thing that's happening to me.
Wilson and Abzug allegedly began planning what they described as a raid, which consisted of an alleged attack on the foster home where Abzug's son was living.
The QAnon believers said that they learned the address of the foster home and described the people running the home as quote evil Satan worshipers and pedophiles.
Oh, I just imagined the beginning of this round in Rainbow Six where it's all just children on the inside trying to barricade the walls.
Meanwhile, the TAC team is coming from the roof.
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Pedo Wars.
I hate playing as the children.
They can't even reach the windows!
Absug's YouTube appearances won her another supporter, Joseph Ramos, a Colorado medical student who became a sort of assistant to Absug after seeing her case on McConnell's show.
Yeah, we're gonna have to ask Will about this because this sounds... This is bizarre.
This sounds special.
I don't know, it seems like if you're in medical school at least you have a plan for your life, you're going somewhere.
I think there's only one thing that could get you off the path to medical school and that is Incredibly kinky sex with a QAnon supporter who takes you on the lam and shows you a good time.
Abzug's daughter eventually alerted police about the raid, but before they could execute an arrest warrant on Abzug, she fled the state with Ramos and Wilson in tow on September 27th.
Abzug, Ramos, and Wilson.
I mean, it's a fucking movie now.
It's like, oh, the cast is assembled, we've got the sniper, we've got the young twink that's peeled away from medical school.
And the crazy woman, her teenage daughter.
God, what a nightmare trying to plot to take back her son.
I mean, what a life.
Kind of exciting, though.
Honestly, I take it back.
My corona's not as cool as this.
This is really cool.
This is body and Clyde shit.
Abzug, Ramos, and Wilson showed up at the front door at the home of Field McConnell in Plum City, Wisconsin, much to his surprise.
They stayed with McConnell, but while at a store in Plum City, Abzug and Ramos received a call from McConnell warning them that law enforcement officials had shown up at his house.
Yo, I know I told you you could stay on my couch tonight, but the cops are looking for you, dude.
Sorry.
Ramos speculated that the call might have just been a scheme by McConnell to get them to leave his house, but they fled anyway.
See?
But that's the LARP, right?
It's like, you want to follow the best story, the best logic.
The best next step for this story is that that call was real.
Yeah.
And so they respect it.
They respect the narrative.
Yeah, they respect the plot.
They know it's boring, and they know it sends them home with no children.
After leaving Plum City, Abzug and Ramos moved in with a Children's Crusade supporter in the small town of Osceola, Wisconsin.
Yeah, so they're just, like, going through the network to the different safe houses.
Yeah, they're just a huge network with lots of, like, safe houses that they can just go to.
Damn.
I love this.
I can't stop making Ubisoft game references, but she's unlocking the map.
Then, as Children's Crusade members continue to promise to win custody back for Abzug, she and Ramos travel to stay with another McConnell ally in Northern Virginia.
She's just all over the country now.
Well, she's kind of a badass fugitive.
While they were on the run, Ramos claims, the Children's Crusade network wired him an absolute at least $7,500.
The pair was visited intermittently by various McConnell allies.
Sometimes they'd be met by Wilson or Juan O. Savin, a McConnell ally who some Children's Crusade fans believe is secretly John F. Kennedy Jr.
in disguise.
This is fucking outrageous.
This is a Vincent Fuchsia apparently imposter, apparently competitor.
I guess so.
Competitor, yeah.
We'll have to put them side-by-side in, like, a blurry JPEG to determine.
Yeah, we'll have to stage two children's birthday parties.
Invite them both.
At the end of 2020, we're gonna make all the different JFK Jr.
pretenders compete in a fight to the death on the White House lawn.
Along the way, Abzug and Ramos stayed in motel rooms they could pay for with cash and worried about being pulled over by a state trooper who could discover that Abzug was wanted on a warrant.
As the weeks passed, Abzug became fed up with the Children's Crusade lack of progress on her legal case.
On October 23rd, having seen no action from the Children's Crusade, they drove to Ocala, Florida, where E. Claw's chief Christopher Hallett works.
But eventually, Abzal grew disillusioned with Hallett too, so in early November of 2019, she and Ramos drove to the small town of Dumas, Arkansas, to see Children's Crusade board member Sarah Dunklin.
Dunklin is described in Arkansas family court records as Wilson's girlfriend.
So she's having sex with a sniper.
So that's why I think the sniper's not having sex with Absug.
Unless this is just like a free-for-all.
But I'm almost certain Absug just has her boy Ramos, who's been servicing her from the beginning, ever since he quit law school.
Or medical school, right?
Sorry.
Well, you know, one of the two things that your particular mom would be proud of you for.
Correct.
Unlike many of McConnell's associates, Dunklin does have political connections.
She's the county GOP chair in Desha County, Arkansas, and was appointed to a USDA committee by U.S.
Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue.
Dunklin's belief in QAnon has played into her own custody fight with her ex-husband over their daughter.
Dunklin has filed bizarre, sovereign-citizen style documents describing herself as a, quote, woman by the calling of Sarah.
Dunklin also sent rambling emails to her ex-husband's attorney and her former mother-in-law about QAnon, McConnell, and Holmeseth, who is himself wanted on a warrant for allegedly violating a restraining order.
Nice.
Everybody's wanted.
All criminals.
That's right.
And that's because the deep state's targeting them, obviously.
They've never done a bad thing in their lives.
Dunklin has claimed that her daughter is surveilled at all times by a U.S.
Space Force ship with an invisibility cloak and said the day she received her Children's Crusade position was one of her proudest.
In July, a disheveled Dunklin appeared at family court clutching a dirty piece of women's clothing and frightening a court employee who worried Dunklin might attack her, according to a sworn affidavit from a court clerk.
Okay, I can't even joke on it.
This is just depressing.
Yeah.
Clutching a dirty piece of women's clothing?
Scaring the people in the court?
This is so fucking grim, man!
She's unstable.
Yeah, this is just bad.
Dunklin wrote this in an email to her ex-husband's attorney.
Are you aware that Q is a military intelligence information dissemination program aimed at defeating the deep state of which President Trump continually speaks?
Are you aware that President Trump retweeted Q followers 20 times in one day?
Again, what for us is the alarming news is for them the proof they're right.
The same data.
It just doesn't matter anymore.
It's all about the interpretation of it.
The judge in Dunklin's case called Dunklin's emails very disturbing and almost manic.
Almost.
In July, Dunklin passed a court-ordered psychological evaluation, but that evaluation was administered by another QAnon believer and Children's Crusade supporter.
How does this work?
This rules.
If they have a big enough network, they can find, yeah, a QAnon lawyer, QAnon doctor, QAnon legal assistant, QAnon cop, QAnon harem of young men.
QAnon senator?
Abzug is not the only fugitive QAnon believer who received support from the Children's Crusade.
The group is also tied to the mysterious flight of Danielle Stella, a one-time Minnesota Republican congressional candidate and QAnon follower who unsuccessfully ran for the seat held by Representative Ilhan Omar.
Stella's campaign was derailed after The Guardian reported in July of 2019 that she was wanted on a warrant for allegedly shoplifting more than $2,300 worth of goods from Target.
Come on, stand proud.
That's a good Target haul, by the way.
You can get a lot of shit for $2,300.
You can get a lot of shit for $2,300 at Target.
That's what I'm saying.
She should be running YouTubes on how to do this.
Rather than face the warrant, Stella traveled to a motel in Osceola, Wisconsin, the same town which Abzug and Ramos had fled to after leaving McConnell's house and the hometown of yet another McConnell associate named Michael Olson, Who believes God ordered him to help McConnell.
Just incredible.
That's just a nightmare.
So she's hiding out at this motel as well.
So they don't just protect, yeah, they protect people who also just do little crimes, little petty crime, and then you run.
Interesting.
Stella's stay in the hotel was paid for at least partially by Dunklin, the motel's manager told police.
On the afternoon of February 16th, a tipster warned the Osceola Police Department that Stella was being held in the motel against her will.
An officer arrived and, based on the tip, asked Stella about her ties to the Children's Crusade.
The report in that case says this.
She said that she has heard of QAnon and that she was slightly involved with the Children's Crusade movement until she determined that they do not help children.
A series of strange events ensued.
Stella claimed to police that McConnell's friend Olsen had somehow accessed her room.
Later that night, another officer was called to the motel over reports of people demanding information on Stella.
A woman who identified herself as a friend of Dunklin arrives at the motel and demanded to know Stella's room number.
Later, the same woman called 911 and gave a different name.
When a police officer asked why she was using an alias, she said she did it so, quote, nothing would be traced back to her.
She's just a LARPing, LARPing spy.
Are you a friend of Stella?
Oh, I'm looking for the QAnon meeting.
Oh yeah, it's right through there.
The Osceola Police Department ultimately decided there was no proof Stella was being held against her will.
Stella denied any association with McConnell or the Children's Crusade.
By mid-November, both Abzug and Ramos were sick of living in a partially burned-out motel by the Arkansas River and became convinced that the Children's Crusade was stringing them along.
They had also heard stories of federal agents discovering the homes that they had stayed at earlier in their journey.
So the feds are on their tail, basically.
Yeah.
Incredible.
Ramos claims the QAnon group provided Abzug with a bogus diplomatic immunity passport for fleeing to the Dominican Republic and urged him to buy a fake passport at a flea market.
Yeah, man, you know that.
Yeah, the flea market, the passport stand.
Yeah, you go to the illegal guy.
Counterfeit passports.
Yeah, the guy, the guy with a robot arm.
Hey, over this way.
It's like everything is a fucking Simpsons episode.
It's like, it's like, it's like, hey, you need a fake passport over here.
Yeah, that's right.
Ramos's medical school eventually filed a missing report on him.
Tired of living in Arkansas and receiving no actual legal help from the Children's Crusade, the pair travel to Kalispell, Montana, apparently to meet another contact.
On December 30th, Kalispell policed an FBI agent with guns drawn, pulled Abzug and Ramos out of a car, and arrested Abzug.
It's like a Coen Brothers movie.
It has that dark but hilarious plotting.
forward you know everything's gonna be so bad yeah sense it's not gonna end
yeah it's like Fargo kind of is there's less death there's this persistent sense
of dread and amusement at the same time yeah the soundtrack to our podcast fits
this story and there's also an element of people who are imbeciles acting
completely confident yet what they're doing is like gonna work
Always.
Yeah, not just that, but they're, like, representing the specialty.
Like, they're an expert in their field and they're, like, federally employed, you know?
But none of it's true.
Yeah.
After Abzug was hit with her conspiracy to commit kidnapping charge, she attempted to file a petition for habeas corpus using some strange legal tactics popular with her associates.
But a federal judge rejected the filing and called it frivolous.
Judges keep using the word frivolous!
Back in Arkansas, Dunklin also had her child custody case completely derailed by her ties to QAnon and the Children's Crusade.
Despite that, she has not given up on QAnon.
Dunklin wrote this in a recent email to her ex-husband's attorney.
Q represents a mainstream political and religious view, which we all have the freedom to choose.
In this country, I mean, she's not wrong.
She's not wrong.
You can believe in a balloon.
You can, you can.
It's more and more mainstream, and this is America.
You can believe what you want.
Yeah, if the other thing's not working for you, hell, this!
Do this thing, which fucks you up in courts over and over again.
A whole buffet!
I don't understand, like, this idea is like, I get that these parents, they're desperate.
They're desperate for any solution.
I understand that.
Yeah.
But why do they turn to something that just fucks up them and everyone in their network over and over again?
Because, Travis, there are people along the way that are encouraging it.
Yeah, including the president, because it's true that if you don't kind of at least address like a kind of whole portion of grift developing in the country, then on some level you're kind of enabling some of these sub-grifters to say stuff like, I'm one man away from Trump.
And then you can manipulate people that are a bit emotionally vulnerable or just want to buy into a kind of MLM style cult.
America's full of those people, too.
We've seen it.
Right.
So it's like I think it's really attractive for people.
But I think there's also a huge amount of exploitation of these women that, you know,
kind of making them believe that what these techniques are going to work and get them
their kids back.
And they end up making it way worse.
They're charged with other crimes that they hadn't committed previously.
So they're being pushed to basically make all the wrong decisions to get any kind of
custody of their children.
Right.
Not that I'm recommending they regain custody.
And you don't really hear too many instances of people in situations like ABSUG that go
Like, you know what?
Wait a minute.
This might actually end up in more charges.
Like, oh man, like evading the police or like breaking my kid out of protection.
Like, oh man, I could actually get in trouble.
But there's thousands that did.
Thousands definitely have refused.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, you get pitched this e-clause thing.
Let's say a thousand women get pitched this e-clause thing for the next step in like their custody battle.
And then there's like ten of those that go with it.
And then there's like three that follow through to the point where they're on the lam.
But that's the problem, is it's going to constantly keep filtering through because these people are not being disabled in any way.
If anything, the system's reinforcing them right now, heading into the election.
Definitely.
I mean, yeah, like they pointed out, they said Trump retweeted QAnon 20 times, so how is it invalid?
There has to be something to it.
It's like he's endorsing it.
The water is so muddy that people are getting stuck.
Speaking of people getting stuck, Will Sommer is the only person to attain what we call le triplet, which means he's appeared triplet times on the podcast.
He's a reporter for the Daily Beast and author of the Right Richter newsletter about conservative media.
Welcome back, Will.
Hey, thanks for having me.
That is a great honor.
I was surprised to see Jessica Prim in this really extended exposé because she seemed kind of unrelated to this.
And then, you know, she was, for the listener, was the woman who drove across the country and ended up kind of arrested on a pier after having a panic attack and ranting to a police officer about all these conspiracy theories.
And in your article, you wrote, Before her arrest, Prim had posted positively on Facebook about Homestead's mole children claim.
She claimed to be looking for the USNS Comfort, the Navy hospital ship docked in New York, that Holmes says supporters have claimed is involved in the fictitious mole children rescue.
So, I mean, we just went through a lot of the adventures that this network has been on, and we're going to be touching on that, but what the hell do mole children have to do with, like, child protective services and all of this?
Like, this is the melted part.
Help me understand.
Yeah, so Timothy Charles Holmeseth was, if not the, I believe the creator, or at least a major promoter of this idea, this QAnon idea we saw kind of at the start of the pandemic, that all these thousands of mole children were being rescued from underground sex dungeons.
And so Prim, you know, had kind of driven across the country to, you know, get those mole children, save them potentially from this ship.
She gets arrested.
She goes to jail.
And then what happens?
I mean, you said in the article she resurfaced?
Yeah, so many of these characters kind of are like villains, like in a movie or something.
And so she gets released, and I believe she gets out on bail, and then she pops up at the White House filming herself saying, like, I need to talk to somebody about how Child Protective Services took my kid.
And these Secret Service people, as you know, we've discussed before, are just constantly baffled by QAnon people.
So then she pops up at the White House and it seems now like it has way more to do with child custody, which is really like Holmeseth's specialty.
So did she come in through mole children and end up with his weird, you know, opinions on child protective services?
It's a little unclear.
I mean, it seems like possibly she came in from the child protective services angle and then got into the mole children.
Incredibly quickly, and then it moved her to go try to, I guess, save the mole children.
Because the first, I guess her first foray across country, what I'm surprised is that it didn't really involve her children in any way.
It wasn't personalized.
It was more like, the cabal is doing awful stuff, I'm near the USNS Mercy, you know, that kind of stuff, so.
Well, yeah, and also there's, you know, when you're dealing with Child Protective Services, I'm sure she imagined that there'd be a lot of paperwork, whereas rescuing the mole children, that's just an adventure you can go on.
You don't have to fill anything out.
You should fill up the car, you know?
Absolutely.
So, there's also this kind of fraudulent legal services company called E-Clause, and it plays a huge role in the story.
You also mentioned the Sovereign Citizen movement.
What do they have in common?
Yeah, so Sovereign Citizens are, you know, these are kind of the people you see in these YouTube videos saying, like, this is an admiralty court, because, like, the flag has a golden fringe and stuff, like, you have no authority over me.
So, this has been a thing for decades now, and they've killed a couple of law enforcement people.
So E-Clause, which is short for Emoluments Clause, I mean these people are like, the mythology of E-Clause is just nuts.
But it's like a sort of, I can't even say legal services, because no one involved in this is a lawyer.
I think even if they got a law degree, it would have some difficulty because of their criminal issues getting barred.
But I will say, the head of E-Clause is a notary, which he does not let people forget.
You know, we saw in this Nealey Blanchard kidnapping, where she said this woman was a big E-Clause fan in Kentucky, and she just delivered a letter saying, like, I reject your authority over, you know, CPS's authority over my kids.
And so they sort of peddle these kind of zany ideas.
And of course, everyone involved in this has had their own child custody issues.
And basically, like, they team up with people like Field McConnell and Timothy Holmeseth
to kind of create these, like, arcs for these women.
And then they kind of update their audiences and get a lot of donations.
You mentioned Neely Blanchard, and she struck me as a big fan of E. Claus.
Can you tell me how she promotes the company in her life?
Right.
I mean, so Neely Blanchard, basically when this kidnapping first happened and it was tied to QAnon, and, you know, I think Travis is so on top of these QAnon crimes, so I probably saw it there.
The Amber Alert said her license plate says E-Claus, and then she printed up E-Claus shirts for her kids.
So yeah.
Just great stuff.
Yeah.
So just kind of putting custody-related t-shirts on my children.
These are protective shirts, Julian.
It's not just a fringe legal theory.
It's a lifestyle.
Yeah.
Custodyhelp.com and just on your kid.
There are these activists who track these groups, and whenever there's kind of a weird standoff, they're like, is this an E-Clause person?
But I think in this case, it was really easy, because they said, the license plate is E-Clause.
Yeah, she gave it away.
So yeah, honestly, when people talk about it, it sounds almost like they're talking about a cult with a geography and a set of people that are controlling it, like these E-Clause people, like you said.
So do you think that there's something to that?
It strikes me as like a sub-sect of QAnon where, for the first time, the word sect encompasses it better, perhaps, than other words.
Yeah, I mean, certainly, like, you know, they have these kind of characters and these, like, totems, like Field McConnell and Timothy Holmeseth.
Um, and obviously they have their, sort of, uh, you know, their worldview, which includes the idea that you can use these E-Clause tactics.
Um, you know, I, Sarah Dunklin, who's one of the characters in this story, she's filing all these CPS, she's sending these crazy emails to, like, judges and stuff, and she's saying, the fact that I'm, like, tied to Timothy Holmeseth and Field McConnell, like, that is alone, like, a totem of my power.
And, like, did you know that there's only one man between Timothy Holmeseth and Donald Trump?
I mean, there really are all these sort of characters.
Yeah, which I loved.
I think one of my favorite definitely was Field McConnell and his project, McConnell's Veterans Ranch.
So, if he gets what he wants, can you just take us on a tour, Will?
We're at the entrance of the ranch.
I want you to tell me, what are we seeing in this ranch?
Right, well, first of all, the first thing, you're probably greeted at the gate by the medical director, a chiropractor named Dr. Good Vibes.
He has been, this is a real guy, and he loves doing karaoke with Field McConnell, and he wears like a pink wig sometimes, and so he probably shows you around.
I mean, it's a very weird situation, because like, it's just like, I don't know, we'll just have this ranch, and like, veterans and unaccompanied children live there.
I can't imagine it would be an issue to house people with permanent trauma and PTSD next to other people with permanent trauma and PTSD for vastly different reasons, neither of which are able to help each other for obvious reasons.
This is like a Gary Larson cartoon.
It is.
Well, I mean, just the idea of... I'm sure what people, like veterans with PTSD, the first thing they want is a kid they have no connection to just, like, running around at all times.
Well, I mean, it depends, I guess, if it's cute like a mole or if it's ugly like a child.
No, no, no, it's not like a... you can't... I don't think you can do, like, support children.
I don't think it works like that.
You can't, like... Support children!
You can't, like, slap a vest on them.
Oh, here's your own sexual abuse survivor for you to pet so your PTSD goes down.
So one thing I want to bring up about the fundraising mechanisms behind the ranch, and I wasn't able to get this in the story, but Phil McConnell is tens of thousands of dollars, as of 2018, in tax debt.
And so he began selling Zimbabwean Zims, which are a... This is what they call Travis.
Yes, right.
Yes, chief police released in his Patreon, he claimed that I was arrested and sent to Gitmo.
And I had Zim bonds on my person when I was arrested.
So it all connects.
So he was selling these Zims.
And so this is obviously similar to the Iraqi Dinar.
Uh, these kind of worthless currencies.
And Field was like, don't worry everyone, when this all gets really valuable, that's how we'll fund the ranch.
Um, and so to get people to buy Zim's, he had a guy who was like, who called into his show pretending to be Jim Mattis.
And so he'd be like, hey Field, it's me, the general.
Uh, my Zim's have already appreciated.
I'm rich now.
Everyone should buy these.
Oh man, that rules.
Just have fake celebrities call in, hey, this is actually Trump.
Jake, you were wondering, what's really going to unlock all of this?
They're just going to have a fake video of Trump saying, QAnon is real, I support all of this.
And that'll be good for them.
They don't even need the actual president to do anything.
Yeah, that's true.
Just deepfake it.
Deepfake yourself.
We should do it ourselves.
Exactly.
We can answer our own question.
You know, God helps those who help themselves.
Alright, so now that we've visited McConnell's Veterans Ranch, a nightmare to come, I wanted to talk about a point in the story where you say that Cynthia Abzug developed a, quote, budding career as a QAnon star.
This just worried me to no end, because is there a circuit now?
Is this how far we've come?
You can just do the circuit if you get big?
Yeah!
I mean, she went on Patriot Soapbox.
Of course.
She went on, I believe, some kind of Red Pill YouTube show with that in the name.
I mean, she really hit all the stops, and then that was sort of when I think she caught Field McConnell's eye, and he kind of had her become a character on his show.
I mean, all these people who just call into the show, it's kind of like Howard Stern or something, where you just have these people kind of hanging out in the back, and then you kind of enter that universe.
The whole thing actually kind of reeks of like professional wrestling or something like there's a lot of kind of showmanship and you know like you said characters it almost it does in that QAnon fashion you know between the movie and reality really plays on that line but I want to talk about a part of this story that I did not like and that's that you were covering this man Juan O. Savin And you wrote, he's a McConnell ally who some Children's Crusades fans believe is secretly John F. Kennedy Jr.
in disguise.
So, dude, first of all, that's horrifying.
Clearly an imposter.
And do you think Vincent Fusk is in danger?
Yeah, I mean, so as you say, this is not the first person who has claimed to be John F. Kennedy Jr.
or allowed people to believe he is.
You know, this guy, it will not surprise you to learn Juan is not his real name.
But I have not quite nailed down what his actual identity is.
But again, this is a guy with a absolutely massive child custody case.
Oh my god, wait, is his name like a play?
Like Juana Savin' the Kids?
or what is the...
Wanna save the kids?
laughter laughter
Oh my god I don't believe so, but yeah.
So the funny thing is, he would call into Fields' show, and they wouldn't show his face, so you couldn't be like, that guy doesn't look anything.
Like, no one officially has seen what this guy looks like.
So that's what's so funny about it.
And I will say, the guy in real life looks nothing like JFK Jr.
I mean, but that doesn't stop Vincent Fusca.
But so this guy would call in and just sort of say, like, Harvard Yard!
And to be more like, that's him!
I'm calling you from the yacht where I'm looking at my enormous penis.
I'm very, very bronzed.
I love it.
I can't wait.
I want there to be like several, you know?
I want there to be like a battle between them, like a feud between two JFK Jr.
imposters.
I would love that.
I want Vincent Fusca to use the money he's getting from selling merch to have reconstructive surgery.
He could actually become JFK Jr.
Yeah, there's that Russian girl who tried to look like Barbie.
What if he went real far, like reptile guy far, where he splits his tongue kind of level of self-mutilation?
That wouldn't do well for the QAnon folks then.
No, he wouldn't turn himself into a reptile.
I just mean he would apply the same extreme tactics to become more JFK Jr.
like.
Another fascinating figure in your story is Sarah Dunklin, who's kind of heavily involved in Children's Crusade, and she's also in a relationship with Ryan Wilson.
We've got to follow along here, but he was the guy sent to protect Abzug and Abzug claimed to her daughter that he was a trained sniper.
Sent by who?
By the Children's Crusade to protect her so that she could continue to plot Breaking her son out of a specific foster home.
She never did this, thank God, but they wanted to do that, the raid.
But anyways, so this sniper, quote-unquote, is also the boyfriend of the GOP chair in Desha County, Arkansas, and holds a position on the USDA committee.
And then her dad also just narrowly lost his Senate primary.
Have you noticed the GOP react in any way to being kind of somewhat implicated?
Uh, first of all, no.
I mean, I haven't seen any response from the GOP or the USDA who I asked about this and was like, hey, is this lady still, like, a political appointee?
And frankly, like, I mean, she is, based on what we've seen from some of these court filings, I mean, she's basically mentally unhinged, it seems.
So, the, you know, but, you know, she's still, she was a Trump 2016 delegate.
And I mean, when ABSA gets to her town, you know, she says basically, like, I run this town.
Uh, you know, and it doesn't seem, you know, it's a town of a couple thousand people.
It seems sort of believable that, you know, she would have some in with law enforcement there.
And so Danielle Stella was another familiar figure for us.
She lost the Republican primary to oppose Ilhan Omar in Minnesota.
And then she was wanted for shoplifting and seems to have gotten support from Children's Crusade to hide out in a motel in Osceola County, Florida.
So does this network just cover for any like QAnon related criminals or do they have to be kind of women or I mean there seems to be a focus on women.
Yeah, you know, it's interesting.
I mean, there certainly does seem to be a focus on women.
I mean, on one hand, you know, although Timothy Holmeseth is also currently a fugitive, and they're putting him up somewhere.
Right.
So, I mean... But at the same time, yeah, Danielle Stella, her...
Yeah, this is like torrent.
This is like a fucking, this is like a torrent.
It's a torrent.
It's decentralized.
You cannot actually delete the file because it's being hosted, like, in multiple different locations and it's constantly shifting.
Yeah.
Nightmare.
That's a good way of explaining it.
Fucking nightmare.
Yeah, I mean, the interesting thing about Danielle Still, I mean, you talk about these things kind of pinging, and this didn't make it in the story either, but she at one point was telling the police that she had gone to Arkansas, which, like, hint hint, probably to see Sarah Dunklin as part of some scheme.
And so there's just all these threads that keep recurring.
And of course, Osceola is where Dr. Good Vibes lives.
So like, of course, there's just, I mean, it just kind of recurs.
And by the way, the police report on, it's like an eight page police report
that's just updated every day that Danielle Stella does something crazy in this town.
And like some just like tiny little Wisconsin border town.
And there's like, I got called to the motel again.
You know, there's some Children's Crusade nut screaming about Danielle Stella.
Because someone said that she was being held there against her will, then they showed up, they determined she probably wasn't held against her will, she also denied knowing the Children's Crusade people that were based out of Osceola.
The whole thing is a mess, and it seems like it's part of a bigger network that's getting organized.
At the same time, I can't help but, like, laugh at this, because it's so absurd, and maybe that's what makes them more dangerous, if anything, is that it's so complex, and just Byzantine, and, you know, patently insane, that you kind of disconnect, but at the end of the day, these people are, like, you know, they're They're committing crimes out there and taking children away from, you know, the let's say sometimes their own grandmothers who were assigned as their legal guardians.
So, I mean, you know what?
How should we assess the danger here?
I mean, I think maybe it's the question is maybe is the Children's Crusade themselves dangerous?
Although certainly planning a raid on a foster home, an armed raid is not great.
Um, I think it's the larger takeaway is I think the concerning issue of QAnon followers becoming organized as a sort of violent or law-breaking group, um, and creating these networks where, you know, that potentially they're able to like provide each other with support.
I mean, obviously in the past we've seen, we're used to like kind of lone wolf QAnon behavior, but if, I mean, if they actually start teaming up and working together in the real world, um, I think it's something to be concerned about.
Yeah, not just providing support, providing safe houses, providing financial support, providing encouragement to engage in crimes, you know, is yeah, is is something is a lot.
It's one thing when it's decentralized, where it's already weird when it starts performing these kinds of networks that support each other in their criminal and sometimes dangerous activity.
Yeah, I agree.
That's worrying.
Not to mention they think they're about as noble as the actual Underground Railroad.
You know, these people think that they're at the kind of crux of history and we're about to see a great awakening.
Things are changing fast.
We're fighting the deep state.
I mean, they have a sense of urgency kind of built in.
And so, Will, how was it?
I mean, first of all, how did you start to write this story in the first place?
And did you did you basically think you understood the story about eight or nine times like over where you're like, oh, fuck, more?
This feels like one of those.
It's a two part article.
Very well written.
I recommend everyone go check it out.
But it's it's also.
So much.
There's so much.
It's like a tank tread of just rolling situations and people and structures and ideologies and stuff like that.
So how did you get into this and did this like steal a month of your life or something?
Absolutely.
You know, basically there are fortunately maybe roughly a dozen activists who really track these people.
I have to thank Alexandria Goddard, who's kind of the head of this group.
And a lot of it springs from the Children's Crusade harassment of Kim Picassio, who's a lawyer in Florida that Homestead is obsessed with and, you know, just does all this insane stuff, field threatens her all the time.
And so basically, these people have created a really fantastic catalog of videos of the Children's Crusade, of all this kind of stuff.
And so, I mean, really, they tipped me off to this.
And just for months, You know, a crazy incident would happen, and then they would say, they would catalog.
Because another thing is, all these people, these Children's Crusade people, often when they commit a crime or something, they livestream themselves.
And so, like, that's a great resource, in a way.
You mentioned, you know, did I feel like, I mean, it just kept expanding, basically.
Were you surprised to see characters you had seen from other stories, like, just kind of pop up suddenly?
I mean, I was blown away how many names I recognized.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it was just, it was like, oh, it's the mole children guy.
Or, you know, reading a police report and it ties into something else.
I mean, the amount of calls and just, like, DMs I had to have with people to be like, holy shit, like, this thing is completely different than what I thought it was.
And it's a far bigger deal that I didn't realize.
Seems like some of them were fucking.
I don't...
Yeah, you know, I think there's certainly a lot of speculation about that online for people who have spent, like, a ton of time on this stuff.
But yeah, I mean, it is curious, I think, like, a lot of these people do, like, just seemingly put their lives on hold to, like, become co-fugitives or something.
Like, the medical student who was with Abzug, I mean, he basically had no real reason to flee.
Well, other than being a very tidy snack that you can put in your pocket when you're on the run.
There's sort of this recurring thread where he keeps being like, hey, I need to go back to medical school.
And so they're like, don't worry.
So they give Abzug like this fake diplomatic immunity passport.
And then they say to him, don't worry, we'll get a doctor to write you a note saying that you have like a serious medical issue and can't go back to school.
And he was like, oh, I don't know about that.
And then he's like stuck in this motel in Arkansas.
And then he hears the school has reported him as a missing person.
Oh, my God.
Oh, I feel bad for this kid, actually.
That's so great.
But anyways, Ramos, you know, we're Glad you're out of that situation.
Seems like a good developing kind of almost maybe like early Manson kind of vibes, early Helter Skelter going on here.
We can look forward to more of this, I believe.
Great.
Fantastic.
Well, you should go follow Will at Will Sommer, S-O-M-M-E-R, on Twitter.
And you should read his stuff at The Daily Beast and sign up for his Right Richter newsletter.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Short notice.
Thanks, Will.
Always a pleasure, man.
Hey, thanks for having me, guys.
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