Timeless Wisdom: Male/Female Hour: Fighting in Marriage
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Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.
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Yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
How you doing?
Dennis Prager here.
Thank you for being with me.
We explore life on this program, everything about it.
I got a great question for you, my friends.
This will interest two types of people, the married and the unmarried.
Hence, if I have it correct, it should interest everybody.
It'll interest the married because it's about marriage, and it'll interest the unmarried because they may want to know about this in anticipating marriage or having been married, what their marriage was about.
And this is one of those hours where your input will, in fact, make the hour.
I really will be more a facilitator and a learner than I will be offering my own views, which is most of the time what I do on the program.
So here it goes.
It's about marriage and marital fights.
There are two ways of looking at the issue of fights, of fighting within marriage.
One is it is absolutely inevitable.
You have two human beings living with each other daily for decades or many years, if not many decades.
The life is filled with difficult things.
People are working out the psychological issues from their childhood in their marriage.
People get sick.
Children cause problems.
Finances cause problems.
It is absolutely inevitable that two living, breathing human beings will fight.
And the question is, do you fight fairly?
And I guess the other question is, how often?
So listen carefully.
Listen carefully.
So that is one possible approach.
It is inevitable and learn to do it without being too hurtful.
But fighting is absolutely inevitable.
Here's another approach.
The home should be the haven from life's problems.
That is the view that one hopes for for a family.
Despite the fact that, of course, the family has so many issues, especially if there is a family and it's with children, and it's not just a married couple.
There is an inevitability of tension between people.
That is what happens.
Nevertheless, you look for your marriage to be a haven from this difficult world that we find ourselves living in.
And that the fewer fights, the better it speaks about the marriage.
That that's, you know, people will have differences, but you don't need to fight about it.
You don't have to have arguments.
So those are two absolutely legitimate ways of looking at it.
Let me give you a third.
I have been told of couples who fought all the time and were crazy about each other.
I have been told about couples who never fought and who had a totally dispassionate relationship, which may have worked for them, may absolutely have worked for them.
So that you may even have the position that, hey, for some couples, fighting is terrific.
For other couples, fighting is awful.
What is your position?
That's my question to you.
In your marriage, looking back at it, looking at it now, the place of fighting, is it a good thing?
Is it a bad thing?
Is it neutral?
1-8-Prager 776.
1-8-P-R-A-G-E-R-7-76.
That's 877-243-7776.
Do you fight a lot?
Do you fight rarely?
Do you know couples who do?
Do you think there is a relationship between fighting and a bad marriage or between not fighting and a good marriage?
What has been your experience in your own marriage and in the marriages that you know anything about?
What about your own parents?
It's a very complex subject because it may vary by individual.
Some people do very well with fighting.
Some people hate it.
Is there one fighter and one non-fighter in the family?
Is frequency of it an issue?
I remember a couple, may they rest in peace, I met them many years ago, but I knew them for a number of years.
And I would say they were married.
I know they were married well over 50 years.
And they seem to have a very, very loving marriage.
They seem to, there's a certain tranquility that seemed to reign when you saw them together.
That they, you know, they had done well with one another.
And we were talking about that once at a dinner.
And they both said to me that they had a policy that they would never go to bed angry at the other.
That that was just, that's a policy that they had adopted many years ago in their marriage.
And that it, so that even if there had been some tension, it could not last overnight.
It had to die by the closing of the eyes.
So these are the questions.
What is the place of fighting in marriage?
Or how about this?
Would you like a marriage where there were virtually never any fights?
Is that an ideal to aspire to?
There's a question for you.
Is that an ideal to aspire to?
All righty, over to Cleveland and Jamal.
Hello, Jamal, WHK, Dennis Prager.
Hello, Dennis.
I just wanted to call and say that I thought early on before I was married and then even when I was married at the first part of it that fighting shouldn't be.
And then I started learning, well, first of all, as children were contemplated, how in the world will they ever learn how to properly resolve issues where they did get in fights if they never saw us actually resolve them properly?
And one way that we have determined on whether or not we're getting any more successful as a couple is by actually how long the fight lasts, you know, at the time that we're having it, and how quickly we resolve the issue we were fighting about afterwards.
And one of the most embarrassing things I think that we've never really talked about after it happened was, and this was kind of recent, we got into an argument, and my wife came to me, you know, she choked up everything and she said, I'm coming to you to apologize for the argument and my part in it.
And I was fine at that point until she actually said, do you want to do the same?
And that's where I lost the deal.
Oh, that's awesome.
Well, no, no, no.
It's awesome to think about now, but at the time, it infuriated me because I said, no, don't you dare.
I said, you said you wanted to come and apologize.
Right.
Oh, no.
No, I was relating to your reaction, actually.
I didn't.
Yeah, no, I understand.
And yet, I understand what she's saying.
Look, let's both apologize and make up.
Right.
But if you both apologize.
But the thing is, if you both apologize, it means you're both equally wrong.
Ah, and I did not think that's right.
That's what disturbed you.
That's exactly.
I totally understood.
Absolutely.
All right.
There you go.
Thank you, Jamal.
And over to Jeff.
Jeff in Minneapolis on the Patriot.
Hi, Jeff, Dennis Prager.
Hi, Dennis.
How are you?
Okay.
I was listening, and very entertaining what the guy said last caller.
I had a similar thing with him as he did.
But my whole philosophy is it's inevitable.
You stick two human beings together at that much time, you're going to abound to disagree on something.
Well, does disagree, disagree, and fight are not the same.
Well, a lot of disagreements turned into fights.
Okay, I agree.
But a lot of disagreements.
Yeah, all right.
So I basically, my wife and I, we both come from previous marriages and we both adopted the philosophy just like our great country.
The whole thing is, is we can agree to disagree.
And we have to look at is it really worth there is a subject matter.
What is the biggest issue?
What is the biggest issue, or not the biggest, what is the most frequent source of fighting?
What subject?
Right now, it has to be with each other's children.
I have one son and she has one son.
Maybe the way that we raised our kids individually are not the same.
So we may have arguments about that.
Give me an example of an argument.
I guess the biggest one is the frequency of the video game craze.
My son likes to go outside.
Her son likes to spend 10, 12 hours in front of the video game.
10, 12?
And, you know, we've adopted the things to each his own.
I like to see kids go out and play, and she likes to see kids, you know, do what they want.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
I thank you.
I am going to ask all of you what you fight about, so get prepared.
Probably be a lot of comfort to a lot of couples listening.
We return in a moment to Dennis Prager Show.
This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
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Still going on down at the 15 now, back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Oh, is that beautiful?
Take five.
You're listening to the Dennis Prager show.
The reason it's called Take Five is because it's in five-quarter time.
Not because of Take Five Minutes to do it, to the best of my knowledge.
I'm Dennis Prager, and talking to you about marriage here.
Do any of you know, you know, this is a time I wish we had 100 lines because then I could really get to the exact topic that I would want at any given moment.
It's not any of your faults at all.
It's my fault because I'm asking so many different questions.
But do any of you know a marriage that has had virtually no fights or no fights?
Talking about fighting in marriage, is it good?
What do you fight over?
It's a secondary question.
I'm just curious if you do fight.
And here's yet another one.
And Alan, you know what?
It's worth putting all these down because they could all be variations for other hours.
So do you know any couple that has not fought?
That's a very fair, that's a very interesting question to me.
Also, is there a generalization that can be made about which sex is more unhappy about fighting?
I'm looking at the board.
You know, we began with men, and now we're getting a lot of women calling.
And I'm looking at the topics, and I think is it fair to say that it's because the reason for my hesitation is generalizations all have exceptions.
There may be so many exceptions here that a generalization is not, in fact, accurate.
But are women more at peace with fighting than men?
That's a question I'd love to have answered.
All righty.
And, well, you see, this is just remarkable.
All righty, let's go to Mary.
Mary in Chicago.
Hello, Mary.
Hello, Dennis.
Hi.
I have an opinion about this.
I think fighting is a necessary and good requirement of a strong marriage.
I've been married a long time, 23 years.
And I think it relieves tension that is a normal and necessary part of relationships.
Are you married?
23 years.
Okay.
Are you happy in your marriage?
I'm very happily married.
How often do you fight?
I think my husband would tell you the same thing.
How often do you fight?
Oh, I'd say we probably fight maybe every six or eight weeks we'll have an issue that pops up.
Every six or eight weeks?
Every six or eight weeks is not a lot.
No, it's not a lot, but you know, we can have our doozies.
Oh, really?
Doozies?
You do.
What is the subject that generally arouses a doozy?
Well, it usually has to do with extended family or issues that we differ about dealing with one of our children or has to do with the pace of our busy life and something that's been neglected that needs attention.
But the point I wanted to make is that I think that good relationships, good marriages have rules for fighting, and they may be tacit rules.
They may be rules that evolve over time.
But I think that in order to have healthy fighting that's necessary for a good marriage, you have to both have an understanding of what those roles are.
And I think those kinds of roles...
Did you ever go to bed angry, or are they all resolved by bedtime?
Oh, God, no.
I go to bed angry.
I sometimes feel like I have to sleep on it to clarify and to which brings me to one of my rules: that, you know, when I fight, I have to struggle to live up to the rule of being rational.
I can't be emotional.
That's my Achilles heel.
Well, you're a female.
Another one is to be a fair fighter.
I mean, I can't be thrown in the kitchen sink when the issue is the, you know, the bathtub.
I have to.
Very good.
That's very admirable.
Very admirable.
Thank you.
That's right.
That's a big deal if you follow rules.
It's another subject, Alan.
Rules for fighting.
That's good.
Those are good ones.
Oh, rational.
Oh, God bless rationality.
Yep, that's a big help.
Also, also in Chicago is Susan.
Hello, Susan on W-I-N-D.
Hi.
I think, I agree with your last caller.
I think fighting is probably a healthy thing for marriage.
How often do you fight?
Oh, well.
Tell the truth.
We argue.
You could say every day.
We argue every day, and we probably fight once a week, and then we probably have a blowout about every six weeks.
So do you think that that's a lot?
No, I guess.
You know, I've known him for 18 years.
You know, we've been married for 15 now.
You met in high school?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, we got into a fight the night we met.
We got into a huge fight the night before our wedding.
Got into a fight on our honeymoon.
And I don't know.
We argue, but yet, you know, we don't want to live without each other.
My kids one day were a little worried that maybe, you know, we might get divorced sometime.
And I told them not to worry about it.
I said, that's just my relationship with your dad.
You know, and as much as we fight, sometimes when we get along, we get along really well.
Well, I thank you for your honesty.
It was an important call, Susan.
Thank you.
Okay, I'll leave that call there.
And let me go to New Jersey.
And Carol, where are you in New Jersey, Carol?
I am in Haddon Heights, New Jersey.
Hadden Heights.
What an honor, Dennis.
Thank you.
It's such a pleasure to be able to speak with you.
That's very sweet.
Thank you.
Well, what's about you and fighting?
40 years of marriage.
First 20 years of marriage to have a calm, happy, pleasant household, we did not fight at all.
And the reason we didn't fight was because I chose not to fight about anything.
I just simply agreed and did whatever he wanted to do for 20 years.
And then decided I don't like this.
And then the last 20 years, it's been a big battle almost every day, constantly, about every issue.
I'm the one that changed.
He is exactly the same from the day that I met him.
And I chose to make a change.
And I wasn't real fair about it.
I mean, I really came on heavy with, you know, not liking these decisions, not liking what's taking place.
And I have been fighting a lot ever since.
Has it taken a toll on the happiness of the marriage?
I think it has.
I think it has.
It was, I was not as happy for 20 years with the calm and that kind of thing, but he was perfectly happy.
And I think he's not as happy now.
I'm happier that I'm saying what I feel and saying what I believe.
Is there one subject that tends to dominate the fighting?
Definitely.
What?
Definitely.
The way I, he chose not to be the disciplinarian of the children.
Uh-huh, children.
Thank you, Carol.
We'll continue.
This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
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Now, back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
All right, everybody, this is Dennis Prager.
The subject is fighting and marriage.
And so far, pretty much, well, I think except for one, everybody called it has a fair number of fights in marriage.
I don't know what this does to you if you're married.
Does it comfort you knowing how much fighting is going on?
Or does it depress you?
1-8 Prager 776.
I totally understand intellectually, I'll be very open with you.
I totally understand intellectually that of course people will fight given the strains of life and two different autonomous human beings gathered under the same roof who have to relate on so many levels over so many years with so many issues.
But still, it's painful.
It's painful to hear the amount of fighting that does, I think, routinely go on.
I think, therefore, it's worth asking what it's over.
See, a lot of times, boy, family and children, do you hear how often that crops up?
I once did this as a subject, what I'm about to tell you, and I should do it again because it was so long ago.
You know, for those of you who don't know me well, I'd like to tell you I am more committed to truth than to anything, including my own agenda, which I have a very strong, very, I mean, I have very strong values, and I like to promote them.
But they have to be promoted on the basis of a grasp of reality, not on what I would like to be, but rather what is.
That's why I got so angry when the professor, the president of Harvard had to apologize for saying that women's and men's aptitudes in science may be different because of different brain characteristics.
We may wish that that were not true, but it's important to know if it's true.
That's all.
First, we have to know the truth.
And I remember when I was a bachelor or single, I don't know what the word is.
I didn't marry till I was 32.
Dear friend of mine worked with me at an institute where many, many couples came to study.
That's why I came out to California originally, Joseph Tolushkin.
He used to make the point.
He'd say, Dennis, we were both bachelors at the time, so we had no vested interest in this.
And we were both very, and still are, very traditional-oriented in the belief that people should have children.
But he said, Dennis, have you noticed that it seems that the happiest couples here at the Institute tend not to have kids?
And I couldn't disagree.
I had not noted it.
He noted it.
And to me, having kids is, you know, you don't have richer things than that in life.
I mean, there are many rich things.
It's not the only rich thing.
But that's certainly, you know, you don't get richer in experience and in love and so on.
But they do, they make marriage.
They are challenges to marriages.
They are.
That's a fact of life that couples don't know.
It's very hard to know that before you have a child.
So that's why you keep hearing that and family.
I mean, you know, the extended family.
Well, his parents and my parents or her parents and my parents.
All righty.
So let's see here.
And let's go to some more of your calls.
1-8 Prager776 and Sheldon in West Hills, Los Angeles, California.
Hello, Sheldon, Dennis Prager.
Hello, Sheldon.
Hello, Dennis.
Hi.
Yeah, I actually have two stories.
One is a marriage of 30 years in which there was no fighting because there was no real commitment or passion between us.
But we ended up bickering a lot and making each other miserable that way.
Subsequent to that, I'm now engaged.
Well, how old are you?
I'm 57.
You were married 30 years?
Yes.
When did you marry at 11?
No, I was very young.
I was in my early 20s.
Wow.
Okay.
And now, how long are you married now?
I'm not married.
I'm currently engaged.
Okay.
Go on.
And what happened in this relationship is I found out to my fiancé that really fighting isn't the way to go because when you go into a disagreement where you believe there has to be a winner or a loser, that undermines the relationship.
And in the beginning, I was incredibly critical and controlling.
That's an important lesson.
Don't fight to win.
Interesting.
Very, we'll be back.
All righty, everybody.
This is Dennis Prager.
Tough subject, tough emotionally.
The question of fighting and marriage.
What are your views on it?
There is the argument, and a very understandable one, that it is inevitable.
Of course, I think the question there becomes over what, how often, especially how often, I think, but it may vary individually.
People who fight a lot and just crazy about each other.
At least that's what I'm told.
Fighting a lot is not my form of love expression, personally.
But I truly believe that there are couples who bicker and who could not live without each other.
Constantly bicker.
I don't mean, you know, at times do.
And should one even aspire?
This is the question, too.
Is it foolish to even aspire to have such a marriage?
Is that silly?
Is it unrealistic?
Is it romantic?
Okay, over, oh, yeah.
So, all right, our guy in LA, he had some good stuff.
All right, I thank you for that call.
Parker, Colorado.
Parker, Colorado, KNUS, Tammy.
Hello, Tammy.
Dennis Prager.
Hi, Dennis.
Hi.
I don't know what it's like to really fight.
Not that I would want to.
My parents were fighters, and I didn't enjoy it at all.
And I've got real fortunate with my husband.
I would have to say, I'm serious, at least three times a year.
How many?
Three?
Three.
I couldn't even name them if I had to try and think of what they were.
But I know we have several in a year, an outburst where the two of us will both respond and viciously fight.
But, you know, what really helps, I think, is several things is when you have a lot of things in common.
The way we raise our kids, we completely agree with.
In religion, we're both on the same wavelength.
On politics, the same.
So we have good, great conversations and debates, but not fights.
And I don't know that I could have it any other way because I'm so spoiled without fighting.
And when I ask my husband, you know, why don't I just fight about this?
Or, you know, I get sometimes I feel a little lonely because he just won't fight with me.
But he says to me one time, I will only fight about the things that are real important to fight about.
And I don't feel that on a daily basis the way you clean the house or how you want to decorate it or what you wear is important enough to create a fight.
And so rarely does it take something to get him mad.
You know, finances.
Okay, so we, oops, we accidentally spend too much and we talk about it, but I guess he trusts me enough.
He says, you know, I trust that what you're doing with the money is all right.
You may have spent too much, but, you know, we all have equal rights in the way we want this relationship to go and what we'd like to do.
I guess he has to be able to do that.
On the three fights of the year, do you tend to be the one who will start them?
Yes.
Yes, and it's really about things getting done.
Not really the money.
We kind of trust each other on that.
The kids, again, I pretty much do the authority.
Do you have a close female friend?
No.
Okay.
Alan, that's another great subject.
I want to talk about married women and close female friends.
How many do they have, if they have any?
No, I actually have a lot of male friends that are close.
Uh-huh.
Very interesting.
Did you have female friends before you were married?
Yeah, several.
All right.
Tammy, thank you so much.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Appreciate it very much.
Bonnie.
Bonnie in Dallas, case guy.
Hello, Bonnie Dennis Prager.
Hello.
Hi.
I have been married for 28 years, and we hardly ever fight.
And I think a lot of it depends on your personality.
But the main thing is you have to have respect for the other person.
And if you do that, you don't want to tear them down.
So you don't want to yell at them and say mean things to each other.
One of our big rules is that we have a tendency not to bring up a subject if we're mad.
We calm down before we bring it up.
Then we can discuss it and solve the problem.
That's a great rule.
I'm going to, Alan, that's another one.
I've got more topics out of this hour than any hour I ever broadcast, I think.
That's a great idea.
Rules for fighting, and that's a good rule.
Put that down, Alan, please.
And that is don't say anything when you're angry.
Right.
And a woman earlier said that her parents fought.
Yeah.
She didn't like to fight.
My parents have been married for 60 years, and they're very happy, but they bicker all the time, and it drives me nuts.
To be around people who bicker all the time, you rather get a beasting.
And so I think my husband and I both are the way that we just, to us, our home life is our refuge from the world.
Well, I'm with you.
That's what it ought to be.
Thank you.
Thank you.
That's what I believe.
That's the ideal.
I mean, it's obviously, at least half the time, it is not achieved.
And a lot of the other half, talking about divorce and non-divorce, it isn't either.
But that is the hope.
Thank you, Bonnie.
And over to Wesley in Colorado Springs, K-N-Z-T.
Hi.
Hey, Dennis, how you doing?
Okay, thanks.
Great.
It's a privilege to talk to you.
I've been listening to you for about a year and a half now and just really enjoy and appreciate the way you prefer clarity.
Thank you very much.
Listen to the other person's arguments or their point of view, and you respect it.
I just really like that.
Thank you.
Well, my wife and I have been married for five years, and we've never had a fight.
And you're getting divorced next week.
No, not at all.
We have a wonderful marriage.
We just really enjoy being around each other.
But, you know, we have disagreements, but we've never raised our voices at one another.
Uh-huh.
And why is that?
Why do you think you've never raised your voices?
Well, what we try to do is we're both Christians, and so we try to prefer the other above ourselves as far as, you know, I think a lot of times when we fight and things like that, it's because of selfishness, and we're thinking of ourselves more than the other person.
And so we just try to really just prefer the other one above ourselves.
And do you have any children?
No children.
Well, Wesley, I hope it continues when the children come.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, we waited five years and we don't really have a desire yet to have we love children, but just not ready for them ourselves yet.
Right.
No, I understand that.
Believe me.
Thank you, Wesley.
It's an honor to speak to you too.
Final segment, if you want to get in, you've heard this.
What do you think, folks?
And by the way, here's another one.
The women start.
Did I ask that already?
Do women start more of the fights?
What do you say to that, ladies?
1-8 Prager 776, the Dennis Prager Show.
This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
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Still going, Rocky, with the 50!
Now, back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
All right, I'm going to get as many as I can here, so get to the point quickly if you can.
Dennis Prager here on fighting and marriage.
Is it inevitable?
How often do you do it?
Are there any couples who don't?
Is that the ideal not to fight?
These are the questions that I am posing.
San Diego, Cindy, KCBQ.
Hi.
Hi, Dennis.
Hi.
My husband plays the piano, and he knows my monthly cycle, and that's the time that I pick up on, and we have our fights.
And so he plays, he goes over to the piano and he starts singing the Beatles song.
Instead of P.S., I love you, he starts singing PMS, I love you.
And does it make you laugh?
Sometimes it makes me laugh, and sometimes it just makes me angrier.
But pretty much it takes care of it within about 10 minutes.
Well, he is good.
My husband is a lovely person.
Wow.
How long are you married?
17 years in April.
Is this your first marriage?
It's my only marriage.
You don't like the word first.
Well, you know what?
I probably would never ever want to date again.
So because dating is so icky.
Dating is icky.
I think that that's a fair statement.
It is icky.
You're a pleasure, Cindy.
Call me up when you have PMS, all right?
I'll do that.
I may fight with you.
That's right.
You'll fight with me.
That's good.
And then I'll have her husband play the song.
I would love that.
I really enter your lives, and you enter mine.
It's really remarkable.
We could really do that here, you know, just in effect.
All right, Cindy's, it's that time of month for Cindy, and let's have Jerry there play the song, or, of course, whatever his name is.
And let's see, this is a crackup.
Centennial, Ohio, Ohio, Colorado.
Don, hello, Don, Dennis Prager.
Hi, Dennis.
Hi.
I just wanted to say, you know, I was married for 20 years.
And during that time, whenever my wife was upset or she was brewing on a problem, she usually brewed on it most of the night and then would get me up in the middle of the night just to argue with me.
She would wake you up.
She would wake you up in the middle of the night to argue with you.
Yeah.
Why did you stay 20 years?
I was doing it for the kids, but it just didn't work.
There was no way.
I was so unhappy.
It was unbelievable.
Did your kids know you were unhappy?
They probably did.
And they, you know, she never really was discreet about it, so they heard most of the time.
Oh, God.
That's painful stuff.
I wish you much happiness now.
Juan, Debbie, actually two Debbie's up there, and the others, I would have loved to have heard from you.
Email me.
Keep it brief because I have a lot of emails, but I love to hear from you at DennisPrager.com.
Tomorrow in Los Angeles, I'm at Sammy's Camera 1-3.
Join me at Sammy's Camera if you're in the Southern California area tomorrow, 1-3, and I will talk to you about your cameras.