What subjects are the most likely to wreck your family Christmas dinner or Thanksgiving dinner?
So this was published right before Thanksgiving.
And then I did a show on this.
That's one of the great beauties of talk radio.
I was going to say, this is a tangent, but it's worth just noting, you know how lucky you are.
To talk to all these wonderful people that you get to interview.
I do?
Julie Hartman?
Yes.
Oh, yes, of course.
It is a gift of this profession.
Gift.
That many of them are terrific people.
Oh, absolutely.
And callers.
I mean, when I guest host your show, I learn so much from callers.
So I bounce this thing off callers.
So I'm going to ask you, this is great.
What do you think, maybe they're wrong.
I'm not, this was not.
You know, given by God to Moses, but maybe they're right.
What do you think they listed as the single greatest dinner wrecker subject?
And who's they again?
I don't know.
New York Times, Wall Street Journal.
No, no.
Believe it or not, this was neutral.
I mean, I would say politics.
That's what I would have said.
It's exactly what I would have said.
Correct.
Or religion, not because I... No, that was lower on the list.
It was on the list, but it was lower than politics.
The number one thing is politics.
So what did they say?
That was number two.
I was actually surprised at number one, but when I bounced it off listeners, it was a lot of verification.
Family issues.
Oh my gosh, well...
I mean, that's a given, but I wouldn't...
Well, why is it a given?
I mean, it's not a given.
You guessed politics, and I guessed politics.
I just think that is so off-limits that people wouldn't even...
Yeah, but it's not, but that's the point.
If it's the biggest single problem subject at a holiday meal, it's not a given.
That's why it's so interesting.
And to you and me, maybe I can't speak for you.
Seriously, in this case, I don't know.
I said...
Who the hell is going to raise family issues at their Thanksgiving or Christmas meal?
You would think so.
What kind of nut?
You're going to bring up crappy family problems at this once or twice a year lunch or dinner?
This is a whole Dennis and Julie episode onto its own, but there are some people in the world who just can't control themselves.
In many different ways.
That is a good...
In many, many different ways.
That's an example.
That is an example.
And you know what?
We tend to think of people who lack control as those who overeat, those who overdrink, those who are addicted to cigarettes.
But no, there are people who cannot emotionally regulate themselves or cannot read the room and put...
Other people.
I have not shaken your hand.
I know.
We've never done this on Dennis and Julie.
In two years of this.
I know.
That's a moment.
That is such a wonderfully placed point.
Oh.
Well, it's huge.
And as I get older, it's endlessly fascinating to me to observe those people where the desire to pick a fight.
To be combative, to be contrarian is something that has control over them and not something that they can control.
But you made, you're superb, but you added a double which caused me to shake your hand.
Can't read the room.
That is such a big deal, can't read the room.
Like, you're not, wait a minute.
You're not aware that if you raise that subject, it's the end of the joy of this holiday dinner?
And I used to think that...
Well, it's interesting because I think there are some people who really just have a blind spot.
Like, they don't realize that bringing up that subject is going to...
Wreak havoc on the dinner or cause other people to be uncomfortable.
But I actually think that there are just as many, if not more, people who actually do realize that it will wreak havoc on the dinner and do it anyway.
And are pleased to do that.
Yes.
And it's this weird, like, I don't know.
We would need Dr. Marmer here to add to the conversation for what the psychoanalytic reason for such a behavior is.
I marvel at it.
I know you so well, and obviously I know me so well, and I know that both of us, we are constantly surveilling ourselves.
Yes, and the environment.
Yes, am I talking too long?
Are people bored?
Are people uncomfortable?
Do they want me to, you know?
And you do it in a good way.
I do it in an intensely self-critical way.
But the point is, I think the definition of manners is making other people feel comfortable.
And especially at a Thanksgiving dinner or holiday dinner, you have to be aware of that.
So what you're saying as well, this is really a worthy discussion, you're saying as well, and I totally agree, the individual who raises some family issue is a narcissist.
I care about it.
I don't care if it ruins this meal for all eight of you.
I... Well, or even there might be a worse, maybe I want to ruin this meal.
And by the way, I want to make clear why I think that is a possibility.