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Nov. 10, 2023 - Dennis Prager Show
01:24:25
Debate Night
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Dennis Prager here.
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Hello, everybody.
Dennis Prager here.
Thank you for being with me.
I'm going to get to the debate in a moment.
I want to tell you something I told my friend and producer.
There's no greater voice of moral clarity functioning today than Douglas Murray, in case you're not familiar with him.
He has been on our show a number of times.
I did a fireside chat with him for PragerU.
He has done PragerU videos.
Has he done more than one PragerU video?
Yeah, a few.
And even if I had no connection with him, I would say this.
I will play for you a fair amount of his interview and some degree of debate with Pierce Morgan.
On the BBC. Not the BBC. What is Pierce on?
Sky News?
What is he on?
Sky News.
The whole issue, as you know, if you know me at all, has been moral clarity.
People don't like moral clarity because it forces you on occasion to take positions that are just not popular.
It's an interesting question for me.
I always say it's an interesting question.
It's one of my sayings, and I don't like to have sayings like that.
There's nothing wrong with it.
I just don't want to lapse into a cliché, even if I invented it for myself.
But I can't help it, because there really are some interesting questions.
But here's one.
What is it most people yearn for?
So I have so often said people yearn...
Do not yearn to be free, they yearn to be taken care of.
If that were not the case, there would be no popularity to socialism, Marxism, or communism.
People yearn to be taken care of more than they yearn to be free.
They also yearn to be liked, which is not a bad thing, but in and of itself it's not bad.
What price will you pay to be liked?
That is the question.
It's like the woman who called my show years ago.
What do I tell my daughter?
If she writes what she believes, she's a conservative, and if she writes what she thinks, in one of her papers, she will get a lower grade.
And then won't get into a prestigious graduate school.
Or was she in high school and she won't get into a prestigious college?
I don't remember which it was.
And I remember telling her that...
I'm not telling her what to tell her daughter, but I'm saying what I would say to my son.
I don't have a daughter.
And I would say, if you compromise for a grade in high school, when will you stop compromising?
If you do X or Y to be popular, what will you not do to be popular?
So, last night was the debate.
Another debate.
And what I have is a poll here that DeSantis won.
And I'll tell you what poll it was, actually.
Okay.
Let's see.
What poll was it?
Yep.
Rod DeSantis wins the battle.
This is from the Daily Mail.
Wins the battle with Nikki Haley.
Florida governor gets huge boost as Daily Mail debate poll reveals viewers rated his performance far better than his closest rival, and the majority think he is the best candidate to take on Trump.
I'm not saying it's accurate.
I'm merely reporting to you.
On the other hand, my producer believes That Nikki Haley, correct?
You felt Nikki Haley did best.
But I don't know if there's a but here.
Your hesitation to say DeSantis did best is that he's not charismatic.
So clearly then you're implying that Nikki Haley is more so.
Yes.
Right.
Okay.
I just want to make clear where you're coming from.
My own position has been consistent, which doesn't make it right.
You could be consistently wrong.
The left is consistently wrong.
But my own position has been on wavering all I care is defeating that destructive party.
It's been destructive since its founding, the Democratic Party.
Because it is now a left-wing, not a liberal party.
For a liberal party.
I wouldn't have much passion on it.
Liberals are naive, but they're not bad.
The left is bad.
The pincer movement that is destroying the West or trying to destroy the West is fundamentalist Islam and leftism.
That's why they are aligned.
That is why you have the idiocy of queers for Palestine.
It's a real idiocy, since there's an LGBTQIA plus parade in Tel Aviv.
There is none in any Palestinian area.
To be a gay activist and be pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel is almost inexplicable
unless there is an overriding concern that is greater than what is good for me as an LGBTQIA+.
And, that there is the destruction of the West.
So frequently Israel is described negatively as an outpost of the West and the Middle East.
Hmm.
As if that's a bad thing.
Isn't that interesting that people think that's a bad thing?
You're an outpost of Western civilization?
So aren't you implying that not a single Arab country in the Middle East is an outpost of Western civilization?
Yeah, that's the implication.
So let me ask you, an Arab country that adopted Western values and continued to have Arab culture and Islam as a religion, Are you saying that Islam is incompatible with Western values?
If it's a knock on Israel that it is an outpost of Western civilization in the Muslim world, then you are in fact saying Islam is incompatible with Western civilization.
That's the statement.
Hmm.
I didn't quite understand, and Vivek Rawaswamy has been at PragerU events, done PragerU video.
He's been also on a fireside chat, and we have great affection for him.
I didn't quite understand his comment to Nikki Haley that she can't criticize TikTok because her daughter...
Use TikTok?
What was the point that he was making?
That when he said her daughter used TikTok?
I assume that the only possible reason for raising it is you're hypocritical.
So you can't attack TikTok if your own daughter has used TikTok or uses TikTok.
Wow.
I found that odd.
By the way, how does he know?
I'm not saying he doesn't know.
She may be on TikTok.
Oh, she may have a presence on TikTok.
Oh, I see.
You don't know it for sure.
That's an easy way.
Right.
The only question is who would be the best candidate to defeat.
I don't believe Joe Biden will be.
I would be willing to bet.
I almost never bet on the future.
That Joe Biden will not be the nominee.
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I call on you, I'm afraid.
I call on you, I'm afraid.
Do we have the Douglas Murray...
- What do you mean, you're working on that?
Right now, pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel means that you want Israel obliterated.
That's what it means.
Tell me what pro-Palestinian rally has not chanted, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, which means Israel will be no longer.
They don't give you the rest of the sentence.
Palestine will be free of Jews.
I love when they say, oh, we want one state where we don't care, Jew.
This is their propagandists.
This is not what they actually believe.
But nevertheless, Jew, Christian, Muslim will live in peace.
Because Christians are doing so well in the Arab world.
Jews are already gone.
But how are Christians doing?
Douglas Murray made a fascinating point to Piers Morgan that Gaza could have been Singapore.
That's the term he used on a couple of occasions.
Had it been free and aligned with Israel, And democratic and allowed the money, the staggering sums of money that have poured into that benighted area of land.
They use it to murder Jews, not to help Palestinians.
They slaughtered Fatah.
Nobody cares.
I say these things, but how many people care?
The record of Hezbollah.
The moral record of the Iranian regime and Hezbollah and ISIS. It's like, not to mention Hamas.
It doesn't matter to people.
They're pro-Hamas as if it's a good group of humans.
We have a recording of a Hamas monster calling up his parents, speaking to his father on his phone from Israel, gushing with pride, I kill ten Jews.
Tell mom, tell mom I kill ten Jews.
The father is just ecstatic.
By the way, it's never Israelis.
They don't even use the term almost ever.
It's Jews.
Oh, we're not anti-Jewish.
And then the group that produces more self-hatred than any other group, Jews, have all these...
I mean, it's not a gigantic group, but it's not tiny.
There's a sick Orthodox group called the Ture Karta, and there's a sick secular left-wing group, Jewish Voice for Peace.
Boy, what the left has done to the word peace.
Whenever I hear peace activist, I assume it's not always true, but I assume it's a fool.
Is there any noble term, the left is not raped?
Can't think of any.
So it's the pincer movement, fundamentalist Islam and leftism.
Will the Jews survive those?
And will the West survive?
Depends on what you do.
Every one of you listening and every one of our countries.
People don't want to fight.
It's amazing.
How many Harvard seniors?
So I'm taking the oldest college students, seniors, the most prestigious college, Harvard.
How many of them know about the slaughter of the Charlie Hebdo editors?
I would be shocked if more than one out of ten.
I would be shocked if one out of ten.
And that's recent.
Where Muslims just went in and slaughtered the entire staff of...
Not the entire staff, but they killed them.
The entire staff that they found there.
Well, yeah.
Or terribly injured.
How many...
Look up the number, and that way I can be totally precise.
Because they felt that Charlie Hebdo, which is a very long-standing French satire magazine.
They deserved to be killed, to be murdered, because they had published pictures of drawings, really, drawings of Muhammad.
By the way, all through medieval Islamic history are drawings of Muhammad.
But let's say it isn't.
Let us say it is forbidden for...
People that Islam forbids any drawing, because it's imaginary, we don't know how he looked, any drawing of Muhammad.
Why does that apply to non-Muslims?
That's what I mean by fundamentalist Islam.
Our laws apply to you.
Twelve people were...
Twelve were murdered that day?
Eleven injured.
Eleven injured, yeah.
So that's 23 people.
I mean, how many people were working there?
Yeah.
Yes.
What about the beheadings?
Remember the poor, were they Egyptians?
They just had them kneel by the seashore and cut their throats?
Remember that?
Yeah, that was ISIS. That was ISIS, yeah.
Amount of atrocities committed by fundamentalist Muslims that allows people to say there might be a moral problem with fundamentalist Islam.
Right?
The fear of the left is Christian nationalism.
So I'd like you to hear an excerpt that I chose from Nikki Haley from last night.
Right.
Got that, Sean?
From NBC News.
Oh, yeah, yeah, hold on, hold on.
Wait one second.
That's correct.
It's not from the debate.
It's from an interview on NBC News.
The first part is from the debate, and then NBC News.
All right?
In the last debate she made in front of me for actually joining TikTok while her own daughter was actually using the app for a long time.
So you might want to take care of your family first.
Leave my daughter out of your voice.
The next generation of Americans are using it.
And that's actually the point.
You have her supporters crapping her up.
That's fine.
Here's the truth.
You're too easy.
One of the more fiery moments of tonight's debate.
Welcome back to our coverage of the Republican presidential debate.
I'm Tom Yamas.
And I'm Hallie Jackson.
We've got the candidates still making their way through their spin room here in Miami.
Joining us now is somebody who is one of the biggest targets of the night, former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley.
Ambassador Haley, thank you for being with us.
Thanks for having me.
Listen, this debate was largely focused on foreign policy, but I have to start with that moment that we just saw.
We've got to start with scum and these attacks from Vivek Ramaswamy against you here.
Reflect on that moment, what was going through your head?
And help us understand, do you dislike him?
Look, I'm a mom.
I'm a mom.
So the second that you go and you start saying something about my 25-year-old daughter, I'm going to get my back up.
But this is, it's not even about the personal part.
There are serious differences that I have with him.
You know, he doesn't think that we need to be helping Israel.
He sides with Putin and thinks that Ukraine doesn't matter.
He's okay with giving Taiwan to China.
There's so many issues.
He doesn't think America needs friends.
That's dangerous.
I think he has a dangerous foreign policy that we can't afford, and I think he would make America less safe.
He called you Dick Cheney in three inch heels.
Do you think that was sexist?
By the way, hold on one second.
I found that question so stupid, it took my breath away.
This is an NBC reporter.
Did you find that sexist?
What does that mean?
What does the word sexist mean?
I really do, folks, I'm sorry, I want to analyze it to show you how sick the world of the left's ideas, how the sickest have permeated normative people.
This guy may not even be a leftist.
Was it sexist to say you're Dick Cheney in three-inch heels?
Why?
Because it implies that women wear three-inch heels?
Wasn't he saying you're a female Dick Cheney?
Isn't that what he was saying?
So maybe it's anti-trans or it's anti-non-binary, but how is it sexist?
Implying that women wear three-inch heels and men don't?
Is that it?
These moments are so worthy of noting the sickness.
The question was deeply stupid.
As a rule, I am opposed to stupidity.
It's a bias I have, and we're bathing in it.
Okay, we continue.
Don't even give him the time of day.
He has proven that he is just not worthy of being President of the United States.
Everybody knows it.
Everybody sees it.
There's so many things that he said that were just uncalled for tonight.
But, you know, I'll let people decide that.
We've got real serious issues.
We've got to talk about what's happening.
We've got wars all around the world.
We've got an economy that's in shambles.
We've got a border that's open.
And we've got a lot of families that are concerned.
So let's talk about some of those issues here, including what we just heard from with our colleague Ryan Nobles, who is live in New Hampshire, talking with voters there.
I know you were listening when one of those voters talked about you and your answer as it relates to abortion access and what you would push for here.
You were, it seems, pushing the pragmatic in your response about what can actually get passed in Washington and what cannot.
Do you believe that your competitors on stage are missing something in the dynamic here?
Well, I think the fellas deal with this differently.
I look at it from the perspective that this is personal for every woman and every man in America.
I had a roommate who was raped in college.
I wouldn't wish on anyone what she went through wondering if she was pregnant.
What I'll tell you is I'm totally pro-life in every way whatsoever.
I just don't judge someone for being pro-choice anymore than I want them to judge me for being pro-life.
So when you're looking at this, I don't want to see this divide.
Women don't want to be divided over this.
I want this in the hands of the people.
I want it at the state level.
But if you're going to talk about a federal bill.
This is a very important subject.
I addressed it yesterday.
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So I'm playing for you Nikki Haley on NBC News.
And...
Nikki Haley is right about abortion.
She's pro-life.
I'm pro-life.
If we keep pushing for laws with no compromise, like, for example, no exceptions for incest or rape, and At any time in pregnancy, the best is the enemy of the better.
That is one of the most important rules if you care about moral improvement as opposed to being pure.
On this planet, purity is not possible.
Not if you want to do good.
If you want to be perfect, that's not available to us.
So I'll continue with Nikki Haley.
At least be honest with the American people.
Don't make them, you know, you've got Democrats making people feel scared that something's going to happen, and you've got Republicans trying to push something that's not even realistic.
So I'll ask you the same question that I asked Governor DeSantis before you.
Should Republicans even be pushing a federal bill at this point, in your view?
I think we always want to save as many babies as we can and support as many moms as we can.
And so I think the reason why I talked about consensus is let's see where we can get 60 Senate votes.
Because anything would save more babies.
It would do more.
And so, and as we're seeing state laws, you know, come up, it's just like I said, we don't want to see a woman who gets an abortion get put in jail or get the death penalty.
There's certain things that I think there's a place, but there has to be consensus if that's going to happen.
Ambassador, let's turn to Israel and Hamas.
By the way, we'll get to that in a moment.
See, as the...
I'm a presenter of, I think, the most widely viewed pro-life video ever made, the one I did for PragerU.
I think I have good credentials on this issue.
So people need to be honest, which is not easy.
Honest with themselves, that's the hardest.
If you want to be pure and not compromise, you should be for arresting doctors and women who undergo abortions.
I mean, if it's murder, why would that form of murder not be prosecutable?
The very fact that pro-life folks have acknowledged that we don't want to arrest women who do this.
And 99% or 90% don't want to arrest doctors who do it, or at least not charge them with accessory to homicide, or indeed maybe they do, means that there is a built-in acknowledgement that we're still compromising.
You don't get any good done as a general rule.
There are exceptions without some degree of compromise.
The fight against the left is not only over abortion.
And if we keep losing elections because women, and I think incorrectly, are so adamant about absolute pro-choice, even through the third trimester.
I mean, that's an act of amoral fanaticism that is...
Quite remarkable.
But you have to deal with the reality that you have.
If the Democrats win, teachers unions win, you have more drag queen story hours.
That's also a moral issue to be concerned with, not only abortion.
If the left wins, kids are hurt.
Okay, we continue.
For saying, end Hamas.
Former Governor Chris Christie says, what does that even mean?
My question to you is this.
Israel obviously suffered a horrific terrorist attack.
Innocent Israelis were killed.
They've been kidnapped, likely being tortured in that tunnel system there in Gaza.
Can you destroy Hamas without destroying Gaza?
Essentially, is there any way to do this without all those innocent Palestinians now dying as well?
Look, I mean, we've always focused on civilians versus terrorists.
I think that's important.
That's what America does.
That's what Israel does.
That's what civilized countries do.
But the reality is, if 1400 Americans had been brutally murdered that way, and Americans taken hostage, would America be okay with that?
We would not be okay with that.
What we have to remember is, here you had 1400 people, but we had 33 Americans that were murdered.
We have Americans being held hostage.
This is not just personal for Israel, it's personal for America.
And so when you look at that, we have to eliminate Hamas.
I dealt with this every day.
What I can tell you is Israel is not going to do this without thinking of every single human life.
The problem is Hamas does not think of every single human life.
I've been in those tunnels.
And those tunnels are underneath hospitals.
They're underneath playgrounds.
They're underneath schools.
Because they use women and children as human shields.
The best way to save people in Gaza is to eliminate Hamas.
Because they should not live under that rule.
So no ceasefire, no humanitarian pause.
You would not encourage that.
You would not fight for that if you were president right now.
If you do a pause, if you do a ceasefire, people die.
Because we've done this before.
And what Hamas did before, they killed Israeli soldiers and they took more Israeli soldiers hostage.
That's what would happen.
They refuel to try and get ready so they can shoot more rockets.
What they need to do is they need to let out every hostage they have.
And we're not going to talk to them until they release every single one of those hostages.
President Ambassador Nikki Haley, thank you so much for your time here after this.
She knows her stuff.
Barack Obama, what a shameful individual.
The damage he did to this country, the damage he did to black America and white America and America.
His moral idiocies now, like he, you know, sort of a plague on all their houses.
You know what I have not heard, and I devour this stuff, unfortunately.
I have not heard anyone say what Israel should do who opposes what Israel is doing.
What should Israel do?
We'll be back.
Hi, everybody.
I'm Dennis Prager, Emma in Costa Rica.
Hello.
Hey Dennis, it's Emma from Hayden, Idaho.
My husband and I are traveling down here.
Oh, you're in Costa Rica.
We're in Costa Rica, yeah.
We're traveling around here and we went to a bakery and it's a very international spot.
And the waitress that was waiting on us, she was very beautiful and we were kind of talking back and forth.
And I asked her where she was from.
And she stalled.
I said, what's the matter?
She goes, I don't like to tell Americans where I'm from.
And I said, why?
She said, I'm going to cry.
You seem like such kind people, I will tell you.
She said, I'm from Israel.
And I got up and hugged her.
And her eyes started to tear up.
And she said, I didn't plan for this, your country, to turn their backs on us.
And I told her how much I love Israel.
And I pray for her every day.
And she ended up crying about it.
But it was just...
Why does she feel that we have turned our backs on Israel?
Because she finds out about all the colleges that are telling Jews to get up out of their seats and the liberal media sympathizing with Palestine and Hamas.
She doesn't understand it.
I don't either.
I don't either.
I do.
You do too.
I know you long enough.
The left is sick.
The left is always wrong.
If it's beautiful, the left hates it.
And Israel is an island of beauty in the Middle East, so they hate it.
America was not an island, but a peninsula of beauty with all its flaws on Earth, and they hate it.
They love the bad.
Bad art, bad music, bad teachers, bad schools, bad innocence in children.
It is a sick world, the left.
Shame on you if you're a leftist.
Shame on you.
What keeps me sane is the belief there is a good in judging God.
Your conscience is worthless, as so many people's consciences are worthless.
Well, to work for the destruction of Israel, you have to be as despicable as they come.
you There is something even lower than the vast numbers of Muslims who want Israel dead.
It's the vast number of non-Muslims who want Israel dead.
They were not raised in a culture of theological genocide, as not all by any means, but many Muslims have been.
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Okay, everybody, I'm Dennis Prager. - Sure.
I noted at the beginning of the last hour, and then I went to analyzing the American political scene, and I mentioned that there isn't a more clear moral thinker that I am aware of than Douglas Murray.
Who I've had on the show a number of times, fireside chat, done some PragerU videos.
He's an exceptional human being.
His moral clarity, his worry about Britain.
I don't think Piers Morgan has had a more effective, he may have had equally effective, but I don't think he's had a more effective clarifying spokesman about the moral universes in collision between Israel and its enemies, including its left-wing enemies that have nothing to do with Islam.
The pincer movement of fundamentalist Islam and the left may destroy the West, may certainly destroy Israel.
I don't predict it will destroy Israel, but it certainly intends to.
So here, I won't play the entire thing.
The entire thing is worth hearing, but we'll begin at the beginning.
Douglas Murray is...
They're broadcasting to Pierce Morgan at night time, Britain and night time, Israel time.
He is in, Douglas Murray is in Israel for this interview.
Did it take place yesterday?
No, yesterday or the day before.
Or the day before.
Okay, here we go.
Well, I'm joined now by Douglas Murray, who's on the Gaza border.
Douglas.
Let me ask you first of all, why have you felt the need to go there?
Well, I've covered every Israeli conflict since the 2006 Lebanon War.
I've covered lots of other conflicts as well.
And this one is obviously an incredibly important conflict.
It's one that is going to be crucial, not just for Israel, but for the region.
And I like to see these things firsthand, as you know, Piers.
I do.
Read your stuff for many years about these kind of conflicts.
Let me ask you, what's your feeling on the ground there?
I know you've been with some of the IDF. What is your feeling about the motivation for this war from the Israeli side?
Is it revenge?
Is it something different?
What are you picking up?
Well, it's not revenge.
I mean, I think the most obvious thing is I spent part of today at the kibbutz of near Oz.
This is a kibbutz right down the road from here by the Gaza border where there are about 400 residents.
80 of them were kidnapped on the 7th of October and another 30 to 40 were murdered.
And we went through, I went through the remains of their houses, saw all the blood-spattered walls and went through the charred remains of that village, that community.
That was just one of the massacre sites.
I went earlier past the...
Massacre site of what you'll remember is that there was a music festival also near the Gaza border which was taking place where so many hundreds of young people were having a rave and then were massacred, raped, mutilated and again kidnapped and taken.
Through the border into Gaza.
So you see the remnants of that appalling day everywhere around here.
It's very hard to find a family anywhere in Israel that hasn't been directly or very closely related to the atrocities of that day.
1,400 civilians slaughtered in one day and thousands more injured is the sort of thing that will have an effect on any society.
It would be roughly comparative to, say...
20,000 people being killed in our own country.
So it's a massive thing.
It's a massive blow in Israel.
The whole nation has felt it.
And, of course, people know that there needs to be an answer to this.
And I think that's what you can hear behind me as I'm speaking, some of that answer, the crump of artillery shells and missiles from the air, it seems.
And you can see some of that rising over the border behind me.
You talked about proportionality in this conflict being absurd.
I've talked a lot about what is proportionate.
I've struggled to think of what a proportionate response is to the barbarism of those terror attacks.
There is a view, and maybe you share this view, but there is a view, I think Ben Shapiro said this to me when I interviewed him, There should be no limit on the response that Israel has.
It's not about proportion.
It's not about you kill one of us, we kill one of you.
This is about a war specifically designed to eliminate Hamas and they will do what it takes.
Yes.
Well, I mean, remember that one of the heads of Hamas said only a few days ago, from the comfort of his foreign residents, because remember, the heads of Hamas don't live among their peoples.
They've been made billionaires by taking an international aid for years now.
But one of the heads of Hamas said the other day, we will keep doing October the 7th again and again and again.
So there's a realization in Israel, I think, that this is just unlivable.
You can't have a situation where...
You have a neighbor who Well, won the election in 2006 after Israel withdrew from the Gaza, promptly killed their fellow Palestinians, the Fatah members in the Gaza, threw them off buildings and shot them in the back.
So Hamas has been ruling Gaza for all the last one and a half decades.
It has spent all the international aid money and much more that has come into it on its own infrastructure of terror tunnels, its infrastructure of rockets and other munitions to throw at Israel, and then, of course, enriching its leaders.
The place you see behind me could be Singapore by now.
And there's a reason it isn't.
And it's the leadership of Hamas.
And so, you know, I think that it is something that people have to realize that this is not a situation which is sustainable for Israel.
And, yes, the Israeli government is going to be doing whatever it needs to do to fulfill its objective of ridding the Gaza of Hamas.
How easy or difficult a job that is is another question.
It's something that is going on as we speak.
But in terms of the moral quandary which I've been feeling, and it's not about Israel wanting to eliminate Hamas.
I completely agree with that mission statement.
And certainly there's no chance of any peace when you have a terror group in charge of Gaza in the way that they've now completely established themselves to be, with no limits and just a desire to eradicate Israel and as many Jewish people as they can kill.
So let's park that to one side.
I concur with the mission statement.
But it is incredibly difficult, just on a human level, to see...
Because we know the civilian population in Gaza is half children.
To see the sheer numbers of kids who are being killed by the Israeli onslaught that's come back against Hamas.
What do you feel about that on a human level?
What should we all be feeling about that?
The first thing is, should those deaths really be attributed to the Israeli side?
We saw the other day the BBC and other media reported that the people who were lying dead on the street on one of the main routes through Gaza was alleged to be a massacre carried out by Israelis.
It turned out it wasn't the case at all.
It was Hamas massacring Palestinians fleeing south as the Israelis had recommended they do.
So the question, in a way, that you ask, I would say there's an answer to, which is...
Who exactly is responsible for these deaths?
If you do, as Hamas does, decide to build bunkers and put rockets on them and then put hospitals on top of them, who exactly is responsible for that?
Is it the Israelis in their response?
Or is it Hamas for doing that?
If you do decide, as Hamas has done, to use all of these billions of dollars of international aid to build tunnels where you can hide, among other things, the kidnapped Israelis, who's responsible for the strikes that happen as a result and any civilian deaths?
Is it the Israelis or is it Hamas, who has been holding the Palestinian peoples of the Gaza hostage for the last 15 years?
Again, I repeat this point.
A lot of what has been said about this seems to suggest that Hamas has no responsibility for this.
If you went into your neighbor's house, ransacked it, raped your neighbors, killed some of them, took others into captivity, and then somebody said, that's not on, I'm going to do something in retaliation to that, you would bear the cost of that.
You'd bear the price for that.
The Israelis have the right to respond to such an attack.
Atrocity.
And I'm rather surprised, or at least I'm not surprised in a way, I'm disappointed as ever by the number of commentators in the UK and elsewhere who always use times like this to say things like, we've got to, you know, this is a time for judicious voices, this is a time for calm.
Right, all right, hold on, we'll continue.
Douglas Murray being interviewed, he's at the Gaza-Israel border.
Yes, that point.
Who is responsible for the Gazan's deaths?
Israel or Hamas?
Should people be allowed under the laws of that ban calling for the pro-terror regime?
Is a pro-Hamas demonstration a A violation of British law.
That's the latest part of this interview, Pierce Morgan with Douglas Murray, who is at the Israel-Gaza border during this interview that was held yesterday.
We continue.
...for terror on the streets of Britain, and that existed before the 2006 Terrorism Act banned glorification, and it certainly exists now.
But if you stand on the streets of London calling for jihad, you are calling for terror, and that is actually a place where free speech is at its limit and is no longer permissible.
It's the same with, for instance, calls for intifada on the London tubes.
Remember, we had a touch of intifada on the London tubes a few years ago, so again, calling for intifada...
Is something that you're not allowed to do in the UK. You're not allowed to call for murder.
Let me finish one other case.
You're not allowed to stand on the streets of London and call for the murder of Jews or any other minority.
And yet people have been getting away with this Saturday after Saturday.
And are the police arresting people?
No.
No, they're not.
The police last week said, we're outnumbered.
Right.
So that is a key point.
The police have said, Met Commissioner Sir Mark Rowley said, the laws created by Parliament are clear.
There is no absolute power to ban protest.
Therefore, there will be a protest this weekend.
But the laws are also there to stop people brazenly supporting terrorism.
So if people were to use a pro-Hamas banner or chant pro-Hamas sentiment, that would be against the current law of this country and the police should take action.
That's a different issue, though.
It is, but it's not being policed.
I understand.
So on that I can agree with you.
The police need to enforce the existing laws.
However, there will be a large...
But they're not going to because they're outnumbered.
You and I can agree that that's wrong, but that shouldn't mitigate the rights.
Well, don't you think that matters?
Hang on, don't you think that matters?
No, it does matter.
That means that we have a rule of law, but it's not able to be policed.
What's the point of having a law if you can't police it?
Well, I agree with you, but I also think that there are a large number of those protests I'm not invalidating him.
I don't do that.
You make one comment that it's foolish and you're permanently invalidated.
But that betrays a naivete that I find inexcusable in an intelligent, and he is intelligent, adult.
That the majority of the people protesting in pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel demonstrations are for peace?
I spoke at Stanford University a number of years ago.
And it was at a pro-Israel rally on campus.
And a woman came over to me and she said she's a peace activist.
She doesn't agree with the way I described Israel's enemies.
And so I finally calmly said to her, you say you're for peace?
She said, yes.
So I said, are you for peace with Israel or for peace without Israel?
And she walked away.
These people are for peace without Israel.
We continue.
I disagree with that.
I disagree with that, and I'll tell you one reason why.
The crowds in question...
They are 100 times larger than the number of people who came out when hundreds of thousands of people were being killed in Yemen.
They are 100 times larger than the number of people who came out when Bashar al-Assad killed hundreds of thousands of people in Syria.
Seems to me that the people in question only care if one side in the particular conflict happens to involve the Israelis.
But they're allowed to.
They're allowed to.
Well, they're allowed to, absolutely, and we can make judgments about them, but I would not.
I don't presume by any means that what you're talking about are pro-peace people.
They're anti-Israeli.
That's it.
Well, but they're allowed to be anti-Israeli.
I think that's the point.
Sure, they're allowed to be anti-Israeli.
In that case, I suppose we have to allow people to be anti-other nations as well.
I mean, Israel was founded in the same year, within the year of Pakistan.
By the way, I just want to say for the record, he's the only other person I know who raised Pakistan.
You should Google.
I actually wrote a column on why are people at peace with Pakistan's existence but not with Israel's existence.
Yes.
Millions of wounded refugees or dead dwarf the number in Israel's founding.
And there was never a Pakistan in the history of the world.
There were two Israels in the history of the world.
But nobody claims Pakistan has no right to exist because Pakistan isn't Jewish.
This is a magnificent and important interview.
By the way, there was a caller, and I wanted to take the call.
So if you can call back, I totally understand why you would think I'm not going to be taking calls, given that I'm playing the Pierce Morgan.
Interview with Douglas Murray.
But it was about his child getting anti-Israel immersion from TikTok.
And I'd like to hear about that.
So if you're the one who called, please do.
We return.
Pierce Morgan interviewing Douglas Murray last night.
Douglas Murray is at the Israel.
...hundreds of thousands of people to go around the streets of London protesting that Pakistan doesn't have a right to exist or a right to defend itself.
Maybe we should allow this.
I don't think it's a good precedent whatsoever.
Hang on.
I don't think you have a right to say that Israel doesn't exist if you want the extermination of all people in Israel.
That is a criminal offence.
However, if you are literally, as I said...
Well, it doesn't seem to be a criminal offence, Peter.
It doesn't seem to be a criminal offence.
No, but you and I can agree on that.
I repeat, we're clearly in a position where they're not policing the law.
No, I understand.
Otherwise, we wouldn't have...
But Douglas, you and I can agree that the police need to enforce existing law.
There's no dispute between us on that, and they should be doing that a lot more.
But we also, I think...
Have to surely look at the people who are genuinely there in a non-violent manner, of which there are many.
These are massive protests.
I think back to the protests, for example, against Donald Trump when he came to London, against America because he was the president.
We allowed that to happen.
I didn't necessarily agree with them, but we allowed them to happen.
Okay, forgive me one moment.
I haven't interrupted much, but I just have to say...
I don't recall...
That the anti-Trump protesters supported the extermination of the United States.
Is that fair to say?
I don't even agree with the protesters, but to link them to the pro-Palestine, pro-Palestinian demonstrations around the world, like in Sydney, gas the Jews.
Or from the river to the sea.
This is their anthem.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
That means no Israel.
Was there talk about from the Atlantic to the Pacific?
We will eliminate America and Americans?
When people demonstrate it against Donald Trump?
It's an odd parallel to draw.
Go ahead.
A woman's march in Washington.
That happened and people accepted that.
Here's a very important point on that, Piers.
Madonna almost certainly, so far as I know, has no military capability behind her.
So when Madonna says, I'd like to blow up the White House, it's a piece of stupid rhetoric from a pop star.
When you've just had the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust, and you have Hamas supporters and others marching through London calling for it to happen again, that does matter, because there is a capability.
So there is a difference, isn't there?
Well, there is, but I don't think that all of these protesters are pro-Hamas.
And the difference is...
Really?
Why don't we hear any anti-Hamas from any of them?
Westerners think that everybody is like them. .
It is hard.
That is why there are people who believe human nature is basically good.
They're surrounded by decent people, and they assume that is the way the world works.
Instead of assuming the West is an aberration, they assume everyone outside the West is just like them.
We continue.
Yeah, but you don't honestly think they're all pro-Hamas, these people?
Yeah, they are.
Well, I think that anyone who, for instance, chants things like, from the river to the sea...
Yes, but they're not all doing that.
Or is criminally ignorant.
Oh, well, they are.
I mean, there's masses of videos of them marching past Westminster Abbey last week saying exactly that.
Yeah, but they're not all doing it.
I've watched the videos and there are lots of people chanting and some who aren't.
Well, here's a challenge.
Okay, well, here's a challenge, Piers.
If you decided to go on some kind of march and in week one you discovered that you had the BNP along your side calling, for instance, for the murder of all black people, would you not...
I wonder whether or not you should go on week two.
Would you not drop out by about week three?
That is such a superb answer.
Hold on.
Let me relish the brilliance of that answer.
They're not all chanting Israel should be exterminated, but they're all attending marches where a vast number of the other marchers are chanting that.
Why is that not morally problematic, Pierce?
Continue.
That's a good question.
And yes, I would.
But that doesn't actually...
Yeah, good.
Right.
So we can tell something about the marchers.
Well, you can say that you have a view.
Your own opinion is they shouldn't be marching alongside these other people.
However, they are still entitled in a free democratic country like ours.
Look, I don't have absolute opinions on this.
I just think it's a really interesting test of how far free speech goes.
And I do feel uncomfortable...
Here's the interesting test, if I can say so.
Yeah, sure.
The interesting test, if I can say so, Piers, is there are limits to this, in fact.
You are not allowed to glorify the murder of people on the streets of Britain.
You are not allowed to be a member of a prescribed terrorist group in Britain.
But I return to the point I made at the start.
We allow it.
I repeat, we have Hamas commanders living in the UK who take welfare in the UK and use it to commit terror.
Why are they not locked up?
Because we have laws...
That we don't pursue.
We have criminal charges that we don't use.
The person in particular I'm thinking of, Mohammed Sawalha, got British citizenship.
You're meant to sign a form saying you're a person of good character to become a British citizen.
Can you say that somebody who was a former military commander of Hamas in the West Bank is, quote, a person of good character?
I'd say not.
So again, like the police, like many other people, the border control in the UK doesn't enforce the law, doesn't care to do so.
And I repeat...
There is a serious problem with this in the UK. Israel, as you can see tonight, can look after itself.
I wonder if Britain can say the same.
Yeah, listen, I understand that point.
You've also said it will have to be counted if the march goes ahead, because the British public shouldn't have to put up with it.
But what does that mean in reality?
You're not endorsing people to go and confront them, are you?
No.
No, not at all.
I would suggest...
We'll hear what he suggests, and the timing will be perfect.
This was, it's rare that I play such an extended interview.
But the moral clarity is piercing.
No pun intended.
We'll be back.
Hello there everybody.
Dennis Prager here.
One of my favorite thinkers is John Rosemond.
I have been citing him, having him on the show, done PragerU videos for, oh my God, the better part of 20 years.
I had him on when he was 15 years old.
I'll give you an idea of how long that is.
John Rosemond is a family psychologist.
He's the inventor of the idea that the most important vitamin to give to a child is vitamin N. Vitamin N is the word no.
There is an article in the Wall Street Journal with regard to mental care for kids.
Children in mental health crisis surge.
Into hospitals, ERs.
We have arguably the most cases of psychological...
What's the word?
I don't like illness, but we'll use it for now.
And unhappiness and depression ever recorded since we began recording these things.
So I thought I'd like to find out John Rosemont's take on it.
John, welcome back to the show.
Hi, Dennis.
Thanks for having me back.
I truly appreciate it.
What's your latest book?
My latest book is titled The Bible Parenting Code.
And it's kind of a tongue-in-cheek title.
I'm using the word code in more or less its original sense.
To mean a set of principles that guide some activity.
And in this case, I've taken 40, which is a good scriptural number, biblical verses, and explained how they pertain to the raising of children.
And most of the verses in question don't mention children, parents, fathers, mothers, families.
These are verses that most people are familiar with but really don't see from a parenting perspective.
Well, I've got to get that book.
I'm going to order it.
Oh, don't do that.
I'll send it to you.
Okay.
I'll do both.
I'll send you an autograph.
Copy it.
Okay, that's fine.
You don't get my invaluable autographs.
I know, I would treasure it.
Thank you.
It's very kind.
You're welcome.
By the way, I'm going to do a fun test on you right now.
You are quite right that 40 is a big biblical number.
So what 40s come to your mind?
Uh...
Oh gosh, Jesus' 40 days in the desert comes to my mind.
There were 40 years of wandering in the desert in Exodus.
Those two popped to mind, Dennis.
All right, so I'll give you more.
You'll love this, because you're one of the few I can do this with.
The 40 days of the flood?
Correct.
The 40 days and nights that Moses is on Sinai.
Ah, yes.
So 40 is a big deal.
You were quite right about that.
So I thought you'd get a kick out of that, because I'm writing a Bible commentary, so I'm up on this stuff.
I don't expect anybody else to know the answer to that question.
But you did quite well.
I'm slowly getting through your commentary.
I've gotten through Genesis and Exodus.
And looking forward to the rest.
Well, thank you.
That means a lot to me.
So, in a nutshell, in fact, I think I'll do it this way.
I'm going to bounce an idea off you.
My late dad came on my show every July 18th, his birthday.
And my father was actually a wise man.
And I say actually because it's not common wisdom.
Every so often, I had him on for about 15 years, and every so often I would ask him, so Dad, what's the biggest difference between America today and when you were a kid?
And amazingly, every time he gave me the same answer, he said, today, when I was a kid, the parents ran the house.
Today, kids run the house.
How do you respond to that?
Well, I respond to that very affirmatively.
It's obvious that today's parents don't understand that their role is leadership.
They have shifted into relationship mode, and that mode is very seductive.
You know, the idea that your primary obligation is to have a wonderful give-and-take relationship with your child.
People in positions of leadership, no matter the context, they can't afford to try primarily, they can't afford to aim for wonderful relationship with the people that they're charged with leading because relationship at that level shoots leadership in the proverbial fit.
And this is why today's parents are having so much difficulty, which my generation, our generation, and previous generations did not have to anywhere near this degree with the issue of discipline, with the issue of obedience, tantrums.
You know, I tell people quite frequently that when I was a child, I never saw a child throw a tantrum.
That's such an interesting point.
Yeah, I never saw a child belligerently refuse to follow the instruction of an adult who is in a legitimate position of authority.
I never saw that.
And this stuff is rampant today, and parents don't understand that...
They've been taking their marching orders from the wrong people.
I mean, the evidence is clear.
We've been taking our marching orders from the wrong people when it comes to the raising of children.
But it's hard for people to conceive that people with capital letters after their names and impressive titles don't know what they're talking about.
And I'm talking about my profession, Dennis.
I'm talking about psychology.
Don't start me on your profession.
I want to throw at you a heretical sounding, but I don't think it is heretical, response to your brilliant observation, so brilliant I wrote it down because I don't want to forget it, that parents have substituted relationship for leadership.
That, I can't tell you how intelligent and wise I think that is.
But here's my heresy-sounding note.
I think people have done that with God.
They have substituted relationship for leadership.
I agree.
I totally agree.
Wow.
I'm an evangelical Christian, and the idea that Jesus is your buddy is absurd.
You know, the idea that God is your buddy is absurd.
And this has trickled into all areas of society.
But when it comes to children, The most significant areas of society into which it has trickled is the home and the school.
Today's teachers are told in their undergraduate education programs that their job is to have a wonderful relationship.
And they're graded on this by their own students at the end of the year.
And so these teachers sit on pins and needles when it comes to these student evaluations as if children are capable of understanding and properly evaluating adult behavior.
But this is what happened in the home and school, and this is why, you know, your father said what he said, which I thoroughly agree with.
And this is why we're having...
This epidemic of rampant disobedience, tantrums.
I mean, tantrums.
Children 13, 14 years old screaming, yelling, throwing things when their parents tell them no.
Give them the vitamin you referred to earlier.
It's absurd.
It's ridiculous.
And it speaks to A future and what's coming down the track.
All right, tell it to us in a moment.
John Rosemond, the magnificent child psycho.
You are a magnificent child psychologist.
I am on with John Rosemond, and he's one of my favorite...
To say, I was going to say one of my favorite...
Psychologists, but you have such little competition that it's not really a compliment.
You're one of my favorite thinkers.
That's a compliment.
One of my favorite psychologists.
Your profession...
It is a compliment indeed.
Thank you.
No, no, but I'm just making the point.
We might as well address that for a moment, and I tell you, this substitution of...
A relationship for leadership with parents.
It's a perfect one-line insight.
I love those.
In a nutshell, or if you want it to be two nutshells, what has happened to your profession?
Well, we went down the road of progressivism beginning in the late 1960s.
And I saw it developing when I was in graduate school at the time, but I didn't understand what I was seeing.
And I didn't understand it completely until maybe the late 80s, early 90s.
And, you know, I don't even think my profession qualifies to be restricted, Dennis.
We are a bogus science.
Our therapies have never proven their efficacy.
The drugs that we recommend have never outperformed placebos in clinical trials.
Our theories are bogus.
They've never proven themselves.
Nothing that we do.
We don't have any practice standards in psychology.
You know, one psychologist is humanist.
The next psychologist...
The next is Freudian, the next is Gestalt, the next is something else.
You don't find this in any legitimate profession in America.
When you go to a dentist, you go to a dentist.
You know, you don't go to a humanistic dentist, and down the street there's a behavioral dentist, and there's some other sort of dentist even further down the street.
You only find this in psychology.
No practice standards to speak of, and the efficacy of anything we do has yet to be proven.
I maintain that my profession should be investigated by state's attorneys general for disingenuous business practices, and that we further ought to be investigated for violations of the RICO Act, because we're in collusion with Big Pharma.
Well, that's certainly the case with psychiatry.
Are psychologists allowed to prescribe now?
Some psychologists in some states are allowed to prescribe certain drugs.
I think California is one such state where psychologists can prescribe certain, what is it, Class A drugs.
Do you remember when, I don't remember the number, it was hundreds, maybe a thousand, maybe more than a thousand, psychiatrists declared Barry Goldwater mentally ill?
Yeah, I remember that in the mid-60s, yeah.
Was that 64?
Probably, because that's when he ran against Johnson.
Yeah.
I mean, it was the headline of the week in 1964 when he was running.
And, you know, I was only 17 years old, but I've already attuned to world affairs, and yeah, I remember that very, very clearly.
So, the reason I raise it is to show how far back the deterioration of psychiatry and psychology go, because that violated every basic rule.
You can't clinically judge someone.
Until you've seen them.
Right.
Until you've talked to them.
Until you've had personal contact with them.
And not just brushing contact, but sustained contact over a period of, you know, several appointments, several hours at least.
Yeah.
And this is what, I mean, my profession is doing the same thing these days with Donald Trump.
You know, he's crazy too.
Haven't you heard?
So, this goes under a different rubric, but related, where I've said for so many years, everything the left touches, it destroys.
And that would include a good chunk of psychiatry and psychology.
Do you see any, and by the way, don't make up one.
If there isn't, there isn't.
But do you see any reason for hope for your profession?
No, I've been asked that question before.
I see no redeeming quality and I see no hope.
There's no indication whatsoever based on research, Dennis, that a person needs more than a high school degree to do competent counseling.
I mean, counseling, competent counseling, what is it?
It's nothing but common sense.
I don't care how many years you go to school, how many degrees you have, Everything boils down to the nub of things.
It's all about common sense.
It's all about connecting with a person empathically and your common sense.
And the research studies have found that when people don't know the educational level of the counselor that they are talking to, that they rate people with terminal high school degrees As highly as they rate PhDs.
If not higher.
Back in a moment, John Rosemond.
R-O-S-E-M-O-N-D. We will return.
you're listening to the Dennis Prager Show.
The remarkable John Rosemond psychologist Just...
He's done two PragerU videos, by the way.
They're all free, just so you'll know.
This is not an ad.
Is your child getting enough vitamin N? And how to get kids to listen.
And the reason he's on today, although I could have him on every day as far as I'm concerned, but especially because of the Wall Street Journal article that I've been reading to you about the record number of kids who are going to ERs.
That's amazing.
Not just to therapists, but to ERs for emotional, psychological, mental problems.
You know, I read these things, John, regularly to my listeners, and the mental health crisis, etc., the depression, staggering record number of young women depressed, for example, and none of them mention No fathers.
None of them mention no religion.
And so I'm thinking, really?
You think that those aren't worthy of mentioning as possible reasons?
I mean, I know I'm leaving you on here.
here, you could certainly say no, but that strikes me as an indictment of your profession.
Yeah, Yeah, we don't recognize that America's child mental health problems have coincided and risen along with the statistical rise of the fatherless home. we don't recognize that America's child mental health problems have We refuse to acknowledge it because it's politically incorrect to acknowledge it.
A Wall Street Journal article, I read it, and I read the Wall Street Journal every morning.
It implied that the problem could be solved if we have more mental health professionals.
Yeah, that's right.
That's what they always say.
And I just had to burst out laughing when I read it because mental health professionals cause this problem.
You know, I mean, think about it, Dennis.
You know, your parents weren't consulting psychologists.
My parents weren't consulting psychologists.
None of our friends' parents were consulting psychologists or therapists of any stripe, and yet the mental health of our generation was statistically, provably, ten times better than the mental health of today's kids.
And the mental health of kids started deteriorating at the point where American parents began listening to taking their marching orders instead of from their elders, where parents had traditionally gone up until this point from psychologists and other mental health professionals in the late 60s and early 70s.
And even though the per capita number of child therapists of various, you know, labels, Has increased exponentially since 1970. Child mental health has deteriorated exponentially.
When are we going to get it?
These people fed us a pig in a poke when it came to their advice concerning child rearing, which today's parents unwittingly are adhering to.
And they don't even realize that this new parenting philosophy is 50 years old.
You know, they think, parents who are in their 20s and 30s, and they have no reason to believe otherwise, that this is the way it's always been with kids.
You know, you hear this meme all the time, raising a child is the hardest thing you'll ever do.
My parents would never have said that.
Your parents would never have said that.
And your parents, my parents, you know, parents of that generation on average had probably twice the number of kids that today's parents are dealing with.
And they just, you know, they just strode through the process, confident of the legitimacy of their authority.
My parents...
Going back to the whole relationship thing, instead of having a hierarchy of authority in the American family today, we have four, five, six people who are constantly struggling for the prize of who's the boss.
It's crazy.
Yeah, that was my father's original comment.
Yeah, if we don't think the child mental health...
You know, children need unconditional love and they need unequivocal authority.
I would even argue they need that one more.
I'm going to talk to you about that when we get back.
John Rosemond, any one of his books will help you immensely.
Dennis Prager here.
Thanks for listening to the Daily Dennis Prager Podcast.
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