By the way, I get a lot of people emailing me asking what the name of the song is.
Sean, can you say it in Dennis' ear and Dennis can repeat it if you have it on hand?
Why, you didn't choose it?
I thought you chose it.
I did choose it, but Sean sent me a list of a few songs and I chose it, but I don't remember the name.
Oh, what is the name, Sean?
Nathaniel Ratliff and the Night Sweats.
Of course.
Yeah.
You Worry Me.
I love it.
I'm going to look that up.
Boy, that's interesting.
The opening of our podcast is a song called You Worry Me.
I hadn't thought of that.
I know.
By the way, before I even introduce the show, do you know, I think it's idiosyncratic on my part, but I almost never hear lyrics.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
Now that I think about it, I listen more to...
When I listen to music, it's not really so much about the lyrics for me.
It's about the way that the sound makes me feel.
Right.
That's me.
Right.
Well, that's interesting.
I'm very curious.
People, please write in to me.
I'd be very interested to know if that's the same for others.
Sean, is it the same for you?
I think most people listen to the words.
We're bringing Sean into this podcast.
Your music than words.
I think more males are music than words, and females are more words than music.
This is Dennis and Julie.
I'm Dennis, that's Julie.
Dennis Prager, Julie Hartman.
What number is this?
18?
You know that in Judaism, 18 is a very significant number.
Why?
Because, it's hard to explain, but I think I can do it.
In Hebrew, There are 22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet.
Each letter is a number.
So the first letter, Aleph, is 1. The next bet is 2. Then you get to 10. Okay, that continues.
So 11 would be the two letters of 10 and 1. Or for that matter, 6 and 5. They would equal 11. In Hebrew, the two letters that make up 18 mean chai, which means life.
Oh, interesting.
And Judaism is very, very, very life-oriented.
That's why when you...
In English, you go cheers when you drink together.
L'chaim.
Yes.
Jews say l'chaim.
Jews, l'chaim.
To life.
To life.
And...
So in Russian, it's nazdarovya, which is to your health.
Salud is, again, what would salud mean?
Also health.
But life is the big deal.
And by the way, very often Jews will give charity in multiples of 18. So I will often give, if it's a Jew getting married, I will give 10 times chai, which is 180. I remember that because when I was younger and I went to bar and bat mitzvahs a lot, my parents would give me a check for my friend and it was always a multiple of 18. And your parents are not Jewish.
They're not Jewish.
Somehow they knew that.
By the way, I'm not joking.
You tell them.
I find that very impressive.
That a non-Jew would think that sensitively.
About what would be meaningful to a Jewish kid or their parents.
You know, I'm going to go home and ask them where they learned that, because now that I know, I just...
Gosh, when I was little, I just remember thinking, oh, okay, it's kind of weird, but there must be some significance to it.
Now that I've heard what the significance is to you, it really is quite meaningful.
Right, the second you said it's the 18th Dennis and Julie broadcast, I thought, oh, to life.
So listen to this, everybody, and get a big kick out of this.
This weekend, my wife gets a picture, a photo, through her texts, and it was sent by her son, my stepson's girlfriend, who's all of 19 years of age, but a very mature, wonderful girl.
And what is the picture?
She was at a Starbucks.
In a place called La Crescenta, California, a little north of where we're broadcasting from or make our podcast from.
And so it's north of L.A. in the foothills of the mountains, about a half hour away.
She's at the Starbucks, sends my wife a picture of a good-looking guy about 30 years of age.
Reading the Rational Bible by Dennis Prager.
In the Starbucks.
In the Starbucks.
So what is Dennis' immediate reaction?
Julie's husband.
I have met Julie's husband.
And by the way, everyone, he called me with Sue.
I called you, not the guy.
Oh, no, yes, not the guy.
We're on the lookout for the guy.
Yes, no, that's what I want to announce.
That's why we're announcing it.
We're on the lookout for you, sir.
And Dennis called me and he said, I found your husband.
And we were joking around, although I don't really know if it was a joke if we look back at it.
I hope it's not a joke, but I never joke about that.
My dream is to find you a good man that you deserve.
Well, I was going to say we were joking around that we should go to the Starbucks and put up signs.
Like a missing dog.
Missing the following patron of this Starbucks.
How funny.
We have a wife for you.
By the way, the guy might be married for all we know.
I never thought of that.
Well, in the picture, he doesn't have a ring on.
Oh, I'm glad you looked.
Investigator Sue noted that.
Oh, God.
My friends, I am committed to fidelity and, thank God, have been a faithful husband.
But I will tell you, That more than morality, more than love of my wife, more than God himself, what stops me is that my wife is a detective.
Oh, she is.
She really is.
And you know what?
what she's exceptionally good at combing through the news and finding interesting and not talked about stories i said to her about a year ago because she sends you emails every single day and alan estrin your producer with stories that you should talk about on your show and i said to her please start ccing me on these emails she sends about 10 a day and they're really really good stuff rich stuff so yes we're on the lookout for that guy dennis
i think that we should both go to that Starbucks at the same time and same day Reed's girlfriend spotted him.
You know what?
I think we should, and maybe we should even video it.
Oh, how funny would that be?
I think we should go over to one of the clerks, or whatever they're called.
They have a name for some of us.
Baristas.
Baristas.
Yeah, one of the baristas.
I wrote the book that this guy was reading, and we'd love to meet him.
What a courageous thing to do.
I mean, it shouldn't have to be courageous.
It's sad that I'm saying it is courageous.
To read your rational Bible in a Starbucks in Los Angeles.
It's very sad.
It is.
La Crescenta is a more conservative area.
We do have conservative areas, contrary to public opinion.
That's true, we do.
The whole scene was hilarious.
You know, my mom's cousin met his wife in a Starbucks.
They were sitting...
My mom's cousin, Joe, and his father, Joe, were sitting in a Starbucks in Washington, D.C. This was about 30 or 40 years ago.
And this beautiful Argentinian woman and her mother walked into the Starbucks.
And my mom's cousin's father said to him, kind of nudged him and said, go over and talk to that girl.
And my mom's cousin was like, no, oh gosh, she wouldn't go for me, or it's a bit impertinent to walk up to someone in the middle of the Starbucks.
And his father nudged him, and they met, and they ended up getting married.
So you know what?
Okay, go on.
And the CEO of Starbucks wrote them a note.
How fun is that?
Saying congratulations, they have it framed in their house.
So I have a serious question about that.
What did he say to her?
When I was single, and I was single until 32, and I was blessed with a very good social life because I was already a public figure and that's a big help.
But just approaching a stranger, I don't have any issue.
That's all I do is approach strangers.
But that specific thing, boy meets girl, what do you say in a Starbucks?
That doesn't sound like a line that she's heard a hundred times.
Oh, I've got to go ask him.
Please ask him.
I wonder if he remembers.
I'm going to go home, ask my parents, when did you learn that 18 thing about Judaism?
And then I'm going to call my mom's cousin Joe and ask him that.
I wonder if he remembers.
He probably does.
But I want you to know I feel for guys in this regard.
I do too.
And you know, well, it's very interesting.
I'm interested to hear what you would say to women.
What was your pick-up line?
Or if you saw a woman in a Starbucks, what would you say?
Oh, you will love this then.
You may have heard this story, but I didn't tell this to you directly, but you may have heard me say it.
And I hope you didn't, because you'll crack up if you haven't.
So I remember once, I guess my mid-twenties, late-twenties, And I don't even know why I was in a bar.
I remember it being in a bar.
You in a bar, that's rare.
It was probably a restaurant-bar combination because I don't drink.
Not out of principle, I just don't enjoy it.
So anyway, as the British say, I'm chatting her up and making headway, I felt.
And then she said, so what do you do?
And I said, oh, I write in lecture.
And I thought, oh, that's going to really, that goes over well.
Yes.
And she goes, oh, really?
About what?
Oh, you know what I said?
Yes, but go on.
I said, ethical monotheism.
Yes.
And she got up and left.
No, I'm kidding.
Pretty much.
Pretty much.
It died.
But you know what?
In a way, that's a blessing.
Because you want to know if that person...
I agree with you.
But my only intent was not matrimony.
Right.
You're being honest.
I'm being honest.
And so that was the last time...
Oh, it wasn't the last.
There was one more, but it wasn't a pickup situation.
It was on a plane.
I remember where even.
Going to Kentucky to give a lecture.
Woman sitting next to me.
Well, what brings you to Louisville?
I pronounce it the way they do.
And I go, I'm going to give a lecture.
Oh, really?
What's your subject?
I go, monotheism.
I drop the ethical.
Monotheism.
Oh, wow.
Let me tell you, I have rheumatism.
Oh, that is hilarious.
Oh, my God.
Oh, gosh.
Is that precious?
You could not make that up.
No, you couldn't.
That is so funny.
She thought it was a disease.
Oh, my God.
It is certainly not.
It's the cure.
It is not a disease.
It is the cure.
You know, I am so, Dennis, remarkably unclued in when it comes to dating things.
I like to think that in life I'm very good at picking up on social cues.
Clued in to conversations and interactions.
But when it comes to dating and if someone's flirting with me, I basically need to be told explicitly that I am being flirted with.
Otherwise, I will not know.
And I've had friends before read text messages that I have with guys.
And they'll go, oh my gosh, she really likes you.
He's flirting with you.
And I'll go, what?
What are you talking about?
No, he's not.
And then it turns out he was.
This story you'll find to be interesting because I think it says a lot about...
The unfortunate state of dating culture among people in my generation.
But it's a sweet story.
I was visiting Cambridge back in October of 2020. We were sent home that year due to COVID. It was my junior year.
And there were some friends I had who were living off campus in Cambridge Zooming.
And so I just made a trip, because what the hell else was I doing that semester, to Cambridge to visit my friends off campus.
And there's this fabulous ice cream store in Harvard Square called J.P. Licks.
It's named after Jamaica Plains.
It's a suburb of Boston.
That's what the J.P. stands for.
They have the...
Best ice cream I gained 15 pounds freshman year that I have since lost, thank God, but thanks to that ice cream.
Anyway, it was late at night, and I had just seen one of my friends, and before I went back to my hotel, I had to stop there to get an ice cream cone.
And I was just sitting outside.
It was October.
It was a nice evening, just eating my ice cream alone, and this guy walked up to me, and he sat down with me, and I immediately...
He sat down?
I should clarify.
He approached and he said, Hi, I'm Jim.
I think you're really beautiful.
Do you mind if I sit?
And I was very, very taken aback.
And he looked, you know, he didn't look menacing, so I let him sit.
And he was really sweet.
He was saying, I'm a graduate student, I'm living off campus, you know, what flavor is that?
You know, he was just being nice.
And I was so freaked out.
I just sat there kind of paralyzed.
I didn't, and you know me, I am rarely without words.
I just, I didn't know what to do, and I felt really bad.
And I said to him, you know, Oh, I so appreciate, you know, your, I don't know, your forthcomingness or your politeness.
I said something, but I just, I'm not comfortable with this.
Really?
And he got up and left.
Really?
And then, you know, Dennis, after he got up and left.
I feel bad for him.
I feel so bad for him, too.
If you're listening, Jim or Joe or whoever the heck you are, I'm sorry, I don't remember your name.
I want to apologize to you.
I wasn't rude at all, but I was, I was just, it was, it was kind of.
I thought at the time it was creepy.
And then I look back and I thought...
So wait, how old were you?
I was 20. So it's important...
Or I guess I was 21. So what year were you in?
I was a junior in college and I was sitting outside.
Well, that's odd.
I thought you might have been a freshman because you went to an all-girls high school.
I did.
So my suspicion is your knowledge of men was close to zero.
Oh, yes.
Right.
Well, my knowledge of women was close to zero.
Yes.
So I had a brother and that was it.
I mean, I didn't have any women in my life.
I mean, I had my mother in my life.
That you were a junior and reacted that way.
I know.
He sounds like he was...
He was sweet, but it just so took me by surprise.
So wait, so really, were you open to any guy coming and sitting down with you?
You know, this is...
What if the guy had come and said, you know, gee, what do you think of Voltaire?
Well, this is what's interesting, Dennis.
That moment was actually a very big one in my life, and I have thought about it a lot.
I thought at the time that I was willing.
If someone said to me, what if you were eating ice cream outside of J.P. Licks and someone sat and started talking with you, a cute guy?
I would have said, you know, great.
I would love that.
But then when it happened to me, there was something that, an alarm that went off inside of me.
And I realized that throughout my whole life, and certainly at my all-girls school, this was taught to me.
We were taught to see actions like that as creepy and menacing.
Oh, that is so important.
And I felt the second he left, he walked around the corner and I realized, Julie, what did you just do?
That was so stupid.
He was nice.
He didn't come up and he didn't seem menacing.
I was so taken aback and my internal alarm went off.
It was a Pavlovian response.
But it was a Pavlovian response that was induced by the culture.
Yes.
It's not a Pavlovian response in a woman.
Of course.
It's a Pavlovian response today.
That's important.
And Dennis, I thought to myself, I actually...
This is telling you all the details of the story.
I felt so bad.
I like walked around the corner to go find him again just to apologize.
You did?
But he was long gone by that point.
I felt, again, I wasn't rude to him.
I don't feel bad about, you know, I didn't think I was sharp.
No, no, you weren't rude, but obviously you got rid of him.
I feel bad about a missed opportunity.
Yeah, right.
And I feel bad for the future time that he may see a girl and he doesn't do that because of that experience with me.
Oh, that's so true.
And I said to myself, you know what, Julie?
You are never, ever going to let that happen again.
I'm sure you didn't.
And it's happened since, and I've only one other time since.
And this is what's sad.
Men don't do that anymore.
Right, because of this.
Because of this.
That's right.
And this was the one time that guy did it, and I have to tell you, I feel awful.
This is one of the many arenas in which I just...
I work against getting depressed when I know...
What they have done to you.
You meaning your generation.
It was so much healthier in the past when you had these...
It's so ironic.
We went in...
In the 60s and 70s to free love and all that stuff, you know, and no more of these rules from the past.
When I was at Columbia, the girls had dorms, the boys had dorms.
You couldn't go to the girls' room.
They called her down.
So-and-so was here to meet you.
Right.
And you had to be back by a certain time, weekdays and a certain time on weekends.
And of course, all these puritanical Victorian rules.
But men and women got along so much better.
That's the irony.
And it's very respectful.
It's not conducive to a one-night stand.
It's conducive to dating and getting to know someone.
I know.
I can't tell you how bad I feel about that.
Yeah, I'm just shaking my head, but your insight into it is so important.
So this is, by the way, just if I can reveal it, and if not, we'll excise it from it.
So I just said how bad I feel for your generation and what the left has done to you, the progressives, so-called progressives.
And that's what you want to write about.
You just told me about a book you're thinking of.
Yes, What the Left Has Done to My Generation.
Yes, I think it wouldn't hurt to begin with that story.
Yes, you're right.
That is a very good...
I mean, I could begin with so many stories.
That's right.
Well, stories would be very important for that book.
Perhaps for each...
You know, maybe for the love and dating chapter, I start with that story.
Maybe I start with a different story for each chapter.
I think the thesis statement...
Well, there's no love and no dating.
That's the irony.
Right.
The thesis statement of the book...
Actually, I'm inspired by what we discussed last week.
Remember when you said to me that when you were growing up, you were taught to value God and country?
And you said to me, what were you taught?
And I said, I was taught to value myself.
That, I think, is the root of so many of our problems.
I mean, you've said many times, Dennis, that if there's been one thing that you've been arguing for the past almost 40 years of radio, it's been that...
I think that goes along perfectly with what has happened to my generation.
Now we are taught to trust ourselves only.
We don't rely on something like religion.
We don't rely on the wisdom of our elders.
That makes for a sad and desiccating life.
Because if you're just the arbiter of your own truth, if you are your own arbiter of right and wrong, you don't behave well.
And you don't lead a happy life.
So that's my thesis statement, I think, of the book.
When you say, and you're right, when I asked you, so what has your generation learned to value?
Myself, ourselves.
Started to smile.
The reason for my smile was I don't believe I was told once in my life, value yourself.
It was not in the vocabulary of my parents.
It was not in the vocabulary of my religious Jewish education.
Not that there was ever a call to non-value yourself, but the irony is the self-esteem generation has less self-esteem.
Oh, totally.
Less happiness than those of us who were taught, you're not that great.
That's what I was taught.
You're not that great.
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It shocked me, all this vocabulary.
The number of times parents...
Tell their kids how great they are.
I know.
Well, I said during our last episode, you would not believe the amount of times during my graduation that we were told that we were the best thing to happen to the universe since sliced bread.
What do you think that does to our heads?
Since before sliced bread.
Right.
Ever.
Ever.
I know.
Well, I think the most tragic thing, and I'm certainly going to discuss this in the book, the most tragic thing is that we grew up without religion.
And especially as I'm rereading your Torah commentary, and I'm reading Mere Christianity right now by C.S. Lewis.
And look, I will admit, I don't know what I believe right now.
Well, you know, you do.
You don't know what theology you believe.
That's very important.
You really do know what you believe.
Fair enough.
Thank you for that clarification.
You're right.
I don't know what theology, excuse me, I believe in.
But I'm reading this, and it's just...
Every time I read your Torah commentary or I read really any religious text, when I go back to it, it feels like I'm going back to a historical site that I'm excavating at each time I find a new precious jewel.
It's so rich and it has enriched my life so much I truly see the world differently.
And I thought, my God, the fact that...
Swaths of people in my generation have never read any of this in their lives.
It really is a tragedy.
And the reason why we don't value religion is precisely because we are constantly taught to value ourselves.
I can't tell you how many times, and I loved my high school.
We can get into a separate conversation about that.
There were many parts of my high school that I'm very grateful for.
But we were constantly told, rah, rah, rah, trust yourself, be a leader.
Believe in yourself.
Believe in yourself.
Defy the system.
Stand up.
And we were constantly told to be leaders.
And I think that people gravely underestimate the value of being a follower in some respects.
And, you know...
Is that true?
Making yourself subservient to principles that are greater than yourself.
And I never heard anything like that.
It's a tremendous inner peace in that.
Yes.
Oh, Moses is greater than me.
Right.
God is greater than me.
The Torah is greater than me.
We were never told that second part.
I have no problem with telling people that you should be leaders and that you should stand up for what's right.
I think that's good and I think that's healthy.
But that second and crucial part was never...
Why do you follow?
What do you follow?
But I'm just curious, why do you follow?
My heart.
My truth.
Oh yes, my truth.
My truth.
So this reminds me...
Of a very central part of my life that you, I think, can understand, can appreciate in light of what you just said.
So I have a line which is very, very rare among Jews or Christians.
Obviously, when you say the word Torah, you're referring to the first five books, the five books of Moses in the Hebrew, but that's what it's known as.
And it's the most essential part of the whole Bible.
Jesus would have said so.
I mean, this is not a...
Jesus loved the Torah.
Well, it's what he knew.
I mean, as I note, he never read the New Testament.
But I have said to audiences, and really this is relatively recent, even though I always felt this, but I never articulated it, and now I do.
I don't...
Believe in the Torah.
That's the first five books of the Bible.
Because I believe in God, I believe in God because I believe in the Torah.
My vehicle to God is this scripture.
It is so obviously divine.
It's genius.
It is.
I'm convinced of its divinity because there's nothing else like it.
Nothing.
There's nothing that compares to it in terms of wisdom.
And think about it 3,200 years ago.
I know.
People were, every society on earth was still sacrificing human beings when this sublime text was written.
I know.
One of the best parts about your Torah commentary, sorry Juliet and Virginia for the compliment, but it's true, you talk about the radical inventions of the Torah.
Of course you...
You pull out the many lessons of wisdom, but I appreciate the parts when you're saying God specified when he created the sun and the moon that they were to light up the day and the night, respectively.
And you're saying this de-deifies the sun and the moon.
Right.
And that a lot of societies—and there are many examples of that throughout the Bible.
Also, another great thing that you point out is that polygamous marriages are frowned down upon in the Bible.
There are all of those— Moral radical inventions that we think just came out of thin air and no one understands that it came from the Bible.
That's a thing that I really try to point out to people my age constantly.
I say to them, you know, for all that you disparage and excoriate the religion and Judeo-Christian values in the Bible, You are not only the beneficiaries of those values, but you actively practice those values.
You don't even realize it.
That's right.
We are running off of the fumes right now of Judeo-Christian culture.
And so I say to them, you know, I had an interesting debate with one of my friends recently where I said, I actually brought up your PragerU video where you said if God does not exist, or without, I want to get the wording right so you tell me if this is correct.
Without God, murder isn't wrong.
Right.
You can think it's wrong, but it isn't objectively wrong.
Right.
And I was pressing her on these societal values that we have embraced that, again, we just think sort of exist in the ether.
That's right.
And I say, you know, well, why is murder wrong?
And she said, well, you know, it's wrong because every person is precious.
And I said, okay, well, what if someone wrongs you?
What if someone gravely mistreats you or hurts a member of your family?
Why isn't it wrong to kill that person?
Anyway, I just kept tracing the logic back to the Bible.
And I was just trying to provide an example of...
Well, every person is precious.
Yes.
That's what I said.
I said, you know...
Where do we think that gets...
Yes, where'd you get that from?
Chapter 1 or Chapter 2 of Genesis.
No society in history before the Bible said every person is precious.
Yeah, created in the image and likeness of God.
Where do we get that?
I know.
So I try to point that out to people.
You know, another thing, in addition to the credo that we've been taught that we should trust ourselves and believe in ourselves as opposed to...
Something higher.
I think another huge reason why religiosity has declined is that people in my generation are also taught that there are no superior values or no superior lifestyles.
Everything is just morally neutral.
You know, there's nothing superior about a two-parent household as opposed to a single-parent household.
There's nothing superior about having children in wedlock as opposed to having children outside of wedlock.
And it's seen as oppressive and judgmental to say that these kinds of lifestyles yield better results.
And so when you come to someone and you say that Christianity or Judaism or the Old or New Testament, if you follow those works, it leads to a better, happier, more productive life.
They'll just tell you that that's...
That's a bigoted way of thinking because you're putting one group or one idea above another.
So I have a lot of reactions.
One is, they would never say that to a Muslim who said, you know, the Quran leads to a better life.
Oh, that's beautiful.
Of course.
Beautiful.
Well, the Bhagavad Gita, a Hindu said, leads to a better life.
So people should understand they don't oppose that language.
They only oppose it with regard to Western civilization and Christianity in particular.
Absolutely.
And I say to people all the time, I go, the whole project of civilization has been declaring that some...
Lifestyles are superior to others.
For instance, I think we can all agree that brushing our teeth is a superior way of life to not brushing your teeth.
Right, so they would say science says that, and they worship science, so that would be okay.
But anything in the moral sphere...
But even the way that we...
I was just driving to work, and I was thinking, look at the way that we pave our roads and the way that we organize things with the yellow line in the middle.
We have come to that conclusion that that way of organization is better than cars just willy-nilly.
Why doesn't that exist in the social moral world?
Exactly.
Why doesn't it?
Yeah.
And they don't have an answer for it.
So I am both sad and proud to tell you I remember when the term multiculturalism was invented.
Really?
When was it?
Yes.
I would say it was probably the 80s.
I think it was.
God, that recently.
Oh yes, absolutely.
And I wrote, I wish I could find it though.
I don't know where it was published.
I gave a speech and I wrote how this is the end of civilization as we know it.
And I remember vividly thinking nobody hears me.
Even my own side.
What's wrong with multiculturalism?
It sounds so beautiful.
Everybody brings their own culture to the table.
America is a quilt, not a melting pot.
And all of these lines about that.
I said, no, no.
America is multi-ethnic, not multicultural.
And that, I said, that is the end.
It means no culture is, multiculturalism means no culture is better than another.
Right.
But the left has done that.
They did that first in the arts.
There was no beauty and there was no ugly.
Remember there was that urinal that was on display in one of the...
Oh, the golden urinal.
Yes.
At the Guggenheim Museum in New York.
And by the way, just for the record, the toilet had a name.
Like any art piece, America.
Oh!
God, it was called America?
Yes, you could pee in America.
I think I'm thinking of another urinal.
Oh, really?
That's called the fountain, yes.
Oh, absolutely.
Well, scatological art is a very big deal.
It's called America?
Yes.
Sorry, Sean, I'll start over.
It's called America.
How disrespectful.
Why are you apologizing to Sean if you cough?
Because I know he's the one that has to edit it out.
I feel bad.
I don't think you should edit it out.
You know how many people have written to me?
Does Julie ever cough?
I do cough.
And it's, you know, when I'm guest hosting for you on the radio, you have a cough button because it's just you talking.
Oh, you have it there.
I know, but it wouldn't make a difference.
Your mic would pick it up.
Oh, that's a good point.
You know what?
Maybe we should keep it in.
I am a real person, people.
I cough.
I do, generally, yes.
It's Sean's call, but I don't have an issue with it.
Seriously, though, that is very disrespectful.
I can't believe that.
To call the urinal America.
How gross.
Disrespectful, that's an understatement.
Oh, God.
But this is what goes for art.
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So the multicultural thing was nothing's better than anything else.
And that's the root of our problems.
Do you know there's a professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School She wrote a piece a few years ago.
I had her on the show.
I don't remember her name right now.
And she wrote a piece with a professor from, I think, UC San Diego, a law professor.
And it was that middle class bourgeois values are really the best.
Basically, graduate high school, get a job, get married, and then have children.
You follow that prescription, you will probably have a successful life.
And an exciting and rich life.
Oh, exactly.
Exactly correct.
But that...
So that leads me to conclude, why does the left hate such...
They hated her.
There was a movement of hundreds of professors to have her...
No longer teach the introductory course and eventually to leave the university.
I don't know if she's still there or not.
Just because of...
Oh, they hated her for that.
Oh, bourgeois, middle class, American values are better?
Oh, you might as well say the N-word.
Here's what I want to know.
How many of those faculty members that oppose this woman...
Well, how many of them are married?
How many of them have kids in wedlock?
How many of them show up to work on time and save in advance?
I mean, give me a break.
Yes, give you a break is right.
So they hate these, and I ask myself constantly, this is what motivates me, the question why.
Why would people hate those values?
Which they ironically, as you point out, live.
And to them, I think there are many reasons, and by the way, I think that's the key question.
Why does the left hate what it hates?
As important as what does it hate.
Why does it hate those middle class values?
One of the reasons is, in my opinion, it sounds boring.
Totally.
We discussed this, I think, a few episodes ago.
Absolutely.
By the way, I rely on you.
I've come to realize you remember everything we've said.
This is great.
It's like having a recording.
In my presence.
Well, you always know when we're on the phone, I'll quote something that you said offhandedly on a phone call or in person.
You'll go, oh my God.
It's a combination of your being female and having an unbelievable memory.
I will say I do have an unbelievable memory.
In sixth grade at my elementary school, I'm really glad that they had us do this.
We had to memorize all of the countries and capitals in the world, and we were tested on them.
And I did really well on that because I really have been blessed with an incredible memory.
I love that you had to do that.
I know.
In sixth grade?
In sixth grade.
Do you still remember them?
I can remember many of them.
Of course, now you're going to start quizzing me.
Well, I am curious.
I think, first of all, so I learned all the Capitals in about sixth grade, but not at school.
Yeah, you did it on your own.
No, and I'll tell you how, though.
You'll really get a kick out of this.
So, you've heard of baseball cards?
Right?
Yes.
Kids collect baseball cards.
They were a big thing when I was a kid, baseball cards.
So they sold, and I would pay money.
I'm going to look it up on the internet.
I would buy them at any feasible cost.
They put out one year flag cards.
So what the card had...
Oh, I would love to have that.
Oh, you have no idea.
I relished these cards.
Even more than baseball cards.
So you had the flag of the country.
So let's say you got five cards per pack.
So you got five flags.
And then the flag in the front with some, you know, illustration of something that typifies the country.
Then you turn the card around and it had language spoken, capital, population.
It's amazing that I remember this.
Oh my gosh.
Products produced.
Where can we get this?
And then a few phrases like, how are you, my name is, in their language.
I memorized everything, even the exports.
And that is how I learned the capitals of every country.
You know, I have been doing that as just an exercise on my own.
I have a big map of the world in my room, and I label the country because, you know, I just think it's good for me to remember the location.
I can identify France on a map, but...
Croatia, I have a harder time with.
And I've been trying to look up the population, do that on my own.
How fun would it be if I could just look at cards?
I bet they don't produce them anymore.
Oh, of course not.
No one would want them.
1956?
Top flags of the world cards.
Wait, so now I know.
So there I was.
Can we buy them?
So I was seven years old.
And so it shows you how early I loved this stuff.
I love it too.
I loved that unit in sixth grade.
First of all, as I said, I do have a great memory, but it was so interesting to learn about the world and to be armed with those facts.
I bet if you quizzed me that way, you can quiz me on two or three.
All right, fine.
Okay, Colombia.
Bogota.
That was fast.
Honduras.
Oh, no.
That's a toughie.
That's a toughie.
And I've been there.
What is it?
Tegucigalpa.
Oh, yes.
I remember that.
I remember that was a hard one to spell.
I remember being a male.
I remember, oh, Tegucigalpa.
Oh, my God.
That took a moment.
Sean, what do you think of that?
Sean is not, even Sean's disgusted.
Oh, my God.
For me to gross out Sean.
Is really an achievement.
I'm thinking of, oh gosh, I'm hesitating right now.
In my brain I'm thinking, do I say this, do I not?
Well, Sean can edit it out if it's bad.
There's a Lake Titicaca.
Oh yes, the highest lake in the world in Peru.
Highest lake in the world in Peru, yes.
Lake Titicaca.
The only thing I get all the time right in Trivial Pursuit is geography.
I know this planet, and I've probably been there.
I've been to all these countries.
Boy, I want to travel as much as you.
All right, so you know your aim is 130. Boy, that's hard to me.
That is not easy.
What you'll have to do, I don't know any other way, you will have to go abroad essentially every year.
What is the favorite place you've been to?
Okay, I love the question, and there is no answer.
I loved virtually every place I have visited.
And I won't say the ones I didn't, but I don't want to insult any given country or culture, but overwhelmingly I've loved every one.
However, if one were to ask me...
Where would I most want to go back?
That might be a good way of asking the question.
Yeah, that's a better way of phrasing it.
I can't say it doesn't matter.
All 130 would bring me the same degree of interest and joy.
I get a very big kick out of India.
And so, as usual, I asked why.
Because there were two countries that I always want to go back to, Israel and India.
The two I's.
The two I's.
So, I like this about myself, if I'm allowed to say, that I always ask why.
Whether it's about me or anything.
And I go, why, Dennis?
What do India and Israel have in common?
And then I came up with an answer.
They're the only two countries with their own religion.
Isn't that interesting?
That is interesting.
Yes.
The Jewish country is Israel.
The Hindu country is India.
So when you were in India, what was it about the daily life?
Okay, so, okay.
Grabbed you.
First, Indians are live wires.
They're alive.
I mean, you see the Indians in the United States.
These people, they're bright.
They have strong opinions.
So, I enjoy Indians, and I enjoy the complete creation of a world based on a unique religion.
There are so many Christian countries, there are so many Muslim countries, but there's one...
I mean, you could say that it's not, you know, a Hindu country, there's...
There's Bali.
Bali is Hindu in the middle of Indonesia.
But as a country, India is the Hindu country.
And then there are just unique parts.
The temples are unique, obviously.
But to walk down a road or a major boulevard, not forget road, major boulevard in an Indian city, you're window shopping.
And you turn around and there's a cow behind you.
That's a kick.
That is.
I've got to admit, I've been there four times, maybe five, I think four.
I never lose the fascination of walking next to a cow on a major boulevard.
It's like going down Broadway and there are a lot of cows as well.
I actually like it.
At first, it's just holy cow.
Literally.
Yeah.
That's right.
It is literal because they're holy.
That's right.
And yet, it makes you think about the relationship to animals and the world and the soul.
Anyway, it's just a fascinating place.
It's also gorgeous.
I mean, there are places.
You know, it's a continent.
India is not a country.
India is a continent.
There's so much of it I haven't seen.
It will surpass China in terms of population in 2023. So, Sean reports it will surpass China, really?
In terms of population?
By 2023. Oh my gosh.
Wow.
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You know, I've been very lucky, Dennis, to have traveled a lot in my life.
I don't think you even know this about me.
I've been to Russia.
Really?
I went to Russia on a cruise when I was five.
And I don't remember much, but I do remember what I called the Cupcake Tower in St. Petersburg.
What is that?
I have no idea.
I've been to St. Petersburg.
It must be one of their...
I think it's a...
God.
You know, I should really know what the hell it is before I bring it up.
Well, that's true.
Sean, you've got to look this up.
That's funny.
Just look up Cupcake Tower Russia.
I think it's a church or a basilica or maybe a government, but it's in St. Petersburg.
I think the name is what made it to a five-year-old brain.
I just couldn't believe it.
The Cupcake Tower.
I remember the Matryoshka dolls.
My mom got me one of them.
They're the dolls.
You know, they're the little ones inside.
I've been to Estonia.
France, Italy, Germany.
That's a lot.
I've been to Hong Kong, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand.
Really?
Yes.
Why?
That was a trip, actually.
Your parents took you all over?
So, I've been to Europe a fair amount, but I remember during my senior year of college for spring break, I begged, begged my parents to take me to Asia.
I did an entire PowerPoint.
I came up with an itinerary.
I wanted this.
And we went, and it was one of the most extraordinary trips of my life.
And look, I mean, I don't need to tell everyone how good traveling is and how much you learn.
It's obvious.
One of the things, as you know, I loved about my trip to Israel is that the Israelis have such spirit.
They have such patriotism.
Look at what we just talked about earlier in this conversation.
When they cheers, they go, L'chaim, to life!
I just, again, I'm certainly not trying to disparage Americans, but I think that we don't, especially people in the environments that I live in, we don't live life the way that, and appreciate life the way that other people do.
Look at what you just, what did you say about people in India?
You said that they're wired.
Live wires.
They're live wires.
I just, when I go abroad, I feel like...
So are the Vietnamese, by the way.
Oh, totally.
People in Cambodia were just lovely.
They were lovely, but it's a sad country, Cambodia.
Oh, it's so sad.
Our tour guide was the sweetest, gentlest person, and his father died.
They were traumatized.
They had their own holocaust.
They did, and the world doesn't talk about it.
No, no, not at all.
And you know what else?
You know why?
They don't talk about it either.
I'll tell you why they don't, because communists did it.
Right.
That's right.
And when I went to their country, we had this tour guide and he took us to Angkor Wat and took us to these various historical sites.
And I was the one to ask about the genocide.
He didn't bring it up.
And I thought that was really interesting.
And I said to him, why aren't you bringing this up to me?
They probably told the tour guides not to.
You don't want to have a downer experience for your tourists.
A, you don't want to have a downer experience.
B, he said a lot of people don't know.
So they don't care to ask.
I went to Cambodia primarily to go to the killing field.
Oh, God.
I feel a moral obligation to honor the victims of genocide.
Yes.
So I have tried to do this everywhere.
Especially one like the one that happened in Cambodia.
We don't ever hear about it.
The first time I ever learned about it was when I watched...
Actually, Angelina Jolie made this documentary because one of her adopted children is...
You don't say Cambodian, right?
Yeah, you do.
You say Khmer?
Well, Khmer is their term.
Right.
Okay, so Cambodian.
And it's called First They Killed My Father.
Boy, you should watch that documentary.
I think the final scene, it's on Netflix, everyone, if you'd like to watch it.
It is well worth your time.
It is so moving, terribly heartbreaking.
I think the last scene of that documentary, I won't say what it is.
It's peaceful, but it's contemplative.
I think it is one of the most moving scenes in television I've ever watched.
I think about it about two or three times a week.
It is that moving.
Just a plug for that documentary.
But do you know what I'm saying, Dennis?
Maybe I didn't phrase it as eloquently as I should have, about how people abroad seem to appreciate and live life more fully than most Americans.
Sometimes I feel like we're going through the motions here.
Well, on behalf of Americans, it's important to note...
You have lived in a deadened world.
Oh, that's totally what I mean.
The world of Harvard or any university is a dead world.
They're emotionally dead.
And it's a virtue.
They have the NPR passion.
None.
Yes.
To sound like an NPR reporter.
Oh, so dry and monotone.
Yes.
That is the ideal.
And I remember, do you know, I wrote in my diary in high school.
One of the only regrets of my life is that I didn't continue it, but I am inherently lazy, as I point out often.
That's hilarious, by the way.
The author of ten books in a nationally syndicated radio show is lazy.
I overcome it a lot, but I didn't overcome it with the diary.
Anyway, I remember writing something to the effect that to show passion is like...
It's forbidden in this generation.
Totally.
And that was so long ago.
That's the baby boomers who were pretty old today.
So this goes back some time, but it's far worse on the left.
Yes.
The only emotion you're allowed to show is anger.
Yes.
I should have clarified.
Look, it is especially prevalent in the environments that I'm in.
Deadened way of life.
And I just, again, when I went to Israel, I couldn't believe how alive they were.
Yes, that's true.
And I just, I realized, oh, here we have the Cupcake Tower.
Thank you, Rick.
That's the Cupcake Tower?
Okay, what is it called?
Please humiliate me.
The name speaks, it says Church of the Savior on Spilled Blood.
Okay, so it is a church.
Yeah, but where does he get Cupcake Tower?
It looks like cupcakes.
You see the spires?
Okay, with all respect, there is not a mention at all here.
Cupcake Tower?
Well, I called it the Cupcake Tower.
Oh, you called it the Cupcake Tower?
People don't call it the Cupcake Tower.
Oh, I thought...
I will say...
I'm supposed to know that.
Come on.
You're supposed to be able to read my mind, James.
Well, that's right.
Okay, but I will say, in fairness to myself, I think I called it the Cupcake Tower.
But when I say to people...
I went to Russia, and the one thing I remember is that cupcake tower.
They know what you're talking about?
They know what I'm talking about.
Because I think it has been observed before that the spires do look like cupcakes.
Please look it up, dear listeners, and email me.
Weigh in on this debate.
I love that architecture.
That's the Russian Orthodox architecture.
This is the one thing I remember.
We actually have a family photo in front of it that I treasure.
I have to say, the Eastern and Western churches, They're cathedrals.
If you don't feel...
I mean, I'm a Jew saying this, and yet I walk into any of these cathedrals, I immediately feel closer to God.
Oh, completely.
I don't know how you don't.
Again, that's why I think Israel meant so much to me.
When I went to the Western Wall and when I went to the Basilica of the Annunciation, that was...
I did feel closer to God.
By the way, I thought of this when you were mentioning the card game.
When I went to the Basilica of the Annunciation in Nazareth, they have this wall that surrounds the basilica, and on the wall they have a picture that has been donated by each country of the Virgin Mary.
Each country was tasked with providing this basilica with their own image.
That was one of the more fascinating...
The basilica of the Annunciation were...
Where?
Oh, in Israel.
In Israel, in Nazareth.
Oh, fascinating.
And they have...
I have pictures.
I can show it to you after we're done recording.
I would show them to you now, but that'd probably be kind of boring for our listeners.
But Google this, you guys.
It's really, really fun.
And, you know, China obviously depicts...
The Virgin Mary looking like a Chinese woman.
You see the motifs of each country and the way that they not only view the Virgin Mary, but the way that they depict people.
It is fascinating.
It taught me so much about those nations.
You know, I know you.
How long do I know you now?
Two years?
Two years.
Almost two years.
Not even two years.
I know it does.
You really resonate to the loss that has taken place with the death of God and religion.
I do.
Which I think three years ago would have been foreign to your thinking.
You know, I do remind myself, you're right, you're absolutely right about that, but I do remind myself that at the beginning of my, I like to call it my journey, that summer of 2020 when I discovered your work, My mom actually reminded me the other day that before I even read your books, I was trying to educate myself more on religion.
I actually ordered this book by Max Anders.
It's called 30 Days to Understanding the Bible.
It's just a very simple introductory book.
And I really was trying to get it.
So I think that there was something that maybe it was...
Sped up by COVID, or maybe it was just my getting older and realizing that these secular environments that I'm in can be quite desiccating.
But there was something that happened to me that summer that motivated me and made me see it in some capacity.
Because look, I had to at some level understand the loss in order to take the first step to read your book and to read this Max Anders book.
I'd like you to ask me, not today, we don't have the time, why I have spent so much more time writing and talking about the importance of God than the existence of God, and why I think that is what every single clergyman and religious spokesman and writer should do.
May I endeavor to answer your question?
Yeah.
Well, this is something that I've been thinking of because a lot of people ask me, what if this is all a hoax?
What if it isn't true?
What if religion really is just made up and humans wrote the Bible, there's no such thing as God?
I would still say, so what?
So what?
This makes you live better.
It makes you a happier person following these values.
It has certainly created the best civilization in the entire history of the universe.
What is the loss if you take God and the Bible seriously?
Yes, there's no loss.
Compared to what is the loss if you don't?
Exactly.
It's monumental.
Is that close to what you were going to say?
Yes.
Well, of course, it's one aspect, but now you're tempting me to start to answer the question.
Please, start answering.
Well, no, it's...
Okay, in a nutshell, we should do it at length, but in a nutshell, it's partially...
Because of its importance to me, the importance of God rather than just the existence.
But the biggest reason is...
If you believe God exists but don't understand why that's significant, it's the same as atheism.
It's useless.
That is exactly right.
And they don't.
So that's why most people do believe in God, but it's pointless.
They believe in what I call a celestial butler, as you've heard me say so often.
I love that.
You know, take care of me.
I need the following.
Have a great day.
What does this God want from you?
Or why is murder not wrong if God isn't behind do not murder?
Oh boy, is that true.
That's the stuff that matters.
Or as I open the introduction to my rational Bible, why did I honor my parents every single day of my life, even when I had hard times with them when I was younger?
Because I believe God instructed me.
To honor your father and mother in the Ten Commandments.
And by the way, in the Ten Commandments, I point out from the Hebrew, which thank God I know well, it's all in the singular.
There's a singular and plural for you and for verbs in Hebrew, not in English.
So honor your father and mother could be you individually or your whole people.
But in Hebrew, it's in the singular.
God is directing the Ten Commandments to you.
Right.
Boy, is that important.
Oh, it's unbelievably important.
You know, you raise such a good point that you really have to understand it, understand the importance that is of God and what he wants out of us rather than just believing in his existence.
I found that to be the case, if I can make an imperfect analogy, to my schooling.
I remember in high school I would get, you know, the bare bones of something, but because I was Always trying to learn something so that I would perform well on the test.
I didn't really understand the significance, and now that I'm 22 years old, I know that Shakespeare wrote many sonnets.
I can tell you that there's a sonnet 79, and I can tell you the bare bones of things.
I don't remember what's significant about sonnet 79. I don't remember.
And in a way, that's a failure, because I can take away something very bare bones, but the thing that really matters, I can't...
I can't remember.
By the way, on that subject, do you think your high school is still teaching Shakespeare sonnets?
No, I do not.
I don't know that for certain.
They very well could be, but my high school has gone down the drain.
And it is very sad to me.
I mentioned to you a few minutes ago that I'm very grateful in many respects for my high school experience.
I had wonderful teachers.
I do think that there was a culture of...
Doing well on exams that I think should have been not as emphasized, but of course I blame myself for that.
That really came from me.
Anyway, I have great things to say about the high school that I went to.
I'm very sad about what my high school has turned into.
Ready for this?
Oh, you're going to get a load of this one.
They have now something called healing rooms.
So if you're in a class and someone says something that you don't like, the entire class goes to a healing room.
That is led by one of the school counselors.
Wait, I want to get that clear.
You are hurt by or object to something that was said.
That was said.
Who goes to the healing room?
The entire class.
It's what I thought you said, and I didn't understand that.
Not you who was hurt?
Nope.
The entire class goes to the healing room for a session.
Ready for this?
If the teacher says something that you don't like, the teacher is summoned to the healing room.
And actually, I think that you do go first individually, and then oftentimes the class comes too.
I've also heard that if you cheat on a test, you go to the healing room.
You're kidding me.
No.
You can retake tests at my high school multiple times because apparently that's equity.
Homework doesn't count anymore.
Participation doesn't count because some people don't feel comfortable participating.
Dennis, you would not believe what a radical shift this is.
When I was in high school, I actually think it was unhealthy in the other direction.
We had so much work retaking tests.
Are you kidding?
I assume women run that school.
Right, so that's a given why I assume that, but it's true for most schools.
Whenever people say, It's a common stupid cliche.
Oh, the world, if it was run by women, it would be much better.
I know.
Oh, really?
You think your schools are better?
They're all run by women.
I know.
That's my immediate answer.
You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
I know, and I'm sorry to say it as a woman myself, but it's true.
It is true.
My school has gone down the drain because they have succumbed to the emotional, woke.
Crap.
What happens in the healing room, do you know?
Oh, I have no idea.
Oh, so we know the safe spaces.
I want to go undercover.
You should.
In that healing room.
I would really love to know.
Do you know any kids who are there now?
I do.
Well, this is how I'm getting my information.
So ask them what goes on in the healing room, because I know what goes on in some safe spaces at college.
It's called safe space.
Yes.
Oh, I know.
So you get stuffed animals to play with.
You watch...
Videos of kittens frolicking.
You get hot chocolate.
You get to use Play-Doh.
This is for college-age kids.
Oh, totally.
Oh, yeah.
I'm sure they had one at Harvard.
Did they have a safe space at Harvard?
I mean, I wouldn't know.
I wouldn't pay attention.
I know, but I am curious.
I can imagine that they did.
But my high school, it's really scary.
It has...
Made such a 180 and I'm, you know, I graduated what four years ago?
It's not like I've been out for 20 years.
No, it's beyond belief how fast.
You cannot believe how different my high school experience was.
We had no healing room.
You might as well have gone when I did.
Oh my gosh.
That's right.
It's really sad.
Your high school experience is closer to me 50 years earlier than it is to kids four years earlier.
Yes.
Four years later.
I know.
You know, I've thought about going back and speaking.
I don't know if they would have me.
They probably want to revoke my diploma at this point, which is so sad.
I was so beloved, if I do say so myself, at that school, when I went to that school.
Now I'm sure they're ashamed to have me be an alumna, but I wear that with a badge of honor, because if a woke school is ashamed to have me as an alumna, then that means I've done something right.
But I think about going back there.
And I'm not kidding.
I think if I got up and I said something really, really benign, like, I don't know, what's a very benign statement?
Yeah, men don't give birth.
The police are good.
We need police to protect us.
I think they would throw tomatoes at me.
Even if I just said something, like, homework should count.
Participation should count.
I'm not kidding.
I think I would be booed out of there after one minute.
Oh, and ready for this, just to add to the list, many of the students still voluntarily wear N95s to school.
They mandated that students wear masks to school this past year.
I think in March they said it was optional.
And I was told by someone I know who goes to that school that nearly the entire student body still wears them.
Really?
Yes.
These are young, healthy girls.
Teenage girls.
The least affected group of all by young people in general, not boys or girls, doesn't matter.
What was the statistic I read on the air, actually?
And it was from the Washington Post, so it came from a woke source, that more young people committed suicide and died from drugs than from COVID. Fentanyl is the number one cause of death in 18 to 25 or something like that.
But I even think suicides alone...
Yes.
I think suicide's number two.
Boy, how sad.
This world...
No, I know.
I can't tell you...
Unfortunately, I have a lot of material for a book.
I wish I didn't.
I wish I had no material to write that book, but I've got an excess of material.
I think if you write What the Left Has Done to My Generation...
I'm writing it now.
You will...
You will not only do a service, but you'll have a bestseller on your hands.
I do believe that.
And you know what?
Again, that actually makes me sad.
That makes me sad that that kind of book would be a bestseller.
That's correct.
I wrote a piece, you should look it up, years and years ago, before wokeness really was even a term, about how my generation owes yours an apology.
You kind of do.
But also, as you know, we both care very much about the power of the individual.
No, clearly.
I mean, the outlier is the key.
Yes.
As I have learned in all of my life.
Good stuff.
Good stuff.
This was fun.
Okay, you guys, you can email me at julie at julie-hartman.com and I want to know if you think it is a fair characterization to call this thing the Cupcake Tower.
Oh my god.
This is a source of animosity between us now.
I think there are more important things for you to write Julie about.