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July 16, 2021 - Dennis Prager Show
13:08
Julie Hartman Male-Female Hour Highlights: Hook Up Culture and Feminism
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Is that entirely because of COVID? I think a lot of it has to do with COVID, but I think a lot of it is because, and this is something we talk about a lot, and I know you talk about on this hour, men don't ask women out anymore, especially at my age.
Hookup culture is very prevalent among people in their early 20s, in their teens, at college.
So I think a lot of it really has to do with that.
It's just not the culture anymore to court.
It's the culture to hit on someone and then have a one-night stand with them.
So he is more likely to hit on her for a hookup than for a date?
Yes.
That's fascinating.
That is just fascinating.
I can't emphasize that enough, how prevalent the hookup culture is.
It really, it's everywhere.
So give me the line that would be most obvious.
You know what?
Hey, you know what?
We've been here a couple of hours.
Why don't you come to my place?
Well, what are the mechanics?
I don't mean the mechanics of the sexual act, the mechanics of getting the girl to engage in the hookup.
I think you're drinking at a party, and then you start talking, and you kind of go into a corner and talk for longer, and then, you know, party's over.
I want to head back.
Right.
But just again...
I'm trying to understand the logistics.
Is come back to one's apartment, to one's dorm?
Dorm, yep.
But isn't the dorm room shared with another roommate?
Yes, and that roommate is sexiled.
They are exiled for sex.
They are sexiled, mostly.
See, I'm glad I asked because there are answers.
Yes.
How long are they sexiled for?
Sometimes the whole night.
Where do they go?
Common room, couch, they crash at someone else's dorm.
It's really not unique to where I go to school.
No, I don't think it would be unique at all.
If it was unique, it wouldn't be worth asking you the questions.
The guy or the girl who sexiled, they just know this is par for the course?
This is the way life works?
Or are they a little ticked off?
The one who is sexiled, they may be, they may sexile their roommate in the future.
So it's kind of like a give and take.
One night you're sexiled, the other night you sexile.
Does, is it usually in the boys' room?
Yeah, I would say.
Interesting.
Why do you think that is?
That's a really interesting question.
I think maybe there's an element of masculinity to it.
Right, I think that's true.
It can't be a coincidence.
It should be 50-50.
So more often, the male roommate is sexiled.
Okay.
Will, in most cases, the girl stay over the whole night?
Yes.
Do you know girls that have engaged in a hookup?
Yes.
Okay.
I have no idea what the answer is, and you may not have one.
As a general rule, are they happy afterwards?
Look, it really depends on the individual, obviously.
There are some girls who want to participate in that, and they are happy.
And you know what?
Good for them.
I'm not judging.
I'm trying to learn.
Of course.
Right.
I know you're not.
But I just wanted to say for the record.
However...
I have a lot of conversations with my female friends about this.
A lot of people are not happy with it, but they feel that they have to participate in it because it's just so common.
And I actually had a really interesting discussion with one of my friends about this the other day where it's this weird kind of feminist idea that men and women are the same, that they want the same things, that they both want sex to the same degree.
And that's just not true.
I mean, of course it depends on the individual.
But I think the reason why women participate in the hookup cultures is because we've been fed this feminist nonsense that we have the same inclinations as men most of the time.
And I think that's very harmful to women, ironically.
In this quest to be empowered, a lot of the times it's degrading.
On her first appearance on the show, which was very dramatic for reasons that those who listen know, how my ideas touched her life, and I am very grateful that they did.
But that's not the subject now.
The subject is men and women of her generation.
And then I asked you, among the women you know, Do any regret?
I even put it less dramatically.
Are they happy that they did it?
And you say it's a mixed bag, which I think resonates with me.
And then you went into the idea of feminism having told women, effectively, you're just like men, and can have emotionless sex, noncommittal sex.
Just as readily and enjoyably as men can.
And then you use the term empowerment.
Take it away.
Well, it's a phony sense of empowerment.
And the point that I want to make is that this all leads back to the modern definition of feminism.
That I think is very harmful, as we're saying, to teach women that they are the same as men.
Of course, they're equal to men.
Women are not inferior to men.
That's a very separate conversation.
But they are not the same as men.
They have different inclinations.
They have different desires.
Again, it depends on the person, obviously.
But that is what fuels so much of this hookup culture.
It's this idea that we are the same.
I think where this really comes from is that for such a long time, women couldn't participate in a hookup culture, or they had to kind of stay at home, and they couldn't be promiscuous.
So I think there's this idea that the very opposite of what was once considered oppression is now empowerment.
What was once considered oppression is women not being allowed to be promiscuous.
Now, the very opposite of that, promiscuity, is considered to be empowerment.
And that's a very harmful, in my view, way of looking at it, because that's just not true.
This is what I'm trying to say.
Equal is not the same.
Men and women are equal.
Men and women are not the same.
That is what modern-day feminism fails to account for, and that is where the root of this problem is.
I read constantly that the largest percentage of females at college that we have any records for are depressed.
Is that true?
Oh, absolutely.
And high schoolers, too.
I think it's a...
It's a greater problem than the hookup culture, though, which is a separate conversation, not for the male-female hour.
I do think a lot of it has to do with male-female relations, but I think a lot of it also has to do with homework and the pressure to get into college and the pressure, once you're in college, to land a good job in this hyper-competitive secular world where we live in, where there's no purpose beyond yourself.
The only purpose is to achieve, to get to the highest level, to land in an elite institution or an elite job.
I think a lot of that is what fuels the depression.
But bringing it back to the topic of this hour, I think a lot of it, too, has to do with male-female relations.
I can tell you, as a woman, it is depressing to me that I have not dated yet in college.
That is really depressing to me.
You want a connection before something physical.
Yes.
So do you think that that comports with female nature, or is it idiosyncratic to you?
I'll get your response when we come back.
I think that comports with female nature, totally.
But what's interesting is that if you say that, then you're not feminist.
If you say that, then you're slut-shaming.
I have a lot of friends who participate in the hookup culture, and the next morning I'll talk to them and they'll just say, Ugh, I just don't feel good.
I feel used.
I feel cheapened in a way.
But then, if you, you know, come out like I am on the radio, and you say, Hey, you know...
This whole idea of feminism that men and women want the same things and that you can just have sex with a guy and that's empowerment and that's feminism.
If you come out and say that, then you have this primitive, antiquated, oppressive way of thinking.
But the irony of it is that this harms women.
This benefits men and harms women.
It isn't the whole point to be rah-rah-rah pro-women, but it has the exact opposite effect.
It's very backward.
And what's most backward about it is if you speak out against it, then you're the enemy.
I welcome the enemy onto my show.
Kim in Los Angeles.
You're on with Julie Hartman and Dennis Prager.
Hi.
Hi, Dennis.
Hi, Julie.
I'm a long-time listener.
Thank you for having me.
I completely agree with what Julie said about hookup culture and the primary cause being the feminist movement.
I'm a little older than Julie.
I'm 29. I'm not going to lie.
I'm attractive.
I'm well-educated, graduated from a top-tier university.
I'm an attorney.
And hookup culture is still prevalent, even at my age.
We as women have been taught, you know, if men are out to get you, if men approach you on the street, don't trust it.
And some of that is good.
For example, I've been taught, you know, make sure you see where your drink is coming from.
There are some good ways to be skeptical of people who you may have a romantic encounter with.
We're taught to be so skeptical that they have different motives when they're asking you, you know, if a guy comes up to you on the street.
They're a rapist.
Or they're creepy.
And don't trust them.
Guys know this, so they don't do it.
Yes.
I do feel bad for guys.
I mean, look, guys need to do better.
I think guys need to not so much engage in the hookup culture.
And I think they do need to be more bold and ask women out on dates.
But that being said, also, we women need to do better.
And we can't be so skeptical.
And we have to reward that when a guy approaches us.
So she was talking about dating and non-dating in her generation.
She's 21. And she got an email.
So this is very spontaneous on the Dennis Prager Show.
We have just a minute.
But I thought it would be an interesting way to end the show.
Read the email that this 23-year-old from New York sent you.
Well, I get a lot of really nice mail, so I want to thank everyone, but I will read this one.
Julie, I just had to contact you.
I'm a graduate student in New York and listen to Dennis every day.
I find you to be incredibly impressive.
You have so much insight, dot, dot, dot.
P.S. I don't know if I have a bias because of your ideas, but I think you're absolutely beautiful, and I would like to...
I would take you out on a date in a second.
And so the story here is that I took a screenshot of this lovely email.
I sent it to one of my college friends.
And her response is, you don't find that creepy?
Question mark, question mark, question mark.
And I said to Dennis, and my point is proven.
I can't tell you how sad her reaction is.
This is as...
Powerful.
An example as to what has happened to men and women in the last 10-20 years, as I have encountered, there was nothing creepy about that email.
It's sweet.
But the message to men is, if you act like a man, no matter how kind, women will find you creepy.
So it's sort of either hookup or nothing.
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