Part Of The Problem - Dave Smith - Scott Horton
Aired: 2025-10-31
Duration: 01:15:55


=== The War Party's False Claims (10:26) ===

[00:00:07]  For generations, the United States has had a one-party system, the War Party.
[00:00:13]  Democrats and Republicans pretend to fight, but when push comes to shove, they both fund the war machine, and they both make the same false claims to justify it all.
[00:00:23]  Meanwhile, real people around the world have paid the ultimate price, including millions of deaths, tens of millions driven from their homes, and starvation and deprivation on a nearly unbelievable scale.
[00:00:34]  And yet in mainstream American political life, you heard barely a peep of protest about any of this.
[00:00:40]  Nobody on Sunday morning talk shows seriously dissented from the War Party.
[00:00:44]  We had fake debates, and that was it.
[00:00:46]  But now that has finally started to change.
[00:00:50]  The War Party is doing damage control as polls show younger people not buying their propaganda and alternative news sources are broadcasting the truth, finally, to the American public.
[00:01:01]  Well, I say it's time to go on a serious offensive.
[00:01:05]  You don't kick the warmongers when they're down.
[00:01:07]  When are you going to kick them?
[00:01:09]  I'm Scott Horton.
[00:01:11]  You may have seen me discussing the Middle East on the Candace Owens podcast, or debating Wesley Clark over the Russian-Ukraine war on Piers Morgan, or stomping the crap out of that tired old neocon Bill Crystal in a public debate at the Soho Forum.
[00:01:24]  For over 25 years, I've been telling the truth about the war machine and slashing through the propaganda.
[00:01:30]  Right now, the warmongers are trying to shut people up.
[00:01:33]  And no wonder, because the internet is proving their lies and clichés to be as thin as tissue paper and as bankrupt as the U.S. Treasury.
[00:01:41]  Now, look, I love it when y'all cheer me on, but I'll tell you what I'd love even more, if you guys learn this stuff alongside me, so the anti-war cause becomes just deafening.
[00:01:50]  I understand that nobody wants to start something they can't finish.
[00:01:54]  So maybe sometimes you're sitting there hearing war propaganda from your acquaintances at work or whatever, and you know it's wrong, but you feel like you don't have the overwhelming firepower to get in and win the point for peace.
[00:02:05]  Well, we're doing something about that.
[00:02:07]  Today, I'm announcing the Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom.
[00:02:12]  Instead of just listening to my show or catching me on a podcast here and there, you'll get taken step by step through everything you need to know to defend the cause of peace and civilization.
[00:02:25]  I know I talk fast.
[00:02:27]  Tom Woods calls this, Scott Horton slowed down.
[00:02:30]  It's yours truly as you've never seen or heard me before, blasting that fire hose of knowledge straight into your brain at a pace and with the level of detail you need to learn it, absorb it, and use it in your own conversations and debates.
[00:02:45]  Or maybe you're the kind of person who just hates lies.
[00:02:48]  Well, this is for you too.
[00:02:50]  The War Party has the money.
[00:02:52]  All you and I have is the truth.
[00:02:55]  So let's make the most of it.
[00:02:57]  I'll see you inside.
[00:02:59]  Soldiers, in the name of democracy, let us all unite.
[00:03:08]  What's up, everybody?
[00:03:09]  Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
[00:03:12]  We have the legend Scott Horton here with us today, and it's a big episode because it is the first day.
[00:03:19]  Well, okay, technically, I think it came out midday yesterday, but it's the first full day that the Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom is available and up.
[00:03:30]  You guys can all go check it out.
[00:03:31]  ScottHortonAcademy.com is the website.
[00:03:36]  Scott, of course, as you guys know, he's the most frequent guest here on Part of the Problem.
[00:03:40]  Obviously, I am a Hortonian.
[00:03:43]  Of course, he's the author of Fool's Errand, phenomenal book about the war in Afghanistan.
[00:03:49]  Enough already, the absolute best book that's been written about the terror wars.
[00:03:53]  And of course, most recently Provoked, the absolute best book that's been written about the war in Ukraine, or really the book is the story of the lead up to the war in Ukraine and the history of kind of post-Soviet Union-American relations.
[00:04:09]  All phenomenal books.
[00:04:10]  Of course, also, you guys know he's been working over at antiwar.com for many decades and was one of the founders of the Libertarian Institute, whose hoodie he is currently donning.
[00:04:21]  And now he's got his academy out.
[00:04:22]  So tell people about the academy and what they can get there.
[00:04:27]  Cool.
[00:04:28]  Thanks very much, man.
[00:04:29]  Yeah.
[00:04:30]  Well, it was Tom Woods' idea that essentially we replicate Tom Wood's Liberty Classroom, only we'll make it the Scott Horton Academy.
[00:04:37]  And I was a little reluctant to name it after myself, but Tom insisted that like, nope, that's what it's about.
[00:04:42]  So that's what we're naming it.
[00:04:43]  So it's all right.
[00:04:44]  Well, he's the businessman.
[00:04:46]  So he helped me to organize the thing.
[00:04:49]  And what it is, is it's me giving essentially long form courses, walking you through my last two books, enough already, and provoked.
[00:04:57]  And of course, Fool's Eren is sort of the extra long chapter two of Enough Already, if you take my meaning there.
[00:05:03]  So we walked through all that.
[00:05:05]  And then I also got a bunch of really great guys to join me in the lineup too.
[00:05:11]  So in our initial lineup of courses at the Academy, the first one is My Terror Wars course.
[00:05:17]  And then is the great Jim Bovard, the most successful libertarian journalist in America and regular writer for the New York Post currently and fellow at the Libertarian Institute.
[00:05:27]  And his course is on 40 years of hard-hitting investigative journalism.
[00:05:32]  And then we've got the great Ramsey Barud, my good friend and a regular contributor to antiwar.com for many years.
[00:05:38]  And of course, a Palestinian refugee.
[00:05:40]  And his course is called The Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict.
[00:05:44]  And then we got Bill Bupert, who is a former special forces officer and probably America's most brutal critic of the fraudulent counterinsurgency strategy of David Petraeus, the great American fraud David Petraeus and his sidekick, General James Mattis, and their bogus coin theories from back 15 years ago and so forth that really were the doctrine for expanding the Afghan war in the Obama years.
[00:06:13]  And so he's really great.
[00:06:14]  And his course is called Trail of Tears, American Stalemate and Defeat Since 1945, about the absolute disaster of the American Empire.
[00:06:23]  And man, it's all such good stuff.
[00:06:24]  I've been reviewing everything, you know, obviously at a fevered pace here for the last few days, getting everything ready to go.
[00:06:32]  And it's just so good.
[00:06:33]  And then after it went live, I got that whole other shift to my point of view where I'm like, oh, man, people are really watching it now.
[00:06:39]  So now I'm not just reviewing it.
[00:06:41]  Now I can like really put myself in other people's shoes looking at it.
[00:06:44]  And I'm like, boy, I hope they like it.
[00:06:45]  And then I'm thinking, oh, fuck yeah, this is awesome, dude.
[00:06:48]  They're going to love it.
[00:06:48]  Everybody's going to love it, Dave.
[00:06:50]  No, I mean, look, if you, if you really want to, and it's such a great, it's such an important tool for people because this is almost like the real like boot camp.
[00:07:00]  Like if you want to really, you know, if you're, if you're convinced by us or intrigued by the, you know, the arguments that people in our camp have been making and you really want to be able to speak with authority about these topics and really know what you're talking about, this is just, you go do this, make this commitment.
[00:07:17]  I mean, look, it is an academy.
[00:07:18]  This is, we're talking about like, I think you said, how, how many hours was your course?
[00:07:23]  And my course is about between 25 and 30 hours for the terror war course.
[00:07:28]  I'm afraid to tell you how long the Cold War with Russia course is, man.
[00:07:31]  It's going to be, dude, you should be.
[00:07:32]  No, you should be bragging about it.
[00:07:34]  I mean, that's what people are paying for is that you're getting this serious information.
[00:07:37]  And look, dude, I'll tell you, just like when you start getting into this stuff, it's like for those of you guys who have listened to some of those Daryl Cooper series, you know, fear and loathing in the New Jerusalem is like almost 30 hours.
[00:07:47]  I think it's right around the same thing.
[00:07:49]  But once you get into it, man, you get so into it.
[00:07:52]  And then you're just so grateful that you start, you're so grateful that the guy made it and that you started listening to it and stuff.
[00:07:57]  So highly recommend it, guys.
[00:07:59]  Go check, go check that stuff out.
[00:08:01]  So much, so much valuable information.
[00:08:03]  And of course, one of the things that's kind of a current theme in all of your work is that this isn't just recent history.
[00:08:11]  This is also understanding the story that's still currently unfolding in front of us.
[00:08:16]  And it's very, very highly relevant.
[00:08:18]  And, you know, for I remember, and I don't even mean to say this to like take to knock anybody.
[00:08:25]  It was a reasonable thing to think of at the time.
[00:08:28]  But I remember like a few years ago, you know, around the time we were like the Mises caucus was taking over the Libertarian Party.
[00:08:36]  And there were some libertarians.
[00:08:38]  And I mean, like, I don't mean like libertarians like the left wing or the woke liberal.
[00:08:42]  I mean, like in our camp, like Mises Institute, Rothbardian types who were saying like, hey, look, Dave, you're focusing so much on the terror wars and stuff, but like terror wars are pretty much all over, man.
[00:08:53]  No one really cares about that anymore.
[00:08:55]  And like, you know, I'd be like, well, no, we still got troops in Syria and, you know, Iraq, but there was a little bit of a time there when like Afghanistan had ended, the focus of the military industrial complex had shifted to Ukraine.
[00:09:07]  We still had some bases and some troops, but there wasn't like anything too major happening for a little bit there.
[00:09:13]  But now, of course, after October 7th, the 12-day war, all of this stuff is just so relevant again.
[00:09:19]  And it actually somehow, it looks like the, you know, the situation might be even more dangerous than it, than it has been since, I don't know, maybe immediately after 9-11.
[00:09:28]  So anyway, the point is this stuff is really, really relevant and understanding the past is the only way to understand what's actually going on right now.
[00:09:37]  Yeah.
[00:09:37]  And, you know, when you do, if you read enough already and provoked, or you just take, you know, my take on the Cold War and the terror wars, the stories overlap to a great degree, right?
[00:09:49]  Like the whole terror wars are going on just south of Russia during this same expansionist period by the American Empire.
[00:09:55]  And you had, of course, the very same officials involved in a lot of the planning and that kind of thing.
[00:09:59]  So, and of course, you have America playing both sides and backing the terrorist groups as long as they're killing Serbs, Russians, or Shiites, as you all know.
[00:10:07]  So if you've already read enough already and then you read Provoked, you'll be like, oh, yeah, I remember that.
[00:10:12]  And then it kind of comes together there a little bit.
[00:10:16]  But let me say too that.
[00:10:18]  So my Cold War course isn't out yet, but it's coming very soon.
[00:10:22]  And not only that, but we're also going to be adding the great CJ Kilmer from the Dangerous History podcast.
[00:10:28]  And his course, yeah, his course is on how Woodrow Wilson is the worst person who ever lived.

=== Bizarre Lies After Death (08:01) ===

[00:10:33]  And see, I'm really mad.
[00:10:35]  Well, I'm half mad about that because I wanted to do that course.
[00:10:39]  I hate Woodrow Wilson more than you and everybody else too.
[00:10:43]  And hell, my pseudonym on the Pirate Radio was Philip Drew.
[00:10:48]  I'm here to squabble about Woodrow Wilson, man, but no, I guess you can't.
[00:10:52]  You got to delegate, Dave.
[00:10:53]  You got to delegate.
[00:10:54]  We got C.J. Kilmer, who is such an awesome historian and knows about a million times more about it than I do.
[00:11:00]  Yeah, about if you're going to delegate, that's about as good as someone you could delegate that task to.
[00:11:05]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:05]  And he knows way more about Wilson than me, of course.
[00:11:08]  So that's going to be killer.
[00:11:09]  And then check this out, man.
[00:11:10]  We got this guy, Adam Francisco, and he was recruited by Tom Woods.
[00:11:15]  And he's a Lutheran scholar and minister from the Concordia University system.
[00:11:21]  And he's doing a course on, I take it from the outline that I saw, the entire history of Christians, Jews, and Israel going back 2,000 years.
[00:11:33]  Wow.
[00:11:34]  Including everything.
[00:11:36]  End with an emphasis at the end on how ain't it funny how in the 19th century, some kooks invented Christian Zionism and how none of Christianity ever included any of that before, and how Joseph Darby ain't exactly Mark, the Gospel author, who was inspired by the word of God.
[00:11:57]  Now, and I gotta say i'm not the greatest arbiter as to which words of Bible are true or whatever, but I think this guy Francisco, is gonna cover my bases there and I think people are gonna really, you know, enjoy this.
[00:12:09]  This is something that's, of course, very important to Tom Woods.
[00:12:12]  He's Catholic and he doesn't buy into this John Hageite crap at all and um, and is really frustrated, I think, by modern American.
[00:12:20]  It's only one faction or a couple of factions of American protestants who believe in this stuff.
[00:12:24]  It's not even all evangelicals, it's even only some evangelicals and some factions of Baptists and Methods and whatever.
[00:12:30]  But there are great many American protestants who don't believe in this stuff at all.
[00:12:35]  And here's, like the real expert on you know the you know he's a, he's a believer, but also a scholar on the religion itself can explain the discrepancy here about why you, John Hagey is obviously a blasphemer.
[00:12:49]  He probably doesn't even believe in god at all.
[00:12:51]  He's probably just, you know, compromised by his railing Mossad agents taking pictures of him victimizing some poor child somewhere, or something like that.
[00:12:58]  I don't know how anyone could go to John Hagey's church and not think hey, wait a minute, I bet this guy's one of them, pedophiles from the island.
[00:13:06]  That's why he's telling me to believe i'm gonna go to hell if I don't help fund Israel killing children.
[00:13:12]  He's one of them.
[00:13:13]  Island guys.
[00:13:14]  I bet that's what I would say if I lived in San Antonio.
[00:13:16]  That's all well, it's funny.
[00:13:19]  Um yeah, I saw uh today um, both Tom Woods and Daryl Cooper were arguing with some other Christian about this on twitter and they're, you know real deal devout Christians and like which me and you aren't.
[00:13:31]  But it was pretty funny, I said.
[00:13:33]  Tom Woods at one point just said he goes.
[00:13:35]  Yeah, I guess on our side we have 1800 years of all of Christendom and on your side you have Darby, like maybe, maybe our sard's coming up a little bit more on time, and then that Daryl had a whole long thing about it which again, like i'm no, you know, like i'm no expert, i'm no Christian, but it just seems to me the overwhelming, just like on a pure human level, you know, you just go.
[00:13:57]  So the idea, like you believe that Jesus won't come back and save you all unless the Jews control Israel, and you believe that when God in the Bible refers to Israel, he's talking about the government that was formed in 1948, just on its face, seems so absurdly ridiculous like, like it.
[00:14:16]  Just it seems to me to be on like, even when they'll point to, like the different passages that say, and God says, you must always bless Israel, and you're like yeah, but wouldn't this be like me naming my son Jesus Christ and then telling you that God has commanded you to worship my son?
[00:14:31]  Look, it's right here in the bible.
[00:14:33]  It's like yeah, but you named him after that because of that.
[00:14:37]  Like, that doesn't count, you anyway, what?
[00:14:39]  It just seems bizarre to me.
[00:14:41]  I do, I want to get into some stuff with you uh, as I always do uh, but I thought we we could maybe talk about this Josh Hammer piece a little bit because uh uh, beside the piece itself and then the the big controversy that's been going on on twitter for the last 10 hours or so, I think there's just it's a good springboard to talk about a lot of these issues, but for people who don't know right.
[00:15:04]  So there's this guy, Josh Hammer.
[00:15:06]  He's a uh, a senior editor over at Newsweek.
[00:15:09]  Um I, I debated him twice.
[00:15:12]  Uh, I debated him at Princeton University and then, much more famously, I debated him at Charlie Kirk's last uh, big event.
[00:15:20]  Um before, well before, the big event, where you know.
[00:15:23]  By the way, I have to correct you, Dave Smith, because of something that I saw that you said on twitter he is known for one more thing than that, And that was he was on camera palling around with Yair Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel's son, and is his close personal friend.
[00:15:42]  Yes, so he is, how do you even say this?
[00:15:47]  Yes, he has far.
[00:15:50]  Yes, he like seems to be the one who, look, we did a response in our members only episode about his bizarre response after Charlie Kirk's been was killed, where he's just talking about how much Charlie loved his book and how much Charlie came to him for advice and just a very bizarre thing to be saying.
[00:16:10]  Also, it ended up looking really bad because he lied through his fucking teeth about Charlie Kirk after he died and said that it was an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory to claim that he was turning against Israel.
[00:16:21]  And then it came out that he had, he was on the text thread where Charlie had said 24 hours before he died that he was turning on Israel.
[00:16:28]  All of that aside, he wrote a piece for the Daily Mail about our good friend Tucker Carlson hosting Nick Fuentes the other day on his podcast.
[00:16:39]  The piece, I'll read from it here, is titled, Tucker Carlson just hit a new low with this heinous betrayal of my friend Charlie Kirk, who is surely now rolling in his grave by Josh Hammer.
[00:16:54]  Now, by the way, already just a disgusting, like, I don't know.
[00:16:59]  It's just so, so disgusting.
[00:17:01]  It's one thing to have a debate about Charlie Kirk and where he was in the days before he died or what type of pressure there was on him, or even have a conversation about what the real story is.
[00:17:13]  Are the feds really getting to the bottom of what happened or any oddities in the actual shooting?
[00:17:18]  But to just invoke Charlie Kirk and go, he wouldn't approve of this.
[00:17:22]  Like, it's like, what?
[00:17:24]  Who cares?
[00:17:25]  Who needed Charlie Kirk's permission to ever do anything?
[00:17:27]  Like, let the man rest.
[00:17:28]  But that being said, it's not like he was all of our fathers or something like that.
[00:17:32]  It's just a very bizarre thing.
[00:17:33]  Now, this next one, I got to say, full admission, I didn't even catch this, but the great Dave DeCamp, one of the best war journalists in the United States of America, and of course, one of the guys, one of the most prolific writers at antiwar.com, he pointed this out to me.
[00:17:50]  But the first sentence of the article is he says, on Monday evening, the most dangerous man in America sat to interview a confused millennial.
[00:17:59]  And you go, I just can't believe that Josh himself and no one at the Daily Mail like knows what a millennial is.
[00:18:07]  Like nobody thought to correct that.
[00:18:10]  Josh, you're a millennial.
[00:18:12]  I'm a millennial.
[00:18:13]  Nick Fuentes is not a millennial.
[00:18:15]  Anyway, that is the least important part of all of this, but it just goes to show you by the way for making me feel old because I'm Generation X.
[00:18:22]  Yeah, that's well.
[00:18:23]  You young whippersnappers.
[00:18:25]  Yeah, we used to, it is a weird thing.
[00:18:26]  It is funny, though, that millennial, I do still associate it in some way.
[00:18:29]  Like I get the mistake Josh made because you kind of associate it with like, no, that's the young, that's the young bucks, millennials.

=== Most Dangerous Man Interviewed (03:07) ===

[00:18:34]  Like, no, no, no.
[00:18:36]  I like the part about the most dangerous man in America.
[00:18:38]  I do.
[00:18:39]  He's not talking about, he's not talking about Daniel Ellsberg, the liberator of the Pentagon Papers.
[00:18:44]  Nixon used that phrase to describe the great hero Daniel Ellsberg.
[00:18:47]  No, it's Tucker Carlson.
[00:18:49]  As though that phrase would ever be used to describe anyone but a hero doing the right thing against the forces of evil.
[00:18:55]  Of course.
[00:18:55]  That guy's the most dangerous man in America.
[00:18:57]  Oh, yeah, why?
[00:18:58]  Because he's telling the truth to millions of people and there's nothing you can do about it.
[00:19:02]  Oh, I can see why you're frustrated then.
[00:19:04]  Yes.
[00:19:05]  And also, isn't it, but isn't there also something revealing for the Josh Hammer, kind of Ben Shapiro, Mark Levin, Bill Crystal, you know, any of these types that when it comes down to, that's right.
[00:19:17]  That's right.
[00:19:18]  They consider Tucker Carlson the most dangerous.
[00:19:21]  These, all these conservatives, while literally like a third of the country still believes in trans and your kids or whatever, while the government is like 70 socialist, we're 38 trillion dollars in debt.
[00:19:33]  The uh young, young people are having sex out of marriage is the norm in this country.
[00:19:38]  There's about a million abortions a year.
[00:19:41]  There's I don't know what we got 30 million illegal immigrants in this country.
[00:19:44]  But who's the number one enemy?
[00:19:46]  Who's the most dangerous guy?
[00:19:48]  Not any of the people pushing any of that.
[00:19:50]  It's the guy who is saying we should not be in bed with Israel and we should not continue fighting wars in the Middle East on their behalf.
[00:19:58]  That's the most dangerous man in America Scott, and doesn't that just say it?
[00:20:02]  All right there?
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[00:21:28]  All right, let's get back into the show.
[00:21:30]  Well, it goes back to what we were saying before about and and of course, Tucker wears this Christianity and his Christian ethics on his sleeve here and where he's essentially asking not to put words in his mouth.
[00:21:40]  But wait a minute.

=== Defining Violence and Cruelty (13:35) ===

[00:21:42]  We're supposed to believe that we're mandated to support Israel and any means that they may employ toward whatever ends they determine.
[00:21:51]  Right?
[00:21:52]  The same guy who wrote and spoke the sermon on the Mount is the same guy who says yes, the look, you must assist the Likud in killing children until he returns.
[00:22:04]  That's not really in there, man.
[00:22:06]  Come on, you got to be just swimming in bs and want to believe you?
[00:22:10]  Break that down for a minute.
[00:22:11]  There's no way in the world that that's true, when you know it's like Max Blumenthal's book Goliath, where Israel is the overlord here.
[00:22:18]  Let's not pretend they're the underdog in this thing at all.
[00:22:21]  This is this whole thing, for the last two years has been a canned hunt over there, fish in a barrel, you know, slaughtering people who are helpless captives.
[00:22:28]  Give me a break, you know?
[00:22:30]  Yeah it's, it's hilarious, it's funny when they Try to describe themselves still as, because, as people, you know, for people who know the history a little bit, it really was.
[00:22:38]  And actually, in fact, people, a lot of people credit, I'm sorry, Arafat, Yasser Arafat, with being the first one who really changed the conversation around.
[00:22:49]  But of course, in the 1948 war, right, it was a war between the surrounding Arab states and the Israelis.
[00:22:58]  And then in the 67 war, they fought a war against, you know, Jordan and Egypt.
[00:23:03]  And there was the war in the 50s.
[00:23:04]  And so the like the way that people thought of it was always the Jews versus the Arabs.
[00:23:11]  Like that's the conflict.
[00:23:13]  And so then that allowed Israel to, even though it's always been a little bit disingenuous, but they could claim, look, we're this tiny little country in a sea of all these Arabs.
[00:23:22]  And you'll still see people today who will do this really shady thing where they'll go, oh, look, if you look at foreign aid, Israel gets a little bit, but if you add up all the, you know, the Muslim states around them, they get more foreign aid than Israel does.
[00:23:35]  And you're like, yeah, but they're paid to be friends with Israel.
[00:23:38]  So like, yes, it's true.
[00:23:39]  If you add up Egypt and Jordan and Saudi Arabia and the UAE and all of their foreign aid, you get more than Israel.
[00:23:46]  Just Egypt plus one, you probably get more than Israel.
[00:23:49]  But that's not the point.
[00:23:49]  The point is that that's more foreign aid to Israel.
[00:23:51]  That's just paying other people to be friends with Israel.
[00:23:54]  And so the thing is that, and this really like got demonstrated when Iran sent those missiles before the 12-day war, when Iran sent those missiles after Israel had killed an Iranian in Syria.
[00:24:05]  And it was Jordan and Saudi Arabia and the UAE and of course the United States of America who all came in to defend Israel.
[00:24:11]  And so it's just become more and more obvious that, no, actually, you could say Israel's only the size of New Jersey.
[00:24:16]  Okay, what's Gaza the size of Western New Jersey, right?
[00:24:20]  So it's, it's right, it is.
[00:24:21]  And that's why Max's framing as Goliath is so important.
[00:24:26]  Yeah.
[00:24:26]  And you know, it is, I mean, they work so hard on that construct that it's poor little Israel besieged.
[00:24:31]  They want to push all the Jews into the sea.
[00:24:33]  They're completely surrounded by enemies, whatever.
[00:24:35]  Now, the whole narrative is totally true.
[00:24:37]  It's just in negative.
[00:24:39]  You take that black and white story, you turn it in negative and zoom in.
[00:24:43]  And it's the Israelis have the poor besieged Palestinians of the Gaza Strip in this ghetto by the sea, no escape, you know, either exterminating them or threatening to exterminate them at all times and all of that.
[00:24:55]  It's just the Israelis are the aggressors in the story.
[00:24:58]  It's the same story, just with the names changed around, you know?
[00:25:02]  Yeah, no, it is.
[00:25:03]  Yeah.
[00:25:03]  So no wonder Josh Hammer and the Hasbar Brigade are panicking about Tucker Carlson because everybody knows Tucker Carlson.
[00:25:10]  Tucker Carlson's a nice guy.
[00:25:11]  He's like, yeah, geez, I don't know.
[00:25:13]  All this cruelty conflicts with my nice guyness.
[00:25:16]  I don't think I'm really for that.
[00:25:18]  And so where does that leave you when your argument is, no, the cruelty is really necessary.
[00:25:23]  We got to continue with the cruelty.
[00:25:25]  And anyone who disagrees with that, well, you just hate Jews.
[00:25:28]  I mean, give me a break.
[00:25:29]  Nobody's buying this anymore.
[00:25:31]  They're desperate.
[00:25:32]  I mean, I can see it in my Twitter notifications that, oh, yeah, well, you must have got money from Cutter.
[00:25:38]  Yeah, dude.
[00:25:39]  Okay.
[00:25:40]  Try harder next time.
[00:25:41]  Come up with something.
[00:25:42]  What are you going to do?
[00:25:43]  They're so out of arguments.
[00:25:45]  It's ridiculous.
[00:25:45]  Well, it's also, I just say, from my perspective personally, it's just been what's been really funny about it is that it's like, guys, two years ago, you wanted everyone to believe that I was a puppet of Vladimir Putin.
[00:26:00]  Like, I mean, I know you get the same thing, but like, I guess so much of this, they go, and now what?
[00:26:04]  Now it just switched?
[00:26:05]  Like, what did the Russian funding drive?
[00:26:07]  I guess I'm still getting the Russian funding, but now I'm also getting Qatari funding to except the fact they've, none of us are.
[00:26:12]  It's just all, it's so ridiculous.
[00:26:14]  It's the dumbest goddamn thing ever.
[00:26:16]  Anyway, I want to get to the point because this was really the thing that created this whole controversy.
[00:26:21]  Now, just to keep in mind here, because I really do want to stress this, a couple of things.
[00:26:26]  Two things that I just want to like preface this with to be very clear.
[00:26:29]  Number one, I really never am.
[00:26:32]  And you could look back through the whole history of this show.
[00:26:34]  I'm never the guy who's like clutching pearls about language.
[00:26:38]  I understand that we all use, we all engage in hyperbole.
[00:26:41]  I always thought it was kind of stupid when people would make compilations of like, look, here's Maxine Waters saying we got to fight, fight, fight.
[00:26:48]  What do you think's going to happen?
[00:26:49]  People are going to get beat up or something.
[00:26:51]  It's like, okay, we're all guilty of that.
[00:26:53]  Now, look, there is somewhat of a fair point that a lot of people have made that like, look, we've seen, obviously, Donald Trump got shot a little over a year ago, and then Charlie Kirk got murdered.
[00:27:04]  And we all saw this.
[00:27:05]  And it is, there is a reasonable point, as Josh Hammer himself made, that, hey, some of this rhetoric does get a little bit reckless and it can lead to violence.
[00:27:15]  Now, that doesn't mean you can blame anybody for violence if they didn't incite it.
[00:27:19]  But I just want to say that, like, I'm not someone to jump on these type of things, but I do think that all of us, after Charlie Kirk got killed, at least were a little bit more aware of like, okay, let's hope we can tone down this conversation and not lead to more violence that a lot of us were concerned might happen in the wake of Charlie's death.
[00:27:37]  But so that's number one.
[00:27:38]  Number two, this article is about Charlie Kirk.
[00:27:41]  It's about what Charlie Kirk would have thought of this interview.
[00:27:44]  It's invoking this, the biggest political assassination of our lifetimes to discuss this.
[00:27:50]  And he ends the article by saying, and I'll read this verbatim.
[00:27:55]  He's talking about Fuentes and Tucker Carlson and the rot that's on the right wing.
[00:27:59]  He says the fox is now comfortably ensconced in the hen house.
[00:28:03]  And unless the fox is neutralized, the victim could be the entire extent GOP coalition itself.
[00:28:12]  And that's the final line of the article.
[00:28:15]  And again, Josh Hammer, nobody at Daily Mail seemed to think like, hey, maybe don't use an eradication metaphor when talking about these two guys.
[00:28:28]  And I'm just saying that like it is, look, dude, that's pretty damn hard to defend, I think.
[00:28:34]  And look, I'll just say this and then I want to get your thoughts on the comment and then we could have a broader conversation about this.
[00:28:41]  But look, Nick Fuentes came on my podcast.
[00:28:44]  Nick Fuentes went on Tucker's significantly, slightly larger podcast a couple of weeks later.
[00:28:52]  And in both of these shows, we kind of, you know, say confronted, but that we brought up the topic of like Jew hatred and racial hatred and things like that.
[00:29:04]  Now, me, I'm a Jewish libertarian and Tucker's a Christian.
[00:29:07]  So he kind of approached it in more of a Christian way.
[00:29:09]  But I basically was saying like, hey, you can't blame the Jews.
[00:29:13]  You can blame this Jew or this Jew.
[00:29:16]  And you can certainly blame the Israel lobby and the Israeli government.
[00:29:19]  But then again, there's a whole lot of non-Jews who are in that there too.
[00:29:23]  And then again, there's a whole lot of Jews who sure are big critics of all this stuff.
[00:29:26]  So it doesn't really make sense to say the Jews.
[00:29:28]  This collectivism doesn't make sense.
[00:29:30]  To which Nick kind of responded, yeah, that's right.
[00:29:33]  Not all Jews are guilty, but there are a lot who are whatever.
[00:29:36]  And then Tucker made the point that Christians can't believe in collective guilt and collective punishment.
[00:29:41]  And Nick basically agreed.
[00:29:42]  Now, I'm just saying, whether you take him at his word or not, or if you want to say, hey, he said other stuff in the past that contradicts that, or if you think me and Tucker should have, you know, been more aggressive, grilling him, all fair points to, or fair opinions to have.
[00:29:55]  But if Nick Fuentes had come on the show and we had said, well, look, you say it's the Jews.
[00:30:01]  I'm saying it's the Israel lobby.
[00:30:03]  And if he went, Jews are the fox in the hen house and they must be, you know what I'm saying?
[00:30:11]  Like if he had said that, don't tell me for a goddamn second that Josh Hammer would not be losing his mind and that that wouldn't have been what this entire article was about.
[00:30:21]  This entire article would have been about him using this clearly exterminist language.
[00:30:27]  And of course, Josh now has responded by basically saying we're all bad faith actors bringing this up, trying to twist his words.
[00:30:35]  And then he's saying that, look, if you look at the definition of neutralized, it could also mean these other things.
[00:30:41]  He actually like cropped out of the definition, the part where it said, like number three, a military term used to eliminate a target.
[00:30:49]  But the truth is that what do you, the fox in the hen house, like, what is he suggesting that the farmer was going to do what?
[00:30:59]  Debate the fox?
[00:31:00]  I mean, what is, what is the clear metaphor here?
[00:31:02]  And so I don't know.
[00:31:03]  I just think this is, it's, it's the, the recklessness of it and the outrageous hypocrisy are just too much.
[00:31:11]  Yeah.
[00:31:12]  Well, um, yes, of course, he and or the editors could have changed it to, we're going to have to figure out a way to solve this problem and just left it at that, neutralize this threat.
[00:31:25]  As you say, yeah, it's right there in the definition.
[00:31:27]  He had to crop it out of the dictionary.com definition of that term because people know what know what it means.
[00:31:35]  And of course, Josh Hammer is apparently smart enough to know that he can't directly incite violence against someone because of the Brandenburg decision, a direct incitement to violence.
[00:31:47]  That can get you in trouble, like taking out a hit on a guy or saying to a mob, come on, guys, let's get him or something like that.
[00:31:54]  No, that'll get you imprisoned.
[00:31:56]  You know, that's a violation of the law kind of thing.
[00:31:58]  But what you can write in the Daily Mail is, boy, if only someone would rid us of this troublesome menace in this guy with his podcast that we really don't like.
[00:32:09]  And then just hoping that someone from the Jewish Defense League is out there, you know, willing to go to prison for it is obviously what he's doing there.
[00:32:17]  That's his motive for writing it that way.
[00:32:19]  You got to wonder who at the Daily Mail published it in that context like that.
[00:32:24]  But then also, put that aside for a moment, too, because I think whatever, I just agree with what you said mostly.
[00:32:32]  But also, what's the threat of Tucker Carlson?
[00:32:36]  Did Tucker Carlson say, if everybody doesn't bend to my will, then I'm going to destroy the Republican coalition or anything like that?
[00:32:45]  Has he broken with Donald Trump over Donald Trump Zionism?
[00:32:49]  No.
[00:32:50]  And so doesn't it kind of sound like a not very subtle way of Josh Hammer is actually the one who's threatening to destroy the Republican coalition and say that he's not willing to tolerate anti-Zionists in the right.
[00:33:05]  And that if you guys don't bend to my will one way or the other by isolating this guy or kicking him out, now that he's crossed my line, well, then just think of what I can do to you, which I don't think he has much power, but he may be at least imagining that he's speaking for other people.
[00:33:22]  And I think it's very true that both political parties are extremely dependent on Zionist money to operate.
[00:33:29]  Votes are votes, but dollars and dollars.
[00:33:31]  And these are multi-billion dollar operations.
[00:33:34]  So where did they get all those funds from?
[00:33:37]  So this is what we've been talking about for a long time.
[00:33:39]  It's become a major crackup on the left and it's coming on the right, where you have a situation where it's just the American people versus the ruling elite.
[00:33:47]  And the owners of both parties and the representatives, the Mitch McConnell's and Nancy Pelosis of both parties up there are there to, I mean, Nancy Pelosi said, if all of Washington, D.C. was destroyed, all of it was completely raised to the ground, the last thing standing would be our support for Israel.
[00:34:04]  She really said that.
[00:34:06]  Okay.
[00:34:06]  After America's dead and gone, the last tax collector promises to loot the last American and give that money to you is what she said.
[00:34:16]  It's insane.
[00:34:18]  But then, so what happens is you end up, you're going to end up, it's already the case on the left and more and more on the right, where it's just the voters and the people of the country versus the people who rule the parties.
[00:34:28]  This is what I was kind of joking around.
[00:34:30]  I wish people would listen to me when I said in 2012 that Ron, Dr. Paul, he should keep running, but he should run with Dennis Kucinich as his running mate.
[00:34:40]  And then he should insist that Barack Obama kick Joe Biden off the ticket and add Mitt Romney.
[00:34:46]  And then that way we'll finally have a two-party system.
[00:34:49]  We'll have the Democratic Republicans versus the war party.
[00:34:52]  And everyone will know who is who now, right?
[00:34:55]  But that's my pipe dream and just my way of explaining, you know, the circumstances that we're stuck in, basically, but what could have been, huh?
[00:35:04]  Yeah.
[00:35:05]  Well, that's, yeah, no, that's absolutely right.
[00:35:07]  I got to say, one of the other things that I just find appalling about this call to neutralize Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes.

=== Confronting Bad Ideas with Truth (05:04) ===

[00:35:17]  And I guess part of it is that you always feel like in a way, like it just, it feels like you're like, like you're playing a game of basketball and someone's losing and then they just punch the other guy in the face.
[00:35:28]  And you're like, but hey, those, those aren't the honorable rules to the game.
[00:35:33]  Like that's not, you know, it's like, Josh, like, what do you mean neutralize?
[00:35:36]  Like, dude, you, okay, look, I guess I'm not as big as, obviously, I'm not as big as Tucker Carlson and I'm not as big as Nick Fuentes these days, but like I'm a pretty, I'm pretty up there in this world.
[00:35:49]  I'm one of the guys in this camp.
[00:35:51]  And Josh Hammer got two cracks at me.
[00:35:53]  That's how you neutralize.
[00:35:55]  Like, come debate.
[00:35:56]  You got spanked both times.
[00:35:58]  And like, I mean, like, clearly, at least, however you feel about the arguments, which didn't have any, but by the audience response, there's no debate about it, like just overwhelming victories.
[00:36:10]  And it's like, so no, you don't get to then just say, hey, we, now I want to vanquish you.
[00:36:15]  Like, you lost, dude.
[00:36:16]  And you know what, though?
[00:36:17]  I mean, ultimately, this is, it's just another absolutely ham-handed, ridiculous, clumsy Keystone cop type of Hasbara effort here.
[00:36:26]  Yeah.
[00:36:26]  I mean, to me, it's like, let him write 10 more articles like this.
[00:36:30]  I mean, no, no, no.
[00:36:31]  I don't want Tucker in danger.
[00:36:33]  I know Tucker.
[00:36:34]  I'm sure he can take care of himself and I wish him a very long, healthy life.
[00:36:38]  I ain't saying that, but I'm just saying, like, hey, everybody, look at Josh Hammer.
[00:36:42]  Like, this is your Hasbara brigade.
[00:36:44]  This is American Zionism.
[00:36:46]  Right.
[00:36:47]  Yeah, but dude, that's kind of my point in a way.
[00:36:49]  Like, where that's where I was getting that.
[00:36:51]  It's just, it is wild to me.
[00:36:53]  And I feel this way with all of them.
[00:36:54]  It's like the one time that I said that Adolf Hitler wished Rabbi Schmuelie into being a real boy, which I do think is the origin story of Rabbi Shmuly.
[00:37:04]  I believe he was a wooden doll made by Adolf Hitler.
[00:37:07]  And one day Adolf Hitler dreamed he would be a real boy.
[00:37:09]  And he came to life.
[00:37:10]  And like, I mean, just think about this, right?
[00:37:12]  And this is like what it's been, I guess, one of my frustrations.
[00:37:15]  Like being a Jew who's opposed to Israel and believe, you know what I mean?
[00:37:20]  And all this shit, it's like, it's so weird to me to see other Jewish people talking about the rise of anti-Semitism and seemingly doing everything they can to increase it.
[00:37:31]  Like if you just know the background here, right?
[00:37:33]  So I guess the conspiracy theory is, because this is what he was talking about today, is that so Josh Hammer, which I'm not saying this has anything to do with anything.
[00:37:41]  It's probably just unfortunate timing, but the night before Charlie Kirk got killed, he tweets out a thing where Donald Trump had from, it was like a tweet from 2013.
[00:37:52]  He found an old Donald Trump tweet where he was talking about public executions and he just writes based.
[00:37:59]  Now, look, do I think he knew Charlie Kirk was about to get killed the next day and decided to blab on Twitter about this?
[00:38:04]  No, probably not.
[00:38:06]  But it is unfortunate timing, like any of us would admit.
[00:38:08]  Ah, shit, that doesn't look very good.
[00:38:10]  And then there are these wild conspiracy theories about, hey, look, he was lying about it.
[00:38:15]  And we found out that actually there were Jewish donors who were pulling millions of dollars from Charlie Kirk.
[00:38:20]  And in fact, Charlie Kirk had said that he was going to abandon Israel.
[00:38:25]  And Josh Hammer knew of both of those things.
[00:38:28]  And then you just think about the situation here.
[00:38:31]  Like, who the fuck are you, Josh Hammer, to say that these people, look, talk.
[00:38:38]  Tucker Carlson has millions of people who love him.
[00:38:40]  Nick Fuentes is ascendant.
[00:38:42]  He's got a huge audience of people who want to hear from him.
[00:38:45]  Who the fuck is Josh Hammer to not sit there and say, hey, I think these guys are wrong and these ideas need to be confronted with better ideas, but to essentially say you are to be removed like a fox in a hen house.
[00:38:59]  Like, I don't know how you remove the fox from the hen house, but it sure ain't by winning over the winning the argument or something like that.
[00:39:06]  It really is just so like the chutzpah is appalling.
[00:39:11]  All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Hexclad.
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[00:40:17]  All right, let's get back into the show.
[00:40:19]  And especially like, you got to figure.

=== Racial Collectivism in Vietnam (13:52) ===

[00:40:22]  I mean, I buy his excuse that he was referring to the guy that stabbed the girl on the bus down in South Carolina or whatever, North Carolina.
[00:40:30]  And that was all he meant.
[00:40:31]  And like, okay, fine, that's a plausible excuse.
[00:40:33]  I'm sure that is all he meant.
[00:40:34]  But then like, hey, dude, you are just misunderstood as calling for the execution of a guy who got executed a minute ago.
[00:40:42]  Like, you sure you're the one who needs to be overstating this in this way?
[00:40:46]  You know, it's, yeah, it's pretty brave of him to do it.
[00:40:50]  And not brave, but yeah, chutzpah is the way you put it, I think, is a fits a lot better.
[00:40:56]  And then exactly also, who cares about Josh Hammer?
[00:40:59]  Whoever listened to Josh Hammer and says, oh, yeah, well, I'm a Hammery in the end or whatever.
[00:41:04]  Nobody cares about him, dude.
[00:41:06]  He's some bomb.
[00:41:07]  Like, and Newsweek and even Newsweek.
[00:41:09]  The real Newsweek is the Daily Beast.
[00:41:11]  Whatever Newsweek is now is an old brand name that is owned by, I don't know who, you know, and I don't know who writes for him either.
[00:41:19]  No, that's, that's exactly right.
[00:41:20]  The other thing, too, that I, I, I have really, um, you know, and, and to be fair, whatever, Josh Hammer has deleted these tweets.
[00:41:29]  Um, but I don't know if you ever saw it, but he had tweeted a couple times that point blank, verbatim, that Jew hatred is, uh, is buried in European DNA.
[00:41:46]  Oh, yeah.
[00:41:47]  Like more than once, he had tweeted that, like specifically just like that.
[00:41:52]  And it is interesting.
[00:41:53]  It kind of reminds me, you know, I remember back in back in the day when me and you were arguing with like more me than you probably, but were arguing with like the woke libertarians.
[00:42:03]  And they'd all like say these things where they'd be like, we must reject, you know, the racial collectivism or bigotry is repugnant and blah, blah, blah.
[00:42:11]  And I would even go like, oh, okay, fine, sure.
[00:42:14]  But then how about like all the anti-white bigotry that's dominating college campuses right now or that's dominating the law, you know, that thing that libertarians tend to think about every now and then.
[00:42:26]  And there's just this, it's just what's white supremacy in the Holy Land.
[00:42:30]  How about that?
[00:42:31]  Well, that's the thing that you go, look, when you have like, look, this is a real issue, which it's very funny because they are the Zionists, I mean, they are like, they have this allergy to racial collectivism.
[00:42:45]  And like, okay, fair enough, you know, like, I don't like racial collectivism either.
[00:42:49]  And so I think that's a reasonable, you know, view to have.
[00:42:52]  But then they have, they want to enforce that while also having their own obvious racial collectivism views to say that hatred of your race is in the DNA of someone else.
[00:43:03]  And I'm sorry, you can delete that comment, but the fact that you ever made that comment, like it's like, you know, it's like, if I, you know, if someone, if someone like, if a black guy like cut me off in traffic or okay, I don't try, but if a black guy cut you off in traffic while you were driving and I was in the car with you, you know, and then I just, I just like screamed out, like I go like, oh my God, they are less than human.
[00:43:24]  They do not deserve rights.
[00:43:26]  They should all be enslaved.
[00:43:27]  And then I went like, sorry, I lost my temper there.
[00:43:30]  I think you'd be like, nah, dude, what the hell was that?
[00:43:33]  Like that's a little bit more lost.
[00:43:35]  Yeah, that's like, there was something in you that that came up in that moment.
[00:43:40]  And so just like the idea that you would ever say that like someone else's DNA is made of hatred.
[00:43:46]  It's like, no, that's actually, that's you who's made of hatred right now.
[00:43:49]  That is pure racial like hatred.
[00:43:51]  And it's just something to see guys like that.
[00:43:54]  You could say something like, and then you're still going to be the conservative figure of some sort in the United States of America.
[00:44:01]  Who exactly are you claiming to represent?
[00:44:03]  Yeah.
[00:44:04]  And by the way, everybody, it's not fair for you to take that clip of Dave out of context there.
[00:44:11]  And look, and this goes to the overall question too, about who's Josh Hammer to, well, obviously one, to pick on Tucker Carlson, give me a break, but who's he to pick on Nick Fuentes either?
[00:44:22]  And I think, you know, everybody could agree that Nick Fuentes is to the right of where the line ever was about what's acceptable, you know, in right-wing discourse.
[00:44:32]  And everybody knows there's a political spectrum on the right where if you keep going, you get to Aryan nations prison gangs and like whatever there's, you could get pretty all the way to the right beyond what anybody would consider, you know, reasonable.
[00:44:47]  As you said, this guy's got a huge audience bigger than you already.
[00:44:50]  Everyone like pointing at him and hissing and saying he better go away soon.
[00:44:56]  That sure has not worked.
[00:44:58]  And so if people really want to marginalize ethnic and or religious chauvinism and all this stuff as preached by this guy, they need to get to work doing a better job.
[00:45:08]  And I have to tell you, this is a symptom of a lot of things that are now discredited that really have no direct connection or should not necessarily have any direct connection to Zionism, but are discredited by Zionism.
[00:45:22]  And in fact, like you could even to oversimplify it in a way, you'd say the entire centrist establish or not even the establishment, just the entire political center, like from liberal Democrat to conservative Republican is, you know, completely discredited, almost completely discredited.
[00:45:42]  And especially among younger generations, people are saying, look, if this is the system, we want something else.
[00:45:49]  And so you have people on the left moving further and further to the left.
[00:45:52]  You have people on the right moving further and further to the right, where, you know, it used to be there were the liberal Republicans and the conservative Republicans.
[00:46:00]  Now the conservatives are the liberals and everybody else is the nationalists or worse, right?
[00:46:05]  And they're getting, and that means they're getting more and more collectivists.
[00:46:08]  They're getting worse and worse on economics.
[00:46:10]  And it also means though, and why are they thriving though?
[00:46:15]  Same as on the socialist left.
[00:46:16]  Why is Mandami?
[00:46:18]  I saw your thing trashing his absolute idiot communism on your show the other day, but why is he thriving?
[00:46:24]  It's because he's denouncing Zionism.
[00:46:26]  And the entire American centrist political establishment is willing to die on that hill.
[00:46:33]  And they're willing to take down essentially, you know, moderation and compromise, however you like it or not, on their way out.
[00:46:43]  So are we going to really have just socialists versus far-right nationalists are worse?
[00:46:48]  Because, you know, that'll very quickly just be fighting in the streets.
[00:46:51]  And again, we have a, well, and here's what it really comes down to.
[00:46:54]  And, and, and the political party leadership will remember this eventually.
[00:47:00]  It's 51% winner-take-all districts all across this country.
[00:47:04]  You need swing voters.
[00:47:06]  You can't just run hardcore kooks for everything, except for the very safest districts.
[00:47:10]  You got to be able to convince people who are willing to compromise to vote for somebody to get you across that threshold to actually take the power.
[00:47:18]  And, you know, they all know that.
[00:47:20]  But the thing is, just like, you know, you told me I hadn't seen it yet, but you told me about your debate with the guy from the Babylon B and all that.
[00:47:27]  It's the same thing with James Lindsay.
[00:47:28]  I see this guy.
[00:47:29]  I can't help but hate the guy because of how much he hates all of us.
[00:47:32]  But the thing is, like I'm secretly sympathetic to him and his, you know, obviously confused, but somewhat on target belief that what we need to conserve is the liberalism of America's founders, not socialism, not post-Marxian liberalism, but Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin and George Washington and a limited constitutional republic and freedom as our North Star.
[00:47:59]  That's what America is supposed to be about.
[00:48:01]  And so, yeah, all this very far-right nationalism and ethnic and religious and whatever nationalism, and even as far as avowed fascism, that is all incredibly dangerous.
[00:48:13]  But then what can he do?
[00:48:14]  He just throws a hissy fit and stamps his foot and says unclean, like you're not allowed in.
[00:48:19]  Somehow he's kicking people out.
[00:48:20]  But he's, if you look at the comment sections under his tweets, he's the one who's being kicked out.
[00:48:25]  He's been being ridden out of the right on a rail.
[00:48:28]  But the thing is, like, what's at the root of his corruption, man?
[00:48:33]  It's Zionism.
[00:48:34]  It's a willingness to go all the way to the mat, no matter what, for the American warfare state so that it's available to protect Israel, making no difference than Paul Wolfowitz or John Pod Horitz.
[00:48:46]  And that is what has brought down the Clinton, Bush, Biden, McCain centrist establishment that we've had in the post-Cold War era.
[00:48:55]  They're now completely discredited.
[00:48:57]  And the last thing that they'll give up on is their loyalty to a foreign state, which happens to be the most criminal and cruel barbarian regime on the planet that does nothing but steal and lie from morning till night.
[00:49:10]  It's completely crazy.
[00:49:12]  Look, and this is the, like, this is so, it's always been true.
[00:49:15]  And what is that?
[00:49:17]  What was that John Quincy Adams quote that I believe you used in your great thrashing of Bill Crystal, where he said, I always butcher these great quotes from great men in history.
[00:49:28]  America goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy.
[00:49:32]  Because then we'll be the dicatress of the world and we'll be the ruler of the world, but the betrayer of our own spirit.
[00:49:39]  Yeah.
[00:49:40]  Everything that we're trying so hard to build here.
[00:49:43]  And look, if you, even when you think about it, and I say this like to conservatives, I've always thought this is like the most important thing for conservatives to think about.
[00:49:50]  You think about when you really lost the American culture.
[00:49:55]  When you really lost, when the old suits and thin ties and the sexes between a husband and a wife and the, you know, it's leave it to beaver and it's that, when did you lose that culture?
[00:50:06]  It's during the Vietnam War.
[00:50:08]  And why?
[00:50:09]  Because now all the squares were supporting the Vietnam War and all the hippies were against the Vietnam War.
[00:50:15]  And how the hell was a square going to morally lecture a hippie about how you got to get it together and you shouldn't be doing drugs and having sex out of wedlock when you're supporting just like the mass slaughter of people for no good reason.
[00:50:27]  Like you just lose your, and I said this to Seth Dylan.
[00:50:29]  I debated him.
[00:50:30]  It hasn't come out as of now, but I think the same thing like you usually do before, and I've heard you say before, the same thing with the W. Bush era.
[00:50:38]  They did the exact same thing during Iraq and they completely lost.
[00:50:41]  Even when Trump was in power, it didn't matter.
[00:50:43]  It was still Obama years all through Trump one.
[00:50:45]  It was Obama years from sworn in in 09 all the way through 2025.
[00:50:52]  Well, because who's the obvious counterweight to say woke leftists?
[00:50:58]  Well, it'd be the religious right, the evangelicals, the Christian.
[00:51:01]  We got mega churches in this country.
[00:51:03]  I mean, there's tens of millions of devout Christians in this country.
[00:51:07]  So it would just be obvious that like the ones who would be standing up against transgenderism or wokeism or all this stuff would be the conservative Christians.
[00:51:17]  But who the fuck was going to listen to any of them after they just put all their political chips in on killing a million Iraqis for no reason?
[00:51:24]  Like, who's the hell is going to go back and go, oh, you know, you got to, you know, this guy, this guy who just supported the war in Iraq, I'm really interested.
[00:51:30]  He says he's pro-life.
[00:51:32]  I'm really interested in hearing what he has to say.
[00:51:33]  Get the fuck out of here, biggest hypocrite in the universe.
[00:51:37]  You're not pro-life.
[00:51:38]  It's all.
[00:51:39]  And so, you know, it's like at a certain point, like conservatives, and in this case, you know, because the term, you know, when they say classical liberal, it's a little bit, you know, in the American context, what are conservatives conserving the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence?
[00:51:53]  So if you, if, if you want to conserve that true liberalism, well, it's that or support the warfare state.
[00:52:01]  Those are your options.
[00:52:02]  And I told Seth Dylan this the other day on Piers Morgan.
[00:52:05]  I go, if you have some problem with the fact that Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes are ascendant now, just know, like that's your fault.
[00:52:12]  It is your fault.
[00:52:13]  That is the entire thing.
[00:52:15]  There's just simply no, like in the same sense that Donald Trump being elected president in 1994 is unthinkable.
[00:52:21]  It could not have happened.
[00:52:22]  Okay, there wasn't an election that year, but 96.
[00:52:25]  It could not have happened.
[00:52:26]  Okay.
[00:52:26]  It's just, it was impossible.
[00:52:27]  It took the failures of George W. Bush and Barack Obama before we would be willing to go with Donald Trump.
[00:52:33]  And in the same way, like, come on, obviously there's some truth there with Candace and Nick Fuentes too.
[00:52:39]  And I know they don't get along and maybe they'll bury the hatchet at some point.
[00:52:41]  But like, I'm just saying that like there's obviously, look, when Candace was at the Daily Wire and she stood up and said, it is wrong to slaughter Palestinian babies like this.
[00:52:50]  And for that, you know, whatever else that she's said after that, and probably a lot we agree with, probably some that we don't agree with, but whatever else she's said after that, you think I'm going to let Ben Shapiro say she's gone too far?
[00:53:03]  Fuck you.
[00:53:04]  I'm on her team.
[00:53:05]  You know what I mean?
[00:53:05]  Like it's just that, and that's how the feeling from a lot of people.
[00:53:09]  And so it's just, that's it.
[00:53:11]  It's like, again, to the point you made, it's like, oh, they're blowing up the Trump coalition.
[00:53:17]  Well, that is completely subjective to say who's blowing up the coalition here.
[00:53:22]  And to your point with Tucker, look, like, you could make that argument with me, right?
[00:53:25]  I abandoned supporting Trump over this stuff and even called for his impeachment and all that.
[00:53:30]  So like, okay, but hey, you guys are the ones who got him to bomb Iran, not me.
[00:53:36]  So like, I don't know.
[00:53:37]  Yeah, that was a deal breaker for a big part of the coalition.
[00:53:40]  Why is it just that we, like, in other words, if Donald Trump tomorrow, let's say he made good on that one threat that first time I've ever heard a president say that he would cut off funding to Israel, does Ben Shapiro and Josh Hammer still support him?
[00:53:56]  No, they don't, right?
[00:53:58]  You guys would blow up the Trump coalition if he wasn't supporting Israel.
[00:54:01]  So again, this is the bottom line here is that whoever, whichever side you want to point to and blame it, that's right.
[00:54:08]  This coalition can't stay together if we continue this policy.
[00:54:12]  Right.
[00:54:13]  So it's, there you go.

=== Hamas, Smotrich, and Energy (15:37) ===

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[00:55:33]  All right, let's get back on the show.
[00:55:35]  And by the way, too, you notice how, and I didn't read the hammer piece, but I know a lot of the outrage about Tucker having Fuentes on is that Tucker had Fuentes on.
[00:55:45]  And like, look, here's a screenshot of them sitting at a table together.
[00:55:49]  And so it's simply a matter of cooties without a discussion about the discussion.
[00:55:54]  And the discussion was Uncle Tucker telling the younger man that actually, no, you're really off target here, son.
[00:56:02]  It's not like this.
[00:56:03]  It's more like that.
[00:56:04]  And instead of blaming Jews, what you ought to do is blame actual individual people who are responsible for their actions instead of others.
[00:56:11]  And, you know, women, they're not so bad.
[00:56:12]  And whatever other things that they talked about, it wasn't like Tucker was going, can I please join your fan club now that you've replaced Ben Shapiro as the leader of the American conservative movement?
[00:56:22]  That was not what the discussion was about.
[00:56:24]  And I don't think anyone could fairly argue that Tucker came a centimeter toward Fuentes' position or vice versa.
[00:56:34]  It's just a conversation.
[00:56:35]  In fact, if anything, they were sort of staking out the lines between them that, well, you believe this, but I believe that.
[00:56:40]  And that's very different and all that.
[00:56:42]  And on that topic, I would say too, this is something I thought was interesting was you could tell, because, and I saw a clip of Fuentes talking about how they did have dinner the night before and all of that kind of thing.
[00:56:52]  So that makes sense that because I saw during the interview, you could tell they were referring to an earlier conversation where, and not one that they probably had just right before they went on.
[00:57:02]  It made sense in context, right?
[00:57:03]  That it was a dinner conversation that Tucker referred to, geez, I thought you were a fed.
[00:57:09]  And then he says, well, I thought you were a fed because geez, you want to talk about like who's actually connected to feds?
[00:57:14]  It wouldn't be me, you know, that kind of thing.
[00:57:16]  So they had that conversation.
[00:57:19]  And in fact, the part of it that I was trying to nail down here, Dave, was of his, I forgot the way that they phrased it.
[00:57:28]  Forgive me, I'll paraphrase it poorly, but it was something to the effect of that, like Tucker saying, I think that the Zionists like you and they want you out there representing the anti-Zionist right because you make us look bad.
[00:57:43]  Just like when David Duke comes and says, Yeah, I sure like things that Tucker Carlson says.
[00:57:48]  Yeah, thanks a lot, David.
[00:57:49]  I wasn't asking for your approval, dude.
[00:57:51]  You know what I mean?
[00:57:52]  That kind of thing.
[00:57:53]  He used to endorse Ron Paul.
[00:57:54]  It drove me crazy.
[00:57:55]  Yeah, literally, I don't even know anything about it.
[00:57:57]  It's the only thing I hate about David Duke.
[00:57:59]  I don't, I've never read anything he's ever written.
[00:58:00]  I hate that he would always endorse Ron Paul.
[00:58:02]  That just drives me crazy.
[00:58:04]  Yeah, it's good for him.
[00:58:05]  Good for him.
[00:58:06]  But, you know, never mind the person that he is supposedly trying to help here, right?
[00:58:11]  So that's just quietly, just quietly vote for him or quietly send him money if you want to be good.
[00:58:15]  Why would you hurt him by publicly endorsing him?
[00:58:17]  Yeah, even then, no, just yeah, go away.
[00:58:19]  We don't.
[00:58:20]  Yeah, you want to, and Ron didn't want anything like that.
[00:58:23]  You know what I mean?
[00:58:24]  He wouldn't want any association like that.
[00:58:26]  Anyway, so Tucker's sort of frame of reference for this is like, look, man, you know, one of the reasons I was reacting against you is because, and, and, and, and Fuentes fairly called him out for this, right?
[00:58:36]  It's like, oh, if I'm against anyone, then I'm like a wrecker.
[00:58:40]  And if I'm for anyone, then I'm getting my stink all over.
[00:58:42]  Like, I, you know, and that was a fair point, right?
[00:58:45]  But the thing is, I'm not arguing that Tucker was right to be suspicious of Fuentes, but I am arguing that there is a point of view there that deserves to be explored that's interesting at least, which is that one, yes, he is, as my friend Jason Rink produced the movie, The Most Canceled Man in America.
[00:59:05]  They did everything they could, they could to shut this kid up and to keep him out.
[00:59:08]  Well, he's not a kid anymore, but to shut him up and keep him down and out.
[00:59:12]  And that failed.
[00:59:14]  And then so it would make sense too to me from, you know, if you look at it from the Israeli Foreign Ministry's point of view, that actually having him out there is not that bad.
[00:59:26]  In the same way, Dave, that as you have covered on this show extensively, and people can read my article all about it that I wrote with Connor Friedman, Netanyahu's support for Hamas backfired.
[00:59:36]  And I have all the quotes in there of Bezalil Smotrich before October the 7th saying Hamas is an asset.
[00:59:45]  And the PA, that is Abu Mazen, Abu Abbas, and the Palestinian Authority, Fatah on the West Bank, they are a liability.
[00:59:54]  Why?
[00:59:55]  Because they're reasonable.
[00:59:56]  People can point, even Donald Trump says, Abu Mazen, he's a nice guy.
[00:59:59]  He's like an old grandfather.
[01:00:00]  I could deal with him.
[01:00:01]  Oh, we don't want that.
[01:00:03]  And as Bezalil Smotrich, again, this is for people not familiar, one of the most radical members of Netanyahu's cabinet over there right now.
[01:00:09]  He says, but Hamas is an asset.
[01:00:11]  Why?
[01:00:11]  He explains.
[01:00:13]  In this game of delegitimization, Hamas is an asset.
[01:00:20]  Again, just echoing Netanyahu.
[01:00:21]  If you want to prevent a Palestinian state, you support this group of fanatical Islamist terrorists rule over the poor helpless captives of the Gaza Strip just so that you can point at them and say, you don't expect us to deal with scum like that, do you?
[01:00:38]  And as Dolph Weisclass said, we have a no-one to talk to certificate from the U.S. Congress as long as we have these people in power there, right?
[01:00:46]  It's a scam.
[01:00:47]  So they can say in this game of delegitimization, New York liberals, European liberals, Tel Aviv liberals who want us to deal with the Palestinians, go to hell.
[01:00:57]  We don't have to because look at who they are.
[01:01:00]  They are Hamas.
[01:01:01]  Now, the analogy is pretty obvious that it makes sense if you're Josh Hammer that actually he'd like to replace Tucker Carlson with Nick Fuentes so that you can explain to the population, the rest of the population of America, that all good conservatives are Zionists until you get so far right that they're actually embracing fascism at that point.
[01:01:26]  And they're openly racist.
[01:01:28]  At that point, they become anti-Zionists.
[01:01:32]  Say it with me, class, just because they hate Jews.
[01:01:36]  And so, in this game of delegitimization, doesn't it make sense then that Nick Fuentes, maybe they were stupid to marginalize him?
[01:01:44]  Maybe they should have been promoting him all this time.
[01:01:46]  Because as long as he is openly disdainful of all American Jews, and for that matter, blacks and everybody else that he disdains so much, that that looks good for the Israeli argument that see, these are the only people who are against us.
[01:02:00]  A bunch of Maoists on college campuses and a bunch of neo-fascists on the right.
[01:02:06]  But everyone else thinks we're great.
[01:02:08]  Well, there's no question, right, that that is essentially what they've always been saying, right?
[01:02:12]  They always say, basically, in fact, they've had actual debates about this.
[01:02:16]  I mean, like Douglas Murray, before I got my hands on him, he debated Mehdi Hassan once, and the topic was, is anti-Zionism anti-Semitism?
[01:02:27]  And that's literally what he was arguing the affirmative or whatever, or whatever, phrase that as a question, not a statement.
[01:02:34]  But so they're making this argument.
[01:02:36]  And so there's an interesting dynamic at play here, which I guess like me, because so on one hand, like, look, you could obviously argue.
[01:02:45]  And in fact, you could have incorrectly, but very reasonably argued, say, like in the past, say, 10 years ago, you could have argued that, hey, someone taking Nick Fuentes' views is just a non-starter.
[01:02:57]  You're never going to get anywhere, dude.
[01:02:59]  You're never going to have millions of followers and have like this huge show.
[01:03:02]  But certainly that at least has been proven wrong, right?
[01:03:05]  Like there is, there's, there's a, there's a dark energy that you harness when you're being the most radical right-winger in the world.
[01:03:16]  And look, I mean, even think about like Kanye West when he was going on Alex Jones' show and how much, you know, interest that generated.
[01:03:24]  Where he's not making an intellectual argument at all.
[01:03:27]  He's not even pretending to.
[01:03:28]  He's not even pretending to go like, no, have you read David Irving?
[01:03:31]  Like Hitler did not give the order to the final solution.
[01:03:34]  He's not like saying anything like that.
[01:03:36]  He's just sitting there going, nah, I hate Jews.
[01:03:38]  I love Hitler.
[01:03:39]  That's what's up.
[01:03:41]  And when you do that, you're kind of in a way, you're harnessing like an energy.
[01:03:45]  It's a force that you're going, I'm staking out the most off-limits position you could imagine.
[01:03:51]  And I'm saying it with my full chest, with both shoulders back and not apologizing at all.
[01:03:55]  And, you know, Fuentes has always had a lot of that.
[01:03:58]  And there's sarcasm involved in that.
[01:04:00]  And there's kind of trolling involved in that.
[01:04:02]  But whatever that energy is, obviously he's also a very smart kid who makes some very good points.
[01:04:06]  And so that, that, that combination took off.
[01:04:08]  But I could see where there would still be some Zionists who would be betting, look, even though this has got a lot of energy, attaching opposition of Israel with liking Adolf Hitler and hating Jews and I guess kind of liking Stalin too or whatever the most outrageous, like we'll bet that that's going to turn off more people than it's going to be able to create a coalition that can, you know what I'm saying?
[01:04:31]  Like, so like all these things could be going on at once.
[01:04:34]  Sure.
[01:04:34]  Again, I do, it was an interesting, that was kind of part of what was an interesting conversation about that.
[01:04:39]  I got to, because I also saw Fuentes kind of respond to this.
[01:04:42]  I got to believe, though, I think even if, like, in the same sense, by the way, you bring up the example of Smotrich.
[01:04:49]  One of the things that's the most infuriating thing, most appalling thing about this guy is that, so he's the current finance minister.
[01:04:56]  I mean, he's been the finance minister through the entire destruction of Gaza.
[01:04:59]  And so he's on record all those years saying that Hamas is, you know, an asset and that the PA is a liability.
[01:05:08]  But then after October 7th, he goes, well, we have to completely destroy Hamas.
[01:05:11]  And that is the justification for fighting this war.
[01:05:13]  And then he also goes, oh, we have to completely ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip because of how horrible Hamas is and how they debate.
[01:05:19]  So you see, like, I mean, just how.
[01:05:21]  And then by the way, all of the Zionists, anytime you bring this up, all they have to say is, oh, it doesn't matter what Smotrich says.
[01:05:29]  None of them even attempt to defend him.
[01:05:30]  They just go.
[01:05:30]  Are they going to stay?
[01:05:32]  You're an anti-Semite dude.
[01:05:33]  Yeah.
[01:05:35]  One of them said, I can't remember which one of them said to me, oh, it was one of the officials.
[01:05:38]  But he goes, Israel's a democracy.
[01:05:40]  We have lots of different voices.
[01:05:42]  Yeah.
[01:05:43]  You remember years ago?
[01:05:45]  Years ago, Richard Spencer, who was sort of the Nick Fuentes of six years ago or eight years ago or whatever that was, he went to, I believe it was Texas A ⁇ M and got in a big argument with a bunch of people standing around.
[01:06:00]  He's just kind of holding court.
[01:06:02]  And I forget if it was a rabbi or if it was just a Jewish professor at the school, you know, argue with him about his immigration policy.
[01:06:11]  And he said, listen, all we want is a white Christian ethno-state, just like over there in Israel.
[01:06:18]  I mean, you don't demand open immigration into Israel, do you?
[01:06:23]  And I forgot now if it was a rabbi or professor, forgive me, but the guy stood there for an uncomfortable amount of time without saying a word.
[01:06:33]  And then just turned around and walked away.
[01:06:38]  He had absolutely nothing.
[01:06:39]  He's just sitting there racking his brain.
[01:06:41]  He can't think of a thing to say.
[01:06:43]  And so to me, that would be more effective anti-Zionism from Nick Fuentes is going, look, I am a Zionist.
[01:06:52]  I agree 100% with the Likud party's doctrine.
[01:06:55]  I just want it for the United States of America.
[01:06:58]  I'm just copying them because in fact, my beliefs are exactly like theirs.
[01:07:03]  Only in Israel proper, at least, the Israeli Jews are 80%.
[01:07:08]  Whereas in America, Catholics are about 20% of the population.
[01:07:11]  So I'm not sure how they're supposed to have a papist ruling tyranny over the rest of us and how that's supposed to work out.
[01:07:18]  I think the Methodists and the Baptists and the Presbyterians will have something to say about that.
[01:07:23]  Yeah, I think there's actually, I think there's a lot more Christian Zionists than there are Catholics in this country, unfortunately.
[01:07:29]  And they're probably a lot more heavily armed too.
[01:07:32]  They be from the South.
[01:07:34]  Yeah, let's make sure we make sure it's the right theocracy if we're going to get it.
[01:07:39]  But it does seem that like there is, look, it's again, to your point with the James Lindsay thing, right?
[01:07:46]  Like it's in the same way.
[01:07:48]  It's such on a personal level.
[01:07:49]  It's all true, right?
[01:07:50]  Like if my, if, if my kids were like teenagers or something like that, right?
[01:07:55]  And I'm like, I don't know, I'm, I'm, you know, I quit working and I'm living off welfare and I'm screaming at their mom.
[01:08:04]  I'm being abusive toward her every day and I'm letting the house fall to shit and I'm not taking care of the law.
[01:08:09]  Like if I'm just not doing my job as a man, and then my kids are teenagers and one of them are like experimenting with drugs and I'm like, no drugs in my house.
[01:08:17]  You know, how likely is that word to have any authority?
[01:08:20]  It's like, dude, you just got like, whereas if you're doing your job and you're doing all that, you're much more likely to be able to say, hey, that's not who we are.
[01:08:28]  Like we don't do stuff like that.
[01:08:29]  We live like this.
[01:08:31]  And in the same sense, it's like, look, dude, if there's, if there, if we hadn't been fighting wars on Israel's behalf and we haven't been funding them, committing a goddamn genocide against the Palestinians, you weren't supporting, then yeah, it'd be much easier for you to say, hey, guys, like I think hating Jews is over the line.
[01:08:49]  You know, I think being a conspiracy theorist is over the line or something like that.
[01:08:53]  But it's just all these guys, you got no leg to stand on now, you know?
[01:08:56]  And this is one of the things that you see happen when the establishment gets completely discredited.
[01:09:02]  Obviously, that's fertile ground for radicalism.
[01:09:05]  And, you know, it's so many of these guys want to just lecture the radicalism that's rising up without dealing with the fact that this came in the wake of, you know, even just doing the 21st century, you guys just lying to us about crises after crises where you were looting the American people, bankrupting the greatest country in the history of the world, all for permanent war.
[01:09:30]  And man, sorry, when you're on that position, you don't get to be, as Dinesh D'Souza said, the quiet part out loud.
[01:09:38]  You don't get to have a Bill Buckley and an Irving Crystal anymore who decides who's in and who's out.
[01:09:43]  So sorry, you guys won't be making those decisions now.
[01:09:45]  And now it'll be based off the market and Tucker Carlson.
[01:09:49]  I'm okay with it.
[01:09:50]  Yeah.
[01:09:50]  And you don't get to have Jeb Bush as your president either.

=== Trumpism and Persecution Policies (05:19) ===

[01:09:52]  You have, you know, Donald Trump who does essentially whatever he wants.
[01:09:56]  And so on one hand, they've indicted Jim Comey.
[01:10:00]  And I'm like, all right, I don't care what law they break to put him in prison.
[01:10:04]  And then I heard they said that they're investigating John Brennan.
[01:10:08]  And all of a sudden, I can feel my own concerns about Donald Trump's other behavior going away because I also hate the centrist establishment that has done all of this to us so much.
[01:10:24]  And for all of his sins, Trump still isn't exactly one of them.
[01:10:29]  He was never a senator.
[01:10:30]  None of these policies were really his policies.
[01:10:32]  They had a completely handcuffed due to Russia Gate and impeachment and all that in his first term.
[01:10:37]  And I hate John Brennan, the leader of Java al-Nusra, the starter of the Ukraine-Russia war back in 2014, mass murder of even American civilians with drones, backer of Al-Qaeda also in Libya.
[01:10:49]  Did I leave that out?
[01:10:50]  Just absolute traitor.
[01:10:51]  He was a commie in college and admitted.
[01:10:53]  That's right.
[01:10:53]  He was a member of the Communist Party, wasn't he?
[01:10:56]  Yeah, that guy.
[01:10:56]  So Donald Trump, go ahead and persecute your enemies.
[01:10:59]  Fine.
[01:10:59]  But then you can see how that immediately translates over because it's not just me, but it's everyone to the right of me too, right?
[01:11:07]  Is saying, you know, if he starts a war against Venezuela, geez, at least he's really owning them libs for me, man.
[01:11:15]  Boy, I sure do hate his enemies a lot.
[01:11:18]  And because of how bad, the same thing we're talking about on the like, you know, whatever YouTuber level is the same thing on the actual political power level is that centrism is over and radicalism has taken its place.
[01:11:32]  Donald Trump ain't Ron Paul.
[01:11:34]  He's maybe like a one quarter Ron Paul or something.
[01:11:38]  He has some anti-government instincts, but he sure likes being a tough guy too.
[01:11:43]  And he just does whatever he wants.
[01:11:45]  Of course, the liberals will criticize him for tearing down a little outhouse part of the White House rather than anything really important.
[01:11:54]  But, you know, whatever.
[01:11:57]  I'm not trying to be too alarmist.
[01:12:00]  Donald Trump's accusers are always way, way, way out over their skis.
[01:12:04]  On the other hand, the presidency itself is incredibly dangerous and he can be extremely reckless sometimes.
[01:12:12]  So, you know, like just one example, the Russians have been testing new missiles and Trump says, well, I'm going to restart nuclear weapons testing.
[01:12:23]  Well, but the Russians weren't setting off, you know, atom bombs and hydrogen bombs.
[01:12:28]  They were just testing the delivery systems, man.
[01:12:31]  So like, let's not get carried away here, you know, blasting out in all capitals on truth social.
[01:12:37]  That's the kind of radicalism you would not expect to have in the presidency at all.
[01:12:41]  Discredited in, again, in this very same way.
[01:12:44]  And with, again, even from me, more license than I would give any president just because of how much I also hate his enemies so much.
[01:12:53]  You know, you can never see me being anywhere near as conciliatory to Clinton, Bush, or Obama or Biden in any context.
[01:12:59]  No, of course, but it seems crazy not to be because also a big part of that, at least for me, has always been that because I do hate so many things about Donald Trump.
[01:13:12]  And I really do think, I mean, just, you know, it's the whatever five years he's been president now have just been such a disaster and so much potential of what it could have been and never was any of that.
[01:13:24]  But it's a big part of that calculation is that it's, it's, it's like his supporters.
[01:13:29]  I never had contempt for the Trump supporters.
[01:13:31]  I always understood.
[01:13:33]  I always understood, you know, like that he was, he was the repudiation of the entire establishment who had so failed you and not just failed you like in a, you know, they didn't live up to what they were supposed to do, like intentionally betrayed you.
[01:13:48]  The most profound betrayal you could have.
[01:13:51]  Like the leaders of a country selling their own country out.
[01:13:54]  It's just like it's something out of like a row, a Greek tragedy or something like that.
[01:13:59]  And so I always just like had like a thing where it's like, look, you want to believe it's like, no, that Trumpism really did have something to it, even if the Trump administration didn't, which is just like, look, this is insane.
[01:14:12]  And look, again, whatever.
[01:14:13]  We got to wrap up here because we're over time.
[01:14:15]  But like, I do get your point.
[01:14:17]  I would take a lot.
[01:14:17]  I could live with some tariffs for sending Comey and Clapper to, or Comey and Brennan in this case to jail, but not another war, not another disastrous war.
[01:14:28]  Bring the troops home.
[01:14:30]  There's a compromise I'll make.
[01:14:31]  And yeah, words, Justin Raimondo.
[01:14:33]  He always said, you know, this is our time.
[01:14:35]  It's not Trump.
[01:14:36]  It's Trumpism.
[01:14:37]  That's what I support.
[01:14:38]  And I was too obtuse about it then, but he was right.
[01:14:42]  And that is, you know, our mission is just, I think, be the best part of the right and ally with that MAGA movement, the America First movement, as best as we can in order to pressure the, because it's one thing that he does really respond to is, I mean, he picks and chooses, but based on what some people think.
[01:15:03]  So we just need to make sure that the right people are, you know, really pushing non-interventionism as hard as we can.
[01:15:09]  And we still got three years and a lot of opportunity here.

=== Bringing the Troops Home (00:43) ===

[01:15:12]  So well, nothing, let's let's hope that some of the right people go and sign up for the Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom because that'll get their heads on straight.
[01:15:23]  Guys, we will put that link in the episode description.
[01:15:27]  Make sure you guys go check that out.
[01:15:28]  And of course, listen to the Scott Horton show, which is phenomenal.
[01:15:32]  Provoked is the best new podcast that's out there.
[01:15:34]  It's really just excellent, of course, with not just Scott, but our buddy, the great Daryl Cooper as well.
[01:15:40]  Make sure to check that out.
[01:15:41]  Read anti-war.
[01:15:43]  Go check out the Libertarian Institute.
[01:15:45]  All the amazing books that they've put out there.
[01:15:47]  And Scott, as always, thank you so much for taking the time.
[01:15:50]  Absolutely.
[01:15:51]  Thanks, Dave.
[01:15:52]  All right.
[01:15:52]  You're the man.
[01:15:53]  And thank you, everybody, for listening.
[01:15:54]  We'll catch you next time.