Dave Smith and Robbie Bernstein review their "porch tour" and promote Body Brain Coffee before analyzing Trump's Alaska summit with Putin, which proposes land swaps for Ukraine despite collapsing domestic support. They critique Biden's failed sanctions strategy and Netanyahu's potential Gaza occupation, warning of strained U.S.-Israel relations. The episode concludes by debating Mark Maron's views on post-election comedy, challenging claims that transgender rights were stolen and arguing that tech censorship reflects organic cultural shifts rather than free speech violations. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Ron Paul's Birthday Porch00:07:29
What is up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
I am Dave Smith.
He is Robbie the Fire Bernstein.
How are you feeling, my friend?
I had a great weekend out in Minnesota.
I'm excited to hear about Ron Paul's birthday, which I was sad I had a porch lined up for, but couldn't make it to.
But for everyone out there, we've got this is the most dense stretch of porches.
I got Tennessee this weekend, Memphis, Bonaqua, Chattanooga.
Then I got a run of Baldwin, Missouri, Peckin, Indiana, outside Cincinnati, Cleveland, Ohio, and then closing out porch door at Max's at Pubca's, the private bar for the smoke out bug out, a concert from the Shedcast guys.
So come camp.
We got Porta Potties.
You can shit in the Port of Potty.
Very nice.
I like it.
That's what I like to hear.
And then, of course, after that, me and you, starting in September, will be back out on the road together for the rest of the year.
Yeah.
We got Tampa Side Splitters coming up.
Tacoma, Spokane, Vegas, Poughkeepsie.
We got a bunch of dates up there.
ComicDaveSmith.com.
Go check that out.
And I did also want to make sure to mention up top today because really I'm very proud of our boy Lewis Jay Gomez and his newest venture, which is Body Brain Coffee.
I should tell people who don't know, many of you know listening, but Lewis is one of my closest friends and has been for many years.
Lewis was the guy who convinced me to do stand-up comedy and the guy who convinced me to start podcasting.
So he's pretty, yeah, I mean, it's the only good things he's ever done in his life besides body brain coffee.
It was convincing me to do stand-up.
Yeah.
Okay, fine.
Fair enough.
There's like four things, but let's, you know, celebrate the four.
But anyway, he's also, of course, always been, you know, the, you know, the guy who's really supported this show, hosted it on his network.
He's a partner with me on partoftheproblem.com.
And he's, of course, as you guys know, a hilarious comedian and somebody who's really kind of like, you know, represents kind of like real edgy comedy and free speech and all the stuff that we love.
And he just released Body Brain Coffee, which is phenomenal.
It's a coffee that also boosts your testosterone levels.
Testosterone in men has plummeted down nearly 25% in the last 20 years.
Very interesting.
We could get into it some other time, but I believe government policy has been a big part of that.
But now you could just drink Body Brain Coffee.
It's delicious.
It's third-party tested for purity and potency.
No fillers, no fillers, no gimmicks.
It's really, really an amazing product.
I just tried it the other day, but you could, everybody is swearing by this stuff.
You got to do it.
So go to bodybraincoffee.com.
Use the promo code Dave20 for 20% off your first order.
I really want to, guys, because first of all, this product is great.
Lewis is a great guy, and he's been behind Part of the Problem from the very beginning.
So I really want to blow this thing up for him and let him know that it was our people who blew it up.
That's the selfishness in it.
I don't want him to think he succeeded on his own.
So we want him to succeed, but you got to use the promo code Dave20 and you get 20% off your first order too.
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Bodybraincoffee.com.
All right.
Let's get into the show today.
There's no way I can't spend the first few minutes talking about what you just alluded to, which was Dr. Ron Paul's 90th birthday party bash the other day that I just got back from out in Lake Jackson, Texas, where he's still Ron Paul's congressional district, where he still lives to this day.
Yeah, you were sorely missed, Rob.
A lot of people were asking about you.
There are a bunch of fans out there and stuff.
My speech and some of the podcasts that I did are out.
I know they're up on YouTube and stuff.
And so I kind of talked about it a bit already.
I won't, I'll make this short because we got a lot of stuff to get to, but it was just an amazing event.
Just saw so many great people who I haven't seen in so many years and people I really love that I just don't see as much anymore.
Like Kennedy was there and Spike Cohen was there, a whole bunch of Clint Russell and a whole bunch of our like Liberty crew people.
And then I got to hang out.
Um with Ron Paul and his son and his granddaughter for like a half hour.
That was just amazing.
It was just a guy who's really you know.
You know people say don't meet your heroes and that's because their heroes aren't as cool as Ron Paul.
Meeting Ron Paul is just.
Every time i've i've gotten a chance to hang out with the man, it's just been like invigorating and uh, inspiring.
So it's just just an incredible human being.
And then he gets up there at the end.
It's his 90th birthday and he gets up at the end and I really thought he was just gonna like say thank you to everybody for coming out to his birthday and how he appreciates it, or something blah blah, blah.
He gave a 45 minute speech about central banking and liberty and the era that we're in and all this stuff and it's just like amazing.
It's amazing to watch um and the guy is just the guy's, so incredible.
So you know nothing but um praise and love for dr Ron Paul.
Happy 90th birthday um, and a huge thank you to Dan Mcadams, who also is just incredible.
Um, you know Ron Paul's best foreign policy guy and is co-host on the Liberty Report and is the the guy who runs the Ron Paul Institute with him and all the young Americans FOR Liberty guys.
I love that organization to death and um yeah, just thanks.
Thanks to everybody and and the Paul family uh, thank you to them too.
All right guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is the Wellness Company.
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All right, let's get back into the show.
If i'm ever 90 and haven't made enough money that I still have to do porches and interact with people, please put me down okay fair, Fair enough.
I will.
But he seemed to be having fun.
Yeah.
No, that's incredible to be 90 years old and still want to engage with people like that.
I can't imagine being 90, having a birthday and be like, I will have the fans over to my house to celebrate and I will share a message about the Fed.
I think that's just a testament to his character.
Yes, I could not agree more.
When you said Ron Paul's son, are you referring to Rand or is there different son?
No, no, no, no.
Ukraine War Negotiations00:15:11
There's a different son, different son.
Rand was not there.
He sent like a video message in, but Rand wasn't there.
But no, it was a different, one of his other sons.
Yeah, he's got like five kids.
But and then I think they got like 20 something grandkids.
You know, that's how it works.
If you have a big family and then your kids have a big family, by the time you get to grandkids, you're like, you're forgetting names and stuff.
It's tough.
It's a, it's a, you got to get like, I don't know, some type of list going.
Anyway, okay, so there's, we, we should open with, I guess there's two stories.
So if you haven't, if you, if you weren't aware, Rob, America is involved in two proxy wars and neither of them are going great.
So that's the, that's just to get you caught up if you're not up to speed.
But there's been some pretty major developments in both the war in Ukraine and Israel's destruction of Gaza.
And so let's, let's do Ukraine first, just because that is kind of the bigger, well, I don't know, bigger story, but this week, a big thing is going down.
So I was just, I will start by just saying this because this was pretty weird to me.
So I was just, I was on Piers Morgan just now.
That's what, right before I came onto the show, literally moments before this show started, I was on with them.
And so I was on a panel and the panel is, I haven't done one of the Piers Morgan panels in a long time.
I've been doing like one-on-one debates.
And then, you know, one time Pierce just interviewed me.
But there's, but so I was back on one of these panels and, you know, so I was struck by just, first of all, how, I don't know, I just can't do the panels because you got to sit there.
It's one thing if you got other interesting people on the panel, but when there's just too many people who aren't saying anything interesting, you're going to sit there through all this nonsense.
Anyway, so I'm on this panel with a there's the general.
What's his name again?
I keep blanking on it.
General Mark Kimmett, who was he was in the Bush administration.
He was at some type of position in the State Department.
I can't exactly remember.
But anyway, so it's him, then this one other guy who's some type of expert.
I lived in Russia and studied this stuff thing.
Then there's some girl from Ukraine.
And then there's some dude from Russia who's like a RT guy.
So literally, if you could picture this, like the dude from Russia is like in his car.
The general and the expert guy are like in suits and ties.
I'm in a hoodie, you know, just like the normal dynamic of this.
I'm wearing this.
And, you know, it's like all these guys have their fancy title.
It's like the same dynamic also.
It's like fancy titles for two guys, then, you know, someone in Ukraine, someone in Russia, and then me, a comedian here on the panel with it.
And so I'm sitting here and they literally start going into, I mean, it is, it was like just, I was disgusted by it.
It's like, first the, you know, the Ukrainian is like, the people of Ukraine are strong.
Everybody thinks we're weak, but we are strong.
We will fight and we will win.
Then the Russians like, Russia is strong.
You are all scared of Russia.
This was a defensive war that we had to fight.
The aggression was the West, blah, blah.
Then the general and this expert guy start going like, oh, Russia's not strong.
Your whole country is a gas station with nuclear weapons.
You're weak.
And they're going back.
And then me, the comedian in the hoodie in the room, I'm like, guys, what are we doing?
I just had this moment where I'm just like, guys, there's a war going on.
Hundreds of thousands of people are dying.
Don't we want to stop that?
Why are we just lobbing insults at each other?
Like, okay, like there's a negotiation process that's going on right now.
Like, can't wait.
Anyway, it was just one more moment that is just so.
Look, I don't mean to make it about me.
I just happen to find myself in the middle of this, but it's one more moment where it's like the people who are supposed to be the grown-ups in the room are actually the most childish people in the room.
And then like, you can't like, and then you have to, it's why in this weird world, you have to come to a show like this to get like a serious conversation.
It's just so freaking bizarre.
Anyway, the news, the very major news that's happened, just unfolded over the last few days is that Donald Trump in his 4D chess art of the deal negotiating strategies has now, which I would think of as just more incoherent than anything else, but has now pivoted away from last week, he was on Vladimir Putin better have a ceasefire by this deadline or there'll be hell to pay.
And by hell to pay, it means sanctions and money for weapons or whatever, the same old thing.
He completely dropped that.
He's now announced after Witkoff went and met with Vladimir Putin.
It's now been announced that Donald Trump is meeting with Vladimir Putin in a couple of days in Alaska.
As of now, no Zelensky, just the two of them.
But now we are at least back to the posture of we're trying to make a deal here and we're trying to end this war.
And Trump even said a couple things today about how he thinks they're, you know, he's optimistic about that they can make a deal.
So the tone of everything has completely changed.
And for the first time since this war has broken out, the president of the United States of America and Vladimir Putin are sitting down in a room together, which itself is just a great thing.
And it's criminally insane that that has not happened yet.
Like it's just so it's so it literally is like I'm I feel like as a father of little children, I'm so embarrassed that this is the adult world.
Like I'm so glad I don't have to tell them about this yet.
Cause man, it's gonna, it's gonna hurt to let them know someday that like, oh yeah, I know you always thought the adults kind of had it together a little bit, but now it turns out we don't at all.
But think about it.
Two countries that are in possession of 90% of the world's stockpiles of nuclear weapons, that's Russia and America are in a proxy war on Russia's border and they're not communicating.
There has been no meeting between the two commanders in this war until now.
So anyway, it's great that it's happening.
It's great that Trump has reversed course here.
Let's hope for the best.
But anyway, take it away.
Any thoughts you have on any of this stuff, Rob?
Yeah, well, I couldn't agree more that it's shocking that it took till now.
I wonder what Witkoff's conversation with Putin was, that they're finally able to sit down.
And it still seems to me like the big X factor here is if Zelensky is finally willing to go, all right, we'll let you guys keep what you conquered for peace here.
And whether or not I guess Trump is finally willing to abandon Ukraine and say, we're not sending anything else over unless you guys accept this deal.
Yeah.
Well, there's a few, a few interesting dynamics.
Like one of them is, which I think plays a role in this, but evidently, since Donald Trump's first kind of turn against Zelensky and him, you know, like saying we're going to cut off the aid.
And they really, even though he did ultimately reverse on that, it's not like aid packages have been coming in the way they were under Joe Biden.
And it seems that this has had this mixed with other factors, I guess, like just like how prolonged and bloody the war has been, but there has been a collapse in support for the war amongst the Ukrainian people.
It's now, there was just a Gallup poll out about this, and there was a big piece written up by Gallup that there is, it's like 68 or 69%.
It's like super majorities of the Ukrainian people support a negotiated peace immediately.
And that means land, you know, concessions.
And so that is, I'm sure, is a big factor of this too.
That, you know, it's funny because throughout the whole thing, I didn't get to make this point on the panel today, but I should have.
But it's like throughout this whole thing, we've heard, oh, the Ukrainian people want to fight.
The Ukrainian people want to fight.
Well, now look at this.
Super majorities of them don't want to fight anymore.
And yet the people advocating for the war just keep advocating for it because this is how war propaganda works.
One piece falls away and you just keep advocating for it.
Oh, yeah, there aren't weapons of mass destruction, but we were always here to bring democracy.
You just, you move on to the next justification for the war.
But from what I understand, it's at least I've seen it being reported.
Now, who knows?
I guess we'll, we'll find out more about this, but it's been reported that Putin is at least signaling that he's, which is a little bit of them stepping down from the position they were in before, that he's basically conceding he'll, or I'm sorry, he's signaling that he might be willing to accept, we'll take Donesk, Luhansk, and Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea, and then a corridor,
like from some of those territories they have on the south to Crimea, but that they'll accept that.
And if that's the case, if, which is a huge if, but if that is the case, then like the, we'd be crazy to not take that deal at this point.
That's like, that's pretty much best case scenario, you know, for how to unwind this thing.
Now, I think where the issue comes in is that, so I believe Ukraine still holds like Ukraine, I think, has like a third of Donetsk still.
And then Russia has pretty, I think Russia has all of Luhansk and most of Donetsk, but there's like a third of Donetsk that Ukraine still has.
So it would require a Ukrainian retreat from that area in order to get it done.
And then at least what's been signaled and reported is that then Vladimir Putin would give up some of the territory he has in the south.
And so, and this is what I think Donald Trump was indicating the other day.
I don't know if you saw the clip, Rob, where he said there'll be some land swaps.
Like he's, he's already, which is, look, I don't even mind that because it's like with all of these things, you never want to paint leaders in wartime into a corner.
You always want to give them a path out.
And so if he wants to describe that as land swaps, so it doesn't sound like as big of a concession.
So like he can go, oh, we got them some land back.
They gave some land back.
Fine.
I mean, really, what this is is Vladimir Putin carved up Ukraine and took the parts that he wanted, but whatever.
We don't got to say that out loud.
Who cares?
But I think, but that's what Donald Trump is referring to there.
And so he's at least signaling that he thinks that deal can be made.
Now that, you know, we're a long way from having the deal done, but we're at a much better point now than we were just last week and certainly for the last few months.
So that I think is at least something to be optimistic about.
And yeah, it's it's it's you know, it was interesting having this general there because at one point I said something like this.
And then the other guy on the panel, and this was the only for most of the panel, I was just calm and just made my points.
And it's just like everyone was having their turn.
And I was just like, I'll say better shit when it's my turn.
But then at one point, I did snap on the other guy because I said something about that, how we should all be rooting for.
And he goes, What are you, Neville Chamberlain?
And I just lost it on that because I just can't.
And I was like, oh my God, it was the dumbest argument in the goddamn world.
I think I called it the dumbest, most low IQ argument in the world.
I went, That's right.
Appeasement is always wrong.
That's the lesson of history.
Appeasement is always wrong, and aggression is always right.
And then he goes, He goes, You don't have to respond with ad hominems.
And it's just, it really is funny just how stupid all these supposed experts are.
And you're like, dude, that's not even an ad hominem.
Saying your argument is stupid isn't an ad hominem.
An ad hominem is attacking the person rather than the argument.
I'm attacking the argument.
I'm name-calling it, sure, but it deserves all of those names.
Like anyway, but it's wild that now people have to somehow go, No, this is bad.
We shouldn't be meeting to negotiate a peace.
It really is just like, as even the Ukrainian people don't want to fight anymore.
And you're still what, insisting that they do, insisting that they fight a war that they can't win when everybody already knows.
Like there's not one million.
At one point, the guy said to me, and this was what was kind of great of having this general there.
So at one point, the guy goes to me and he goes, he goes, oh, so that's what you are, Neville Chamberlain.
You know, after I told him he was an idiot.
And he goes, he goes, well, you are Neville Chamberlain.
You just want to give Ukrainian territory to Vladimir Putin.
Well, I will not give Ukrainian territory to Vladimir Putin.
And I went, you're not giving anything.
He took it and you can't do anything about it.
I go, what do you want to do?
You want to send in the 82nd airborne?
You want to fight like a World War II style war against Russia with both of us having nuclear weapons?
And we'll fight a World War II war that will turn to a nuclear war over whether Luhansk is ruled by Kiev or Moscow.
That's worth a World War II war to you that will go nuclear.
And, you know, and then he goes, well, we don't have to do that.
We can impose sanctions.
And I just laughed.
I was like, sanctions.
And then the general was there.
So this helped out because I just went, Hey, general, just back me up.
You're the military expert here.
Sanctions can recover Ukrainian territory.
Do you want, will you go on record and tell me if that's true or not true?
And then he has to go, well, no.
Sanctions weren't like, anyway, it was just a the war can't be won for Ukraine.
They're not taking their territory back.
The only question now is if you can get this deal or worse, if Vladimir Putin will settle with the Donbass and Crimea, or if he wants war, or if he wants more, more war and more territory.
That's the only debate here now.
So let's get this meeting going.
Yeah, just a couple of things.
One is for all the people who are like, America is going to look weak and we can't walk away from this, blah, blah, blah.
I don't know.
We've lost a lot of wars since World War II.
We have.
Yeah, really.
We had North and South Korea.
We had whatever went on in Iraq and Afghanistan, which I guess we won, but just went on forever and cost us a lot of money.
And I'm not really sure what we won.
So for all these people who are like, America, we can't look weak on the world stage.
I don't know.
It's happened four times.
So I don't really know what's so scary about a failed war.
It's like you guys made your money, ran it for as long as he needed.
And like, I don't even think winning it was really on the table or what the agenda was.
So who cares?
Just call it a quits.
And then also, if this is the deal that he ends up with, I don't know why he couldn't have actually have done it in week one as opposed to flirting with mineral deals and whatever else.
India Tariff Deadlines00:03:51
I don't really know why, you know.
In fact, I think Trump politically would have been better off just being like, yeah, this was Biden's mess.
We're not supporting it.
And we're going to force Zelensky to call it a day.
I think no matter what, maybe you needed to let it play out, but it seems like you're coming to the exact same place.
But the last variable on the table here is that Trump was saying he was going to, I think it was tariff an additional 25% to anybody that was buying oil from Russia, which I think was, I mean, I've said this before on the show, but that was really just the whole war in a nutshell was week one when China and India decided that they weren't going to join us in bullying Russia.
And once they decided they were going to continue to, you know, we bullied Germany into backing us.
We bullied a lot of people into backing us and having this war.
But once China and India said we're going to continue to trade with Russia, I don't think this thing was economically catastrophic because they were still able to sell their natural gas.
And so, you know, you could kind of then just game plan, oh, this is going to go on forever.
A bunch of people are going to die and nothing's going to happen.
It just, I think what Biden was hoping would happen did not happen in week one, and you could have called it a war.
But Trump is escalating that now because he wants to say that we're going to tariff India additional 25%, which I think puts them up to 50%.
And then you got to wonder, well, how does that play out?
Like, what does a 50% tariff on India looks like?
Or does Trump then look weak because he's got to back away from the 50% tariff on India?
The point I'm saying is like Trump, he started with the 50 days and then he 80 D. He's like, why am I waiting 50 days?
You guys are having a war.
Let's just do it in 14 days.
And then I think he's kind of up against his own deadline and whether or not he actually has to stick by tariffs and potentially, you know, just uniting India, Russia, and China more.
Yeah, I think that's, I think that's right.
And of course, if you remember at the very beginning of the war in 22, Joe Biden was saying that we can win the war with sanctions alone, like that we never need to send weapons packages in.
That was the first starting point.
And he was bragging about how these sanctions were going to destroy the ruble and it was stronger by the end of the year.
Joe Biden policies did end up destroying the dollar, but that's not at least what he said the goal was supposed to be.
And yeah, I mean, look, to your other point, which I do think is a really important one.
And I don't like when people say that, hey, when America, you know, withdraws from a war, we look weak on the global stage and therefore that empowers our enemies.
I'm not, I'm open to the possibility that there's something to that.
You know what I mean?
Like, I don't know.
I don't think it's necessarily entirely a coincidence.
And I've seen some reporting on this, although I don't know how solid it is, but that the America retreating from Afghanistan in defeat and disgrace is part of what emboldened Vladimir Putin to go do it.
Like now's the moment when I think I could do this thing.
Obviously, there were several other motivations there too.
But I'm like open to the fact that there's probably some truth to that.
When we look weak, other people might feel a little bit more ballsy.
But the point is that like, yeah, that's why you don't get yourself into stupid wars that you can't win.
Like that's just a stronger argument for having Ron Paul's foreign policy all the time.
And for anyone, like you think about this, this was the argument that they made even as the war was winding down in Afghanistan when Joe Biden, under Donald Trump's framework, pulled out of the war in Afghanistan.
They were saying, oh, well, look weak.
We can't turn tail and run.
And you're like, dude, we've been here for 20 years.
Like at a certain point, you just, and we've been there for 20 years and the military we were building up fell in a week.
Competing Cleansing Plans00:07:02
So like, what the hell?
How, you know, what did we need?
Another 20 years to get them through a month or something like that?
So obviously you run into the realities of these unwinnable wars and then you have to get out of there.
Eventually the people won't stand for it anymore.
And so, yeah, the point is you don't want to get to that position because then, yeah, it does look pretty bad and pretty weak.
Okay.
You know, like you said, I agree with your point.
I think it's a little overhyped.
Like we've looked weak and bad and pulled out of losing wars in the past and doesn't result in calamity.
But if there is some cost associated with that, then it's just all the more reason why you shouldn't get in these things to begin with.
All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, who I'm just absolutely thrilled to have on board.
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Okay, the other, let's switch over, I guess, and talk just a little bit about Israel, the latest, I guess, is which I, you know, I don't have that much to say on because it's just a lot of stuff that I've already said, but it is worth talking about that Benjamin Netanyahu now officially has declared that Israel will be occupying Gaza and they're taking it back.
And so this is kind of in contrast with what Donald Trump said that the U.S. was going to take Gaza.
And, you know, at this point, I don't exactly know.
We've got some like competing ethnic cleansing plans.
There was Trump's ethnic cleansing plan and there's Smotrich's.
You know, who knows exactly what the next stage of it is going to be.
But it is, it's a pretty bold move.
And it, you know, one of the things that's very interesting is that, and there's been some, you know, a lot of very interesting articles on this, particularly in the Israeli media over the last few days.
But like there were Benjamin Netanyahu, Benjamin Netanyahu made this announcement over significant pushback from his own war cabinet and from his own government.
Now, there were a lot of people who really, really were like, yo, we can't do this now, man.
And their concern, I mean, they had some logistical concerns about how long it would take to actually occupy Gaza and how much it would cost.
Because of course, like, you know, occupying the West Bank is very expensive.
Occupying Gaza is expensive.
And there were also concerns that they think that surely this will lead to the death of the remaining hostages, that if the IDF actually moves in to occupy the place, Hamas is going to kill all these people.
And that they're just worried about.
One of the major concerns is that they go, dude, we just, we're already losing global opinion.
And this just makes it look so much worse.
Like, no matter how you try to spin this, if you end up just annexing, which is more likely than occupying at this point, I think, but if you just end up occupying or annexing this land, then it just, no matter how you try to spin it, it makes it look like to everyone, oh, that's what the plan was all along.
And that's what you were always trying to do.
And there's certainly, you know, there were people who that was their plan all along.
I don't know if that was everybody in the Israeli government's plan, but if you end up doing that, it really doesn't matter at the end of the day.
You know, it's like, it's like sitting and debating whether was the final solution always Hitler's plan, or did he just, you know, enact that after the war had broken out?
It's like, well, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day now, does it?
It's like you still did it.
It doesn't matter whether or not it's like, I don't know, you threatened to do it at the very beginning, then a war happened, then you did it.
Who cares?
You're guilty.
And that's going to be the response to this stuff with Israel too.
It's just, it's, it's just too wild to imagine.
But Benjamin Netanyahu has come out and announced that they're doing it.
So it does seem like this is going to happen.
Yeah, it certainly seemed, I mean, they're going for it.
And then I guess it's going to be a question of if world support so turns on them that U.S. actually stops.
It seems like he just has a blank check from Trump of that's not our plan.
We don't agree with the plan, but it's his call.
And once he makes the call, we'll continue to support them.
But that's not what I want to do.
I'd just like to see peace there.
What's happening is terrible, but whatever Netanyahu says and whatever he needs to make whatever decision he wants to make, that just seems to be the way the president that Trump's playing it is just, here's your check.
Don't like what's going on there.
We need you to wrap it up.
It's got to be better.
Do you need another check?
You know, that just seems to be what's happening.
And I do wonder four and eight years down the line if Israel's really just completely lost U.S. support, if there's actually a change of the guard of someone who is less interested in supporting them after, especially once this war is over.
I'm going to assume there's going to be more media coverage of what actually happened and some of the dust settles.
I can't imagine Israel is going to be able to keep journalists out of the region forever.
Yeah, no, that's, well, we'll see.
They've kept him out for a while.
I mean, there's some in there, but they do kill a lot of those ones.
But yeah, it's, you know, I remember I've brought this up so many times over the years.
It was a joke you made, like, I don't know, like probably going on 10 years ago or something like that now.
But I always loved it where you were, you know, you're saying this in, you know, it's tongue-in-cheek, but like there's a point to it.
But what you were saying, like, can they just put one non-Jew as the chairman of the Federal Reserve?
Which I guess they did end up doing ultimately.
Israel Support Erosion00:02:43
We got one.
But there's a, but like you're, the joke was you were just like, I mean, they keep making Jews the head of the central bank.
And you were like, could you just put someone else there so like my family doesn't get killed in the backlash to you ripping off the entire it is like a thing where you're like, could could we just not have a Jew?
Anyway, the point is just that it's some of these things are so, it's like if you, if you were like long-term rooting for a rise in Jew hatred, you'd almost go like, ah, perfect.
Yes, this is great.
Did you see the other day?
Did we talk about this on the members only?
I can't remember, but they changed the language a little bit and walked it back because they were getting so much pushback.
But do you see this thing where Trump actually wrote into the executive action that if you that disaster relief could be withheld from states who supported boycotting Israel?
And it does, I think the example.
I don't know.
Was I saying this on the show?
No, I don't think so.
I think I was just, but this is the on the show.
No, so this is, no, I think I was just saying this in a conversation with someone the other day, but conversations with you and other people all bleed into my memory of this show.
But it's like, you remember, you remember at the debate with Joe Biden, like at the very, very beginning of the disastrous debate that was the end of Joe Biden's political career, we all knew, like maybe five minutes into the debate, that Joe Biden was done.
Like we all knew that it was like, oh, there's no coming back from this.
And part of the reason why we knew that was like, it's not just because his opening to the debate was so bad, but it was because you knew on some level that like the toothpaste was out of the tube now.
Like now you just even before it cut back to the corporate media, you know, who had just been saying he's sharp as attack, and then it cut back to them and they were like, we got to find a new candidate.
But you, you knew before it cut back to them that like, there's no way they can deny this now.
And now what's going to happen is that every senior moment is going to be under a microscope.
You know what I mean?
So like, but you know, if Joe Biden comes out for his next interview after that debate, if it was a month ago and he got a name or a date wrong, it wouldn't be that big of a deal.
But now when he starts getting things wrong, you're really looking at it, you know?
And in a similar way, I just think we've hit some type of critical mass here where examining, examining the U.S.-Israeli relationship is so in the consciousness now that all of these things are put.
And so now it's like, well, you have something like that.
Asymmetrical Warfare Traps00:07:27
It's like, wait, wait, there's just no way that people can't look at it and go, wait, what?
Wait, disaster relief?
First of all, even if you consider opposing Israel being anti-Semitic or something like that, like who cares what bigotry anyone has when we're talking about disaster belief?
Like you wouldn't, you wouldn't be like, you know, like if a nurse at a hospital was like, oh, that person's a racist, so I'm not giving them medicine.
Like any civilized person would be like, well, no, You don't like, you don't play around with that.
Like that, whatever their politics or their views on life, like that has nothing to do with whether you treat a sick person.
It's a human being.
But then to add in that it's a foreign country, that you're like, you would withhold disaster relief against your fellow countrymen because they're not sufficiently loyal to a foreign country.
It's just, you just look at stuff like this and you're like, dude, there's no way you're never going to be able to convince people that they didn't see what they just saw.
And it is, I don't know, it's unbelievable to me that they're still going forward with this, even when it is so obvious.
The writing is all over the wall that this is going to turn everyone against you forever.
Like, how is that?
How is that cost not greater than whatever benefit you think you get from reoccupying the Gaza Strip?
It's just, it's, it's really wild to me.
Yeah, I don't get the calculation because I was thinking that too, that it's starting to feel if you game plan it out a little bit like what Scott Horden has described of what Osama bin Laden did to the United States, basically with CIA training, which is pull an empire into a war and keep them dry.
And this feels similar of pull Israel into a war and, you know, have them commit things that people that, you know, people of general morality will stand against and then like start looking into the general support for Israel and possibly turn against it.
And feels like it feels like they're losing a longer strategic game of having the United States as an ally because it just seems like the general support for Israel in this country is Falling off a cliff.
No, that's exactly right.
Because, and, and look, this is like when the CIA was training the Arab Mujahideen as well as the Afghan Mujahideen.
What is the whole thing that they're training them in, right?
It's like it's, it's, it's asymmetrical warfare.
And in asymmetrical warfare, the action is always in the reaction.
You're always trying to provoke that.
There's this great scene in that movie that I really loved at the time.
I haven't seen it in like many decades, but there was a movie, I think it was called Enemy of the State with Will Smith and Gene Hackman.
Do you remember that?
Sure, yeah.
But so, like, basically, Will Smith's at the mall for his girl.
Yeah, he was, that's right.
And someone, you know, like put something on him.
So now, like, the CIA is coming after him.
He's just some guy in the CIA.
And he ends up talking to Gene Hackman, who plays like this old spook who's like, you know, living off the grid or something.
But there was this great scene where Gene Hackman starts breaking it down for him, which is basically, you know, the idea of asymmetrical warfare.
He's like, okay, look, they're big and you're small, but that means they're stagnant and you're mobile or they can reach everywhere.
And, you know, he goes through like, there's just this great scene where he goes through the advantages of the little guy versus the big guy or whatever.
But so, right, it's always bin Laden didn't think he could bankrupt America by knocking down the World Trade Center, but he did think that if he did that, he could get them to invade Afghanistan and that that could bankrupt America.
That's always the game.
And likewise, and by the way, the Israelis themselves and their advocates will admit this.
They'll say it as an argument for why Hamas is the bad guy.
No, this is what Hamas.
Hamas loves dead Palestinians, you know?
They love that so that they can use that as their propaganda.
And it's like to them in their mind, they think that sounds like a good point.
But to the rest of us, sane people, we're like, yeah, we already knew Hamas was bad.
Yeah, obviously.
Like they're a terrorist organization.
Yes, they don't mind dead innocent people.
But the point is that, like, yeah, why do something like October 7th?
Like, look, say what you want.
You could just dismiss, oh, they're barbarians and, you know, they're evil doers or something like that.
But look, they had a coordinated land, sea, and air attack.
Some level of sophistication there.
So what were they trying to do planning all of that out?
Are they just trying to kill a bunch of Israelis?
And that's that?
It's like, obviously, they know anyone who's smart enough to coordinate a land, sea, and air attack is also smart enough to know what Israel's response to this was going to be, or at least somewhere in the, maybe people wouldn't know they'd go this far, but you know, they'll be, and that's the whole game.
Get Israel to respond and then get them to overextend and then expose them as the baby killers to the world.
And man, they could not have fallen into this trap any more than they have.
And so, yeah, the whole point of that is not because, you know, when people argue against it, they'll go, oh, so you're saying you're on the side of Hamas or you're on the side of al-Qaeda or something.
It's like, no, I'm saying like, don't fall into their trap.
That seems like not the wise course of action.
I don't know what the plan from here is.
It's either they think that they've got so much of a grip on propaganda that they're going to get this done and everyone's going to forget about it on a five and ten year timeline and they've got enough resources in the U.S. to make sure that the lobbyists will continue the support and so nothing else really matters.
Or I don't know, maybe, and this wouldn't have been on my prediction scorecard, but maybe they institute a new government and that new government actually works a lot better.
And so now they have good storylines from the new government.
And over time, people forget about the atrocities that got to there.
And Israel's almost able to justify it as, yeah, but look at how much better it is for the Palestinians now.
I don't imagine that's the way it's going to play out, but I guess.
Yeah.
My honest guess of it, like my feel is that, do you ever watch, you ever watch Chuck Liddell at the end of his career?
Yeah, you know, Chuck Liddell, Chuck Liddell was the UFC light heavyweight champion, you know, debatably the greatest UFC light heavyweight champion.
I mean, he was huge.
Yeah, he had a huge part in blowing up the sport of the UFC.
And then he got knocked out, and then he got knocked out again, and then he got knocked out again, and then his chin just went.
And anytime anyone hit him, he would go on.
He was unbeatable for a period of time.
I mean, he lost a couple fights in there, but he was dominant as a champion for a long time.
And then his chin went.
And at the end of his career, you could see him.
He had a couple more fights than he should have had.
But you could see in his mind, he was like, nah, dude, I'm going to get him back.
Like he was Chuck Liddell.
Cause like in his mind, he's like, I'm Chuck Liddell, dude.
I'm the guy.
You know, he was that guy who was just devastating everyone.
And yeah, I got knocked out a few times, but you know, in his mind, he's like, no, I'm going to go.
And I do feel like it's almost like that, where like they just controlled the narrative and controlled the media apparatus and controlled the conversation and people's opinions for so long that they're like, nah, we'll get it back.
Let me go sit down with the Nelk boys.
Hexclad Kitchen Upgrade00:03:03
We'll get this thing back.
You know what I mean?
Like they really, they, I really think are drastically underestimating the reality, which is that they're never getting it back.
That's over.
We live, we live in a post decentralized media destruction of Gaza world now, and we're not going back to the way it was.
I mean, I really do think for the, for the, um, for the foreseeable future, the opinion of young people in America, and this is true on the left and the right, the, it, the range is like from left-winger who thinks that Israel is a colonizing genocidal state to, you know, us and Tucker Carlson and Scott Horton and like the non-interventionist,
more right-wing types to Nick Fuentez.
Like that's the range of opinion.
It, it, you know, different people are at different stations along that continuum or whatever, but it's all people who see through like all this bullshit.
And, you know, I would, I would hope that I can have whatever influence I have to try to channel that toward a not crazy leftist or crazy Jew hater, but just common sense, you know, loving America and not wanting us to be unconditionally supporting a rogue foreign state, you know, like hopefully that's where it goes.
But I do not think there's any chance it's going back into the like we see Israel as our most important ally.
And these are just the victims of the Holocaust in World War II who are trying to be good little Jewish boys and defend themselves.
Like, I just don't think anyone's, anyone's buying that anymore.
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Comedian Trans Rights Debate00:15:06
All right, let's get back on the show.
Okay, in the time we have left, I do want to get to this slightly less serious topic, but I just, I found this really interesting and it's so, it's so right up our ally.
It's just kind of right up our alley.
Um, it's just very, you know, we're uniquely kind of positioned to comment on this, but there was a clip of Mark Maron who was on with Howie Mandel, and he was kind of talking about the state of comedy, post-Donald Trump being elected.
Um, so I, I want to play this clip and kind of respond to it a little bit.
I will just say, going into this, you know, if people don't know, Mark Maron's a stand-up comedian, he, his podcast was, um, I think it was enormous for a while.
Um, his, what's it called?
What, uh, what the fuck was his podcast?
WTF.
WTF?
Mark Marin.
That's right.
So that, uh, that was for a while there.
I remember it was like him and Rogan were the two huge, it was like him, Rogan, Carola.
There were a lot of like when podcasting, it's not that they were the first generation of podcasters, but they were like the first generation of like giant podcasts that became huge and ended up being much bigger than TV shows or anything in kind of like the corporate world.
So anyway, he was on and he was talking about the state of comedy and kind of anti-woke comedy.
I just honestly, just to preface this, I will just say I have no anti-Mark Maron bias at all.
Mark Maron, I always thought of as like, first off, he's a funny comedian and funny comedians are like, to me, always on team funny comedians.
Like I just, I really enjoy good stand-up comedy and I always, I don't really care what your political views are.
I like people who are good at writing jokes.
And then aside from that, he was really helpful to my good friend Nate Bargetti when he was first coming up in his career and like had him opening for him when Mark Maron was huge and Nate was just starting to get traction.
And that was a big deal for Nate at the time.
And so I'm always just grateful to people who help out people I love.
So like I don't come at this from a perspective of having any animosity toward Mark Maron.
I just thought that it was interesting to hear like the other side's perspective, like a comedian who's kind of sad that the woke trend is over and the anti-woke trend has begun amongst comedians or whatever.
And that to me was just kind of interesting to break this down.
But anything you want to say before we play the clip, Rob, or should we go right into it?
I think that's a fair enough introduction.
All right, let's let's play Mark Maron here.
At this point, it's lazy and sloppy and hackneyed, you know, to be in a fucking club where, you know, I'm walking down the hall at the comedy club or and you know, in one room, someone's doing their bit about trans people.
And then I get down the hall and there's someone on stage going, well, I guess I got to do my bit about trans people.
Like, no, you don't.
You don't.
It's hack now.
I mean, you know, you guys got the freedom you wanted.
You can now say whatever you want.
They're defeated.
Their rights have been denied.
The policies that you guys encouraged, which are your stupid material, are now policy.
And now, like, you know, half the people under the umbrella of anti-woke for a second.
I just, um, first of all, I can look, I, I can understand kind of in a way, you know, being it's hard within the comedy world, particularly.
And a lot of this just is because of the kind of the juggernauts of podcasting, like the people who have just become the biggest in the podcasting space, which just happens to be the thing that's blowing up right now.
And that's where the biggest audiences are.
And that's what, so those are the biggest comedians.
But the guys like Rogan and Tim Dylan and Andrew Schultz and Theo Vaughn and like a lot of these guys who are just so big.
You know, were really kind of pushed back hard against the woke culture.
And I would, I would argue heroically and very importantly.
But it is, it's a weird thing to be in a spot like the woke.
It's hard to overstate woke comedy was so on top in like 2017, 2018, 2019 that you can, you can hear the frustration in him.
Being like, why are we, why are we so on the bottom now?
Like we literally went from being the dominant cultural view to being the punchline.
Everybody's just making fun of us.
But the issue here is that, and look, I'm never defending hack comedy.
There's, there's a lot of lazy comedy out there and people, you know, this is always the truth.
There's a lot of comedians who do low-hanging fruit and do like kind of the easiest jokes.
And it's not that original.
It's not that funny.
But it seems to me like Mark Maron isn't even listening to the jokes.
He's just like, oh, I walked into a room and he's joking about trans and he's joking about trans.
And as a brilliant comedian once told me, there's no hack premises, only hack punchlines.
And it doesn't matter if you could take a topic that's been done by 100,000 comedians and you could make it your own and make it hilarious.
And that's so it's like, I don't know, what did they do with the joke, Mark?
You know, and the other thing is like, I don't know, dude.
Trans, transgenderism is inherently a kind of funny topic.
And I don't see why you couldn't admit that even if you're trans yourself or someone you love is trans.
It's kind of a funny topic.
And so, yeah, people are free to make jokes about it.
I don't know.
Any thoughts on this opening, Rob?
Well, I would just, this is the autism in me, but I'd love to know what government policy he thinks was influenced by comedians and what rights he feels are lost by trans people that comedians are making worse.
Like what exact pot is he defending that children should have more access to what he views as health care and we view as child abuse?
Is he viewing that women should be in men's sports and that that's their right?
Is he saying that all of us should contribute more on our healthcare policies, that there should be more life-altering surgeries for what other people might deem to be mental illness and not actually helpful to the individuals who are going through a trans dilemma?
Listen, I'm all for freedom.
Go live your life.
Go be as trans as you'd like to be.
I do not care.
And I've made jokes about the topic, but most of my jokes about the topic were kind of from the angle of the women in sports that I think is unfair.
The fact that we're bringing this to kids, I think is a disaster.
And listen, I don't even think, you know, comedy needs to have a point of view or perspective.
It just needs to be funny.
But I'll just say that the jokes that I made were, you know, rooted in that, in that point of view.
But like, I don't know, this to me and fighting were, but it's like this bitchy thing of pretending like there's some sort of a tragic outcome because of, or that people are like, what exactly is your perspective?
What are you advocating for here that you actually think comedians are taking away from somebody?
Because I don't think there's something there.
I don't actually think there's even a defensible position here, but he's like lording it like, oh, I'm the nicest person in the room and I'm the guy with compassion and all these hacks out there who are making these easy jokes where why you've already had your victory party of the meanness that you've projected on.
And it's like, no, no one here, I think, is being mean.
I think they thought it was psychotic that this was being brought to kids and that it was child abuse and we needed to push back about it.
We thought that well, it's look, this is that's that's exactly right.
And it's, it's always kind of like assumed on on with what these left-wing types argue.
It's always just assumed that they're the good guy and you're the bad guy.
And they never actually have to argue why they're the good guy and you're the bad guy.
It's just like that's premise number one that we're starting with.
And then on top of that, we can just sprinkle in claims about rights willy-nilly without ever having to explain.
Like, I'm sorry, but like there's, you know, every in every state, in every town in America, everybody has the right to be transgender, you know, like you, you have the right to do that.
Nobody's, nobody's taken away like a natural human right from transgender people.
There, there are issues that have very little to do with rights.
Like it's the idea that like you have, you don't have a right to compete on the women's team.
Like you don't, in the same way, I don't have a right to compete on the women's team.
Like I don't, when I, you know, when I was in high school, I played on the boys' basketball team.
I didn't have a right to go play on the girls' team.
So again, it's like you're building in an assumption there that transgender people like should be a lat.
But then you might ask the question, like, well, why don't I have the right?
Why don't I have the right to play on the girls' team when I was an 18-year-old in high school?
Well, because I'm a guy.
And that's not because I identify as a guy.
It's a biological thing because you are a man.
So biology doesn't change with your view.
That's not a hateful or like, again, it's like they conflate that as if like we're just being a dick.
Like I'm just saying like, hey, everyone, go pick on and laugh at the transgender person.
Make that person whose life is already difficult more difficult.
But like, that's not what any of the comedians that he's talking about have ever said or anything close to that.
And that's never the spirit of their jokes, you know?
Like, and how about like, in fact, I think a lot of, if you go look through the years of the woke shit, a lot of those transgender activists, maybe they were the mean ones.
Maybe they were the ones who were like being a dick to other people.
So again, it's just, he's not really making any argument.
He's just asserting that you guys all like that.
And it's just, it's such a like objectively, it's such a false interpretation of what's going on.
Like none of us are saying be dicks to trans people and take away their rights.
But anyway, let's keep playing.
I mean, just to press on this, if he was here, I would love to know.
Do you think that children should be taken away from parents who don't believe in gender affirming care and that the government should take them for their health and well-being?
Yeah, like what is the right?
And the state should sponsor the gender, the gender-affirming care?
Like, is that is that what you believe?
Do you also think that we should be teaching in schools or be more accepting of this, even though bottom surgery, I think, is mostly harmful to individuals?
I mean, I haven't done all the research on adult gender affirming care, but it doesn't seem like the technology really supports it.
And so, I mean, how much do you want to advocate for something that's a better lifestyle?
Yeah, well, before you say something like that, like what specifically are the rights that transgender people used to have that they no longer have since Joe Rogan ruined the world or whatever?
Because it does, like, I'm just saying, and I'm not, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze Mark Marin, but it does just come off that maybe you're like a little bit upset that the market kind of dictated that you're not the guy anymore.
And trans was kind of the pinnacle of a woke attitude that I, I mean, it was highly destructive to our country and our culture.
And so like that, this is just kind of like the pinnacle and the most silly thing of the stupidity that we ignored in some sort of a socialist concept for fairness, which also included, you know, trying to expand green energy and also, oh, you're not nice if you're not staying home and getting a COVID shot.
You're going to kill grandma.
It was all just this sick lunacy of socialism and fairness that people like us identify as being destructive and have different ideals and push back on.
But no, he's just without making argument, any claims, he's the nice guy here and he wants to defend what we all rejected because it was destructive.
It's not that we're mean people.
That's true.
We have a different also just when you're talking about kind of like a socialist like cultural phenomenon, it's like, and part of this is that it was, and the through line through the COVID stuff and all of this was that it for most people, I think it was like when it actually came to the issue of people who are transgender, we were all just like, I don't know, like, yeah, we were pretty libertarian about it.
We were like, it's your life, man.
Live your life the way you want to.
And I always, and still to this day, I always operate under the principle of like, don't be a dick to people.
You know, I've met lots of trans people.
I'm always, I don't know, I treat them like people, like everybody else.
Celebrate.
And we're not mean for Nazis.
But what really, I think what really started to bother people was the demand for like conformity on it and the demand that you can't even think, you can't tell the truth, what you think is the truth.
So like it would start as being like, hey, there are people who are born a guy, but identify as a woman or vice versa or whatever.
And you go, okay, well, they have a right to live their life the way they want to.
They should be treated with decency just like everybody else.
You know, let's not make anybody's life more hard.
Let's have compassion for all people.
Okay.
And then they go, trans women are women.
And you're like, well, I mean, I don't know if I'd exactly say that.
And then they go, bigot, you're a horrible person.
And you're like, well, wait a minute.
Hold on.
Like, I'm not, you can't insist that I deny biological realities and then call me a Nazi if I refuse to.
And then they started bringing it to children.
And then the reaction from that was more like, I will fucking kill you if you come near my children and fuck all this shit and fuck you.
And by the way, you're not a woman, you're a man.
And that's where that snapback came, where it was just like the culture was like, no, no, no, we're not playing these games if you're talking about like confusing and abusing children.
Like that's just not, that is a red line for decent people.
And so that, anyway, that's, that's closer to the reality of the situation.
But let's hear the rest.
I was spawning an open border for not loving Biden's wars, for not loving an inflation reduction act, for not liking a green energy policy, and for not all getting behind pretending like Kamala Harris was a coherent individual.
It's the meanness of comedians that we didn't rally behind Kamala.
We didn't, we didn't, we weren't willing to go around with the LARPing of pretending like Joe Biden didn't have dementia.
And then when they replaced her with the dumbest individual on probably in all of American politics, the fact that we weren't all just able to get behind her and go, you know what?
It's more important for this woke thing, which is against my interest because it was actually a lot of just censorship for funny jokes.
There was a lot of just censorship for well, let's here.
Let's let's get back to the clip because he's going to talk more specifically about that.
But so save that thought.
But here, let's let's keep lying.
We've lost a tremendous amount of democratic leaning ideas and movements.
So whether they knew it or not, that's what they were spearheading.
So now it's reality and you want to still keep kicking them?
I don't know that the comedians have had that much power.
Are you fucking out of your mind?
No, I'm Joe Ray.
I'm not going to.
Cultural Pushback First Amendment00:15:39
No, go ahead.
Go ahead.
You know, you can't separate.
Like if the movement is like, you know, we're being censored.
No, you're not.
You're not.
There's no constitutional censorship issue with your free speech.
You say things and in a democratic shit.
I was just true.
My channel was censored multiple times.
Well, here was my analysis for COVID, which was right.
Yes, you're absolutely energy and vaccines.
Well, hold on.
Let's just let him finish his thought here because I want you to make this point, but I want to finish his thought because it actually is worse than just that.
So here, let's keep playing and then we'll get back to this.
Show of an environment, you know, like Twitter or whatever.
There's cultural pushback, but that's a specific issue.
To frame it as some sort of free speech problem was a misdirect.
It was.
Let's pause it right now.
It was that people were getting cultural.
Okay.
So he's saying, oh, you're confusing a free speech problem with getting cultural pushback.
Now, again, like I said, I have no anti-Mark Maron bias, but Mark Marin doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about here.
He just doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
Like, I'm sorry.
No, that is not true.
That is absolutely not true.
Like, you would not say if the, if there was a, um, uh, uh, let's say there was a journalist writing for a newspaper who wanted to write some piece.
And let's say the readers of the newspaper were like, oh, we hate this guy and we don't want this piece in the newspaper.
So they didn't run it.
You could say that's cultural pushback.
That's not a violation of free speech.
That's not a constitutional issue.
But if the government hauled the head of that newspaper before Congress and threatened them for publishing this reporter's article, and then the government had a back channel with the newspaper where it was working on which journalists should be published and which one shouldn't, that is a constitutional issue.
That is a First Amendment issue.
And that's exactly what was happening with YouTube and Facebook and Twitter.
And we've got this all confirmed.
So that is just bullshit.
I'm sorry.
And by the way, you can watch for yourself the testimony when they called in all of the heads of the big tech companies and made them testify under oath.
And the Congress just threatened them up and down, threatened them about getting rid of what they deemed as misinformation and all this stuff.
And then, of course, you could look at the Twitter files or the Facebook files.
I mean, this stuff is not like, this is out in the open.
So it absolutely was.
But then I also, you know, separate from that, even if you want to say, you know, if you want to say that even say like corporations just like firing you or shutting down speech, if you want to say that's not a constitutional issue, it's like fine, but it's not exactly just cultural pushback either.
Like the irony here is that Mark Maron is actually, Mark Maron is actually suffering from cultural pushback, like genuine organic cultural pushback.
And what he's doing on this show is genuine organic cultural pushback.
This is organic pushback.
Pushback against what Joe Rogan and these guys are saying with Howie Mandel.
The problem is everyone's just going to laugh at you and tune out.
You know, you could say that Joe Rogan was spearheading this movement, but dude, you were right there with him.
You were spearheading your own movement.
You lost the argument.
Like people stopped listening to you and kept listening to him.
And in fact, started listening to him in much bigger numbers.
And so that's the cultural pushback element.
But don't tell me that like the idea that a leftist is coming out here and saying that a giant corporation dictating who can speak and who can't speak is culture.
Like even if you wanted to say that wasn't a First Amendment issue, it's not cultural pushback.
And it's very strange, like, right, Rob, don't you remember just not that many years ago when Mitt Romney made that dumbass comment about how corporations are people?
And you remember when the left lost their mind?
Like, what do you mean?
Rightfully, the left lost their mind.
You're taking some legal term and then applying it.
Like corporations are people.
No, they're not.
They're legal entities.
You know what I mean?
This is different than a human being.
But what is this other than a different way of claiming the same thing?
Oh, YouTube censor, like even if it wasn't done at the direction of the government, YouTube censoring you, Rob, that's culture.
That's the people.
That's the people censoring you.
No, it's not.
It's one corporate entity doing it and one that happens to be in bed with the government.
But even leaving that point aside, like, no, come on, dude.
What comedian could stand up for that?
What comedian could downplay that?
You should, what, if you, if what you say is offensive, you get silenced.
Mark Maron, you want to play that game?
I mean, okay.
But then, of course, the problem, and now you're upset that the cultural wind is blowing another direction.
But really, Mark Maron, you should be, you should be happy that we are all just better people than you.
You know, because like none of us are sitting here and going, hey, I find what Mark Maron's saying offensive.
You should have your life ruined.
You should be silenced.
Guys like me and you are going, you should keep putting your podcast out and see who listens to who.
Like you, you know what I mean?
Like, so it's like, it's just, it's wild to me that like one thing that, because there is really an asymmetry here in the two sides of this culture war, where like Rogan and Theo and all the, none of these guys are calling for anyone else to get shut down or would be downplaying it if you did.
Like if Mark Maron, if Mark Maron, if the Trump administration was putting pressure on whatever, you know, YouTube to not have Mark Maron or Howie Mandel on anymore, me and you would both be sitting here defending their right to free speech and saying that's an outrage and a violation of their free speech.
We wouldn't be sitting here downplaying going, that's just cultural pushback when you got kicked off of every platform.
Come on, give me a break.
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All right, let's get back into the show.
If Columbia quickly put down any anti-Israel perspectives tomorrow, would you say it's cultural pushback?
Right.
Or is it because of what the Donald Trump administration has done in terms of the way that they'll allocate funds to colleges and go after you if you're not aggressively enough, I guess, policing violence on campus and how much money was in the system for ESG and whatever other nonsense that trickled down everywhere to engage in censorship?
Sure.
It's just, yeah, the entire, the reason why the woke environment, what happened in the culture that the woke environment isn't that it's not still as favorable as it was.
I mean, if it was just the culture that loved it and it had nothing to do with government money and influence, I mean, why isn't it still popular?
What was it?
It was boy bands in the 90s.
It was just a four-year thing that we all organically got into for a couple of years and that's like, that's it.
So I guess this is now he should.
And anything, I guess he should celebrate that it's cultural pushback the other way now.
Well, right.
Yeah.
Right.
Exactly.
Here, let's play the very end of it and then we'll do one more round.
Cultural pushback.
That is not a constitutional issue.
No one was being put in jail for saying anything.
That's a free speech issue.
But my problem is, is you're going to start talking about anti-woke and that's going to be your point of view.
That's going to be your ideological grounding for what you do.
Okay, that's fine.
But why does it have to be the same four fucking things?
You know, it's like they talk about the same shit.
And I don't know a better definition of hack.
I mean, after a certain point, it's like, you know, what, so what juice does the word retard really have?
How much shit do you have to give trans people?
You know, what is your big problem with gay people?
What's your big problem with women?
It's like, what is this?
The fucking 80s again?
Well, I guess maybe it's just, look, there is somewhat of a just perspective difference here.
And I guess if I'm being really charitable, I could say that, look, I, it's not like I, there's something to his point here.
You know, I've brought this up on Legion of Skanks, but like for years, we were making like kind of like the most offensive jokes when you really weren't allowed to make them.
And I will say now that you're allowed to make them again, not quite as fun.
It's like my mind almost goes toward like, all right, well, let's do something different then.
You know what I mean?
Like let's just not say like, I don't even care about saying retarded anymore because you guys all said, I mean, I still use it and every day, just because I grew up saying it and it's a great word, but it's like, I mean, it really is just a phenomenal word.
But so I get, but like from my perspective.
So like, yeah, I'm sure it's always true that whatever the latest thing is, there's some comedians who run it into the ground.
But like there's fucking hack in every category.
Yes, exactly.
But you're going to say, I'm not currently, I got one trans joke in my act.
Four years ago, I had a seven minute chunk.
You know what I mean?
Yes.
Four years ago, it was real interesting and other people weren't really making those jokes.
Right, right.
If you were a guy who was a liberal two years ago and now all of a sudden you're putting on a leather jacket or whatever and you're trying to be edgier and now you're making all sorts of woke jokes because it's safe, you're hack.
But, you know, eight years ago, if you were telling bad one-liners and Mitch Hedburg for Joey voice, you were hacked too.
It's really not like anyone who's not.
Well, also, just it's hard after the years of woke comedy.
It's like, are we supposed to forget that?
Or you're going to tell me, oh, what do you guys?
Well, like, how many jokes were there about white men?
And how many jokes were there about racism?
And how many jobs?
I mean, literally, you're telling me after years of, and also the other thing to ignore is that even though, even though the podcast scene has become the biggest thing now, it's still hard to paint them as Goliath against you being David when you literally up until five minutes ago had every major corporation in America agreeing with you.
All of Comedy Central, all of HBO comedy, all of late night comedy, all in lockstep, making the exact same jokes about the same three topics.
Orange man, bad, white man, bad, racism, the unvaccinated.
Like it was all.
And so for you to turn around and make like, come on, dude.
And like, look, I don't know what to tell you.
Like, no, it's not the 1980s again.
The 1980s never stopped.
You never listen.
The word retarded and transgenders and women are funny.
And I would never like, there's a million different hilarious things about all of this.
What are we even talking about here?
What you can't make jokes about gay people.
The question would be, why should that be off limits?
I'm never telling a female comedian you can't make it.
What are you making another joke about men?
It's like, I don't know.
There's a lot to work with there.
So yeah, make all your jokes about men.
Hopefully it's a funny one.
But like, what are you telling me that there isn't that all those topics you just named aren't fertile ground for time?
But like, again, you could do this about anything in comedy.
You could go like, oh, oh, the differences between black people and white people.
You know how hacky of a topic that is?
You know how many different comics have had black people are like this, but white people are like this jokes.
Okay.
But Chris Rock still has some of the greatest ones ever.
You listen to one of his old and you're like, dude, that's the greatest joke I've ever heard in my life.
So what are you going to tell him he can't do that topic?
This is all just sour grapes.
And I think it's sour grapes because it's like, ironically enough, it's like you actually are facing cultural pushback.
You lost.
Your ideas were out there in the marketplace with every advantage, with advantages that the anti-woke crowd never enjoyed, like the government behind you censoring your opposition.
And you lost.
Even with all of that, you'd lost the argument amongst the American people.
And so we'll joke about whatever the fuck we want to joke about.
But I encourage Mark Marin to do the same.
And one last thing, because you had said this on the last episode, which might have been paywalled.
But one of the jokes he made in his special was attacking Theo Vaughn, seemingly for having Trump on.
And he made a joke, which I actually explored a similar premise on a runner-mouth.
And I was like, I'm sure someone's doing this bit when Netanyahu, who was on with the Nelk boys, that there's something odd about just bringing people in and being comfortable with them.
And I was trying to do a bit about like interviewing Trump and just kind of, I'm sorry, interviewing Hitler and just casually talking to him about like his Methuse Before shows type deal.
Right.
And he had a very funny joke where he was basically goofing on Theo Vaughn interviewing Hitler in a very casual fashion.
And he's doing a pretty decent Theo Vaughn impression.
It's a funny bit.
But if you just take a step back, so fine, you hate Trump.
Theo Vaughn had Trump on.
You had Obama on when Obama was trying to sell Obamacare.
You literally took a phone call from the government and said, yeah, I'll help you guys with your propaganda piece for this interview.
And sure, you might like socialized medicine or you might like what Obama did with Obamacare.
I personally don't think it, at least for me, it makes my healthcare a lot worse.
But that's fine that that's your perspective.
But then to turn around and pretend like when I had a podcast and I was interviewing a politician, that was noble.
But when someone does it for the other side, that's reprehensible behavior.
Y'all said a lot of people while Joe Biden was in office, I didn't listen to that interview.
I haven't listened to Maron in years, but it was seemingly to just treat Hunter Biden like he's a person.
That's kind of shilling for the current regime to go, oh, everyone.
Yeah, like, no, just how much a hard time.
Look, he's just a human being.
You've done this.
And I'll fucking know.
And the funny thing, that's right.
And the funny thing about it is that I always remember when Maron had Obama on, I remember just going, this is so great because it's so great for podcasts.
This makes podcasts look legitimate because it was such a big deal at the time that the president did a podcast.
But like, I never felt, but yeah, how many, like, how many tough questions did you ask him, Mark Maron?
I don't even remember if I ever listened to the interview or not.
I think I heard clips from it.
But like, did you ask him about the 500,000 people he got killed in Syria or the 500,000 people he got killed in Yemen?
Did you ask him about the drone campaign in Pakistan or like his overthrowing of Muammar Gaddafi in Libya destroying the entire country?
You know what I mean?
Like, did you?
Or did you just give him a fluffy, nice interview where you talked about how great he is and stuff, right?
So like, yeah, don't, don't sit here and turn it around if someone else also gave an interview that you think wasn't hard-hitting enough.
It's all, it's just sad, man.
Just take it.
Try to win it back.
All you can ever do in this game is go try to go try.
So you go write the funniest joke, taking all these guys down, and then go make the best argument on a podcast.
But this stuff of just whining.
He did it from a liberal perspective.
So he put it when he had a Kush podcast with someone from liberal politics.
Yes.
And that was moral and righteous.
And when someone, how dare you?
It all ends in the circular logic of like, yeah, but I'm on Team Good Guy.