Dave Smith analyzes the Jeffrey Epstein cover-up's impact on Donald Trump, noting the President is being "ratioed" on Truth Social for dismissing the scandal despite his base's fury. Smith contrasts this with Tucker Carlson's successful defiance of censorship against figures like Daryl Cooper, arguing that elite propaganda control has fractured. He refutes claims of a new hoax, pointing out mainstream media buried the story during Trump's presidency, concluding that governments relying on narrative manipulation face unprecedented legitimacy crises when their audiences reject official lines. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Tucker Carlson's Shocking Claims00:09:44
What's up?
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
I am Dave Smith.
I am rolling solo for this episode.
Rob is doing Rob Bernstein things, but I will be meeting up with him tomorrow in Cleveland, Ohio.
I'm there tomorrow and all weekend, Thursday, Friday, Saturday at Hilarities in Cleveland.
Really looking forward to this one.
It's been a little while since we've been out there, and it's one of my favorite clubs.
And the tickets are selling fast.
So go grab them.
There's still some available.
Comicdave Smith.com.
Come hang with me and Robbie the Fire Bernstein in Cleveland this weekend.
And then my next stop after that is off to the mothership, but that's all sold out.
So thank you if you did buy tickets and we'll see you out there.
ComicdaveSmith.com for all the dates for the rest of the year.
All right.
So for today's show, I kind of, I wanted, I had some stuff on my mind that I thought I would talk to you guys about.
And it's a continuation for sure of the things we've been talking about the last few episodes, but with a slightly different angle on it.
If you guys haven't already watched the last episode that we just did, that was my reflections on the debate at Turning Point USA.
Go watch that one if you haven't already, because I don't want to repeat what I said in the last episode, or not too much of it at least.
But we are going to be talking a little bit more about the Jeffrey Epstein cover-up and how this is affecting Donald Trump's administration, but a few specific angles about it.
But anyway, if you go watch that episode if you haven't before you watch this one or whatever, I mean, you can keep watching this one.
But for full context, maybe go do that one first.
And of course, the main, my main takeaway or the main focus, the biggest part of the last episode wasn't even really about my debate at that turning point.
It was about where the Trump base is, at least where the Trump activist base is, and how much things are changing so quickly.
That, you know, we're in the middle of this massive political realignment.
And that's been apparent for, I think, years now.
It's really been apparent over the last, you know, year and a half.
But you're seeing, I think, kind of the fruit of that.
So this, this whole thing with the way Trump's base is furious about this issue and is not going along with Donald Trump on this issue is the product of many things.
And one of them is that there's been a massive realignment politically.
And one of them is that there's been a massive realignment in terms of media.
And what really, you know, obviously this is something I've been talking about for a long time, but what really got me thinking about this was yesterday, Tucker Carlson put out a trailer for his show that he's going to be doing tomorrow, which I really cannot wait to watch.
I'll be on an airplane for part of the day, but I will try my best to get it to watch it as soon as I can.
So I had known or I had heard rumors from very credible sources that this episode was coming.
And I, you know, I had an obvious reaction to it, which was like, oh, yeah, hell yeah, this is awesome.
And also it just represented to me that like, oh, Tucker Carlson is really leaning into it.
Like he is just not going to be bullied by these guys.
And so for those of you guys who don't know, and I'm sure probably everyone knows this, right?
But so Daryl Cooper, who's a good friend of mine, good friend of the shows, and just like a brilliant guy who does amazing work.
I really, really highly recommend the Martyr Maid podcast.
What Daryl does, which is quite different from what the rest of us do, is he does these long form history podcasts where he'll take a topic and then do like it ranges on how long they are, depending on what the topic is, but they're all long form history podcasts.
And some of them, like his most famous one, I believe, and I'm proud to have played a small part in promoting it and making it such a popular podcast, but it was Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem, which was the history from the creation of Zionism through the creation of the state of Israel.
And the podcast is like 30 something hours long.
I mean, it's like, it's like several books on tape, essentially, but it is so detailed and so nuanced and just brilliant and really gives you a great perspective about the conflict.
And again, really, he does a phenomenal job of not being of being fair and treating the history with the respect that it deserves.
And one of the reasons why it was so well received and it's such an incredible piece of work is because people from people with very different perspectives on the history could look at that and go like, all right, he did really tackle this in a very fair way.
Anyway, he's lots of other of his other long form podcasts are just great, really, really great.
His his, he did a deep dive on Epstein, which is, you know, going to be more relevant to this discussion than anything else he's probably done.
But his, his, the anti-humans, which was about the communists, was phenomenal.
Blacks and Jews was really, really good.
It's just about the history of the kind of like the history of the relationship between the Jewish community and the black community in America.
Very, very well done.
And he's got a bunch of others that are just great.
Anyway, so last time Dal Cooper was on Tucker Carlson, it set off this storm.
I mean, it was like literally nothing else that I could think of even compares to it.
It was the, it triggered everyone to the point that it's been the topic of conversation on shows I've been on so many times.
Like I've never had anything that got that I saw generated so much outrage.
It affected me from just being like, like near the blast site or something like that, just from being friends with Daryl is everybody wanted to ask me about that on every appearance I was on, where he made this, you know, essentially he made this shocking claim that maybe Winston Churchill mishandled things and played a role in leading to the catastrophe that was World War II.
And of course, he's got a big World War II series coming up.
But so Tucker got like all of this backlash, unlike really almost nothing you could compare it to for having him on the first time.
And so when I found out Tucker was going to have him on a second time, especially after, you know, Tucker's had this run of like, you know, interviewing the Iranian president, interviewing the great Scott Horton.
He had a great podcast with Cigar and Jetty.
And that now he's, he goes to Turning Point USA.
He says that point blank that Epstein was working for the Mossad.
And now he's having Daryl Cooper back on.
I mean, just like really leaning into it.
Like it's a very, it's a very loud signal from Tucker Carlson that like, you're just not going to silence me.
You're not, I'm not going to move off of this path one beat just because you're shrieking racist at me or whatever.
And good for him for doing that.
But I didn't even realize how hard he was prepared to go until I saw this trailer.
So I want to play this for you.
Tucker Carlson put this out yesterday about the podcast that's coming out tomorrow.
Let's play the trailer and then we'll discuss a few things.
How would you assess Winston Churchill?
We are honored to welcome back the most august historian in America, a man of such immense gravity and wisdom and insight.
He makes her episodes like a TikTok influencer.
The man, of course, is our friend Daryl Cooper.
Daryl Cooper, Daryl Cooper, Derek Cooper, Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan.
Both are treating him like the best and most important historian working in the United States.
Thinks he's an expert on church show.
Members of Congress and even the White House denounce Tucker Carlson and Daryl Cooper.
The fact that in 2024, something like this becomes a huge hit online is a terrible employment of American education.
Hated by all the right people for all the wrong reasons.
He joined us for a live stream edition of this show, Thursday, 8 p.m. Eastern, History Without Lies.
We hope you will join us that night, 8 p.m. Eastern, this Thursday, for the total history of the Jeffrey Epstein case and the ongoing cover-up.
Who was Jeffrey Epstein?
Who is he working for?
Where did he get all that money?
What did he do?
And who protected him?
Those answers from America's most honest and best informed historian, Daryl Cooper.
We hope you'll join us.
Maybe I'm being a little hyperbolic, maybe.
But I told him that I thought Churchill was the chief villain of the Second World War.
Hey, guys, I have been lucky in life and I have this thick Jewish hair, but a lot of people are not that lucky.
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The Corruption of DC Markets00:15:05
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All right, let's get back into the show.
All right.
So look, there's a lot.
There's so much going on here.
Now, of course, I'm saying this ahead of the episode itself, but I've listened to Darrell Cooper's long form podcast on Jeffrey Epstein and I know him very well.
So like I have an idea of what to expect.
But I just, as I saw this, I was just kind of blown away by the moment that it represents.
And it's, you know, it really is hard to overstate how different this is than the way things used to be.
And it just got me thinking about a lot of bigger themes.
And so I like, if I could zoom out for a second, I'd start here.
I remember when once, this was many years ago, but I remember Lou Rockwell was talking about the Mises Institute.
Now, for people who don't know what the Mises Institute is, the Mises Institute was started by Murray Rothbard and Lou Rockwell.
And it was started to kind of continue promoting the work of Ludwig von Mises and Murray Rothbard and then later Hans Hermann Hoppe as well.
And essentially what had happened.
So Murray Rothbard is basically like my biggest influence in terms of like a political theorist.
He was just a... a legit genius, one of the brightest minds of the 20th century.
He was an economist and a historian and a philosopher and just a truly brilliant guy.
His work is incredible.
And so after I found Ron Paul, he kept talking about Murray Rothbard and the Mises Institute.
He was, he didn't have an official position there, but he was like, I think, you know, good friends with all the guys.
And they were kind of like did a lot of the intellectual work that he was pointing to.
And so Murray Rothbard was first at the Cato Institute.
And so the Cato Institute was started by the Koch brothers and Murray Rothbard.
And Charles Koch, you know, these are the billionaire, you know, family that, you know, you, you might know from like at this point, like the Democrats kind of using as like a boogeyman from years ago about these two guys.
But there were two super rich guys.
They were kind of boogeyman.
And they, I think between the two of them, they were like up there with the richest political donors.
You know, they're, they're mega billionaires.
And Charles Koch, evidently, the way the story goes is that Charles Koch just really got taken by Murray Rothbard's ideas and was like, yo, this guy's a genius.
Like he's the most brilliant economist and historian and political theorist I've ever seen and wanted to start the this the Cato Institute to promote his work.
And so they started it in Washington, D.C.
And the Koch brothers, these are real serious billionaires.
So they're like, yo, we're going to make a difference.
Like we're not just like talking about ideas here.
We're going to like really affect policy.
And as that project got going, very quickly, they wanted to compromise on some of the views.
And, you know, they were kind of like, well, well, we can't go after central banking and we can't go after the warfare state because that's, you know, this is bad for business, but we could go after this and this and this.
And, you know, they had interests, let's just say, that aligned with some libertarian views, but others, it didn't.
And it was just bad for business.
And so they started wanting to compromise, essentially.
This is the long of it in a short form.
And Murray Rothbard was like, no, I'm not going to do that.
And, you know, and he, when he wrote about it, he said, it's he, I remember he wrote that it's a very strange thing when you tell a billionaire no.
They're not used to hearing no very often.
And so they had a falling out.
And ultimately, and I don't even think this is very much disputed, but the Koch brothers just stole it from him.
Like he had shares in the company and they just took it and wouldn't give it to him.
And they kicked him out and they tried very aggressively to ruin him.
And so the Mises Institute was started as kind of a like, okay, well, we just got kicked out of there, but we do want to keep these ideas alive and we do want to keep talking about the truth and what matters.
And so they start and they started it in Alabama.
It's still there to this day in Auburn, Alabama.
And I remember there was one time, I can't remember like if this was an interview or if you told me this personally or if I read it in an article, but there's no question that I definitely, Lou Rockwell, the guy who started the Institute with Murray Rothbard, he said at one point, he was asked, why did they put it in Austin?
And I'm just, excuse me, Auburn, Auburn is where it is.
I apologize.
Sorry.
Anyway, it's in Auburn.
So he asked, why did they put it in Auburn?
And he said, because we wanted it to be not in Washington, D.C.
And that was his answer.
It was just like, it had to not be in Washington, D.C.
And this was Auburn was the most not Washington, D.C. place we could find or that we got a deal on a place for.
So we went there.
And it's something I was thinking about a lot that I think there's something about like being in DC, just even being in the area that is inherently corrupting.
Because especially when you get to a level, if you're starting to like make noise, you're just the people around you are going to be people who work at the State Department and the CIA and the Defense Department or a weapons company or a lobbying firm or something.
Like the people you're going to dinner with, the people you're going to parties with, the people you're having over to your house.
So many of them are just in the swamp.
And it is, you know, it's that presents a unique challenge because it's hard to really go at the people when, you know, like one of the people is like Frank who was over at your house last night, you know, and in all of these organizations, whether it's the CIA or it's Lockheed Martin or it's the State Department or whatever, there are regular good people who work there.
And so if you're friends with some of those people, it just makes it a little bit harder to be go that hard at them.
And so one of the things that I was just thinking about when I saw this is it's like, oh yeah, Tucker just doesn't live in Washington, D.C. anymore.
So why does he really care?
Why should he?
And, you know, the fact is that he's in Maine and or, you know, Florida, depending on the time of year.
And he just doesn't have to deal with any of that.
And like, if you want to be angry at him for telling the truth on his podcast, like go ahead and be angry.
But he has reached this critical mass level where like he's made his money.
He's got his gigantic audience and he's outside of DC.
And there's really not been too much like that.
Like if you, when you watch corporate media, almost all of it is based out of DC.
Now, again, I don't want to say like there's a breaking points is based out of DC, I believe, and they're still doing a great job.
So I'm not saying you can't, but like almost all of it is based out of DC or New York or one of these connected areas.
And they have, they're tightly controlled.
It's a very controlled environment, as almost everybody who's being honest and has worked there admits.
And Tucker is in a unique situation because he's outside of Washington, D.C.
And Tucker's also in a very unique situation.
And this is something that I really covered a lot as it was happening because I thought this was a very relevant detail.
Tucker is probably in terms of media, probably the best example.
I guess you could debate maybe like Alex Jones or someone like that, but Tucker is a different thing where he was, he was in the old mainstream media and he was actually the most successful.
He was the number one show in cable news.
And he got fired, you know, which again, I think for sometimes people outside of like show business, I don't know how inside it I am, but I've been around enough people who are like, you know, have TV shows and make movies and stuff like that.
It is getting fired when you're the number one show, not just at your network, but in your industry.
You are the number one show in cable news.
That is rare.
Typically speaking, you hold a lot of the chips and people don't want to fire you, but for several, for several reasons, that wasn't the situation with Tucker and they were willing to get rid of him.
So they fire him as he's number one.
Now, It really is hard to overstate how powerful, how much the power dynamic has changed between, say, like, um, uh, what's it called?
Who's the company that owns, um, was it News Corp who owns Fox News?
Uh, or whatever, but the Murdochs.
How typically speaking, like, for the first half of my life, or maybe a little bit more than the first half of my life, and then for my parents' entire life and my grandparents' life, like just the way it had been for so long was that the Murdochs would have had all of the chips and Tucker Carlson would have had almost none of them.
Now, it is true that just being the number one show in itself, okay, you hold some chips, you're bringing viewers in, that's good for advertising.
But in this unique situation with Tucker Carlson, number one, it wasn't good for advertising because he was getting boycotted by woke leftists so much.
And then, you know, number two, he was upsetting power.
And so those were two of the major issues.
But the, but my point is that historically, like you could even think, say, there was a time when Walter Cronkite was like the most trusted name in news before any of us were born.
Sorry, I didn't mean to insult any older listeners we might have, but before most of the people who listen to this show and myself were born.
And he was somebody who he was America's newsman.
Like everybody just trusted Walter Cronkite.
But at the same time, at the time, if the network had fired Walter Cronkite and put some new guy in there, then that's just the new guy.
Now, it's possibly the case that they wouldn't have done quite the numbers that Walter Cronkite did.
And I mean, there were three networks.
So there was an option for them to go to one of these other, the viewers to go watch one of the other two networks.
But by and large, there's three networks.
Whoever the next guy went in there was going to go was going to be the guy.
And that was it.
And then Walter Cronkite was never to be heard from again.
I mean, if he wasn't going to get hired by one of the other two networks or one of the major newspapers, if he was in a situation like, say, Tucker Carlson, which again is like, if you just understand the way markets work, you got to think it's pretty interesting.
Was there any chance that MSNBC was going to try to hire Tucker Carlson or CNN was going to try to hire Tucker Carlson?
I mean, think about it.
The number one guy in the industry is a free agent now and no one else wants him.
It would be like, I don't know, like, I was going to use LeBron James.
I guess he's not the best player in the league anymore.
But like, if LeBron James got in a big fight with the owner of the Lakers and he was like, I don't want you playing for my team anymore.
We don't sit there and go, I guess LeBron James can't play basketball anymore.
We go, well, someone else is going to want him.
It's LeBron James.
I mean, you know, they may not be able to pay them as much as this guy, but someone's going to want him.
He's an incredibly good player.
That's kind of how a market typically works.
But in this very controlled market, it doesn't work like that.
So again, say Walter Cronkite wasn't going to get picked up by one of the, well, then that was it for him.
He could start a newsletter and put it in the U.S. postal service or something and maybe get a little network of a few hundred people, but that was it.
Most people just weren't going to hear from him again.
And this was not just something that was true back then.
This was true all the way up until from my perspective, like five minutes ago.
Like the number one show in cable news for many, many years was Bill O'Reilly.
Bill O'Reilly dominated that 8 p.m. hour over at Fox News.
He would always be lapping CNN and MSNBC, who's got huge, huge numbers.
It's the biggest thing in cable news.
And then Fox News fired him and then he went away.
I mean, he does a thing or two here or there.
I know he's like, I think he's doing a show like with Chris Cuomo or something like that.
And every now and then he'll be brought into something.
Now that the internet age has really blossomed and the kind of internet shows have come up, maybe you'll see him occasionally on something, but he got straight up removed.
Like there's a national conversation and it used to really matter what Bill what Bill O'Reilly's take on it would be.
And that's just simply not the case anymore.
This is just, there's never been like a news.
Like Tucker Carlson's take on Jeffrey Epstein just now was the news of the week.
There's just no example like that with Bill O'Reilly anymore.
They could remove him from the conversation.
And this is true in general with this was not that long ago, by the way.
I mean, to some of you, it might seem like it, but it was not that long ago that Bill O'Reilly was the number one show.
This was during the Obama years.
And of course, the George W. Bush years into the Obama years.
And there were then there was kind of this age of what became known as big tech censorship.
There was the age where, so up until about this time, in fact, up until Bill O'Reilly must have stayed on at Fox News through like 2016, something like that.
I think it was right around, he was definitely still there through the presidential election.
I think it was 2017 when he got fired, but you could double check me on that.
Why Platforms Didn't Ban Him00:15:33
But so up until this time, right around 2016, the internet back then had been kind of like the Wild, Wild West.
Now, you could say whatever you wanted to.
People weren't getting kicked off of Twitter and YouTube.
I mean, it may have happened occasionally, but it wasn't like a crazy thing.
It wasn't something you'd expect to happen.
And in fact, many of the people say like in the alt-right, which is what they were termed for a little period then.
But around that time, in like 2015, 2016, even going into 2017, maybe a little bit is when it really started picking up.
But in that time, the alt-right guys, and these were guys like Richard Spencer and Christopher Cantwell and a few others.
They would, first of all, they were given an enormous amount of media attention because they were attempting to paint Donald Trump supporters as these guys.
But they were all operating on the internet.
Like they had YouTube shows and Twitter pages and Facebook accounts.
In fact, I used to argue with Chris Cantwell on Facebook and Twitter.
And like there was just no thought that you're not allowed to do this or you're going to get kicked off of here for saying this.
These were people who were very openly advocating for an ethno-state, white nationalism.
And they were just doing it on the internet.
And then that all changed.
And it really all changed after Donald Trump won the election.
And essentially, when the narrative, the completely BS narrative became that the reason Donald Trump won is because Vladimir Putin overthrew our election and installed him.
It was essentially, there were several levels to the Russiagate frame job, but part of it was to explain away how bad the media and the establishment looked because Donald Trump had won when all of them have told you there was no way that could happen.
And the way they did it was, oh, it wasn't that, we didn't actually lose.
It was Vladimir Putin just stole the whole thing.
And how did he do that?
Well, he had bot farms and he had misinformation online.
And they literally the government, both publicly and behind the scenes, created the tech censorship dynamic.
And then this isn't, you know, we got a lot more information out of this when the Twitter files were released that there were all types of like communication between the government and the big tech higher ups.
There was money that was given to big tech platforms and there were individuals who were targeted.
Like the White House would be calling up and being like, hey, why is Alex Berenson still on Twitter?
Like all this stuff has been revealed.
But even at the time, publicly, they, some people might remember this, but they hauled all of the big tech execs before Congress and just threatened the hell out of all of them publicly.
Like they were like, what are you doing?
All this misinformation is on your platform.
You've allowed this, you've allowed that.
And they really created this kind of censorious environment.
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All right, let's get back into the show.
And look, if you just think about it again, like market forces, like in the same way, all other things being equal, if the number one show in cable news is available, probably some other people are going to want to get them.
All other things being equal, the big tech companies were not in the business of trying to kick you off their platform, especially to people who had big audiences.
The whole business model is to keep you on the platform.
They don't want to kick you up.
Like they're not incentivized by the market to kick someone off.
If you have a big following and you're on Twitter and you're saying provocative things that are making a lot of people respond to you, that's exactly what Twitter wants.
Their whole game is to keep you on this site as long as possible.
Like that's the business model.
So it's not as if they were directly incentivized, but when you get called in in front of Congress and they threaten to shut your whole company down if you don't kick people off, well, now you are kind of incentivized to do it.
And they did start doing it in crazy ways.
All those guys from the alt, they all got buried and canceled.
And there were lots of different people who would say like were very relevant.
And then they were able to kind of, like I said with Bill O'Reilly, just take you out of the conversation.
The example that I think of quite often was the Milo Yiannopoulos one, which was a really crazy cancellation because they really had nothing.
So he had Milo had done the Joe Rogan.
So this has been years, but I think I'm getting this right as I'm remembering it in my head.
But Milo was like on a tear and he had done the Joe Rogan experience and he had done like a bunch of big shows.
He was all over the place.
I mean, you couldn't like he was at all these major events and then he went on Bill Maher.
And then he just did great.
He had a great appearance on Bill Maher and just kind of dominated.
He had him arguing with some dummy and Milo was slapping him down.
And it was, and even Bill Maher was found him like charming and the audience was kind of laughing with him, even though he was supposed to be this big, bad right winger and like it was it.
And so what they did was they just canceled him.
Like that was the option.
And literally, it was a wild one because essentially it was so, it was so not a cancelable offense.
Not that I'm saying anyone should be canceled or censored or any of that, but he had, he had talked about, I guess, on the Joe Rogan experience and maybe like on one other interview too, but he had talked about like how in the gay community, it's, it's kind of common that underage gay teenagers have like some experiences with older gay guys and they kind of show you the ropes.
Now, I know it's the topic is a little bit disgusting, but you know, he's just tell and he was telling the story about how that was him.
Like he was by, he was the victim in the story, not the aggressor.
He was talking about how like, whatever, when he was 15, he started hooking up with like a 22 year old dude or something like that.
I don't remember the exact details.
And he was like, look, if I'm being honest, I don't look back at it as like, oh my God, I was the victim of this.
It's like, I look back at it like it was kind of a cool experience.
That's, that's what he said.
And then he said something like where he was like, don't get me wrong, like you have to have age of consent laws.
And they're right around where they should be, like around 18.
That seems about right to me.
So again, there was really nothing that he said that was like, oh my God, this is so horrible.
We have to kick this guy off for this.
And even by like the left wing point of view, you would be like, or the right wing point of view for that matter, you would be like, well, what he's telling you is that he was a victim of this.
And if you want to say, hey, it's fucked up that he's saying it wasn't that bad.
You'd still be like, well, this is a victim who's dealing with their own trauma or whatever.
Anyway, the point is that they had this option.
When he started bubbling up, they could freak out.
They create a freak out.
You know, they create a little environment.
It was very easy for him to do it back then.
They got Roseanne kicked off of her show because she made like a crack about Janet Yellen that was like not even that bad.
She said that she looked like the Muslim Brotherhood had a baby with the planet of the apes, which like, like Roseanne doesn't like me right now very much, but let me tell you something.
That's an excellent joke.
Have you ever seen Janet Yellow?
That is exactly what she looks like.
It could perfect, the perfect tweet.
But in the moment, they created like this frenzy.
Oh my God, that's so racist.
That's so horrible.
And then next thing you know, she's fired from her show.
She's kicked up.
You know, it's like they were, they got very good at this.
And this is what people called cancel culture.
A lot of these things, when you'd look back at it like a year later, you'd be like, how did they even make people that outraged over this?
Like it was Roseanne Barr making a joke.
She was making a joke about the woman's haircut.
Like, I don't know.
It's just anyway.
But they were able to create the situation and man, was it effective?
I mean, and it was scary.
It had a chilling effect on everybody because you were like, whoa, that could be you.
They could just drum up something, get all outraged, and then you're canceled.
And that's it.
And now instead of like having, you know, whatever, like these, these monster accounts, like, I don't remember exactly.
Milo had a huge Twitter following and had, you know, a big presence on all on YouTube and all this stuff.
And then all of a sudden you're on like cozy TV or whatever.
And that's it.
And people just don't go over there.
You know, it's just like, it just is what it is.
There were a few different versions of like the free speech platform.
Some of them got sabotaged.
Some of them just didn't pick up.
You know, YouTube always and still this advantage has this big advantage that still to this day, they still have this big advantage that they're just the most user-friendly platform.
And they're the ones where most people are.
And once you're there, you kind of get used to that and you don't want to switch.
It's like all of us.
Like, like, you know, people who have an Android don't want to get an iPhone because like, I'm just used to the Android and vice versa.
It's just people stay where they are.
Anyway, Milo got totally removed, at least for a while.
And I think he never really got back to where he was there.
He got removed from the conversation.
They were just, they were very good at doing this.
And there were lots of people over those years who just, you know, good luck, good luck being in my business, but you can't have a Twitter account or a YouTube page or an iTunes account, or you know what I mean?
Like, all right, you could kind of try, but you're never going to be getting the numbers or making the impact that you could if you have all those things.
And this was kind of the norm for a few years there, where, okay, so we lived in this world where still you could be canceled from like the corporate world.
And now, even if you were getting out there on the podcast world, you could, you could be canceled from there.
You kicked off all the platforms, or they could do the thing like Zuckerberg and I think Jack Dorsey used to say it too, where they'd go, you know, freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of reach.
So there'd be things like that, where like, I remember Stefan Molyneux, he had like a million subscribers on YouTube, a huge, huge YouTube channel.
And then around 2016, he just never got a new subscriber.
It had been like five years where he was still at the exact same million number.
And his, his, you know, some of his videos would get like 20,000 views or something like that.
And you just be sit there to be like, wait, what?
That doesn't seem to add up that much.
Like, how am I at that?
We just hit 350,000 subscribers and we're getting like hundreds of thousands of views on an episode.
Why is it that back then there's a guy with a million and he was all the way down to just like things weren't adding up.
And then there was all types of like shadow banning and what I guess that's what I'm describing here, shadow banning, where there were all types of accounts that just like they just never get new followers and their tweets would never be seen by anyone.
And somewhere along the line, all of this stopped working.
It just all stopped working.
And Tucker is really like the to me, he's the prime example because this is a guy who was the number one show in cable news, then got fired.
Then he got the old thing where now you're removed from the conversation, except something interesting happened with Tucker Carlson.
He got even bigger.
He is objectively by any metric bigger than he was at Fox News.
If you look at his numbers between Twitter and YouTube, I don't even know what other platforms he's on, but just between Twitter and YouTube, he's bigger than where he was at Fox News by a lot, by a lot.
So he is now not, he went from being the biggest thing in cable news to being attempted to be removed from the conversation.
And instead, he's bigger than the entire cable news thing.
He's still the biggest name in cable news, just not in cable news, even bigger than before.
And that is a really big new dynamic.
And this is true, not just with Tucker Carlson, but there's so many people now who it seems like Alex Jones, of course, is a good example.
He got kicked off of everything in coordination.
If you remember, it was like in a week or two week period.
He got kicked off of every single thing.
I kicked off of everywhere.
He couldn't, he was like on his own website, I think, and that's it for a while.
He couldn't go to, he got kicked off of iTunes, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter.
Everything dropped him all at once, like clearly in coordination.
And they said it was over the Sandy Hook thing, but it was years after the Sandy Hook thing.
It's like they, they just pulled up an old excuse and used that, much like with Milo.
They found an old excuse.
They were like, we got to cancel this guy.
And now you, Alex Jones is like, I think bigger than ever.
And there's other guys like, you know, and however you feel about any of these people, just there's guys like Andrew Tate.
There's guys like Nick Fuentes.
There's a lot of other guys like that who like, they're just trying to remove him from the conversation, but they cannot.
It doesn't work anymore.
And Tucker is the biggest of all of them.
And one of the things particularly that was interesting about the Tucker Carlson dynamic is that it's not just that he didn't get removed from the conversation because, like, say, his podcast is still huge, but he was still able to be the guy making all of the news.
I mean, immediately after being fired, he went and interviewed the former vice president Pence and ruined his presidential career.
If you remember, he was the one who started grilling him about why he cares about Ukraine more than he cares about America.
Totally tanked by not that he was going to win the presidency, but like it totally just, it was like, there's your political death right there.
And then he got the Vladimir Putin interview.
He's got the interview with the president of Iran.
He's doing things like this turning point event where he's still like the relevant conservative right-wing pundit.
Like he's still that guy.
It just totally has not worked at all.
And now you see, you know, obviously as I'm bringing you back to this, but you see this dynamic with someone like Daryl Cooper where everyone flipped out on him.
It's almost like they ran the playbook.
Like this is the playbook of how you get a guy canceled.
Governments Need Propaganda Now00:14:16
And you know what?
None of that matters because of Tucker Carlson and because of Joe Rogan.
Tucker Carlson and Joe Rogan both had him on and they both liked the guy and they both gave him a fair hearing.
And that is simply that.
You're not, you know, I should mention Joe Rogan a little bit here.
Obviously, he's another huge example of this where he had the most massive cancellation attempt on him.
Totally backfired.
He's bigger than ever.
And I will say as somebody, obviously, I'm not just like an outside observer speaking about this.
All these people involved are like close friends of mine, Tucker Daryl and Joe.
And there is a thing I'd say for me now, as I've mentioned, like say in the post-Douglas Murray, you know, fallout, where you'd go like, hey, man, I'm really lucky I got to this moment now rather than getting to this moment in 2017 because there'd be a real threat at that point.
But now, at least for the moment, it feels a little bit different.
It's like, I don't know, dude, Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson got my back.
So what are you going to do?
I mean, unless you can bully those guys into never having me on again, which I don't think you can.
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And so there's just something here where you kind of like, you can't overstate how big of a change this is.
Like, this is such a big deal.
It's no longer the media is no longer controlled.
Canceling people no longer works, at least for the moment.
It doesn't seem to be.
And now in this moment, we're seeing something that I just, I don't know.
I've never seen anything like this.
I've never seen anything like a moment where the president of the United States of America is, you know, I don't want to overstate it and say he's losing his base, but man, his base does not seem to be happy with him.
I mean, look, dude, from me, just the reaction.
I think there was some new polling in today that seems to back this up, but I didn't get a chance to dig into that before the show.
I'll have that for you for next episode.
But between the reaction at the crowd at turning point, the reaction in the aftermath, dude, go look if you haven't.
I usually don't live in YouTube comments, except for when I do debates.
Whenever I do debates, I do end up going in the comments and just kind of being like, how was this received?
And particularly with this one, with Charlie Kirk, you know, debating Josh Hammer on, and it's posted on Charlie Kirk's YouTube page.
Go look through those comments.
It's all in my favor.
I mean, I couldn't believe it.
I thought it was, I thought it would be more split, kind of like the audience live there was.
But it's like, things are changing, man.
Things are really changing.
And so anyway, the point I was making was just that this is, so you have this moment where Donald Trump, the sitting president, has his own base is like really not happy with what's going on.
And then the biggest guy in media who had his back is simply not going along with him when he says, you are to move on now.
You are to pretend this never happened and it was all a Democrat hoax.
We could get into some of what Trump has said most recently here.
But anyway, I would just say that between that, between seeing how upset, look, you can just read people, people are trying to cope, like the ones who are trying to defend Donald Trump on this.
They're trying to say, Twitter isn't real life and blah, blah, blah, all of this.
Why has Donald Trump had to make so many statements about it already?
He said, case closed.
That's done.
We're moving on.
And then the next day, he's posted on Truth Social and saying, why is everyone attacking Pam Bondi?
He had like three more posts about how we have to move on.
Now his latest attempt, we'll read this in a second.
It's just totally pathetic.
It's as pathetic as the storm bullshit that he was saying.
How are you going to ask me about this during a storm?
You know, so as Donald Trump, clearly you could tell this isn't working.
Obviously, they see that they're Donald Trump on Truth Social.
Now, I just see this reported on Twitter.
I've never been on Truth Social, but he's evidently had like three posts about this now where he's getting ratioed on Truth Social.
The people who I look, I'm just repeating what I've heard secondhand because I have not been on Truth Social, but I've never been.
But they say this has never happened before.
Donald Trump never, Donald Trump doesn't post on Truth Social and get ratioed.
That's not a thing, but he is getting it right now.
And in that moment, Tucker Carlson now, the guy who gave the keynote speech at the Republican National Convention for Donald Trump, is now doing a long form podcast, the first live episode of the Tucker Carlson show ever with Daryl Cooper, who's going to break down the real details about this Epstein thing.
Find me the comparison.
This is like, you know, Rachel Maddow going against Obama and totally exposing him when he's asking everyone to move on.
This is Bill O'Reilly exposing George W. Bush when he's asking everyone to move on.
Did anything like that ever happen?
No.
Because what could you count on those guys to do?
Run cover for him, no matter what it.
It doesn't matter if Barack Obama, the peace candidate who got a Nobel Peace Prize, and Rachel Maddow, the woman who wrote Drift and was calling the George W Bush government a bunch of war criminals.
It doesn't matter if Barack Obama then escalated the war in Afghanistan, sent 60 000 more troops into Afghanistan, continued the war in Iraq, launched a drone bomb campaign in in Pakistan and Yemen, overthrew the government in Libya, destroyed the country, sparked a civil war in Syria and backed the Saudis in a genocidal war in Yemen.
What would Rachel Maddow do on her show?
You could count on her to go.
The Republicans are racist, you know.
Just change the topic.
Even though you wrote a book on this, this was your topic.
Doesn't matter, we'll change it.
We'll talk about abortion.
Uh, we'll talk about.
You know, have the TEA party or a bunch of bigots or whatever the talking point of the day was back then.
You could always count on them to run cover for you.
Defend what you've, what you're doing, distract from what you're doing.
Now we're in an environment where that control has completely been lost, and that is a big deal.
Okay, and before i'll get into a little bit here of uh, Donald Trump's uh, Donald Trump's latest um, which is, you know, totally pathetic.
But the final thing i'll say here just on, like you know there might be, I i've seen some people who have have kind of had what I might consider like a little bit of a black pill take, where they'll say things, like you know, it doesn't even matter, the elites don't even care if they can convince us anymore, they're just gonna do it anyway and they use as evidence, look, Trump's covering up the Epstein thing doesn't matter that all this is happening,
but I think that is um short-sighted and I I think it's a shallow understanding of what's going on here.
I don't mean to be insulting to anyone who feels that way, but i'm just saying I think all i'm saying is like, think it through a little bit more.
Yes, it's true that they've lost the ability to control the narrative and they're not just going to give up power because they've lost that, they're going to keep trying to pursue power.
But that doesn't mean that this isn't a major, major problem for them, and I think it is.
You know, media is important, it's human beings are.
And look, you know, you know this stuff is important because otherwise, why would all governments rely so heavily on propaganda?
They all rely on propaganda campaigns.
Every government is well aware of the fact that they need to have massive propaganda campaigns to move the people.
That's why they all spend so much time and energy on it.
That's why they cared so much to be silencing people all these years.
That's why they that's why they always have to roll out these propaganda campaigns before they can do the policy they want to do, you know.
That's why they have to sit there with their slogans and their bullshit, whether it's he has weapons of mass destruction or it's, you know, 15 days to flatten the curve or whatever the hell it is they.
It's always a lie, But they got to tell you something before they roll out this policy.
So you get on board with it, at least tacitly.
You at least tacitly, you know, consent, not literally consent, but you know what I mean.
You accept it.
And the reason why they rely on propaganda, I think, is for a very basic, simple thing, right?
Which is that the government is always illegitimate.
It's always a criminal organization full of corrupt, you know, looters and killers.
And they're always, by their very nature, a relatively small group of people.
I mean, even the United States federal government that has millions of employees, it's the biggest government in the history of the world.
There's still 350 million people in the country, and they're a few million.
There's way more of us than there are of them.
And the truth is they don't really have any legitimacy to rule over the rest of us.
You know, we tell ourselves nice stories, but that's all just the propaganda back to, you know, like, what is the official story of why modern governments have the right to be governments?
Why they have the right to be, why are they legitimate at all?
Well, what do they tell you?
They'll say, their rights are derived from the people because that's what a democracy is, right?
So like we, but if you just think about that on its face, it falls apart.
Wait, the government does all types of shit that I don't have the right to do.
I don't have the right to tax my neighbor.
I don't have the right to launch wars of aggression.
I don't have the right to write regulations, to bail out banks, to counterfeit money.
I don't have the right to do any of that.
So if I and we, the people, don't have the right to do that, how the hell can government derive the right from us?
You know what I'm saying?
Like you can derive rights from someone else, but it has to be a right that they have.
So in other words, like I have the right to, I don't know, build an addition onto my house.
I mean, leave aside the fact that I might need a permit from my town, but just in theory here, I have the right to build, you know, an extension on my house.
Now, I could hire a contractor to do that, in which case the contractor essentially derives the right to do that from me because I'm the owner and I gave him permission.
I hired him to do this job.
I don't have the right to just go build an addition on my neighbor's house.
And if I were to say, like, no, it's okay.
I hired the contractor, you'd be like, no, he can't derive that right from you because you didn't have that right to begin with.
So how the hell does the government derive the right from us to do something that we didn't have the right to do to begin with?
Logically, it just falls apart.
And all the other more ancient justifications for government are all bullshit too.
Like the Pharaoh is actually God.
No, he's not.
He's a dude who's just lying to you and trying to convince you that he's God.
And so by the very nature of governments, they never have any legitimacy at all.
And so they always have to propagandize you.
It's really important that you believe the Pharaoh is God because otherwise you might wake up to this whole thing.
And the same is true with all governments.
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How Media Shapes Generations00:02:47
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All right, let's get back into the show.
And so they need this propaganda.
That's why they're so focused on it.
And this episode just shows you how much they've lost it.
And I would just say to people, you know, like, think about if you think about how different America is, even not even today, when I grew up compared to when my mother grew up, compared to, you know, when, you know, my grandfather wasn't from here, but my grandmother, my grandmother was.
So when my grandmother grew up, you think about the difference in time.
It's like my mother grew up on Leave It to Beaver and I grew up on South Park.
Like we are different people from different generations.
And a huge part of that is like what we were exposed to.
Look, I see this with my kids.
Human beings are mimetic creatures.
You know, the reason why media matters so much to us is because we kind of experience it like it's real life.
You go to a movie and you cry at the sad part.
You get thrilled at the exciting part.
Even though you know that's not happening right in front of you right now, you know these are actors.
You know these are grownups playing make-believe, but you kind of trick your brain because we're, we're not, we haven't been designed with technology in mind.
You know, we, we were, we're designed to like, if you see, you know, if you see a lion charging at you, you're supposed to react to that.
And so when you see it on a screen, even though on some level, you know, it's not real and it's not quite the same as it being real in front of you, but it still evokes some of that.
Like media is important.
What you see and what you don't see is important.
That's why all decent parents care about what their kids see.
I'm not sitting down and showing my six-year-old a horror movie because I know that will mess her up.
Like this will have a profound effect on her.
You don't sit down and show kids porn because you're like, that will mess them up.
Like it matters what you see.
It matters.
Like, okay, it's a little bit different in news media, but there's still, there's a principle there that is the same.
And so right now, we're about to live through something we've never lived through before, which is this new environment.
It's really in its infancy if you think about it.
Like the dynamic that I talked about with like all these canceled people who are now still more relevant, not removed from the conversation, elevated in the conversation by their cancellations.
This is a couple of years old.
Exposing Democratic Hoaxes00:07:59
That's it at most.
You know, like last year at this time, Joe Biden was the president of the United States of America.
And people were almost wondering, man, it's like the corporate legacy media is covering for him.
Everyone else is against him.
All this other media is exposing him.
Hey, I wonder what type of effect that'll have.
Well, it had a pretty strong effect.
Donald Trump won the popular vote after losing it the previous two elections.
He won his biggest victory by far.
All of the swing states and the popular vote.
Like, I think this isn't just online.
I think this is the country now or more, you know, it's largely becoming more of the country, to be more accurate.
But so we're going to see this tomorrow in this moment.
What I think has been not necessarily, it's debatable, but there have been other things that Donald Trump has done that I think should be equally big scandals.
I think, you know, I'm one of these kooky, you know, right-wing hippies who I, you know, I actually think dropping bombs on people is a really big deal.
I think that should be like a really big deal when your government does that.
And they should only do that when it's like the absolute last resort and absolutely necessary.
So let's say not when you're in the middle of ongoing negotiations.
But I think bombing around, bombing Yemen, exploding the debt, I think all these things should be up there.
But I don't get to pick.
The people get to pick.
And this is what is the biggest scandal so far of the Trump administration.
And in that moment, his number one guy is about to have the best goddamn guy to break this whole thing down.
This is, I don't know.
I just, this is something big.
I've lived through a lot of crazy shit, but this is something is a pretty big deal.
Anyway, let's, in the time we have left, let's hear what are you, I think I sent it to you, Natalie.
Let's, let's just first pull up the tweet that Donald or the truth social that he was getting ratioed on.
And let me read it here.
Okay.
Yes.
The radical left Democrats have hit pay dirt again, just like with the fake and fully discredited steel dossier, the lying 51 intelligence agents, the laptop from hell, which the Dem swore had come from Russia.
No, it came from Hunter Biden's bathroom.
And even the Russia-Russia-Russia scam itself, a totally fake and made up story used in order to hide crooked Hillary's big loss in the 2016 presidential election.
These scams and hoaxes are all the Democrats are good at.
It's all they have.
They are no good at governing, no good at policy, and no good at picking winning candidates.
Also, unlike Republicans, unlike Republicans, they stick together like glue.
Their new scam is what we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein hoax.
And my past supporters, very interesting line.
My past supporters have bought into this bullshit hook, line, and sinker.
Okay, you can take it.
It goes on and on like that.
First of all, I found it very interesting that he addressed his past supporters.
Now, if I'm being completely honest, I don't know who exactly he's thinking of there, but it is a little bit strange coming off this turning point USA week where like, I don't know.
I'm the only one I can think of who has been out there being like, I was a supporter.
I am no longer a supporter.
And not just that, but like I went from being a supporter to you're my worst enemy.
Now, to be fair to Ben Shapiro and Josh Hammer, I went from you're my worst enemy to a supporter to you're my worst enemy again.
Fine, whatever.
We've talked about this enough and we could get into it more.
I think I was right.
But it's a very strange move for any politician, even one who's in office and doesn't have to face reelection, to actually label you as their former supporters.
Like this is strange, especially for Donald Trump, who's usually pretty good at this, if nothing else.
It's so strange to almost be pushing them over to the enemy side.
Hey, you, this huge chunk of my base who are upset over this, I'm kind of vaguely labeling you as past supporters.
That is a weird reaction.
And I think this really validates, maybe doesn't validate exactly what we've been saying yet, but it certainly indicates that they're feeling the same thing that me and Robbie have been saying on the show.
Like they also think this is a problem where he's losing support over this.
But of course, this now, it seems like they've tried a few different angles on the Jeffrey Epstein thing.
Constantly contradicting themselves because they just don't know how to handle this because you know it's pretty obvious that they're covering up a giant intelligence operation that was a child rapist ring.
And that's a tough thing.
That's a tough thing to write a press release for, you know.
So, first, it's like, oh, we're going to get to the bottom of it.
Then it's like, oh, the documents are on my desk and I just gave all the documents to these influencers.
Then it was like, oh, I was tricked and those aren't actually the real documents, but there's tens of thousands of hours or thousands of hours they said.
So we got to go through all of it.
Then it's, oh, none of that ever existed.
There is no client list.
There is no thing.
This didn't happen.
We're buried.
He killed himself.
Nothing to see here.
Now the story is that it's actually a Democratic hoax, just like those other ones.
And man, do you have a big problem with that narrative?
You have such a big problem with the narrative because here's the thing.
And I don't think anyone's really well, there's been some other people who have covered it as well as me, but I've been up there with the people who have covered this really, really well for many years now.
The thing is that all those things Donald Trump mentioned were Democratic hoaxes.
A lot of them were Republican and Democratic hoaxes, intelligence agencies hoaxes, but no question.
I mean, look, they framed Donald Trump for treason.
The whole Russia Gate thing was all made up.
It was made up intentionally to sabotage his presidency.
And as I mentioned before, explain away his victory, but really more primarily to sabotage his relationship with Vladimir Putin.
Um, which, you know, you call a guy, you accuse a guy of being a Putin spy.
Well, now he can't really work with Vladimir Putin, can he?
Um, that was a complete hoax.
Obviously, the 51 intelligence agents saying that the you know, you could view it as a continuation of the Russia hoax, but saying that the Hunter Biden laptop was that you like, right, these are all Democratic hoaxes.
Jeffrey Epstein isn't that.
And here's one very easy difference between all of those things and Jeffrey Epstein, which again, no one's going to not see this because you, you people aren't as stupid as you guys think they are, you know, and we're kind of stupid, but we're not as stupid as you guys think we are.
And like, one thing that people will notice is like, okay, here's the thing about Democratic hoaxes.
If you turned on CNN or MSNBC, if you read the New York Times or the Washington Post, or you looked at NBC, ABC, CBS, the Associated Press, Reuters, if you looked at them through all of 2017, 2018, 2019, they were all talking about the Russiagate stuff: Russia, Russia, Russia, Trump, Russia, collusion.
This was the narrative that totally swept over.
When that debate happened at the end of 2020, all of them were talking about the 51 intelligence agencies, blah, blah, blah, all of them, this.
They went over it over, over.
They never stopped talking about it, pumped it out there.
They used the propaganda.
They buried the Jeffrey Epstein story.
None of them wanted to talk about it.
None of them were making any push.
If this was a Democratic hoax, then they would have released it when Joe Biden was president.
But it wasn't.
They were covering it up.
This is not a Democrat hoax.
None of the Democrats were trying to use Epstein as a political tool to hurt Republicans.
They Buried the Epstein Story00:01:10
When?
Show me the example of it.
This was never, there might be one random left-winger who points out that Trump was friends with Epstein, but that's the extent that they'd ever talk about it.
They're not getting into the blackmail operation.
I mean, maybe some of the anti-war leftists or something, but not the Democratic establishment, not the CIA.
You know, where you're telling me that the CIA and the FBI and the establishments of the Democrat and Republican Party are trying to convince you that Israel set up a blackmail operation on U.S. soil that involves raping girls as they fund their war.
Yeah, no, I don't think so.
I don't think that's happening.
And this is just, anyway, this is the spot we're in.
Donald Trump's got something that is impossible to sell, even for the greatest salesman.
He just can't sell this.
And it's about to get exposed bigly on tomorrow's episode with Tucker.
Okay, that's it for today.
I will catch you guys next time.
I will see you out in Cleveland.
We will not be doing the members only at the regular time, but me and Rob will get that out for you this weekend.