Dave Smith and Robbie the Fire Bernstein critique Hillary Clinton's "get over yourself" remark on Jimmy Fallon, labeling her the biggest political loser while discussing their podcast's move to Rumble due to copyright strikes. They analyze Ben Shapiro's refusal to debate Candace Owens without a moderator, arguing it reveals a desire to control the Overton window rather than engage in good faith. The conversation extends to NBC News' hiring practices and the Daily Wire's selective censorship of Israel-related questions, asserting that excluding dissenting voices like Owens creates a false equivalence with cancel culture while silencing necessary inquiries into conflict narratives. Ultimately, this selective filtering prevents truth exploration by overwhelming audiences with a single, curated perspective. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
|
Time
Text
Rumble, IPAs, and Live Shows00:06:32
Fill her up.
You are listening to the cast.
We need to roll back the state.
We spy on all of our own citizens.
Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
You're listening to part of the problem on the Gash Digital Network.
Here's your host, Dave Smith.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
I am Dave Smith, and back with us is Robbie the Fire Bernstein.
What's up, brother?
How are you?
Nice to be back.
Yes.
It's good to be off, too.
I like both those things.
Off, back.
Off makes you appreciate back.
Back makes you appreciate off.
You know what I mean?
It's the circle of life.
All right, look, I will, before we get into today's episode, we had a little bit of an issue.
According to the people over at WhoTube, we got a copyright strike or something like that.
I don't understand how this all works, but they won't let, as of right now, our last episode up.
It is available everywhere else.
You can go get it on Rumble on our channel over there.
Go check it out.
But I did a response to Coleman Hughes, who was on Joe Rogan's show, the Joe Rogan Experience.
And he went off on a whole thing about how Israel's justified in the war.
And I did a point-by-point response to that.
I know a lot of people were, I got tagged a lot in the video on Twitter before I did the response and after we recorded it.
So I know a lot of people wanted to hear that.
If you want to, go check us out over on Rumble.
I believe it's up everywhere else that our podcast is up, just not on YouTube as of right now.
Hopefully it will be up soon.
But, you know, might as well go subscribe to us on these other platforms, particularly Rumble, because you never know what's going to happen in the future.
And that might be where we need to all go meet back up at some point.
So anyway, if you want to hear that episode, go look for it there.
Other piece of business, me and Rob, we got a bunch of live shows coming up.
The next one, of course, is Portland, Oregon, April 12th, the Aladdin Theater, one night only.
Me and Robbie the Fire Bernstein, our first show in a theater that we've done together.
So very much looking forward to that one.
And then the following week, we will be out at the Funnybone in St. Louis, one of our favorite clubs, one of the best weekends we had last year.
So me and Rob are very much looking forward to going back there.
And then we got Tacoma, Spoken, New York Comedy Club in Stanford, Connecticut.
Then I will be speaking at the Libertarian Party National Convention May 25th in Washington, D.C.
And I believe I'm doing something May 26th as well.
And we're setting up a comedy show out there as well.
I believe it's going to be on the Thursday.
So we're going to do a comedy show and a live part of the problem podcast out there as well.
So that should be fun.
Atlantic City, Las Vegas.
I'll be back at the Comedy Mothership in Austin, Texas this summer.
And then Nashville Zane's the weekend after that.
A lot of fun stuff coming up.
Comicdavesmith.com for all of the tickets for me and Rob's shows.
And of course, RobbyTheFire.com for all of Rob's headlining stuff.
Run Your Mouth is Rob's other fantastic podcast.
Anything else you want to add into the plugs, Rob, or you want to jump into it?
Porch stores coming together.
You can still submit your porches at Rob'snewserMajimo.com.
Filling up the calendar.
Looking forward to being on the road.
Very nice.
I'm drinking a nice IPA, Rob.
Oh, the rest of it.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
It is a good one.
Rob was my, you were my IPA guru.
Is that right?
Is that the uh, I like it.
Makes me feel like it is.
I don't know.
I don't think you introduced me to IPAs, but I think maybe you did.
I don't even remember how it went down.
Uh, slob.
I was drinking shit beer and I started.
Well, I think I started like kind of getting into IPAs.
And then you were like the uh you were like my ninth grade friend when I was in the seventh grade.
And I was like, you know, I tried this IPA thing and you were like, dude, you got fucking.
And then you would always be like, oh, you got to try this one and try this one.
And then, yeah, Rob really got me into them.
They're delicious.
And I know, I know it makes me a bit of a libtard, but I do love a good IPA.
Liberals do a couple of things.
They do coffee well, sadly.
You see a Black Lives Matter sign, you're like, dude, let me tell you something.
And Rob, I'll take you there next time you're out here by me.
The coffee shop in my town, and you know what it's like out in my, where I live.
How did you describe it?
I think the first time you were here, you came up to my house and you went, when did you become a mob, Don?
It's just like, it's like, it's very like country and big houses and things like that.
It's a red town.
There's a few coffee shops.
The best coffee by far is this one spot.
And dude, it's all lesbians behind the bar.
And they had Fauci magnets and AOC magnets that they were selling.
Like they let you know right away.
This is where this is the side of the political aisle we're on.
But the coffee is so goddamn good that I go in there.
Even the first time we went in and I got a cup of coffee when we first moved here and my wife saw the magnets and she was like, we can't come back here.
This is too great.
And then the coffee was then I got in the car with my to-go coffee and started drinking the coffee and I was like, ah, shit.
Shit.
This is the best cup of coffee I've had in this town since we've lived here.
So yeah, listen, liberals do some things good.
Food, coffee, and beer.
And they figured out beer too.
The guy on my corner who has the best coffee in town, really sweet guy.
We're friends.
I kept my mouth shut all COVID.
I was like, he was like, oh, yeah, yeah.
Oh, would you believe these darn kids aren't getting the vaccines?
I can't believe it, good sir.
I'll take a cold brew.
Dude, it's so funny when you want something and you're just like, I go around with a couple extra needles myself just trying to catch them.
Ideologically Possessed Voters00:10:24
I know.
I know.
I'm right with you.
I'll have a large.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was just in Vermont.
They do baked goods well, but then just everything else is just wrong.
Oh, yeah.
What were you doing up there?
I went skiing for a day and then not the next day because my skis were broken and I got beat up real good.
Did you?
Is the Vermont skiing?
How does it compare to the Salt Lake City skiing?
If you storm chase, it's good.
So I got, there was like a massive storm the last two days.
So it was nothing but fresh powder.
But if you try and just plan a vacation on the East Coast, it's dicey.
Okay.
All right.
Good to know.
Good to know.
All right.
Look, let's get into the show.
Enough witty banter.
I know that's what that's not what you guys come for, but it's what you stay for.
All right.
Our lead story for today's show is features who I like to describe as the herpes of American politics.
Just won't go away.
No matter how much you're like, I'm sure I'm cured of this thing.
There's no way it's been years since I've had an outbreak.
And then you go, ah, there's Hillary Clinton.
There she is again.
Just won't go away.
No matter how much everybody, I'd have to guess on all sides wants her to, but she won't.
And she was back with Jimmy Fallon for say what you will about Jimmy Fallon, but he gives you a hard-hitting interview every time.
Here was Hill Dog on the tonight show the other day.
Let's play the clip.
We know that.
It is.
It is.
What do you say to voters who are upset that those are the two choices?
Get over yourself.
Those are the two choices.
Yeah, I love that.
And, you know, it's kind of like.
One is old and effective and compassionate, has a heart and really cares about people.
And one is old and has been charged with 91 felonies.
Yeah, okay.
I don't understand why this is even a hard choice, really.
I don't understand it.
But we have to go through the election and hopefully people will realize what's at stake because it's an existential question.
All right.
Well, let's isn't it great?
But by the way, I love the I don't understand comment used as an attack.
You see this a lot in political discourse.
People go, I don't even understand how you could feel this way, as if that's supposed to like be an attack against you.
But it's like, oh, that just sounds like an admission to me.
Yeah, you don't understand why this is a hard choice.
Okay, but it is for lots of people.
So, okay, I agree.
You don't understand what it is.
Imagine, though, just imagine who wants this.
Who is this good for?
Do you think anyone working on the Joe Biden reelection effort wants to have Hillary Clinton go out there and say, hey, what's your message to people who aren't happy with either candidate?
And she goes, my message is get over yourself.
Is that helpful for the Joe Biden reelection effort?
I don't think she's.
Get over yourself.
It doesn't seem like she's using that expression correctly.
Get over yourself is usually when you're not entitled to something.
Just in this case, so she's saying, yeah, both the candidates suck, but get over yourself.
You're not supposed to, we're not supposed to have good candidates.
Well, just, I mean, just imagine for almost everybody I know who is not ideologically possessed.
And I say that, I use that term specifically because I do think that me and you, Rob, certainly have very strong political views, but I do not think either of us are ideologically possessed.
I think that many left-wingers are ideologically possessed.
Many right-wingers are ideologically possessed.
Many libertarians are ideologically possessed.
This is not like this.
This transcends what your views are.
This is something that can happen to all people.
And I don't think we are.
And I try my best not to be.
I think that sometimes like I've seen this before when I've argued with other libertarians, like libertarians who support open borders, for example.
And I'll kind of break down.
And I mean this just in personal conversation, like where I'll break down.
So I'll go be like, but look, you know, this is going to be a disaster for everything you care about, like the prospects of liberty or prosperity or any of that.
You know, this will be a disaster.
And they go, yeah, but the non-aggression principle says I can't before.
And you're like, oh, you are possessed by this ideology now.
You're not actually grappling with the real world.
You're just kind of like married to your theory above all else.
So, okay, this happens to a lot of people.
This is not something that anybody knows people who are ideologically possessed, like your, your Democrat friend who you can't even have a conversation with, or your Republican friend who you can't even have a conversation with.
That happens quite a bit.
Everybody I know who's not ideologically possessed, which is the majority of people I know, would readily concede that it's insane that out of a country of 320 plus million people, running Trump versus Biden again is what we're left with.
Like almost everybody would go, that by definition means that the system is broken to some level, to some degree.
Because like, come on, there's just so many people who are better than these guys.
I know people who are better.
Almost everyone I know is better than these two guys.
And so for the question to be like, well, what about people who go, hey, we don't think that like, you know, and these are people who are like, hey, we don't really like Donald Trump.
It's not as if someone was asking Hillary Clinton, what do you think about these hardcore Trump supporters?
What's being asked of her is, what do you think about these guys who are like, yeah, yeah, we don't like Trump, but like we got to run this fucking senile clown who sniffs children, who has a horrible track record on everything.
We got to run him.
And she goes, my message is get over yourself.
One's an old guy who loves everyone and the other one's an old guy who's been strung up on all these charges.
You can just see where, by the way, Hillary Clinton is the, I mean, I think it's safe to say I'm almost like trying to run through history in my head here, but I think she's the biggest political loser of all time.
Like, I don't think there's anybody who's been set up in a better way and just completely failed than Hillary Clinton.
You know, just quickly to go over her political career.
She was the first lady of Arkansas when Bill Clinton was governor and she was the first lady, you know, the governor's wife.
And then he became president.
And so she was the first lady of the United States of America from 92 to 2000.
And then from there, she was gifted a Senate seat in New York.
Originally, she was going to run against Rudy Giuliani, which would have been a very tough race for her.
Rudy Giuliani had the advantage of being a New Yorker.
And he was at a very, you know, this was like hair dye falling down his face.
Yes.
This is a different Giuliani.
No, no, no.
This was post 9-11.
Rudy, I think it was after 9-11.
Yeah, it must have been.
Yankees were still winning.
Yes, Yankees were doing good.
Giuliani was the mayor hero and all of that.
And then I think either he got sick or he had a scandal or something, but he had to pull out.
And so she just like waltzed into this Senate seat.
She was in the Senate for a few years, had a horrible track record, a big supporter of the war in Iraq and, you know, just was terrible.
And then everybody in the Democratic Party basically, like, it was through this, at least through the second Bush term, she was just like the presumptive nominee.
It was hers.
She was the frontrunner from the very beginning, way before the race even started.
She was crushing it in the polls.
And then she had no competition.
She had, it was Edwards, Senator Edwards, who ended up turning out to be in an affair with his maid or something like that while his wife was dying, like this huge scandal that brought him down.
And then she had a junior senator named Barack Hussein Obama.
And all she had to do was beat that guy.
And she becomes the president.
Or she becomes the, she would have been the nominee to run against John McCain in 2008.
And she would have no question won the general election.
And she lost.
And then she comes back eight years later and is running a primary that is completely cleared out, except an 80-year-old socialist.
That's the only guy who was in the primary against her.
And she struggled.
She limped to the finish line.
She needed the DNC to cheat for her to beat that old socialist.
Sheath Underwear Sponsorship00:02:00
And the Jewiest Jew of all time.
And nobody historically likes Jews, especially not the Jewy ones.
I don't know if you've been on Twitter lately.
People don't like Jews.
It's a problem.
We're trying to do everything we can to fight against that.
All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is sheathunderwear.com, the underwear of legends.
And as one of those legends, I will tell you, you'll never find a more comfortable pair of boxer briefs in your life than Sheath Underwear.
Go check them out.
Get one pair.
That's my challenge to you.
The Dave Smith Sheath Challenge.
Buy one pair of Sheath Underwear, put them on and tell me they're not the most comfortable pair of boxer briefs you've ever owned.
Look, they've been sponsoring this show for over three years now.
I have the first pair of boxer briefs that they sent me, as well as dozens more.
And they're still as comfortable today as they were the day they sent them to me three years ago.
Go check them out.
They're a loyal sponsor of this show, a company run by great people, sheathunderwear.com.
Support this show and get the best pair of boxer briefs you will ever own in the process.
And if you use the promo code problem20, you'll get 20% off your next order.
Sheathunderwear.com, promo code problem20 for 20% off your next order.
All right, let's get back on the show.
So she struggles.
She needs, she requires cheating to get past Bernie Sanders in 2016.
And then in the general election, she's running against Donald Trump, who everybody agrees is the weakest candidate ever.
And then she loses to Donald Trump with the entire establishment, the DNC machine, the hundreds of millions of dollars that she outspent him, the entire corporate media all behind her.
She still loses and just humiliates herself.
Criminal Charges and Cancel Culture00:04:11
But now she's coming back.
This woman who, by the way, has her and her husband, their careers, just to be clear, this is going back to the 80s.
Their careers have been public servants, public servants, as they call them, and running a charity.
That's what she's done, right?
On the books, what she's done with her life is been a servant of the public, and she's run a charity.
And that has made her worth hundreds of millions of dollars because that's how the system works.
Okay.
But she's going to come back now as someone worth hundreds of millions of dollars and say, hey, all of you guys sitting around the kitchen table thinking about what you're going to be able to afford next year.
You know how you don't like both options?
Get over yourself.
Get over yourself and pick the one I want you to pick.
Isn't that just unbelievable?
God, she has got to be Trump's best surrogate.
If you were in Donald Trump's campaign, wouldn't you be like, please put her on TV every single day?
Dear God.
And then also play the exact card I was saying of how can you possibly go for someone who's such a big criminal that he's got all these lawsuits.
Just making your own news.
You've been calling this from the very beginning that almost, if nothing else, that's what these charges are about is that you go, it's the circular argument kind of.
It's like, well, I mean, it's been charged with all these things.
So what are you, you know, by the way, Hillary Clinton's someone who was had an investigation reopened right before she was, you know, about to face election.
And, but now all of a sudden, it's okay to just mention charges rather than convictions.
Why is it not okay to mention an investigation then?
Right.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Yeah, forget that.
It really is something.
It is.
I mean, yeah, you really did call that, Rob, that that would be the narrative that as soon as, and you understand too, where they go when, you know, if you look through the details of any of these charges, you know how they're like always the same thing, but it'll be like 90 counts of the same thing.
That's the game here.
Just get as many as you can, as many as you can, as many news stories, as many articles as you can, all with another charge, another charge, another charge.
It's like bury them with nothing, you know, and like that's, I've seen that happen a lot with people who they're not, not so much with like legal charges, but I've seen that happen a lot when people are attempting to cancel someone.
They'll kind of list off a bunch of things that are all nothing, you know, but as long as they feel like as long as there's a long list of them, then they can, they can get that.
In fact, I remember when we got protested out at, where was that?
I want to say Rochester.
Was that right?
It was Rochester.
It was Rochester.
Remember there was the pamphlet they were passing out or the sheet of paper that had the list of things, the list of our offenses or whatever.
And we went through it on the podcast.
But that's what they kind of try to do, like list all of these things.
And if you, you know, you, it's one thing to say, oh, he's under criminal indictment or something like that.
But it's another thing to say, he's facing 73 different accusations.
And then you, you almost, your monkey brain is trained to go, well, I mean, where there's smoke, there's fire, right?
Like there wouldn't be that many charges unless he was obviously guilty.
So that's what they got.
That's what they're going with.
I will say she seems young compared to Joe Biden.
Say what you will.
I'm trying to think of something nice to say about Hillary Clinton.
She has not lost nearly as much as he has.
Debating Candace Owens00:16:11
Like, I don't know.
All these guys are basically in the same age range.
I don't know exactly how old Hillary Clinton is.
Where is she in her 70s?
Something like that.
I don't know.
Brian, let me know how old Hillary Clinton is.
It's in her bad perfume years.
Yeah, it's definitely not what it used to be.
I don't know.
What is she?
75 or something like that.
But she's, she's, you know, her and Trump and Biden and Bill Clinton and all of them.
I mean, they're all like around the same age group.
And it is, look, there's a reason why Biden's the only one who people are concerned about his age.
Because he's the only one who seems to struggle to walk and speak.
I don't know.
Any other thoughts on this one, Rob?
I don't think so.
All right.
What was the other one we wanted to talk about?
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
So there's been, you know, we've covered this so much.
So I guess kind of got to keep covering it.
But Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens are perhaps going to debate.
I retweeted Candace the other day when she challenged him.
I thought it was an awesome move that she was just like, I'd like to debate Israel and anti-Semitism with Ben Shapiro.
My first thought was, that's hilarious.
It's a great, you know, people like pick on Candace sometimes and they'll say that she's, I've heard some people say, because I've been defending her lately.
And look, like full disclosure, I went and did her show and I like her.
I was, I was really impressed by her.
And, you know, this is the truth that obviously she's got a very big show and I'm appreciative to anyone who has me on her show or has me on their show.
But the truth is, I really was impressed by her.
Like I went in there and she had really done her homework and I thought she seemed really smart and genuine to me and kind of courageous.
And so, you know, look, that's my bias coming into this is that I like her.
But I've heard a lot of people since the show or so they're like, oh, she's just trolling or something like this.
And like, look, my impression of Candace, not that I know her super well, but we've, we've become friendly since I did her show.
And my impression is that she's very genuine.
Now, she also, she's where she's at because she knows what she's doing a bit.
And she's, you know, you don't get to have 5 million followers on Twitter without knowing how to generate interest.
And so she does like, there's no question she likes to like needle people a little bit, you know, and loves, likes to like create a big moment.
But I don't hold that against anyone.
I feel like, I don't know, all of us in this space are kind of trying to do that.
I wish I was a little better at that, to be honest.
But so I kind of immediately, I chuckled when I saw her tweet that because I was like, oh, well, you know, there's no way Ben Shapiro is going to agree to do this.
So that's great.
Cause now she gets to challenge him and then he looks like a bitch because he won't agree to do it.
I was surprised that Jeremy, the head of Daily Wire and Ben Shapiro actually both responded to her and were like, yeah, we're willing to do it.
But there was something a little bit weird where they were like, we're willing to do it.
It's got to be this Monday at five.
And she's like, well, I'm in London.
So I can't make it to the studio Monday and five.
And evidently the thing was she was going to London for a thing that she was doing for her show at the Daily Wire.
And they had planned to send a bunch of Daily Wire staff out there with her.
And then when they didn't renew her contract or they fired her or whatever it was, she still, she went out and is still doing it with, I guess, whatever people, maybe some people went with her.
Some people stay at the Daily Wire.
I don't know.
But she was saying to them, she was like, she responded at one point.
She's like, you know, I'm in London right now.
So you know I can't be in there in two days.
But like, okay, let's set up the debate.
And there is something kind of funny about that where, look, all I'll say is that, because Jeremy and I think Ben Shapiro may also have said that they were like, we had no idea you were in London.
And I'll just say, I knew she was in London.
So I'm pretty sure they knew.
You know what I mean?
Anyway, one of the tweets that Ben Shapiro sent, I couldn't find this.
I don't know if he deleted this or not.
But Ben Shapiro, by the way, okay, this is another point.
Rob, you were at one point, you grew up in a religious Jewish household.
So maybe you can understand this better than me.
But this was all going down on Friday.
And Ben Shapiro has to sign off and not tweet for, you know, Shabbat.
And I was thinking to myself, I go, there is no better test of like your piety than that.
Like, imagine being in like the hugest Twitter storm with people with millions and millions of followers and you're being called out.
And then like right in the middle of it, you got to go, ah, shit.
I got to put this down and not look at it.
Like if I'll just say this, if Ben Shapiro, honestly, I know he can't tweet because that would give the whole game away, but if he honestly never like did one of those throughout that whole period, then I go, I, I wouldn't question his belief in God.
That's all I'm saying.
Okay.
And he's probably got some goy coming in, bringing him like the tweets on printed pieces of paper.
What do they call Shabbatoy?
What is it?
Yeah.
He's probably got a courier who literally brings him printed tweets and gives him the news.
Print it out for me.
Read it aloud.
I can't look at it myself.
Okay.
So he said, Candace, I can see why you'd want to.
Oh, so, okay, sorry.
This is a response to Candace Own's tweeted.
I'm sure you can appreciate why I would prefer to keep this off of the Daily Wire platform, as well as the true reason why we were never able to make any discussion happen.
So there's an allude.
She alludes to what happened in the past when maybe they would have talked this out.
She said, let's choose a neutral, trustworthy platform.
I vote Patrick Bet David.
Now, again, full disclosure, I also love Patrick Bet David.
He's my guy.
I've been on his show a couple times and I just, I think he's great.
Love his team down there at Value Utainment.
I thought that was a great, I thought that'd be a great moderator for the debate, to be honest.
I thought Patrick Bet David, if anybody is not familiar with him, I assume most of you are.
He is, I would say, nothing but a pro.
Like if he was moderating a debate, he's not somebody who's going to be, you know, unfair in moderating in moderating the debate.
One of the things I love about Patrick Bet David, which makes doing his show so much fun, is that he is typically kind of like a grilling interviewer, but not in like in the best sense of the term.
Like he doesn't grill you in the sense of like, oh, I'm trying to get silly gotcha moments.
He tries to find whatever the weak part in your argument is and then ask you the toughest question about what that weakness in your argument is.
And even if he agrees with you, he'll still kind of do that.
And I like that about him.
I think that's kind of like a fun challenge, you know?
And so I, I, I just think, and I also think it's a good interview style that ends up kind of getting like the best out of your guest.
Anyway, I think he would be a great moderator for this, but here was Ben Shapiro's response.
Sorry, go ahead.
Patrick David is great and he's good at forcing you to clarify your position.
And I think that he could do a great job moderating it.
I think it would make for great TV.
I totally understand why both sides could potentially agree to that just because it would be a big spectacle.
And I understand why Candace would put it up as a first pick.
He's also, he's not exactly neutral in that he does have a competing or he's growing a competing network.
So it's not in Ben Shapiro's financial interest to platform something this large over there for one.
And for two, he would definitely be leaning more Candace than Ben.
Not to say that he couldn't.
I don't know about that.
The first point is well noted.
Yes.
That is true that he's in competition in a sense with Daily Wire.
But at the same point, if you're talking about a Candace Owens-Ben Shapiro debate, almost any moderator you could get is going to be in that sense competing in this space, right?
So like, you know what I mean?
Like, I don't know who else they're going to get.
I guess they could get some unknown person, but almost anyone on that level that would grant them a platform worthy of this debate would be guilty of that.
I'm not sure about that.
You know, I'm trying to remember.
I watched the PBD podcast where they did one thing on the history of Israel-Palestine at the beginning of the war.
And I'm not so sure where Patrick Bett David stands on this.
Like, I don't think he's, I could be wrong about this and people will dunk on me online if I am.
And maybe I deserve that.
But I don't think he's like a harsh critic of Israel.
You know, he's his bias.
And I've, I've talked to him a little bit about this in the past on maybe on his podcast or after his podcast.
I can't remember.
Private conversations and podcasts all bleed together for me because they're all just talking to somebody.
So I don't remember what happened.
This might have been on air, but he's, you know, he was a Christian Iranian.
That was his background.
He grew up in Iran and under, he grew up as, and ultimately became a refugee of the 1980 Iraq-Iran war, which is a brutal war.
There's something like 500,000 people on each side died.
It was a horrible war.
And I think I, you know, so my point is that I think his bias, if anything, is actually against kind of like fundamentalist radical Islamists.
Like he doesn't like that those guys took over his country and then they got in this war and then him and his family had to flee.
I tried to, you know, let him know that America was funding both sides of those of that war and actually was, you know, supporting Saddam Hussein while he used his most brutal chemical attacks against the Iranian people.
Anyway, but fair enough, if that's not your, the moderator you choose, I think it would be reasonable for Ben Shapiro to say, no, I prefer this moderator or something.
That'd be fine.
But that's not what he said.
Ben Shapiro responded by saying, Candace, I can see why you'd want to hide behind a moderator, particularly one who said we should rename our company the Daily Jewish Wire just yesterday.
All right.
Full disclosure, I'm not aware of that comment, but Pat, you nailed it.
Okay.
And then he says, no, one-on-one, Monday at five, we can sit down and have a healthy debate like adults and will live stream it on X and YouTube.
Take it or leave it.
As to the quote, true reasons you didn't respond to my offer to sit down with you and discuss these issues publicly or privately back in February.
I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
That is tough talk right before Shabbat.
Am I right, Rob?
That's a tough last tweet.
He's like, listen, I got to go to sleep with the lights on if this guy doesn't come in here tonight.
So I'm pissed off.
Okay.
This to me, I don't know exactly how to take this.
I'll take it one of two ways.
First off, I'm surprised, I will fully admit, I'm surprised that Ben Shapiro is even flirting with doing this.
I thought he just would refuse to do it.
But, you know, I think perhaps this thing with Candace Owens has been a big enough spectacle and he has certain advantages going into the debate that maybe he would be like, look, this is the debate I have to do.
And he's got a team of people around him.
You know, the Daily Wire is a huge multi, multi-million dollar organization.
You know, enough of a organization that, you know, whatever.
What was it with Steven Crowder where they were offering him $100 million or something like that?
And then Stephen Crowder kind of complained because he was like, well, they're offering me $100 million, but I have to pay for all my own production and my staff and all of this.
So it's not really $100 million.
But I'm just saying they're an organization on that level that can, you know, if there's a big free agent, they could throw $100 million at you.
You know, it's a big, so he's got a lot of people around him.
And I wouldn't be surprised if there's some people around him who are going, look, man, like you don't want to debate some of these other people.
You've never really debated anyone serious about the Israel-Palestine conflict before, and you've publicly said you will.
So look, here's your opportunity.
You can debate Candace Owens, who look, when I say he has some advantages, the advantage he has is that Candace very recently woke up to the nature of war and the nature of the Israeli occupation and the nature of the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.
This is still, I think, fairly, maybe I'm wrong, but I think fairly new to her.
Whereas Ben Shapiro has been studying this his whole life.
He knows every goddamn Israeli propaganda talking point about every goddamn year.
I mean, you name the year and he can explain away why it was okay what Israel was doing.
Now, the advantage that Candace has is that she's, I would say, has the truth on her side.
But that still gives him a fighting shot.
And so you could kind of understand where maybe he was like, okay, this is the one and I'll do it.
But I will say, rather than coming back with a moderator of your choice and instead saying, oh, you just want to hide behind a moderator is such a bullshit cop out.
Like that is, that's insane.
That's insane that the idea, the reason why you want a moderator is because a moderator, the benefit of having, and look, I've done many debates without a moderator and many debates with a moderator.
I would never dream of saying, and I've had this happen several times, where someone who either challenged me to a debate and I accept it, or I challenge them to a debate and they go, well, you know, I want to have a moderator.
And I go, yeah, okay, I get that.
I would never say, oh, you're trying to hide behind a moderator.
You're like, no, let's pick a moderator that we can both agree on.
Because the idea of having a moderator, it's like, look, you can have a debate one-on-one with no moderator if you both have some degree of trust in each other.
Like you both go, hey, look, we'll be fair.
We're trying to figure out what's true and we'll both present our arguments.
The Need for a Moderator00:03:58
And Essentially, the reason you want a moderator in the debate is because you don't trust that the other person's being fair.
And you want someone there to be like, okay, I'm going to at least make sure that there's we're relatively close on having even time with each other.
And that if someone's asking a question and you refuse to answer it, I'll be like, hey, wait, wait, wait.
You got to answer their question first.
Or if someone's doing some bullshit tactic, the moderator can be neutral and go, hey, come on, wait, wait, wait.
That's not fair.
That's, you know what I mean?
So the idea of wanting a moderator, and she also didn't say the moderator has to be Patrick Bett David.
She said, that's my vote.
She goes, I vote Patrick Bett David.
He could have easily come back with someone else.
I just think it's, it's, it lets you know that actually Ben Shapiro is concerned about a moderator who's not in the tank for him.
Because what he wants to do is try to just like go on and on and on and then try to pin her down and then try to not answer her questions when she asks them and then try to, you know what I mean?
Like kind of play these debate games.
That's at least that's my takeaway from it.
I don't know.
What do you think, Rob?
Oh, I think you're 100% right.
He doesn't want it.
First, he wants it on his platform because it's money, which, okay, I can understand that.
Or, but yeah, I think he clearly, if there's no moderator, that also means that you can steamroll it and blow it up, try and get the other person to just storm out of the room.
You cannot give them an opportunity to even speak.
You can reframe it so that they can't even state what their actual position is.
You know what I mean?
At least if there's a moderator, you both get that first talking point of, here's my argument.
And then you get to kind of go from there.
Whereas if you just have to go on somebody else's show, I mean, you can basically just be forced to sit there and listen to them and try and make a talking point.
You know what I mean?
It's just, it's not that that that does not seem like the uh the best format for trying to duke it out.
You know, there, I'll tell you, there's been, I'm of two minds on this because I have had, um, like I've done debates where there is a moderator and it's very structured.
And there's advantages to that, but there's also disadvantages to it, you know, and like there are also advantages to where you can just go back and forth with somebody.
And like, let me ask you a question.
Let's, let's go back and forth.
But that back and forth only works if both people are kind of coming at it in good faith.
If they're not, then you almost need a moderator to be like, okay, let me, you know, like, let's structure this a little bit.
And that's not to say that the debate has to be, um, I don't know.
It doesn't have to be like a, like so rigidly structured where it's like 10 minutes for opening statement, 10 minutes for opening statement, five minutes for rebuttal, five minutes for rebuttal.
There is advantages to having that type of structured debate, but there's also advantages to having much more of a free form like kind of thing.
But when it's as contentious as it is between Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens right now, you kind of feel like there has to be a moderator in there.
And even if the moderator is not perfectly neutral, as none of us are, you would think at least they'd have to be like pretending to be neutral, which isn't that tough, I don't think for anybody with a little bit of integrity.
I don't know.
I remember I moderated a debate one time on the podcast on this podcast years ago between Ben Burgess and Gene Epstein.
Moderating Ben Burgess and Gene Epstein00:02:44
Right.
Yeah.
And which I, it was the only time I've ever done an episode of this show where I was the moderator and they debated.
And the truth is I don't really like being a moderator.
And that's not really what this show is about, but they wanted to do it.
And I was like, hey, you know what?
This would be fun to do.
They debated again, I think, at the Soho Forum after that.
But I, when I was moderating the debate, I was harder on Gene than I was on Ben.
And I kind of went out of my way to make sure I would do that because I'm like, well, my role is to be the moderator here.
And obviously my bias is that I 100% agree with Gene Epstein on everything he's saying.
And I disagree with Ben Burgess on everything he's saying.
So the only way to overcompensate for that is for me to make sure I'm like, I, you know what I mean?
Like, I don't know.
I thought I did an all right job at that, but I certainly wouldn't go if I'm going to, which I don't like doing and I probably won't ever do again, but if I'm going to like take the role of moderator, then I'm going to make sure I'm not, I'm accounting for my bias.
Lots of people could do this.
There's so many people out there who would do this.
All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Phoenix Ammunition, the premier supplier to the militia industrial complex with 100% of their sales going directly to American citizens.
No military contracts, no law enforcement deals, simply the highest quality American-made ammunition served directly to the people the Second Amendment was written for.
Phoenix Ammo uses the highest quality component parts and the most advanced quality control system in the country to deliver exactly what you expect while at the range or when your life is on the line and performance matters above all else.
Phoenix Ammunition is the trusted supplier for top-level competitive shooters, world-class training companies, including Haley Strategic Training, Warrior Poet Society, and recreational shooters nationwide.
They ship direct to you with no middleman or distributor.
Just the best quality ammo made by the American worker in Detroit, Michigan.
Head to phoenixammo.com, subscribe to their propaganda newsletter, and follow them on Twitter at Phoenix Ammunition for the latest in product updates, high quality trolling, small L libertarian commentary, and world-class meme warfare.
Also, save up to 25% all day, every day with their automatic volume-based discounts.
Come for the ammo, stay for the memes, phoenixammo.com at phoenixammunition on Twitter.
Overton Window and Free Speech00:16:13
All right, let's get back into the show.
Anyway, this has been going on now for weeks and weeks.
We've been covering it, but there was also one video.
I guess Ben Shapiro a few days ago went on Dave Rubin's show.
I know Dave Rubin.
I've met him at a couple of different events and always liked the guy.
He was always nothing but nice to me.
I don't know how he'd feel about me after all this Israel stuff because I know he said he can't be friends with Candace Owens anymore.
And I think they were actually friends.
Me and him were never like actually friends or anything like that.
We just met a few times.
But anyway, I'd be happy to have him on the podcast too.
But anyway, this was a quote that was, or this was a clip, I should say, that went super viral between Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin about the whole Candace Owens thing.
Let's play that and discuss a little bit.
All right.
So let's do the elephant in the room for just a moment because I saw you this week on Piers Morgan.
He asked you repeatedly about Candace.
You repeatedly basically said, I won't talk about that.
I don't want to talk about that.
Yeah, and that's fine.
And, you know, it's interesting because we all sort of came up together to different extents and we've all done a million things together and public events and networks and all of those things.
It seems to me that at this moment, she's now a free agent.
She happened to end up on Locals, which I created.
And we're a platform, not a publisher that you guys are.
Can you at least talk to just sort of just sort of where it's at now?
She's not with you.
She's free.
She's free to do whatever she wants to do to be wherever she wants to be.
The difference between a publisher like the Daily Wire and a platform like Locals is obviously that a platform should have a very broad range of speech that it allows, including speech that maybe even the creators don't believe is inside what they would consider to be the Overton window.
That's a very different thing than direct subsidization of particular opinions.
So the Daily Wire would not have a host, would not pay a host who was staunchly pro-abortion.
They have no obligation to pay a host who is staunchly pro-abortion.
And so when it comes to the hosts on the Daily Wire, obviously everyone is able to say what they want.
Nobody ever comes to me and says you can't say X. Nobody ever says that to Walsh.
No one ever said that to Candace.
But the reality is that there is an Overton window at the Daily Wire.
Obviously, there was a non-meeting of the minds.
That's pretty much all I can say on this.
And, you know, a lot of this has happened publicly.
But to the extent that the Daily Wire is in fact not a publisher, that is in fact on a platform.
It is a publisher.
That means that there is no moral obligation for the Daily Wire.
And there's no free speech problem with the Daily Wire saying, we don't wish to pay a particular host or that host, saying, I don't wish to work here anymore.
Because again, there's a parting of the ways that I'm that, you know, is not really open for discussion at this point.
Does it surprise you that so many people, even on our side of this, are confused about that as it relates to free speech and quote unquote cancel culture?
Like severing a business tie, as long as you're not throwing someone in jail, they're able to be everywhere else is not.
I'm not surprised at the controversy, honestly, because to a certain extent, I think that there's been a reaction on the right to the excesses of the left.
So because what the left did is they said that the Overton window ought to be closed so tight that no one can get inside the Overton window.
Basically, if it's the right of Hillary Clinton, you can't be allowed inside the Overton world.
Yes, exactly.
And not just with regard to platforms, but with regard to publishers.
So for example, this week, NBC News deciding that Rana McDaniel was too much for them.
Ronna McDaniel can't work at NBC News.
The sacred halls of NBC News must not be sullied by the former head of the RNC, Jen Sake, however, can have a show on MSNBC, despite being the press secretary for the White House five seconds ago.
The right's response to that is, I think, correct to say you guys have shut the Overton window too tight.
But I think some elements of the right have basically said there is no Overton window.
The Overton window should be completely exploded with regard, not just to platforms, with which I kind of agree, but with regard to publishers.
So NBC News not only has an obligation to hire Rana McDaniel, NBC News has the obligation to hire Alex Jones, for example.
Right.
That makes no sense at a business level beyond free speech.
I mean, there's a reason that networks exist.
They have editorial positions.
Daily Wire has a very strong editorial position on a wide variety of issues.
And by the way, I should say that there are a lot of people who are suggesting this is about disagreements over Israel.
I mean, I can safely say it is not about disagreements over Israel to the extent that without reference to Candace at all here, Matt Walsh has taken the position that America ought not be involved in the Middle East at all.
Matt Walsh's position, so far as I understand it, and I've talked to him about it, is that Israel in a conflict between Israel and Hamas, Israel is obviously a more moral party than the genocidal terrorist group Hamas, but also it's very far away.
He doesn't care and it doesn't involve America.
That's just a pure isolationist position.
I disagree with it.
I think it's wrong.
I think that it's short-sighted.
But again, he's on our platform.
That is well within the range of acceptable discourse at the Daily Wire.
So the notion that you have to mirror my exact perspectives on what Israel is doing in Gaza is obviously not true based on the roster of hosts that we currently have.
There are a lot of other factors, obviously, at play.
Right.
So actually, that's enough.
I will say, Rob, I have a, I don't think I've ever heard the term Overton window used in this way before.
Like I've, I've heard a lot of people saying we're trying to push the Overton window.
I've never heard anyone just like adamantly defending the Overton window.
It's it's it's interesting to hear him go.
This is what Tom Woods always, if you ever listen to the Tom Woods show, which all of you should, it's like the best podcast on the internet.
But he his phrase or his tagline is burning the three by five index card of allowable opinion.
And his whole point was that, you know, there's like this little index card of opinions that you're allowed to hold, but there's actually all this world out here way beyond it that you should engage with.
And it's funny to hear Ben Shapiro go like, no, look, there's this index card of allowable opinion.
And it stretches from Israel's right about everything to maybe we shouldn't fund them being right about everything.
But you're just not allowed to criticize them.
And if you do, you'll get fired.
But that's not cancel culture.
That's just, you know, you have a different political opinion than me and you're not, you're going to get fired over it.
I don't know.
What do you, what do you think about this?
Well, I think he's quite honestly telling you that part of what they do is editorial content.
And since they're putting forward editorial content, they don't want to platform anyone that even questions if what Israel's doing to civilians in Gaza is inhumane because they don't want people to even, they don't want to even platform that question because it expands the overton window of what you might consider of the Israel-Palestine conflict.
So where I agree with him is, I mean, for example, I mean, Gas Digital, it's more of a, you kind of make what you bring in by way of advertisers here, but let's just say that Gas Digital had massive salaries for every show.
And then you had some show that decided to go decided to go extreme white nationalist and was actually talking pro, you know, real Nazi talk, like real Nazi shit and real racist shit.
I would understand the network going, we don't want to pay for this to be on our network.
And I don't, I wouldn't have a problem with that.
You know, like that doesn't, you're allowed to make that decision.
Same as the Daily Wire can make the decision of, hey, we're actually paying for this content.
And so there's some views that we don't even want to platform because we don't want to be putting it out there.
It's not, he's right.
That's not exactly censorship.
But when you take something like Candace Owens and asking the kind of questions that she was and saying, we don't even want to platform these questions, you're really just showcasing your cards of what you exist to do.
And in your case, it's in part Israel propaganda that question, you know what I mean?
It's no different than if I was on CNN during COVID and I started just asking, wait a second, does this part of the vaccine protocol?
The kids not being in school, does that make sense?
And they fired me because like, you can't even be asking these questions.
These questions are saving lives.
And then everything turns out to be right down the line.
You're closer to the censorship category then.
When you start being in the place of that, even asking questions and exploring truth, it's more censorship than it is people going, hey, I'm a Nazi now and we got to start working towards getting Jews out of the country.
That's something there's a difference.
Yes, I agree.
So I think you're absolutely right.
And I think that if you want to say, hey, look, my platform believes in X.
And if you're promoting Y, you can't work here.
All right.
If you want to get into what exactly the definition of cancel culture is, well, look, this has always been a little bit of a problem with the definition of cancel culture.
Like, yeah, look, obviously there's a difference between Dave Rubin doesn't exactly say it right, but there's a difference between the First Amendment.
He says free speech, but really the ways there's the First Amendment that says you have a right to say whatever you want to, or that Congress shall write no law to say you can't say whatever you want to.
And someone's saying, hey, I have to let you say that in my living room.
You know, there's a difference between those two things.
But at the same time, if you're a publication like the Daily Wire and your whole thing has been that like, hey, we hate the cancel culture of the left and the pro-censorship and all of this.
And let's leave out for the sake of argument, let's leave out the involvement of government in, say, like, you know, the Twitter files or stuff like that that we know about now, because the Daily Wire was talking about this way before that.
They were talking about like, oh, you know, when they were talking about cancel culture, they were talking about it way before we knew anything about the Fed's involvement in Twitter.
They were talking about like where people would get, you know, not allowed to speak at college campuses or something like that.
And none of them were ever saying, well, the college campus has the right to have an Overton window, you know, and like, again, I don't exactly what Ben Shapiro is saying about MSNBC.
Well, Ronna McDaniels, why is she not outside the Overton window?
I don't know.
They decided that denying the election is the Overton window.
So they have a right then, I guess, by your, and that, and that's not cancel culture.
Just to be clear, if what Ben Shapiro is saying is true, then anyone, and not just a news organization, but let's just say you were pro-life and you got fired from your job at a dentist's office.
That's not cancel culture.
They're just saying that's outside the Overton window.
My Overton window is wherever.
And if you're pro-life, you're outside of my Overton window.
We have a right to establish our own Overton window.
And that's that.
So, but whatever, the point is, let's just be clear.
So what are you saying your Overton window is?
The Overton window stretches all the way to Matt Walsh saying America shouldn't be involved.
But any more than that is outside the Overton window of the Daily Wire.
If you dare criticize Israel, that's outside the Overton window.
Like if you don't just say, maybe we shouldn't fund what Israel's doing, but you go and say, I think it's wrong what Israel's doing, then you're outside the Overton window.
Okay, I am a libertarian.
I believe you should be allowed to do whatever you want to do with your business, but I also think other people should be allowed to accurately assess what you're doing with your business.
So all I'm saying is that, all right, fine.
But your Overton window is that you're not allowed to criticize Israel.
Fine.
But let's be honest about what your organization is then.
And I know he got very offended at the tweet.
I said, I don't know what actually, what Pat said about him, but he got very offended in that tweet we read earlier about Patrick Bet David said we should rename ourselves the daily Jewish wire or whatever.
But okay, but you're saying your Overton window is criticizing Israel.
That's what you're not allowed to do.
So, all right, fine.
But then that's that's a then okay, but then they're also allowed to describe you in the way that you're defining yourself.
All right, fine.
It's outside the Overton window to criticize Israel.
All right, that's your Overton window.
But it's well within my Overton window to point out that you are someone who made your career off opposing identity politics and opposing cancel culture.
And you're involved in both.
You're involved in both of those things.
What really matters to you at the end of the day is your identity and the politics that follow from that.
And what really matters to you is canceling anyone outside your Overton window.
I think that's reasonable.
I think it's what we said on the last one.
You're showcasing you're not interested in exploring truth.
Unless you can kind of come forward and tell me exactly what she said that was outside of what you feel you're comfortable platforming.
It seems like she was asking questions about what the nature of this conflict is and was exploring truth.
And you're not interested in platforming that.
You don't want to explore truth because part of what you guys do is pro-Israel propaganda and probably pro-war propaganda, just generally speaking.
I mean, I don't watch the shows regularly, but I've certainly seen, I think, him supporting Ukraine war, if I'm not mistaken.
Yep.
So that's, you know, that's what you're doing.
So, and by the way, that's because you don't want truth.
Sometimes you got to overwhelm people with the same perspective because if you got another show host who's asking questions that make sense, same as during COVID, wait, why, why, how come I'm allowed to sit on a plane?
How come when I sit down in a restaurant, my mask comes off?
How come I can't be outside?
Sometimes just a couple common sense questions and people start going, oh, yeah, this doesn't really make sense.
And so you can't have common sense in front of people because they might wake up a little bit.
And so you know what you do?
You censor them by removing them and making sure that no one can hear that information.
And you just openly said that that's what you're doing, that you're treating questions about Israel the same as, you know, things that we would understand censoring on a platform, like an overtly racist statement, a call for aggression towards other groups of people.
Like there are things that you go, all right, I understand why you're not going to pay for this.
But when people are just asking questions and searching for truth and you go, well, we can't have that here.
It's censorship.
Yeah, 100%.
All right.
I think that's a great place to leave it.
Thank you guys very much for listening to this episode.