Part Of The Problem - Dave Smith - Saifedean Ammous
Aired: 2024-04-05
Duration: 01:22:46


=== Government Overreach and Prisons (02:21) ===

[00:00:00]  Fill her up!
[00:00:02]  You are listening to the gas human.
[00:00:08]  We need to roll back the state.
[00:00:10]  We spy on all of our own citizens.
[00:00:12]  Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
[00:00:16]  If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
[00:00:21]  Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
[00:00:33]  What's up, everybody?
[00:00:34]  Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
[00:00:37]  I'm excited for this one.
[00:00:38]  Real quick, before we get into it, a couple of plugs.
[00:00:41]  Don't forget, April 12th, Portland, Oregon at the Aladdin Theater.
[00:00:46]  Me and Robbie the Fire Bernstein will be there one night only.
[00:00:49]  It's our first theater show that we're doing.
[00:00:51]  So very excited about that.
[00:00:53]  I do want to make a quick announcement about this because it just got brought to my attention that there's something on the website of the Aladdin Theater that says something about how they reserve the right to require masks or check vaccination status.
[00:01:09]  Just so everybody knows, I had my people talk to the venue.
[00:01:12]  None of that stuff's going to be in effect for our show.
[00:01:16]  As you guys know, I wouldn't be doing the play.
[00:01:18]  I didn't do any, I didn't perform anywhere where they were doing vaccine checks or anything like that.
[00:01:23]  And I never got the vaccine and I don't have any of those fake cards or nothing.
[00:01:26]  So anyway, people were reaching out to me concerned about that.
[00:01:29]  I had my people talk to them.
[00:01:30]  We've been assured this is just some old thing that they have on their website.
[00:01:34]  It's Portland.
[00:01:34]  What are you going to do?
[00:01:35]  But come on out.
[00:01:36]  Anyway, bring your unvaccinated selves out to the show.
[00:01:39]  And then we got a bunch more dates coming up.
[00:01:40]  ComicdaveSmith.com for the whole tour schedule.
[00:01:43]  Go check that out.
[00:01:44]  All right.
[00:01:45]  I'm very happy to have Saif Dean Amos on the show today.
[00:01:50]  Thank you for joining us, sir.
[00:01:51]  If people are not familiar, Saif is an economist and a world-renowned author, known for a lot of his work in the Bitcoin space.
[00:02:00]  Of course, he wrote the Bitcoin Standard, which is an internationally best-selling book.
[00:02:06]  I'm going to anger my audience today because I've got Safe on the show.
[00:02:11]  I've had so many people for years have wanted me and you to have a conversation about Bitcoin.
[00:02:15]  Now we're sitting down and that's not really the topic for today's show.
[00:02:18]  We will do another podcast at some point all about Bitcoin, I promise.

=== Stealing Land and Ethnic Cleansing (10:41) ===

[00:02:22]  But I was interested to have you on because you've also been an outspoken critic of the Israeli government and of course their treatment of the Palestinian people.
[00:02:35]  And you are yourself Palestinian.
[00:02:38]  And I must confess, I have not talked to anyone who's Palestinian through this whole thing.
[00:02:45]  And I've done many shows on the topic.
[00:02:46]  I did do a show, The Dean Show, with Eddie, who's a Muslim, but he's not Palestinian.
[00:02:54]  And you're not only Palestinian by blood, but you actually grew up over there.
[00:02:59]  Is that right?
[00:03:01]  Yes.
[00:03:02]  So and you were, and you grew up in the West Bank?
[00:03:04]  Yeah, Ramallah.
[00:03:06]  Okay.
[00:03:06]  And so I'm just curious because I don't know this stuff.
[00:03:08]  So how long were you there?
[00:03:12]  I was there from 1990 until 1998.
[00:03:15]  I finished high school there.
[00:03:17]  Okay.
[00:03:18]  That's when I lived there.
[00:03:20]  So you have something that 99.999% of people commenting on this situation really don't have, which is that you actually have experience living under the occupation.
[00:03:35]  Yes, I have.
[00:03:37]  So what was, before we get into just kind of like talking about what's going on, the history of the war, we can talk about whatever you want to, but what was that like for you?
[00:03:45]  I mean, like, what were your experiences living under foreign military occupation?
[00:03:51]  Yeah, it's not a lot of fun.
[00:03:54]  It's not a fun thing to look back upon.
[00:03:57]  It's not a fun place to be.
[00:04:00]  Essentially, it's gotten a lot worse now than it was back then, but I've seen and I've followed the progression of how it just continued to get worse and worse.
[00:04:10]  Within the West Bank, you have the Israeli military that essentially controls the place, and they've effectively controlled it since 1967, even though the Palestinian authority has some kind of authority, but ultimately it is the Israelis who run the place.
[00:04:24]  And their main mission is to just try and get rid of as many Palestinians as they can and to try and capture as much land as they can.
[00:04:34]  I mean, this is really the key concept, you understand.
[00:04:37]  They want more land and fewer Arabs.
[00:04:40]  That's the way they see it.
[00:04:42]  And so they do everything they can to try and get you to leave.
[00:04:45]  They do everything they can to make your life miserable and they try and get as much of your land as they can.
[00:04:50]  And that just colors the entire experience of living there.
[00:04:54]  Yeah, no, I'm sure.
[00:04:56]  And of course, it's a situation that I would say if any, I think if any group of people found them, any group of human beings, as we know them, found themselves in that situation, they would find it unacceptable, unbearable, and wish to resist it.
[00:05:14]  And I think that, to me, at least seems to be the bottom line of the Israel-Palestinian conflict since at least 1967, although we could probably go back quite a bit before that, but at least since 1967,
[00:05:29]  that is the underlying dynamic that at least from, you know, my, you know, conclusion after doing a lot of studying is that no matter how much people on the kind of pro-Israeli side want to argue about everything else, you kind of just can't get away from that underlying fact that you just can't say you're going to occupy and dominate a people indefinitely and keep stealing their land.
[00:05:58]  Right.
[00:05:59]  And keep stealing their land continuously throughout the whole period.
[00:06:02]  Yeah, that's right.
[00:06:03]  And really, this is, you know, you shouldn't say, I shouldn't start at 1967.
[00:06:09]  And it could go back to the 1920s or something like that, but certainly at least since the creation of Israel.
[00:06:15]  And as I know I've heard, because I watched you debate Walter Block and you brought up, I believe you brought up Ilan Pape in that debate.
[00:06:22]  And I've read a bunch of his books.
[00:06:24]  And then, of course, the response is always to go to like character assassination.
[00:06:28]  So there's something, well, he's a leftist or something like that.
[00:06:30]  And you're like, yeah, okay, yeah, sure, he is.
[00:06:32]  I'm sure we think he's wrong about a whole bunch of other stuff.
[00:06:34]  But he really lays out in great detail that it's not just what happened in 1947 and 1948, but that every year after that, every year after that, there was more ethnic cleansing and more ethnic cleansing.
[00:06:45]  And some years it may have only been a few hundred Palestinians, but it was a constant process of kind of a lot at once and then just slow ethnic cleansing over the years, over the years, and basically up until today.
[00:06:59]  Yeah, and it continues.
[00:07:00]  And essentially, if you see it from the perspective of anything that Israel does is justified self-defense and nothing the Palestinians do is justified self-defense, then you just have this dominant, stupid narrative that people have, which is Israel is this stranded David defending itself from all of these Goliathas that surround it, which is the complete opposite of reality.
[00:07:29]  This is a foreign population that came in funded massively and armed massively with foreign weapons and has been stealing land.
[00:07:39]  The key thing, I keep bringing this up, is that in 1945, the British conducted a very, very thorough and accurate assessment of land ownership in Palestine.
[00:07:53]  And from the privately owned land, forgetting all the public land, just the privately owned land, which is about 56% of all the land was privately owned from that, about 10% was owned by Jews.
[00:08:06]  So 5.6% of the entire territory was owned by Jews or the Jewish National Fund.
[00:08:13]  And 90% of private property there, about 46% approximately of all the land was owned by Muslims and Christians.
[00:08:24]  And so this was the point at which they already had, with the help of the British, established the state and built a military and carried out the process of ethnic cleansing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their home.
[00:08:38]  Right.
[00:08:39]  You know, one of the things, because I know, you know, I kind of grew up, because I'm Jewish, so I grew up with the official Israeli propaganda being all that I ever heard of the story.
[00:08:53]  So the story is, you know, told to you basically that like, oh, you know, like this, there's this group of our people.
[00:09:00]  We were mistreated all throughout the world.
[00:09:03]  And we wanted to start our homeland here, land without people, people without land.
[00:09:09]  And then all these Arabs just attacked us, this little group, and they just all attacked us, all these surrounding countries, just because we declared independence.
[00:09:17]  You know, okay, like all of that aside, which is not exactly the real history of it.
[00:09:21]  But then the story is always like, and somehow miraculously, we won.
[00:09:27]  We won, even though all of these countries.
[00:09:29]  And I do look back at it now and I go, isn't, I guess that's in the story where my eyebrows should have raised initially.
[00:09:36]  Because that sounds kind of crazy.
[00:09:37]  Like, wait, you're just this little puny minority who's just been beat up by everybody.
[00:09:42]  And then all of these nations attack your one day old nation and you win.
[00:09:48]  Well, how exactly does that happen?
[00:09:50]  And then like the more you actually study the history, you realize that, oh, well, because that's not the story, because the story is actually that a group of incredibly well-financed Europeans who had like international bankers behind them went in there and developed these very sophisticated, very badass, very cruel militias, many of whom were blatantly involved in terrorism before the creation of, immediately before the creation of Israel.
[00:10:19]  And that's why they won.
[00:10:21]  Because they were basically coming in with first world financing, picking on people who didn't have anything like that backing them up.
[00:10:30]  And also because their real enemy in that war was the Palestinian population.
[00:10:34]  It wasn't the Arab militaries.
[00:10:37]  And the Palestinian population had essentially already been effectively disarmed.
[00:10:41]  There was no Palestinian military.
[00:10:42]  There was no Palestinian police.
[00:10:45]  They were disarmed between 1936 and 1939 by the British with the help of these same Zionists.
[00:10:52]  So the Zionist movement had already been extremely militant and extremely political and extremely organized and had the British Empire behind it, clear on the idea that we want to set up a Jewish state.
[00:11:03]  And they did do that in 1948.
[00:11:06]  And they did do that by kicking out somewhere between 800,000 to 1 million people from their homes.
[00:11:12]  And they destroyed their homes.
[00:11:14]  They destroyed their entire villages.
[00:11:15]  More than 500 villages have been completely destroyed.
[00:11:18]  That was just in 1948.
[00:11:20]  Many more have been destroyed since, and many are still getting destroyed until today.
[00:11:24]  And they confiscated effectively the land.
[00:11:28]  This is what it ultimately comes down to.
[00:11:31]  For the libertarians out here who are sold the garbage propaganda about Israel being some kind of a freedom haven, Israel was created out of the government's confiscation of the land of the people that they chased out at gunpoint.
[00:11:46]  And the state continues to own 93% of the land of the country.
[00:11:50]  93% is owned by the state.
[00:11:52]  And that can't be owned privately by anybody.
[00:11:56]  It can only be leased to Jews.
[00:11:59]  So any person from anybody anywhere in the world who claims to be Jewish can go there and get land effectively leased at extremely subsidized rates.
[00:12:09]  The same land that is being confiscated today or was confiscated at any point between 1948 until today through this massive process of ethnic cleansing.
[00:12:20]  And these Palestinians who were kicked out of that land cannot buy that land or go back to it under any possible scenario.
[00:12:29]  There's nothing we can do.
[00:12:30]  My wife's family, they left at gunpoint from Jaffa, which is now south of Tel Aviv, and they left to Beirut and they had property in Manshi, in Jaffa, and they can't access it.
[00:12:45]  They can't go back to it.
[00:12:46]  There's no amount of money that that family could put up in order to go back to that piece of land.
[00:12:52]  But random fat ass dudes from Long Island, like Yaakov, look him up, the guy who came up with Israel's motto.

=== The Knife Club Sponsorship (02:26) ===

[00:13:03]  If I don't steal it, someone else will.
[00:13:06]  Just some random dude from Long Island who can go to Palestine and kick a Palestinian family out of their homes and take over their home because he's Jewish and they're not.
[00:13:14]  That's what it really is.
[00:13:15]  So if you support some kind of free market idea, if you think the state shouldn't intervene, the entire existence of the state of Israel is just one massive government intervention in the market of land for Palestine.
[00:13:28]  This is it.
[00:13:28]  It's just one massive government distortion, violently enforced, where the military steals land and the government administers that land to anybody from anywhere in the world who claims to be Jewish and prevents the owners of that land from keeping it, no matter how much money they pay, because it just assigns them collective guilt for whatever any of them does in self-defense or in any shape or form.
[00:13:53]  They're all guilty of it all.
[00:13:54]  So they all get to go and they all can't come back.
[00:13:57]  Yeah, it's really something.
[00:13:58]  I mean, look, and again, I know there's people, because it's just kind of the nature of human beings.
[00:14:03]  No matter what issue you have, no matter how blatantly wrong something is, there will be people who do mental gymnastics to try to somehow defend the indefensible.
[00:14:13]  I mean, you know, you debated Walter Block.
[00:14:15]  That was the name of the book he wrote.
[00:14:16]  So he's really taking it to the next level with this with this war.
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=== Anti-Semitism and Ben Shapiro (15:47) ===

[00:15:30]  All right, let's get back into the show.
[00:15:32]  There are a few things that like to me were just, you know, in kind of reassessing my view on all of this and reading a lot about it that were just things where it's like, yeah, you just can't get away from that.
[00:15:42]  And one of the major ones to me was that point that you're making right there that I, I somehow, well, okay, this may not apply to me anymore, but before I started podcasting about all this stuff, I have the right to go to Israel tomorrow and just, and that's it.
[00:16:00]  It's, I have a right to go there.
[00:16:02]  Yet somebody who was there, I mean, 1948 is like, it's a long time ago, but it's not that long ago.
[00:16:07]  There are people who were alive, you know, during this time who are still alive right now.
[00:16:11]  fewer and fewer of them as the years go on, but there are people, but the guy who actually owned a house there is not allowed to return, but yet some random Jew from Brooklyn, New York can just go there.
[00:16:24]  And you just can't get past that.
[00:16:26]  I mean, that's if you, if you believe in property rights in any sense, not even being strict libertarians like me and you are, I'm just saying like you're normie person who just kind of feels like, you know, based, yeah, okay, I own my house or something like that.
[00:16:40]  It's just indefensible.
[00:16:41]  And I will say, I, you know, I watched recently the Lex Friedman podcast where they had a very long debate, a two-on-two debate about the history of this.
[00:16:53]  And, and it's like, it's painful to me to hear like Benny Morris, who you know knows better, making these like kind of ridiculous defenses for the ethnic cleansing.
[00:17:06]  And like, it's like it wasn't an ethnic cleansing, but if it was an ethnic cleansing, then maybe we should have done more of the ethnic cleansing and all of this stuff.
[00:17:14]  And the argument that he seems to be making.
[00:17:17]  Look, I know Nazi comparisons are lazy quite often, but it's the identical argument that I've heard Holocaust deniers make, which is that what they'll say is that you can't find the official document that says it is the policy of the Zionists to ethnically cleanse all of these people.
[00:17:41]  But you do have what you can find essentially, and by the way, this is what Holocaust deniers argue about the Holocaust.
[00:17:46]  You can't find the official document where Adolf Hitler orders the German people to go genocidal.
[00:17:53]  And it's like, okay, yes.
[00:17:55]  But what we do have is that he talked about doing it for many years.
[00:18:00]  A bunch of people at the top level of government talked about doing it and then they did it.
[00:18:06]  So that's enough.
[00:18:07]  That's more than enough to create a narrative of, which is what historians do.
[00:18:12]  And that's essentially the same thing here that you have with the early Zionist settlers.
[00:18:17]  Transfer was talked about over and over and over again from all of the top Zionist officials.
[00:18:24]  And then when they had the opportunity to, they did it.
[00:18:27]  And we were sitting here arguing over whether there was an official document that said we were going to do it.
[00:18:32]  I mean, we know what happened here.
[00:18:34]  And again, there's one of the things about 1948 not being that long ago is we also have firsthand testimony from people on both sides of it.
[00:18:43]  I'm sure you've seen those compilations of old Israeli soldiers talking about what they did in the war.
[00:18:50]  And some of them kind of laughing and kind of expressing this kind of sociopathic glee about it.
[00:18:56]  Others seem kind of ashamed about it, but they all talk about what they did.
[00:19:01]  This is not really up for debate.
[00:19:04]  Yeah, it's predominantly up for debate in the U.S. where and like outside in the rest of the world.
[00:19:09]  In Israel, the sentiment is much more like, yeah, we did it.
[00:19:12]  I think now as well.
[00:19:14]  I mean, I would say maybe in the 70s, 80s, 90s, there was a more denialist and also kind of more decent conception of what Israel is.
[00:19:25]  So for people that was, you know, we would never do something like this.
[00:19:28]  And even if we did it, you know, we just don't talk about it.
[00:19:31]  But now it's a lot more like, yeah, we did it and we should do more of it.
[00:19:35]  And we're going to do more of it.
[00:19:37]  And it's only the only real debate you see, unfortunately, within kind of most discourse there is whether we should be very public about it so that the world could hold it against us or whether we should just try and not be very public about it.
[00:19:58]  But the let's be public about it side seems to be winning that debate, that's for sure.
[00:20:03]  Yeah, well, I mean, I got to say, I'm...
[00:20:06]  I've been a little bit surprised that after the ICJ ruling, they've still been so blatant about their rhetoric because you would have thought at least at that point they'd go, hey, let's not like broadcast exactly what our intentions here are.
[00:20:23]  But it has not slowed them down one bit.
[00:20:26]  I'll tell you, and this is maybe a little bit of a conspiracy speculating, but there are, I'll just say this.
[00:20:36]  Sometimes it seems to me that, you know, you see people like that Rabbi Shmuly Botek and people like this.
[00:20:48]  And it just seems to me like, you go, are you trying to create more hatred of Jewish people?
[00:20:55]  Like, is that your goal?
[00:20:57]  Because if that was your goal, you couldn't be doing a better job.
[00:21:00]  And I will say there's this weird dynamic that's been true from the very beginning of Zionism, where in a strange way, there is this symbiotic relationship between hatred of Jews and the Zionist agenda, where they actually kind of work well together.
[00:21:21]  And this is part of the reason why the Stern gang wanted to ally with the Nazis in the very beginning of World War II.
[00:21:30]  And it was only because Adolf Hitler really didn't like Jews so much that he wasn't willing to do it.
[00:21:34]  But you could understand where the Zionist agenda at the time very much lined up with Hitler's agenda.
[00:21:42]  I mean, Hitler was like, we want to kick all the Jews out of Europe.
[00:21:45]  And the Zionists were like, yeah, it's exactly what we want.
[00:21:47]  We want all the Jews to leave Europe and come here.
[00:21:50]  And still to this day, there is this dynamic where the only justification that Israel has for what it's doing to Gaza right now has to rely on there's this huge hatred of Jewish people everywhere.
[00:22:04]  And it almost does seem like seems like drumming that up might actually be their goal.
[00:22:10]  And, you know, I don't know if that's true for sure, but I do know for sure that they are creating more hatred of Jewish people and that they also benefit from that to some degree.
[00:22:21]  Yeah, I mean, I think my honest opinion is that Zionism is a form of ethno-nationalism from late 19th century, early 20th century Eastern Europe.
[00:22:31]  And we've seen how that one works out.
[00:22:34]  We've had all of 20th century European history as one giant open-air experiment in how that works out.
[00:22:41]  And the answer is not, well, that stuff doesn't really work very well.
[00:22:47]  It particularly doesn't work when done by an imported population in a land in which they are a tiny minority.
[00:22:52]  So in 1917, when the Balfour Declaration was issued by the British government, Jews constituted something around 5% of the local population, but they were a part of the population.
[00:23:03]  And when people talk about anti-Semitism, it's worth understanding how things were back then.
[00:23:10]  There's a diary by a Polish Hasidic rabbi who traveled to Palestine in 1747.
[00:23:18]  And he describes how in Hebron, the Jews there live and they have an open courtyard where they leave it unlocked during the Sabbath and nobody comes to them.
[00:23:27]  And then they celebrate with all of the others.
[00:23:28]  And everybody here loves the Jews.
[00:23:30]  And for him, it's unique that because he's used to Poland, this is different in Palestine.
[00:23:37]  They're loved and they're celebrated and they're respected.
[00:23:40]  And that was really the case.
[00:23:42]  They could own property up until 1948.
[00:23:46]  It was possible for Jews to own property.
[00:23:47]  And that's how Zionist Europeans came to Palestine and purchased property legally.
[00:23:53]  Only after 1948 did this become an issue.
[00:23:57]  Only then did the land market become ethnicity-based.
[00:24:00]  Before that, for 1,300 years, you had a practically free market in land.
[00:24:06]  And specifically, that started, ironically, and most people don't know this, of course, that started in 637 with the Muslim conquest, because it was the Islamic conquest of Palestine that allowed Jews back in, because Jews were exiled five centuries earlier.
[00:24:24]  They came back thanks to the Islamic conquest.
[00:24:26]  When Omar, the second caliph in Islam, entered Jerusalem, he got some Jews from Arabia with him, historians who could figure out from Jerusalem where the temple was.
[00:24:37]  And they figured it out and it was a trash dump.
[00:24:39]  The Romans had turned it into a trash dump.
[00:24:41]  And they figured out where it was and they cleaned it and they rehabilitated it and they built a mosque on it and they allowed the Jews to pray there as well.
[00:24:47]  And since then, Jews had lived there while all of this anti-Semitic drama was happening in Europe, allowing them to develop this kind of PTSD ethno-nationalism that brings all of that anti-Semitism to Palestine and projects it on the local population, which had accepted Jews for 1300 years.
[00:25:09]  Muslims and Christians and Jews had coexisted and lived there.
[00:25:13]  And trouble only starts when you tie the land ownership and the state and citizenship to ethnicity, as it would in any other situation in any other country.
[00:25:27]  It's not complicated.
[00:25:28]  If you did the same thing, you know, that's what I asked Walter Block.
[00:25:31]  If you did the same thing in Louisiana, Louisiana is about 10% French at this point.
[00:25:36]  So you could say Louisiana should be a French homeland.
[00:25:39]  I mean, you could start a religion that believes that and have a holy book that says Louisiana should be French.
[00:25:45]  And it's 10% of them.
[00:25:46]  And now all the non-French can't own land anymore.
[00:25:49]  How would Walter Block feel about that?
[00:25:51]  And I think more interestingly is the question I asked him, why doesn't he campaign for something like that?
[00:25:56]  Why does he feel so strongly about it that he writes a book in defense of that happening in my land?
[00:26:03]  But he doesn't want the same for America in his land.
[00:26:06]  Well, it does seem like with a lot of people, this is certainly not exclusive to Walter Block, although it is, I will admit, it's much more troubling and slightly heartbreaking to hear him make these mistakes.
[00:26:22]  But lots of people, and this has really been on display since October.
[00:26:27]  It's amazing how much people contradict themselves or contradict the foundation of everything they believe in when the topic of Israel comes up.
[00:26:36]  And I'm not 100% sure why exactly that is.
[00:26:39]  I have my suspicions, but it's amazing.
[00:26:41]  I mean, watching all these people, you know, the Ben Shapiro types who like made millions of dollars railing against cancel culture and being pro-free speech, opposing identity politics.
[00:26:55]  And yet, when the topic of Israel comes up, they all become blue-haired, 19-year-old college freshman chicks who like all they can do is.
[00:27:05]  I mean, I literally just, I want to see if I have this exchange right here because it's just earlier today.
[00:27:10]  I just had another one, like the thousandth of these things.
[00:27:14]  But so Darrell Cooper, are you familiar with Darryl Cooper, who's who's great and is really just ready for the world?
[00:27:24]  Yes, he's martyr made on Twitter.
[00:27:27]  His podcast series about the history of Israel, Palestine is phenomenal.
[00:27:31]  People should really check that out if you have the time.
[00:27:33]  But so he wrote a thing to this guy, Richard Goldberg.
[00:27:38]  So he writes, this is his tweet.
[00:27:41]  I'll read it.
[00:27:41]  He said, he said, so he's talking about the World Central Kitchen that was to feed hungry people.
[00:27:52]  It was developed after the 2010 Haiti earthquake.
[00:27:56]  And they have since been serving people after disasters in many countries, including Gaza.
[00:28:03]  And he writes this.
[00:28:04]  He writes, the IDF purposely murdered several of the WCK, the World Central Kitchens, aid workers in three separate strikes to pick off survivors trying to escape.
[00:28:16]  Andres expressed his grief and outrage over this crime.
[00:28:21]  And all three extra human scum can do is call him an anti-Semite, disgusting, disgraceful.
[00:28:30]  And you disgrace yourself by standing with people like Goldberg.
[00:28:34]  So that's what he said.
[00:28:36]  And this Richard Goldbark Goldberg's response is, people like Goldberg, why don't you just say what's really on your mind?
[00:28:44]  Let it out.
[00:28:45]  So his only response to this is what?
[00:28:48]  It's like what the college kids' response is.
[00:28:50]  You're a racist.
[00:28:52]  You know, this is like, anyway.
[00:28:54]  Exactly.
[00:28:54]  Exactly.
[00:28:55]  It's so pathetic.
[00:28:56]  And it's amazing because they've monetized and built an entire brand on their opposition to that and on the whole idea that you being gay does not mean that I need to say things or you being trans does not mean that I should say things.
[00:29:11]  And that sounds so edgy until it comes to this government-owned land plot that they insist must be managed on an ethno-basis.
[00:29:21]  And now everybody must unite.
[00:29:22]  You know, this is, if you wanted to summarize somebody like Ben Shapiro, this kind of giant class of parasites that keep repeating this message, essentially, which is identity politics is bad, but we should all unite behind Israel, you know, then send it unlimited money and weapons.
[00:29:40]  And that's just basic common sense.
[00:29:42]  And if you don't do that, then obviously you're just a racist.
[00:29:46]  I mean, to be a Zionist who rails against identity politics just in itself, like, how does your head not explode from the contradiction of that?
[00:29:55]  Yeah, I always wondered, like, why wouldn't you support something like this being done here in the States with a similar dynamic where Christians only can own land and minorities cannot?
[00:30:07]  And then why don't you lobby for something like that there?
[00:30:11]  Yeah.
[00:30:11]  And what would you do if that happened?
[00:30:13]  What would you do if a candidate ran on that platform?
[00:30:16]  Like imagine Itamar Ben-Gavir and Bezalel Smotrich, basically the two most important people in Israeli politics at this point, the extremist wing that decides if the government stays in power or not.
[00:30:30]  And they capture a lot of the sentiment in this war and they've been instrumental in it.
[00:30:37]  Well, let's do a thought experiment.
[00:30:38]  What happens if an American politician decides to run on a similar platform, but replacing Jews in Israel with Christians in America?
[00:30:47]  What would you do as an American then?
[00:30:50]  Yeah.
[00:30:51]  I mean, to ask the question answers that itself.
[00:30:54]  And the other thing that's crazy to me is that, you know, I remember watching over, you know, it's not that long ago, but it was back in 2017, 2018, how much the neocons hated the alt-right types, like the white nationalist guys who had their march in Charlottesville or whatever.
[00:31:14]  And the neocons would be all over just how horrible they are.

=== Building Settlements and Terrorism (15:25) ===

[00:31:18]  And then you just kind of realize it's like, yeah, but you're, you're the same, only for Israel.
[00:31:23]  You're like the exact same people.
[00:31:25]  You believe in the ethno-state down to everything.
[00:31:28]  I mean, down to the like, you know, like when they'd be like, well, this is why Donald Trump's rhetoric of build the wall is so upsetting and all this.
[00:31:36]  And you're like, oh, oh, okay.
[00:31:38]  But you're how, like, how can you make, you know what I mean?
[00:31:41]  It's just, it's so bizarre to me that you go, okay, so you're against ethno-nationalism and building a wall.
[00:31:48]  Yet you unblind.
[00:31:50]  You unquitely support Israel.
[00:31:52]  And the U.S. wall is built on U.S. territory.
[00:31:55]  It's uncontroversial territory.
[00:31:57]  It's uncontroversial border.
[00:31:58]  There's no dispute between the Mexicans and the U.S., as far as I know.
[00:32:02]  But Israel, of course, refuses to declare its border in the West Bank, because if it does declare its border, then it either has to take in the Palestinians and then make them either equal citizens, which it doesn't want to do, because then even after a century of fiat bullshit, yeah, they still can't get a majority or they're still very close to 50%.
[00:32:24]  So they can't just go and give everybody passports and just make them equal Israeli citizens because that defeats the whole point.
[00:32:30]  They want to keep this an ethno-national state.
[00:32:33]  And so they want to keep their cake and eat it too.
[00:32:37]  They want to keep the West Bank and continue to steal land and continue to drive people away as much as they can to change the status quo and continue to build settlements.
[00:32:44]  And this is the key thing.
[00:32:45]  This is the thing.
[00:32:46]  When you talk to Zionists, I just had a debate with Yaron Brooke, which should be out soon on the Robert Breedlove show.
[00:32:52]  Oh, my God.
[00:32:54]  Now I have to, now I'm sentenced to go listen to that.
[00:32:57]  But God, I cannot stand that guy.
[00:32:58]  Well, anyway, I'm glad he debated somebody.
[00:33:01]  Yeah, but I mean, it got to the point where he says, okay, well, I condemn the settlers, but in their mind, they don't have the capacity because of all of the damage that the fiat Zionist propaganda does.
[00:33:13]  They don't have the capacity of processing the consequences of something like this.
[00:33:17]  They just think of it as, well, I'm going to say I condemn it.
[00:33:21]  And therefore, that just you can't use it as a part of the argument.
[00:33:26]  I'm still going to believe that Israel is doing good.
[00:33:28]  I'm still going to believe that they are the victim, even though they're stealing people's land and they're kicking them out of their homes and bringing in fat Long Islanders like Yaakov to take their homes.
[00:33:39]  You're still going to just say, I condemn that.
[00:33:41]  And then, you know, as if the victims of that are just supposed to say, oh, well, Yaron Brooks says he condemns it.
[00:33:47]  And now we can just get on with our lives.
[00:33:51]  But it doesn't, it doesn't work like that.
[00:33:53]  It's been 76, 77 years of this violent repression.
[00:34:00]  Yeah.
[00:34:01]  And look, I mean, I think that the damage of the settlements for what for anybody who doesn't know, what we're referring to basically is the fact that, so again, rough history.
[00:34:13]  And I've gone through this a lot on the podcast, but just very quickly, rough history, right?
[00:34:17]  The UN partition recommendation in 1947 offered the Jews BAP 55% of the territory.
[00:34:25]  The Arabs rejected this immediately because the Jews only owned like 5% of the land there and they were a minority of the population.
[00:34:33]  And they were like, no, this is ridiculous that they should get this much.
[00:34:36]  Yeah, I think the way to think about it is imagine the United Nations goes to your country and says 55% of this country needs to go to this government, new government that we're going to be setting up that's going to get 50% of the country that's going to own it.
[00:34:48]  It's going to have a land agency.
[00:34:49]  It's called the Israeli Land Authority that's just going to own all of the land.
[00:34:53]  And if you don't like it, then they're going to just have to launch a war against you.
[00:34:59]  Yeah.
[00:34:59]  And imagine, and they were like, okay, well, we have to give over half of your country to these people because they were like horribly mistreated in Asia.
[00:35:09]  And you'd be like, well, okay, but like, why shouldn't they get a part of Asia?
[00:35:14]  And you're like, no, no, no, no, don't worry about it.
[00:35:16]  We all, we voted on it and all of the Asian countries agreed that you should give up 50% close of your land.
[00:35:23]  Like wait, but so what?
[00:35:25]  Like who cares if they said that?
[00:35:26]  Because there wasn't, as Darrell Cooper points out, there wasn't like a country within like a thousand miles of Palestine who voted for the partition recommendation um, anyway.
[00:35:37]  So then, after uh the war in, uh in in 48 the, the Zionists take much more than that 55, closer to 78 of the land, and they so they keep that.
[00:35:49]  And then, after the war in in 1967, they essentially took 100 of it and have had control of that ever since.
[00:35:58]  And so the settlements are them building uh huge communities on the, the remaining 22 percent where the Palestinians live but is under Israeli control.
[00:36:10]  And so it's not just the fact that they're building settlements there, it's symbolically, what it demonstrates to the Palestinian people is that you're never getting this back.
[00:36:22]  You're never getting, you're never even going to get the 22 that's left.
[00:36:26]  Forget about getting back to, you know, like any of the territory you used to have.
[00:36:31]  And so the, the message basically, is that you should be hopeless.
[00:36:37]  You should be hopeless to ever not live under this totalitarian rule, and that is uh, and this doesn't justify uh terrorism or killing of innocent people or anything like that, but that is a perfect recipe to create terrorism, to tell people that you're living under totalitarianism and it's permanent.
[00:36:56]  You never have any hope, and that is terrorism in itself.
[00:37:00]  Yes, absolutely.
[00:37:01]  It is not morally distinct in any way from the um, the indiscriminate terrorism that targets civilians.
[00:37:08]  This is the thing, ultimately.
[00:37:10]  If you believe in initiating violence against people who haven't um initiated violence, then you are engaging in terrorism.
[00:37:19]  If you want to, if you want to use the term in any way other than the kind of um Orwellian way in which it gets used in mainstream media, which is, anybody in the West doesn't like the, the idea of terrorizing civilians in order to achieve political games, in order to get the civilians to move.
[00:37:35]  That's um.
[00:37:36]  That's essentially what Israel has been doing all along, and they were the ones who brought in the terrorism to the region.
[00:37:43]  I mean, read about Israeli terrorism in 1947, 1948.
[00:37:47]  It makes the Palestinians look like amateurs.
[00:37:49]  One of the biggest explosions done in the 20th century was in the King David hotel, or maybe it's one.
[00:37:53]  It was one of the other ones, but they broke records.
[00:37:57]  Uh, they killed like 91 people, including some Jews.
[00:38:00]  My own grandfather escaped.
[00:38:02]  Uh had left the building minutes before, minutes after um, no minutes before obviously.
[00:38:09]  He left.
[00:38:10]  Minutes before uh, the whole building was uh blown up.
[00:38:14]  This was very common and the point was to terrorize the population to get them to leave.
[00:38:18]  It was very well understood and that's what they did.
[00:38:20]  Yeah, and and and uh, just so people know.
[00:38:24]  It's not.
[00:38:27]  They expressly openly, admitted this.
[00:38:30]  It's not as if this is like like the label.
[00:38:32]  Terrorism is uh like a label that you're putting on the, The Zionist militias right up the right previously to the creation of the state of Israel.
[00:38:40]  They openly said, Menachem Begin openly said that like, yeah, we think this is a legitimate tool and that they were in from their perspective, because it, you know, at this point, late in the game, basically by the during World War II and after World War II, basically the British had pissed everybody off.
[00:39:01]  The Arabs didn't like them and the Jews didn't like them either anymore.
[00:39:05]  And they were kind of in this impossible dance where for many years they were trying to appease the Zionists.
[00:39:11]  There were uprisings as a result to this.
[00:39:13]  Then they tried to appease the Arabs by limiting Jewish migration into Palestine in the run up to World War II.
[00:39:19]  And during World War II, that pissed the Zionists off.
[00:39:21]  So they were kind of in this position where like they couldn't, they just didn't know what to do.
[00:39:26]  This is why they ultimately threw their hands up and kicked it over to the UN.
[00:39:29]  But in the meantime, the Zionists openly embraced terrorism and their defense was that the British were an occupying force.
[00:39:40]  And so terrorism was a legitimate tool to use to drive occupiers out of your land.
[00:39:47]  And it's just funny that that's, it's like, okay, so you guys did establish that you think it's legitimate to use terrorism to drive out occupiers.
[00:39:56]  Well, you know, okay, this is the bed that you made.
[00:40:00]  And that, by the way, that's not to say that the Zionists were correct in that.
[00:40:03]  I'm sure me and Safe would both agree that you can't kill innocent people.
[00:40:06]  It doesn't matter what the circumstances are.
[00:40:08]  I do think we would also agree that you have a right to self-defense.
[00:40:12]  A soldier coming into your territory is not the same thing as a civilian sitting in the territory next door to you.
[00:40:19]  But I'm just making the point that the Zionists really have no moral leg to stand on here to condemn terrorism as a tactic to drive out an occupier.
[00:40:29]  Yeah.
[00:40:29]  And the entire brand rests on moral superiority.
[00:40:33]  And so the entire brand rests on, you know, we have more gay pride parades in Israel than the Palestinians, and therefore we get to take their land.
[00:40:42]  We have more whatever is fashionable to the audience that you're talking to.
[00:40:46]  This is the kind of formula for the Israeli Hasbara.
[00:40:49]  You just emphasize that aspect of it.
[00:40:50]  And there's more of it, obviously, in Israel, because, you know, when you've just stolen an entire country, you're going to be doing a lot better than the people whose entire country just got stolen and lost their homes and became refugees with nothing in foreign lands.
[00:41:04]  It's going to be very different.
[00:41:06]  You took an entire country and then you were able to build on it, which the Palestinians didn't really have the ability to do.
[00:41:13]  But this is the same kind of justification that they continue to use to try and pass this off, that we can get to genocide Gaza.
[00:41:25]  We can kill as many civilians as we can because they started it, because they are immoral.
[00:41:31]  They are doing impossibly immoral things.
[00:41:34]  But there is nothing that the Palestinians have done that matches what the Israelis have done in terms of targeting civilians, in terms of terrorizing people, kicking them out of their homes, aerial bombardments of civilians.
[00:41:46]  It's incomparable.
[00:41:48]  Yeah.
[00:41:48]  No, and then they always rely on this kind of this like hypothetical projection of, so they'll go, well, well, Hamas had genocidal intent or something like that.
[00:42:00]  Or Hamas, you know, and, you know, look, I don't know.
[00:42:04]  I mean, maybe, maybe that's true.
[00:42:05]  I'm sure that there is true for some people in Hamas that would, if they had the power, maybe, you know, like wipe the Jews out or something like that.
[00:42:14]  But they don't have the power to do that.
[00:42:16]  So what are we even talking about?
[00:42:17]  It's like, it's like talking about what a schizophrenic homeless guy on the street would do if he had the nuclear codes or something like that.
[00:42:26]  It's like, oh, okay, but that's all just hypothetical.
[00:42:29]  Meanwhile, Israel does have the power and is doing what they're doing to the people of Gaza.
[00:42:35]  So how they get you to focus on this hypothetical, you know, I've had people say to me, you know, the important question is, what do you think Hamas would do if they took power over Israel?
[00:42:47]  And I'm like, Hamas doesn't even have power in Gaza.
[00:42:51]  Like, what are you talking about?
[00:42:52]  Like, what, what fantasy are you living in that they're ever going to rule over the Israelis?
[00:42:57]  But Israel ruling over the Palestinians isn't a fantasy.
[00:43:01]  That's what's actually happening.
[00:43:03]  And it's, I mean, of course, you understand where they have to distract from that and focus on everything else because it's just the actual, the actual finance minister of Israel is talking about how we should start making our plans for the afterwar with a population, with an Arab population in Gaza of about 100 to 200,000.
[00:43:22]  So he's already making plans for a Gaza with 2 million fewer people in it.
[00:43:28]  That's the plan of the finance minister.
[00:43:31]  You have the president saying there's no such thing as an innocent civilian in Gaza.
[00:43:35]  You have the prime minister invoking biblical verses specifically saying, do not spare any child or woman or civilian, specifically to appease the base that wants to see this.
[00:43:47]  And it's taking place.
[00:43:49]  We're seeing it.
[00:43:49]  The soldiers are chanting about it and it's fully televised.
[00:43:55]  And yet what's really bothering people is the feelings of stupid college kids in the U.S. when they hear about random other college kids protesting this stuff rather than the fact that all this mass murder is taking place, which is real genocide.
[00:44:17]  Well, look, I mean, look, of course, I agree with you.
[00:44:22]  And it's wild again to see that the sides flip and the people who are now very concerned about college kids feeling safe or whatever, you know what I mean?
[00:44:31]  Or this weird, this weird blurring of the line between hearing something that you don't like and that being the same as like violence, which has been kind of, you know, it's been a dominant narrative on college campuses, particularly over the last decade.
[00:44:48]  But it's, you know, so now a bunch of these right-wingers are somehow on board with this.
[00:44:54]  But of course, as I'm sure you're well aware, the flip side to that is that, man, international opinion really has been moved in a way that was unforeseeable to me before this current war, where it does seem like so many people, not just Americans, but around the world, but I'm particularly stunned by in America, how many people are waking up to like, oh, how, how evil what's happening there is.
[00:45:22]  And, you know, I was just the other day looking at some of the opinion polls about it, and it is pretty wild.
[00:45:28]  There's something like 50% of Democratic voters view it as a genocide.
[00:45:33]  And certainly amongst younger people, I think the fact that there's just been so much, so many images and videos out of this war.
[00:45:44]  I mean, it's like, I can't go on Twitter any day and not see like another five babies just being crushed to death in a building somewhere.
[00:45:54]  And it's, I do think at least waking a lot of people up to, you know, however horrific what happened on October 7th was and certainly was.
[00:46:08]  And of course, there's a lot about October 7th that still should be investigated.
[00:46:13]  But there's pretty much no question that a lot of innocent people were killed and it was horrible what happened.
[00:46:19]  But that just can't justify this.
[00:46:22]  I mean, innocent people getting killed is horrible, but that does not justify just killing babies.
[00:46:29]  I mean, it's like the worst thing in the world that any human being could do.
[00:46:33]  And we all see it every single day.
[00:46:35]  And I do think people have kind of, there's at least been a major shift in people's perception of what's going on there for many people.

=== Ben-Gurion and Zionist Propaganda (03:21) ===

[00:46:44]  I think so.
[00:46:45]  I kind of hope so.
[00:46:46]  I mean, I think it's just been so shocking because for the vast majority of people, you've been lectured incessantly over the last few decades.
[00:46:54]  And wherever you live in the world, you've been lectured on this whole human rights narrative, democracies don't do nasty things.
[00:47:03]  We respect human life.
[00:47:04]  And now you're seeing the mask come off because ultimately this really comes down to a set of rules that is not applicable to Israel.
[00:47:13]  It's never been applicable to Israel.
[00:47:15]  The Holocaust card has been played effectively since 1948, wherein we had all of these international treaties and all of these ways in which governments were supposed to be operating in the new world order.
[00:47:27]  But in the case of Israel, the rules were overlooked almost always under the pretext that, well, bad things happened.
[00:47:37]  And it never really got the kind of attention that it's getting right now.
[00:47:43]  Because let's face it, there's been an enormous amount of stupid propaganda everywhere, whether it's in Hollywood, TV, media, universities, newspapers, all of these places have been hotbeds of stupid Zionist propaganda that has massively colored people's brains.
[00:48:00]  And I think if you've woken up from propaganda in other parts of your life, which, you know, if you're listening to Dave Smith at this point, then you probably are, then I think you need to imagine going through a similarly transformative, large amount of mental clearing of garbage in order to be able to really understand what is going on.
[00:48:21]  Because you've watched so many movies in which the narrative has always been made to sound in a certain way.
[00:48:26]  All the media has been different.
[00:48:28]  And now, I mean, A, we have Palestinians are getting smartphones, so it's getting easier to get the word out.
[00:48:35]  But I think we've also seen an incredibly transformative change in the way Israel has been conducting itself.
[00:48:43]  I mean, the current Israeli leadership is nothing like anything that has existed before.
[00:48:46]  You don't have to be a fan of David Ben-Gurion, and I certainly am not, but you still have to understand this is enormously different from what was going on in 1948.
[00:48:56]  And in most of American, most of Israeli history, I mean, I guess Ben-Gurion, you could argue was probably the closest, but this was very different from most of Israeli history in the fact that they're very openly clear on the fact that we need to try and get as many Palestinians out of the West Bank in Gaza as we can, as fast as we can, capitalizing on October 7 as much as we can.
[00:49:22]  And of course, this is why we've seen this enormous amount of focus on the events of October 7 and the magnification with all these fantastic stories that have been completely proven false, like all of the beheaded babies and rape stories.
[00:49:40]  All that stuff is it's been pretty clear that the people behind it are completely untrustworthy liars in many contexts.
[00:49:48]  But it has been utilized to do this.
[00:49:51]  And I think you've seen this over and over and over again in American wars and in Israeli wars, where you get some kind of fake catastrophe, like the Kuwaiti incubator babies and so on.

=== Shelling, Dead, and Fake Catastrophes (09:13) ===

[00:50:05]  Or you magnify some kind of catastrophe and then people become emotional and they get into all kinds of insane decisions, which is effectively what happened then because it was kind of unthinkable for most people that they would support this kind of insane bombing of quantities.
[00:50:22]  But then if you factor in beheaded babies and all of these stories, then it becomes possible.
[00:50:29]  So people, just like with COVID, you know, people got really scared initially with the early propaganda of Seven Sigma pandemic and the once in a century flu or whatever the hell they were calling it at that time.
[00:50:46]  And then, you know, everybody was freaked out for a couple of months.
[00:50:49]  And then slowly but surely, by IQ point, I would say people started to wake up.
[00:50:57]  And people started to realize that, yeah, I mean, we see the same pattern when you get this enormous fear and then you get this giant reaction.
[00:51:06]  And then you get this weird change in where everybody changes their mind, but doesn't talk about it anymore, as we saw with COVID.
[00:51:16]  And I think we're seeing something similar here.
[00:51:19]  Yeah, and I know I know what you mean.
[00:51:20]  And then, of course, in that moment of fear is when powerful people in the government can do things that they always wanted to do anyway.
[00:51:28]  And then because they have their excuse.
[00:51:30]  All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is yokratom.com, home of the $60 kilo, longtime sponsor of this show, of this network, of SkankFest.
[00:51:41]  If you are over the age of 21 and you enjoy Kratom, make sure to get your Kratom from yokratom.com.
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[00:51:54]  YoKratom.com.
[00:51:56]  All right, let's get back into the show.
[00:51:58]  You know, I'll tell you, I was, so I was born in, I was born in 1983.
[00:52:03]  So the war in Iraq, the Persian Gulf, the first war in Iraq was 91, I believe.
[00:52:08]  So I was eight years old when it happened.
[00:52:10]  And I remember the babies in incubator story from the, like it made its way down to us eight-year-olds.
[00:52:16]  And we were like, oh, did you hear this thing?
[00:52:18]  Saddam Hussein's pulling babies out of incubators.
[00:52:20]  And it was just this, and you're like, wow, that's so evil that I guess we got to support, you know, whatever we got to go do to them to stop it.
[00:52:28]  And of course, people don't know the story.
[00:52:30]  It was famously just made up, all made up.
[00:52:32]  It doesn't even make sense.
[00:52:33]  Like in your head, you're just like, wait, so he was like, he was invading a country and he told his army, we got to stop off at the hospital and pull some babies out of incubators before, like just logistically, it doesn't even make sense.
[00:52:47]  You know what I mean?
[00:52:48]  And then, of course, no, the whole thing is just made up.
[00:52:50]  And yeah, the stuff with October 7th, it almost it, it seemed unnecessary to like add in these claims that didn't actually happen.
[00:53:01]  You know what I mean?
[00:53:02]  But it did, it also kind of felt like they're almost like they're testing you to even, because as soon as you start going, you know, it's like this tactic that as soon if a bunch of innocent people get killed and then they go, oh, and also they cut off this one woman's head and we're playing with it like a soccer ball.
[00:53:19]  And then they raped all these women and you go, and now there's not actually evidence that that happened.
[00:53:23]  Then they can immediately go, oh, you're downplaying the horrors of October 7th.
[00:53:27]  It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on.
[00:53:29]  Let's just, let's objectively discuss what actually happened.
[00:53:33]  If you're going to make that claim, you got to have some evidence for it.
[00:53:36]  But to your earlier point that I really do think is correct, and maybe this is a little bit hard to explain because when we talk about the history, we're talking about how, right, like we said in 48, there was this huge ethnic cleansing of three quarters of a million people or so.
[00:53:52]  And then, of course, you've had the occupation since 1967.
[00:53:56]  There have been military campaigns over and over and over again where people die and horrible things happen.
[00:54:02]  But it is also true that before Netanyahu, the IDF never behaved in this manner.
[00:54:12]  And they did, they always had assassination campaigns.
[00:54:15]  There have been since the occupation has been going on.
[00:54:19]  There were always waves of violence.
[00:54:23]  And there's been violence on all sides.
[00:54:25]  Obviously, a lot more Palestinians killed than Israelis killed.
[00:54:28]  But when there was terrorism under previous administrations, they would fight it with special operations.
[00:54:36]  They'd fight it with assassination campaigns and things like that, at least minimizing the amount of innocent people who get killed.
[00:54:45]  And this since October is just totally different.
[00:54:49]  I mean, this is like there's Israel has never conducted a military campaign like this before, where they have, I mean, and forget even the numbers, you know, whatever the latest numbers are and the, you know, tens of thousands of innocent people have been killed.
[00:55:03]  But the amount of people who are going to die as a result of this is enormous.
[00:55:09]  I mean, there's hundreds of thousands of people who have like severe food insecurity right now.
[00:55:14]  All of Gaza City has been destroyed.
[00:55:17]  I mean, it's very unclear.
[00:55:18]  And it's not as if this is stopping tomorrow, but even if it did stop tomorrow, it's very unclear how many people are going to die as a result of this.
[00:55:28]  I mean, you think about the fact that there's almost no functioning hospitals in Gaza right now.
[00:55:34]  And so how many deaths come off of that?
[00:55:36]  I mean, it's going to, the numbers are going to be truly horrific when this is all over.
[00:55:42]  Absolutely.
[00:55:43]  I think it's looking like a terrible humanitarian catastrophe.
[00:55:47]  I will say one more thing relating to October 7.
[00:55:52]  It seems to me a lot of these stories obviously turned out to be complete nonsense.
[00:55:57]  So the 40 beheaded babies was obviously nonsense from the beginning because you don't really have time to gather 40 babies, put them together and behead them, which is the claim, apparently.
[00:56:06]  And then it came out that there weren't even 40 babies dead in the entire thing.
[00:56:11]  There was like one baby dead and he died by a gunshot wound through a door by mistake, not even targeted deliberately.
[00:56:18]  But it seems to me so many of these particular stories have died.
[00:56:22]  And there is the very simple idea that for Hamas, the most valuable thing to do was to try and get as many hostages as possible.
[00:56:31]  And so all of these stories, the most horrific stories were all about the burning.
[00:56:37]  The idea that Hamas went into all of these homes and started burning people alive, which also makes very little sense because A, they had, I mean, they just didn't have enormous amount of artillery to create some kind of massive inferno.
[00:56:55]  Somebody else did, of course, the IDF.
[00:56:57]  And that's effectively what happened.
[00:56:59]  So in many of these places, the Hamas fighters were with civilians and the Israeli military was responding.
[00:57:06]  And the response from Israeli military, it's been shown over and over and over and over again that they just shelled indiscriminately.
[00:57:14]  They wanted to make sure to get the Hamas terrorists.
[00:57:16]  And so they wanted to make sure that nobody stayed alive.
[00:57:20]  And they just killed all of the Israelis in many of these cases.
[00:57:23]  So more and more, we're getting more and more of these documented cases.
[00:57:27]  But I mean, most people are in a blind rage, still in a stage of blind rage.
[00:57:30]  So for them, they're not able to process this.
[00:57:33]  But realistically, there is no way that all of these cars in the music festival got burned by Hamas.
[00:57:38]  How do you burn so many cars if you're out there with a bunch of AK-47s or light weaponry?
[00:57:46]  You can't just burn them.
[00:57:48]  And we have all these stories of the Israeli helicopters and Israeli tanks shelling civilians, Israeli civilians.
[00:57:56]  So you put two and two together.
[00:57:58]  It's very clear that all of this burning stuff was almost certainly the result of the shelling by the IDF.
[00:58:07]  And so for me, I think Hamas's real objective was to try and get as many hostages.
[00:58:12]  Israel's real objective was always to try and capitalize on this as much as possible to create as much carnage as possible to get as many Palestinians out of Gaza or dead as much as possible.
[00:58:24]  So create a humanitarian disaster, create a refugee crisis.
[00:58:29]  And so for all of that, you can see the logic also behind this indiscriminate shelling, because the more indiscriminate shelling means the more dead Israelis, which is going to help us in our long-term goal.
[00:58:44]  And the real goal, of course, is to continue to destroy Gaza.
[00:58:49]  And this is where Hamas has always been intransigent in a way that is ultimately, unfortunately, beneficial to Israel and extremely destructive for the Palestinian people because it gives them the excuse, it hides under the tunnels and it gives the Israelis the excuse to continue with their ethnic cleansing to the destruction of the Gaza population, hoping to create a refugee crisis.

=== Incentives for Escalation in Gaza (06:18) ===

[00:59:19]  And it's absolutely horrible.
[00:59:22]  Yeah, well, look, I mean, this is what Netanyahu was arguing in front of his fellow party members, which has been widely reported in the Times of Israel and Horetz and even in the New York Times, that he was arguing for years that we got to support Hamas because they actually play right into our hands.
[00:59:45]  And this is the bet, they're the best ones to have over there as the faces so that we can guarantee the Palestinians never get their independence.
[00:59:53]  Because come on, I could go to everyone in Washington, D.C. and say, well, what do you expect me to sit down with these guys?
[00:59:59]  And they'll go, yeah, okay, fair enough.
[01:00:01]  And so there is this weird, I mean, I know you're an economist and you wrote the Bitcoin standard where you talk about some of this stuff.
[01:00:07]  But the horrible incentives of governments and look, you could see where 9-11 happening in America generated enormous profits for weapons companies.
[01:00:24]  And I'm not saying that those, I'm not claiming any type of like conspiracy or anything like that.
[01:00:29]  I'm just saying if you look at the way the incentives line up, American, innocent Americans dying is good for business.
[01:00:38]  And there's just a lot, this is kind of the nature of governments in general.
[01:00:42]  It's really horrible.
[01:00:43]  They create these awful incentives where you would think, you know, like in any market condition, if your company was responsible for the defense of a group of people, you would be heavily incentivized to not have those people slaughtered.
[01:00:58]  But when you got government in the business of it, it's actually the opposite.
[01:01:03]  And so, yeah, you, and look, you see this.
[01:01:05]  There's like, as I was talking about before, there's this weird relationship between, say, like the terrorists and like the George W. Bush administration, you know, and I say terrorists in the conventional, you know, sense of anyone America hates or whatever, you know, but that's like, oh, if there's another, if there's another terrorist attack somewhere, George W. Bush and his approval numbers go up because everyone's like, oh, we want that guy to defend us from this.
[01:01:29]  And with Netanyahu, I mean, it's just so obvious.
[01:01:31]  The guy had hundreds of thousands of people in the street protesting him.
[01:01:35]  He was politically done.
[01:01:39]  And now he's kind of through a monumental failure is politically resurrected.
[01:01:46]  So, I mean, like, you just look at it and you go, okay, so you're the longest serving prime minister in Israeli history.
[01:01:53]  You had the stated explicit policy of propping up Hamas.
[01:01:58]  And then you failed to protect your people against this threat that you were helping to create.
[01:02:06]  And you're rewarded for that.
[01:02:07]  For that, you get to maintain power.
[01:02:10]  And when, man, when you get incentives like that, it's very difficult to get any type of positive outcome.
[01:02:16]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:02:17]  And I think there is a case.
[01:02:20]  I mean, if you wanted to get to the sort of similar conspiratorial position from the kind of Palestinian side, you'd see a similar mirror image wherein in order to be the leadership of Hamas, the leadership of the resistance, you take on that mantle and you get to use that and you get to produce the terrorism that is beneficial for the Israelis.
[01:02:45]  So therefore, you can see that perhaps in some of the motivation for October 7.
[01:02:50]  I mean, it is something that is completely callous toward the lives of Palestinians.
[01:02:56]  And it suggests a terrible set of incentives probably for Hamas because it doesn't even...
[01:03:06]  I mean, you could say on one level that this is Iran.
[01:03:09]  Some people say that claim.
[01:03:10]  I don't have an idea personally, but it seems that this was motivated by Hamas themselves.
[01:03:19]  Iran doesn't seem to have had a lot of knowledge in it, or at least to the extent of it, because it doesn't look like Iran was particularly excited about starting a war in this way.
[01:03:31]  And it doesn't look like it was in their interest for this thing to start.
[01:03:34]  So Hamas effectively, I mean, trying to explain their incentive, are they just being Iran in stooges?
[01:03:40]  I find that difficult to believe because it doesn't look to me like it has been in Iran's interest to start this particular war.
[01:03:49]  And it seems to me like there is that negative incentive, just like with the Israeli side, they need to escalate in order to stay in power.
[01:03:58]  I think you see something similar in the case of Hamas, and it's absolutely terrible.
[01:04:03]  And I think the cost in terms of humans is just incalculable.
[01:04:08]  Yeah, no, that's for sure.
[01:04:10]  All right.
[01:04:10]  So I should say, though, we should get back to, you said this wasn't going to be a Bitcoin podcast, but I'm not going to disappoint your Bitcoin.
[01:04:16]  Okay, there you go.
[01:04:17]  Good, good.
[01:04:18]  Bitcoin does fix this, I guess, in some level.
[01:04:22]  Bitcoin really could have fixed this if Bitcoin was invented like maybe 10, 20 years earlier, at least.
[01:04:27]  Who knows?
[01:04:28]  But ultimately, I mean, this insane military campaign that they've launched is an extremely expensive war.
[01:04:36]  You could have used that amount of firepower to occupy a much larger country.
[01:04:40]  But they've deliberately tried to destroy as many buildings of Gaza as possible, and they've been systematic in the destruction.
[01:04:48]  This is an enormous, enormous, enormous amount of weaponry.
[01:04:52]  And it would not have been possible without U.S. support.
[01:04:55]  And it would not have been possible without the U.S. money printer, which makes all horrible things on earth possible because it provides the horrible people who do horrible things access to a printer that allows them to externalize the cost of this to everybody else.
[01:05:10]  And really, ultimately, the only way to fix this is Bitcoin.
[01:05:13]  And it's a doubly significant issue in the case of Palestine, because ultimately the entire Balfour Declaration, the Zionist movement really only got going when they went from a bunch of weird socialist Eastern Europeans to having the British government promise Lord Rothschild, one of the richest people in the world, that they would work toward delivering this.

=== Hyperbaric Oxygen and Imperial Bonds (02:59) ===

[01:05:38]  And why did they do that?
[01:05:38]  They did that in World War I in 1917.
[01:05:42]  They were losing the war and they needed the Americans to get into the war.
[01:05:45]  And so this was kind of part of the deal for helping America get into the war.
[01:05:51]  And of course, for your American listeners, we'll probably appreciate how much of a horrible decision this was for America.
[01:05:59]  Really arguably, I mean, that period, of course, the establishment of the Federal Reserve was instrumental in that.
[01:06:06]  So World War I becomes the biggest catastrophe in human history because it was the, it coincided with the creation of the money printer or the money printers, but turned World War I into this enormous war.
[01:06:19]  You know, European wars were nothing like World War I before World War I.
[01:06:23]  They were limited conflicts that usually took place between militaries in battlefields.
[01:06:28]  And then World War I comes along and these militaries now have a money printer.
[01:06:33]  Everybody is getting robbed day in and day out into the war effort and the entire country falls apart.
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[01:08:02]  All right, let's get back into the show.
[01:08:04]  And Britain, I've discussed this in my second book, The Fiat Standard.
[01:08:07]  Britain got into World War I when they considered, when they decided to get in, they released a bond sale.
[01:08:14]  They sold bonds in 1915, I think it was, or 14, I forget exactly.
[01:08:21]  But only a third of those bonds were picked up on the market.
[01:08:24]  And this is really the greatest thing that British people ever did.
[01:08:27]  They only bought a third of their government's money because they realized, why the hell should we get involved in a war between Serbia and Austria and all of these strange European people?
[01:08:36]  Our interest is in the empire.

=== Native Rights and Colonial Systems (13:10) ===

[01:08:37]  It has nothing to do with this.
[01:08:39]  So they had no reason to get involved.
[01:08:40]  They didn't buy the bonds.
[01:08:41]  The Central Bank of England, the Bank of England, went and bought these bonds using a fake line of credit given to two of its employees who bought the bonds in their own private name.
[01:08:52]  And then the Financial Times, the shitcoin media of the day, went and published how successful the bond offering was and that everybody's getting ready for war and we're going to win this war and everything's going to be great and dandy.
[01:09:05]  So of course they get into the war with fake printed money.
[01:09:08]  They have to suspend the gold standard and they get dragged into an endless war with a whole bunch of stupid governments who also thought their magic money printer could allow them to fight until a victory.
[01:09:22]  And they were all just bogged down and then they needed the Americans to come in.
[01:09:25]  And since then, the world has never gone back on sound money and we've had conflict in the Middle East.
[01:09:33]  So it's a very sad situation what is going on, but I still, it almost feels cruel to be bringing this back to Bitcoin.
[01:09:41]  I still honestly and genuinely believe this is ultimately a monetary phenomenon.
[01:09:44]  This notion, because ultimately this is a market distortion.
[01:09:47]  You're distorting the market for land in Palestine, as we discussed earlier, by preventing Palestinians from owning land in all kinds of military means and then making the land available for Jews from all over the world.
[01:09:58]  This kind of market distortion is very expensive.
[01:10:00]  How do you maintain that?
[01:10:01]  Have a bunch of governments who print a bunch of money to finance a bunch of criminal bullshit.
[01:10:06]  Take out the government's money printer and you get rid of a lot of that.
[01:10:10]  We're not necessarily going to have utopia the next day, but people who make the utopia argument are exactly like saying, you know, fixing sewage in your house is going to stop your house from having all over it, that that's not going to fix your relationship with your wife.
[01:10:23]  Maybe right, might not fix everything in your life and that might make you a billionaire, but you're going to get out of your house and getting this of the money printer out of the market for real estate in Palestine.
[01:10:35]  I think it would be the uh first step toward solving this.
[01:10:40]  Yeah, you know, at the um, at the end of uh, Daryl Cooper's uh podcast series, he has this uh, this little chunk and and it's funny because Daryl himself is like a real right winger, like he's not some lefty hippie or something like that you know what I mean, um but he goes off on this whole thing about how far a recognition and an apology can go and how much that it's like.
[01:11:07]  You know, like look, even say if we were talking about how the um, you know, the Us got land from the native Americans or how much native Americans were mistreated, or something like that.
[01:11:19]  The conclusion isn't necessarily that like oh, we should give all the land back to the native Americans, but your conclusion is certainly like oh, we should recognize that some things that were pretty messed up happened.
[01:11:29]  And for any native Americans who are still around, they ought to have their rights protected and they ought to have full, you know, citizenship and full rights, as every other American has.
[01:11:38]  And it's easy to kind of get caught up in the idea that like oh man, it's just these, there's just been so many atrocities since the creation of the state of Israel and things have been so bad and there's been so much violence and that that you know that it's almost like well, we're just doomed for these people to hate each other forever.
[01:12:00]  But you know, i'll tell you.
[01:12:02]  You know, I mean it's like I went.
[01:12:04]  I went to um uh, last year I went to London and did comedy shows in London and then I jumped on a flight like a half hour flight and went and did comedy shows in Ireland, and like they're right next to each other, you know, and like they're fine and they were fight.
[01:12:23]  They were fighting for so long and so many atrocious.
[01:12:27]  You know, like France and Germany are like real close, they're just right there, you know, and like they went to.
[01:12:32]  They went, you know, in World War One and in World War II and the.
[01:12:35]  You know, and there's like all of these countries, like there's areas where where groups of people did horrific things um to each other and then moved past it and found peace and and how did they do that with property rights?
[01:12:50]  Yes exactly, they basically stopped imposing on each other and the.
[01:12:54]  The truth is that I still, at least I hold out hope that like yeah, like you actually, if you could end this war and just end the occupations and just come to some type of reasonable deal.
[01:13:07]  I don't think that uh, I don't think either side is going to get from the river to the sea.
[01:13:13]  I know that's what the Likud Party wants and I know that's what some uh uh, some Palestinians want.
[01:13:18]  I don't think that's going to happen um, but there, there really could just be like a peace agreement, a real peace agreement, not like the Bs At Camp David or something like that, but there could be a real peace agreement where, like you could, people could just stop doing this and things would be much better.
[01:13:38]  Yeah, I mean uh my, my way of solving this is give both sides from the river to the sea and give everybody from the river to the sea, that's just have a free market and land where anybody can own land and then all the world's uh Jews can just go and buy land.
[01:13:54]  All the world's Arabs, Muslims, Christians can buy land there.
[01:13:58]  And that's it.
[01:13:59]  And it's really not that it's not that complicated.
[01:14:02]  It's what happens in the vast majority of the world.
[01:14:05]  And the difference in Palestine is ultimately that we've never witnessed a situation that allowed Palestinians to just move on.
[01:14:15]  There was never been a situation where the Israelis just said, all right, fine.
[01:14:18]  Listen, we won the war.
[01:14:19]  We're going to do this thing.
[01:14:20]  And then you're going to get that piece of land and that's yours.
[01:14:22]  And it's done.
[01:14:23]  This never happens basically from 1948.
[01:14:25]  And it's never happened in the form of, okay, well, we kicked out a bunch of Palestinians.
[01:14:30]  Now let's work with the remaining Palestinians and have a country together.
[01:14:34]  That worked in 1948 for the Palestinians in 1948.
[01:14:37]  And that's kind of why they are generally getting along with Israeli society because they relatively live off a little bit better, but still, you know, their property rights are violated.
[01:14:48]  So a lot of these Palestinians inside Israel who are Israeli citizens are refugees because their villages were some of the villages that were destroyed.
[01:14:56]  Some of them ran away from their villages and went to some of the larger cities and became Israeli citizens, but they can't go back to their villages.
[01:15:03]  Their villages are still declared military zones.
[01:15:05]  Most of these villages have been demolished.
[01:15:07]  So, I mean, just imagine the amount of logistics it takes in 1949, 1950, 51 to muster enough equipment to go and demolish a village.
[01:15:20]  But that's exactly what they did to make sure that these villages didn't happen so that Israel could control all the strategic area that it could control specifically.
[01:15:29]  So they kept as few Arabs as they could.
[01:15:33]  This couldn't work when they took over the West Bank and Gaza.
[01:15:37]  So we see a return to the same kind of Zionism of the formative years of Israel, which was heavily, heavily influenced by designers of Vladimir Yabotinsky.
[01:15:48]  And these Zionists who were very clear from day one that, look, we need to build an iron wall, colonize as much land as we can, kill locals and move the wall, and just recapture as much of land of Israel as we possibly could.
[01:16:03]  And in their mind, look, there is no limit with the West Bank and Gaza.
[01:16:08]  I mean, they openly talk about Lebanon.
[01:16:09]  They openly talk about, some of them talk about from the Euphrates to the Nile, which is what the Bible mentions, which many people claim, and I think with probably good evidence, that these are what the two blue lines in the flag of the state of Israel represent, the Nile and the Euphrates.
[01:16:27]  And there's definitely a lot of Israelis who just see that.
[01:16:32]  And many of them mention it, that we need to just continue to expand and Greater Israel will come about.
[01:16:37]  So this is what we're dealing with.
[01:16:38]  We're dealing with a situation where people just don't have...
[01:16:41]  Well, we're dealing with an ideology that doesn't have a respect for property rights because it believes in religious stories overriding local property rights.
[01:16:49]  So it doesn't matter that they went to Palestine.
[01:16:51]  They accepted the property system of Palestinians.
[01:16:53]  So they bought land from Palestinians, but they couldn't buy all the land.
[01:16:57]  You can't just buy a country.
[01:16:58]  You buy 5% of a country over 40 years if you've got the Rothschilds and the British Empire helping you.
[01:17:03]  You manage 5%, But you can't really buy the entire thing.
[01:17:08]  And so they knew that they had to resort to violence and they did resort to violence.
[01:17:13]  But we've always had this idea that you can't have property rights independently of ethnicity.
[01:17:18]  And I think this is what Israel apologists miss.
[01:17:21]  So many of them will tell you this.
[01:17:23]  They make this, what I believe is an extremely wrong argument, which is this idea that, well, this is the reality of the world.
[01:17:28]  The world is always about people with guns kill other people and that's how it happens.
[01:17:34]  Well, no, this is the reality of the jungle.
[01:17:37]  And to the extent that we have a world, to the extent that we have a civilization, and I discussed this in depth in my third book, Principles of Economics, the extent to which we are able to move away from jungles and move away from being monkeys in the jungle slinging our own feces at each other is our ability to get rid of that idea that we need to fight over everything and accept the principle of property right and accept that you have your own stuff, I have my own stuff.
[01:18:02]  And then you get to work on making your stuff better.
[01:18:05]  And I get to work on making my things better.
[01:18:07]  So I have better home, better land, better tools, higher productivity.
[01:18:10]  And that's what takes us out of the jungle and allows us to build civilization.
[01:18:13]  So no, we don't fight.
[01:18:15]  This is the exception.
[01:18:16]  This is us going back to the jungle.
[01:18:18]  And this notion that you're just going to think, you know, this modern internet think boy notion that we're just going to sit here enjoying all of the benefits of civilization that make these laptops and internet possible in the first place.
[01:18:30]  And then sit and say, no, no, no, no, actually, the reality of the world is that we're all just a bunch of violent animals fighting each other.
[01:18:37]  No, that's not why you have property right in your house.
[01:18:40]  You don't wake up every morning and wrestle all pretenders to property in your house.
[01:18:44]  It's well accepted in this country that everybody has a property right.
[01:18:46]  And this is really the difference with Native Americans.
[01:18:48]  Native Americans today in the U.S. can own property.
[01:18:52]  That's not the case for Palestinians.
[01:18:54]  This is really what it comes down to.
[01:18:55]  And also, I think, interestingly, this, I think, would probably anger a lot of lefties, but the reality of the matter is that you can't really just say Israel is a colonialist project.
[01:19:05]  You can't really compare it to a lot of the world's colonialist projects and the meaning of colonialism.
[01:19:10]  And, you know, today, obviously, people overplay this term colonialism to refer to everything, just like racism and all of these other isms that are used by leftist opportunists.
[01:19:19]  But realistically, there's a huge difference.
[01:19:23]  White Europeans who showed up in Native America and North America, for the most part, did not deal with a system of private property that existed, which in the case of Palestine existed for 1,300 years.
[01:19:35]  So they went into a land in which you had nomadic tribes that primarily moved around.
[01:19:39]  So if you settled an area that was unsettled, I don't see anything wrong with that.
[01:19:43]  I don't see anything wrong about white people in general that makes them guilty of this.
[01:19:48]  Because for me, a Native American or a white person settling an area and fencing it off and homesteading it is legitimate for anybody.
[01:19:56]  Now, of course, some of these white settlers did horrible things, but this is still very distinct from what's going on in Palestine.
[01:20:04]  What's going on in Palestine is we've had a property rights system for 1,300 years, and it's a very well-respected property rights system that allows anybody from any ethnicity or race or religion to buy land and trade it.
[01:20:14]  And now that's been replaced by a system where a military dictatorship essentially allocates that land to an agency that decides to allocate it to people from one ethnicity only.
[01:20:24]  You think about other colonialisms, like the British colonialist project in India never even in my mind conceivably imagined that we would get rid of Indians and move British people to take over India.
[01:20:35]  That was, as far as I know, I'd never heard of anybody who brought that up.
[01:20:39]  And for the most part, British people had no interest in colonizing Egypt in the same way that Israelis are colonizing Palestine.
[01:20:46]  In Palestine, the idea is we need to get rid of these people.
[01:20:49]  In Egypt, in Algeria, a lot of the traditional property rights system that existed could survive through colonialism.
[01:20:58]  So the colonialists took over the government of the situation, but they still administered property.
[01:21:03]  And the legitimacy of the existing property rights system is what gives any semblance of legitimacy to the government.
[01:21:11]  The fact that this government is out there helping protect your right of property, which everybody in society accepts, is what allows you to accept the idea that, okay, maybe this government thing is legitimate.
[01:21:22]  But if the entire purpose of government is to destroy the existing system of property rights and turn it into some socialist, hellhole, religious, ethno-based system, it's very difficult to argue that that is the good side in a conflict.
[01:21:39]  Yeah, I think you make a very compelling point.
[01:21:43]  And I do think you're right that it is in a different category than traditional colonialism.

=== Enjoying the Bitcoin Standard Podcast (00:57) ===

[01:21:48]  All right, Safe, we're out of time and I got to go.
[01:21:51]  Thank you so much for coming on.
[01:21:52]  I really appreciated it.
[01:21:54]  And it was great to hear your perspective.
[01:21:56]  Let my audience know where they can go, read your great books or listen to your podcast or any of that stuff.
[01:22:02]  So my website is safedean.com, S-A-I-F-E-D-E-A-N.
[01:22:07]  And then have that same handle on Twitter.
[01:22:10]  And also, you can also find my books on Amazon, the Bitcoin Standard, the Fiat Standard, and the Principles of Economics.
[01:22:18]  I highly, highly recommend the Bitcoin Standard was excellent.
[01:22:22]  I really enjoyed reading it.
[01:22:24]  I got to read the other two, but I really did enjoy it.
[01:22:26]  Also, there's my podcast.
[01:22:27]  You guys listen to podcasts, so you might like the Bitcoin Standard podcast.
[01:22:30]  One episode a week, interesting stuff on the intersection of Bitcoin, Palestine, nutrition, climate change, all kinds of heretic thoughts.
[01:22:39]  Very good.
[01:22:40]  That's what our audience is into.
[01:22:42]  All right.
[01:22:42]  Well, thank you very much, Safe.
[01:22:43]  And thank you, everybody, for listening.
[01:22:45]  Catch you next time.