Dave Smith and Rob Bernstein dissect Candace Owens' clash with Rabbi Barclay, arguing that labeling her a "self-hating Jew" for criticizing Israel's Gaza strategy equates opposing government policy with hatred of Jewish people. They condemn Netanyahu's conditional humanitarian aid as justification for civilian starvation in Rafah and reject Barclay's circular logic regarding anti-Semitism. Ultimately, the hosts assert that bad-faith smears are losing efficacy as social media exposes institutional silence on the war's atrocities, signaling a shift where public scrutiny forces major outlets to address the crisis. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Come See Us Live00:01:59
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You're listening to the gas human.
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You're listening to the portal problem on the gas digital network.
Here's your host.
James Smith.
Come see me and Robbie the Fire Bernstein doing some stand-up shows out there in beautiful Key West.
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That's what I say.
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We got a lot of stuff coming up.
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All right.
I'm excited to welcome the Ethiopians.
Yeah, it'll be nice.
It'll be a nice little mix up.
Okay, so I wanted to, I just can't resist talking about this to start the show today.
Self-Hating Jew Claims00:13:59
So Candace Owens had, who I have come to very much admire and respect.
Candace Owens had a conversation with a rabbi named Rabbi Barclay.
He was coming on her show to take her to task for her positions on the war in Gaza basically since October.
It was, I mean, I watched the whole thing and I just, I can't express enough how it was like one of those, it was maddening to watch.
I thought Candace Owens did a very good job.
But it is unbelievable how just dishonest the rabbis' arguments are, as I find the case with so many of the pro-Israel, the loudest pro-Israeli voices.
It does seem, there's a weird thing, Rob, where sometimes, and I've come across this recently with a few different people, but there is this thing where sometimes you realize people are playing a different game than you.
And that, look, we, I think me and you, and I think this is part of the reason why we've built up this show and we've got like a very, we've got a very nice sized audience.
There's shows with bigger audiences than us, but we've got a decent, a decent audience here.
But I think we have a particularly like hardcore audience.
Like we're particularly connected to our audience.
And I think a large part of that is because we have a track record over a decent amount of years now, where look, these have been our positions in real time.
And I think time, unlike almost all of the big issues, I think time has borne out and like it's made us look pretty good.
You look pretty good in hindsight if you were saying in 2016, 2017 that this Trump Russia thing is all a big hoax.
You look pretty good if you were saying we shouldn't have done lockdowns, we shouldn't have funded the war in Ukraine and all this stuff.
So we, but I just say that we might get some things wrong.
I mean, there certainly are things that we've gotten wrong over the last few years, but we're always telling you what we think.
You know, like we're always telling the truth.
And then there's a different group of people who are playing a very different game who are trying to get an outcome that they desire and are quite willing to just lie through their teeth.
And it's very unpleasant when you're playing our game and you come into contact with people playing that game.
It's just, you're like, dude, you know you're full of shit right here.
You don't even believe this.
You're not this stupid.
Like you would have to be so stupid to actually believe this.
You'd have to have like a sub 80 IQ.
And I don't believe that you do.
I can listen to the way you're speaking and you're intelligent enough to not to know that this is bullshit.
That to me defines this conversation.
I was brought up at one point in the conversation.
And so I thought we'd start with that clip.
It's interesting from our perspective.
Of course, as people know, we're both Jewish and we tend to not like war.
We have the radical belief that like, hey, maybe try everything else possible before you just go to war.
But anyway, so from having this perspective, I think it'll be interesting for us to respond to this.
So here, let's play the first clip of Rabbi Barclay.
To say what is anti-Semitic or Jew hatred.
I'm not trying to, I didn't, I don't think I said anything about me having the right.
I just said to you, would you then view, because I did host somebody who is Jewish, Dave Smith, on my show.
I'm sure you're familiar with him.
He's a community.
He's libertarian.
He is not pro-Zionist.
So I'm just asking you for clarity because you're saying that you can't dismiss a Jewish person, but aren't you thereby dismissing Jewish people who say that I don't support Israel as a state?
I'm just trying to have you answer that question.
I will ask you back the same question.
Are there blacks who do not support blacks?
Are there pick the cause or the minority who do not support or not or are actually even better?
You and I both sit on the conservative side politically.
We share that, right?
And we face the same way when it comes to that.
And we both, I think, are disappointed in those who are Republicans name over, right?
Yes.
Okay.
Does that mean they're not Republicans?
Well, I wouldn't describe a race as a political ideology, like a political party.
That's very different.
So to say that you can't be a race, like you're not black if you don't support this is different than like you're basically saying that a Jewish person can't be anti-Semitic.
So that would be like saying a black person can, in fact, be racist towards or they're not black.
I'm not going to comment on black community.
I will say there are plenty of self-hating Jews.
Okay, so you do believe.
That's all I was trying to get you to say is that Jewish people who don't support Israel, you are saying they are anti-Semitic.
I just want to understand that.
I'm saying it very clearly.
They are self-hating Jews.
Let's use that term very specifically.
And you need to understand why they are self-hating Jews.
And you need to understand, as numerous people have talked about, I've written about, Greger's talked about, Gorka's talked about, LeBin's talked about, a number of people have talked about.
Shapiro's talked about.
As I say, I've written about, is that people want to assimilate.
For 2,000 years, Jews have been persecuted.
And so they want to assimilate.
And so many have converted from Judaism, not to another religion, but to leftist politics.
That becomes their religion.
And they lose their identity.
That is a reality.
All right.
So that is actually the argument that he's putting out.
And I do feel, I mean, look, obviously, look, Candace was the one who inserted my name into the conversation, but the guy did clearly call me a self-hating Jew because that's the only way you can take this position.
And so, and he mentions, I love just rattling off the names and this kind of vague appeal to authority.
Like I've written about it, Shapiro's written about it.
Dennis Prager has written about it.
It's like, oh, yeah, everyone who's awful on this topic has agreed with your ridiculous logic, if you can call it logic.
That, okay, so if I say that I think Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people is evil, that means I'm self-hating.
Like, what, like, what is this term?
I hate my, how could I hate myself?
I'm so awesome.
How would it even be possible?
I really actually don't hate myself.
You know, and by the way, I've had moments in my life where I did not have a very good like self-image, but I've actually grown out of that and I'm very happy with myself.
Thank you.
And I don't know even how.
So by the way, it's not even what they mean by self-hating Jews isn't even like, oh, you hate yourself.
What they mean is you hate Jewish people.
And of course, you could see that his, where he follows the logic is that, well, we've been oppressed for so long that all I want to do is assimilate.
And therefore, I've adopted a new religion of leftism because I don't support Israel.
It makes no sense at all.
First off, all the goddamn neoconservatives were Trotskyites at one point.
And then they all come over and call everyone else a leftist.
There's nothing leftist about having a non-interventionist foreign policy.
I reject egalitarianism.
I'm not a leftist.
By the way, there's a lot of leftists in Israel.
It was kind of started as a socialist experiment, but regardless of any of that, but this means that I've, because I just want to assimilate, I like reject Jewish identity or I hate Jewish people or any, none of that follows.
None of it follows from saying the government in Israel is doing something wrong and they should stop doing that.
It just does not follow from that, that therefore I hate my dentist Barry.
It's just ridiculous.
This is what I say.
It's like, I'm sorry, but the fact that you are smart enough to just put this BS argument together and express it the way you did means you're not too stupid to understand why that makes no sense.
That you, sir, like, okay, we're, well, both, Rabbi Barkley, you called me a self-hating Jew.
Okay.
I'm going to call you a liar.
You are a liar.
You don't actually believe that.
You don't believe that.
You're just saying nonsense because your loyalty is to a foreign government and you want to do your best to smear anybody who would dare criticize them.
You're a liar.
I know you're a liar because the alternative is that you have a 75 IQ and that's just not Jewish.
You know what I'm saying?
That's just not how we roll.
So sorry, you, sir, are a liar.
Please come on.
I will go on any public forum with you, anywhere, and we can argue your case here that I hate Jewish people because I'm critical of the government of Israel.
Let's please have that argument.
You can try all your rabbi logic tricks with me.
I will tear them all to shreds.
I got a bunch of things to say on this one, but my starting point would be: if you go back to the first episode on this topic, when Israel came up and the situation came up, I said, I'm not going to comment on this one because I have a pro-Israel bias.
And I said, I don't research the Israel stuff because I know that I'll take a pro-Israel approach.
And when I'm here, I'm very honest with you guys.
So I don't want to be digging into something where I'm just going to be feedback looping and trying to argue for Israel.
So this isn't my topic of interest.
I'm not commenting on it.
And pretty soon after seeing all the things that we were seeing, I was like, eh, Israel's wrong on this one.
I mean, pretty quickly.
So I don't know how he would define self-hating Jew.
Maybe I even fall into that category.
Maybe, I don't know.
Maybe you'd have to define it.
But even if I fell into that category, I started off with a pro-Israel bias.
And then I saw this particular situation and said, hey, what Israel's doing is in the wrong.
And then I think the other dirty trick that he's pulling here is he's saying that Jews want to assimilate in order for their own self-preservation.
And I do think there is an element of looking at the situation over there and going, taking almost the opposite approach of, guys, we've been persecuted for so long.
Why are we being the aggressors in this nasty of a way?
You're taking away any of if you wanted to play the victimhood status game, I think you've totally lost that.
But also if you really wanted to give people an honest reason to criticize Jews, which is that we do use the status that we have within the United States of America to send arms and to seemingly, I mean, I'd go so conspiratorial to say blackmail or otherwise influence our politicians to ensure conspiratorial, yeah.
Yeah, to ensure that Israel has just, you know, cross-the-board support and gets our military gear to go conduct what seems to be attacks on civilians, leading to quite a hunger issue in the area.
So the idea for me to look at that and tell me that I'm self-hating by going, hey, I think what you guys are doing is terrible and is making all of us Jews look bad and perhaps actually create a more dangerous environment for us is you're actually validating anti-Semitic tropes and turning them, turning them true.
That doesn't make me a self-hating Jew to be interested in my own self-preservation to go, hey, don't do, don't go do, don't engage in violence towards innocent civilians because then we're just as bad as everyone else and you're justifying claims for the worst tropes against us.
Yeah.
And, you know, there's a real interesting dynamic there where, so look, I will grant, and look, I don't have like a very tangible way of measuring this.
I see stuff on social media.
I see certainly we've seen worldwide protests against Israel, but I would, I would venture to guess that I do think anti-Semitism is increasing.
And I don't like that.
And so, yeah, if your argument is like, oh, well, that's just your own self-preservation, like, okay.
But like, yeah, I don't, it's, I think it's totally reasonable to not favor seeing a rise in hatred toward your group.
I don't think there's anything like contradictory or wrong about feeling that way.
But it's kind of like in a weird way.
Okay.
So like if I were to, let's say, for example, a bunch of black guys in a neighborhood started just coming around and beating up a bunch of white guys randomly.
And this just kept happening over and over again.
And you go, do you think anti-prejudices, anti-black prejudice, racism against black people is going to go up or down in that situation?
Well, I think anybody who understands human beings would go, it's going to go up.
You're probably going to get more anti-black sentiment if black people are running around beating up a bunch of white people or vice versa.
Right.
And that's not, it's not fair if there's a black guy who had nothing to do with that and somehow he's, you know, fit dealing with racism over something he didn't do.
He's like, I didn't beat anybody up.
I don't believe in beating anybody up.
Right.
There's a couple points here, right?
Okay.
So number one, the mistake, what's different about this analogy, right?
is that if you want to criticize the person who's being racist, let's say, let's say they're just like, man, I hate black people because they keep coming in and beating up people here.
So I hate black people.
Skincare Transformation Mistake00:02:35
Well, like, what mistake is that guy making?
Why is that not, while it is a predictable reaction, you'd go, what mistake is he making?
And the mistake is like what I just said.
It was like, well, you can't blame black people who had nothing to do with that.
Like if they didn't do it, then they're, you can't blame them for that.
So you're equating what a group of black people did to black people in general.
And so you, you could say here in the same sense that that's what people who like say hate Jews as a result of this war in Gaza are doing.
That's unfair, right?
You can't blame Jews who have nothing to do with this.
But the problem here is that the rabbi is committing that same problem, right?
He's saying, if you hate the government of Israel, then you hate Jews.
So he is actually giving them permission to hate all Jews because he's saying, no, I agree with you.
That is Jews.
The government of Israel equals Jews.
They're interchangeable.
And so once you say that, then like you're making the same fundamental mistake that you'd be accusing these guys of making.
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Sadness and Condemnation00:15:33
Now, the other thing is, and I think this is where me and you have, because you've kind of said things over the years to me, to this effect.
And I think that my perspective is like this.
Let's say you're a black guy and you're not in the example I used.
All these black people are randomly beating up white people and then there's a rise in like of hatred toward black people.
And you're one of the black guys.
You're in a position where you're the black guy who's not beating people up.
You know what I mean?
And you, and you don't like the fact that there's this rise in hatred of your people.
Well, I think it's ridiculous for you to just get up there and go, you're all a bunch of racists and hating black people is wrong.
And you're so evil for hating black people.
I don't think that's the correct answer.
I think the first thing to say is to go, hey, look, as a black person, I'm going to stand up and say it's wrong that these black people are beating up all of these white people.
This is wrong and you shouldn't be doing it.
Then you can go ahead and say that second part if you want to.
You know what I mean?
But like, so that's kind of how I feel.
And maybe that's a little bit collectivist in my own sense.
Like I don't have to identify with the people who are doing this just because they have the same religious heritage that I do.
But I do kind of feel that way.
I do feel that it's like, well, no, if we're talking about all these different groups and how different groups of people feel about each other, then kind of it is.
Why don't we at least first say, hey, I do think this thing is wrong and evil and then say, by the way, you know, you shouldn't blame Jews who have nothing to do with that.
To me, that's like a reasonable response.
I have a question for you because I don't want to shoehorn in something here that doesn't actually fit.
But was his, what he initially said, did it kind of have the argument of if you had the lived, if you don't have the live experience, you're not a Jewish person, you're not allowed to comment on this.
Was he kind of saying that?
Or did I?
Okay, so what the, because I watched the whole podcast.
So right before that clip, this is another, dude, I mean, we wouldn't have time to go through every horrible argument he has, but the argument he was making is that, which I've heard from other rabbis, is that the Jewish community will decide what is anti-Semitic.
This is, was his argument in the same way that the black community will decide what's racist and women can decide what's misogynist.
And so if I were to say something to you, Candace, and you said that's misogynist, then my response should be, I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was misogynist.
And I don't get to say it was or it wasn't.
And that's just totally stupid.
So funny, he calls me a leftist after that.
Like, really?
You have that attitude and you're going to call someone else a leftist?
So if I go up to a black guy and I say, I say, good morning, crazy weather we've been having, right?
And he goes, that's racist.
My response is that I can't say, no, it's not.
I have to just say, well, if that's your black lived experience, that it's racist.
I am so sorry for being so racist and talking to you about the weather.
Again, this is just like, it's sub-ADIQ arguments.
Nobody actually believes this.
He's just constructing this thing so that then he can say, I get to say what is anti-Semitic and therefore you are anti-Semitic, which of course is just circular, you know, begging the question logic, a logical fallacy.
But it's like, no, you can't say something is anti-Semitic.
And then your proof that you were right when you said it was anti-Semitic is that you say it's anti-Semitic.
That's not evidence.
That's just circular reasoning.
I hate those style arguments.
I was just seeing a video recently.
I think it was Tyrus from Fox News was on some show and there was a debate about trans people and some guy who was, I guess, gay was trying to get it.
That was the segment before my segment on Piers Morgan.
I actually watched that live before I recorded.
Yeah.
So the guy tried to argue with Tyrus that he's not allowed to have an opinion on this or he was basically saying, do you have anyone in your family who's going through this?
The argument being if you don't, you're not allowed to have an opinion on trans kids.
Now, to me, if you're of that perspective and let's say you have a kid that is transitioning and you want to transition your kid, so would you not see a doctor who would help him in that process if that doctor hadn't gone through that himself?
Yeah.
If your argument is that you can only speak from experience and lived experience, and that's the only...
I'm not going to have some oncologist who's never had cancer from my lived experience.
Right.
The whole thing makes zero sense.
The point is we like, I don't need to have gone through trans to look at it and look at the numbers and go, hey, I don't think kids can.
Now, it happens to be Tyrus kind of fell into that and said, I guess there's someone in his family, which also debunked the guy.
But to me, that's the wrong argument.
It's like, why are we trying to pretend that I can't look foolish?
Because he asked him and then he just goes, yes, I do.
Okay.
So what is, so what now?
No, I'm sorry.
Black people do not get to exclusively decide what is racist and isn't racist.
Jewish people don't get to exclusively decide what is anti-Semitic or not.
Women don't get to decide what is chauvinist or what is not.
Like, that's just not.
No, I'm a free man and I can have opinions about anything I damn well choose to have opinions about.
It's the same, by the way, again, he calls me a leftist, but isn't this the exact argument that the pro-choice left uses?
Right?
That's, oh man, you don't have a say in this, which again, whether you're pro-choice or pro-life or anywhere in between or whatever, you can recognize that's a really stupid argument.
It's just stupid.
Because if the pro-life side is correct, and abortion is murder, then of course anyone should get a say in a murderer.
You know, if you were like, hey, you can't kill people with red hair, it'd be like, well, unless you have red hair, you can't have that opinion.
It's just stupid.
We can have opinions on whatever we want.
Anyway, that was the part that personally enjoyed me.
But if you think that was the worst argument that was made, buckle up for this next clip.
Let's check it out.
And then I want to get to your quotation about academic discussion.
Let's just show what I said about Hamas.
I have seen every single person, including myself, condemn what happened on October 7th.
I have, because who wouldn't condemn terrorism?
It's obviously who would not condemn innocent Israelis dying?
But if you then say that it is also sad when an innocent Palestinian child dies, suddenly this is pro-Hamas, or you need to say, even when you're talking about how sad it is that a child dies, you need to button that statement by saying, but that child was a human shield.
That's not going to be my response.
First off, as a mother, that's not going to be my response as somebody who's about to do to give birth when I see these images of children involved on both sides of the conflict.
I've pointed to the people that are mocking dead Israeli children and said that they are horrific.
I am even keel on this matter.
And yet people think that you need to be extreme.
So people that have become more radical and extreme are perceiving a moderate stance as not enough.
And I was going to say you don't, people can disagree with you or agree with you or whatever, but you certainly don't radical on this topic.
And I'm going to hold here before you comment on that because your next sentence, as you just said, she wanted to talk about the depravities of Hamas as an academic discussion and refused to even condemn Hamas.
So we just saw that I did condemn Hamas.
And regarding the academic discussion.
I'm sorry.
No, you made a moral equivalency between Hamas and Gaza.
I didn't.
There is no moral equivalency.
What Hamas did is evil.
It is not a tragedy only.
It is evil.
I'm sorry, Candace, but you make an equivalency that does not exist in most people's mind and certainly in no Jews' minds.
Okay, so I'm glad that you said that so people can hear what I actually said and hear what you are saying and how you are taking it.
I don't know how you could write the statement, she refused to condemn Hamas when I literally said who would not condemn these horrific events.
You don't condemn them uniquely evil.
You put them in parapursuit relationships.
So you're saying that you're saying that even though I did, so now you're admitting that I did condemn Hamas, even though she refused to condemn Hamas.
What condemnation is?
Is this where you really want to go?
Is having English?
No, no, no.
You wrote, she refused to condemn Hamas.
These are your words.
That's when you put that at the moment.
You say that they have a moral equivalency with anything else.
That's not condemnation.
No matter what.
I didn't.
I said, I said it's sad when an innocent.
It's not condemnation.
And it's not.
Let's ask me a question.
Is it sad?
Is it sad?
I don't want to cut each other off, okay?
Because clearly what we are having here is just a disagreement.
There's no reason to get angry.
Do you think it is sad when an innocent Palestinian child dies?
Candace, I cry every day.
And it's not just for Israel.
And this is one of the things you clearly do not understand.
The same way most don't, who are anti-Semitic, you don't get it.
I cry for what's going on in Israel.
I cry just as much for what we are forced to do.
All right.
So there he goes on and say, I cry just as much for what we are forced to do.
So, okay, so there's like a lot.
So there's a lot to unpack here.
And again, look, Candace plays a video of her where she explicitly says, it's not like it was in an implicit condemnation.
She explicitly says, of course I condemn them.
Who wouldn't condemn them?
It's terrorists.
It's terrorism.
It's innocent Israeli civilians dying.
Of course we condemn that.
But I can also feel sad when a Palestinian baby dies.
That was going to, and then he goes, and his piece that he wrote about her was that she refused to condemn.
This is so black and white.
There's just no argument here.
And so he goes, no, that's not a condemnation.
When you say I condemn them, that's not a condemnation.
And she's like, but I just said it.
And he goes, oh, you want to have a debate on English?
Is this really where you want to take it?
And it's like, no, dude, we're not having a debate on semantics.
The debate is that you are a liar.
That's the point, that you're lying through your teeth.
Not that you mean something different with these words.
And then, of course, they always fall back on this, but you're not condemning it when you make a moral equivalency, which is like, I never, at no point there did Candace say that these things are equivalent.
She never made the argument that, say, like Hamas and the IDF are the equivalent or something like that.
All she said was that it's sad when babies die, which he then, in his performative way, essentially attempts to agree with.
So what's the, his problem is that she, she said, I condemn Hamas, but then he goes, but you didn't condemn them as uniquely evil.
So that doesn't count as a condemnation.
This is all just bullshit semantic tricks.
It's like, no, that would mean you condemned them, but didn't say that they were uniquely evil.
Maybe there's, you don't think it's that unique.
I mean, there's a lot of evil shit going on all around the world.
So I don't know.
Is it uniquely evil?
I think it's as evil as any time you kill innocent people intentionally.
I don't know.
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And then he goes on to this thing where he performatively says that he cries every day for the Palestinians.
The problem is that we've already established you're a liar and you don't cry every day.
And by the way, like, I don't know, I don't cry every day over this war either.
Like, it's just a kind of ridiculous thing to say.
No, you do not.
You do not break down in tears every day.
And then he ends with the final line.
What did he say again?
It's something where he like he quotes the gold of my ear.
Is her name?
You know what I'm talking about, Rob?
The female Israeli prime minister.
She has some awful quote.
It's one of the most evil and like infuriating things ever.
but she was like, we may someday forgive the Palestinians for killing our kids, but we'll never forgive them for making us kill their kids.
It's just like, oh, so stupid.
It's just, it's just ridiculous.
It doesn't, it's like, oh, yeah, I cry every day.
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
I just re-watched that on a plane.
You know that line?
Yeah.
It hurts me more than it hurts you.
What is that from?
It's from Cool Ann Luke.
And he puts the chains on him, but boy, it's for your own good.
Gee, boss, wish you'd quit being so good to me.
Oh, my God.
It's so ridiculous.
It's like, listen, the bottom line is that, no, you don't have to.
You don't have to kill these kids.
You could just stop.
You could stop.
The path you're taking is only going to create more terrorism anyway.
You could just stop.
It's not true that you have to continue doing this.
You could just not drop the bombs.
And I'm not saying if Israel stopped this war tomorrow, there's going to be no terrorism problem.
They're probably going to have a worse terrorism problem than they had before because this type of action ends up making young men want to kill you.
But that doesn't mean they couldn't just, they have a very secure border with Gaza.
They had obviously a big, you know, failure on October 7th, but that is, it is not the case that they could just stop and focus on border security or whatever.
It's not the case that they have to do this.
So again, just a ridiculous argument.
You're watching, I mean, I've quoted this on the show before.
A lot of movie quotes coming from me today, but it's that one of my favorite scenes in The Godfather when they convert the witness to not testifying and then the lawyer starts yelling at the government.
This court owes us an apology because you got to play your lie through to the end.
Even though he's guilty as all hell, the evidence just fell through.
And so what do you do if you're lying?
Well, now they owe you an apology.
You don't just, you don't just walk.
You got to play your lie through to the end.
So, and I'll go to the- So you have to go, how would I react if I was telling the truth here?
Exactly.
So you got to play it through.
And so to this rabbi, and I guess I'm taking, I'm going a little bit further than Candace Owens here.
Israel is justified in its killing of innocent civilians in Gaza because it's necessary for their own safety.
And so he sees the killing of the civilians as being justified.
And so therefore, condemning either behavior groups Israel's killing in as being as being horrible, the same as what Hamas did.
And so that's not fair for you to say.
And I think our entire argument is, no, Israel has no right to kill innocent civilians.
It's just as bad when Israel's doing it.
Now, is it just as gruesome?
Is it considered terrorism?
Evil Acts Against Palestinians00:09:42
Do they do it in a nicer way because it's through bombs and starvation and government action?
All right.
You're still killing innocent civilians.
I don't know what you want to be in an argument of what's worse.
Well, look, what some of the they'll say is that, yeah, but it comes down to intentions.
And they go, you know, Hamas's intention was to go kill innocent people.
And our intention is to get back Hamas and some innocent people die in the process.
And so that's why it's better.
That's why it's different in kind.
The problem is that...
If I fire a gun into a crowded park because I like hearing my gun fire, does it matter that my intention was not to kill people?
Exactly.
See, now that this argument falls apart because, look, when you're talking about intentions, and okay, to be clear here, there would be somewhat of an argument for that if Israel was performing the most surgical of strikes on, you know, like on a Hamas organization, you know, like some type of Hamas compound.
And like there were very minimal, but there were a few, you know, like casualties and something like that.
And they knew these Hamas people were planning further attacks.
And they're like, look, this is just different.
This is different in kind here because we are doing our absolute best here to not have innocent people die and they were intentionally trying to kill innocent people.
Now, you could still even in that situation say, you know, from the perspective of the family of that innocent person who was killed, it really doesn't matter to you whether they were killed for this reason or that reason, but you could at least make a claim.
The problem is that's not what Israel's doing here.
Israel immediately turned off the water and electricity to 2 million people.
This wasn't some thing where we were trying to do everything we could to avoid innocent people getting hurt.
And then this, they're mowing people down as they go to try to receive aid packages.
It's just like, it's like, there's, it's just completely indefensible.
It's not true at all.
And no, so when if you have a building where you know there are innocent civilians there, but you suspect that there might be a Hamas guy there.
And so you're going to blow up the building, knowingly kill those innocent people on the hunch that maybe you'll get one of the Hamas guys too.
No, then you're in a whole different world where it's like, ah, your intentions are just as bad.
Those intentions, I'm sorry, are just indefensible.
I would say maybe one final thought on this from my perspective here, because I am, as I've mentioned before, look, like first and foremost, I think it's just evil what Israel is doing right now.
And I think a lot of what they've done to Palestinians since the beginning of their country has been evil and inexcusable.
So that's like number one.
But I will say that, yeah, like I mentioned before, I don't like seeing a rise in people hating my people.
And I don't, I think it's stupid and it's not fair.
It's wrong.
And I think that there's lots of Jews like myself, but there's far more, far smarter and more prominent ones who are some of the biggest critics of the government of Israel.
And so, and I don't think it's fair to blame all Jews for that.
But just imagine, and this is one of the things that makes me so angry is that maybe you do see a rise in people, you know, kind of like just general Jew hating language rhetoric.
And then, but then here you have someone in Candace Owens who is not that.
And in fact, is bending over backward, going out of her way to make sure that you recognize that she's not that.
She's like, no, of course it's horrible when anyone, then Israeli citizens die.
And of course, in my conversation with her when I did her podcast, she went over and over again how like, she's like, I've always just been friends with like all my friends are Jews.
Like I had a mezuzah on my door once because my roommate was Jewish and I always have been to more bot mitzvahs than I could count.
And she goes, and I still love all these people.
Like I love, I don't have anything against Jewish people.
I just, I, I, this, I have a feeling as a mother when I see all these babies getting killed.
And I think that's wrong.
And blah, blah.
So it's like when someone isn't responding like that, they aren't just, you know what I mean?
So in other words, to my example of a bunch of black people start beating up a bunch of white people in your town.
And I was saying, if you're another black guy there, and then there's a rise in racism and you just sit there and you're lecturing them for being racist.
And I was like, yeah, well, maybe you should condemn them beating up too.
You know what I mean?
But now it's not even that.
Now you're a black guy in the situation and some white guy rises up and says, hey, I don't blame all black people for this, but the black people who are beating people up, that's really like not right.
And now a black guy is going, you're racist.
Like think about how ridiculous that is.
You're going after the person who's actually very delicately and intentionally not being a bigot about the situation.
It's just, you know, I'll tell you, Rob, I kind of threw this out there, I think, on one of the last episodes, but sometimes you do wonder if these guys' goals is to create more Jew hatred in the world.
There is this weird symbiotic relationship.
And I think, did I talk about that on the podcast?
I mentioned the thing about the Stern gang trying to join with the Nazis, right?
And the Nazis just wouldn't.
I think that was when we were just hanging out in the green room.
I don't think that was on the show.
Oh, were we just, yeah, so, okay, so the before the creation of Israel, there was a bunch of militias in Israel.
And I'm sorry, shouldn't say in Israel before the creation of the state of Israel.
The Zionist settlers in Palestine had grown these badass militias.
And this is why, you know, by the way, when everybody, you know, the official narrative where you're like, the Jews, this tiny little state of people, you know, declared their independence in 1948, and then they were immediately attacked by every surrounding Arab country, but they won.
They won the war.
And you're like, right away on its face, you'd go, wait, how?
How did they win?
Multiple countries attacked this brand new country?
And the answer is because they basically already had a military day one.
And they had it for years, the Haganah and all these different militias that were, you know, they were real hardcore, badass motherfuckers, and they had international financing.
And they were, so that's why they, that's why they fucked up all these Arab countries that basically didn't have any type of impressive military capabilities.
And so anyway, so one of these militias before the creation of the state of Israel was known as the Stern Gang.
And they were not one of the biggest ones.
They were one of the smaller militias, but they were known for being like the most vicious.
And they were driving a lot of the terrorism before the creation of the state of Israel.
The Jews were the terrorists and they were trying to drive the British out.
And so what's interesting is that the Stern gang tried to join up with the Nazis during World War II.
And essentially the only reason it didn't happen is because the Nazis just really didn't like Jews.
And like they were just not going to work together.
The joke we were making, I think, in the green room was that Adolf Hitler was like, I'd love to, but think of the PR nightmare it would be in working with a bunch of Jews.
How's that going to look for me?
That's my whole.
So anyway, but the reason why they wanted to join with them is because in this weird way, which I'm sure you could probably think of examples like this, there are these weird incentives where people on the kind of the polar opposite side are actually incentivized by their counterpart on the opposite side to grow in number.
And so you could see where, look, the Zionist project was trying to convince all the Jews in the world to come to Palestine so they could create a Jewish homeland there.
And Adolf Hitler is telling all of the Jews to get the hell out of Europe.
And you could see where, even though they're coming at it from very different perspectives, they're kind of like, oh, we actually both have the same goal here.
And I think that's, that's at least in part why the Stern gang was interested in joining and allying with the Nazis.
And the other part was that they wanted to drive the British out and Hitler was going to war with Britain.
So it just, there's, but in the same sense that, you know, at the Southern Poverty Law Center, when they see Charlottesville happening, just tell me, give me your honest opinion, Rob.
Do you think when the march in Charlottesville in 2017 happens, do you think everyone at the Southern Poverty Law Center is horrified and crying and upset?
Or are they like, yes, yes.
Oh, this is so good for our budget.
Oh, this is so good for, oh, I just got my next 10 articles written.
Oh, this is, you know what I'm saying?
Like, it's kind of in their interest for there to be a racism problem or an anti-Semitism problem, because if there wasn't one, then they have no reason to exist anymore.
And likewise, it does seem like some of these guys like Shmooley and Barclay, I don't know, but it seems like, number one, they benefit from there being people who hate Jews because then they can point to something.
Backscape Promo Code00:02:10
There's a conflict of interest of them going out in public and being unlikable Jews because then they get to manifest their own anti-Semitism that then they can get fundraising to try and combat.
I mean, I'm just saying, I don't know for sure, but yeah, kind of something along those lines.
I'm saying like it does seem, dude, when you have Rabbi Shmooley up there and he's like, he's like, anyone who disagrees with me is an anti-Semite.
And also I'm selling butt plugs with my daughter.
And you're like, it sure seems like that's your goal.
Why would nobody else, why would any of these other Jewish organizations ever allow him to be like put in this position?
Wouldn't they all be like, oh my God, this is going to get, this is going to just lead to everyone hating us?
It's a little strange.
It's a little strange to me.
That's all I'm saying.
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Netanyahu Defines Military Zones00:04:38
I think it might be worth showing that Netanyahu tweet in response to the criticisms of what's going on in Rafah with the starvation problem.
Sure.
Do you want to pull that up, Brian?
I don't think I saw this.
Well, you'll instantly see the problem with it.
All right.
Let's see.
Go to Benjamin Netanyahu's Twitter.
How far back was this?
It was in the emails.
It's in the Zero Hedge article.
The subject line is Biden administration criticism of Gaza.
Okay.
Okay.
So here it is.
Benjamin Netanyahu says, I spoke tonight with the President of the United States, Joe Biden.
We talked about the latest developments in the war, including Israel's commitment to achieve all the goals of the war, the elimination of Hamas, the release of all of our hostages, and the promise that Gaza will no longer pose a threat to Israel while providing the necessary humanitarian aid that helps achieve these goals.
So to me, the problem with that is providing the necessary humanitarian aid that achieves these goals.
So that could be zero.
If your goal is, you're not actually talking about helping people or caring about people.
You're saying that your goal is to uproot Hamas.
And so if the humanitarian aid to make that happen is bombing civilians, then that's in line with your goal.
There's literally no evil that you could prep not like that you can't justify if your goal is just, hey, I have to get rid of this and I don't care what the other consequences are.
That's not humanitarian.
Yeah.
Well, right.
And it's also, you know, they intentionally set up these unachievable goals and then it just becomes an excuse to keep the war going, you know?
So like it's, it's at the beginning of, and not even at the beginning, all through the war in Ukraine, when you'd have U.S. officials saying all territory, including Crimea, has to be returned to Ukraine.
It's like, oh, well, if that's the standard, then the war never ends because that's never going to happen.
Vladimir Putin isn't giving up his only year-long warm water port back to Ukraine.
He's never gave it up.
They've had control of it the entire time, the entire history of the Soviet Union and post-Soviet Union.
Russia's always had the Sevestopol naval base in Crimea.
They're not giving that up.
The reason they took it is because they felt threatened that Ukraine might actually say, you can't have it anymore, because they had allowed that to be technically Ukrainian territory.
But there's no chance it's going to happen.
And likewise, you know, you say something like, until Hamas is completely defeated.
And you go, okay, but what does that mean?
If there's one person in Gaza who says I'm Hamas, like the standard is basically that after being occupied slash blockaded since 1967, and then after this war that has last I read destroyed 70% of the residential homes in Gaza City, where tens of thousands of people are dead, hundreds of thousands are on the brink of starvation.
Like after all of this chaos, cities turned into rubble, after all of this, they have to be Sweden.
Like I have to clap my, you know, snap my fingers and there's no terrorists here at all.
That's the standard.
They pose no threat, he says to Israel.
Well, who gets to decide whether they pose a threat or not?
Oh, by the way, you know the answer?
Benjamin Netanyahu.
That's who gets to decide.
And this is how they've always operated.
This is how they always operated.
If you listen to, there's that famous secret recording of Benjamin Netanyahu, where he's bragging about how easy it is for him to move America.
And then he's also bragging about the poison pills that he put in the peace plan.
And that he was like, he's like, because they're kind of like, oh, but we're making these concessions and the peace process as it was referred to in the 90s.
And he goes, he's like, don't worry about it.
Listen, the way it's set up, it's like, oh, you know, Israel can only regulate military zones, but I get to define what a military zone is.
And so I define all of the West Bank as a military zone.
You know what I mean?
And he was basically saying that we've already put these poison pills in here where it sounds like we're offering something, but we're not really offering anything.
So don't worry because we're not offering anything.
Calling Me a Propagandist00:04:37
And that's the same thing this is.
It's the same as that.
Oh, don't worry.
Here's no, here's the parameters, you know?
We're going to accomplish this until there's no, until there's not one young man in Gaza who isn't trying to kill us for what we just did to his family.
And as soon as I say they're not a threat to us, that's when the war has been, that's when mission is accomplished.
And by the way, in the meantime, we're committed to giving them as much aid as I feel like.
And by the way, if the U.S. sends them aid, we may mow them down as they run out there to try to get it.
That's what we're that's what we're dealing with here.
And it is really just it's unconscionable.
And that's, that's that.
And I don't know.
I don't think it's, I, I don't, I don't think there's anything wrong with just saying that, that this is, this is horrible and these standards are totally unreasonable.
And if, you know, the Rabbi Barclay is going to say that that means that I hate my mom or something like that.
That means, that means that I hate my co-host and my, you know, I guess I also hate all of the libertarian intellectuals who formed libertarianism.
There's been quite a lot of them, Mises and Rothbard and the like.
You know, the idea that any of that follows from just being opposed to this government and these specific government actions is stupid.
I really will, man.
This Rabbi Barclay, I mean, he's not a, he's not like a person who's in the public very much.
And hey, you want to come on the show?
Happy to host you anytime.
I'll go on a neutral forum or whatever you want to do.
Come bring any of these arguments to me.
Let's see how they how they hold up.
I won't be holding my breath.
I have no interest in said conversation.
Well, I get to enough of these characters in my youth.
You have fun with it.
Well, I get your point because it's like it's.
I'm finally free.
There is something where I do understand.
I don't know.
I'm in a little bit different of a situation, but I understand your point too.
I do understand where there's people who just don't want to debate these type of bad faith actors because it is just like a weird thing when you're just like, yeah, dude, you're lying.
You know you're lying.
I know you're lying.
You know, I know, you know.
You know what I mean?
Like all that.
Like we, we both know what's going on here.
You're not telling the truth.
And that's okay because your job isn't, you're not somebody who's seeking the truth.
You're not somebody who believes in something passionately and wants to convince others that this is important and that they're correct.
You're just, you're a propagandist.
You're literally going, I got to get on here.
And the outcome is I demonize anyone who dare criticize the Israeli government, that you make sure, and this has been a strategy for a very long time, but you make sure that there's a price to pay.
There's a price to be paid for criticizing Israel.
You will get labeled with all of these like vicious smears.
And unfortunately, I think for too long, that was too effective.
I do think it's waning in its efficacy.
I think that a lot more people have woken up to the idea that it's like, well, I guess I'm just going to have to take being called the name because you'll call me the name no matter what anyway.
So fine, I'll get called it.
But there is, it still does have a level of effect because human beings naturally, I think, are very hesitant to be ostracized.
You know, I'm sure there's something very deep rooted in us genetically that that's a very dangerous thing to be ostracized.
I'm sure for much of human history, that essentially was a death sentence, you know, and so it's something that we inherently don't want.
And that's basically the game that guys like that are playing, is that we're going to make you feel like you are being ostracized if you dare speak up and tell the truth, which is like that this is wrong.
It's really that simple.
Then this is not working out well for Israel.
I mean, they are totally losing the propaganda war on this one.
So we'll see.
From Praja Wall Street Journal and New York Times today was about the starvation problem currently going on in Rafa.
Institutions Can't Ignore Stories00:00:58
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's just, and these institutions are, they're in a position where they can't really ignore these stories the way they may have in years past because everyone's watching it on social media.
So when everyone's seeing it, what are they going to do?
Pretend it's not happening?
That's just not feasible.
All right.
We're going to wrap our show up there.
Thank you guys very much for listening.
Don't forget to come catch me and Rob in beautiful Key West.
Really looking forward to that.
We'll be down there tomorrow night, Wednesday through Saturday.
And then as I mentioned before, we got Portland coming up.
We got, hold on, let me read it off.
Portland, then St. Louis, then Tacoma, Washington, then Spokane, Washington, Atlantic City, Nashville, Tennessee, all coming up very soon.
ComicDaveSmith.com for all those ticket links.
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