James Smith hosts the Christmas episode of Part Of The Problem, reflecting on post-pandemic gatherings before critiquing Douglas Murray's viral debate with Cenk Uygur regarding Israel's actions in Gaza. Smith dismantles Murray's claims that Israel avoids genocide by choice and rejects the comparison of missing Jewish versus dog posters as dishonest context for mass slaughter. Addressing Murray's assertion that Israel offered a state in 2005, Smith highlights the contradiction with Murray's denial of Palestinian statehood due to leadership refusal, while also refuting accusations of selective outrage by citing Uygur's advocacy for Uyghurs and Afghans. Ultimately, the discussion underscores the complexity of justifying conflict through tax-funded support rather than moral equivalence. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Merry Christmas from the Host00:01:22
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Here's your host, James Smith.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem, a very special Christmas episode of Part of the Problem.
I don't actually know if it's very special, but it is about to be Christmas.
And so I figured I'd start with that.
Robbie is out doing shows.
Brian, our producer, is out doing Christmas stuff.
G-Mike was kind enough to fill in to produce this episode.
So this will be a little bit shorter of an episode, but I wanted to get something out for you guys for Christmas and get our third episode for the week out.
So let me start by just saying Merry Christmas to everybody.
And I hope everybody has a good time.
I hope you are around your family and your loved ones and you have some well-deserved time with people you love where you're having some fun.
Holiday Hope for Everyone00:05:31
And I think that's really important.
You know, one of the things I've been thinking about over the last few days, as we've been, it's been kind of like the week leading up to Christmas is what I mentioned on the last episode.
Now, I double-checked this, by the way.
I'm right about it.
This is the first Christmas in the last three years where Dr. Fauci has not advised against people having Christmas.
And that, you know, last year it was not as strong as the previous years, but he was still like going off about how like, you know, if your family's not vaccinated, you don't want to have them over or do it outside and have a mask on.
And it's just insanity.
And I was thinking about how like for years in 2020, 2021, 2022, how they would tell people not to have Thanksgiving and not to have Christmas and all of these things.
And, you know, I'm somebody who, as embarrassing as this is to say, I was at one point in my life, I was younger, but I was a somewhat militant atheist.
And, you know, I used to have this attitude that like, well, you know, you can't prove that any religion is real and all of this is just kind of a superstition.
So why would we, you know, like, it's embarrassing to look back on.
But as I've gotten older and especially now having little kids, you kind of realize that actually things like holidays are the most important thing in the human experience.
You know, even back in, you can look through almost every civilization.
If you look back at like ancient Rome, they used to have these feasts and like these holidays and celebrations.
And if you could try to imagine what it was like to live in ancient Rome compared to the lives we have.
I mean, imagine living in a time before, forget electricity.
That's not even a thought, but before plumbing and, you know, any type of machinery that we have today.
I mean, how grueling life was, how hard it was just to like, you know, produce enough food so that people didn't all starve to death to, you know, to survive through winters.
You know, you're living in a life where when you went into a winter, if you had seven or eight kids, you may not come out with seven or eight kids.
You know, like that's how real shit was.
And even then, they would still have these days where they had huge feasts and celebrations and things like that.
And I, I don't think that's because they were stupid.
I don't think that's because they were like, it's like, you know, like if you were just a computer running things through a machine, you'd be like, it's not smart to eat a lot of food on this one day when you might be food insecure on other days.
But I don't think it's because they were stupid.
I think it's because that's part of what it is to be human is that you need something to look forward to.
You need a moment to celebrate.
You kind of need that.
And even in our modern society where we do have so much abundance that we take for granted, I think we still need that.
Basically, that's my point.
And I think that, you know, I hope people appreciate that.
I think that the years of COVID restrictions probably made a lot of people appreciate that more than they otherwise would have.
That it is really important to have those moments when you're just around the people you love and enjoying things.
And I'll tell you, you know, over the last couple of days, seeing how excited my kids are, particularly my daughter, because she's old enough to get it.
You know, I have a five and a two year old.
And, you know, the two year old doesn't exactly understand what's happening, but my five year old certainly does.
But he still gets into like a lot of the things.
And it seeing how excited they get for this big celebration and to see all of their family and stuff like that, it's just made me realize a lot that, yeah, this is what it's all about.
This is, you know, all the other kind of, all the monotony of other, you know, things that you do throughout your year.
This is kind of what it's about to have these moments where you have celebration, you're around people you love and you kind of just like kick back and have a good time.
So anyway, I hope everybody appreciates that and I hope everybody enjoys their holidays.
And yeah, okay.
So here's what I wanted to talk about today.
I have a topic on in my mind that I thought would be a good thing to talk about on this episode where it's just me.
So as everybody knows, there is a war going on in Israel.
And or rather, there's a war going on in Gaza, really.
But there's a war between the Israelis and the Palestinians in Gaza.
The Genocide Debate Explained00:15:01
And I have found myself in the position, I shouldn't say found myself, I've put myself in the position of being somebody who's talked about this quite publicly.
So this, the latest, you know, I wouldn't say the war started on October 7th, but the latest round of this war started on October 7th.
And October 7th is not that long ago.
It was October, November, and now we're in December.
And since that event, that horrific terrorist attack on October 7th, I have done a lot of shows, not just this podcast, but I've done a lot of other shows where I've talked about this.
Of course, I did the biggest show in the world, the Joe Rogan experience, since then.
And we talked a lot about the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
And I've done a bunch of debates.
I debated the, so I debated the first one was with, okay, so the first one was with Ben.
I debated Ben and then I debated Austin Peterson.
I debated Laura Loomer.
I most recently debated Will Chamberlain.
And I guess you could say I debated Noam, the comedy seller owner.
I don't know if you would call that a debate as much as just like a, you know, like we talked about a lot of different things in the episode, but it was more of a like, it was more of a like a gotcha episode where he tried to get me on every single thing.
But part of the show was on the on debating the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
So it was Ben Dominic, Austin Peterson, Laura Loomer, Will Chamberlain, and yeah, and Noam, I guess, would be in there.
And so all of the, I will say I felt like I won every one of the debates.
I felt like every one of them was a win.
And the overwhelming reaction from the audience was that it was, that I basically won all of these debates.
Now, some of them more so than others.
Probably Ben Dominic and Will Chamberlain did the best job.
Although the audience still seemed to be largely in my favor and I still kind of felt like I won those, but they put up reasonable arguments.
The Austin Peterson and Laura Loomer debate, the general consensus, and I would agree with it, was that they just got destroyed.
And the Noam thing, the general consensus was just that he was not good.
So I've done a lot of these debates now and I talked about it on Rogan's podcast.
I talked about it on Tim Poole's podcast.
So I've done a lot of big shows and my show, which this show, which is, you know, has a decent audience.
So I've been talking about this a lot.
And, okay, so over the last two days, I have gotten, I've been absolutely flooded with calls to debate Douglas Murray on this topic.
And this, I guess, is because he was on a Piers Morgan show and he had a debate with Jank Uger from the Young Turks.
And this has gone, I mean, just viral is an understatement.
Just millions and millions of views on this debate across different platforms.
And a lot of people have, I guess the people who are on the more pro-Israel side have been like, okay, this is the guy now.
We want you to debate him because they feel like this is the guy who could get a win over me.
Like, you know, they're like, okay, you've won these other debates, but you haven't debated the guy who could get you.
And that's who this is.
And I certainly understand where they're coming from.
He is a very talented orator and he's, you know, I get where people would want that.
As I said, I've been challenged many times.
I have already posted on Twitter, but I'm quite happy to do it.
I accept the challenge, although it's challenge obviously isn't coming from him.
But if he wants to, I'm down to do this whenever we can set it up and we can make it happen.
Anyway, he debated Jank Uger on Piers Morgan's show the other day.
I will start.
Let me start by saying this.
Number one, I have nothing against Douglas Murray.
I think we have a couple of mutual friends and I've seen things of his that I very much agreed with and enjoyed.
He's the type of guy where if he's on your side on an issue, you're very happy to have him arguing on your side because he's very good at what he does.
Jank Uger, on the other hand, is a guy who, if he's on your side of an issue, you're like, please, dear God, do not let him be the representative for my point of view.
So I think that Jank Uger did not do a good job in their debate.
And he has this tendency to just scream one word insults at whoever he's debating.
You know, like, you're a racist.
And that's kind of his thing.
I don't understand how he's gotten to be as popular as he has, but whatever.
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All right, let's get back into the show.
Anyway, but so there have been these, there's been a couple clips that have gone super viral where they're like, look, here is Murray destroying the case against what Israel is doing.
And, you know, here he's destroying Jank Uger.
And the people who are on the pro-Israel side seem to be very, very happy with what he's done.
So as I said, I'm happy to do this debate.
We could set it up.
We could, you know, and whoever wants to moderate it, I'm very open.
I'll whoever you want to have, I'm down to do this.
But I thought for this episode, we would play a couple of the clips.
I would respond to them and then we can all have a Merry Christmas.
So I got two clips that are kind of longer clips here.
Let's go to the first one and let's break it.
Let's start from the beginning, Mike.
And we'll respond to some of this.
Several things.
First of all, anyone who uses the term genocide in this context simply doesn't know what they're talking about, always a malevolent actor.
I don't know if Mr. Uyghurs traveled at all in his life, how far he's traveled, how many conflicts he's seen, but I'd have guessed none.
And you clearly know nothing about this particular conflict, and you've obviously seen none of it.
The genocide that you describe is such a smear and a libel against the Jewish state.
If Israel wanted to commit genocide, I'm sure it could, but it doesn't.
It doesn't remotely want to.
And people like you and other pro-Palestinian propagandists have spent years claiming that Israel is committing genocide in the Gaza.
By the way, the weirdest thing about this claim is that the population of the Gaza has grown by a million in the last 15 or so years.
So if Israel was trying to carry out a genocide, it's either the worst perpetrator of genocide ever or uniquely poor at performing that task.
None of the stats support that ridiculous claim.
It's such a weird smear and a libel of Israel.
Secondly, of course, you've just rattled off Hamas figures, as everyone of your kind always does.
Thirdly, you said that the world cried the world cried.
You said, you said the people like you who cover for the Palestinian extremists.
Thirdly, you said that the world cried out for the 30th.
So let's pause for a second.
Right here.
So these videos that I'm playing you, by the way, everyone is sharing with me and saying, oh my God, Douglas Murray just wrecked this guy, just totally destroyed him.
And I'm watching these clips and I'm like, but he said nothing.
He said nothing.
I mean, look, in his defense, Jank does not do a good job arguing this point.
And if you've noticed, if you've listened to any of my shows or any time, any of the other big shows that I mentioned, going on Rogan or Tim Poole or any of these, I have not, I don't call it a genocide.
And the reason I don't call it a genocide is because I think the term genocide is overused, is ill-defined, and it evokes a certain image in people's minds.
It's also why I have a problem when people call the Chinese guilty of committing a genocide against the Uyghurs, because, you know, what it makes you think of when you hear genocide is Adolf Hitler, the Holocaust, or the Armenian genocide, or something like that.
And so, but regardless of that, you see how so, so Douglas Murray's points so far are that you haven't been there.
And if Israel wanted to kill everybody, they could, but they don't.
So, haha, I got you.
But what does that really mean?
Like, imagine, you know, imagine you ran into a room and you had a machine gun.
And there are 70 people there, 70 people in the room, all innocent people, and you killed five of them.
And someone went, oh my God, you've killed five of these people.
And maybe even they used a word like genocide when they shouldn't have.
And you went, well, hey, I got this machine gun.
I could have killed all 70 of these people, but I didn't.
So isn't that proof that I'm not just trying to kill everybody?
It's like, no, not really.
It's still fucking horrible that you killed these five.
You know what I mean?
So it doesn't prove anything to go Israel could just kill everyone in Gaza, but they don't.
So aren't they great people?
No, that doesn't follow.
And why they don't kill every person in Gaza, I mean, I don't know.
There's lots of different reasons for why that could be.
Perhaps it's that they know they couldn't get away with that and that they know that the entire world would turn on them and that even the United States of America wouldn't be able to defend them doing that and that they would cease to exist because the entire world would rise up against them.
You know, it's not like that's that's not evidence of anything.
It doesn't prove anything.
It's literally on the level of defending a mass murderer and going, yeah, but he could have killed more people and he didn't.
Okay.
So what?
That's not, that's not what counts.
What counts is, do you have a right to kill the people you're killing?
That's the question that matters.
So anyway, let's keep playing.
And you know that very well.
You know that very well.
If you put up a poster to a missing dog in any Western city, that poster stays up.
In city after city in America, posters of abducted Jewish children, including a 10-month-year-old baby, were put up and were ripped down by people who have been indoctrinated into hate of Jews.
Nobody would rip down the poster of a missing dog.
But true.
So let's pause it there.
All right.
So here, Mr. Murray's point is that if you look, if you put up a poster of a missing dog, it stays up.
But when you put up these posters of these missing Israelis from, he says from Dublin to Berkeley, they get ripped down.
And let me just say that I don't like people ripping these posters down.
And it definitely, it makes me a little bit queasy when they do that.
And, you know, I couldn't imagine myself ever ripping down one of these posters.
Or if someone was doing that, being in that group, I'd be like, eh, that's, that's weird.
And I don't know exactly what message that's sending.
And I'm not defending the motives of every single person who's ever ripped down one of these posters.
And, you know, it's a weird thing.
You know, you got posters of like little kids or women who have been held, you know, have been taken as hostages and you're ripping them down.
Why Giving a State Fails00:15:29
Yeah, I get it.
I don't like that either.
However, you know, when you put up a poster of a missing dog, it tends to be in the general vicinity of where that dog went missing.
You get what I'm saying?
Like if a dog goes missing in Brooklyn, you don't tend to put up a poster of that dog in Amsterdam.
You know what I mean?
Because the point of the poster is to try to let people in that area know, hey, keep your eyes out.
If this dog is missing and you see a dog, just so you know, that's my dog.
Maybe there's a reward for if you return them.
That's kind of how these posters go.
And let's just say hypothetically that a dog went missing in Amsterdam.
And as a response to that dog going missing, we're going to murder a bunch of innocent people in Ireland, right?
We're going to kill a bunch of people in a not too far off neighboring country because, well, there's a little bit of a, there's a little bit of water to get through, but you know, they're pretty close.
But use whatever countries you want as an example.
But so they're murdering a bunch of people in response to that poster.
And then you put that or in response to that dog being missing.
And then you put a poster of that up in Portland.
And people are like ripping it down, like, fuck you.
fuck this excuse for going and murdering all these people.
Do you get my point?
It's just a little bit different.
And I'm not defending anyone who rips those posters down, but it's like, come on, dude.
That is not actually a good point.
And I understand that he's saying this with a lot of confidence behind it.
And he's a very smart guy and he's putting it in, you know, in a well-spoken way, but that actually isn't that good of a point.
Because it's just very different.
People are not posting up posters of the hostages that have been taken by Hamas in Gaza because there's any point of, it's not helping find them.
It's a statement of some sort.
And while Gaza is being leveled, you can understand where some people reject that statement.
It's just more complicated than saying, well, if you put up a poster of a missing dog, that would stay up.
But when it's a missing Jew, they tear it down.
You know what I'm saying?
It's dishonest what he's doing here.
That's not the difference.
The difference isn't that people care about dogs more than they care about Jews, which is what he's trying to make it sound like.
But that's not what's really going on here.
What's really going on here is that in response to this terrorist attack, Israel is just mass slaughtering innocent women and children in Gaza.
And that these putting up these, you know, flyers or posters or whatever about the hostages is becoming a justification for that.
And so that's what people are responding to.
Now, again, I'm not saying they're right.
I wouldn't do that.
There's something to me where, look, people really were killed on October 7th and hostages really were taken.
And I, as I've said, since this happened, you know, like when I see those kids who died on October 7th, I see my own kids and their faces.
I would never be able to rip down a poster of one of those, you know, with some of those kids up there.
The difference is that I also see my kids' faces and all those kids who are dying in Gaza.
And I think that's what people are responding to.
Like if you're trying to be fair here and give the most charitable interpretation of what's going on, it's not fair to just say, oh, well, a missing dog poster stays up.
And in fact, if we're talking about missing dog posters, how would you feel?
Forget, obviously you wouldn't tear it down or whatever, but how would you feel if there was a missing dog in Brooklyn and I put up a poster for it in Belgium?
Like, I'm not saying you would tear it down, but wouldn't you be like, why the fuck is that up here?
Like, what?
How is this going to help the situation?
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But from Dublin to Berkeley, they ripped down posters of abducted Jewish children.
So, no, I don't think there was a problem.
Let me put this to you, Laddie.
Let me put this to you, Donas.
Quickly.
Let me make two other very quick points.
Firstly, you said what Hamaz might do as if it was some kind of hypothetical.
Hamaz showed what they do, what they want to do.
It showed it on October the 7th.
And its leadership, as I'm sure you very well know, said that they would like to repeat that again and again until they have got rid of every Jew.
So I don't know.
I would trust Hamaz's word on that rather than your interpretation of what you think they mean when they say that and your generous interpretation of what you think that means.
And finally, as for preventing a Palestinian state, it is nonsense that the Israelis have prevented a Palestinian state.
They gave the Gazans a Palestinian state in 2005.
They gave them a Palestinian state in 2005 when every Jewish person was ripped from their homes in the Gaza by IDF soldiers.
And the Palestinian people were given a state.
And what did they do?
They voted in Hamas, who then killed their fellow Palestinians, never had another election, and used all the billions of dollars of taxpayer funds from the US, UK, and Europe to build terror tunnels and to enrich themselves so they could live the life of luxury and Qatar.
Again and again, the reason there is not a Palestinian state is because the Palestinian leadership doesn't want one.
Okay, it preferred war and it doesn't want one now.
It's an interesting claim that Douglas Murray makes here, where he says they gave the Palestinians a state in 2005.
So he's saying they gave them a state.
So they have a state.
Now, mind you, he contradicts himself a few sentences later where he says, and the reason they don't have a state is because they don't want one.
But I thought they were given one.
You just said they were given one.
So if they were given a state in 2005, and he mentions that they, the IDF evicted forcefully all of the Jewish people out of those areas, that's half true.
I don't know.
It was kind of like an eminent domain deal.
Like you, you know, you had to give up your settlement, the illegal settlements, but they paid them, you know?
Like, I think, I think it was $200,000 a person.
Double check me on that, but I believe that's what the number was: $200,000 US dollars, whatever the conversion rate is.
So, you know, it's like, yeah, they made a move, basically, eminent domain type shit.
They made a move.
They bought him out.
But, okay, fair enough.
But if you're saying they gave them a state, then what you're claiming is that the two-state solution already happened.
There are two states, which, by the way, is not what anyone in the Israeli government, all the way up to Netanyahu, none of them are claiming that.
They're all saying that there's a reason why we can't do a two-state solution, but you're here claiming that they already got their state.
They gave them a state in 2005.
So, okay, let's just keep that in mind.
But that's of, you know, when I debated Will Chamberlain, one of, and this is probably my worst performance, if I were to judge in all of the debates I've done, I just didn't do great.
I could have done better.
But, you know, I've done several of these debates, as I've mentioned.
I was very happy with my debate against Ben Dominic.
I was very happy with my debate against Austin Peterson and Laura Loomer.
And, you know, the general consensus from the audience was I wrecked all these people.
With Will Chamberlain, I just could have done a better job.
I was also a little bit under the weather, as I still am, but whatever.
I'm not making any excuses.
But the best, I think the best moment I had in that debate, which most people still seem to think that I won, but the best moment I had in it was when I just asked him straight up.
Like I was like, you know, because all this is what happens in all of these debates is people will talk about the Israel-Palestine conflict as if we're talking about two governments fighting a war.
That they talk about it as if it's the United States of America and Mexico went to war.
And then you have to kind of like point out to them that it's not the United States of America and Mexico.
It's more like the United States of America and a prison within the United States of America going to war, right?
Like going to war with a bunch of prisoners.
That's a little bit different.
And I understand that's not a perfect analogy.
It's not like a literal prison in that sense, but it's closer to that than two governments going to war, like two governments with autonomy and a military and their own system.
That's not what we're dealing with here.
But so when I was debating Will, at one point I asked him, I go, are you, because he was kind of like arguing as if Palestine was its own government.
And so I said, are you arguing that there are two states right now?
Because even no one in the highest level of the Israeli government even thinks of it that way.
They all say that like, no, we're at best, the range from within the Israeli government of opinion is from the people who think we should one day have a two-state solution and the ones who say at this point, well, we can't have a two-state solution.
But none of them say we currently have two states here.
None of them claim that.
You know, the West Bank is occupied by the IDF and Gaza is under complete siege by the IDF right now.
None of them are arguing that they are their own states.
And so Will conceded that.
And he went, no, they're not two different states.
And then he conceded at one point that basically it's all one state, that it's all Israel.
And so then I said to him, I thought this was my best moment of the debate.
And actually, I'll say, I think this is what won me, the debate, was this one moment, was that I said to him, so I go, okay, so it's all one state.
And he goes, yes, it's all one state.
It's all Israel.
And I go, okay, but then you have a problem.
Like, if you're going to concede that this is all one state, then the problem you have is that then it's an apartheid state.
Because now you have a government.
I mean, just imagine, and there's a pretty small state, Israel, right?
But it's a state where there's five plus million people who have no rights.
Zero.
They are not granted citizenship.
They cannot freely trade.
They cannot freely move.
They cannot vote.
They cannot like they have no rights at all.
And they're all under your state.
So if you say that, if you concede that it's all one state, well, then you can no longer say that Israel is the only liberal democracy in the world, in the region.
They're not.
Now they're an apartheid authoritarian state that, you know, oppresses 5 million plus, I don't know, the total population of the West Bank and Gaza, whatever that is.
You know, they are all totally subjects of this state, not citizens, not members of it.
So anyway, here you have Douglas Murray kind of inferring that there are two states.
So let's stick with that and let's go to the next clip.
You say, first of all, you say, I don't care about the death of Palestinian children.
Yes, I do care.
I care very deeply about it.
But I also know that the responsibility for their deaths lies on Hamas, which has misgoverned their society for the last 16 years and now has been leading the country into being in a war with Israel.
So yes, it's on Hamas this.
So to me, this argument is just totally absurd.
And it's so absurd that I can't believe that anybody actually makes it with a straight face.
The idea that, like, yeah, I do care about these people dying, but I also recognize that it's all Hamas's fault.
Like, I mean, what does that even mean?
So it's all like, imagine, for example, because I think this is a pretty close, a pretty good example, but imagine even if you accept the human shields justification, which is, let's just say, not exactly right.
Human Shields and Police Blame00:02:33
And we can get it in the next episode.
I might talk a little bit more about the Al-Shifa hospital and what Israel lied about with that and how much they lie about the human shield shit so that they can just do whatever they want to.
But regardless, let's say, forget all of that.
Let's just say the human shields thing is completely legitimate, right?
So imagine there's a murderer and the murderer kills a bunch of innocent people and then goes into a school and he uses them all, all the children as human shields.
So he's in the school.
And then the local police department decides that they're going to bomb the school because we want to kill that murderer.
And let's say 70 children die and they get that guy.
So I'm giving you the best case scenario where they really are using human shields and it really was the murderer in there and they really get the murderer and kill him.
Because, you know, if you want to look at Israel's war in Gaza, a lot of times it's just a suspected Hamas guy and, you know, whatever.
But let's just say it's all real.
If, if, let's say that happened in your town, a murderer runs in to a school and they're holding a bunch of people hostages, using them as human shields.
I think your expectation would be that the police department would come down and negotiate with that guy or like, you know what I mean?
Like try to offer him whatever they could, try to do what, try to set up a sniper to like kill him and not hurt anyone else.
And if they just bombed the hospital and killed or the school and just killed all of the children in there and then went, that's on the murderer.
It's not on us.
Would any of us accept that?
Would any of us go, yeah, none of the blame is on the police department who just murdered all of these children?
Like, who would take that as a legitimate response?
Who of who would take that and go, yep, that guy just, you know, he murdered those other people and then he murdered all those other.
No one else is responsible.
You are not in any way, shape, or form responsible for the people who die as a result of the bombs that you drop.
That is ridiculous.
War Crimes in Iraq and Syria00:13:11
And it's so ridiculous that I can't believe it actually comes out of the mouth of someone like Douglas Murray.
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All right, let's get back into the show.
All right, let's keep playing.
Wars, by the way, I just mentioned about seeing wars because as far as I can see, you're very ill-traveled as well as rather ill-lettered and ill-spoken.
And I mentioned that I cover wars and go-to-wars because I happen to think myself that it's worth seeing things with your own eyes, including things that you don't particularly like, but you report the truth.
I don't know if you ever even leave your own bedroom.
And I can tell already that you don't because you've already said something that demonstrates, you know, nothing about this conflict.
You have just demonstrated it in the following terms.
You said that this is why we need to push for a two-state solution and give legitimacy to the Palestinian.
Let's pause it right there.
So here's, I just, because so many people have been like sending me this video and they're like, Douglas Murray destroys Jank Uger.
And as I said, I'm not a big fan of Jank Uger, but I think it's safe to say that we can dismiss all of what he just said as nothing.
Like that's just nothing.
It's nothing to say, I've been there and I don't think you leave your own bedroom or whatever.
Like, what is that?
I mean, you know, he's saying it in a very confident way, but what does any of that mean?
Yeah, I remember, like, I'm old enough to remember back in 2002, 2003, 2004, when people used to make this argument that they went to Iraq.
I went to Iraq and therefore I know they have weapons of mass destruction and we got to fight a war in Iraq.
But it was all bullshit.
You know, you can say you've gone there.
There's lots of people who have gone there and who have reported the opposite.
So that's just nonsense.
Just have a debate on the merits of the issues.
This is nothing.
It means absolutely nothing.
Hey, I've never been to Iraq, but I was against us fighting a war there.
Okay.
If someone went to Iraq and was for us fighting that war, are they right?
And I'm wrong because they went and I didn't go?
No, that's stupid.
Okay.
So it just means nothing.
And again, as I mentioned, there's plenty of people who went to Iraq and then came back and were like, holy shit, we shouldn't have fought a war there.
Tucker Carlson was all for the war in Iraq and then he went there and he was like, holy shit, we never should have fought this.
And believe me, if you want to actually talk to all of the people who have been to Gaza, okay, let's do that.
Let's do that.
Go look at the New York Times reporters, the CNN reporters, like all these guys who have been in, even like in these publications that I'm not a big fan of, but they've been to Gaza and they've been like, yo, this is insane what Israel's doing here.
Insane.
Worse than any of the wars that America has fought in the terror wars over the last 20 years.
Like the absolute disregard for innocent civilians is astounding.
There's so many of those accounts.
So this just means nothing.
Two-state solution and give legitimacy to the Palestinian authority.
I'll tell you something you don't know because I guess you spent no time in the West Bank, have you?
I'll tell you something you probably don't know.
The Palestinian authority, Fatah, celebrated the 7th of October massacres.
I'll give you another fact which demonstrates you know nothing about this and clearly haven't ever visited any Palestinians in the West Bank as I have.
If there was an election tomorrow in the West Bank, the reason why there isn't one is because if there was an election tomorrow in the West Bank, Hamas would win.
So your idea of a two-state solution, I'm afraid you are so out of date and you really should leave your bedroom.
Because in this region, nobody thinks that there is a two-state solution on the table because there is not a viable negotiating partner.
But I just want to make one other main point.
You have gone on and on tonight throwing accusations out against the Jewish state, against me.
It's the sort of thing you do.
I know you're a sort of sort of online pugilist and think you can run for office and good luck with that.
But I'd just like to point out that you only really get animated if the Jews are involved.
And I can tell that for the following reason.
I mean, your surname's Uyghur, isn't it?
One million Uyghur Muslims in China have been put in concentration camps in the last decade.
And people of your ilk never really care about that, do you?
Because it's not the Jews doing it.
It's the Chinese Communist Party.
At the moment, one million people who are in Pakistan at the moment, who are your fellow Muslims and who happen to be Afghan, and I don't think you care about them, do you?
One million Afghans are currently being forcibly deported from Pakistan to Afghanistan.
You don't care about that.
You're not riled up about that.
You're not riled up about what the jungleweed are currently doing in Sudan, where thousands and thousands of people are being attacked by the Islamist militia there.
You don't care about any of that.
You get exercised and you rile up what little base you have of malcontents because you're riled up when the Jews do anything.
So, all right, so let's kind of take this apart a little bit.
And cause so many people are saying to me, Douglas Murray, ah, look at him, he fucking destroyed this guy.
And I'm just looking at this and I'm going, where was the actual argument?
What exactly did he destroy here?
And granted, Jank Uger is not the best guy to, you know, debate this case.
But a couple things here.
I think it's pretty interesting that he goes, what demonstrates that you know nothing about this is that you advocate for a two-state solution when he just in the previous clip we played argued that there already was a two-state solution.
Like he's arguing that Gaza is its own state, that they were given their own statehood.
So like, I'm sorry, square that circle for me.
Like, what?
So you're saying they did the two-state solution, but how could anyone possibly argue for a two-state solution?
Which one is it?
Just tell me.
I think this is one of the things that if you're talking about this, this war in Gaza, you have to pin people down on.
What is actually going on here?
Because people will make it sound like there are two states, like it's a war, right?
And what is that to most of us?
What does that mean when you say it's a war?
It means there's this government and there's this government and they're fighting each other, right?
But that's not what's going on here.
And so if you're going to say there's two different governments fighting each other, then okay.
But then you're saying there's already a two-state solution.
And if you're going to say, well, we can't have a two-state solution, then okay, then what is it?
Then I guess it's all one state.
And in that case, what's going on in this one state?
That's the thing I'm trying to pin people down on on this, because I think it's the most important thing to recognize.
And then after that, he goes into, and let me tell you, this is the I've I've had this experience where, and maybe some of you guys listening have too, where when I'm talking about the war in Ukraine or the war in Israel or like all this other stuff, people accuse you of what aboutism.
And I always hate the term because quite often the term whataboutism, I'd say the majority of times is it's just a response to someone making a really good point or putting things in context.
And then they go, that's what aboutism, you know?
Like you'll, you know, all of the people who have been supporting all of the U.S. wars over the last years will go, Vladimir Putin's a war criminal.
And you'll go, wait, what?
But didn't you support the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan and the war in Syria and Libya and Somalia and Yemen and all of this?
You support all of that, but you're saying he's a war criminal.
And they'll go, what aboutism?
But I'll tell you, there is a form of what aboutism.
I guess that's a real thing.
You know, like if you were talking to a friend and you were like, dude, you have a real drinking problem.
You came home last night and you beat up your wife and your daughter because you were so hammered.
And he goes, yeah, well, you eat too much cheesecake.
You know, you'd probably be like, all right, dude.
Well, okay, that might be true, but we're not talking about that right now.
We're talking about this right now.
Okay.
But I mean, Douglas Murray here, his examples are like, oh, so you're talking about this, but I don't hear you talking about this.
And of course, Jank Uger is not equipped to actually respond to this point.
But I think the obvious response to this is pretty easy.
And so I'll say it for myself as somebody who's like, well, look, I have been talking about a lot of these other wars.
Like I have been talking about the war in Yemen and the war in Syria and all of this shit for years.
And I think on some of the biggest platforms, I've been one of the bigger voices who's been talking about this stuff.
But if you're going to ask me, why is it that you don't have a comment on every horrible thing that's happening around the world, but you have a comment on this?
Well, the answer is pretty obvious, right?
The answer is pretty obvious.
It's because I am being forced to fund this one.
That's why I tend to be a little bit more pissed off about the mass murder campaigns that I am forced to fund.
Like, look, there might be a group of people in sub-Saharan Africa who are killing each other.
And I think that's horrible.
I'm against that too.
I'm against any innocent people being killed.
I'm okay with self-defense, but I'm against aggression against innocent people.
Okay, that's true across the board.
But there's a difference when it comes down to the conflicts like the war in Gaza or up until the last year and a half, the war in Yemen.
Or before that, the war in Syria or the war in Libya or the war in Afghanistan and Iraq and Somalia.
And the reason why I talk about that, those ones more than some of the other conflicts in the world is because my government, which I'm forced to fund, is the one doing the fucking killing or financing the killing.
Why We Focus on These Wars00:01:48
Okay?
That's it.
That's the difference.
That's why we focus on these ones.
And believe me, like if anyone who's listened to this show for years, I mean, you know, or even just months or whatever, if you don't think this is true, but if you, if the United States of America was funding and backing and propping up Hamas to commit more October 7ths, what do you think I'd be saying about that?
I'm pretty sure you know I'd be against it.
So that's the difference right there.
Anyway, everyone was telling me like, oh, Douglas Murray owned this guy.
And I'm watching this and I'm going, he said nothing.
There was nothing there.
I didn't, I don't think he landed one good point.
So anyway, if he wants to do a debate, I'm down to do it.
Anyway, listen, we're coming up on the end of the year.
And just so you guys know, we're doing a big New Year's Eve show here in East Rutherford, New Jersey.
There are a few tickets left.
It's very close to selling out.
So if you want to come out, it's a live stand-up comedy show, a live part of the problem podcast, and a meet and greet party and hang afterward.
Me, Robbie the Fire Bernstein, and Chris Fega.
You can get tickets at comicdave Smith.com.
So go check that out.
Merry Christmas, everybody.
Thank you so much.
This has been the best year in the history of part of the problem.
So I'm really grateful to everybody who's been listening this whole year.