Dave Smith and Robbie the Fire Bernstein critique Kanye West's disastrous appearance on Tim Pool's show, where West's anti-Semitic rants using the code word "them" caused him to flee after basic clarifying questions. They condemn this weak evasion as logically flawed, comparing it to other vague generalizations, while noting West's handlers likely orchestrated the exit to avoid accountability. Ultimately, the hosts argue that West's strategy of planting a flag only to retreat reinforces a damaging culture of psychiatric excuses rather than fostering genuine free speech or political progress. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Crazy Dinner Arguments00:14:51
Fill her up.
You're listening to the Gash Digital Network.
We need to roll back the state.
We spy on all of our own citizens.
Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
You're listening to part of the problem on the Gash Digital Network.
What's up, everybody?
What's up?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Heart of the Problem.
I am Dave Smith, the most consistent motherfucker you know.
He is Robbie the Fire Bernstein, the king of the caulks.
What's up, my brother?
How you feeling today?
I'm doing well.
End of the year stuff's coming along.
Excited for these shows.
So I like this month.
Hell yeah, dude.
You got a bunch of shows coming up, correct?
Kansas City, Tucson, Arizona, Phoenix.
That's this weekend.
Tucson and Phoenix this weekend.
And then next weekend, you got Kansas City, Omaha, Nebraska, St. Louis, and then back in the Northeast and hopefully schedule some more shows so I can run the end of year thing before I film it.
Hell yeah, dude.
I'm looking forward to that.
Last year's was so great.
Can't wait to watch.
Thanks, man.
Can't wait to watch this one.
And of course, I will be the only thing I got left in terms of road gigs for 2022 is New Year's Eve at the comedy store in Los Angeles with my brother Louis Jay Gomez.
This show, I think the show is close to sold out.
So please go grab tickets if you're in the Los Angeles area.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
So come on.
Which room do you guys do at the comedy store?
Oh, the big room, the main room.
That's crazy that they give that to you on New Year's.
Like, that's such a premier show.
That's premiere.
We've, we've, we had like a kind of like a residency going.
In fact, we did like three years in a row New Year's shows, the last one being in 2019.
And they all went great.
And after 2019, they were like, we'll just give you guys like the New Year's, like, right, like that'll be your show every year.
Do the residents hate you guys, like these fucking New Yorkers coming in here on New Year's?
And nah, they're fucking, we take care of them.
They love us.
And we got good relations with like the LA guys and shit.
So we're all cool with them.
I mean, there might be some guys lower than that who I don't know who hate us, but that hasn't made it to me.
So I don't care.
But yeah, but then COVID happened.
And then LA was just so crazy with COVID shit.
So it was like COVID happened.
It was like the first year, I think there was like limited capacity numbers.
It's just not worth it to go out to LA to do a show if you can't fill, you know what I mean?
If we're only allowed to sell half the room.
And then it's like, you know, it's, you're like, oh, you want to come out for half the money?
You're like, I don't know, not really.
And then it was like vax mandates.
There was just like always some other thing, but this is the first year that we've gone back.
And I think, I don't know if we've actually worked it out, but I think we'll keep it going and do it.
And like next, you know, next year, Jay will be with us as well.
But he like, he booked other shit while we were doing this.
So me and Lewis this year.
But anyway, I'm really looking forward.
I haven't performed at the comedy store since 2019.
So looking, I mean, the last day of 2019, but technically still 2019.
Anyway, all right.
So really, I don't know what to say, man.
I just, what I really want to talk about today is this show on Tim Pool last night, which was, I don't know, really something.
Did you watch it?
Yeah.
I just, he's so fucking boring.
It's like he makes news.
So you're like, all right, I have to go watch this.
And then it was just 20 minutes of just be a bigot quicker.
I can't stand the pauses not coming to a point.
I'll sum it up.
And I know we got a million things to say on it, but can you not interrupt me?
I have to not make a point and take my time not making it.
Well, yeah.
All right.
Look, let's get into all of it.
Anyone who doesn't know uh.
So yesterday and I saw this during like in the middle of the day Tim Pool tweeted a picture of uh, Kanye West, Milo Yiannopoulos and Nick Fuentes.
I got so excited.
On the plane and up he just tweets the picture and then I was like, right away I was like oh, he's having him on the show and he was kind of hinting at that.
And then everyone's kind of speculating and then he tweets a follow-up tweet and with same picture and like tonight, and it was like oh, and I gotta say right away my thought was like yo, this is good, this is.
This is one of the biggest moments in podcast history like this, is it?
There's a few things ever like.
I remember Rogan having Alex Jones on after Alex Jones had been deplatformed off everything, where it's kind of like this weird, like oh, he's on he, he gets kicked off everything, but now he's on the biggest show.
That was like a really big deal.
Okay oops, looks like I was coming out of the wrong audio there.
I apologize, but we, we weren't going for too long.
Um no, but so the there was Alex Jones on Rogan episode.
There was the um uh, Jack Dorsey with Tim Pool on Rogan Episode that just felt like.
It felt like this crazy thing, like this moment it's.
It's like what podcasts exist for that?
Oh, this is.
We would never get this in any other outlet.
But right now you're gonna have the head of Twitter sit down with a huge critic of social media censorship and you know he's gonna be hitting them with all the stuff and he's gonna have to defend it and all of this.
And then there's just these big moments and I gotta say I felt like this was right up there, like I, when I saw this was gonna happen.
I'm like this is insane.
I really want to see this.
This is gonna be one of the most legendary podcasts ever.
You have this insanely famous uh rapper producer, fashion designer, Kanye West.
Uh, who's gone on this crazy you know what I mean like journey over the last few years, then really turned the temperature up on himself over the last month, got banned off, a lot of is being debanked and kicked out of these companies, and just had dinner with Donald Trump.
So like now, and and now he's there with Milo and Uh Fuentes and it's like so much like oh, we get to hear about what happened at the dinner.
We get to hear about what the going on here.
How did these guys connect?
What do they talk about?
Just like I don't know.
I was very, very interested in the, the conversation, and it's a and it's particularly interesting for me because I just happen to like uh, you know, with the exception of Kanye, like I know all these guys.
I mean I don't, I mean I, I don't know them super well.
I i've never met Nick, but i've had him on the show a couple times.
Then we did like a two-hour debate, so I know a bit about him.
Um, I have met Milo a few times and like done shows with him and i've been on Timcast a bunch and I know all those guys and so it was kind of like just a very interesting situation.
Like what the is this going to be like?
Um, and uh yeah ultimately, Ultimately, it didn't turn out to be any of those things.
Like, we didn't get much, if anything, about what would have been really interesting about that conversation, which really would have been to be like, man, start giving me details about what happened with Trump.
Like, how did this all happen?
What the fuck did you guys talk about?
What were the conversations like?
You know, and so anyway, it was a little bit disappointing in that regard.
And then it's also just very interesting to me to see the response from the episode.
So, for people who don't know, basically what happened, and I think this is a pretty fair summary.
They start the podcast.
I will play the clip where he leaves in a second, but this is basically, I think, a pretty fair summary of it because it's not that long.
They start the podcast.
Tim kind of sets it up like he normally does, introduces the guests.
He immediately asks about the fucking thing that everyone wants to talk about, which is, okay, you guys all just had dinner with the former president.
I was just thinking about like how crazy a story this is.
Like, and this is no matter where you stand on the issues.
So, when someone like Kanye West comes out and starts talking about the Jews and how he's going to go Descon on the Jews and how the Jews have done all this stuff to him, and then is just, you know, systematically starting to be completely separated from all of his corporate, you know, deals.
Adidas drops him.
He's being debanked and de-platformed and all this shit.
And to think that then, a few weeks later, he's sitting down to have dinner with the former president of the United States.
And then he brings along with him, like a guy in Nick Fuentes, who is like, he's been saying this shit for a long time.
Like, this is, and Milo Yiannopoulos, who I don't know if Milo, like, I haven't really been following what he says over the last few years.
Um, but it's just the spectacle of it alone is you'd go, this is so not the way it typically works.
Like, this is a very interesting story.
So, he asks him about that.
Kanye talks about it a few sentences on that on the dinner before he immediately transitions into just kind of what's happening to him.
And as you kind of pointed out, let me try to say this in the most generous way possible.
Kanye speaks in very long, non-linear stream of conscious rants where it's very, it just like it doesn't really stay on any one topic or anything else, but he very quickly starts getting into the Jews, like right up at the top.
And Kanye, I'd say for the time that they were there, I mean, Kanye dominated the conversation.
Kanye spoke more than anybody else spoke.
I mean, Milo and Nick Fuentes barely spoke at all while they were there.
And at a certain point, Tim offers him, I wouldn't, I don't even know if you could call it pushback, but he just kind of pokes at kind of the basic thing that you'd have to expect to get when you say this stuff, which is like, ah, well, why are we making it about the Jews?
Why can't we just talk about the people who you're talking about?
And Kanye gets offended by this at one point and is like, dude, I'm just not going to do another Lex Friedman style interview.
I'm not doing that.
And then at one point, here, we have the clip for when he actually leaves.
So I think you could take it here.
I think this is more or less a reasonable description of what happened.
They tried to lock me up.
That's what it because every time I'm just holding stride, and it's like I didn't, I thought I was more Malcolm X, but I find out I'm more MLK because as I'm getting hosed down every day by the press, and financially, I'm just standing there.
And when I found out that they tried to put me in jail, it was like a dog was biting my arm.
And I, I, I, I almost shed a tear, almost, but I still walked in stride through it.
I, I think, I think they've been extremely unfair to you.
I think they, though, we can't say they is.
I'm not using the I don't use the word as the way I guess you guys use.
I'm talking about it is them, though, isn't it?
I mean, because when you think about it, consider it in 2018.
What do you mean it's not?
What do I mean?
Like, uh, uh, okay, so how about you leaving?
Are you referred to the press?
He's gone.
I'll say it right now.
Um, you guys, I, I, you guys want to bring that stuff up, and I'm having a discussion, not gonna have a conversation.
You think Yay's gonna come in here and say, Here's my pay, here's my suffering.
I'm gonna say, I hear you, and then he's gonna say, and it was Jewish people, and I'm gonna be like, Okay, but don't you consider it's like, I'm not gonna do this, I refuse, make sure he's cool.
All right, go for it, okay.
So, you can pause right there.
So, basically, what happens?
Milo gets up to go make sure he's cool.
I guess now I'll tell you right there: what I thought was gonna happen was I thought, and I go, Maybe this will still be a interesting podcast.
Is I thought Fuentes was gonna stay and battle it out with him.
So, I thought because it cuts if you see it, cuts to Milo there, and he's like, Let me go check on him, and he leaves.
And I was like, Oh, I bet Fuentes will stay here and really argue why it is them, why it is the Jews.
And this will now get into like a fucking back and forth.
Um, and then they're talking for a little bit, and it becomes clear after a while that Fuentes is also gone at some point.
Now, I will say, in uh, in defense of that move, I kind of get where you're like, I'm gonna roll with Yay.
It's almost just like you're like, Yeah, he brought the jet, like you're like, Who am I hanging with for the rest of the night?
Like, I mean, if he's taken off, I might like go roll with it.
So, okay, I can kind of give him a pass on that, I suppose.
But that to me, and look, I tweeted something about this uh earlier, and it's interesting to me to even see.
So, I'd say most people were agreeing with me, but there was definitely a minority of people who were not.
And I was just like, I don't know what else to say other than I think, like Tim and Luke were like completely in the right here.
And it was a pretty weak move for all of them to come on and then just bail at the first touch of just like not even aggressive pushback, just like, okay, let's like unpack this here for a little bit.
Kanye literally, he goes at one point, he goes, like, Tim's kind of Tim's trying to be fair to him, and he's going, I think they've completely treated you unfair.
And then Kanye's like, But who is them?
You know, and he's like, Well, I mean, I don't think it's fair to say them as Jews.
I mean, let's talk about this.
And then Nick kind of chimes in with his like, but it is them.
And he seems like he's about to try to make an argument.
And then Kanye cuts off Fuentes.
And then, you know, he goes, He asks Tim a question.
Tim starts to answer it, and he just gets up and storms off.
And it just, to me, seemed like Kanye is like, He's like, I'm here to rant, and you can all listen to me rant, but I'm not interested in getting the slightest pushback.
It's my idea.
That's kind of what it seemed like to me.
I think that, look, I think if people are being fair, I know when I, whenever I talk about this, there'll always be like a certain percentage of people who will say things like, uh, they'll just be like, Oh, Dave's Dave's a member of the tribe, so of course he's going to have this opinion and just kind of dismiss what I'm saying because I'm Jewish.
Quit Smoking With Fume00:02:29
And if that's you, fine, but there's no discussion to be had.
There's no discussion to be had with me and you.
If that's how you feel about what my opinion on this is, like great, but just don't listen to me.
Don't like, you don't need to be a fan of mine.
Like, that's fine.
But that is like, that's bullshit.
Like, you can't, I don't know.
You could take 50 other opinions that I've said and it wouldn't, you know what I mean, like fit into that box.
But as soon as I, if I like have an opinion on this, then it's dismissed.
It's like, whatever.
I don't care.
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Controversial Kanye Limits00:14:08
I have been particularly willing to host and have conversations with people about this topic.
And I have always been under the, I've always had the belief that I think it's bullshit that this topic should be not allowed or off limits.
I also think this whole thing kind of demonstrates in some way that making this conversation off limits and not allowed has not helped at all to make it go away.
Think so let's all talk about this.
And I think it is very reasonable when people who like are want to talk about the Jews or want to talk about the JQ or whatever, when they say that this is bullshit that we're not allowed to have this conversation.
I think they're right about that.
I think they are right that they should be allowed to say what they want to say.
Like you either believe in free speech or you don't.
And if you believe people should be allowed to make these arguments, then they should.
And I think that if you don't agree with them, then you got to win with better arguments.
Okay.
So I think they're right when they say it's bullshit if we can't bring up these points.
But you can't say that.
And then when someone like Tim Poole is like, okay, I'll host you in front of millions of people and we can fucking talk about this and then also walk out if they want to ask the most basic follow-up questions or not just go along with what you're, what you're saying here.
So there's, it's also, I think, worth pointing out that, you know, at different points in the show, like it's Tim and Luke were not being hostile to Kanye.
They weren't being shitty to him.
They fact, at one point earlier, Luke interjected to make the point that like, hey, if he was, if he was, um, uh, what's his name?
Epstein, he wouldn't be getting debanked.
You know what I mean?
They go, you could be caught with all this other horrible shit.
They're not going to fucking kick you out of the bank.
And then Tim, even right there, was agreeing with him.
Like, yeah, I think it's fucked up.
I think you've been treated badly by a lot of people.
So it wasn't just, it's like they're being like, hey, let me let me like, we'll have you on the podcast.
I'll treat you with respect and not be hostile toward you and we can have a conversation.
But then as soon as they want to give any pushback to your idea, you're just like, dismiss them and walk out.
I just find that to be weak.
I don't really know any other way to look at it.
Like Kanye is, I think that a lot of people who are find themselves on his side of this are like number, they just really want to talk about the JQ or whatever.
So they're like, they want to be on the side of the person who's bringing it up.
Or they're just like, so kind of in the spirit of being, you know, it's kind of like the most anti establishment, the most against the current like regime you can be.
And this kind of represents it.
But you got to be honest, dude, the guy is just rambling somewhat incoherently.
It's hard to follow even what he's saying here.
And upon getting a little bit of pushback, he bails and refuses to defend his ideas.
I don't see how like I can't defend that.
I can defend your right to talk about a topic, but I can't defend you walking out because a guy didn't agree with you completely.
Let's let's say at the very least, acknowledge that it's a bold claim.
It's a controversial thing to talk about what Kanye has been talking about.
And that's great.
That's fine.
The most important truths are the ones that are controversial.
But I don't, I can't put myself in the position of ever putting out a controversial view that I believe is true.
And then someone just asking a few follow-up questions and being like, I'm not going to entertain these questions.
Sorry.
And leave.
I just can't, I don't respect that.
So I don't know.
Any thoughts on any of that, Rob?
It just, it couldn't be any lamer.
I mean, I got excited for, wow, this guy's going to be on.
You listen to meander for 25 minutes and then just leave.
It just, it makes no, also the patheticness of that he's sitting there and he goes, I've had handlers since I was 16.
So I don't even understand how a bank accounts work.
And this is within the context of him describing that he wants to run for president.
So that makes no sense to me.
So you don't know how to operate in just general tasks because you've had handlers, but you also look at the organization of the world and go, I should be in charge of everything because I could do it better than them.
Then you get one question and you just bounce.
And then the guy, this is how pathetic he is as a person that, what's his name?
Milo has to go.
I have to go check and see if he's okay.
I thought he's like a thug rapper billionaire guy.
What he's not going to be okay because someone asked him a question on his opinion on a podcast.
What is his kindergarten?
He's crying in the other room and you have to go check on him.
And I is this guy.
Well, look, I understand.
Like, Kanye seems to be like an emotional guy and he's been through a lot.
I mean, he really has been through a lot.
You just took all of his money.
You're literally going on to a major platform.
No one's willing to talk to you.
And you get to talk about anti-Semitism with a gay Mexican and a reformed gay guy while you all pretend to be Christians and you somehow made that uninteresting.
I don't even know how you do that.
It's well, look, I mean, like, he's by the way, even some of the things, it's just very hard to follow.
So, even the thing where he's saying, he's saying they tried to lock me up today, I think what he was referring to is that he basically got like a huge tax bill that they're saying, like, now he owes way more taxes than he does before.
And then, at one point, he says he was asking other people if this could be tax evasion.
And then he's like, he wasn't clear exactly what the answer on that was, but that seemed to be what he meant, that he thinks they're trying to set him up to go down for some like tax shit.
And like, that doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility to me.
I go, yeah, that might be like how they're trying to shut him up.
It's almost like, I'd like to hear more about that, but it's so hard to follow him because it's like on, he's like on so many different paths.
And look, perhaps, this is like how this guy's mind works that he's able to like make really dope beats.
I don't know.
Like, but there's, but the point is that all of the shit.
Look, I know he lost his family and stuff.
And I can't, I can imagine how devastating that would fucking be.
I know he's been under intense scrutiny.
He's lost tons of money.
He's got like all this shit going on.
But if you want to come on a show like this, you got to kind of be at least a little bit prepared to like defend what you're talking about.
And if you are, then like, I'm interested.
I'm in.
I am not one of these people.
It might be something wrong with me, some fucking character flaw of me.
I might have just fried my offended genes from all of the years of Legion of Skanks and being at fucking dirty comedy nightclubs and shit.
But like, there's no part of me that is like, when Kanye comes out and says any of the stuff he says about Jews, I'm like, this is outrageous, or I'm appalled or offended or something.
I just don't like, I don't, I think as most people who know me know, I don't operate that way.
Um, I'm, if anything, when someone says the most controversial thing, it makes me interested.
It makes me kind of go like, well, what argument do you have to defend that?
Like, that's kind of nuts.
What?
Okay, let's talk about it.
But it is not unreasonable for someone like for Tim or Luke to go, and when you start going them and talking about the Jews, it's just like, hey, what do we mean here?
Let's just like, let's like clarify this.
Why are we talking about, you know what I mean?
And I saw people, I feel like there's some really flimsy arguments that people are jumping on to kind of defend Kanye.
And they'll say there, there was this one video that people were putting out where they said, I guess, so Kanye says at some point during the podcast, referring to the conversation that they had had before the show, that Tim told him he thinks he could carry the black vote.
And so people are going like, oh, so it's okay.
Like, you're allowed to say the black vote, but I'm not allowed to say them, referring to Jews.
So like you can collectivize over here.
And how does that allow you to do that?
They wanted to be the themes.
Yeah, there you go.
I mean, we live in a world that you have to clarify who you mean by them.
I mean, them could be the people who are born a gender, but don't want to identify as humans.
So them, them could be every single Jew on the planet or just one dude.
Right.
That's the world we live in today.
But look, the problem with this type of argument is that it's not as if nobody is saying that you can never generalize.
And no one, again, like the it's an apples to orange comparison, obviously, when Kanye says them, they did this to us, they're behind everything and is referring to Jews.
Then when someone says the black vote, like the apples to apples comparison would be the Jewish vote.
Like, if someone said, Oh, I think he's going to carry the Jewish vote.
If I said to you that Ron DeSantis is so pro-Israel that I think he's going to carry the Jewish vote, no one would get offended by that.
And certainly, no one would say you're not allowed to say that.
No one's getting de-platformed or de-banked or anything like that for saying that.
Like, that's a because when you say there's no ambiguity to it, when if you say the black vote, even though I will, in some like abstract sense, I will go, these are artificial like constructions in that, like, blacks don't vote in unison and whites don't vote in unison.
And in fact, you could probably have like 50 more controls that would give you a much better, you know, like a fucking black dentist is probably not voting the same way as some dude in like the hood in Chicago.
You know what I mean?
Like, there's, but when you say the black vote, there's no confusion about what you mean.
Everybody knows you mean the majority of voting black people.
That's what you mean by carry the black vote.
You win the majority of black people who vote.
No one confuses that to think that you mean like that the blacks are all in something or doing something.
And so all it would take would be for Kanye to clarify what he's talking about.
It should be fairly easy for him to just be like, it goes, well, this is what I mean by that.
And this is what I mean when I say that.
This is why I say them.
And this is why I don't say, you know, like that's it.
And so if you're unwilling to do that, it's the most basic ask in a conversation to get anywhere for it to be like productive in any way.
So I just don't, I'm sorry.
I just don't see anything.
You know, I also saw other people like saying, like, oh, well, Tim was like interrupting his guest or Tim.
And Tim is like a dominant personality.
Like, he's, I've seen people go on his show, and if they don't like speak up, they won't speak that much, you know.
But like, I don't know, I've never had any problem speaking when I'm on Tim's show because that's just like my personality is like I'm a big talker too.
But I've never seen Tim give just more uninterrupted airtime to a guest before.
It's like this isn't, it wasn't like this is a one-on-one interview.
It wasn't Kanye ranting to an auditorium there to listen to his rant.
He was a part of a panel of people who were like having a discussion.
He goes, yeah, you can't, I don't know.
I just don't understand what the expectation is that he would go there and get receive zero, even follow-up questions on what he said.
I don't know.
Seems uh seems weird to me.
You would think someone with the clarity and strength of uh you know correspondence with God could handle a couple of questions to clarify his visions.
Yeah, I mean, when you're this in-depth with religion and you're trying to and you keep talking about these Christian themes and the Christian movement and a nation under God, when you have a little bit more clarity of vision to not fold after one question, yeah.
And look, there's just not, again, I like like I said, it's like a Jerry Seinfeld thing, but I use this as just someone who makes arguments.
Like, I'm not offended as a Jewish person as much as I'm just offended by someone who doesn't like bad arguments because he's, he was making these, you know, these like the what was he saying?
He was like, why is Rahm Emmanuel in Obama's ear and Jared Kushner is in Donald Trump's ear?
And you're like, oh, okay, but I mean, obviously, you could pick out examples of some that doesn't like really prove anything.
I mean, like, I, you know, any more than I could be like, you know, why is Anthony Fauci and all these Italians taking over the NIH?
It just doesn't really make sense.
Um, by the way, again, I've always been open to like having this argument with people, and I don't think anyone should be censored.
I don't think anyone should be ruined.
I think, number one, it's wrong.
People have a right to have their opinions and make their arguments, and they shouldn't be ruined over that.
Number two, I don't think it does anything except, you know, create a more destructive environment where, like, now, what, like, you know, if you did want to silence these views, it's like, well, then you just kind of, first off, you kind of demonstrate this insecurity about defending your views, and you also create this kind of impression, or maybe even the reality that, like,
oh, these views are off limits and powerful forces will ruin you if you, if you discuss them.
That certainly doesn't do anything to help.
White Privilege Problems00:02:59
But I also just think on the most basic level, it's a, it's really a silly, it's, it's silly racialism.
It's like, it's silly.
Every time anyone does it, it ends up leading you in these really kind of goofy, stupid directions.
It's the same thing when feminists talk about men or when, you know, what, whatever, whatever the group is you could think of, it's the same, you know, they'll, again, a lot of people will pick up on other people's hypocrisy to justify their own.
So they'll go, oh, well, the left can talk about white people, but that, you know, we can't talk about Jews.
And you're like, yeah, it's really stupid when the left talks about white people in these generalizations.
It's always really stupid.
When you talk about that, if you extrapolate out that, you know, white people on average earn more than black people or have a higher net worth than black people, and then you extrapolate out from there, like this white privilege, it takes you into stupid directions.
You end up like all white people inherently have white privilege.
And then you're like, okay, really?
So like Obama's kids are less privileged than some truck driver.
Really?
Is that true?
No, it's stupid.
See, like racialism is stupid.
And it's stupid when feminists do it about men.
And it's stupid.
Like, it's all like, that's not to say that there aren't trends that are true.
It's not to say that there aren't certain groups overrepresented in certain areas, but no one was really arguing that.
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The truth is that there's a Amy Chua wrote a whole book about this.
It was really interesting.
Amy Chua's Interesting Opinions00:15:01
But the truth is that there's market dominant minorities in lots of countries throughout history, where there's like small groups of people who end up really dominant in these different fields.
And it's never that easy to explain exactly why it is or why it isn't happening that way.
But jumping to a lot of these conclusions just leads to like sloppy thinking, you know, and look, Kanye West is a black dude from Chicago.
But if I were to just start like, I don't know, holding him responsible for the worst shit that black dudes in Chicago do, I'd be like, oh, you're just basically like a murderer.
Yeah, like you and your people, you fucking murder little girls.
That's what you guys do.
We can all see how fucking shitty that is.
Ironically, some of the people Kanye West is chilling with now maybe wouldn't agree with that, but it is.
It is stupid.
It doesn't make any sense.
And if you're saying, which I see are other people making the argument, well, Kanye's not saying that.
He's not saying it's anything about other, like all Jews.
He's just talking about this group of Jews.
It's like, great.
So then just clarify that when Tim Poole asks you the question.
It'd be that easy.
Just clarify that, say that, and then you could move on.
I don't think anyone really, okay, I shouldn't say anyone.
Lots of people are.
I don't think any of us are suggesting that you can't have the conversation about the Jews who are screwing you over in these industries.
I don't think anyone has a problem with that.
It's just like when you start talking in these code words like them and shit, I don't know.
Like you would, Kanye would, if I was referring to black people and talking about how they're violent and calling it them and the blacks and just keeping it that vague, most people would want a clarification that it's like, but you don't like hate black people, do you?
Or do you like blame all black people for this?
It's not an unreasonable thing to want to clarify.
And if that's not your position, then you could clarify it in one sentence.
He's got a Fauci-like arrogance where, you know, Fauci is the science.
So Kanye seems to have that also, where it's like, no, I don't have to give you a reason.
I'm Kanye.
I'm the wealthiest black man ever.
And since I said it, that's now true.
Except what you're saying maybe borders on bigotry.
So like, at least with like Fauci, he gets to hide behind that it's like there's some good there.
Whereas with Kanye, it's like, what, what, what goodness is coming from this that we're supposed to just take your word for it?
But I know that he didn't promote that he was going on the show, but this to me is as lame as someone hyping a fight, getting into the ring, and then there's a single jab and going, yeah, we're done.
We're done.
I'm leaving.
I don't really want to do this.
It's like, if you're going to say DEF CON five against the Jews, if you're going to have an interesting opinion, share your interesting opinion.
Don't keep going out there and going, hey, I got this really interesting opinion.
And then you won't tell me what it is or why you think it or why you won't defend it.
It's just fucking annoying.
You know, I don't know if you even remember this, Rob, but I had a, I, there was a podcast that we did back in maybe, man, I don't even know.
It was 2017 or 2018 or something like that.
And the like kind of alt-right guys or the Groypers or whatever, they really loved this one.
It went viral on all of their like sites and shit.
And it was, I was responding to a Ben Shapiro speech where Ben Shapiro was without mentioning their names, just trashing Owen Benjamin and Nick Fuentes.
And I defended those guys and I was and, you know, it's this years ago, so I'm almost a little fuzzy on the details.
The video is probably out there somewhere and you can find it.
But they were basically like, they were arguing, I think, about like the Jewish influence over foreign policy and other things like I think we should be talking about the gay Mexican influence over white nationals.
Well, that's another, that's, that's a whole nother question that we need to get to.
But anyway, but I basically took their side in the argument.
And I was like, you know, look, like it's reasonable for them to point this out and to have this critique.
And I don't think that, you know, from the perspective of like how a Jew should feel about that, I don't think the correct response is to be like, well, I'm so offended that you would even point that out.
This is outrageous.
It's like, that's bullshit.
That's a cop-out.
I think it's reasonable to go like, well, hey, look, there is like a very dominant influence by Jews, particularly neoconservative Jews, on American foreign policy.
And it has really been disastrous for the country.
And if you are a minority in a country, as Jews are, a very small minority, 2% of the United States or something like that, I think it's in your own best interest.
It behooves you to like make sure that whatever influence you're exerting is beneficial to the country because you don't want to piss off a lot more people than there are you, like just from a strategic point of view, if nothing else.
Also, it's just, you know, the wars are evil and horrific.
And so I don't, I think I'm pretty good on looking at these things and calling them as I see them.
I don't react to them in like an identitarian way or I'm an offended type way where I'm just going to shut them down.
And truthfully, my bias going into this is that I like Kanye West.
I want to be kind of rooting for him.
Number one, I really like his music.
He made his first album, College Dropout, was phenomenal.
He made it right around the time I dropped out from college.
It really spoke to me.
It really, it was nice that someone was there.
For those, those of us who finished high school but dropped out of college, it's a we're a good group.
And I've, I just enjoy his music.
I kind of enjoy the spectacle of him.
I don't, while I don't agree with everything he said about Jewish people, I do agree with some of it.
And I also just, I am naturally just drawn to somebody who stood their ground the way he did.
The fact that like in the face of overwhelming pressure, he's like, fuck you.
I'm not apologizing.
I believe what I'm saying.
I admire that.
I like that quality.
And so I wasn't coming into this like, I want to hate Kanye West.
I also don't hate Nick Fuentes or Milo Yiannopoulos.
Now, you know, I don't agree with a lot of shit they say.
I do agree with a lot of other things that they say.
And I find them both to be like entertaining and, you know, talented.
And my attitude in general with people in that, those within that type, that type, broadly speaking, I even if they really fucking hate Jews, like even if they really just like, you know, I don't have like that, I don't have this like, I don't know, like triggered reaction to it.
I'm kind of like, okay, if you don't like Jewish people, that's cool.
You know, you don't have to hang out with us.
I don't know.
I just don't, it doesn't like really do it for me.
I look at this, especially in the context of Kanye West talking about like running for president.
I look at this like, I don't know, man, like I, I don't hate these guys.
These guys have no power.
These guys do nothing to fuck me up in my life.
These guys didn't lie to Americans to send their sons over to some faraway land to die in wars.
They're not like my real enemies.
You know what I mean?
Like my enemies are like powerful people who have destroyed the greatest nation in the history of the world.
That's like who I care about.
It's like I care much more about the people who are like destroying our currency and destroying our country and fucking, you know, have us on the brink of a nuclear confrontation with Russia.
Those criminals who like raped America through 2020 and 2021 and instituted the largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the billionaire class in the history of the world.
Those are the people that I'm like focused on hating.
This just doesn't, whether you like a group of people or don't like a group of people, that's not an issue to me that even registers on that level.
So I'm not like going into this with some bias.
I'm just looking at what happened there and calling a spade a spade, which is like that this was weak.
This was incredibly weak.
You had two guys in Tim and Luke who were being completely fair to you, giving you their platform and going to be, you know what I mean?
Just like not being hostile, not being shitty, saying like, hey, we actually think you've been fucked over in a lot of ways here.
And okay, we get a lot of what you're saying.
We kind of like come from this.
This part, I don't think so.
Why should we call it them?
Let's not make it about the Jews.
Let's just talk about the people involved.
And that's enough for you to storm out.
Oh, I'm not doing another one of these Lex Friedman interviews.
Like so many of these guys, they make it out like it's always with this air of like, oh, you're just asking the most bullshit sophomoreic question.
Like, oh, it's not all Jews.
Of course it's not all Jews.
And then like, but you're like, okay, so if it's such a bullshit sophomore question, then just fucking answer it.
They only asked it like once.
So just answer it and then make your point.
Anyway, it's a shame.
It just would have been so much more interesting if they had just done that and then get to like some really fucking good shit.
I'm done with Jews for easy.
It's over.
Oh, no.
Rob, Rob.
He's a failure.
And I actually, I mean this by there's something.
I think there's a win.
Firstly, if you get third parties, you get new candidates out there.
And if they're freak show people, I think it exposes flaws in the system.
I mean, if Kanye actually ran and let's say he did steal the black vote from the Democrats, I mean, how great would that be?
It would expose that the Democrats aren't really doing a great job of representing that community or that that community maybe doesn't have the, do the best job if they actually fully supported Kanye and Kanye didn't have a great agenda.
So it might expose that maybe they need better education about who they're actually backing.
The point I'm trying to make is the more that we can splinter the system, the better.
And the more that we can expose that, hey, this thing is a fucking freak show.
To me, it's a win.
So I like it if celebrities want to step in.
But in this case, he just is being too lame about it.
Honestly, I was supporting the fact that, hey, this is a fucking wild card.
This seems entertaining.
And the more of a spectacle or legitimate this is treated, I think the better it is at exposing how much the system sucks.
But and the biggest problem is he's going to be able to walk away from the whole thing because I'll go, I got back on my meds.
Like he'll either, this will either spiral out.
No, this will either spiral out of control where it doesn't have a great ending for him, or he'll just walk it back with the, oh, all right, finally.
And then everyone go, okay, he's back in his meds.
And then that's the culture we live in where we're so obsessed with psychiatry and medicating people that we'll play into that like that's actually the totality of the problem and the solution.
So I don't even like that that card's on the table, that he can just walk back the whole thing.
But to me, it's just-I don't think he will.
I don't see that happening.
I don't think there's any walk back for Kanye.
I think Kanye's planted his flag in the ground.
And I think he's so big that there's, there's like a future for him.
It's not like he's like going to be.
Michael Jackson's still popular and he molested kids.
So I guess if you're a big enough pop star, you can always just go back to going on tour and people will show up.
Hell, I've got to see Cosby perform.
Yeah.
Well, I don't know if you have an if you if you're paying attention to the way our current regime works, but molesting kids is not nearly as great of an offense as calling out Jews.
It seems.
It seems like there's a lot more is going to come down on you for the latter than the former.
And don't pull out the Jews for molesting kids.
That's for sure not a good idea.
You definitely don't want it.
Then you might be in trouble.
But I, you know, I don't know exactly where this all goes.
I think that he's just so huge and there's such a demand for him that I don't think he's going anywhere.
Nor do I want him to.
I hope he's still out.
He's still.
He gave one presidential speech the last time and he cried in the middle of it and then walked back to his wife and said, I'm sorry, I'll get back on my meds and their marriage fell apart.
Where is this going?
How, I mean, he's not putting together a serious, he cried after once during the speech the last time and then instantly had a breakdown.
Yes, I don't think he's putting together a serious run for president, but I do think he might do things.
And I think he's, he's still going to be like a big voice for a while going forward.
I just Milo.
Sure.
All right.
So first is he should go back to being flamboyantly gay because he's also become boring.
I don't know what this new character is where he's almost playing like the lady who holds a clipboard and is just standing behind him taking notes.
I don't know what he's doing, but I did watch a little bit of when he was on the last time and he dropped that Alex Jones made the connection between him and Kanye.
And it's very interesting to think that Alex Jones is actually behind the curtain pulling some strings here.
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Jimi Hendrix Band Dynamics00:06:34
Then you also wonder like what the other thing that I wonder, right, is, and I don't know because they might like Kanye to me seems like is just kind of like wrapped up in the world that is Kanye.
Like, I don't know if he's thinking about these things or not.
But if you're Milo or Nick Fuentes, I'd be really surprised if it hasn't crossed your mind that like, like, I don't know.
You've got to on some level know, like if you're really rooting for Trump, if you're really like, you want Trump to succeed, then I think you'd have to imagine be like, this might be a bad move for us to all go eat with him.
You know what I mean?
Like Kanye's here has been on like a rant about the Jews for the last few weeks.
We've both been kind of associated as very problematic.
This is probably going to have some pretty high negatives for him.
Maybe you'd want to like get a message to him through the, get on a phone call with him when other people wouldn't know about it or something like that.
It just seems like for them to all be kind of setting this up, like, don't you feel like this is probably going to be, you know, probably more damaging to him than helpful.
It would seem to me to be like, I don't know.
I guess it's just hard for me to imagine that that wasn't ever thought of.
Like, do you think they're trying to help Trump here?
No, I'm saying I don't know that they are.
I don't know.
I don't see any, I don't see this being thoughtful to help Trump.
I could see this being thoughtful to purposely try and cause some problems for him.
That would make sense to me.
Yeah, that, well, that's kind of my point is that that makes more sense in a way than this being some type of thing to help him.
I don't know.
Is Fuentes still a Trump supporter?
I believe he was at least last I spoke with him and last, yeah, the last time we had our debate, I think he was really defending Donald Trump.
Is he even a Mexican or did I make that up?
I think he just made that up.
I don't know what his, I don't know what his background is.
His name is Fuentes.
He's got some.
Right.
And he's definitely a twink.
That I can just tell.
I don't know.
I cannot confirm nor deny any of that.
But yeah, I don't know.
There's a vibe going on with all three of them.
It does seem that way, right?
You never know what this is.
It's a little thruple action.
Look, I don't freaking know.
I don't know anyway.
I just kind of like was, I was, I was really looking forward to like, I think what like a good podcast it could have been.
Not even good, like a legendary podcast it could have been.
And I felt like that Tim Poole and Luke were there for it.
I think they were there and ready to have it.
And it's a shame, but it is, it is not on, it's not on them.
I really almost don't know how people see this the opposite way.
Like that's, that's not on them, man.
They fucking, they, they were there and it was, it was totally reasonable to be like, look, you kind of also, you put people in a certain position.
They, they did not even really bring up, like they were bringing up, or Tim was bringing up the meeting with Trump.
That's what he was starting with.
Um, they, Kanye was the one who decided, like, no, let's talk about the Jews and like get right into that.
And if you don't, you, you put someone in a situation where it's like, look, dude, if you don't believe that shit and you don't really like, that's not your thing.
Like, I don't want to be talking about that, which clearly is not Tim Poole's thing.
That's not what he's about.
That's not what he's trying to do.
Now you put someone in a position where it's like, they kind of almost like, you can't just like pretend you didn't hear that and then move on with the rest of the show.
You know what I mean?
Like you kind of have to at least address that and be like, yeah, I don't really like, I don't really use them to mean the Jews.
I was using them to mean the people who have screwed you over.
And if that, if just saying that is enough to like piss you off for you to leave, then I don't know what to say.
So I think for me personally, I think Tim Poole and Luke come out of this like looking really good.
I know not everyone's going to see it that way, but I think they come out of it looking really good, where they look like, hey, we were willing to have the conversation in a respectful manner.
You know what I mean?
And not be like shitty about it.
But we weren't willing to just sit here and just listen to you and not talk and not give any pushback at all on any of the things you have to say.
To me, that's reasonable.
So I don't think it's fair to ask for much more than that.
I don't know.
Any final thoughts before we wrap this recap?
We don't usually do this.
Because he's self-censoring at this point.
He doesn't want to even express this interesting point of view that he has.
He's learned his lesson.
He's like, I've already lost enough billions.
If you're going to ask me to clarify, I just, if I say it, it'll be too damaging.
So I'm just going to leave.
Maybe, maybe that's it.
Anyway, it's, we don't usually do an episode like this just responding to another podcast, but this one felt like I was so mad last night.
I was so mad because at first I saw the picture, I was like, wait, they really went on?
And I was like, oh, and then I saw that he left.
I was like, oh, this is going to be great.
And so I watched from the beginning for like the full 25 minutes.
And when that's all that happened, that he just got up and left, I felt so cheated.
Yeah.
No, I know what you mean.
I felt I was like, he got me again.
This is another non-incident.
He keeps making news and you're like, all right, well, this is my job.
So I got to go see what he said because otherwise everyone accuses you that you're not paying attention, you're not doing your homework.
And then he doesn't fucking say anything.
Especially with this one where I was like, oh, this is going to be really fucking interesting to hear like this dynamic and all of this.
Anyway, all right.
That's like, you got Nick Fuentes.
What's his name?
All three of them together on a presidential ticket.
That's like, I don't know if you got Jerry Garcia back from the dead, like playing with like all of my favorite musicians and the band just sucked.
And you're like, I don't get it.
I bought a ticket.
Like, how is this band not good?
You got Jimi Hendrix.
And it wasn't even, and to your point, when you see it, he walked out, you're like, it wasn't even like fireworks and he walked out.
It was like just the simplest of fucking questions.
You got John Bonham and Jimi Hendrix here and this band sucks.
How's this possible?
All right.
Listen, we got to wrap up on that.
Thank you, everybody, for listening.
And we'll be back next time.
We'll be breaking down shit that matters and news and stuff like that next time.