Part Of The Problem - Dave Smith - How The Left Ruined Sex
Aired: 2022-07-25
Duration: 01:12:05


=== Generational Divide in Orientation (07:30) ===

[00:00:00]  Fill her up.
[00:00:02]  You're listening to the Gash Digital Network.
[00:00:08]  We need to roll back the state.
[00:00:10]  We spy on all of our own citizens.
[00:00:12]  Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
[00:00:16]  If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
[00:00:22]  Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
[00:00:26]  You're listening to part of the problem on the Gash Digital Network.
[00:00:30]  Here's your host, Dave Smith.
[00:00:33]  What's up, what's up, everybody?
[00:00:35]  Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
[00:00:37]  I am Dave Smith.
[00:00:38]  He is Robbie the Fire Bernstein, the king of the caulks.
[00:00:41]  What's up, my brother?
[00:00:42]  How you feeling?
[00:00:43]  Doing well, man.
[00:00:44]  Three days a part of the problem.
[00:00:46]  Three days, all both of us at home.
[00:00:49]  Yeah, there you go.
[00:00:50]  Cranking out these episodes.
[00:00:53]  So yeah, good times.
[00:00:54]  And then, of course, we'll be right back on the road.
[00:00:56]  Rob, you got a bunch of stuff coming up.
[00:00:58]  Absolutely.
[00:00:58]  Summer porch tour.
[00:00:59]  Come follow the tour.
[00:01:00]  Get in your van.
[00:01:01]  Load up the kids.
[00:01:01]  Bring the grilled cheese sandwiches, the drugs.
[00:01:03]  You know, I want to make this a tailgate.
[00:01:05]  Fuck.
[00:01:06]  Grilled cheese sounds like something you want to make at the location, not pack.
[00:01:11]  Oh, yes.
[00:01:12]  And then you want to trade it for balloons with nitrous oxide, but we're not there yet.
[00:01:16]  We don't have enough people showing up to have like a full shakedown street experience, but we're going to get there.
[00:01:21]  But in the meantime, if you just want to show up and enjoy a comedy show, you can do that in Denver.
[00:01:25]  You can do that in DC.
[00:01:26]  You can do that in Maryland and some random field out of Michigan.
[00:01:29]  So come hang out.
[00:01:30]  Hell yeah.
[00:01:31]  I just saw on Twitter earlier today that Young Americans for Liberty Revolution 2022 is officially sold out.
[00:01:40]  So that's cool.
[00:01:41]  And thanks to everybody who's coming.
[00:01:44]  I'll see you there in Orlando coming up in just a couple of weeks now.
[00:01:47]  So looking forward to that.
[00:01:49]  Of course, go check out my site, comicdave Smith.com.
[00:01:52]  And of course, subscribe to the network right here, gasdigitalnetwork.com, promo code P-O-T-P.
[00:01:59]  Not only do you get a monthly discount, but prices are about to be raised and you will be grandfathered in.
[00:02:04]  If you sign up now, it's how you support this show.
[00:02:06]  You get access to our entire archive on demand, all the episodes in the history of Part of the Problem going back years and years and years.
[00:02:14]  You can go back and kind of see how our philosophy has grown and evolved over the years.
[00:02:20]  You could go back way, you know, way back to when I hated Obama to then when I hated Trump and hated God.
[00:02:27]  I did.
[00:02:28]  I hated God and loved abortions until I was saved.
[00:02:33]  Anyway, speaking of, so I, something I wanted to talk about today, it's a little bit off subject for what we usually talk about, but it overlaps a lot with issues of politics and culture and even, I think, libertarian theory.
[00:02:49]  Having sex with college kids is on the top of my mind.
[00:02:52]  And of course, Rob's desire to have sex with college students.
[00:02:55]  All of these things kind of intersect here.
[00:02:59]  But it caught my eye for a few reasons.
[00:03:02]  And part of it is also, you know, I don't know.
[00:03:04]  I think I got to start another podcast that's like a relationship advice podcast or something like that.
[00:03:08]  I think I would be good at that.
[00:03:09]  I think I have a lot to add into these conversations.
[00:03:14]  I might do it.
[00:03:14]  I might be the next Oprah.
[00:03:16]  I think it's a great idea.
[00:03:17]  Like a father figure Oprah.
[00:03:19]  Yeah, like a skinny Jewish Oprah who doesn't stop dropping F-bombs.
[00:03:24]  That's more, you know, but isn't that what America needs right now?
[00:03:27]  Anyway, so I happened to find this.
[00:03:29]  It was a New York Times piece, an opinion piece by Emma Camp, who I wasn't familiar with, but is evidently an assistant editor over at Reason.
[00:03:44]  So it was, it's written by somebody who's, I don't know if she like identifies as a libertarian, but I would assume probably does, and is in the libertar at a libertarian publication.
[00:03:53]  And so right away, you're just like, oh, one of them got a piece in the New York Times, you know, and I hate myself.
[00:03:57]  So, I'll read the times occasionally.
[00:04:00]  But it was, I don't know, I thought it was interesting.
[00:04:03]  It talks a lot about kind of like the hookup/slash consent culture on college campuses.
[00:04:12]  And it's, it's interesting.
[00:04:16]  Yeah, right.
[00:04:17]  Well, look, me and you, you're, I don't know, five years younger than me or something like that, but we're in our 30s.
[00:04:24]  Um, I'm in what you could even call my late 30s, um, which is 39.
[00:04:29]  So there's really no other way to describe it.
[00:04:32]  Um, and one of the things that just will be apparent here whenever these conversations come up is like the generational divide.
[00:04:41]  And even though it's not, you know, it's not like a 65-year-old talking to a 25-year-old.
[00:04:48]  You know, we're in our 30s.
[00:04:49]  This girl's probably in her early 20s, early 20s.
[00:04:51]  I'm in my late 30s.
[00:04:52]  You're in your mid-30s.
[00:04:54]  But oh my God, the enormity of the gap between the two worlds.
[00:04:59]  Like, just nothing like this existed.
[00:05:01]  Nothing like this existed when we were of, you know, the age, the normal age to go to college.
[00:05:07]  I went to college in 2002, 2003.
[00:05:14]  And I left in the same year.
[00:05:16]  I was lucky.
[00:05:16]  I didn't run into these problems at all because I just didn't get laid in college.
[00:05:19]  So, you know, I don't have to worry about it.
[00:05:23]  It seems like they're working out a way to make sure everybody's in that situation.
[00:05:26]  So, anyway, here, let's jump into this article a little bit.
[00:05:29]  There are a few things I thought were interesting to discuss.
[00:05:31]  By the way, I'm not at all reading this.
[00:05:33]  Like, I'm not attacking Emma Camp.
[00:05:35]  I think, first off, keep in mind, she's probably 21 or something like that, and she's writing about these subjects.
[00:05:39]  And I understand it's a difficult world to be in.
[00:05:44]  And I saw her getting a lot of shit from some like lefties on social media, just for, I guess, not exactly just repeating their narrative or whatever.
[00:05:56]  But the piece is called When We Consent, We Shouldn't Feel Terrible After, right?
[00:06:04]  That's the title.
[00:06:05]  So, when we consent, we shouldn't feel terrible after, right?
[00:06:08]  Question mark.
[00:06:09]  I do things all the time that are consensual and I hate myself, like eating donuts.
[00:06:13]  If I decide to eat donuts in the afternoon, I consented to eat those donuts.
[00:06:16]  I don't feel good about that decision.
[00:06:17]  Rob, but I've also, yeah, I'm here to tell you those donuts raped you.
[00:06:21]  You were raped by those donuts.
[00:06:23]  You have nothing to feel bad about.
[00:06:24]  I've definitely been drunk and had sex with someone and gone, I rather have not had done that.
[00:06:29]  But it just moved forward.
[00:06:32]  Yeah, right.
[00:06:33]  So, by the way, that attitude is so like, uh, so demonstrates the kind of generational divide that I'm talking about here.
[00:06:40]  But let's read a little bit from the article.
[00:06:41]  Okay.
[00:06:42]  It starts: one August afternoon in 2019, I performed a short play meant to make incoming freshmen at my college aware of the kinds of challenges they might face during their first year of school.
[00:06:53]  After the lights.
[00:06:55]  You couldn't have told anyone sentence that would more tell me, all right, this person sucks.
[00:07:01]  You might as well start the article by going, Hi, I'm the most annoying person you could ever possibly meet.
[00:07:07]  And our views will not align in any capacity.
[00:07:11]  Look, there is, I don't know if you had this experience at college.
[00:07:15]  I remember in like orientation freshman year going there, there were some goofy things like this that like really, it I remember at the time thinking it was so like infantilizing.

=== The Problem with Transactional Consent (16:10) ===

[00:07:31]  I don't know.
[00:07:31]  It's like, what are we all in the third grade here?
[00:07:34]  I thought we're like adults who are going off to like, you know what I mean, like explore ideas or whatever the hell college is supposed to be.
[00:07:40]  It's just, yeah, look, I know some college kids get into this type of thing.
[00:07:45]  Like they're, oh, we're going to do the skit, the skit this year and blah, blah, blah.
[00:07:48]  It's just to me so weird that this is what the topic is about.
[00:07:52]  Okay.
[00:07:53]  So after the lights dimmed on a skit about eating disorders, the topic quickly shifted and the stage opened on a party scene.
[00:08:01]  One thing led to another and a male cast member whisked me away to his bedroom, a few chairs hastily stacked together.
[00:08:07]  We traded clunky dialogue and then he leaned over and said, I'm really enjoying getting to know you.
[00:08:13]  Can I kiss you?
[00:08:15]  As directed, I paused and then enthusiastically blurted out, okay.
[00:08:19]  Things soon went terribly wrong.
[00:08:21]  My character's male partner failed to ask her for further consent and she was sexually assaulted.
[00:08:28]  Later in the play, a resident advisor helpfully said that continuing, excuse me, that consent includes a free, happy, and continuous yes, nothing less.
[00:08:38]  And if someone is unclear that they have that, then they don't have consent.
[00:08:45]  So that's what's being taught on college campuses today, that you must directly verbally ask for consent of the action, and then what they call continuous consent, meaning you have to verbally check in to ask if you still have consent, not just for every next step, like may I touch your boob, may I grab your ass, every little thing, but also like if you're having sex, to continuously be asking that they're still consenting to sex.
[00:09:15]  So in other words, they could consent to sex.
[00:09:16]  You're over your half hour.
[00:09:17]  You got to be like, are you okay with another five minutes?
[00:09:20]  Well, I mean, it's funny that you put it that way because that is the thing.
[00:09:25]  I mean, I guess the first thing that jumps out to me is just how insane I think this is.
[00:09:29]  But exactly as you just said, but that's it.
[00:09:32]  It's turning sex into a transactional experience.
[00:09:37]  And anyway, just so bizarre.
[00:09:40]  We'll probably get into this a little bit more because there's so many problems with this idea of continuous consent, which of course, by the way, is what you want.
[00:09:48]  You want consent, obviously, in sex, but the idea that this is how you go about getting it is so strange to me.
[00:09:54]  My dad, I've been enjoying the missionary position.
[00:09:57]  Might you be interested in getting on top for five minutes?
[00:10:00]  Like, could anything be less like 30 seconds?
[00:10:04]  We're 30 seconds above what you initially declared was consensual.
[00:10:09]  All right.
[00:10:10]  Every year, thousands of American college students complete some form of training designed to avert campus sexual assault by educating students on consent.
[00:10:18]  What is it?
[00:10:19]  How to ask for it?
[00:10:20]  And under which circumstances it cannot be given.
[00:10:23]  The wisdom goes that if people, particularly young straight men, understood consent, then there would be less sexual violence and women could finally feel some real sense of sexual equality.
[00:10:37]  There's a lot there, but let's just keep reading.
[00:10:40]  To be sure, consent is a precursor for ethical sex, but too often consent education doesn't teach us how to understand and learn from the sex that comes after we say yes.
[00:10:51]  With instruction focused primarily on verbal yeses and noes, young people are stuck with a woefully limited legal understanding of what sex is and ought to be instead of gaining the broader ability to articulate our sexual desires in emotionally messy situations.
[00:11:09]  We need a culture that does a better job of encouraging us to go beyond merely legal sex and to prioritize emotionally satisfying sex too.
[00:11:19]  All right.
[00:11:20]  So let's just for a second.
[00:11:23]  This is what I find so bizarre.
[00:11:25]  And it's like such a, it really is just like a generational thing, I think, and how nuts it is in the wake of kind of radical third wave feminism, the rise of this complete mythology about rape culture on college campuses and all of the kind of like nonsense activist, You know,
[00:11:51]  like propaganda data that was pushed out, you know, one in four women are raped on college campuses and all of this.
[00:11:57]  And it ushered in this Title IX radical feminist era of what that resulted in this in the continuous consent, this new standard that we must all deal with.
[00:12:12]  And that she's making a point here, which is, of course, I mean, true, but the idea that this would even need to be stated that there is a wider spectrum of sexual experiences that are not the binary of violent assault or wonderful.
[00:12:36]  There's actually a middle ground there.
[00:12:38]  Like, I just feel like none of the girls that were like in my group of friends when we were that age, and my wife, you know, for that matter, because I actually read this article as well.
[00:12:50]  And we were talking about it recently.
[00:12:52]  It's like the idea that you would be saying, hey, you know, there could be like a bad hookup that's not rape.
[00:12:58]  Like the idea that that even needs to be presented.
[00:13:01]  It's like, well, yeah, of course.
[00:13:03]  Of course, there's a wide range within these things.
[00:13:07]  And it has to do with many factors.
[00:13:09]  But the idea, the other thing that I just think is really stood out to me, which was really crazy.
[00:13:16]  And I think there's something that really speaks to something toxic in the culture that young people have.
[00:13:24]  And this is something that Jonathan Haidt has written a lot about this.
[00:13:31]  I think Jordan Peterson probably has talked a lot about this, but there's a dynamic with the younger generation that simply did not exist, at least for me and all of my friends.
[00:13:43]  And it really was captured in this sentence to me.
[00:13:48]  I mean, she says, but too often, consent education doesn't teach us how to understand and learn from the sex that comes after we say yes.
[00:13:59]  With instruction focused primarily on verbal yeses and no's, young people are stuck with woefully limited legal understandings of what sex is and ought to be, instead of gaining the broader ability to articulate our sexual desires in an emotionally messy situation.
[00:14:14]  We need a culture that does a better job of encouraging us to go beyond.
[00:14:18]  Okay.
[00:14:19]  What really stuck out to me there is consent education doesn't teach us how.
[00:14:27]  The idea that these 20-year-old, 18-year-old, 19-year-olds are they feel that they're not getting, you know, like an adequate understanding of how to from the instructor.
[00:14:47]  And they're like, I think the instructor needs to do a better job.
[00:14:51]  Like, no one in my generation ever even thought that what we need when it comes to our romantic lives is one of these teachers to teach us how to do it.
[00:15:07]  That is so bizarre to me that that's even a thought, like a thought that it's like that.
[00:15:14]  That was always a thing where we were like, hey, we got this.
[00:15:17]  Like, back off.
[00:15:18]  That's kind of the whole point of it.
[00:15:20]  Was that this is the thing we're doing without you.
[00:15:23]  Like, this is not, this wasn't something that we wanted like our psych teacher or a sociology professor or like someone to get involved in.
[00:15:32]  This was like our act of having sex is it by its very nature, it's adult activity.
[00:15:39]  This is a grown-up thing to do.
[00:15:42]  And the idea that you're, you're like, you think you're ready, like you're, you're adult enough to have sex, but you also still need like this, this teacher figure.
[00:15:53]  And I will say there is something about this that I find very connected to everything that's so wrong on college.
[00:16:05]  You know, like those gym teachers that used to be there for like a school sleepover party, just uh, you got to get those people assigned for your sexual interactions.
[00:16:13]  Whistle and all.
[00:16:14]  They'll be right there encouraging.
[00:16:16]  You go.
[00:16:16]  Hey, let's blow the whistle.
[00:16:18]  Rape.
[00:16:19]  Let's just clarify our position so we don't get ourselves in trouble.
[00:16:22]  I'd like to come wholeheartedly out as anti-rape.
[00:16:25]  And if I had to give you some advice for consent, firstly, it's not a bad first move, like the can I kiss you?
[00:16:31]  It's not a bad one.
[00:16:32]  And then you get a verbal yes, it's not bad.
[00:16:34]  And then from there, you just make sure you're not making the person uncomfortable.
[00:16:37]  And guess what?
[00:16:38]  If they don't want to do something, I think 10 out of 10 times, they usually say no.
[00:16:42]  Like I've hooked up with plenty of chicks that didn't go anywhere.
[00:16:44]  You know why?
[00:16:45]  Because they clearly didn't want to go anywhere from there.
[00:16:47]  So it's pretty simple.
[00:16:48]  I don't think there needs that much math equation professors or other people.
[00:16:53]  Well, I'll tell you, there's almost a different set of rules for how I would say I would advise someone to navigate in these waters.
[00:17:03]  Like if you're if you're a young kid in college campus like environment right now, um, versus what like my advice would have been before the rise of all this insanity, which is obviously kind of similar to what you're saying.
[00:17:16]  It's like, yeah, dude, I don't know.
[00:17:18]  There's like sex is the vast, vast majority of consensual sex does not include someone literally uttering the words, may I have permission to have sex with you now?
[00:17:33]  It's just not how it works because first off, that's so like and I hook up with women that are autistic enough.
[00:17:41]  Sometimes it does go that way.
[00:17:42]  So it's not impossible, but I'll just tell you amongst normal people, that's not the way it happens.
[00:17:46]  Yes, it's like, I don't know, because there's the whole thing about sex is like, I don't know, it's being in the moment.
[00:17:56]  It's being like spontaneous.
[00:17:58]  It's been like, I mean, this is like what is in a big part of what's enjoyable for both men and women.
[00:18:05]  And yes, you can obviously people can give you nonverbal cues.
[00:18:10]  People can also say things that are, you know, do not mean what they're literally saying.
[00:18:15]  You know, like if you say something to like to a woman and you go, oh, let's go back to my place.
[00:18:21]  And she goes, I don't know.
[00:18:23]  That's very different than going, I don't know.
[00:18:25]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:18:26]  Like those are two drastically different statements, even though they're the same words.
[00:18:31]  This is like the, I don't know, I just, this is so obvious to me.
[00:18:34]  I can't believe this even needs to be said.
[00:18:36]  But like words can mean different things.
[00:18:38]  And yes, that's what you should be looking for, like the signs that somebody's giving you.
[00:18:44]  And usually, if you're somewhat aware of that, it's very obvious.
[00:18:48]  This isn't difficult.
[00:18:49]  It's very obvious whether someone is into you or not into you.
[00:18:52]  I also think there's something very bizarre to take the crime of rape and change it from being what it is, which is like an evil, violent crime, to basically making it, it's like, oh, like it was a whoopsie.
[00:19:08]  You know what I mean?
[00:19:09]  Like it was a, it was a, oh, the guy didn't, the guy didn't realize he didn't do it right.
[00:19:13]  You know what I mean?
[00:19:14]  Like, oops, accident.
[00:19:15]  If we just gave them some more education, then men won't go out and rape, like as if that's really the problem.
[00:19:20]  Like genuine rapists are predators.
[00:19:23]  The fact that you tell them not to, like, they weren't missing education.
[00:19:27]  They go, oh, that's what consent is.
[00:19:30]  I didn't realize.
[00:19:31]  Anyway, all of that's pretty bizarre.
[00:19:33]  The other thing, which seems pretty obvious to me, but She says we need a culture that does a better job of encouraging us to go beyond merely legal sex and to prioritize emotionally satisfying sex, too.
[00:19:47]  Now it's an interesting term to say emotionally satisfying sex.
[00:19:54]  That is, if you want a culture that's actually going to encourage an understanding of any of this stuff, there is no way to achieve that culture without acknowledging one very basic reality,
[00:20:11]  which is that men and women are different and for the most part have different desires when it comes to what they want out of sexual encounters.
[00:20:28]  Your generation can try as much as they want to force that into not being reality, but it still is because that's the thing about biology.
[00:20:37]  It just doesn't go away, even if you want it to, which again, of course, speaks to a larger trend amongst like progressive, you know, like ideology of young people.
[00:20:47]  You know how many women out there also you would tell them emotionally satisfying, so they'd be like, gross, I'm trying to get.
[00:20:53]  Well, there are some of those.
[00:20:55]  So I'm just saying, it's like, speak for yourself, lady.
[00:20:58]  And if you're looking for emotionally satisfying sex, it sounds to me like you're trying to date.
[00:21:03]  So go date.
[00:21:04]  Go do what you're looking to do.
[00:21:05]  No one's keeping you from it.
[00:21:07]  So this is kind of to what I was saying before.
[00:21:09]  Like, if I were advising, if I had like a young man who's like a family member, a friend who I really cared about, who's 20 years old on college campuses today in this culture, I would really encourage them.
[00:21:22]  I'd be like, just don't have drunk hookups.
[00:21:26]  Just don't.
[00:21:27]  Which is, by the way, I mean, I know that can be a lot of fun at that age.
[00:21:34]  From my perspective, being a little bit older now, it's not the worst thing in the world to forego that or at least put it off till later in life.
[00:21:40]  But I would just say, in this environment, you're just, it's too, it's just too much of a risk.
[00:21:45]  Like, just as a risk-reward calculation, you'd go, you're just, you're in an environment now where any accusation could ruin your life.
[00:21:53]  And how the hell can you prove that you asked for continuous consent?
[00:21:57]  And how the hell, like, the standard of continuous consent is all so ridiculous.
[00:22:01]  I mean, what it's like, okay, so the theory is that it can't just be that you just got consent at the beginning, right?
[00:22:08]  You got to film it if you change it.
[00:22:09]  You can show it to your friends.
[00:22:10]  That's the only way to do it.
[00:22:11]  Yeah, really.
[00:22:12]  It's like, well, the idea is like, if you get consent before you have sex with someone, they could have a change of heart at some point, right?
[00:22:19]  And not be enjoying it anymore.
[00:22:21]  And so you want to check in that you still have consent with them.
[00:22:24]  That's kind of the theory.
[00:22:26]  What's ridiculous about this theory is that, like, okay, so how many times do you have to check in?
[00:22:33]  What about in between every pump?
[00:22:35]  Oh, right.
[00:22:35]  Every pump.
[00:22:36]  What if in the middle?
[00:22:38]  And what if in the middle of a pump?
[00:22:39]  In between pumps.
[00:22:40]  She's, you see what I'm saying here?
[00:22:43]  Yeah, well, even, even so, split second, she could, she could have a disagreement.
[00:22:47]  You know what I mean?
[00:22:48]  I'm just saying it's like the thing starts to fall apart on itself, unless it would have to be a complete asking for consent the entire way through.
[00:22:59]  This standard is insane.
[00:23:01]  A much more reasonable standard, which actually treats women like adults, would be if you consent to an act and then start the act, if you change your mind, it's on you to say something.
[00:23:16]  That's kind of was always the standard and is just a much more reasonable standard.
[00:23:21]  And no, I'm sorry, I don't think that that's unreasonable to ask of anyone.
[00:23:28]  I mean, I think this is in general the case of like, like, it doesn't even have to be sex.
[00:23:32]  If we're just, since we're breaking this down just to a transaction of whether it's consensual or not, this would be true for anything.
[00:23:37]  You know, if I if you offer me a ride in your car, and I'm like, Yeah, sure, I'll take a ride.

=== When Cases Turn Completely Fabricated (03:50) ===

[00:23:42]  And then I get in and I decide I don't really want to be in this car anymore, I want to get out of it.
[00:23:45]  I have to say, hey, you know what, pull over here and let me out.
[00:23:48]  I can't just go, He didn't continuously ask me if I wanted this ride, and therefore he kidnapped me.
[00:23:53]  It's just this is goofy.
[00:23:55]  Um, okay, anyway, the other thing, of course, what I was getting at before is that, you know, if you want to talk about emotionally satisfying sex, there are the chicks that you're talking about who are basically have, you know, they used to say it.
[00:24:08]  I remember all these girls used to say, I'm just, I'm like a guy when it comes to sex.
[00:24:12]  By the way, 99% of them didn't mean that, and it wasn't actually true, but they used to pretend that.
[00:24:18]  But for the vast majority of women, you're not going to find emotionally satisfying sex in drunk hookup culture.
[00:24:24]  You might find good sex that you enjoyed, but you're not going to find emotional satisfaction out of that.
[00:24:31]  That's just the truth for the vast majority of women.
[00:24:34]  And there are real biological reasons why this is the case.
[00:24:37]  I was drinking at this frat party and he wouldn't let me read in my poetry.
[00:24:41]  Yeah, right.
[00:24:44]  All right.
[00:24:44]  In the 2010s, a series of horrific high-profile campus sexual assault allegations led to a discussion of sex that was suspicious of young men's sexual desires.
[00:24:54]  Feminist activists wasn't there like a Rolling Stones thing that turned out to be like fabricated.
[00:24:59]  Yes, there were.
[00:25:00]  Well, that was the UVA case, which turned out to be completely fabricated.
[00:25:04]  There was the Duke LaCrosse case, which turned out to be completely fabricated.
[00:25:07]  So the truth is, it should have led to a very different conversation than the one that it did lead to.
[00:25:14]  Feminist activists argued that preventing sexual assault entailed reversing the expectations of heterosex, of heterosexual sex, not of women saying no to stop an advance, but of men asking for a yes to start one.
[00:25:30]  By 2015, at least 1,400 colleges had adopted such definitions of consent, and a cottage industry of consent training had cropped up.
[00:25:39]  A consent-based view of sexual ethics has now become common.
[00:25:43]  Now, to talk about sex and morality is for the most part to talk about consent.
[00:25:51]  So, yeah, I mean, one of the things that's that's pretty interesting about this is that you talk about how, first of all, like you said, so many of these high-profile cases ended up being complete bullshit.
[00:26:03]  And, but regardless, by 2015, we have 1,400 colleges who have changed the definition of consent.
[00:26:11]  What might jump out at you there that's kind of interesting is like if you're when you're talking about consent, you're talking about uh legality, you're talking about the line between a heinous, vicious crime and something that's legal.
[00:26:31]  Why exactly would this be the role of college campuses to determine?
[00:26:36]  We would typically think this would be the role of government.
[00:26:41]  We're not pro-government people here on this podcast, it's just like the idea that college campuses are now making themselves, in a sense, a government where they will determine who they will determine who is a rapist and who is not.
[00:26:54]  And again, as I said, by a ridiculous standard, but like by a ridiculous standard.
[00:26:59]  Well, the idea of there are there are tons of um actions in life far less intimate than uh than than sex, where you do not need to verbalize the words, I consent, before in you know doing something.
[00:27:19]  You know, if you like, I don't have to say to you before we start this podcast, do you consent to be on this podcast?
[00:27:27]  Do you consent to have your you know, the video of this up on YouTube or whatever?

=== Implied Consent Outside College Campuses (02:25) ===

[00:27:32]  Because it's like obviously implied by the fact that you're here.
[00:27:35]  And like, you know, like, now I'm not saying, by the way, don't take that the wrong way.
[00:27:40]  I'm not saying you consent to sex by being somewhere, but if you like, I don't know, if a guy asks you back to his place and you go with him and you both get naked together and you both go into his bed at a certain point, like, do the words really need to be said?
[00:27:57]  Or is it just kind of like everyone can read the mood?
[00:28:00]  This is, by the way, how it works outside of the college campus world for adults.
[00:28:05]  This is how adults.
[00:28:06]  And with all that said, if you are naked in the bed and you get a no, that's a no.
[00:28:11]  But I don't think you have to go, hey, is it okay if I now do this?
[00:28:17]  Exactly.
[00:28:17]  Exactly.
[00:28:18]  At that point, yes, I think it's reasonable to say the obligation is on you to be like, I'm sorry, actually, I don't want to do this.
[00:28:24]  And then if you do, he absolutely has to listen to you, or that is a violent crime, obviously.
[00:28:30]  But like, I don't know, this stuff just seems so obvious to people of us.
[00:28:33]  I think the one thing that you're missing with the college campuses is that they're a magical place where gender studies can make you money in the career world.
[00:28:41]  You can have the world male on your license and, you know, dress up as a leprechaun.
[00:28:46]  I think you're not understanding the way college operates.
[00:28:50]  So, you know, consent doesn't have to be a legal yes or no.
[00:28:53]  They can create their own, you know, rules within their little magical framework.
[00:28:57]  Yeah, really.
[00:28:58]  Geez.
[00:28:59]  All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Axe Head Watches.
[00:29:05]  Axe Head watches are made out of real wood.
[00:29:07]  The company is proudly libertarian-owned.
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[00:29:52]  Promo code Dave for 25% off.
[00:29:55]  All right, let's get back into the show.

=== Painful Stories of Bad Hookups (14:35) ===

[00:29:57]  All right.
[00:29:57]  The language we've learned in these programs has become part of our everyday conversations.
[00:30:02]  When my friends and I talk about our love lives, we tend to share the same kinds of stories almost ritualistically.
[00:30:07]  Usually we'll be sitting on the floor of a dorm room or a cheap apartment, drinking discount hard seltzer, a boxed wine.
[00:30:13]  As the night wears on, a little buzzed, we share the glory details of our fledging romantic encounters between tales of bad bumble dates, dance floor makeouts, and Olivia Rodrigo worthy breakups.
[00:30:25]  Almost all of us have had the same experience.
[00:30:27]  A time we were asked explicitly for consent and we wanted to say no, where we could have said no and just didn't.
[00:30:34]  Inevitably, someone will ask, well, did you say yes?
[00:30:37]  The answer is almost always that we did.
[00:30:39]  But despite that, we're left with an unshakable uneasiness.
[00:30:42]  We said yes, but we didn't know why.
[00:30:45]  These experiences are so confusing to talk about because on paper, everything went perfectly.
[00:30:49]  If you consent, you shouldn't feel terrible, right?
[00:30:53]  Let me just stop for a second.
[00:30:54]  Well, let me just say, I give her a little bit of credit for writing this piece because I think she's trying to grapple with something real.
[00:31:02]  Like, I think she is really telling the truth about what her experiences are with her friends and this problem.
[00:31:07]  But it's almost like no one's looking at the obvious thing here, which is that, like, okay.
[00:31:15]  So she kind of lays out this new standard of how you need it, get a yes, and this new standard of continuous consent and this new kind of, I don't know how to describe it, like this new like hookup regime that was basically Rose up in the second in Barack Obama's second term.
[00:31:35]  Really, you know, if you look at this, it's it's I would say as much as kind of in the 60s, what they refer to as the sexual revolution, this is in a way like a revolution.
[00:31:46]  Like, this is a revolution of norms amongst how 20-year-olds like romantically engage with each other.
[00:31:55]  That's a pretty drastic thing, you know, like to be like, oh, we've changed the standard from being that no means no to being not getting a verbal yes means no.
[00:32:05]  That's a very profound change.
[00:32:06]  Now, she seems to take in this article that almost as a given.
[00:32:10]  Like, obviously, that's correct, but what, you know, what else is there to say?
[00:32:15]  What more do we need to say?
[00:32:17]  But what she's sitting here kind of talking about how, like, oh, really, if you look at this and you listen, you read between the lines of what she just said, it's like, oh, yeah.
[00:32:27]  And this has not made the women happy.
[00:32:30]  This has not led to them feeling emotionally, you know, like emotionally happy or whatever.
[00:32:38]  I forget the exact term she used before.
[00:32:42]  What's happening here is that it's like, oh, yeah, none of this ever dealt with what the issue was at all.
[00:32:49]  You were always in these cases just talking about bad hookups, not really rape.
[00:32:54]  I shouldn't say always, but in a huge, huge portion of them, you were conflating bad hookups with rape.
[00:33:02]  Bad hookups can still happen.
[00:33:04]  Hookups that you regret are still going to happen.
[00:33:07]  And the truth is that this whole, I would almost guarantee that this standard of continuous consent has just completely sapped the enjoyment out of this, like so much of this experience.
[00:33:21]  I mean, we're still biological creatures, so there's still going to be like some enjoyment that you get out of sex.
[00:33:26]  But the idea that could you, how could it possibly not kill the mood for both people involved to have to verbally, you know what I mean, in like literal contractual form, ask for consent.
[00:33:40]  Imagine, look, I imagine from both perspectives, right?
[00:33:43]  First off, from the guy's perspective, I mean, Rob, try to think also, we're like in our 30s now.
[00:33:49]  You're just a little bit more like, you know, who you are as a man a lot more in your 30s.
[00:33:53]  And in your early 20s and your late teens, you're much more insecure about who you are as a person, particularly in this, in the romantic department.
[00:34:02]  Can you imagine if you had to utter the words, you know what I mean?
[00:34:06]  Like be like, do I have consent to have sex with you?
[00:34:09]  And then you had to constantly check in.
[00:34:11]  You're checking in to find out if you're a rapist.
[00:34:14]  Like literally, you're like checking in the next moment to find out, like, hey, by the way, is this a horrifically brutal crime?
[00:34:20]  Or are we still on the same page that we're just hooking up?
[00:34:23]  I mean, the amount of like anxiety and just like how much that would kill the mood for the guy, I just can't imagine.
[00:34:30]  And then for the girl, like, I mean, I'm sorry, like, is there anything that is less appealing to a woman than they literally call it being swept off your feet?
[00:34:40]  I don't think too many women are interested in, you know, like I said, do I have permission to sweep you off of your feet?
[00:34:48]  Do you consent to me sweeping you?
[00:34:50]  Okay, then let me sweep you off your feet.
[00:34:52]  So it's just like, of course, this is going to lead to them feeling terrible, as she put it.
[00:34:59]  And the other thing, of course, is that there's no real conversation about the fact that, like, yeah, like women, just being in a series of meaningless hookups is going to make the vast majority of women feel terrible because that's reality.
[00:35:14]  And that for all this new stuff that this generation kind of like feels like, well, we understand all this about consent, whereas the previous generations didn't, previous generations understood this basic truth much better than you guys do.
[00:35:27]  That it was like, it was just like, yeah, no, like men are dogs and women are looking for something a little bit more serious.
[00:35:34]  That is not 100% of the time the case, but it is the overwhelming majority that is the case.
[00:35:42]  I'm sorry, go ahead, Rob.
[00:35:44]  Uh, well, I agree with everything you said.
[00:35:47]  And when this lady talks about how, well, we've all had these experiences where we were asked, we said yes, and then we felt bad about it.
[00:35:54]  So, I would say that's that's not just a sex thing, that's called life.
[00:35:57]  That's a problem that us, and I put myself in the us category, weaker people have to deal with, where you get a call from someone, you're like, Hey, you want to come over and help me clean my whole house and watch my kids, and then you're there.
[00:36:06]  You're like, Why the fuck did I say yes to this?
[00:36:09]  Why would I agree to this?
[00:36:10]  So, that is something that you're going to have to deal with in your life that you're going to have to feel figure out how to be a stronger person and say no when you think people are imposing on you.
[00:36:20]  And as you're younger, that's harder to do.
[00:36:22]  And so, maybe you're confronting that more with sex than you are with like a boss giving you work that's outside of your job description.
[00:36:29]  And now you're home all weekend and you're like, Why did I agree to do this?
[00:36:32]  I'm not being paid for it.
[00:36:33]  Like, that's something that you're going to have to deal with.
[00:36:35]  It's not just a sex thing and it sucks, but like, that's just life.
[00:36:39]  Like, you're not going to get around that.
[00:36:40]  It is part of life.
[00:36:41]  And that's kind of the thing that, like, if you want to have a really honest conversation about this, you'd be like, Hey, look, you're engaged in an adult activity right now.
[00:36:49]  And being an adult comes with some fucking things that kind of suck, but that you have to deal with.
[00:36:54]  And I will certainly say, I think this is more difficult for women, this particular thing within sexual dynamics.
[00:37:03]  I think that like women are more often in the situation where they're being pursued by a guy they're not interested in, and it's kind of awkward and uncomfortable.
[00:37:13]  And that, if you really want to have a conversation about that, that would like there'd be some good advice to give young girls that it's like, Yeah, listen, this is kind of why if you don't want to have sex with the guy, don't go back to his dorm room with him, don't go back to his, don't go back to his also, don't pursue the attention, just cut it off early.
[00:37:33]  You gotta like, yes, if you kind of play into the game because you like having dinner or whatever other benefits are coming from the earlier attention, you're gonna have to learn.
[00:37:41]  That's actually the power that you have is that people are coming up to you and pursuing you, which believe me, the other side of it, which is rejection has its own problems and pain to it.
[00:37:51]  Yes, so like learn the power that you have and learn how to deal with it, you know?
[00:37:56]  Yeah, no, completely.
[00:37:57]  And then I just, what these people are talking about with I guess them feeling uncomfortable with consensual experiences, like this is also a mental strength thing.
[00:38:05]  It's like it doesn't have to ruin your life.
[00:38:07]  Like, if you weren't actually raped and you're dealing with like, dude, your early like breakups and that kind of shit, they're fucking heartbreaking.
[00:38:14]  Like, when that first chick dumps you, like, I don't know, it fucking hurts in your stuff.
[00:38:19]  Believe me, you got to go through it and it's not fun, but like everyone goes through it.
[00:38:23]  You're not special.
[00:38:24]  You don't need a trauma counselor.
[00:38:26]  Like, you know what I mean?
[00:38:27]  If you're almost romanticizing the pain that you're feeling and thinking that it's special that you're feeling this pain, and so someone needs to go change, you're asking people to change the nature of our reality in life to better protect you from confronting negative emotions.
[00:38:41]  You're going to have to go through this, figure out how to be a stronger person, and you'll live a better life.
[00:38:45]  But this is what life is.
[00:38:47]  You're literally describing life.
[00:38:49]  You're going to have just to go back to this, the kind of proves your point to the next paragraph.
[00:38:55]  The primary fear articulated by my friends in these situations is impoliteness.
[00:38:59]  They often feel that enduring the awkwardness of turning someone down is ultimately worse than unwanted sex.
[00:39:06]  Being the source of someone's disappointment should not be worth more than our dignity, yet it is a calculus that seems nearly ubiquitous among young women I know.
[00:39:18]  Well, there's, you know, it kind of backs up what you're saying there.
[00:39:21]  Um, that it's like, yeah, well, you don't want to be impolite.
[00:39:24]  You don't want to have this awkward kind of conversation.
[00:39:27]  So, you're like, I'll just do it.
[00:39:28]  And I think a lot of women, you know, probably have been in situations like that in their life.
[00:39:33]  So, if you want to have an honest conversation with women, it would be more something like this.
[00:39:38]  And I think she even got it there when she says, worth more than our dignity.
[00:39:42]  And you're like, oh, yeah.
[00:39:43]  So, you do acknowledge that you're kind of giving up your dignity to have sex with someone you don't want to have sex with.
[00:39:49]  There's an admission in there.
[00:39:50]  And the honest conversation would be something like this.
[00:39:53]  It would be like, look, men are hornballs.
[00:39:58]  Like, you're dealing with 19-year-old boys, men here.
[00:40:04]  They are looking to fuck.
[00:40:06]  And you are going to feel like crap if you just spread your legs for every one of them.
[00:40:11]  So be aware of that and don't put yourself in a situation where you're going to feel like, oh, shit, I'm so uncomfortable to like say no to this guy.
[00:40:19]  You know what I mean?
[00:40:20]  It sounds like the better class would be the tools for politely turning people down.
[00:40:26]  It sounds like the class that these women need are not consensual yes classes for men.
[00:40:31]  It's better classes for how you can politely say no or take yourself out of situations that you feel uncomfortable in.
[00:40:38]  Yeah.
[00:40:39]  Well, here's the um, here's another interesting thing.
[00:40:42]  Personal safety and strength.
[00:40:44]  And I know that we, I'm sure we come off sounding like dicks to some of these like types who who believe in this shit, but it's like, oh, I'm sorry.
[00:40:51]  These are hard, these are harsh truths, but this is the actual advice that will help you in these situations.
[00:40:56]  All right.
[00:40:57]  The next paragraph reads: One friend told me about a first date gone wrong.
[00:41:01]  She remarked to me with a sigh, he made her a three-course meal.
[00:41:05]  He brought really nice wine.
[00:41:06]  It would be too awkward to leave.
[00:41:08]  When she stayed, it was incredibly unpleasant, like making out with an octopus.
[00:41:13]  She hated it.
[00:41:14]  They texted briefly in the following days before she finally ended things and blocked his number.
[00:41:20]  Okay.
[00:41:22]  Here's the deal with that.
[00:41:24]  The advice to give here is that, like, look, you can, if you're willing to do it, just say no afterward.
[00:41:34]  You have to work up the fucking courage to just say no.
[00:41:38]  But really, don't take the three-course meal if you're not interested in the guy.
[00:41:44]  That's kind of the thing here because you did, you felt in a way, I think, your own sense of like, I mean, this guy just cooked me a three-course meal.
[00:41:54]  I kind of feel like I owe something to him.
[00:41:57]  And I'm not saying you technically do, but there's a reason why you feel that way.
[00:42:03]  Because he did a whole thing for you, obviously, because he wanted something.
[00:42:07]  And you were quite willing to take the part that he was doing for you.
[00:42:10]  So if you don't want to give him what he obviously wants, then don't take the thing he's doing for you to obviously get the thing he obviously wants.
[00:42:19]  This is real basic shit, man.
[00:42:22]  Like, I don't know what to tell you.
[00:42:23]  It's like, but that's, that should be, that should be the lesson that you get out of all of this.
[00:42:29]  Um, experiences like these are common, but they aren't stories of sexual assault.
[00:42:33]  We freely consented without fear of violence and often with the coveted verbal yes.
[00:42:39]  Kind of acknowledging the verbal yes isn't really even the issue here.
[00:42:42]  Yes, obviously, these aren't stories of assault.
[00:42:45]  After all, asking young men to mind to be mind readers seems neither practical nor fair.
[00:42:51]  I appreciate her saying that.
[00:42:53]  Everything went according to script.
[00:42:54]  Why then did we go through with sex we didn't want?
[00:42:59]  And why didn't we have a way to talk about why we did?
[00:43:03]  College students today often become sexually active with little to guide them beyond perhaps abundant pornography.
[00:43:12]  There is some evidence that teenagers are waiting longer to start having sex.
[00:43:15]  And when they do, they're having less casual sex.
[00:43:19]  Consent education takes already anxious, inexperienced young people and gives them a simplistic binary way of understanding sex.
[00:43:27]  Um, it's no surprise that many of us have absorbed the message that sex is a straightforward transaction with little room for complicated feelings.
[00:43:35]  So, what I would disagree with her on is that I don't think the issue here is that it's a simplistic, binary way of understanding sex.
[00:43:44]  I think it's more what she said later: that it's a transactional way of understanding sex.
[00:43:48]  It's a um, uh, uh, it's a completely like robbed of its poetry, of its beauty, of its spontaneity.
[00:44:00]  It's, it's, it's, um, like this clinical lab laboratory way of looking at sex, where it's kind of like, oh, yes, there has to be this verbal transaction before that.
[00:44:12]  It's literally like if you were to say, right before sex, you have to sit down and do a bunch of paperwork.
[00:44:18]  What would that like?
[00:44:20]  What would the effect of that be?
[00:44:22]  Could it possibly be to kill the enjoyment of it?
[00:44:25]  Like, yes, it's that the truth is that, like, that's what that's what makes sex sex.

=== Investing in Crypto and Precious Metals (02:44) ===

[00:44:33]  And you've robbed that from these young people.
[00:44:36]  And then you're wondering why, like, it looks even by their saying, oh, this seems like people are having less sex and people are starting late and having less casual sex.
[00:44:44]  It's like, well, yeah, because you've made it a goddamn nightmare with these ridiculous rules, all in the name of stopping a problem that does not exist in the magnitude that people are making it out like it does.
[00:44:57]  There's not like, look, you're not going to have drunk hookup culture without people having hookups that they regret.
[00:45:04]  But conflating hookups that you regret with rape is insane and does nothing to help anybody.
[00:45:10]  And as is kind of being demonstrated here, certainly doesn't do anything to make women happier.
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[00:47:15]  Let's get back into the show.

=== Different Roles in Modern Romance (14:56) ===

[00:47:17]  Okay, so she says, even though consent is essential, when it dominates our discussions about sex, we don't learn enough about our power to do more than refuse or approve advances.
[00:47:26]  We don't learn what we owe our partner beyond simply not committing a crime against them.
[00:47:31]  And we don't learn to navigate the complexities of loving and making love to another person.
[00:47:36]  The best sex is as rewarding emotionally as it is physically.
[00:47:40]  This requires this is so like you're describing what you're looking for, which is fine, and you can go find it.
[00:47:48]  But to try and, I hate when people do this, to try and recreate rules so that everyone's pursuing the one thing you're looking for.
[00:47:55]  So that when you show up for a date, you know that it's the exact that does not exist.
[00:47:59]  You're not going to find it.
[00:48:00]  There are plenty of other women that don't want what you're describing.
[00:48:03]  They're not looking for what you're describing.
[00:48:05]  And so how do we all navigate this thing?
[00:48:08]  It's by going out, taking some risks, you know, and making some decisions that work for you.
[00:48:13]  But to just like to assume, like, if you want every person in the counterparty to be showing up on a date with the presumption of marriage, then you got to go find a community of people that operate that way.
[00:48:23]  It's probably in a church, synagogue, or otherwise, or you got to make it like, you got to state that up front when you're going on a date of, hey, this is what I'm looking for.
[00:48:30]  And guess what?
[00:48:31]  If you live in a plain reality or area where no one else on the counterparty is looking for that, then you probably have to change your expectations.
[00:48:37]  I know that this is like fucking a very autisty, linear way of looking at it, but I'm just saying this dumb young college kid is living in this cartoon reality that a lot of, I hear this from a lot of women and liberals where they go, hey, I don't like the rules of this game.
[00:48:54]  And so I want to change it so that it's more in line with what I'm looking for.
[00:48:58]  And that's not the way the world works.
[00:49:00]  Well, there's also something where you've so, um, you know, you've so kind of like demonized the other side that they're probably very hesitant to speak their mind.
[00:49:18]  And in the, you know, when you were talking about other things with left wingers, it ends up being right wingers.
[00:49:22]  But in this situation, it's, it's men.
[00:49:24]  It's the young men involved.
[00:49:26]  So probably it's almost kind of like, yeah, if you were always like one inch away from being called a rapist, you'd probably be pretty hesitant to like speak up about some of these things too.
[00:49:37]  But like what you're not getting is that, look, if you're talking about 19 year olds having drunk hookups, most of the men, the vast, vast, vast majority of the men are not looking for sex that is rewarding emotionally.
[00:49:55]  And if you're operating under the assumption that they are, man, are you going to be completely confused about this whole game?
[00:50:01]  You're going to be really not understand what's going on and not understand why you're constantly not finding the happiness that you're looking for.
[00:50:08]  This was, this is such like, this is, this is ancient wisdom that people have understood forever that somehow has been lost on this new generation that decided they were going to completely rewrite the rules in the name of equality, but then also had to grapple with the fact that there's this clear inequality.
[00:50:27]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:50:28]  So then they have to make this like continuous yes standard because you can't actually like it's so right in front of you.
[00:50:35]  But so now you don't, here's the thing.
[00:50:37]  What you're looking for when you say sex that is rewarding emotionally and not just physically, what you're talking about is a, and say it with me now, relationship, not a hookup.
[00:50:57]  That's the difference.
[00:50:59]  That's it.
[00:51:00]  And I don't know how else to explain this.
[00:51:01]  Hookups are not emotionally rewarding.
[00:51:05]  They are physically rewarding.
[00:51:07]  And if you're going to be miserable or unhappy with just physically rewarding, then don't fuck random people.
[00:51:17]  Get into a relationship with somebody.
[00:51:19]  This is so, by the way, to my entire generation and all the girls that I knew that like I grew up with, they, every one of them knew this.
[00:51:26]  This was just like a basic understood truth.
[00:51:28]  And in the same way that you think it's so crazy that like they didn't have to get a verbal, they didn't have to give a verbal yes.
[00:51:35]  Our standard was just like, if someone says no, then stop.
[00:51:39]  Not that you must check in and keep getting yes, Every time you wanted to touch another body part, as much as you might think that's old and outdated, that we think the fact that you don't realize that if you want emotionally rewarding sex, you have to get some type of commitment from the guy before you just give it up to him.
[00:51:55]  We think that's equally crazy.
[00:51:57]  And by the way, we're right and you're wrong.
[00:51:59]  But anyway, go ahead.
[00:52:00]  Well, this is like if you writing an article, because it's just such a lefty thing.
[00:52:04]  I'm a young female.
[00:52:06]  And when I show up to an office, I want to feel empowered as a, you know, what you're describing being needy because the men who are working in that office, they just want to work and succeed.
[00:52:15]  And they don't want to be thinking about, oh, am I meeting the emotional needs of the young 21-year-olds who just showed up to our office?
[00:52:21]  That's called showing up as the new person to an office.
[00:52:23]  It's a threatening place.
[00:52:24]  You have to perform.
[00:52:25]  People don't like you.
[00:52:26]  This is no different than that to me, where you're essentially describing being needy.
[00:52:31]  And so that makes me uncool and unlikable.
[00:52:33]  And guess what?
[00:52:34]  I bet the relationship you're looking for, it exists, but you got to go find some nerdy, shy kid that you probably don't currently find attractive.
[00:52:41]  See, I don't know if I completely agree with that.
[00:52:43]  See, I think it is completely reasonable for a young woman to be like, look, I'm not trying to just get fucked.
[00:52:51]  Like, I want like someone who cares about me and I want to have like something that's like emotionally like rewarding for me as well.
[00:52:57]  I think that's completely reasonable.
[00:53:00]  I think though, that the way that works is that you have to make that clear.
[00:53:07]  And again, you don't have to literally say these words because that's not how romance works, but you kind of make it clear that it's like, oh, yeah, you're not going to get this unless you give me that.
[00:53:20]  And I know that does sound kind of dry and transactional, but like, no, I mean, it doesn't have to be done in such a like dry, verbal way.
[00:53:27]  But like, that's kind of the standard then, that you let that be known.
[00:53:31]  That it's like, okay, well, if you want to like, you know, if you want to see me naked and do what you want to do to me, then I'm going to need you to like, I don't know, treat me well, date me for a little bit, have some standards before you give the guy what he wants.
[00:53:45]  And then like, you can have that.
[00:53:47]  But you can't just go out and have random hookups and be like, fuck, why isn't this happening for me?
[00:53:52]  This is so, you know, I need better instruction from the teachers or something.
[00:53:55]  The teachers need to lay down better ground rules for all of the boys of what they're supposed to do.
[00:54:00]  It's just not the way you're.
[00:54:01]  I'll say it's a numbers game.
[00:54:03]  You might just have not have done enough drunken hookups.
[00:54:05]  You know, you go through enough.
[00:54:06]  There you go.
[00:54:07]  You might find that special someone.
[00:54:08]  Yeah, maybe.
[00:54:10]  It happens when you're out there and you realize, oh, maybe there's something a little bit more here.
[00:54:14]  Yes, there we go.
[00:54:15]  Okay.
[00:54:15]  This requires trust in both our partner and ourselves.
[00:54:19]  When we trust ourselves to know what we want and have the language to articulate those wants to others, sex becomes more than the transactional experience common under the current norms.
[00:54:33]  That's kind of a little word salad-y to me.
[00:54:35]  I mean, I think that like I don't completely disagree.
[00:54:40]  It's like, yeah, you got to kind of figure out what you want, but like, yeah, you also have to be honest about what you want and what the guys want.
[00:54:47]  And the fact is that they're often not exactly the same thing.
[00:54:51]  That doesn't mean one can't be molded to the other, but it's you're going to have to actually get in touch with the differences before that.
[00:55:01]  Valuing one another as equal people, not just as bodies to extract consent from, forces partners to recognize our moral duty to one another, namely that concern for others' pleasure also means concern for their dignity.
[00:55:22]  Here's the thing, right?
[00:55:23]  And this is where lefty kind of progressive, like the progressive ethos, it really clouds people's judgments.
[00:55:35]  And I understand, I think this girl's a libertarian, but she's still so clearly operating within the current, like, whatever you want to call it, within the cultural dynamic, which is a very like an extremely left-wing culture, is that there's something about like just the fact that she accepts the whole continuous consent thing and then moves on from there.
[00:56:02]  It's like, well, that's great, but what else do we need?
[00:56:04]  And is kind of unwilling to actually look at that and go, oh, maybe that is actually not at all necessary and contributing to how unhappy both men and women are in this situation.
[00:56:14]  By the way, this is not, just to be clear, it's not like I'm just like kind of pulling out of my ass that they're less happy.
[00:56:21]  That's kind of why this article is interesting.
[00:56:23]  And I give her credit for writing the article.
[00:56:25]  It's like part of why it's interesting is that, no, like this stuff, this is not the only thing, but this is a big contributor to the fact that like young people are substantially more miserable than they have ever been before.
[00:56:36]  There was one stat out recently that one, one in four young people, people under 28 years old, I think was the number, one in four of them have seriously considered suicide within the last 30 days.
[00:56:51]  This is like a very, this isn't just like, oh, I've thought about suicide or something like that, like seriously considered it in the last 30 days.
[00:56:58]  There's a real epidemic of like depression and anxiety amongst young people.
[00:57:03]  And if you're unwilling to even question kind of like, well, what is going on in this whole cultural structure?
[00:57:10]  It's hard to get at the root of it.
[00:57:14]  Part of it is that there's actually no, there's absolutely no like meaningfulness in these fucking random hookups.
[00:57:25]  Certainly, I think makes young women very, very miserable.
[00:57:29]  But she says the thing, and this is what I mean about just like internalizing or accepting the progressive left-wing ethos without critically challenging it.
[00:57:37]  She says, valuing one another as equal people forces partners to recognize our moral duty to one another.
[00:57:47]  Sex is not about equality.
[00:57:52]  And the idea that it is is so removed from reality.
[00:57:58]  Sex is not about equals.
[00:58:02]  It's even in same-sex relationships, they're not about equals, right?
[00:58:07]  It's not about equality.
[00:58:08]  There are tops and bottoms.
[00:58:10]  There are people playing two very different roles.
[00:58:13]  Go ahead.
[00:58:14]  I'm going to contradict something you said.
[00:58:17]  So I believe the polling data you read is probably accurate, but a bad poll.
[00:58:21]  Because if I'm looking at a chart of people in the age bracket of 20 to 30, there's not much of an increase in actual suicide.
[00:58:33]  Yeah.
[00:58:34]  Okay.
[00:58:35]  Yeah.
[00:58:35]  It's not really clear to see that there.
[00:58:37]  Okay.
[00:58:38]  There may not be an increase in.
[00:58:39]  I'm just saying that's dumb Facebook.
[00:58:41]  Like, that's just dumb Facebook hitting the right kids and going, do you feel more suicidal?
[00:58:45]  And they go, sure, I do.
[00:58:47]  I mean, if you get it, if you had a drastic increase in the amount of people that say that they wanted to commit suicide and that was an accurate poll, it'd be reflected in actual suicides.
[00:58:56]  Perhaps you'd also have to look at suicide attempts, which is another, you know, like thing.
[00:59:00]  Okay, yes, it's a little bit preventing them.
[00:59:02]  Well, it's a little bit different than actually killing yourself, but it still speaks to some real underlying issue that I think any data, because I took issue with this at one of the debates that I saw recently about face.
[00:59:15]  Like, I think any data over the last two years about people's personal misery would be heavily influenced by the response to Corona.
[00:59:24]  So, like, I almost think the data said in any capacity.
[00:59:28]  That's probably a very fair point.
[00:59:29]  That's probably a very fair point, particularly if you're including the last two years.
[00:59:32]  But anyway, back to the point, like the idea of like searching for equality in sex, I find to be very strange.
[00:59:40]  I think it's very strange to say that the idea here is that we both treat each other as equals.
[00:59:45]  Now, the idea that you should both treat each other well, I think that's good.
[00:59:50]  I think that, but the truth is that the term equal, like, means the same.
[00:59:59]  That's what it means that you're both the same.
[01:00:03]  And that's just not true.
[01:00:05]  That's, that's never true in sexual relationships.
[01:00:08]  And this is going to be right at the heart of why this isn't working is that this is by just by reality and by biology.
[01:00:16]  This is not what people are looking for in sex.
[01:00:19]  People play different roles.
[01:00:21]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:00:22]  Like, people play different roles, and that's what they look for.
[01:00:24]  Like, even, like I said, even within like gay couples, same-sex couples, they play different roles.
[01:00:29]  They are not equals.
[01:00:31]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:00:32]  Like, a top and a bottom are not the same.
[01:00:34]  It's like one person enjoys one role and the other person enjoys the other role.
[01:00:37]  And like, even if they like switch, then they're enjoying one role and the other one's enjoying the other role.
[01:00:42]  It's never like an e like, and men generally speaking like women and women generally speaking like men.
[01:00:50]  That's not, if you're trying to force this kind of like idea of equality, of sameness into it, you're going to destroy what most people are looking for.
[01:01:00]  Um, okay, so the next paragraph says, sex education should start from the assertion that each person deserves pleasurable, uh, mutually respectful sex, not sex that is merely consensual.
[01:01:17]  The term with this idea of respectful sex.
[01:01:20]  Like, what, what?
[01:01:22]  I mean, I don't know.
[01:01:23]  I guess I could kind of understand what she means, but like, I don't know.
[01:01:26]  It just seems like such a dry clinical way of describing.
[01:01:33]  How old is this person?
[01:01:35]  Probably 21.
[01:01:36]  Yeah, dude, you're 21.
[01:01:38]  You just got an article in the New York Times.
[01:01:39]  You're a fucking winner.
[01:01:41]  I didn't have sex till I was 24.
[01:01:43]  There were probably five-year stretches where a lady would not talk to me where I was a fucking loser.
[01:01:47]  You're doing fine in life.
[01:01:49]  You know what I mean?
[01:01:49]  Just quit complaining.
[01:01:50]  Like, you're going to have breakups.
[01:01:52]  You're going to have bad relationships.
[01:01:53]  You're a winner.
[01:01:55]  And just start dating nerdier dudes that are looking at you'll find what you want.
[01:02:01]  You need, you need time to figure this out.
[01:02:03]  You're probably not in a position where you really have an understanding about any of these things.
[01:02:10]  You know, like people who I've said this before, right?

=== Building Relationships on Mutual Respect (09:52) ===

[01:02:13]  I think people who give dating advice or relationship advice, if you're, they should have what you're looking for, what you're looking to achieve.
[01:02:23]  So in the other, in the sense that like, if some like second year open mic comedian started giving me and Rob advice on our stand up, we'd literally laugh in his face, then mock him, and then move on with our lives.
[01:02:43]  Probably do a good five minutes of just trashing them to his face, and then we'd go move on and we'd go do our shows.
[01:02:49]  Cause you'd right away be like, dude, I don't know, like me, me and Rob are about to go crush in front of this sold out show and you're like at some open mic.
[01:02:57]  what world are you in a position to give advice now if dave chappelle or louis ck or bill burr someone like this started giving me and rob advice on our stand-up we would sit very quietly and really pay attention to everything they were saying right because they are great comedians and they've achieved a ton and that's those are the people you listen to and you take their advice seriously when it comes to giving relationship advice or hookup advice or anything like this if you're looking Like I would say for guys,
[01:03:27]  for example, if you are looking to like hook up with as many hot chicks as you can, and there was some guy who has a ton of hot chicks that he hooks up with all the time and he's giving you advice, then fair enough.
[01:03:39]  Take that advice.
[01:03:40]  If you're looking for like meaningful relationships, like how to like really make it work, then you should be listening to people in successful marriages.
[01:03:48]  Those are the people who should be giving you advice.
[01:03:50]  Just saying, that's kind of how I feel about the situation.
[01:03:54]  And as somebody who's in a very happy marriage, if you want advice about like what actually leads to like people being happy together and having a meaningful relationship and shit like that, I feel somewhat qualified to give that advice out.
[01:04:08]  At 21, I would not have been qualified to give advice about any of this shit out.
[01:04:12]  And that's just the reality of the situation is you just probably don't have enough experience to really understand these things.
[01:04:19]  But what it is, in order to find happiness and enjoyment in hookups, you have to start with the recognition that men are men and women are women.
[01:04:31]  And what makes men happy is to really feel like the man.
[01:04:36]  And what makes women happy is to really feel like they're treated like a lady, the vast majority of the time.
[01:04:42]  It's not true in every single circumstance, but the overwhelming majority of the time, that's what makes them really happy.
[01:04:50]  And if you don't start from that point and you're talking about equality and mutual respect and continuous consent and all of these things, it's just going to be a mess.
[01:04:59]  And nobody's going to end up getting what they want.
[01:05:05]  Okay, so just to the next paragraph.
[01:05:06]  Sex education should start from the assertion that each person deserves pleasurable mutual respect, respectful sex, not sex that is merely consensual.
[01:05:16]  In turn, it should teach students how to think for themselves about their desires and talk openly with their partners about them without shame.
[01:05:25]  So this is the end of the article.
[01:05:27]  So I guess the final thing that I'll say is that, and this is what's so wrong about the conclusion of this article, is what?
[01:05:34]  Sex education should be doing this.
[01:05:40]  It's really this fundamental flaw where you're like, okay, so at the end, at 21 now, because I'm unhappy in these situations, I've decided that there should be a class that teaches us how to do it right.
[01:05:56]  Listen, this is a real fundamental flaw that I think any libertarian should get, right?
[01:06:01]  What you're looking for now is centralized authority dictating out what the marching orders should make.
[01:06:10]  You're looking for central planning of hookups.
[01:06:15]  This is not how it works.
[01:06:17]  This is not how you should want it to work.
[01:06:19]  This is not something that the adults in the room should be telling the kids how to do this in an official manner.
[01:06:26]  I'm not saying you can't get advice from some older people here and there on your particular situation, but the idea that this has to be coming down from a teacher, number one, is just completely wrong.
[01:06:37]  This needs to be a decentralized, independent thing.
[01:06:41]  You guys are also adults.
[01:06:42]  You're young adults, but you're adults.
[01:06:45]  You need to go out and learn these life lessons yourself and figure some of this stuff out for yourself.
[01:06:50]  And the other thing about this that becomes incredibly creepy is that there, which I'm sure, you know, at 21, you probably have a little bit of a blind spot for, but it is incredibly weird to have adults, older adults, to have 45, 50 year old adults getting involved in the intimate details of 19-year-olds' hookups.
[01:07:15]  It's very, very bizarre.
[01:07:18]  And that really opens the door for some really creepy shit.
[01:07:22]  So in conclusion, what none of you need is better instruction.
[01:07:30]  What none of you need is a new set of rules to navigate drunk hookup culture.
[01:07:35]  Which you guys actually need is all of the ancient wisdom that's been completely lost.
[01:07:40]  It's that men and women are different.
[01:07:43]  They search for different things sexually.
[01:07:46]  This is all very related to biology.
[01:07:49]  You know, that it's like this, and we could get into a whole thing about that.
[01:07:53]  We don't really have time to, but basically that like women are, men are hardwired to want to spread their seed and women are hardwired to make sure that they get the right seed.
[01:08:05]  You may think that that's like, it may not feel like that's really what's going on when you have sex, but it's all about biology and it's all about reproduction.
[01:08:12]  That's why men like tits and ass.
[01:08:14]  It has to do with feeding babies and birthing babies.
[01:08:17]  It's not just that we happen to get a feeling when we see those parts of the body.
[01:08:21]  And in the same sense, it's like women are hardwired to be incentivized to make sure that a guy isn't just going to get them pregnant and then bail on them because that puts them in a very vulnerable situation.
[01:08:34]  So this is all.
[01:08:35]  And if you don't recognize this shit, you're never going to understand what's really going on here.
[01:08:40]  You're never going to have like any sense of understanding of what different people want.
[01:08:44]  And the truth is that, by and large, drunk hookup culture is fucking not good for young women.
[01:08:51]  It's not good.
[01:08:52]  They come out.
[01:08:53]  I don't think it's particularly great for young men either.
[01:08:55]  But young women really come out the losers.
[01:08:57]  Even as you're talking about here in your article, where you're saying like, you know, why should we give up our dignity when we sleep with guys who we don't, we're not, we regret sleeping with them.
[01:09:09]  Why do we give up our dignity?
[01:09:10]  It's a reason why you don't hear men talk like that ever, ever.
[01:09:17]  You ever hear men talk about how they lost their dignity because of a hookup that they regret?
[01:09:22]  Pretty rare.
[01:09:23]  Pretty rare, if ever.
[01:09:25]  I don't have any dignity.
[01:09:26]  I might say I feel even worse, but I wouldn't say that there was dignity lost.
[01:09:29]  Yeah.
[01:09:30]  But are you going to hear about, you know, that the fact that, you know, are you going to hear Rob or any guy ever talk about a hookup where there wasn't mutual respect, where there wasn't enough communication, where there wasn't like, it's like, no, because men think differently about these things.
[01:09:47]  It doesn't help anyone to not to not tell young people these fucking truths.
[01:09:52]  And that's that.
[01:09:54]  I will just a message to Emma if she ends up listening to this, because I can be rather harsh.
[01:09:59]  You're a winner.
[01:10:00]  The fact that you got something published age 21, good for you.
[01:10:03]  I'm sure you're going to live a great life.
[01:10:04]  If I'd said anything in a public forum at age 21 that was then criticized or analyzed by 35 to 39 year olds, believe me, what I would have said would have been significantly dumber.
[01:10:16]  So I mean, it's just you're young.
[01:10:18]  Like, I don't know.
[01:10:19]  Yeah.
[01:10:19]  I give her credit for writing this article.
[01:10:21]  And I'll tell you, I think she, I think it's an important topic.
[01:10:24]  And I think she was hitting on something important.
[01:10:26]  And that's what I kind of liked about it, that she was like trying to explore something about it's like, hey, we have this system and this system isn't working.
[01:10:34]  Okay.
[01:10:35]  I think she's like, if she is listening, there's a chance she would.
[01:10:38]  If she is listening to this, I'd say, I think you're hitting on something important.
[01:10:42]  I'm not asking you.
[01:10:43]  I'm not saying abandon that like inquiry.
[01:10:48]  I'm saying go much further, go much further and really question the underpinnings of the entire thing, the entire thing.
[01:10:57]  Like whether it's good to have this culture at all, whether any of the rise of any of this Title IX, third wave feminist continuous consent, has this done anything positive?
[01:11:07]  Really question that and question the negatives versus the positives.
[01:11:10]  Has it really been worth it?
[01:11:11]  And all of this stuff and really question, as I said to you before, how hard are you working to ignore this obvious truth that there are differences between men and women and that this isn't all the same for for both parties?
[01:11:27]  This is something that, you know, I'm somebody who's, I'm married.
[01:11:30]  I got two little kids and one of them's a little girl.
[01:11:33]  And this is something I damn sure want to make sure that she knew and understood once she's old enough to like go out into the world.
[01:11:39]  That it's like, yeah, men are different.
[01:11:41]  Men are different than you.
[01:11:42]  Don't don't, this is a common flaw in human beings that we project our own values onto others because that's what we know.
[01:11:50]  And so we assume everyone else must be like that too.
[01:11:52]  But there are differences here.
[01:11:54]  There are differences.
[01:11:56]  And they're very important to recognize.
[01:11:58]  All right.
[01:11:59]  That's the show for today.
[01:12:00]  A little bit of a different show, but you know what?
[01:12:01]  I enjoyed it.
[01:12:02]  We'll be back soon with a brand new episode.
[01:12:04]  Catch you later.
[01:12:05]  Peace.