James Smith and Robbie the Fire Bernstein dissect Roe v. Wade's overturning, arguing that fetal personhood is morally absolute yet acknowledging federal enforcement risks creating a police state. They critique the Supreme Court as undemocratic while advocating for localized town-level bans on abortion, contrasting this with libertarian preferences for decentralized gun control. The hosts note that while progressives fear social destabilization, conservatives view this victory as fulfilling a 50-year goal, potentially energizing Democratic bases against Trump. Ultimately, the discussion suggests that removing federal mandates shifts the burden to communities, challenging the pro-choice reliance on consequentialist lifestyle arguments rather than core moral distinctions. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Roll Back The State00:14:17
Fill her up.
You're listening to the Gash Digital Network.
We need to roll back the state.
We spy on all of our own citizens.
Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
You're listening to part of the problem on the Gas Digital Network.
Here's your host, James Smith.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
The dynamic duo is back.
It is me, the most consistent motherfucker you know.
It is he, the king of the caulks, Robbie the Fire Bernstein.
I hope everyone's having fun out there.
I apologize for being out.
Had a whole bunch of shit going on over the last few days, but everything's good.
I am back.
Thank you to Robbie the Fire Bernstein for filling in and guest hosting the first time ever.
There's been a guest host on Part of the Problem.
You interviewed Scott Horton.
It was fantastic.
Great response from it.
And I'm done for now on.
I'm just going to turn it over to you, but I'm still going to collect the money.
So it seems to work out pretty well.
How's everything going, Rob?
I was honored to be a part of part of the problem history.
There you go.
Guest hosting the first episode.
I mean, you're a part of the history of the show because you co-host the show.
So that would you would think you had already achieved that, but it was a great episode and I appreciate you covering for me on that.
Also, I've heard I heard from people it went great up at Porkfest and you fucking crushed it.
So that's pretty cool.
Well, well, you were missed, but it was a good time.
Dude, the fact that they have the Mises tent now makes it such a game changer from other years because there's like a very specific place to kind of go to and hang out.
So it's the gig, that gig's become a lot of fun.
Not that it wasn't fun, but it's more fun now.
And that tent is really a cool little hotspot.
We should just call it the Libertarian Party tent at this point, if you know what I'm saying.
Our Twitter's crushing it, dude.
I love it.
Every time I see a tweet, I don't know who's actually sitting there tweeting, but I like it.
I have no idea, Rob.
Anyway, no, it's a few different people who are doing it, but it's all great people and someone really great.
But so, yeah, I apologize for not making it up to Pork Fest this year.
I tell you guys, next year, Porkfest will make it happen.
Last year at Porkfest was incredible and the year before that.
I've been a ton of times and I'll be back there next year.
Anywho, let's get into it for today's episode.
We can't not talk about it, Rob.
I know it's your favorite topic, but here's what's going on in the world.
I'm really upset.
No, I'm being honest.
I'm disturbed by this decision because I've recently learned that we can't trust black men or women to make decisions.
So I don't know who we can turn to.
That's true.
That's true.
So you're taking a very pro-choice white supremacist take on what's happened here.
No, I thought minorities were supposed to be able to make better decisions than white men.
And with Clarence Thomas and Amy Comey Barrett, I don't know who I can trust now.
Apparently, women, if you put them into positions of power or blacks in positions of power, they'll make bad decisions too.
So they lost.
Well, okay, let me try to clear this up for you, Rob.
They don't count.
They're the bad women and people of color.
They don't count.
You don't want to put them into positions of power.
It's the good ones, the Kamala Harris's of the world.
That's who you want to put in.
Maybe they have like male and white character traits, but they just haven't like come out and formally transitioned.
I think the term you're looking for is internalized oppression.
They have internalized their own oppression and are now living that out, acting that out.
Can you say, but look, we'll get into all of this.
Okay, obviously, we're talking about Roe v. Wade was struck down the day before yesterday.
It actually happened.
There's so many different things to talk about with this.
And so it's almost tough to think of like what, you know, what comes first, what in the order of all the different things that you can take out of this because this is a really big deal and it's really fascinating on a lot of levels.
Let me start.
Let me be the most start with the most libertarian take that I can think of on all of this.
And I know that some people will say, you know, there are some people out there who think that the libertarian position must be being pro-choice.
And I think that's stupid, as far as I'm concerned.
It's just, it's stupid to think to, and it's one of the real weaknesses of the pro-choice side is that by and large, this is not true for all of them, but by and large, they are almost incapable of dealing with what the argument on the pro-life side is, which I think almost anyone, even on the pro-choice side, and there are, there is a small percentage of people on the pro-choice side who are at least honest with themselves about this,
and they will at least grant that they go, look, there's a real argument to this.
There's an argument.
There's an argument to saying that killing a baby inside of you should not be morally distinct from killing a baby outside of you.
Like there's at least an argument there, and they will grant that, but have some other rationalization for why they are pro-choice.
Okay.
But there are some people who just like, well, no, well, the libertarian position must be government's out of it.
But that's not really taking on the issue here.
Like, no libertarian is really arguing government should be out of killing a six-month-old baby, or you know what I mean?
So that it's anyway, but my first take of all of this is how crazy is it that five lawyers in Washington, D.C. get to make these decisions for 330 million people.
And that's kind of what I like about repealing Roe v. Wade.
And I would agree with that with almost any other law of this type that you could think of.
But isn't that such a crazy fucking thing that there's this huge issue that hundreds of millions of people have like, or at least tens and tens of millions of people have like these passionate views on?
And many of them have solid arguments behind their position.
And then there's five robed lawyers in Washington, D.C. who just make the decision.
Oh, we got five of them.
That's it.
That's and this is somehow we're supposed to like respect this institution and honor it like, oh, yes, the wise robed lawyers.
I mean, we all know how honest and trustworthy lawyers are, right?
So we got five of them, you know, but it was five out of nine.
So how can you not?
How can you not think we should all, all 330 million of us shouldn't live under this new, you know, decree?
No.
Are you saying that we should pack it with more judges?
That it would be better if more of them made the decision.
Yeah.
No, I don't, no, five more isn't going to change it.
Maybe if there was like 300 million more, that might help.
Right.
And now, and to add to that, apparently, uh, the judges there can get things wrong.
And when they get things wrong, it might take 50 years to undo what they got wrong.
And you might even be in a situation where conservative Christians are forced to sponsor and have baby killing amidst them unconstitutionally.
Right.
But yet no one looks at this and goes, hey, this is a dumb system.
And I could kind of, in theory, you could almost understand the idea of being like, well, hey, we're going to have one branch of government that's like completely impartial and not democratically elected and not, you know what I mean?
Like completely removed from political pressures.
And so they'll be over here and they'll be the wise ones making the decisions, which, which, by the way, in itself, when, you know, for all the people who talk about democracy all day long, it's kind of funny that they all wouldn't just oppose the Supreme Court because the Supreme Court itself is almost an admission that democracy doesn't really work.
It's like, well, okay, we have all these people.
But the problem is that you're like, oh, yeah, but they're just appointed and then confirmed by the people who are democratically elected.
So it's not getting you away from that system at all.
And in the dumbest, most gamemanship type process where it's just a weird game.
So if they die, if enough of them die while your team is in power, then you can get more of your side in the division of government where you can't vote.
So your views aren't represented.
So if the entire country were to flip four years later and let's just say be extremely conservative after you had a liberal president who put in three liberal judges, it's not rule of law.
It's not that these are ones that are just interpreting law.
It's a gamemanship.
Well, that's the point, right?
So if you love democracy, you should oppose the Supreme Court because, right, if 70% of the country wanted something, 80% of the country wanted something, they'd be like, well, we got some 80-year-olds here who was appointed back when only 40% of the country wanted this.
So they don't get it.
So if you love democracy, you should oppose the Supreme Court.
And if you're against democracy, because you recognize correctly that democracy is just the tyranny of the majority, then you're like, okay, well, the people who are elected by their majority just get to nominate, confirm, and appoint these justices.
So if you love democracy, you should be critical of the Supreme Court.
And if you hate democracy, you should be critical of the Supreme Court.
Like it doesn't matter either way.
They still have all of the flaws of all of it.
Anyway, all that aside, I guess my first takeaway being some libertarian point.
The second, my second takeaway is just kind of a human point.
There was something about it, even though we got this leak.
It was just really kind of, it was stunning to me to see Roe v. Wade overturned.
Just something about it.
It's like, wow, even after getting the leak, I never really believed it would happen.
And before that, I really didn't believe it would happen.
And let me caveat that and just be clear.
It did seem like the leak was legit because the way we talked about this on the episode when after the leak happened, just because they said the Supreme Court was investigating the leak, and you're like, well, okay, if they're investing, they wouldn't be investigating it if it was a fake leak, right?
That wouldn't make any sense.
So clearly it was real.
But even then, there's just something about it when there's been something that has been not only the, I know this isn't technically the accurate term, but the law of the land for my entire life.
And then, you know, over a decade before my life, you know, 50 years, this has just been the way things are.
And then something that is so profoundly critical to the way our society operates, just being this norm.
And then all of a sudden it's just changed.
It is, uh, it is, it takes a second to go.
Wow, that's hard to believe that that really happened.
So, nothing left-wing or right-wing or libertarian even about that thought.
Just saying it's pretty crazy.
It's pretty crazy that they actually did this.
I know that forever, uh, my entire life, right-wingers have been talking about how this is our mission.
We got to do this, we got to get this justice, this justice, so we can get the majority of the court to overturn Roeby Wade.
Left-wingers have been saying you can't.
This was always their reason you can't elect a Republican president because they're going to overturn Roe v. Wade.
This is why we have to do it.
But after a while, it just seemed like noise to me that this is what they always say, but this never changes.
But I was wrong and it changed.
And this, this is really something.
Um, there really is something to say.
It's it's interesting.
Of course, it won't change life in blue states, but it is it is going to change the legality of this.
I think in a lot of red states, yeah.
And then I always thought the abortion issue was kind of annoying.
And that to me, I wish the conversation was more around debt or other things that I think are important.
I almost thought that the abortion forced people onto sides for the least important issue.
You know, that essentially you could be a otherwise Republican and have this be very important to you and go, nope, I'm Team Democrat because this is too important.
And so, to me, this is like kind of the dumbest thing to be forced onto one of these teams for.
So, based on that point, that it's shocking that it actually did flip, it would be surprising to me when all these people in blue states realize it doesn't actually affect them and where they're living if they actually care to force, and that's an interesting word to use here, but force their point of view on abortion onto red states, especially being that I bet an application.
It's not going to be that hard these days to self-monitor and like essentially go to red, you know, go to the blue states if you need an abortion.
I just don't think it's going to be that tough.
Well, so what I've um, what I've heard from people is that the concern is that they think these red states are going to crack down on people going to other states to have abortions.
But I got to say, and I'm just kind of pleading ignorance on this.
I don't exactly understand how they're going to be able to do that.
Well, that sounds like I go to Vegas to gamble.
Highway Conspiracy Claims00:02:13
I exactly like I don't, yeah, how can they punish you because you didn't break the law?
Now, I guess what I've heard people say is that they could claim that it's conspiracy to break the law and the conspiracy happened in their state.
But the issue with that again is that there's no conspiracy there.
You know, like if I plan a trip to Vegas to go gamble and I could plan it in New York or in New Jersey or whatever, but even if I'm planning it here, I'm not planning on breaking any law.
I'm going to a place where it's legal.
So, I don't understand legally how that would actually work.
Can you go to a new to me would be the most similar.
If I live in a state and I'm hanging out, let's just say with like a 17-year-old and it's illegal to have sex with them in the state of Connecticut.
And then I look on the map and I'm like, oh, Alabama, 15.
Can I plan a trip with that person to then?
No, seriously, I'm asking.
I'm curious.
I want to know.
Such an uncomfortable question that you're asking.
No, because that's that to me would be a more comparable case.
I um, you know, I don't know.
I'd have to ask a lawyer about this.
I believe that would be legal.
I believe that it's like it's what jurisdiction you're in when the act happens.
So I don't know.
Um, took a monitor over state lines.
Rob, I want you to hold.
I want you to hold on to that.
Don't pull the trigger quite yet because I have no lawyer.
So let's speak to someone who might know a little bit better than me.
But I think that wouldn't be a prosecutable crime.
But I don't know.
Maybe I'm wrong about that.
So look, it's going to be interesting to see where this all goes on a lot of different levels.
The response already has been there's been mass protests.
I don't know exactly what the costs of that have been.
Evidently, one woman was hit by a car.
I'm not sure if she died or not.
I believe it was in a protest, one of these protests where they were blocking the highways, which is like, you know, yeah.
I don't know.
CrowdHealth Protests Explained00:03:07
As I've always said, as we talked about a lot in the summer of 2020, you know, look, it's sad when anyone dies.
And I know people make dumb decisions and lots of people have made dumb decisions.
And I don't think they deserve to die for that.
But the thing about getting hit by a car on a highway is like that could happen on a highway.
You know, cars go real fast on the highway.
You've been on a highway before, Rob, right?
One of the things you'll notice if you're on a highway is cars moving fast.
So maybe don't walk on them.
Anyway, just a general piece of life advice that I would give to anyone I care about.
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All right, let's get back into the show.
There's been a bunch of protests.
Of course, we knew this was going to happen.
We'll see how far these protests go.
My Body My Choice00:10:32
I have a feeling they're going to be with us for a while.
It's not quite, you know, the same as when there were like the Black Lives Matter protests.
I think the people who are out in the streets furious about abortion are, let's say, not quite as tough as the people who were out in the streets furious about George Floyd.
Just don't think it's going to be the same, the exact same type of thing.
But there is something really interesting about this, about this ruling.
And one of the things that I've looked, I've talked about this a lot on the show before.
I'm somebody who was pro-choice for many years, and I changed my mind on this.
And I was kind of, I was grappling with the idea for a while.
I, you know, I listened to a lot of the pro-life people make arguments that you go, that is a pretty convincing argument.
And I, for a while, maybe from, I don't know, around like 2016, 2017, like those years, I was, I was like, shit, this is actually really tough.
And I started to rethink my pro-choice positions.
But in 2018, my wife got pregnant and we had our first child.
And I just completely changed my mind after that.
After that, it was like, I just never looked at it the same way.
And I was like, yeah, this is just, this is just morally indefensible, the idea that it's just okay to kill the baby because it's inside of its mother.
As soon as it comes out, we all agree it's horrific, but because it was inside, then it's okay somehow.
This seemed like ridiculous.
And now the more I look back at it, it's like, yeah, it's just, it's just ridiculous, the argument.
Like it just, and as I've mentioned before on the show, and I think even you, as somebody who doesn't have these kind of like strong pro-life feelings that I have, you've mentioned that you've noticed this too, this point that I made that so many of the pro-life, or excuse me, so many of the pro-choice arguments refuse to even address this.
Like they refuse to even take on the argument, which is so obviously the central argument.
Like, is it, why is it okay to kill a baby when it's inside the mother?
Like, why is that okay?
And they'll, they'll just go to all these other issues.
Like, do you know, you know, these kind of like consequentialist arguments?
Well, do you know what this will lead to?
Or do you know that, you know, whatever, all of these other things that do you know, so you're insisting that women, you know, have to carry the baby to term or you're insisting like all these other different arguments,
but like none of them are actually addressing what the root pro-life argument is, which is that there is, we do not see a moral difference between killing the baby outside of the womb or inside of the womb.
That's the fundamental claim.
And, you know, there's usually when people do try to address that argument, they fail miserably in my experience from what I've seen.
Now, it doesn't mean that there'll be these arguments of like, but don't you feel bad for the woman who's in this situation?
Or don't you, you know, what if this these laws are enforced in very bad ways?
Or what if this?
But none of that actually addresses the root of the argument, which is that like, why is this acceptable?
And what I've found very often, if you really get down to it, if you keep kind of peeling, you know, like in the same sense, you know, Rob, because you know sales very well, you know, like one of the goals of sales is to kind of like peel away like the layers of the onion till you get to what's really going on.
You kind of peel away the bullshit rebuttals until you get to what the real problem is.
You know, so someone will be like, well, the fucking, you know, well, it's inconvenient.
You go, we can make it very convenient.
They go, well, it's just this.
And you peel that away.
You know, you take away that.
And then you get down to what the really, the real thing is, which is like, I just don't want to spend the money.
And then it's like, okay, at least now you're at the real problem.
And with the abortion debate, I think a lot of times when you peel that down, what you get down to is that it's just like, well, then life can't work the way I want it to work if abortion's illegal.
Well, then we just can't be in a system where I can go out and just have sex when I want to have sex.
And look, I'm not even saying like the, that the response to that should be to like dismiss that concern.
I'm just saying that like that's when we, it's almost like that's when you can start having a real conversation is once you get down to what the real concern is.
The problem is that if you haven't addressed this fundamental moral issue, what you're saying is that you should be allowed to kill a baby because otherwise it's really inconvenient to the way you want to live your life.
Now, I know that's a tough thing for people to grapple with.
I know it's not fun to deal with that, but that is the reality of the situation.
And, you know, like I was even, okay, so I was talking to somebody, a very good friend of mine, who's a brilliant guy.
Everyone knows who this is, but I don't want to say because it was just a private conversation, although I don't think he would care, but it was a private conversation.
So I don't want to like even say who it was publicly, although I'm pretty sure he would just say this.
But he was saying that, you know, we were talking about it because it was the day of Roe v. Wade being overturned.
And someone was asking us and they go, Dave, you're pro-life, right?
And I was like, yeah, I'm pro-life.
And he asked him and he was like, and what are you?
And he goes, I'm pro-choice.
And then, so we just got into it.
We were having this conversation.
And I said, like, I go, well, look, let's take on like the pro-choice arguments, which what are the most common pro-choice arguments, Rob?
Like if you could even label them down to slogans, what would you say are one of them?
Well, the easiest one's my body, my choice.
Right.
Okay.
So I, I, that's exactly where I go first, right?
Like these argument, the argument that like, you can't tell a woman what to do with her body.
I go, okay, well, let's say a woman, you know, has a completely healthy eight-month-old, you know, fetus, right?
She's eight months pregnant.
Baby's completely viable, could live outside of the woman.
Can she just kill the baby because it's inside of her?
Or you can even, by the way, you could even go post-birth.
It's my body, my choice.
Can a lady choose not to feed her own child?
Do we force her to feed her child?
Yeah.
Would we bang in the door and arrest the lady and take the child if a neighbor reported that there was a three month old that hadn't been fed in two years?
Well, doesn't she have right, exactly?
Doesn't she have an obligation to either give the baby to somebody who will feed them or herself take care of that?
You know, like, right.
But I'm just saying for the sake of argument, you have a eight month pregnant woman, eight and a half month pregnant woman.
I mean, this is clearly, no one can even argue.
This is a baby inside of a woman.
If the baby, if she, you just happen, you know, like with my first child, my wife was like a week late past her due date.
And with my boy, with my second child, she went three weeks early.
That's just how it happens sometimes.
That's considered a full-term baby.
So, when you're talking about an eight and a half-month-old baby, this is you literally could just go into labor right now.
You know what I mean?
But let's just say right there, she's like, Well, it's my body, my choice.
I want to kill the baby.
I think almost all, and of course, the person who considered themselves pro-choice agreed and said, No, at that point, you can't.
And I said, Okay, but so then you're saying that this woman does have an obligation to deliver this baby, right?
And he agreed.
And so, I'm like, okay, so now he wasn't even saying my body, my choice.
I was just saying, like, okay, so that argument falls apart.
Now, I understand that I'm starting with later in the pregnancy, right?
I get that, but I'm just saying the my body, my choice thing falls apart.
If you accept at any point in the pregnancy, it's not your body, your choice, then it's not my body, my choice.
That's not the answer to it.
And so, then it starts, then already the conversation is drastically different.
Now, the conversation becomes when, when do you have this choice?
When do you have the right to decide that you're going to kill the baby inside of you?
That's it.
Now, you know, it's like, what's the old saying?
Where it's like, she goes, Would you sleep with me for $10,000?
And she's like, Yes.
And you go, Would you sleep for me for a dollar?
And she goes, Who do you think I am?
And you go, We've already established who you are.
Now we're just negotiating, right?
So once you get to that point, you're no longer, it's no longer like, Who do you think I am?
It's no longer my body, my choice.
Now we're just negotiating.
You're like, When is the appropriate time?
When do you say you have this thing?
Because you've already acknowledged that at some point you don't.
And the more you take it back more and more and more, you start to realize that it's just, it might feel a little bit better to you, where it's like, oh, well, the baby is the fetus is smaller.
The fetus doesn't look as human.
The fetus doesn't, you know, feel as human.
So I don't feel as bad about it.
But the truth is that you miss your period at about four weeks after you're pregnant.
By six weeks, you know, you've got like brain waves, beating heart, a lot, you know, even these compromise.
And I'm not saying this isn't to me like what makes a difference.
I don't care if it's three weeks or six weeks.
Fetal Humanity Debate00:09:50
That doesn't matter to me.
I'm just saying to people who have these feelings, it's like, by, you know, even the idea of like, well, just the first trimester, it's like, by 12 weeks, you have a little baby inside of you.
And it may not look exactly like a baby and it may not be viable outside, but like it's got like all of its organs, its brain, it's all of these things.
And after a while, you realize every point that you could pick within there is arbitrary, except for one, which is conception.
That's the only one that is scientific.
That's that's the only point that you could point to where it's like, that's when there's a new, unique human life.
That's when there is a new, unique DNA and a unique human life.
So I'm just saying by like the argument of it, from my perspective, at least, the pro-lifers have a stronger argument and a stronger moral case to make.
Now, obviously, there's a lot of people who are very passionately disagree, but I would argue this.
I would say that the reason why this issue particularly is so white hot, why the progressives are so upset about this one is because I think that legal on-demand abortion is the underpinning of the sexual revolution.
And that it's the, it's in a way, the only way that the current culture that we have is able to operate.
It's kind of the safety net that you need in order for all of these acrobats to be able to comfortably try all these tricks.
You know what I mean?
It's this ultimate like safety net underneath.
And I prefer a society of blowjobs and anal.
So, you know, if we got to get rid of vaginal sex, I can work with this.
Well, there you go.
You're not going to take away my promiscuity.
That's not even the right word, but you get what I'm saying.
Promiscuity, you got it.
Well, Rob prefers a society of blowjobs and anal because that's what dudes can give him.
But that the point is that because that's what you can get from a good, from your bro.
But you know what I mean?
Like it's going to be very, it's going to be very hard to support support.
It's going to be very, very difficult to have a society of promiscuity of like of this kind of the culture that we're all used to, that we all grew up in.
I don't even know if we even think of it that way.
You know, it's just kind of what is, but the idea that like, you know, it's pretty out there in the world that like people go, the third date, that's when you hook up.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's just kind of our, like, it was not that long ago that the standard was, you will have sex when you get married.
That's not like a couple generations ago.
That was the standard.
And our standard is like.
That's a wild system.
What if you get to marriage, find out she doesn't even have a vagina?
Yeah, that was, that might be grounds for an annulment, but I don't know.
But now you like her.
You got, you went through with the whole wedding.
You got to announce to your friends and relatives, hey, we're sending the gifts back.
Apparently she doesn't have a vagina.
But this is, this is the, you know, I'm going to keep some of these gifts.
But the point is, even as you say it in jest and like in an absurd way, I think this is a lot of what the kind of argument really comes down to.
And I'd be happy to like debate this with someone.
I've done an abortion debate before, but if someone wants to give me pushback on this, they can.
And I'll have this debate.
But the truth is that a lot of people, their thing is just like, but look, this lifestyle I want to live won't work unless I have the right to kill my baby inside of me.
And you almost see this.
Once you look for it this way, I'm telling you, you're going to see this argument out of Democrats and lefties and liberals and all of them.
You're going to see this argument all the time.
Now, don't get me wrong.
Sometimes they will make the argument and some of these arguments are somewhat legitimate that they will make arguments about extremely rare situations, you know, like crazy rare situations that are horrific.
And okay, you know, there are some arguments there to be made.
You wouldn't hold it's murder and the incense or rape?
Huh?
You wouldn't still just say, though, that it's like you're murdering a child, like it sucks that you were raped or it's incest, but you can't murder a baby.
Oh, no, that exception, I would not.
Look, I do think that that exception changes things drastically and makes it so much more tragic, like so much more tragic.
The problem is, again, You come to this point where let's say a woman comes in and goes, I was raped eight months ago and I'm pregnant and I want to kill the baby.
You know, what if a woman says, I gave birth six months ago, but this baby, I was raped by this baby.
You know, can she kill the baby?
No, I was hoping it would look more like me, but apparently it looks a lot like the rapist.
Yeah, like, I mean, I'm just saying, you get like, once you like follow this logic, you go, okay, well, if there's a point, if there's, look, if you agree with me that eight and a half months in, the rape victim doesn't have a right to kill the baby, then okay.
Then you've again, it's just like before.
You've already conceded the point.
It's not that you can't possibly force an obligation on a rape victim, right?
Unless you're going to carry it all the way till the day before she delivers, unless you're going to do that, then you would say at a certain point, there's an obligation on this rape victim to deliver this baby because she's not the only victim here.
Now you have a baby who's also a potential victim if you agree to let her kill the baby.
So again, now we're back to negotiating.
Now we're back to at what point does this obligation happen?
And I think that like, you know, I think like pre like like things that like happened before contraception before Jesus Christ, sorry, I'm blanking out here.
But before, if you could like a morning after pill or something like that, or something like that, that I don't have a problem with.
I think that's going to happen before conception and it's going to be that you have no idea even if there's a pregnancy there or not.
So maybe we try to find a way to like get rape victims that as soon as possible, which I have to be very soon.
But even those, I don't know, it's not, it doesn't, it doesn't change the fundamental the fundamental fundamental moral dynamic.
Now, the exceptions I was thinking of was more like things where there are very, very rare cases where the baby has severe health issues, like very severe, or the mother has severe health issues.
Like there are wild situations, just they're incredibly rare.
But those aside, just for the moment, we could get into those, you know, at any point.
But the argument, as I was saying before, that you'll start to hear once you're paying attention to this, that you'll start to hear from pro-choicers is things like, you know, you'll hear this.
Look, they're just basically telling you, but the lifestyle I want to live doesn't fucking support this.
Now, that's not it.
That's not grappling with the moral argument that pro-lifers are making.
But they'll say things like, birth control doesn't always work.
Condoms don't always work.
But tell me, Rob, you've heard this, right?
You've heard this argument from pro-choicers before.
Well, they'll say things like that.
So what are they saying?
What are they essentially saying?
Like, well, just fuck.
I can't fuck.
I can't, I can't just randomly fuck when I want to.
And it's like, yeah, like, now the old school answer to that, you may not like this, but the old school answer to that was, well, that's why you got to be in a marriage and with a person who you're prepared to have kids with before you fuck.
That was their answer.
But there is something that now I know to a lot of people, especially a lot of young people, that seems so goddamn crazy.
Like, holy shit, there's no way we could live that way.
But again, I just see a lot of this with the abortion debate: that there's almost no counter to the moral argument of why it's okay to kill a baby inside of you.
And so instead, it's just kind of like, well, look, this is going to happen.
People are going to have wild sex with multiple different partners before they get married, if they ever even get married.
And so there has to be a get out of jail free card.
There has to be this ultimate safety net because they would never do that unless this was the case.
But if you're maybe a more socially conservative person or a traditionalist, you can also understand why they would be like, yeah, that's right.
That's what you're supposed to like, almost like in a way that that's the natural order of things is to be like, yeah, you're always risk every time you have sex with someone, you're risking that you could get them pregnant.
Gun Rights Divide00:10:09
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I understand where there are some people who like, I understand both sides of this part of the argument.
I understand there being people like, well, dude, you know, some 22-year-old being like, I'm not ready to get married, but I'm definitely going to have sex or, you know, okay.
But I also think maybe you could look around and go, well, all right.
Our society is kind of falling apart.
And a huge part of this is because there's absolutely no like meaningful importance placed on making sure that we're working really hard to take care of the next generation.
Instead, we're just racking up debt on the next generation's, you know, bill.
And just everything, every cultural norm, every economic norm, every, you know, all of them are just like destroying the potential for the next generation to inherit half of what we inherited.
And maybe this, a culture that allows for that isn't the best thing.
That's kind of where I am on all of this.
And I just still, I still just don't hear moral arguments that really grapple with what the pro-lifers are saying and really give you like, give it to me.
Give me the reason why it's okay to kill a baby inside of a woman, but not outside of her.
Someone really give me that argument.
And I'd be happy, again, like I said, I'd be happy to debate this.
Find me someone good who actually can wants to debate this topic.
I'd be happy to do it.
Anyway, I think from my perspective, the reason why this is the issue to progressives is for that reason, because this is what underpins the cultural lifestyle that they've like relied on.
And progressives realize that culture is every bit as important as politics.
And in fact, they're very related.
And in fact, to own the politics, you have to own the culture and perhaps vice versa.
So I think that this is really what it comes down to is that this is a, it's a fundamental, if you looked at like there's like kind of like a split between like traditionalist social conservative types and social progressives, that this goes right to the heart of that divide.
You take away this and their order falls.
That's how I see it.
I don't know.
Any thoughts on any of that, Rob?
No, I think it's an interesting and fair analysis.
I reserve the right to disagree with you, but I think it's fair.
All right.
Fair enough.
If it was up to you, do you think it should be like federal law illegal like everywhere?
Like the states that are into it shouldn't be allowed to have it?
Well, so I'm a little bit split on that.
So here's where I, and I'll tell you, even on the gun decision that came out a couple days before the abortion decision, there's a thing like the Supreme Court telling New York City, you can't have the strict gun control you want to have, right?
There's obviously, as far as the decision goes, I kind of like that.
And I kind of fucking go, all right, yeah, that's that's not bad.
Like it's going to make life better for people.
So in theory, I like, and this gets right at the heart of like the decentralization principle.
In theory, what I believe in is liberty.
I don't care if, you know, if a very centralized power enforced liberty, then okay, fine.
I mean, in theory, right?
Would me or you care if there was like, forget even like the anarchy-minarchy divide.
Let's just say for the sake of argument, anarchy is off the table.
If there was a one world government that rose up and said, okay, here are the rules for all of Earth, laissez-faire capitalism.
Those are the rules.
No income tax, no central bank.
You know what I mean?
Like none of this shit.
Just what you want.
Like, in theory, me and you might be like, yeah, that's great.
They just fucking kind of enforced freedom on everybody.
However, practically speaking, we might go, yeah, but the problem, the problem with one world government is that if that government goes bad, the whole world is screwed.
And so I don't believe, I don't believe that it's going to work out.
It's more likely to produce more negative than positive results.
So I would, my, just to answer your question, then I want you to finish what you're saying.
No, I want to see it completely decentralized.
The decentralization is, I think, understanding from a liberty perspective is understanding that practically speaking, we're going to be better off the more local decisions are made.
So I wouldn't want to see a national law against abortion, but I also don't think there's not a national law against murder right now.
Let states, let fucking towns, let it like decentralize it down as much as possible.
That's kind of my take.
Yeah, no, I agree with that final conclusion.
To on your example of the one world government, let's say that they also added, and no government can exist that will do anything other than enforce private property laws, right?
So, if you wanted to make some sort of local government that was doing anything else, that would be illegal under the centralized authority.
So, I would say, yeah, but if people voluntarily decided that they wanted to make their own government that did invest in more wealth distribution, I wouldn't want to prohibit that.
Kind of goes in line with your gun example.
That I guess if you really wanted to live amongst other people that didn't want to have a community of guns, you should be allowed to do that.
Yes, I almost think that there's a unspoken, there should be like almost a right to discrimination, that you should be able to pick who you want to live around and what kind of laws you want to have.
And I actually think the biggest flaw to me in the Supreme Court case, because I read through it, the argument is kind of on the gun one you're talking about.
No, no, I'm talking about on the gun one.
So, I on the liberal side, they're kind of advocating that there should be some rights that you have that are guaranteed and other people can't vote away from you.
Uh, and then on the interesting to hear liberals saying that, yeah, yeah.
Uh, and then on the conservative side, they say that there needs to be uh, like I think it was like organized liberty that you can basically vote like within a jurisdiction within a jurisdiction that nobody nobody can do something, right?
Like, for example, uh, but I along the lines of what you're saying, I would kind of agree with this more if it was on an even more localized, like your town.
Like, if you want to live in a town and your town's like, hey, we don't want to have like we're Christians here, we don't really don't want this here.
Like, I think that's like, that's fine, and you should have the right to do that, and you should be able to do that for strip clubs, you should be able to do that for a lot of shit.
Like, I think that on the state level, it almost sounds like it's it's it's like slightly too big of a category, you know?
Yeah, I tend to agree.
Well, I tend to agree with you, like in a sense, you go right, like in New York City, the problem is that, well, you go, but there are a lot of people who just want to have a gun and want to have a concealed carry uh permit and they want to conceal carry because they want to protect themselves and like that they're not like criminals who are going to aggress against anyone else, they just wish to protect themselves.
And so it's awful that the government of New York City is stripping them of this basic right of self-defense.
However, at the same time, as you're saying, in theory, should a group of people have the right to get together and say, Look, we don't believe anyone should have a gun here.
Like, yeah, they do, they have the right to do that.
So, this is where the issue comes in with, you know, and why the best case scenario, this is why I'm an ANCAP ultimately.
The best case scenario is to have voluntary association and let people associate with who they want to.
Um, but so I agree with you completely on that.
That the best, the more you reduce it down, the better, the better you're going to simulate what a voluntary kind of society would be.
Death Row Justice00:06:20
Um, now, that being said, I personally let me say this: like, obviously, as I've established, I personally think abortion is Immoral.
And I also think that it's like I put it on a level of it's, I believe there's no, it's indistinguishable from killing a baby, morally speaking.
I don't see any difference.
And again, I've mentioned this before, but I'll say one more time.
We'll get off the topic of just like literally like my take on abortion.
But as I've said before, this was a thing that really changed for me when I had my first child, my girl.
And I think a lot of parents kind of have had this situation before.
And particularly because my wife was induced because she was over a week over her due date.
And they don't let you go over a week anymore because it's like they've decided now that it's more risky to go, especially my daughter was a big baby.
It's more risky to let you go longer and let the baby get bigger and bigger.
They just induce the woman so she gives birth.
They give her hormones and she goes into labor.
And there's a crazy thing where like you've been with your, you know, your wife has been pregnant for like months and months and months now.
And you get used to having a pregnant wife and you're expecting having this baby.
Then all of a sudden the baby's here and you're holding this baby in your arms and you're like, wow, a few hours ago, this baby was inside my wife.
And now it's in my arms.
And you just realize how much, you know, your baby was just inside your wife.
And if they, you know what I mean?
Like it's, it's, and there's nothing like that.
There's nothing magical that changed what your baby is when it came out.
It's this was, this was your baby yesterday and the day before that, the day before that.
And you just, it just kind of broke down this like, almost like barrier for me that there's some huge moral distinction between the baby in the womb and the baby outside of the womb.
And anyway, one of the arguments that I do, I am sympathetic to, which does not change whether or not I would think that legality, because like I'm saying, I think it's killing a baby.
So I'm fine with it being illegal.
In the same way, I'm fine with murdering a baby being illegal.
And just a lot of these arguments, see, here's almost like a litmus test for whether a pro-choice argument is a good argument or not.
Is like, would it apply to killing a one-month-old newborn?
You know, if you're going to say, well, you know, this is going to lead to a police state where the police are out there looking for every mother and checking on their one-month-old to make sure their one-month-old is still alive or something like that.
You're like, okay, are you arguing we should legalize killing a one-month-old?
If you are, then okay, make the argument.
But if not, then you're not dealing with what the pro-lifers are saying.
But I am sympathetic to the argument that these laws can be enforced in really bad ways.
That I completely get.
Like, I'm a libertarian.
I do not believe that the government is going to do anything very effectively.
And the fact that like you could make the argument that murder laws are enforced in really bad ways.
I mean, there have been, you ever look at like, you know, the statistics on just DNA evidence that's overturned death row cases.
There's a lot.
There's a whole lot of people who have been of death row, you know, people waiting on death row who have had their cases overturned by DNA evidence.
Here's something even crazier.
There's people on death row who have had DNA evidence that clearly disproves that they killed the person who still didn't get off death row.
Just because the system stalls so long on them even getting their appeal and all of this shit.
And then they've ended up being executed while they're trying to get their appeal.
And their lawyers are sitting there like, we have proof.
You know what I mean?
This has happened like many times.
So don't get me wrong.
Just because something should be illegal does not mean that the government cannot really fuck up and there be like not just costs associated with this, but that it's-I wasn't even pregnant.
I'm sad.
I just lost weight.
It was a crash diet.
Don't put me in jail.
Shut up, Tubby.
You're going down.
But in all seriousness, that is a really legitimate concern.
Craig works.
I wasn't pregnant.
However, however.
However, I'm just saying that I don't know that your takeaway from, say, like death row inmates, you know, being found to be innocent.
Maybe your takeaway is that there shouldn't be a death penalty.
That's kind of reasonable.
And maybe your takeaway is that there should be a much more, you know, a much better, you know, a reform of how these trials work or something like that.
But I don't know that your takeaway would be therefore murder should be legal.
Therefore, we can't have it be illegal to kill someone because it leads to all of these consequences.
Does that make sense?
Like what I'm saying?
Like, but that doesn't mean that there can't be like, okay, yeah, no, I am like, I am interested and paying attention and open to my opinion on what exactly is the law that some state is going to put forward.
And more importantly, how is that law going to be enforced?
I think there are legitimate concerns around all of that.
But that's still, again, it's like if you were talking about how there's people wrongfully convicted of murder, which there certainly are.
And, you know, that is a completely legitimate point to make.
But the conclusion from that, I do not think is that murder shouldn't be illegal.
We should just make it legal to murder people.
Because if you make it illegal, it's going to lead to all of these people.
You know, now, with the United States of America, I will say I think there's something particularly in our country where we are just the worst at enforcing all of these fucking laws, and particularly if it's coming down from the federal government.
Crypto Investment Guide00:03:06
Like we are just awful at this.
I mean, we do everything in the most draconian, authoritarian way when it's completely unnecessary.
I mean, maybe not the worst at that.
There are worst countries in terms of being authoritarian with their domestic population.
Our worst authoritarianism is with the rest of the world.
But I do just think like, and part of it's from being such a rich country, from being the empire.
You know, we are the country that has like whatever, 50,000 SWAT raids a year or things like that.
So that is another strong argument for why it shouldn't be done at the federal level and should be done at a much more local level.
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Trump Political Wildcard00:11:10
Ideally, what I would like to see is not any of the nightmare scenarios that pro-choicers are concerned with.
I mean, I'd like to see a scenario where they just don't allow abortion clinics and doctors just refuse to perform the procedure.
And that's that.
There should be, I think, exceptions for severe health, the very, very rare, irreversible, severe health issues.
I think is an area that is a gray area that I would think should be, you know, considered.
But aside from that, yeah, that's what I would like.
I'm open to arguments too.
I've been open, I've heard pro-lifers who make the argument that the, and this is something I'm somewhat sympathetic to, that make the argument that really, if you care about like abortions and not happening, you shouldn't even think about laws.
You should really just think about all these other ways that we could fucking help to reduce the number of abortions.
I think there's some merit to argue.
I think a life's a life, and you should monitor people's period trackers and do everything you can to crack down.
Maybe not that.
All right.
Let's get into a little bit in the remaining few minutes of the show, what I think maybe to our listeners, and maybe just in some ways to the future of the country, is the most interesting part of all of this is kind of the political ramifications from this.
So, two things that I want to say, and they might seem kind of contradictory, but I don't think they are.
I just think this is going to be helpful because I think dumb bitches are going to tire themselves out that every single weekend they'll get out there and they'll protest and they're going to be yelling in the streets.
And so, like, they're going to stop being such assholes at coffee shops at the gym and everywhere else.
So, I think culturally this is going to be good.
You might be right about that.
They might be getting out of your way in your day-to-day activities to go protest outside Amy Coney Barrett's house.
It's possible.
Well, here, let me make these two points that might seem kind of contradictory, but I don't think they are.
They're not, but they might kind of seem, but one on each side, okay?
Number one, and I kind of said this after the memo leaked.
I think that this is, and I understand where people might hear this and really disagree with me, but hear me out because I think I'm right.
I think this is a huge political victory for the Democrats.
I think this is a big, big victory for the Democrats, politically speaking.
I remember trying to talk on this show to people, to like right-wingers, right around the 2020 election and saying to them, and I got a lot of pushback from right-wingers on this because it was such a like, emotionally, you know, emotions were very high at this time right around the election.
But I remember saying to them, maybe it's better for you if Joe Biden's the president.
Now, I'm not saying to left wingers or liberals or libertarians, I'm saying you, right-winger, maybe you are better off if Joe Biden is the president rather than Donald Trump being the president.
And I understand certainly that seems counterintuitive.
Clearly, Donald Trump was running to the right of Joe Biden.
And I understand where when you're very emotionally invested in someone, you're like, what the fuck were you talking about?
And then people were saying things are like, Dave's a Jewish, like subversive.
He's trying to convince us to like vote.
But I'm just making the point that what do you really get?
What do you really get, right-wing America, for Trump being president?
Because let me tell you right away.
Whatever you think the benefits, you can tell me, well, we got this and this and this.
Oh, okay.
Here's what you know you get.
The most energized, radical, left-wing activist base ever.
There's no question about that, right?
You get left-wingers out in the street protesting with energy and enthusiasm.
You get them all brought together around one common enemy.
You're going to have record fundraising for the Southern Poverty Law Center.
MSNBC's ratings are going to be way higher than they would in any other situation.
CNN's ratings, way higher than they would be in any other situations.
You get all of your enemies galvanized and just being insane.
You get Democrats, you know, prolonging lockdowns just to get this guy out.
Like, you get what I'm saying, right?
All of your enemies are going to do everything they can to destroy you because this guy is the figurehead.
Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't support someone because of that, but what do you get that's more valuable than that?
Is there anything?
Okay, we got some tax cuts, a little bit of deregulation in the energy sector.
I'm not like downplaying any of this, but you right-wingers, that's more of a libertarian thing.
You right-wingers, like Rob, like you said, you didn't even get your wall.
You didn't even get your wall.
I mean, yeah, you got a president who will bitch out and do everything Israel and Saudi Arabia wants, but you know, you could get that with the Democrat, couldn't you?
Like, so anyway, I'm just saying.
So in that same sense, now this is different.
The Roe v. Wade is different because if you believe abortion is murdering a baby, then okay, that in itself is a big thing to get.
But I'm just saying, politically speaking, the Democrats now have something.
They've got something to rally around.
And they were dead in the water.
They really were.
Like Joe Biden's, again, like I said, his approval ratings taking his approval rating amongst Latinos is 25%.
That is death for a Democrat.
You cannot win a national election with those numbers.
The midterms are coming up.
The Democrats were going to get destroyed.
And now this is almost like a wildcard.
Now they've got something that can really animate their base.
So in that sense, I think it's a big win for the Democrats.
Now, my second point, which I said seems, might seem like it contradicts my first point, but I don't actually think it does.
But my second point is that the other big winner of all of this is who?
Robbie the Fire Bernstein, who's the big winner politically from all of this.
I think you're going to say Trump, but I don't agree.
Trump.
It's interesting.
Donald Trump now has in his pocket an accomplishment that he can take credit for, completely legitimately take credit for.
They go the number one priority of the conservative movement for 50 years was achieved by Donald Trump.
That is something powerful for him.
If he wants to run again and he wants to, I'm talking right now, primary.
You want to win the Republican nomination again?
Whoever might come in his path, DeSantis being the most, you know, clear, formidable opponent, Donald Trump now has, I got Roe v. Wade overturned.
This was something that every other Republican said they were going to do, but he did it.
And he did it because he appointed the justices who made this happen.
So that's, those are my two biggest takeaways.
Now, what is it you disagree with me about Trump?
I take it back.
I think what you just said is accurate.
The reason I was disagreeing is because I saw a headline that Trump was saying that he was taking credit for it, but it wasn't going to help him politically.
But I think you're right that as far as the Republican, the people that liked him will only like him more.
The people that hate him hated him anyway.
They already hate him.
I'm not even talking about in the general.
I'm just saying that this like is so huge to him amongst the conservative base that he got that goddamn thing removed.
And look, we still don't know exactly.
And I'll be interested to see, we don't know what a post-Roe America is going to look like exactly, but it doesn't really matter in terms of politics.
Donald Trump can say the term Roe v. Wade, everyone knows what that means.
And he can say, I got Roe v. Wade eliminated because I put these justices on the bench.
And that is kind of the truth.
It is the truth.
By the way, my recommendation for post-Roe versus Wade America is declare yourself a woman and put in for as many abortion vacations as you can a year.
There's going to be a $5,000 credit.
Is HR going to tell you you've taken too many abortion days this year?
I don't think so.
They can't tell you're being too much of a slut once they said they'll pay for your abortions.
You go, excuse me, HR.
I am a woman.
And you're like, they'll be like, Dave, come on.
You'd be like, I'm a woman who needs six abortions a month.
Now you give me my money.
Well, you know, it's funny.
And this is just a weird thing, but like, you know who pro, I'll end on this, as silly as this is, and it has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying.
But you know, wouldn't you think like if you were like a pro-choice liberal or leftist or something, you know who you kind of should be mad at?
Who, of course, they never will be mad at?
But Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
Because she could have just resigned under Obama.
I mean, she was clearly old and not in good health and could have just said, like, I'm going to resign now so that Obama can just fill my seat and fill it with a liberal justice and ensure, you know, he could pick some 45-year-old and ensure that, you know, there's this seat stays in liberal hands for another, you know, whatever, 40 years.
But instead, she just wouldn't and just kept going and kept going and couldn't make it through the Trump administration.
But like she was already very old and not in good health under Obama.
And so she held on and then died on his watch.
And then he got to fill that seat.
But so I don't know.
It just, if you think this is the most consequential thing ever, it seems like you would at least obviously the other side doesn't agree with you, but someone on your side who does agree with you could have probably been the difference.
And also maybe Hillary Clinton for just being so goddamn awful that she lost to Donald Trump because none of it happens without that.
Freedom Fest Tickets00:01:13
All right, just some thoughts, just something to put out there.
All right.
There you go.
There's our episode for today.
We'll catch next time.
Some report store is in session in Sandpoint, Idaho this weekend, along with Seattle, Washington.
Following weekend in Bonaqua, Tennessee, followed by Atlanta.
And then more dates coming at you.
And then, of course, you got Freedom Fest.
I got Freedom Fest coming up in just a few weeks here.
And then also I have Young Americans for Liberty Revolution 22.
I will be out there in Orlando, Florida.
One of the keynote speakers out there.
There's a lot of great, I believe, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Glenn Jacobs, Kane from the WWE, Michael Malice, a whole bunch of great people are going to be speaking out there.
So go check that out.
Young Americans for Liberty Revolution.
I missed it last year, and I'm very happy that I'm going to be able to make it this year out to that.
It's like a big event.
So I think there's still some tickets available.
Go check that out.
I got to find out what the website is to promote that, but I'll figure it out.
I'll tweet it out soon.
But yeah, that's fucking happening.
And I got my brand new website has been completely redone, comicdave Smith.com.