Part Of The Problem - Dave Smith - The State, a Coup, and You
Aired: 2022-01-08
Duration: 01:01:36


=== Remembering 9/11 and Pearl (07:01) ===

[00:00:00]  Fill her up.
[00:00:02]  You are listening to the Gash Digital Network.
[00:00:08]  We need to roll back the state.
[00:00:10]  We spy on all of our own citizens.
[00:00:12]  Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
[00:00:16]  If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
[00:00:22]  Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
[00:00:26]  You're listening to part of the problem on the Gas Digital Network.
[00:00:30]  Here's your host, Dave Smith.
[00:00:33]  What's up, everybody?
[00:00:34]  Welcome to a brand new episode of Heart of the Problem.
[00:00:37]  I am the Libertarian Tupac Dave Smith, the most consistent motherfucker you know, and he is the king of the caulks, aka COVID Jesus, Robbie the Fire Bernstein.
[00:00:50]  What's up, my brother?
[00:00:51]  How are you doing?
[00:00:52]  I'm doing great, man.
[00:00:53]  It's January 6th.
[00:00:55]  We're celebrating.
[00:00:57]  That's right.
[00:00:57]  Well, we did our January 6th episode, but we're recording this one on January 6th.
[00:01:02]  So it kind of feels a little phony that we already did the last one, but today we enjoyed January 6th.
[00:01:08]  I didn't realize how much of a memorial it was going to be.
[00:01:11]  I didn't realize we had a whole other new 9-11 on our hands.
[00:01:13]  I didn't realize.
[00:01:15]  This is why I wanted to do that episode last time about it because I knew I knew they were going to go nuts.
[00:01:20]  The Democrats really are dead.
[00:01:24]  Well, it's for me, this was kind of easy to see coming and probably for a lot of people.
[00:01:30]  But in the same way that remember we used to trash Joe Biden because his first campaign video back in 2019 was all about Charlottesville.
[00:01:41]  Right.
[00:01:42]  And it was like, there's just, what else are you going to do?
[00:01:46]  What else are you going to say?
[00:01:47]  It's just, remember this time when they were so bad.
[00:01:51]  And sure, it really had no effect on your life, but remember how much you hate them and how much you don't really care about any of the substantive issues.
[00:02:01]  And what you really care about is that you're against the other team who's for these guys.
[00:02:06]  Even though like both are just like a few hundred people, it's not even, you know, but so that was, you knew they were going to milk this.
[00:02:12]  And to your reference, Kamala Harris earlier today gave a speech and said, would you say, there are certain days you remember where you were?
[00:02:21]  And she was like, Pearl Harbor, 9-11, January 6th.
[00:02:26]  It really is something.
[00:02:28]  And they're getting the story wrong.
[00:02:29]  We were so close.
[00:02:30]  We should be celebrating how close we were to restoring the freedom of this country.
[00:02:34]  Random people who believed in child pornography conspiracies on the internet nearly restored the country to its previous glory.
[00:02:44]  We were so well, look, I mean, let's get real.
[00:02:47]  There was no, there was, we were not anywhere close to restoring this country to what we would want it to be.
[00:02:53]  But I really, Dave.
[00:02:55]  One move away.
[00:02:57]  One more, one more fart on a desk and we were one more podium stolen.
[00:03:01]  And we would have had it.
[00:03:02]  We would have repealed the Federal Reserve or something.
[00:03:05]  I do think there's something really incredible to watching the, you know, large swaths of the corporate press just flip out about January 6th.
[00:03:16]  Like, you know, they, when you really think about it, even if, you know, you take the worst interpretation of what happened that day, like, you know, even if you're going to say that this was a coordinated plan by Trump and some people to, you know, go there and put pressure on Mike Pence to, you know, with like an implicit threat to put pressure on Pence to not certify the election.
[00:03:44]  And then the people who stormed it, like there was no, you know, infiltration from, you know, the, from law enforcement or anything like that.
[00:03:53]  We take that all as a given.
[00:03:54]  And they, I mean, okay.
[00:03:57]  Well, then, at the worst, what you could convince me of was this was Trump was pretty fucked up to try to do this.
[00:04:04]  And this was a really, really stupid plan that never had any chance of working.
[00:04:10]  Like, that's the worst you could convince me of.
[00:04:13]  And it scared a bunch of politicians, and one fucking cop murdered a woman for no apparent reason.
[00:04:24]  That's like the worst you could convince me of of what happened.
[00:04:27]  And okay, and you know, scared the shit out of a bunch of politicians, no question.
[00:04:33]  But if you just look at the corporate press and their response to this, it's really, it's, it's kind of illuminating in a way, you know, that this is a thing where we must remember, we must remember this day just like Pearl Harbor and 9-11.
[00:04:50]  You know, those days where like the our country was attacked and sure, FDR probably knew it was coming, whatever.
[00:05:00]  Forget all of that stuff.
[00:05:01]  You know, people were killed on Pearl Harbor and there was a foreign nation like bombing of fucking, you know, like American soil.
[00:05:08]  It's, it's, it's something.
[00:05:10]  I thought it was pilots just trying to get a better view.
[00:05:12]  They were tried.
[00:05:15]  Someone told him he could get real close without hitting.
[00:05:18]  Up until those last like few feet, that's all it was.
[00:05:22]  But anyway, you know, okay.
[00:05:24]  And then 9-11, you know, like, what is it?
[00:05:28]  3,000 plus.
[00:05:29]  Another pilot.
[00:05:30]  Someone told him, hey, he can get a nice view of the Empire State Building.
[00:05:34]  There is a common theme here.
[00:05:36]  You make a fair point here, Rob.
[00:05:38]  But that and then this, this day.
[00:05:42]  And it's like, wow, you, I mean, you know, if the corporate press had this feeling about when like American kids are lied into going and fighting a war where then, as a result of it, hundreds of thousands of people die.
[00:05:56]  That doesn't seem to get it.
[00:05:58]  There's no day of like the day that George W. Bush declared war on Iraq.
[00:06:02]  We must remember that day, or the day that like, you know, and by the way, when I say declared war, not a real declaration that can only come from Congress, but anyway, or the day that schools closed, or the day that, you know, America, all these Americans were deemed non-essential workers, or the day, again, it's just that there's no feeling that way.
[00:06:23]  You know, they'll look at a number like, you know, whatever it'll be.
[00:06:26]  I don't know exactly this year.
[00:06:28]  It's usually around 60,000, 70,000 over the last three, four years of opioid overdose deaths.
[00:06:35]  That's not like a thing that we need to remember or have a day for.
[00:06:39]  There's not, you know, it's like none of this generates the outrage that January 6th, because our precious capital was attacked.
[00:06:49]  And oh my God, have you heard?
[00:06:52]  AOC said she was scared.
[00:06:55]  And sure, her story doesn't exactly add up, but she says she was scared.
[00:06:58]  So, you know, this, it's, it's something about it that's pretty incredible.

=== The January 6th Bubble (10:49) ===

[00:07:02]  And it's, it's, it's kind of amazing to watch.
[00:07:05]  Like you almost don't want to, you know, it's almost like the best, the best ally you can have is an enemy who's overplaying their hand or who's exposing themselves.
[00:07:18]  The best ally you can have is an enemy who's exposing themselves.
[00:07:23]  I'll say that, you know, and that's something I've learned in general in life.
[00:07:29]  Like sometimes, you know, in my experience in the Libertarian Party, there'll be the people who are like crazy, you know, who are like crazy opposed to me and who are just insane.
[00:07:40]  And it's almost like if I saw one of them, I'd want to like thank them.
[00:07:45]  Like, thank you so much, because you don't even realize how helpful you are.
[00:07:50]  Like that really makes people, you know, kind of see what's going on.
[00:07:55]  And this, this is almost beautiful to me to watch in the hysteria.
[00:08:00]  There was a here, let me pull this up.
[00:08:02]  There was a Brian Stelter, our favorite fat little piggy.
[00:08:06]  You're familiar.
[00:08:07]  You remember him, Rob?
[00:08:08]  Okay.
[00:08:09]  He tweeted earlier today.
[00:08:12]  Let me see if I can.
[00:08:13]  And while you're looking that up, everyone get your tickets for the Boston gig coming right up.
[00:08:17]  Yeah.
[00:08:17]  We're going to be in Boston.
[00:08:19]  Me and Robbie the Fire, along with BK Chris, who's coming out with us, we will be in Boston, the White Bull Tavern Comedy Club.
[00:08:26]  We're going to be there on the, what is it, 13th and 14th in Boston, right before the COVID passports go into effect, stand-up comedy shows, a live podcast.
[00:08:37]  You have to buy tickets separately to each of those, by the way.
[00:08:40]  I will tweet all of those links once again.
[00:08:42]  But yeah, there's still a few tickets left.
[00:08:45]  They're selling out fast.
[00:08:47]  Come out there.
[00:08:47]  We're going to have a ton of fun.
[00:08:49]  Boston, don't miss that.
[00:08:50]  And then right after that, I'll be in Arizona for the Libertarian Party convention.
[00:08:53]  I also added the Florida Libertarian Convention in February.
[00:09:00]  I'll be out there.
[00:09:00]  I'll be in California for the California Libertarian Party Convention.
[00:09:03]  Libertarian Party conventions.
[00:09:05]  As of right now, I'm going to be at Arizona, Florida, Pennsylvania, California, Denver, Colorado.
[00:09:15]  That's right.
[00:09:17]  I'm sorry if I'm missing any.
[00:09:19]  Minnesota.
[00:09:20]  I got a whole bunch of them coming up.
[00:09:22]  So check me out there.
[00:09:24]  Okay.
[00:09:24]  So here we go.
[00:09:26]  Okay.
[00:09:26]  So Brian Stelter tweeted.
[00:09:31]  Enjoy this for a second, Rob, if you haven't heard this so far.
[00:09:34]  This is what he tweets and doesn't even see anything about this.
[00:09:38]  That's crazy.
[00:09:39]  He goes, lead story on Fox's morning show today, all three hours.
[00:09:44]  COVID, Biden administration failures, maskless liberal lawmakers, Chicago schools.
[00:09:52]  Lead story on all the other major morning shows, January 6th anniversary.
[00:09:58]  Sounds like Fox is doing better news today.
[00:10:01]  And I just, I quote, tweeted him and I said, Brian Stelter explaining why Fox has the highest ratings in capabilities.
[00:10:09]  That's great.
[00:10:10]  Like, are you, do you really?
[00:10:13]  So, I mean, like, what world are we living in where you would attack?
[00:10:18]  This is his attack on Fox News is that there are.
[00:10:22]  Those rascals are doing real news coverage today.
[00:10:24]  They're talking about things like COVID and the Biden administration's failures and how liberal lawmakers have been caught maskless, even though they're advocating.
[00:10:36]  They've had us masked up for almost two years and the schools in Chicago.
[00:10:41]  That's what they're tweeting about, how Chicago is having these school closures and how everyone's masked up, but the liberals pushing it aren't wearing masks themselves and how the Biden administration is failing and the COVID regime.
[00:10:55]  That's what they're talking about.
[00:10:58]  We're talking about January 6th.
[00:11:02]  I I just, there was something about that that I found so amazing that he would tweet it.
[00:11:06]  Of course, he's getting just roasted, but that's what little piggies do.
[00:11:11]  But he's getting destroyed on social media for saying that.
[00:11:14]  But I just, I don't know.
[00:11:15]  Like, that's the state of it.
[00:11:16]  And it's so funny that they it's almost like so many people.
[00:11:22]  And I've, I've met Brian Stelter and done shows with him and had conversations with him.
[00:11:25]  You know, like not that I know him that well or anything, but you get the feeling with these people.
[00:11:32]  They are so insulated in their own bubble that they like, he doesn't even understand as he posts something like that that it's like, yeah, look, dude, at the very least, even if I were on the other side of this, I think I would recognize that January 6th doesn't really affect many people's lives.
[00:11:55]  Well, there's 700 people who are in jail.
[00:11:58]  Okay, yes.
[00:12:00]  There are some people that are in the jail.
[00:12:02]  Yes, those people are affected.
[00:12:04]  But most people who are, you know, watching your show, or most people reading your tweets, or just most people in general, are far more concerned with inflation than they are with what happened on January 6th.
[00:12:21]  And that's the truth.
[00:12:23]  And it's just, it's very weird to see, to see, you know, this reaction from the corporate press.
[00:12:28]  Have you seen any of the coverage today other than the Kamala Harris thing I mentioned in this?
[00:12:32]  I don't watch that.
[00:12:33]  I just look at the headlines.
[00:12:35]  Okay.
[00:12:35]  Yeah.
[00:12:36]  So, I mean, I've been seeing all the news articles that are going crazy and trying to pretend like this is a 9-11.
[00:12:43]  I saw Merrick Garland's speech.
[00:12:44]  So Biden gave a little speech.
[00:12:46]  Kamala gave a little speech.
[00:12:47]  I mean, it's all, man, do they know how to milk a story and be dramatic about it?
[00:12:52]  Yeah, but I just think what I find encouraging about this one is that I just go like, now this isn't going to work.
[00:12:58]  This isn't like the Bush administration milking 9-11 to try to get everything they could out of that, where it really was this national tragedy, you know, however you feel about what led to 9-11 and what the, you know, who did 9-11 or whatever, or what the, you know, the subsequent responses to 9-11 were.
[00:13:19]  No one can deny that like that was a real national tragedy.
[00:13:23]  I mean, not only were thousands of people killed, but like just symbolically, a landmark in New York City was destroyed.
[00:13:32]  And it's just, this is like a window was broken and I guess a cop was trampled and then a woman got shot by a cop and then it was all kind of silly.
[00:13:46]  The items that they're trying to push, though, is creating a domestic terrorism type thing, which is, you know, could target a person like you or I with alternative political perspectives.
[00:13:56]  Yeah, that audio is pretty creepy.
[00:13:58]  Yeah.
[00:13:58]  And then also, I think the Democrats with their January 6th commission will try.
[00:14:04]  I don't know that they'll be successful, but I think they're going to try and build some sort of criminal case against Trump to maybe bully him out of or create some sort of law against him running again.
[00:14:15]  Not that I'm particularly like, I'd rather Trump doesn't run again.
[00:14:19]  I don't, that doesn't excite me, but the idea of, and I don't know, maybe he did something flagrant enough on that day.
[00:14:25]  I mean, to me, it's just pretty rotten that he abandoned those people who, you know, he did work them up into a frenzy and say, hey, this thing's been stolen from me.
[00:14:35]  And then just really just abandon them, which it's just lack of character, but it's not.
[00:14:40]  Look, I completely agree with you on that.
[00:14:42]  And I think this is something that is such a weakness in Donald Trump.
[00:14:46]  And it's, and honestly, I'm, I'm kind of disgusted by him.
[00:14:52]  You know, when I was on, and I got some shit for this, but when I was on Tim Poole's show early in the year in 2021, I forget what exactly, I think it was January.
[00:15:06]  And we were talking about this a little bit, and I was just so disgusted by Donald Trump.
[00:15:13]  I think it was late January, maybe it was February.
[00:15:14]  I don't remember exactly.
[00:15:16]  I was just so disgusted by him.
[00:15:17]  I was just like trashing him.
[00:15:18]  And some of the Tim Poole audience was like a little defensive about that, but I was just like trashing everything about his presidency and who he was and how he everything up.
[00:15:25]  And a big part of it is that.
[00:15:27]  And don't get me wrong, I mean, there's a million other things that I've been railing against Trump for for the last four years.
[00:15:34]  I mean, we did like this weird position when there's this whole hoax to frame him for treason, you know, colluding with Russia or whatever, being involved in this conspiracy.
[00:15:45]  That's complete bullshit.
[00:15:46]  So you spend a lot of time like debunking that.
[00:15:49]  But I was just, you know, his foreign policy and his domestic policy, everything.
[00:15:53]  It's just, there were so many terrible things.
[00:15:56]  But there was something like about the fact that he would, the guy just only cares about himself and has no loyalty and then creates this, these situations where he encourages people to kind of do these things and then just like abandons them.
[00:16:13]  Like he won't even use his voice to speak for any of his other people.
[00:16:18]  I mean, look, the guy, he really started getting serious about tech censorship when, when he got censored, not when all of his people had been getting censored for years.
[00:16:28]  And then, look, it is, there is something to be said for the fact that like he encouraged all these guys to go, you know, march on to the Capitol and telling them that their democracy had been stolen from them.
[00:16:40]  So sure, there is something where like, if that, if his claim was true, then it would make sense to do some wild shit.
[00:16:47]  And he just seemed like he was so invested in his own ego and he had no, he really didn't care about what this ended up doing to his people or the country.
[00:17:00]  None of that seemed to be a concern to him.
[00:17:02]  So I do agree with you that that was, there was something there that was just so ugly.
[00:17:07]  But like I always said, this Trump is, he's Trump.
[00:17:11]  You already know who he is.
[00:17:12]  If you're not wrapped up in Trump derangement syndrome one way or the other, like he's literally Hitler or he's the savior of America, you just kind of see what it is.
[00:17:21]  Like, yeah, that's, that's what he is.
[00:17:22]  Very self-serving guy.
[00:17:24]  Um, and uh, anyway, so that's that's that.
[00:17:29]  But trying to make January 6th this day that we'll live in infamy is to me very goofy.
[00:17:36]  It just doesn't make sense.
[00:17:37]  Doesn't make sense.
[00:17:39]  Just wasn't that big of a tragedy.
[00:17:42]  You know, some people went into a building that they're not supposed to go into, I guess, even though technically I think it's the people's house.

=== Protecting Wealth with Crypto (02:43) ===

[00:17:52]  Whatever.
[00:17:52]  You gotta get tickets for the tour.
[00:17:54]  You can't cut the line like that.
[00:17:55]  Yeah.
[00:17:56]  And well, even, but even when people say, like, you know, like, well, they went there with this intent to have a coup.
[00:18:04]  I mean, I'm not even denying maybe some of them went there with that intent, but a lot of them seemed like they were just kind of like, oh, look at all that.
[00:18:14]  You know, like, oh, look at all this.
[00:18:16]  We're here, I guess, now.
[00:18:18]  It sure didn't seem like everyone there had this clear goal of this is what we're doing.
[00:18:23]  Maybe a few of them.
[00:18:25]  Anyway, maybe a few of the civilians had that intent, but not too many of them.
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=== Debating Open Borders (13:59) ===

[00:20:35]  All right, let's get back into the show.
[00:20:37]  All right.
[00:20:37]  So I did want, okay, I wanted to talk about a very little bit.
[00:20:43]  And I don't want to spend a ton of time talking about this too much more.
[00:20:48]  But the topic of immigration is something I feel like is not that important to me.
[00:20:55]  It's not that high on my list of priorities right now.
[00:20:59]  And I try my best, given what's been going on for the last two years, to not get too into these kind of abstract libertarian conversations that don't have a lot of application to what's really going on in the real world right now, especially as like if we recognize how dire the situation that we're in actually is.
[00:21:24]  Not that I'm pessimistic.
[00:21:25]  I'm very optimistic about where things are going, but still you recognize it's like, okay, this is, there's, there's some very serious threats out there.
[00:21:34]  And we've been through almost two years of a very, very dangerous situation in this country where liberty has been cracked down on in a fashion that's unparalleled in my lifetime.
[00:21:48]  But I had a debate recently with Spike Cohen, who, as many of you may know, he's been on the show a few times.
[00:21:57]  He was the Libertarian Party vice presidential nominee in 2020.
[00:22:03]  And I really like Spike a lot.
[00:22:05]  I think he's great.
[00:22:06]  And from my perspective, I think Spike, like, I didn't really know who Spike was until he won the VP nomination for the Libertarian Party.
[00:22:18]  And I liked him at the time when I first got introduced to him.
[00:22:23]  I disagreed with a few of the things that, you know, the way that the campaign went for sure.
[00:22:29]  And I thought at the time, like, there were a few things about the way things he would say or the way he would talk about stuff that I didn't really agree with.
[00:22:38]  But from my perspective, at least, he's gotten like way better since then.
[00:22:44]  And just he's been great for basically at least everything I've seen of him from say the end of the campaign to now.
[00:22:55]  So all of 2021, basically, he's been just, I think, excellent.
[00:23:01]  And part of that may not be that he's gotten better.
[00:23:03]  It might just be that, like, you know, being a vice presidential candidate is kind of a position where you're, you know, by the nature of that position, you're kind of back grandma pants.
[00:23:14]  Well, yeah, you're grandma pants is talking out against anti-racists.
[00:23:18]  You got to be against anti-racist.
[00:23:19]  Yeah, totally.
[00:23:21]  So I don't, but by the way, I don't know exactly what the situation is going on.
[00:23:25]  I'm not behind the scenes for all these conversations, but I will say that I think Spike's just been great lately.
[00:23:31]  And I really like him personally as a guy.
[00:23:34]  And so we debated immigration on The Lines of Liberty.
[00:23:39]  That show is out.
[00:23:40]  I don't think it's on YouTube because I think they got in YouTube trouble, but it's definitely on Odyssey and it's on the Lions of Liberty like podcast RSS feed.
[00:23:49]  So go check that out if you're interested.
[00:23:51]  And I really enjoyed the debate.
[00:23:53]  I was happy with how it went.
[00:23:55]  I think Spike made his, he was arguing for open borders.
[00:23:58]  And I was basically arguing that the libertarian position is not to support open borders.
[00:24:03]  And I think he did a good job, you know, making that case.
[00:24:06]  But anyway, I was happy with how the debate went.
[00:24:09]  And I've gotten a, I would say, an overwhelmingly positive response from the debate.
[00:24:17]  Now, just the point I was making before, the reason why I would even talk about an issue like this, because it does feel to me like during the, you know, the COVID regime and all of this stuff, if you're like, if you were like, hey, Dave, I want to have a debate about minarchy versus anarchy.
[00:24:36]  It would seem almost like ridiculous to even talk about.
[00:24:40]  Like as the government is literally like locking us in our houses, we're talking about whether or not once we've gotten rid of every government program we hate, we should privatize the sidewalks or not.
[00:24:51]  Just seems a little ridiculous.
[00:24:53]  Like, what are we, are we living in the real world or are we living in our abstract mind?
[00:24:57]  You know, so there's something there's a an element of that with debating open borders versus not completely open borders.
[00:25:06]  Like none of this is happening anytime soon.
[00:25:08]  Why does this even matter?
[00:25:09]  You know, but the reason why it matters to me, essentially, is that like, I think that what the country needs right now is a, is a big libertarian movement.
[00:25:23]  Like a bunch of people who are, even if it's not perfect, pure Rothbardian libertarianism, a bunch of people who are really set on we need to move toward more liberty rather than less.
[00:25:37]  That to me means a lot.
[00:25:39]  And I think that if libertarians are to be out there and we're going to be like trying to lead that charge kind of, that arguing for open borders is going to just like totally sabotage this whole thing.
[00:25:55]  So that's, that's kind of like what where my interest in this comes.
[00:26:00]  Now, I also believe that open borders is not the correct libertarian position.
[00:26:05]  So I'm like, what are we doing putting something out there that could sabotage this beautiful moment we have to really be like, hey, look, we are kind of right about everything.
[00:26:16]  And what's the problem with the last two years?
[00:26:18]  And really the problem with the last 20 years and really the problem with the last 120 years is that we've given up on the core American principle of liberty.
[00:26:29]  Right.
[00:26:30]  So like, that's kind of where I thought it was interesting or worthy of like, let's, let's try to get to the bottom of this and let me try to make my case here.
[00:26:41]  And so I think, look, obviously a lot has happened since then, but in 2016, Donald Trump won with the immigration issue being the absolute centerpiece of his campaign.
[00:26:53]  So this is an important enough thing to a lot of people that it matters that we get this right.
[00:27:00]  Anyway, so what I was really happy about with the debate was that I was very happy to be able to kind of give what my argument is out there.
[00:27:11]  Because a lot of libertarians, you know, there's, or at least a decent amount.
[00:27:16]  When I say a lot of libertarians, by the way, let me be clear about this.
[00:27:19]  I did a poll in the Mises Caucus Facebook group, which has a few thousand people in there.
[00:27:23]  I think like 5,000 or something like that.
[00:27:25]  And I did a poll like, do you support open borders?
[00:27:28]  Yes or no?
[00:27:29]  And the overwhelming majority was no.
[00:27:32]  I was surprised by that and encouraged by that.
[00:27:35]  But there's actually a lot of libertarians out there who recognize a lot of the stuff I'm talking about.
[00:27:40]  But there is a portion of libertarians who are very upset by this, who are take it as a given that the libertarian position should be open borders, absolutely no immigration restrictions.
[00:27:51]  And so what I wanted to do basically was go on record saying, hey, here's the argument for why they're not that or why that's not the libertarian position and have someone like Spike Cohen, who's like about the most competent and principled libertarian you could have, giving me pushback on that.
[00:28:12]  And then see, okay, how does my argument hold up?
[00:28:16]  So that was kind of what I liked about the debate.
[00:28:19]  And real quickly, I don't want to go too far into this because there's some other stuff we want to talk about.
[00:28:24]  But from the people who were upset about this, I've been getting like, you know, I've heard from some of them on Twitter, although I got to say, it is a minority, a solid minority of the people who listened to the debate who are like, well, you're just not a libertarian if you don't believe in open borders.
[00:28:46]  And this is, you know, you're taking the authoritarian statist position or this stuff.
[00:28:50]  And I just want to put this out there one more time.
[00:28:52]  And this is, now I think Spike did a good job.
[00:28:54]  I think he did about as good a job as you can do arguing for the open borders position.
[00:28:59]  But here is what I will put out there.
[00:29:02]  And if anyone wants to actually take this on, because there's been a whole bunch of people who are like, I want you to do another debate about immigration or another debate.
[00:29:08]  I want you to debate this person or that person.
[00:29:10]  And I'm like, well, look, I just did this debate.
[00:29:14]  I don't know how much time I actually want to devote to this issue.
[00:29:19]  But if someone wants to take on this, I'll be open to it.
[00:29:23]  But this is essentially my argument.
[00:29:26]  And Rob, you can even give me feedback and tell me what you think about this.
[00:29:30]  But my essential argument, which I don't think Spike adequately addressed in the debate, although he did a very good job making several points that I think were very important.
[00:29:39]  But my basic argument was this, is that the libertarians who advocate for open borders are taking as a given that government property ought to be open to all comers with no restrictions.
[00:30:00]  That if there is, if the government controls a piece of property, that therefore, because the government controls it, they can't restrict people from coming into it.
[00:30:11]  That is, if you're arguing that, you know, the whole like, well, it's just a person crossing a line.
[00:30:18]  Why would some man with a gun, you know, stop them from doing that?
[00:30:22]  If you're taking that argument, then essentially what you're saying is that, well, this is government property and no one can restrict who comes into it or who doesn't.
[00:30:32]  But that does not follow from libertarianism.
[00:30:37]  That if you believe in self-ownership and the non-aggression principle and private property rights, it does not follow that because the government has stolen property or stolen tax dollars and then use those tax dollars to build roads or whatever or the border area is controlled by the government, that therefore that belongs to everyone of the world equally.
[00:31:05]  Like that doesn't follow.
[00:31:07]  In the same way that like if someone stole your wallet, Rob, it does not follow that therefore that wallet now belongs to everyone of the world.
[00:31:17]  Like, no, the truth is that that wallet should be returned to you.
[00:31:22]  And if the government has property that it, you know, has, you know, if taxation is theft and the government is funded by theft and then the government claims property, well, who really owns the property rightfully?
[00:31:39]  In a sense, the taxpayers do.
[00:31:41]  You know, it's not just the somebody who's never been a part of this country and never, you know, paid anything into it and never been fucked over by this country or anything like that.
[00:31:51]  They don't have the same claim to it that an American citizen does.
[00:31:55]  And if you look at the polling, the overwhelming majority, something approaching 90% of Americans do not support open borders.
[00:32:02]  So for the government to have open borders, that in itself is not a libertarian position.
[00:32:11]  Like there's just nothing about that that's libertarian.
[00:32:14]  And there's a couple of things I would say, right?
[00:32:17]  So I, and if anyone wants to take this on, I would be interested in talking to someone about this argument if they find a problem with this.
[00:32:24]  But so I'd say that if you're going to argue that there can be, they're just once the government takes from the people and anything that is government property because the government is illegitimate, therefore there should be no restrictions on who enters the government property.
[00:32:45]  And therefore, this should be either unowned or the commons or just everyone should be allowed in equally.
[00:32:53]  If you're going to apply that principle everywhere, you're going to run into some real problems.
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[00:34:30]  Like a CIA building.

=== Endangering Children at the Border (11:46) ===

[00:34:34]  Yes.
[00:34:34]  Well, sure, absolutely.
[00:34:36]  way a lot of those people who support open borders they're they're very upset about january 6th but hey i mean we got to have open borders on government property right i mean who are you to deny someone their their right to walk into the capitol building whenever they want but also the examples that i've used before are like well anyone should be able to walk into a public school you know who are you to stop a man that's just a man crossing an arbitrary line.
[00:35:05]  Yeah, and that's where the 18-year-old cheerleaders are.
[00:35:06]  I mean, if you're trying to specifically find those people and hit them.
[00:35:10]  Well, listen, it's right.
[00:35:11]  So, so what are you going to tell some fucking 45-year-old meth addict that he can't go into the, you know.
[00:35:18]  The gym teacher is the only one who gets to hit on those volleyball players?
[00:35:22]  That's ridiculous.
[00:35:23]  But right.
[00:35:23]  So if you're going to take the argument all the way to that point, then okay, at least you're being consistent with it.
[00:35:29]  But I think you're going to realize that this is like getting you into some crazy territory.
[00:35:34]  And, you know, whatever.
[00:35:35]  There's a lot of other examples.
[00:35:36]  I think one of the ones I used in the debate with Spike was that, so if there's a state college, everyone has a right to go to that state college and they can't discriminate against the fucking, you know, the ninth grade dropout or the valedictorian.
[00:35:50]  They both have the absolute right to go to that college because it's a state college, right?
[00:35:55]  I mean, this just makes no sense.
[00:35:57]  And it doesn't follow from libertarian principles.
[00:35:59]  Now, it is completely within libertarian principles to say that state college should be privatized.
[00:36:05]  Okay, fair.
[00:36:08]  But to say as before it's privatized, the first step has to be opening the doors to anyone who wants to go.
[00:36:14]  I mean, what does that do other than just lead to obvious chaos?
[00:36:18]  Can I, I'm actually, I'm going to take the other side here, Davey Smith.
[00:36:22]  Yeah.
[00:36:23]  Yeah, I am.
[00:36:23]  No, no, no.
[00:36:24]  I ideally, I think open borders would be great.
[00:36:28]  I think with the social costs and the fact that it leads to more government theft because we have to provide good and services for these people, that's what makes it just dumb and not practical.
[00:36:39]  Well, but I listen, that's not the point I'm making.
[00:36:42]  No, no, so I'm saying, so to counter your point, I think the argument from the libertarians, like take, take your college example.
[00:36:51]  If at the moment people were just sneaking into that college, let's just say people did not accept the fact that, hey, the government gets to decide who does and doesn't go to this college.
[00:37:00]  And since it's a government college, people are just showing up and going.
[00:37:04]  So their logic is like, that's people disrespecting the state.
[00:37:09]  And so why would we want to say, hey, the state should have the power to enforce anything because that legitimizes the state.
[00:37:16]  So their logic is that.
[00:37:18]  Okay, so do that.
[00:37:19]  So do that with a middle school now.
[00:37:21]  You're saying that it would be inappropriate for random people.
[00:37:25]  No, because this is not my argument, but I'm saying the argument that they're not making.
[00:37:31]  My point is that no, but even that, because you could still argue, you could say, hey, listen, I don't think public schools should exist at all.
[00:37:38]  So if random homeless people are now showing up to public school, that erodes the entire institution.
[00:37:44]  So that might be a step in the direction of getting rid of public schools or acknowledging.
[00:37:48]  So to that argument, I would say that the idea that you're going to promote that so that in hopes that one day that that makes people realize that the state just can't is unworkable is that number one, first off, you're going to endanger children.
[00:38:04]  What you're promoting is endangering children under current situations, under current circumstances, and that this is going to cause nothing but mass human suffering.
[00:38:16]  And then ultimately, after that, what comes out of it is a Rothbardian anarchist state or something like that.
[00:38:22]  I go, this is not, this almost seems to me to be on the level of like what the commies like believe.
[00:38:29]  Like, look, we're going to, well, we got to break a few eggs to make an omelet, but eventually we'll get there.
[00:38:35]  Probably what's going to happen is they're going to demand even more brutal state authoritarianism to crack down on this.
[00:38:42]  But I also don't think that it's like, no, look, I think there's a much sounder argument to be made that it's like, you stole this money from whatever, if it's schools, from people paying property taxes, let's say, and are forcing them to send their kids there.
[00:38:59]  And so, yes, it all should be privatized, but the better solution would be to like, or not the better solution.
[00:39:06]  The better solution is for it to be privatized.
[00:39:08]  But in the short run, it is better that you don't let dangerous people around their children.
[00:39:14]  Like, I think that there's a stronger case for that.
[00:39:17]  By the way, there's a validity to the building and to this certainty.
[00:39:20]  No, I'm not saying there's validity.
[00:39:22]  I'm saying it exists in reality.
[00:39:24]  That's the case.
[00:39:25]  And accepting that goes that there's some validity to it versus going, hey, don't let's go.
[00:39:33]  I'm just saying there's reality.
[00:39:34]  I'm saying there's reality to it.
[00:39:36]  I'm not saying there's validity to it.
[00:39:38]  And the truth is that either way, once we're in this argument, we're in an argument about strategy.
[00:39:45]  Like your argument essentially is that if you did this, maybe it would result in a better situation.
[00:39:51]  But there's not, this isn't a libertarian argument.
[00:39:54]  The libertarian argument is that this shouldn't exist at all.
[00:39:57]  But once it does exist, there's not really a libertarian argument for how it should be managed.
[00:40:03]  And so I, you know, so that's essentially the point that this is not that it's not as pure of a libertarian argument as people think it is.
[00:40:15]  And look, I'm just, I get the point that you're making.
[00:40:18]  The purity to them is in the, it's in the non-contributing.
[00:40:22]  So it's like advocating.
[00:40:23]  So yes, it's a broken system, but having policing the border is increasing state and government power.
[00:40:31]  No, it's all the state and government power already exists.
[00:40:34]  It's not an increase in government power in the same way that it's like, look, it's not a matter of legitimizing anything.
[00:40:40]  It's not legitimizing public schools or it's not like going along with it to say that.
[00:40:45]  Well, if you're saying, hey, there's a problem here and the only way for me to solve it is for government to step in with the solution.
[00:40:51]  So you're in a sense.
[00:40:53]  I'm not saying government.
[00:40:55]  No, because you're saying I need government to police the border.
[00:40:57]  I need them to step in and secure the border.
[00:41:00]  So now, even though that is the reaction to an earlier government policy, you're advocating for an increase and you're legitimizing, hey, I need you to.
[00:41:09]  No, hold on.
[00:41:10]  Let's be very clear.
[00:41:11]  I'm not advocating for an increase.
[00:41:13]  This already exists.
[00:41:15]  Like I'm not, if I say that public schools shouldn't let hobos walk into the public school, I'm not advocating for an increase.
[00:41:21]  No, but I'm saying that's the difference between the border and the public schools is that if it currently in public schools, you had a violation of the public schools because you had people just showing up there.
[00:41:32]  And so you were going, well, we have this institution for education.
[00:41:35]  We're already robbing Americans to have the institution for education.
[00:41:38]  We might as well have it function.
[00:41:40]  So the function would be, hey, cops have to come in and remove these people.
[00:41:44]  And so other libertarians would go, well, no, I'd rather delegitimize the institution and not legitimize the cops and say, hey, they've got to work.
[00:41:52]  And if that's your argument in that case, you're arguing to endanger children because you think it will delegitimize the state function.
[00:42:02]  I don't support that.
[00:42:03]  Well, you could also say that parents have their choice not to send their kids there.
[00:42:06]  And so they're right.
[00:42:07]  Okay, right.
[00:42:08]  Yeah, sure.
[00:42:09]  Sure.
[00:42:09]  They have their choice.
[00:42:10]  But right here in the real world, right now, what your policy would do is endanger children.
[00:42:15]  And I don't think we should be on the side of advocating something that would endanger children.
[00:42:20]  This is my point exactly is that like, if you're really going to take this to its logical conclusion, that's the position you're going to be in.
[00:42:27]  And that's a pretty ugly, it's a pretty ugly place to be that you would risk like children being endangered because you think that would prove your point better.
[00:42:37]  Or maybe that would ultimately end up in a world that you think is better.
[00:42:42]  Like that's that.
[00:42:43]  But then you're also you're also presuming that, let's say you just had that cops, cops are not allowed to enforce that people that shouldn't be in school aren't in school.
[00:42:53]  And so you have those people there all the time.
[00:42:55]  So what do you think's more likely that public schools would continue and they would be a dangerous environment?
[00:43:00]  Not even kids, or we would actually close public schools.
[00:43:02]  I think what would happen is people would go through incredible amounts of suffering and probably demand more government action.
[00:43:09]  And it would be an absolute shit show.
[00:43:11]  I mean, look, maybe we should, if we don't want like the government to have a monopoly on the police, maybe we should just stop arresting murderers and rapists.
[00:43:22]  Maybe we shouldn't support any of that either, right?
[00:43:25]  What are we legitimizing the police by allowing them to arrest violent criminals?
[00:43:30]  Maybe we should just do that.
[00:43:31]  There's no more enforcement against private, right?
[00:43:34]  That would actually be consistent with the border view.
[00:43:37]  Well, that's my point.
[00:43:38]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:43:39]  And so if you're, you're going to get yourself, you're going to get yourself into some crazy places if you go down this road.
[00:43:46]  And eventually almost every libertarian, like I just found your breaking point.
[00:43:50]  I don't even have this perspective.
[00:43:52]  No, I know.
[00:43:52]  No, but I'm just saying, even as you're, no, I know.
[00:43:54]  But even as you're playing devil's advocates, man.
[00:43:56]  Yeah.
[00:43:57]  I think that was your breaking point.
[00:43:58]  No, I think that's where you're like, because you're saying they're like, within the current system, you're going to have to have someone police rape and murder.
[00:44:04]  Because obviously this is what it would, this is what would happen if it was privatized.
[00:44:09]  So why is it that if it's public, I have to support the most insane dereliction of duty that will cause mass suffering to everybody.
[00:44:17]  So anyway, this is kind of the logic.
[00:44:19]  Eventually, you'll get to a point where it's like, shit, I don't know if I can actually support that.
[00:44:24]  I lost that one.
[00:44:26]  Whatever.
[00:44:27]  No, but listen, this is my point.
[00:44:28]  But I appreciate the pushback and you're kind of playing devil's advocate here.
[00:44:32]  But this is exactly my point, that you're going to get to a line where at a certain point, you have to go, well, look, as long as the state exists, it's better that they do.
[00:44:44]  And by the way, this principle has to be applied within reason.
[00:44:47]  And it can be applied in very bad ways, you know?
[00:44:49]  But that's kind of the crux of my argument.
[00:44:52]  And this, and this is the last thing I'll say about it.
[00:44:54]  And then I'd be happy to talk about this with, you know, somebody else.
[00:44:58]  I don't know, or maybe, I don't know.
[00:45:01]  But I look at it like this.
[00:45:03]  A lot of people see a lot of libertarians see the obvious violation of rights with border enforcement.
[00:45:11]  And that is clear.
[00:45:13]  And I completely agree with that.
[00:45:15]  That's why I say I'm not for open borders.
[00:45:18]  I don't argue for closed borders.
[00:45:20]  And I don't argue for what the government is doing right now.
[00:45:23]  Look, my essential point started with saying that we're talking about government property and whether government property should be completely unrestricted or there should be some reasonable restrictions or some reasonable rules.
[00:45:36]  I fall back to like, look, as long as there are public schools, I'd rather they teach the kids math than critical race theory.
[00:45:44]  You know, like I'd rather it all just be privatized and abolished or whatever.
[00:45:49]  But if I have to choose between those, I pick those.
[00:45:54]  You know, I'd rather cops do arrest violent criminals than not at all.
[00:45:58]  But I'd rather than either of those, my ultimate preference would be that we privatize the police.
[00:46:04]  So if you, let's say you, Rob, invite your cousin from Israel, you know, over to live at your house and the Border Patrol won't let him come.

=== Libertarian Justifications for Detention (14:34) ===

[00:46:21]  Well, that's pretty obviously a violation of your right and his right.
[00:46:28]  You're just people who want to travel and you have a place to go and all of this, right?
[00:46:32]  So that's, and of course, detaining people and holding them in cages and all of this shit.
[00:46:37]  There's no libertarian justification for any of that.
[00:46:39]  It's and I would never support like building up a new force to deport people or something like that.
[00:46:47]  I think all of that's insane.
[00:46:48]  And I would support drastic reductions in government.
[00:46:51]  I would support abolishing the Department of Homeland Security.
[00:46:54]  I would, you know, whatever we could do to like reduce the size and scope of government.
[00:46:58]  That's that's not open borders.
[00:47:00]  That's just trying your best to kind of like reduce the size of government and also trying your best to like not have heinous violations of natural rights.
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[00:48:24]  Breathefume.com slash problem.
[00:48:26]  And the promo code is problem for 10% off.
[00:48:30]  All right, let's get back into the show.
[00:48:31]  Let's say just hypothetically, and I'll end on this.
[00:48:36]  Let's say hypothetically, there was like a big shopping mall, right?
[00:48:44]  Like if you picture like a huge shopping mall and there's kind of like everything is on sale.
[00:48:50]  But there's the huge like, you know, whatever the area where like you walk through, what do you call that in a mall?
[00:48:56]  The walkway kind of thing where you're walking and then there's all the stores on the side of you.
[00:49:00]  And of course, this shopping mall is their policy is privately owned.
[00:49:06]  And their policy is like, yeah, anyone who wants to come in here can come in here.
[00:49:09]  And maybe some reasonable restrictions.
[00:49:11]  You got to have pants on or something, but whatever.
[00:49:14]  Rob's going.
[00:49:17]  So this is tyranny, bro.
[00:49:20]  But so maybe that's the rule, right?
[00:49:22]  You got to like, but aside from that, anyone can come in.
[00:49:25]  They want you to come in.
[00:49:26]  They want you to look at all the stores and maybe you'll buy something.
[00:49:29]  And then there's some gang, the government that comes through and they go, this whole walkway, this is ours.
[00:49:37]  This is government property.
[00:49:38]  You know, you can kind of own the stores, but you got to pay us all a tax or we run this whole fucking shit now, but this is just our property.
[00:49:47]  And then they say, we're going to restrict who can come in here.
[00:49:51]  You know, a portion of the people who used to be allowed in here are not allowed in here anymore.
[00:49:56]  Well, you can obviously see how this is a violation of rights from a libertarian perspective, right?
[00:50:03]  Like, what do you mean you have these border controls outside this mall?
[00:50:07]  The mall policy, if privatized, would have been, let everybody within reason in here, right?
[00:50:13]  So you're excluding people from this area.
[00:50:15]  So that to me is like the libertarian case against like border protection.
[00:50:21]  However, let me throw a different scenario at you.
[00:50:24]  Let's say there's a situation like the Amish.
[00:50:30]  Okay.
[00:50:30]  The Amish have a community where they're all Amish.
[00:50:35]  You know, they buy a big plot of land and they all live the way the Amish people want to live.
[00:50:40]  Bunch of racist, uninclusive.
[00:50:43]  But none of us really, really seem to feel that way about the Amish, right?
[00:50:47]  Because they're not really imposing on the rest of us.
[00:50:49]  It's like they want to live the way they live.
[00:50:51]  I don't really know much.
[00:50:52]  I saw King once.
[00:50:54]  Yeah, I don't really understand, but that's, you know, okay, so let's, yeah, so great.
[00:50:59]  But let's, so they own a big plot of land and they're like, we're going to live the way we live with no technology and believing in what we believe in.
[00:51:06]  And this is how we do things.
[00:51:07]  And that's fine.
[00:51:08]  And I come there and I go, hey, I'd like to rent from you, you know, Mr. Amish guy in one of these houses.
[00:51:15]  And I'm hold on.
[00:51:16]  Let me just go grab my fucking, you know, laptop and I want to set my plasma TV up here and blah.
[00:51:22]  And they're like, no, we're not renting to you because you're not Amish.
[00:51:24]  And this land is for the Amish.
[00:51:26]  Now, I mean, I suppose I could say they're discriminating against me, blah, blah, blah.
[00:51:30]  But what's the libertarian position on that?
[00:51:32]  So, well, they have the right to do that.
[00:51:33]  That's their property.
[00:51:34]  They can do what they want.
[00:51:35]  So now, let's say government takes over all of the roads in between.
[00:51:41]  This gang comes and takes over all of the roads in the Amish land.
[00:51:45]  And they go, we are deciding they are open.
[00:51:48]  And anyone who wants to come in here can come in here.
[00:51:51]  And by the way, we have discrimination laws and it's illegal for you to not rent out this place to Dave just because he's not one of the Amish.
[00:52:03]  So in that situation, the opening, the compulsory opening would also be a violation of rights.
[00:52:12]  Just the same way that the compulsory closing in the mall was a violation of rights.
[00:52:17]  This is also a violation of rights.
[00:52:19]  So essentially, my point is that the problem is the government existing at all.
[00:52:24]  But the idea that once the government exists and has this property, that open is the answer, not closed, it's like, well, not exactly.
[00:52:34]  It's not exactly clear.
[00:52:36]  And the situation in America is that about 90% of the people do not support open borders.
[00:52:44]  They don't want no immigration.
[00:52:46]  It's not that much.
[00:52:47]  It's only, I think, you know, a small percentage of people in America who want zero immigration.
[00:52:52]  But it's probably a majority of the population who want strong borders, restrictive immigrations.
[00:53:02]  Then another slice of people who want like some borders, not so restrictive immigrations.
[00:53:08]  And maybe you could get like 10% or something like that who want open borders.
[00:53:12]  So it's not in this situation to find out what is the violation of liberty.
[00:53:18]  You almost have to go like, well, where are we?
[00:53:20]  Are we the Amish or are we the mall?
[00:53:22]  Okay, we're definitely not the Amish and we're definitely not the mall.
[00:53:25]  But what exactly is it closest to?
[00:53:27]  What really is the position that would be the least violation of rights?
[00:53:32]  And it is clearly not open borders.
[00:53:36]  And furthermore, just, and I guess I could, I'll wrap on this one.
[00:53:40]  Sorry, but this is what I said in the debate that, you know, in the same way I'm not going to advocate that cops stop arresting murderers, even though I do think the cops are a fucking gang.
[00:53:51]  And I'm not going to advocate that fucking, you know, homeless people can go bathe in, you know, public high school bathrooms.
[00:54:04]  The reason I'm not going to advocate it is because it's going to be a fucking disaster if that is the plan.
[00:54:10]  And most normal people will look at you and go, you're insane if you support that.
[00:54:15]  And for good reason.
[00:54:17]  So why don't libertarians, instead of advocating for these positions, which aren't even exactly libertarian, like even as you were acknowledging before, you're like, well, the argument is that this could lead to delegitimizing the public areas or something.
[00:54:29]  Instead of arguing for that shit, why don't we just argue for all of the libertarian answers that are clearly libertarian that would make the situation much better that normal people can understand?
[00:54:42]  You know, so like instead of saying, well, okay, what's the problem with immigration?
[00:54:46]  You go, well, we should open the borders immediately today.
[00:54:51]  And if 10 million immigrants come through, then they all got to come in.
[00:54:54]  And that's just, we have no right.
[00:54:55]  No one here has any right to tell anyone they can't come in because this America is equally the world's country as much as it is your country, something like that.
[00:55:04]  Instead of saying that, why don't you say like, well, listen, you know, if we ended the war on drugs, it would really like cut down on the problem of drug smugglers coming across the border.
[00:55:15]  Or if we stopped having coups in Central America, there wouldn't be these huge mass, you know, migrations here.
[00:55:21]  Or if we, you know, if we stopped like intervening in all these countries, maybe if we didn't have sanctions on a lot of these countries, maybe if we didn't have protectionism against these countries, they wouldn't be as poor and people wouldn't need to come here.
[00:55:32]  Or maybe if we didn't have a welfare state, there wouldn't be people coming here for the wrong reasons and they would just come here to work.
[00:55:38]  Or maybe, you know what I'm saying?
[00:55:39]  It's like, just why don't we just argue for the pure libertarian positions that actually would make the world better if they were enforced and not be this gamble of like, oh, I don't know.
[00:55:52]  I mean, yeah, sure, maybe it would ruin a whole lot of people's lives, but maybe then they would, you know, have this tragedy.
[00:55:57]  Anyway, for the libertarians who were pissed off at me about that debate, I don't really see a whole lot of them taking on these arguments.
[00:56:06]  I just see them being like, well, you're arguing for the authoritarian position.
[00:56:10]  That's not libertarian.
[00:56:12]  Libertarianism is open borders.
[00:56:14]  And I just don't, I don't think it is.
[00:56:16]  And by the way, Murray Rothbard, Ron Paul, Lou Rockwell, Hans Hoppe, like there's a whole lot of libertarians who are Jeff Dice, Tom Woods.
[00:56:24]  There's a whole lot of libertarians who are with me that like open borders is not the libertarian solution.
[00:56:29]  When I say with me, I'm with them.
[00:56:30]  But I'm just saying I'm, I, this is, I've gotten this from reading great libertarian thinkers.
[00:56:35]  So anyway, I figured that's, uh, I wanted to get that off.
[00:56:39]  I've, I planned on talking about this for about 15 minutes and it turned into more than that.
[00:56:46]  More.
[00:56:47]  I don't know.
[00:56:48]  Okay.
[00:56:48]  I guess we're close to wrapping up now.
[00:56:50]  Is there something else that I should have said about this, Rob?
[00:56:53]  What, immigration?
[00:56:54]  Yeah, I don't know.
[00:56:55]  No, we covered it, dude.
[00:56:57]  There you go.
[00:56:57]  Kick them all out.
[00:56:58]  Build the wall.
[00:57:00]  But I will say that.
[00:57:01]  Round them up.
[00:57:03]  You've gone completely the other way.
[00:57:07]  And the gross review is like, maybe we should let him go everywhere, including into your house.
[00:57:12]  Or we could kill him.
[00:57:13]  I mean, I don't know.
[00:57:14]  It's really, it's someone needs a final solution.
[00:57:16]  I mean, keep going back and forth.
[00:57:18]  And, you know, this is why, this is why I love you, Rob.
[00:57:21]  This is why the people love you.
[00:57:23]  No, but I would just say that you have like, I guess the final thought on it is that when you have a situation where it's like, again, it's not just like you have the borders, right?
[00:57:33]  But if you're saying like the borders should be open under current circumstances, then you also have like government property at this point basically extends up to everyone's doorstep.
[00:57:46]  You know what I mean?
[00:57:47]  Like the roads are government property.
[00:57:49]  They take you almost right to everyone's house.
[00:57:52]  And then of course, you also have a huge issue, which is the schools.
[00:57:58]  And that it's like, well, once you come, everyone has the right to go to public school.
[00:58:04]  Kids, not homeless and methadics as of yet, but kids all have the right to go to public schools.
[00:58:10]  And then, of course, you can't be turned away from a hospital.
[00:58:13]  So you can go to an emergency room.
[00:58:14]  You can go to any hospital and you can't be turned away.
[00:58:16]  That's a big part of the cost that's added to all of our healthcare premiums.
[00:58:21]  Then you have anti-discrimination laws.
[00:58:26]  So you can't not rent to someone or not hire for someone for anything like because they're an immigrant or something like that.
[00:58:34]  And so once at that point, if you have all of those rules in place, then opening the borders is essentially almost like not as extreme, but essentially like with the Amish example, is almost a compulsory opening of society.
[00:58:50]  It's forcing everybody to do something that they may not want to do.
[00:58:54]  And I would just say this to libertarians.
[00:58:57]  That, what I just said, might sound a little bit ugly to some people.
[00:59:01]  Like even when you go like, oh, but like, so you're saying you're not going to hire someone just because they're an immigrant, or you're not going to like, you know, a hospital doesn't want to treat them, or a landlord doesn't want to rent to them, or someone doesn't want their school, you know, their kids to be going to school with them.
[00:59:17]  You may think that sounds ugly, but I don't, if you're a libertarian, I'm just telling you, I don't care what you think sounds ugly.
[00:59:24]  That's not the libertarian principle.
[00:59:27]  The libertarian principle is that relationships and interactions should be voluntary and that they should be consensual.
[00:59:33]  And that if one person doesn't like, if you, if you have your property and you don't want to rent to someone there because you don't like the way they look or you don't like the way they smell or whatever, or you're just in a bad mood, that's your right.
[00:59:45]  Like we're, we're in the business of defending rights, not just what you think.
[00:59:50]  And also that it may not always be quite as like ugly as you think it is.
[00:59:55]  That there's a lot of different groups of people who want their neighborhood to stay the same.
[01:00:03]  And that's not all just pure like nasty racism or something like that.
[01:00:06]  Like some of it's just like, I don't know.
[01:00:10]  Black people in, you know, black neighborhoods often aren't thrilled with gentrification.
[01:00:15]  A lot of times they don't like that.
[01:00:17]  They don't like when their neighborhoods change.
[01:00:19]  And I think there's a lot of people who like, if your kids are going to public school and all of a sudden a huge percentage of their class like doesn't speak English are like not happy with that because they like their culture and their language and their thing.
[01:00:32]  And the libertarian position really should just be about what, you know, what property owners want to do with their property and what the overwhelming majority of property owners in America want to do with their property is not what the government is forcing them to do if they open the borders.

=== Gentrification and Neighborhood Change (00:41) ===

[01:00:55]  So that would be my kind of wrap on that.
[01:00:58]  All right.
[01:00:59]  I guess we're at time.
[01:01:01]  We had some other things to talk about, but we went in this direction today.
[01:01:04]  Okay.
[01:01:05]  All right.
[01:01:06]  One more time.
[01:01:06]  Boston, 13th, 14th, me and Robbie the Fire will be up there.
[01:01:10]  Two live stand-up shows, a live part of the problem podcast.
[01:01:16]  Arizona, right after that for me.
[01:01:18]  What else you got, Rob?
[01:01:20]  I got the 21st.
[01:01:21]  I'm going to be up in Buffalo with Sam Tripoli.
[01:01:23]  And please still check out the run-your-mouth end of your misinformation spectacular.
[01:01:29]  Hell yeah.
[01:01:30]  It was fantastic, dude.
[01:01:31]  For anyone who hasn't checked that out yet, go check it out.
[01:01:33]  It was really great.
[01:01:35]  All right.
[01:01:35]  That's our show for today.
[01:01:36]  Picks