Part Of The Problem - Dave Smith - 759 - The Leading Anarchist w/ Michael Malice
Aired: 2021-07-20
Duration: 01:05:10


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[00:01:08]  We need to roll back the state.
[00:01:10]  We spy on all of our own citizens.
[00:01:12]  Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
[00:01:16]  If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
[00:01:22]  Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
[00:01:26]  You're listening to part of the problem on the Gas Digital Network.
[00:01:30]  Here's your host, James Smith.
[00:01:34]  What is up, everybody?
[00:01:36]  Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
[00:01:38]  I am always psyched to do these crossover episodes, and we've got another one for you.
[00:01:43]  The man, the myth, the legend, Michael Malice, host of Your Welcome, author of many books, most recently, The Anarchist Handbook, which is still just absolutely crushing it.
[00:01:58]  Of course, he also wrote Dear Reader and the New Right, and he's working on another book coming out sometime next year, we hope.
[00:02:04]  I hope this year.
[00:02:05]  Oh, we're hoping for this year.
[00:02:06]  Very good.
[00:02:07]  It's very tough, though.
[00:02:08]  I was hoping for next year.
[00:02:09]  I don't want it yet.
[00:02:10]  I was hoping you do a few more drafts on it.
[00:02:13]  Wait till next year.
[00:02:14]  How are you, brother?
[00:02:16]  It's mixed because a lot of the research is very, very intense.
[00:02:20]  I'm reading about the Berlin Wall and what the Stasi did to people in East Germany.
[00:02:24]  And, you know, you, so one day you're hearing these stories about, you know, like people being tortured and whatever.
[00:02:30]  And the next day you're hearing these stories of heroism where people were like, yeah, I figured out a way to beat these, you know, jack-offs at their own game.
[00:02:37]  So it's really, really, really intense and it gets to you because A, it's not that far away or long ago.
[00:02:44]  Like this is like the 80s where they're like raping children and things and like little concentration camps in East Germany that they set up.
[00:02:52]  But it's also the fact that if I didn't know about this stuff, then like I can be pretty sure virtually no one in America knows about this stuff because this is kind of my beat.
[00:03:03]  So to kind of be the one who's going to be telling the story of these, you know, heroes and just absolute villains is also very intense.
[00:03:12]  Sure, absolutely.
[00:03:14]  I remember Jordan Peterson on Rogan's podcast years ago talking about the idea of heaven and hell.
[00:03:23]  And he said something that really stuck with me.
[00:03:25]  And he said that he was like, you know, they were kind of on the conversation of whether that's real or not.
[00:03:31]  And he was like, well, we don't really need to look that far to find hell.
[00:03:35]  Like hell is real.
[00:03:36]  And there are real people living in hell right here in this world.
[00:03:39]  And he talks about, you know, like, you know, Jews and Nazi concentration camps and people in the gulags and stuff like that.
[00:03:46]  You're like, yeah, those people are living through hell.
[00:03:48]  And the fact is that there are people all around the world who are living in hell right now.
[00:03:54]  And some just, you know, and many here in our countries, even just in the sense of like just being in miserable relationships, you know, children who have abusive parents and things like that.
[00:04:03]  Like your life is just hell.
[00:04:04]  And there is something incredibly depressing about, you know, being confronted with that.
[00:04:09]  Because for those of us who are not in hell, we may have our problems, but it's very easy to be removed from that, that other real human beings lived or are living in situations like that.
[00:04:21]  Yeah, I mentioned this story when I was on Lex Friedman's podcast last week.
[00:04:24]  I did the trigonometry podcast.
[00:04:26]  And when the host told me about how back in the Soviet Union, there were prison guards, obviously, for the gulags.
[00:04:33]  And then when Khrushchev came into power after Stalin, I believe in what, 53, and he's like, yeah, a lot of this stuff was really messed up.
[00:04:40]  And Khrushchev liberalized that some of these guards killed themselves because they had genuinely believed that these people in these camps should have been there.
[00:04:46]  And when they learned that they'd been doing this to innocent people, they couldn't handle that guilt.
[00:04:50]  So that's the thing.
[00:04:53]  It's like, it's not just like with North Korea, it's not just that they have to go to these dopey schools and like have this guy's picture in the wall and wear the lapel pin.
[00:05:01]  Who cares?
[00:05:02]  I mean, if that's the worst of it, okay, who cares?
[00:05:04]  But it's that the layers of depravity.
[00:05:07]  And you just think about like, you're some kid and you're like, oh, I'm going to join the party.
[00:05:11]  Now I've got status.
[00:05:13]  You know, now, you know, I've got a girlfriend.
[00:05:15]  People tell me I'm a hero.
[00:05:16]  My family's proud of me.
[00:05:18]  I can feed them.
[00:05:19]  And then the next thing you know, you're like in Siberia watching like kids starve.
[00:05:24]  And you're like, wait, what?
[00:05:25]  And like, you could see him being like, I didn't sign up for this, but you kind of did, but you're a dumb kid.
[00:05:31]  Same thing with the war machine here.
[00:05:33]  You know, it's like you think, oh, I'm going to sign up.
[00:05:35]  This is going to be great.
[00:05:36]  And then you're like, wait, what?
[00:05:37]  What?
[00:05:37]  What am I watching my buddies die for what?
[00:05:40]  It's really, it's really, I mean, this is the state at its worst, obviously.
[00:05:45]  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:05:46]  No, I've talked to a lot of combat vets on and off the podcast.
[00:05:51]  And it's really something where there'll be these kids who grow up in like, you know, shit towns and they're not great in school.
[00:06:01]  You know, like they're, you're, maybe they're like C students or something like that.
[00:06:04]  And you're like, so what is the option here?
[00:06:06]  It's like, I don't know.
[00:06:07]  Everyone else you know is like going to get a job at Arby's or something.
[00:06:11]  Like there is really no path.
[00:06:12]  And then comes in the federal government and they go, well, here you can do something incredibly noble, defend your country, defend the Bill of Rights.
[00:06:20]  We're going to get you in college.
[00:06:21]  We're going to get you on your on your way to having like a better life.
[00:06:24]  And you get to have this badass identity.
[00:06:27]  And it's like, well, I mean, sure.
[00:06:30]  And with those options, that sounds really good.
[00:06:32]  And next thing you know, like a few weeks of training, one deployment, and you are now firing at villagers, you know, thousands of miles across the globe.
[00:06:43]  It's really, it's, it's something.
[00:06:45]  Yeah.
[00:06:46]  Yeah.
[00:06:46]  So it's, it's, yeah.
[00:06:48]  I, I, there's, what else can I say?
[00:06:49]  It's the kind of thing where like words don't do it justice.
[00:06:51]  Yeah.
[00:06:52]  When you're talking about like, you know, kids being driven to suicide, it's, it's, what are you supposed to say about it?
[00:06:56]  So I, but that's my job.
[00:06:58]  So like I have to figure out how to talk about this.
[00:07:00]  And it's, it's not fun, I assure you.
[00:07:02]  Well, I imagine with um writing the North Korea book, there was a lot of confronting that type of stuff as well.
[00:07:09]  It wasn't as bad because a lot of it was North Korean propaganda.
[00:07:13]  So a lot of it's like, this is all great and like sweeping the rug.
[00:07:16]  So I kind of could, you know, that, but also it hits, this hits a lot closer to home being from, you know, the former Soviet Union.
[00:07:23]  So to be like, yeah, my family saw all this and lived with it.
[00:07:27]  And like, I hear a lot of responses now on social media when I talk about on Lex when people are like, yeah, like my grandfather did this.
[00:07:34]  My grandfather did this.
[00:07:36]  And they would never talk about it until like they were like 90 because they didn't want us to know what they went through.
[00:07:41]  And it's, it's, it's just, you could also imagine like this like old person with their grandkid complaining that like someone's mean to them at school.
[00:07:48]  Like, you don't understand what it's like.
[00:07:50]  And them just smiling and nodding.
[00:07:52]  And you want this little simpleton to just keep, yeah, okay, you know, like, yeah, it's, it's so, uh, that, but that's the other reason I'm so optimistic.
[00:08:00]  Like, as bad as things are now, and as evil as these people are now, I, it's not even in a same galaxy as what happened in the 30s and 40s.
[00:08:10]  Like, it's not even close.
[00:08:12]  Yeah.
[00:08:12]  And it's, and the other thing is, because of technology, like, it's a lot easier to get away with this crap when not everyone has a smartphone and you don't have like access to the direct data and video.
[00:08:25]  I mean, if you had cell phones with cameras during slavery, a lot of people would be like, good, they'd approve of it.
[00:08:32]  So they're a wash.
[00:08:34]  But there's lots of people, young people, women, who if they had to see footage of people getting whipped and beaten and crying out in pain, even if they're racist and think this is not, you know, someone who's your equal, it's really hard to look at that and be like, yeah, this is fine.
[00:08:49]  There would be a big percentage of that population be like, whoa, This has to stop immediately.
[00:08:56]  So that's another reason I'm hopeful for the future.
[00:09:00]  It's here's another one.
[00:09:01]  Like if you had back in the day, some president who's not even there, you know, his speechwriter writes a speech.
[00:09:08]  They release the speech to the press.
[00:09:09]  You read it in the newspaper.
[00:09:11]  This guy's smart and educated.
[00:09:13]  You put that same guy on camera and you're like, this, this is the most powerful man in the world.
[00:09:18]  This is who I'm supposed to be like looking up to.
[00:09:20]  Dude, if we were living if we were living in the technology of 150 years ago, I'd right now be like, you know, this Biden guy is pretty sharp.
[00:09:29]  Yeah.
[00:09:30]  I mean, I just read his speech.
[00:09:32]  It's guy's pretty good.
[00:09:33]  He's on top of it.
[00:09:34]  I'm not a Democrat, but he's not saying anything unreasonable.
[00:09:37]  And, you know, you would think that.
[00:09:39]  And you'd look at him.
[00:09:40]  You'd be like, okay, this guy looks like a president with the engravings or the daguerreotype.
[00:09:45]  So I think this is something that we take for granted to some extent.
[00:09:49]  I think you're right.
[00:09:50]  And of course, you were talking about this on Lex.
[00:09:54]  One of the great examples of this, of course, is Martin Luther King's stunts during the civil rights movement, which really were all well-devised stunts.
[00:10:03]  He was like, I know where we're going.
[00:10:04]  We're going to Birmingham, Alabama, and we are going to resist.
[00:10:07]  And I know what they'll do to us.
[00:10:09]  And then it's, it's, it's, and this is so much of the anarchist kind of point that we've been making forever is that people are very removed from what the nature of the government is.
[00:10:21]  And you see this all around you.
[00:10:22]  Like whenever, you know, if a conversation about legalizing heroin comes up or a conversation about prostitute, legalizing prostitution or any of these other things comes up, it always becomes a conversation on whether or not that's good for society, this thing.
[00:10:37]  But the anarchist position is that we're not, the only question that should matter in terms of political organizing of a society is what are you comfortable with enslaving a human being with the threat of murder if they try to escape.
[00:10:55]  Yeah.
[00:10:56]  And once you face that, it's very hard to get there with anything other than a violent criminal.
[00:11:00]  I'll give you another example that just happened last year.
[00:11:02]  There was some woman who, you know, there was an edict in one of these Canadian provinces about how, and people misunderstood it because it sounded so crazy.
[00:11:10]  They thought my interpretation was wrong, where you were supposed to quarantine your kid within your house.
[00:11:15]  So it wasn't like the whole family stuck in the house.
[00:11:17]  It was the kid is by themselves in his own room with the door closed for like two weeks.
[00:11:22]  And he's texting mom that he's lonely and bored.
[00:11:24]  And the mom's tweeting about how rough this is on her.
[00:11:28]  If you saw a video of a child banging on the door saying, mommy, I'm like scared and lonely, I wouldn't be able to deal with that.
[00:11:36]  And I don't care about this kid.
[00:11:37]  I would lose it.
[00:11:39]  It's so hard to hear that.
[00:11:41]  So it's one thing to read about.

=== Leading Anarchist Voice (15:51) ===

[00:11:42]  It's another thing to experience it.
[00:11:45]  And who knows in 20 years when it's like VR and you actually are looking at that door and hearing the kid, it's going to be even more insanely intense.
[00:11:53]  Yeah.
[00:11:54]  Well, another good example of this in somewhat recent history is the Vietnam War.
[00:12:00]  It was the first war where there was this real video footage and coming back in real time to people and then having to see it, having to deal with the consequences, not being able to kind of remove yourself from the reality of the situation and kind of live in this kind of abstraction of like, well, we're fighting communism.
[00:12:18]  It's like, no, this is what you're doing.
[00:12:20]  This is right here.
[00:12:21]  And I don't know if you know this, but plastic surgery was invented after World War I because this was the first time after the Industrial Revolution, you had this large-scale war and people are coming back when you have machines meeting flesh, coming back all mangled and deformed.
[00:12:35]  They were trying to stitch people back together and they look like complete monsters.
[00:12:38]  But you see, if you look at these photos or see what's happening, like this is one of them.
[00:12:42]  I don't think this is a major reason, but certainly a minor reason when people are like, what is going on?
[00:12:47]  This is really bad.
[00:12:48]  Yeah.
[00:12:49]  Yeah, absolutely.
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[00:13:56]  All right, let's get back into the show.
[00:13:58]  Hey, so I wanted to, I had this thought the other day.
[00:14:02]  And what was her name?
[00:14:04]  I had this thought the other day.
[00:14:05]  She's Insta, famous.
[00:14:09]  So I, and this really, I guess I hadn't thought about it exactly like this before, but I was really like, oh my God, I think this might be true.
[00:14:17]  And I was curious what you think.
[00:14:18]  And this, maybe this was true already, but certainly after you put out the anarchist handbook and how like phenomenally well received this book has been.
[00:14:28]  But I think that you might be the leading anarchist voice in America right now.
[00:14:36]  Yeah, I have my locals, like it's like my Patreon, malice.locals.com.
[00:14:41]  I have a lot of supporters.
[00:14:42]  And one of the things, let's talk about this because this is something that you also have to deal with.
[00:14:48]  And I said, one of the things that when your platform increases, I think it was Bill Murray or Chevy Chase, one of the two, I read an oral history of Starring Live and they made the point.
[00:14:56]  They said, when you become famous, you don't change everyone else does.
[00:15:00]  And I go, okay, I'm trying to, my ego is already completely out of control is the size of the earth.
[00:15:05]  Am I the most prominent anarchist, you know, in America right now?
[00:15:10]  And I'm like, I can't think of who the counterexample would be.
[00:15:12]  And they're like, well, like Dave and Tom, but like you're, they're not doing as mainstream stuff as you are.
[00:15:18]  And I'm like, man, this is, this is really kind of weird because it's all a bunch of crap.
[00:15:22]  I'm a liberal Democrat.
[00:15:23]  This is just a big grift.
[00:15:25]  And it's now I've really kind of backed myself into a corner.
[00:15:27]  I'm a Biden.
[00:15:28]  I gave money to Biden for a reason.
[00:15:30]  I mean, the guy, what are you going to have?
[00:15:32]  This orange lunatic?
[00:15:33]  Oh, my God.
[00:15:34]  This would be the best troll ever if it just turned out.
[00:15:37]  And you're like, of course, I don't believe any of this.
[00:15:40]  How are you going to keep your house safe without the police?
[00:15:43]  Do you need to hear yourself?
[00:15:44]  So, what's what are you gonna do with China invades?
[00:15:45]  You're gonna tell them about the NAP?
[00:15:47]  Good luck with that.
[00:15:49]  Oh, man, that really would be no, but I mean, I was thinking, so this thought dawned on me, and almost in a way, and part of this is, I think, because I, you know, we're good friends and I know you very well.
[00:15:59]  And you almost thought that to myself, like, I think Michael is the leading anarchist voice in the country.
[00:16:05]  And then I'm like, no, wait a minute.
[00:16:07]  Okay, who am I like not thinking of?
[00:16:08]  Chomsky's been the one.
[00:16:09]  Chomsky, but here's the thing, right?
[00:16:11]  Okay, you could argue Chomsky, but then the other point is that he's, you know, 111.
[00:16:17]  Yeah.
[00:16:18]  So even if you're saying Chomsky is, it's like, okay.
[00:16:21]  And truthfully, look, I have always held Chomsky in high regard.
[00:16:27]  I've always said to people that I think his work is absolutely like invaluable to read.
[00:16:32]  And I highly recommend.
[00:16:34]  I think you like, I've benefited a lot from his work.
[00:16:36]  And I think that many, many people have.
[00:16:39]  And you, if you haven't read him, you should.
[00:16:41]  You probably can benefit a lot from him.
[00:16:45]  That being said, all due respect, he has just totally humiliated himself over the last few years.
[00:16:52]  Has sad to see him go, oh, yeah, just totally shilling for Biden, all about Biden.
[00:16:58]  The war monger?
[00:16:59]  Yes.
[00:17:00]  And the crime guy, really?
[00:17:02]  You have to vote for Biden because Trump was such a unique evil and because of climate change.
[00:17:07]  Climate change, everything is about climate.
[00:17:09]  The earth is threatened.
[00:17:11]  And so we need the Democrats are better than the Republicans on climate.
[00:17:14]  And so we need to do whatever we can to get them in.
[00:17:16]  It's just really like for the guy who was over the last 50 years the leading anarchist voice.
[00:17:24]  I mean, I just find nothing more disgusting.
[00:17:27]  Biden doesn't give a crap about the climate.
[00:17:29]  You know what I mean?
[00:17:29]  Like, even on his issues, like there's certain things that like, you know, some people talk about a lot and it's their pet issue, whatever.
[00:17:36]  It's not even one of his big issues.
[00:17:38]  He doesn't care.
[00:17:39]  Chomsky would argue that the Democrats are better because the Republicans want to deregulate everything and blah, blah, blah.
[00:17:45]  So if Trump's in, it'll be that much worse.
[00:17:48]  And this is the event that means more than anything else.
[00:17:51]  And it's like, to me, how are you going to be an an first off?
[00:17:54]  I don't know how you're going to be an anarchist and place this issue, which is the most statist issue.
[00:17:59]  Like the, you know, the argument is that the climate only huge centralized governments can tackle this issue and not at least point out things like, okay, well, the military is like the biggest polluter in our nation.
[00:18:14]  The Chinese government is the other huge polluter.
[00:18:18]  Like, yes, like the idea that you would at least go like, well, a lot of the problem is that our government is kind of in bed with energy companies a little bit.
[00:18:26]  I don't know if you've noticed, you know, and there's none of that.
[00:18:29]  It's just like, oh, we have to vote for the Democrats.
[00:18:31]  So anyway, I don't think he's doing much to carry the torch for anarchists.
[00:18:34]  How would any anarchist endorse voting at all?
[00:18:37]  Yeah.
[00:18:38]  Yeah.
[00:18:39]  Now, it would be one thing if he said we should want a very pro climate change fight, Democratic leadership in Washington.
[00:18:48]  We should want that because this is such an important issue.
[00:18:50]  That's not the same as vote for Biden.
[00:18:53]  I mean, I will say I'm not.
[00:18:55]  And honestly, one more thing, just strategically, sorry to interrupt you.
[00:18:58]  The argument would be vote for the Green Party because if the Green Party gets enough votes, that's going to put pressure on both the Republicans and Democrats to make this a much better way to send that signal on that one specific issue.
[00:19:10]  Well, just like the populists and progressives did over 100 years ago.
[00:19:13]  So his argument was the classic, you know, voting for the Green Party ensures Donald Trump wins.
[00:19:18]  So it's a vote for Donald Trump, and that's the worst thing in the world.
[00:19:22]  It's, you know, no, the worst thing in the world in this logic is a Democrat who co-opts this issue and doesn't do anything about it.
[00:19:30]  That's the nightmare scenario, right?
[00:19:32]  What you want is a clear choice where you have this Republican who wants to destroy the planet and a Democrat who's actually sees the crisis and is committed.
[00:19:39]  Biden is not that person.
[00:19:41]  Kamala Harris is not that person.
[00:19:43]  The only way to get these people to be that person because they are just complete corporate automatons is to have a strong environmentalist alternative because then the Democrats panic and they're gonna, that would be my argument here.
[00:19:56]  Oh, yeah, no, I completely agree with you.
[00:19:58]  But anyway, I'm just my point is just that even if you were gonna put Chomsky up, I think he's wrong about all this stuff.
[00:20:03]  But even if you're gonna put Chomsky up there, it's like, yeah, man, Chomsky is very old.
[00:20:07]  And then some other prominent, you know, he's certainly, I'd say Lou Rockwell is a prominent anarchist, not in not as popular, you know, famous as Chomsky was, certainly, but within anarchist circles, you know, like is very well known.
[00:20:21]  And these other guys, but first off, they're all very old.
[00:20:27]  And second of all, yeah, I just, I look around at the landscape of anarchists in America, at least.
[00:20:33]  Maybe there's some in Europe that I don't know about, but I'm including left and right, you know, anarchists here.
[00:20:38]  And there's nobody who's on as many big platforms as you, who has kind of the body of work that you have, and is truly, and one of the things that separates you from even me or Tom is that you really are, you run purely with the anarchist banner a lot more than we do.
[00:20:57]  Whereas I think most people would put us more in the libertarian camp.
[00:21:02]  We use that label more than just anarchist.
[00:21:05]  Well, I think also I'm in more mainstream spaces than you are.
[00:21:08]  That would be a difference.
[00:21:09]  Yes.
[00:21:09]  No, I think so.
[00:21:10]  I think you're right.
[00:21:11]  And so that's, I don't know.
[00:21:14]  That's kind of like a heavy thought, like the idea of being the leading anarchist voice in the country.
[00:21:21]  I am more interested in being the leading voice of hope for kids who want freedom and kids who think it's impossible.
[00:21:32]  And I am much more interested in promoting joy and achievement and making something of yourself than I am.
[00:21:40]  I think anarchism is what allows that and is a consequence of that.
[00:21:44]  And I think that was kind of a this is what Rand did very well.
[00:21:47]  And, you know, she obviously is an enormous role model for me.
[00:21:51]  She didn't just give people like a worldview.
[00:21:53]  She got them ginned up.
[00:21:55]  She got them excited.
[00:21:56]  But even she, even she kind of has this kind of miserable air about her, like this kind of curmudgeonly aspect, which I try to avoid.
[00:22:03]  Like, yeah, I'm a jackass on Twitter and I'm mean to people, but I'm still clearly having fun and enjoying myself, which she didn't seem to be like, she's not a fun person.
[00:22:14]  And that's not, that's just her personality.
[00:22:16]  It doesn't mean she's a bad person, but it's going to have a different consequence in terms of the audience.
[00:22:21]  Can I tell you when I uh when I met Ron Paul and did the uh the Liberty Report, which was really like, you know, like one of the best, if not the best moments of my career, like it was just such a cool thing to like be on Ron Paul's show to meet the guy who like introduced me to all this stuff.
[00:22:39]  And he said at one point to me, you know, like we were talking for a while on the show.
[00:22:42]  I forget exactly how he said it, but at one point he just goes, he goes, so Dave, are you optimistic about the future?
[00:22:48]  But he said it in a way where it was just kind of like this like professor who's like, no, who's like, and the correct answer is yes.
[00:22:57]  And I was like, yes, I'm very optimistic about the future.
[00:23:00]  And he goes, that's right.
[00:23:01]  We have to be optimistic.
[00:23:03]  And that was one of my favorite things about Ron Paul is that he was always a happy warrior.
[00:23:08]  Even when he just kind of knew, he's like, look, I know I'm going to go into this Republican debate.
[00:23:12]  I'm going to get booed out of this.
[00:23:14]  They asked him.
[00:23:15]  They said, do you think about yourself in the all-love?
[00:23:16]  He's like, no.
[00:23:18]  Like, why would I?
[00:23:20]  But he always, he always knew what he was doing.
[00:23:23]  And he did great.
[00:23:24]  And it's the same thing that I'm floating out the idea of doing is that like nobody seriously thinks I'm saying, I want to go take the reins of power and do X, Y, and Z once I control the government.
[00:23:35]  We're talking about a speaking tour.
[00:23:37]  You know what I mean?
[00:23:37]  Like you're talking about spreading these ideas and like mocking the whole system and having fun with it and introducing these ideas to new people.
[00:23:47]  But that idea of just being relentlessly optimistic and appreciating having some perspective on these things.
[00:23:55]  Like I was on Pete Quinones' show recently and I was talking about how I was like, dude, just like at this point, I'm like, even hearing the term black pill just makes my blood boil.
[00:24:06]  Like you're like, I was talking about this.
[00:24:09]  Yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt you.
[00:24:09]  You're about to have another kid.
[00:24:11]  Yeah.
[00:24:11]  How can you be like, why have a kid if you're black pill?
[00:24:14]  You're about to have a miracle and joy.
[00:24:16]  It's like, we're all doomed.
[00:24:18]  I might as well just throw her in the garbage or him.
[00:24:19]  It's just, I mean, I have a two and a half year old and another kid on the way.
[00:24:24]  Like two and a half, if you've spent any time around a two and a half year old, it is like you have to try to catch your breath from how much cuteness there is.
[00:24:32]  Like it's just, there's just moments of perfection every two seconds.
[00:24:37]  Like it's just, it's just beautiful.
[00:24:40]  So, and yeah, if you have kids, then you just don't have an option.
[00:24:43]  But I was telling, I was saying on Pete's show, I was talking about Mises's story.
[00:24:47]  And I was like, here's a guy who literally fought in World War I combat.
[00:24:52]  So the most brutal combat, like an intellectual, you know what I mean?
[00:24:56]  Like fighting in World War I, then comes out of World War I and makes these like incredible contributions to economic thought.
[00:25:04]  I mean, literally disproves socialism, like on an on an intellectual level.
[00:25:11]  Then sees socialism sweep through Eastern Europe and the Nazis rise up and run him out of Austria and like burn his library.
[00:25:19]  He has to flee to America.
[00:25:21]  He doesn't speak the language well.
[00:25:22]  Like he couldn't get a job over here because they were so hostile to free market Austrian economists.
[00:25:27]  Finally, he got a job because like some free market financiers, you know, funded like a position for him.
[00:25:32]  And like, he wrote human action.
[00:25:35]  Like he just kept kept like trudging along and putting out work.
[00:25:40]  So same, oh, you're black pilled because like there were lockdowns for the last, like, I'm not even downplaying the lockdowns, but like, don't give me any of this shit.
[00:25:49]  You know what people throughout history have been through and kept moving forward to give the next generation like don't spoil the book.
[00:25:56]  You're spoiling the like center part of the book.
[00:25:59]  Okay, I'm sorry.
[00:25:59]  But you know, but the other thing is, you know, I'm never going to be a Mises.
[00:26:03]  I'm never going to be a random, I'm never going to be a Rothbard and that's fine.
[00:26:06]  But one thing I can do that they can't is I can because of them and people like them and the people who like, you know, all the people we know and don't know who did fight the East Germans quietly.
[00:26:18]  Like I'm reading this book about how all these college kids, because the government, the West German government didn't really want to upset the East German government because it was this weird kind of, you know, power dynamic.
[00:26:27]  And they're like, yeah, cool, cool.
[00:26:28]  We're going to do what we want.
[00:26:29]  We're going to free these people.
[00:26:30]  So they would like dig these tunnels through the sewers and have just families going through.
[00:26:34]  They have to like walk on the coming out covered in shit, but they're like, fuck yeah, we're free.
[00:26:38]  So like little moments like this, like, yeah, or it's very much like Harriet Tubman in many ways.
[00:26:44]  It's like, okay, you guys have your policy in Washington.
[00:26:46]  You guys are going to argue.
[00:26:47]  While you're doing that, I'm going to say, go fuck yourself.
[00:26:50]  And I'm going to free these people.
[00:26:51]  I'm going to get my gun.
[00:26:52]  So what I am enjoying is I'm seeing the rewards of my labor in real time.
[00:26:59]  The fact that that book came out in May and was the top book on Amazon.
[00:27:02]  This is receipts that this is something that could actually happen.
[00:27:07]  And that's something I'm very excited to demonstrate to people because I think a lot of black pill people, not all of them, but a lot of them, deep down, and this is not very profound, really do want to have an alternative.
[00:27:19]  Like it's, it's like being someone who's like 500 pounds.
[00:27:21]  It takes a lot of work to stay in that state because you have to constantly keep feeding it.
[00:27:25]  And as soon as there's data to the contrary, that little bit of light, you have to be like, no, no, no, it doesn't matter.
[00:27:31]  This is a trick.
[00:27:31]  And it's hard to maintain that state.

=== Porn Star Conservative Values (14:53) ===

[00:27:34]  So the more relentless you are of showing the evidence to the contrary, it's going to be marginal.
[00:27:40]  The more people are going to be like, oh, okay, let's try it.
[00:27:43]  And it's a lot more fun on this side.
[00:27:46]  Yeah, I agree with you.
[00:27:47]  And I've seen a decent amount of people, a lot of like right-wing libertarian types who have said, and then I guess like not libertarians, but kind of in the maybe in the neo-reactionary space or something like that. who have basically said they're like, look, like the, you know, the H.L. Mencken quote that most people don't want liberty.
[00:28:10]  They want security, which certainly there's a lot of truth to.
[00:28:13]  I'm not denying that.
[00:28:14]  But they go, look, they're like, people don't want liberty.
[00:28:17]  So there's no point in even trying to sell it to them.
[00:28:20]  And you're like, well, okay.
[00:28:21]  I mean, look, there are a percentage of people who don't want liberty.
[00:28:26]  There are a percentage of people who get really excited when they hear these ideas about liberty.
[00:28:30]  None of us know exactly what those numbers are.
[00:28:33]  But what I do know.
[00:28:34]  It's more than one.
[00:28:36]  Yeah.
[00:28:36]  And I know that, look, every time I go on Rogan, every time I go on Tim Pool, every time you go on Rogan or Tim Poole or Lex Friedman or any of the other really big platforms, the response is like overwhelmingly positive.
[00:28:48]  And you're getting up in front of like this huge audience, putting your ideas out there.
[00:28:53]  And a ton of them, like a very not insignificant number of people are really interested in these ideas.
[00:29:00]  So what are we going to like not try to introduce these ideas to as many people as we can or get people excited about it?
[00:29:08]  I mean, like, if you, if you look at this, like, how could you, after seeing the reception that the anarchist handbook got, not go, well, there's some potential there.
[00:29:17]  Yeah.
[00:29:18]  I mean, there's like, there's some real potential if a book about anarchy, not like you're not talking about a book that has some anarchist undertones.
[00:29:25]  I'm saying a book about anarchy is the number one book.
[00:29:30]  How do you not look at that and go like, yeah, let's explore that a little bit?
[00:29:34]  And something just clicked with what you just said, which is this.
[00:29:38]  A lot of people are going to hear the ideas and think this is crap.
[00:29:42]  But what they're also going to realize is speaks to Chomsky's point about the best way to control a population.
[00:29:48]  I don't have the exact quote in front of me, is to have strictly limited debate, but encourage very lively debate within those parameters, right?
[00:29:56]  What Tom Woods calls the index card of allowable opinion.
[00:29:59]  And so a lot of people who are intellectuals who are into philosophy, I mean, like amateur intellectuals, not academics.
[00:30:05]  And for them to sit down and realize, wait a minute, there's this whole school of thought, which, okay, it's bullshit.
[00:30:11]  I don't believe any of it, but I was never told about any of this.
[00:30:15]  That is a big red pill because they're realizing, wait a minute, there's an entire ideology with a long and rich history.
[00:30:21]  And all the sources I look at pretend it doesn't exist.
[00:30:24]  And here's the receipts that it did exist.
[00:30:26]  What else am I being kind of restrained from learning about?
[00:30:31]  And this ties into the speech, which I encourage everyone to read, watch from Devil Ris Prada, where Miranda Priestley, Meryl Streep, is just dressing down Ann Hathaway.
[00:30:40]  And the point being like, yeah, you're wearing this blue sweater because the people in this room were promoting Oscar DeLorente, who had blue navy jackets five years ago.
[00:30:49]  Then it trickled down to this, then trickled down to that.
[00:30:51]  Then Trivia Mall, where you fished out of the discount bin and you think you're making a choice, but that choice has been made for you by the people in this room.
[00:30:59]  And when you realize this is how politics works and media works as well, that the people in this whatever room are the ones deciding, all right, what's going to be, what's not going to be, what we're allowed to talk about, what we're not going to talk about, that is almost literally the definition of the red pill.
[00:31:13]  Right.
[00:31:14]  And there are things, particularly with that, that Chomsky quote, whatever, I don't remember the exact wording either, but it was like a very narrow window and you have fierce debate within this very narrow window, which is it's once you kind of see things that way, even if, you know, we're us anarchists are saying, yeah, instead of being in this little window, we're all the way over here, way outside it.
[00:31:33]  If you don't agree with our point outside of it, once you see that, it's very hard to unsee.
[00:31:38]  I remember reading that Chomsky quote, it was probably around 2008 that I read it.
[00:31:45]  And as I'm reading this, I'm looking, there's this presidential campaign, and the big debate that they were having was over the Bush tax cuts.
[00:31:54]  And Obama wanted the tax, the top marginal income rate to be 39%, and McCain wanted it at 35%.
[00:32:02]  And they had a fierce debate about whether the rich should pay their fair share and how evil it was to have 35% and how reasonable 39%.
[00:32:13]  And you just look at this and you're like, wow, this is such a constraint.
[00:32:17]  And just in this last one, I mean, you know, Biden and Trump were arguing over $1,600 checks first $2,000 checks going out to people.
[00:32:25]  I mean, this is so limited.
[00:32:27]  And it's hard once you see that to not realize that, like, yeah, no, you're not actually having in a true intellectual debate.
[00:32:36]  What you're having is that we agree on all of the same premises.
[00:32:40]  You know, we agree on all of the fundamentals of this system.
[00:32:43]  And now we disagree whether we should turn this notch from, you know, 10 to 10.1 or 9.9.
[00:32:50]  All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is yokratom.com, one of the biggest sponsors of our brand of comedy, a huge supporter of the network.
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[00:33:47]  All right, let's get back into the show.
[00:33:48]  One of my first red pill moments, a big one, was in 96.
[00:33:53]  There was debate between Clinton and Dole.
[00:33:55]  Clinton was running for election.
[00:33:56]  Bob Dole is the Republican candidate.
[00:33:58]  And Bob and Bob Dole said, Bill Clinton wants the government to grow at 17%.
[00:34:05]  I want it to grow at 13%.
[00:34:07]  And my jaws just dropped.
[00:34:08]  And I'm like, this, you know, I thought I was a Republican back then.
[00:34:11]  I'm like, what am I fighting for here?
[00:34:13]  Like, shouldn't the argument be, I want to shrink the government?
[00:34:17]  I'm for small government.
[00:34:18]  Can't you, you can't even bring yourself to say, I want to return to Jimmy Carter.
[00:34:23]  Like that to you would be completely beyond the pale and insane.
[00:34:27]  Or Jimmy Carter per capita increased because the population growth.
[00:34:31]  So I, and I remember I was, I was like a Cato intern the next year, and I was working for Doug Bondo, who is still, I think, a pundit.
[00:34:39]  And I was just talking about how insane this moment was.
[00:34:41]  And his response, which is probably true, was like that this was Dole's attempt to show that he's not a radical.
[00:34:47]  And that's fine.
[00:34:48]  But the point is, you can't one day say that Clinton and the Democrats are destroying this country.
[00:34:54]  These budgets are unsustainable, but we're still going to grow them at a higher rate than GDP's growing, which is it.
[00:35:02]  Well, and also when you were saying, you know, if you were like a Reagan Republican who in 1980 was saying the debt's out of control, the spending's out of control, all of this, now that it's way, way, way more out of control, you can't even say we should return to the 1980 levels, which I thought was out of control.
[00:35:22]  Like you can't even say, you have to go, we have to continue to increase from this point.
[00:35:28]  It's just so absurd.
[00:35:30]  And I think you, you know, the realization there is like, well, then this is a game that we can never win.
[00:35:36]  If this is the way you're playing, it's just, it's just when do we lose and how quickly and how badly.
[00:35:41]  Barry Goldwater, who is based as hell, released, everyone can look this up.
[00:35:46]  I feel like Alex Jones.
[00:35:47]  He released a book in the 70s called The Coming Breakpoint.
[00:35:51]  And the point is, we are spending too much.
[00:35:54]  And at a certain point, we're going to collapse because we can't sustain these levels of spending.
[00:35:59]  And this is something Republicans use a lot because this is kind of their backdoor excuse to cut spending.
[00:36:04]  They don't want to see these programs suck or hurting people, but like, we can't afford it.
[00:36:07]  So let's cut.
[00:36:08]  It never works, right?
[00:36:09]  But the point is, if you say to someone, you know, the federal deficit, the federal debt is 20 trillion and they're like, oh, we can't sustain that.
[00:36:17]  It's like that number means nothing to you.
[00:36:19]  We don't 1 trillion, 20 trillion, 500 trillion.
[00:36:22]  How are you determining the number that is not sustainable?
[00:36:25]  And everyone's like, well, 20 trillion is a lot.
[00:36:27]  What?
[00:36:27]  1 trillion is not a lot.
[00:36:28]  500 trillion is not a lot.
[00:36:30]  These numbers are meaningless in terms of you're just being told this is too much and less is better.
[00:36:35]  How about eliminating the debt?
[00:36:36]  Like that, that's, that would be my argument.
[00:36:37]  Then you know you're not going to have to collapse.
[00:36:39]  Right, right.
[00:36:40]  And at least plant your flag there.
[00:36:42]  Yeah.
[00:36:42]  And then maybe you can, you know, get something going.
[00:36:44]  Did you see, and I was, I admit, I do not know the details of this, but it was making me, and this is just reminding me now.
[00:36:51]  I didn't even plan on talking about this, but because it reminded me of your whole, you know, conservatives driving the speed limit, you know, take, which is really one of your like best lines and one of your most like enduring lines.
[00:37:05]  Like everyone quotes that.
[00:37:06]  I see it.
[00:37:07]  I see that quoted more than like any other thing.
[00:37:10]  Can I tell you something?
[00:37:11]  If you go search through my Twitter, there were like 10 drafts that I worked through.
[00:37:17]  There's an early one I remember where I said conservatism is progressivism with an old lady at the wheel, which also is kind of funny.
[00:37:23]  And so it took me a few iterations to get it and then it stuck.
[00:37:27]  And now a lot of times people mangle it.
[00:37:31]  They'll say like, like Washington conservatives are really just progressives driving slow.
[00:37:36]  It's like, and then I've had people quote it to me as if they had thought of it with no shame at all.
[00:37:42]  And they're like, anyone could have thought of this.
[00:37:43]  Like, yeah.
[00:37:44]  So think of your own quote.
[00:37:45]  So have everyone saying it.
[00:37:46]  Yeah.
[00:37:47]  It's like, it's a lot easier to be like, well, anyone could have invented a plane, not that I'm the Wright brothers.
[00:37:51]  There's a documented psychological tendency.
[00:37:57]  I can't remember the name of it, but that is like there's a term in psychology for it.
[00:38:01]  After someone is given information, they're much more likely to believe that they would have come to this conclusion on their own.
[00:38:08]  Yeah, I'd have to look it up, but there is a term in psychology for that.
[00:38:11]  Wow.
[00:38:12]  That even though even if people wouldn't have come up with it after given the information, it's very easy to be like, oh, yeah, that's obvious, which by the way, is kind of the goal of thinkers.
[00:38:22]  Like you're in the same way that the goal of comedians, you know, when you hear like a really great joke, like a perfect joke, the reaction so much after laughing is like, oh, that's so true.
[00:38:31]  Or I always thought that.
[00:38:32]  It's like, yeah, that's the point that I'm putting something that we all kind of think, but don't articulate right into your like mind.
[00:38:39]  Anyway, the thing I was going to bring up was, I don't know if you saw this, but there was like some porn star conservative who got kicked out of, I think, Turning Point USA.
[00:38:51]  And now I, so I've seen a whole bunch of libertarians arguing with them.
[00:38:55]  I haven't really commented on it much, but the libertarians are arguing, you know, kind of like, well, why don't you come over to libertarians where we don't judge you, you know, for this type of stuff and all this.
[00:39:05]  And I will say, I'm not like, I'm not a fan of Turning Point USA.
[00:39:08]  And I'm a libertarian.
[00:39:09]  I'm not a conservative, but you are a fan.
[00:39:12]  You're basically Turning Point USA made into a human being.
[00:39:15]  That's right.
[00:39:17]  Turning point USA, we're a person.
[00:39:21]  Well, but I'll tell you, I kind of get where the conservatives are coming from.
[00:39:27]  Sure.
[00:39:28]  And I kind of, I understand where it's almost like a little bit of resistance to constantly being what you're describing them as, where they're like, look, if we're saying our group is about being socially conservative.
[00:39:40]  Now, of course, I don't support enforcing any of this through the state.
[00:39:44]  That's what we're against.
[00:39:45]  But if you have a group and you're like, our group is about embodying socially conservative values and you've got like a porn star representing it, I'd understand where some people would be like, no, like that's not really what we want to be about.
[00:39:59]  And so I don't know.
[00:40:00]  I just, I thought that was interesting.
[00:40:02]  And it made me think of your quote and maybe a little attempt for them to not be that.
[00:40:10]  I don't think it's an example of my quote because I don't think pornography and progressivism are at all a Venn diagram.
[00:40:17]  Progressives historically have been very socially conservative because their idea is we have to engineer a culture, build a better race.
[00:40:25]  And they really have been very skeptical of things that give you pleasure.
[00:40:30]  The Rockefeller laws in New York state, which I think had been somewhat recently repealed by Nelson Rockefeller, was a very, we was known.
[00:40:38]  He was, they called the Rockefeller Republicans.
[00:40:40]  These are the progressive, like Northeast Republicans.
[00:40:42]  And they're, you know, things like prohibition was a progressive idea.
[00:40:46]  Warren Harding's getting drunk at the White House.
[00:40:48]  He doesn't care, but it's this kind of Woodrow Wilson, we have to save the soul.
[00:40:52]  So a big problem, and I've mentioned this many times, and I know you obviously agree, is Americans, thanks to our government schooling system and the corporate press, have this idea that conservative, Republican, and right-wing are all synonymous and can be used interchangeably.
[00:41:06]  So when you have someone who's like a Woodrow Wilson, who's clearly a Democrat, who's clearly a progressive, but also has views that in any context nowadays we've described as social conservative, people don't know what to do with that.
[00:41:16]  And it's kind of like a bathtub and a toaster.
[00:41:19]  So same thing with drag, something I obviously talk a lot about is people think that that's progressive.
[00:41:24]  It's like this stuff started because the progressives put these people in the gutter.
[00:41:28]  And only after it becomes popular in a corporate level, like through RuPaul's drag race, they're like, oh, we've been for this all the time.
[00:41:34]  No, this was a reaction toward you and your hypocrisy.
[00:41:36]  But I agree with your broader point that conservatism, one of the reasons I say there's nothing about me that's conservative.
[00:41:43]  What do you stand for other than reacting to whoever the stupidest, latest progressive thing is?
[00:41:48]  And if you are for socially conservative values, and the other flip side is, I don't know this woman, more power to her.
[00:41:54]  You know, I have no issue with, I do have some issues with pornography, but you want to be a porn star, whatever.
[00:41:59]  Why is she there to begin with?
[00:42:01]  I think is the question is like, okay, I'm a porn star who has conservative values.
[00:42:04]  What are you saying that is, I don't know her background, I don't know her platform.
[00:42:08]  What are you saying that makes you special, unique, or worth hearing?
[00:42:12]  So it's kind of an interesting situation.
[00:42:16]  And it's also interesting that this is where they're drawing the line because I talk about this in the new right.
[00:42:21]  Like, you know, for a long time, it's against gay marriage, against gay marriage, against gay marriage.
[00:42:26]  And I was like, gay marriage has always been a conservative principle.

=== Gay Marriage Claims (04:05) ===

[00:42:28]  We just didn't realize it yet.
[00:42:29]  It's like, well, stick to your guns.
[00:42:31]  If you want to say that being gay is wrong and against conservative values, draw the line there.
[00:42:37]  Or you're by definition not a conservative.
[00:42:40]  I mean, which is also okay.
[00:42:42]  Like as someone who's not a conservative, but I remember thinking this too, when they would say when the conservatives would, you know, like kind of the more establishment conservative types would really be, you know, going after the more dissident, you know, new right types.
[00:42:59]  And they would be like, oh, well, you're all a bunch of racists and you all have these ideas.
[00:43:03]  Like, you know, they would define you being a white nationalist as people, not like the really far out alt-right ones who were straight up white nationalists, but like the ones who would say, we think the country should be majority white, you know, like we should maintain a majority white guy.
[00:43:18]  And they'd be like, well, you're a horrible racist and that's not what conservatism is about.
[00:43:21]  It's like, okay, fine, but every one of your conservative heroes throughout history would have agreed with that statement.
[00:43:30]  So, you know, you're saying they're not the real conservatives, but again, I don't know.
[00:43:35]  I mean, if you go back three generations, that was just the common belief amongst all the conservative leaders.
[00:43:41]  So again, I'm not a conservative, but I'm just saying it's weird for you, Ben Shapiro, to claim that like you're the real conservative and constantly be invoking the founders and then be like, but you're an evil, awful person if you want to maintain that.
[00:43:55]  And there's just lots of things like that.
[00:43:56]  Gay marriage is another more recent good example of that.
[00:43:59]  The founding fathers were all racist, right?
[00:44:01]  So the claim is like, well, if they knew better, they wouldn't be racist.
[00:44:04]  Like, how do you know that?
[00:44:05]  Like, they're politicians and men who are in power.
[00:44:08]  So they're not magic.
[00:44:09]  So I'm sure a lot of them, no question, if they were in 2021, be very, very anti-racist.
[00:44:15]  And some of them probably be very racist and keep their mouths shut because it would cost them consequences.
[00:44:21]  But to first of all, this conservative idea, this drives me crazy, that the founding fathers were a hive mind and they were all in agreement is so deranged and something no one who's even a poor historian thinks for one second.
[00:44:37]  Those debates in Philadelphia were very fierce.
[00:44:39]  Jefferson and Hamilton despised each other and genuinely thought the other was a threat to this country.
[00:44:45]  And their definition of this of the word this country was completely different from one another.
[00:44:49]  So this claim that they're basically just, you know, classical liberals who are just holding hands and have the same vision is nonsense.
[00:44:56]  And it's, it's really, you know, they complain about the 1619 project, but the 1789 project is really ahistorical as well.
[00:45:04]  Yeah.
[00:45:05]  Oh, God.
[00:45:06]  I got to tweet that out.
[00:45:07]  Oh, there you go.
[00:45:08]  That's a good one.
[00:45:09]  I always like when you come up with a yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
[00:45:12]  That is a very good one.
[00:45:14]  Yeah, it's, you know, I've noticed the same kind of thing where, you know, the more kind of like the left-leaning a little bit.
[00:45:23]  The more left-leaning libertarians who kind of like really criticize the paleo libertarians and they'll be like, oh, this is awful.
[00:45:31]  All this like kind of Lou Rockwell and the Murray Rothbard, late Murray Rothbard, these paleo-libertarians are terrible and we prefer the tradition of classical liberals.
[00:45:40]  And you're like, yeah, but what were those classical liberals other than paleo-libertarians, really?
[00:45:45]  I mean, if you looked at their cultural preferences of the day, none of them believed in like the stuff that has really only become popularized in the last 20 years.
[00:45:56]  It's like none of them were out there fighting about gay marriage or LGBT rights or whatever.
[00:46:00]  They would have because they're good people and I'm a good person.
[00:46:04]  So they would have agreed with me.
[00:46:05]  It's just like how people sit down and tell you, there's that meme about that kid being like, oh, according to Jesus, like you should let an immigrants.
[00:46:12]  Now, I don't believe in your stupid Bible and have contempt for your views, but if I invoke it, maybe you'll do what I want, right?
[00:46:18]  Like that's the argument.
[00:46:19]  So it's like, well, it's amazing how every historical figure you like has the identical political views that you do.
[00:46:24]  It's not really convenient.
[00:46:25]  But it is, it is at its most convenient and it's most absurd when the label that you embody is conservative.

=== Blue Chew Prescription Service (03:12) ===

[00:46:33]  Yeah.
[00:46:34]  When you're claiming that you're trying to conserve these views, but also they would feel exactly how I feel with my modern sensibilities.
[00:46:42]  It's like, okay, but then I just don't really think the term for that should be conservative.
[00:46:48]  The one thing I'm concerned about with the white pill is that spoiler alert, like Reagan and Thatcher are real big heroes in it.
[00:46:57]  And I know that there's going to be, it's going to be the most boomer con book I'll ever write, inshallah.
[00:47:02]  But I'm just scared at the reaction from people who are just really just, you know, God bless them.
[00:47:09]  But if you start arguing with these boomer cons on Twitter, it is much worse than arguing with progressives.
[00:47:15]  Like if you get into Candace Owens' mentions, they will just repeat at you, oh, you're racist.
[00:47:20]  You're scared of a strong black woman.
[00:47:22]  And no matter what you say, they literally just keep repeating it.
[00:47:25]  So at least like a progressive will engage, will like react to what you're saying and be like, you're wrong here.
[00:47:30]  This is why you're wrong here.
[00:47:31]  But they just repeat the same thing over and over.
[00:47:33]  And I'm like, you are, I can see why many Democrats think that this whole scene is full of people who are basically Terry Shaivo level in terms of brain activity.
[00:47:44]  Yeah.
[00:47:45]  And also they're just kind of everything that all boomer cons.
[00:47:49]  There are no exceptions.
[00:47:51]  So the person listening to this who thinks I don't talk about you, who's a Dave Smith fan, I specifically mean you.
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=== Normalizing Libertarian Positions (10:37) ===

[00:49:46]  Well, I don't know.
[00:49:47]  Do you know who Eric Erickson is?
[00:49:49]  Oh, yeah.
[00:49:49]  Do you know him?
[00:49:50]  All right.
[00:49:50]  So he tweeted out.
[00:49:52]  I don't think he's a boomer con.
[00:49:53]  I don't know.
[00:49:53]  Oh, I think he, isn't he the king of the boomer cons?
[00:49:55]  He's maybe the boomer con.
[00:49:56]  I don't know.
[00:49:57]  I don't know his deal, but I thought this was interesting.
[00:49:59]  This kind of.
[00:50:00]  Oh, God.
[00:50:00]  Oh, no, no.
[00:50:01]  I got to interrupt you.
[00:50:01]  I'm sorry.
[00:50:02]  Eric Erickson.
[00:50:03]  Oh, my God.
[00:50:05]  Don't fact check me on this, but I'm 99% sure.
[00:50:08]  He was making the point that, oh, in nature, all animals are patriarchal.
[00:50:13]  So it's just natural if the man runs the house.
[00:50:15]  It's like beehives, ants.
[00:50:18]  There are infinite among nature has like literally millions of species and you have every form of possible organization.
[00:50:26]  And to like elephants, it's a matrix.
[00:50:29]  The males are solo.
[00:50:30]  It's a matriarchal society.
[00:50:32]  Like there's so many counterexamples.
[00:50:34]  And the idea that like all nature or even all mammals are going to follow one system and that therefore that's the system we as humans should apply in suburbia is so demented.
[00:50:46]  I don't even know where to begin correctly.
[00:50:48]  So not only is it yes, not only is it not true that this is what we find in nature, but also, also the idea, the implication that whatever we find in nature should be the way human beings in a modern society interact with each other is just completely benevolent.
[00:51:06]  Elephants wake up and eat their own shit.
[00:51:08]  You want to do that?
[00:51:09]  Go ahead, Eric.
[00:51:10]  More power to you.
[00:51:10]  Yeah.
[00:51:11]  Well, you also, you don't find paperwork in nature.
[00:51:13]  So I don't really think we should ever write things down.
[00:51:16]  Wasps make their own hides out of paper.
[00:51:19]  Oh, okay.
[00:51:19]  There you go.
[00:51:20]  Yeah, you do.
[00:51:20]  Paperworks back in.
[00:51:21]  And that's a matriarchy.
[00:51:22]  Yeah.
[00:51:23]  Well, you know, you don't find laptops in nature, so we really shouldn't be talking to her.
[00:51:27]  Well, he said this, which I just, it was just kind of a moment to me where I'm like, I almost don't realize like perhaps this represents a failure in the libertarian movement as well.
[00:51:38]  Like I'm not just completely putting this on him, but he commented.
[00:51:41]  This is the only comment I made about the situation.
[00:51:44]  So he tweeted, a conservatism that normalizes porn is libertarianism.
[00:51:50]  I'm not a libertarian.
[00:51:52]  I don't think conservatism should normalize pornography.
[00:51:55]  Okay, that's valid.
[00:51:56]  And then he tweeted a couple tweets later, because someone asked him, you know, so do you think porn should be illegal?
[00:52:03]  And he said, I don't think it should be illegal.
[00:52:05]  I just don't think it should be normalized.
[00:52:08]  Okay.
[00:52:08]  And I thought there's something interesting about that.
[00:52:10]  And I just tweeted back to him and I said, well, that is the libertarian position.
[00:52:15]  Just so you know, like if you think it's, it shouldn't be, there's only one.
[00:52:22]  So this thing where you go, oh, no, that belongs over here in the libertarian world.
[00:52:25]  I mean, I think it should be legal, but I have X and Y feelings about it.
[00:52:28]  You're like, perhaps that represents a failure of the libertarian movement that people still have such a like, you know, warped view of what libertarianism is.
[00:52:37]  But libertarian, like has the term normalization never means anything to what the libertarian position on something is.
[00:52:45]  Legalization is all that means anything.
[00:52:48]  So you, of course, are free to have whatever feelings you want to have about pornography.
[00:52:54]  And in fact, I think it's, I think it's silly to think that you would have a black or white position on pornography.
[00:53:01]  Like as if it would just be like, well, pornography is good.
[00:53:04]  It's always good.
[00:53:05]  Like, what?
[00:53:06]  I don't know.
[00:53:07]  Like, is this a person who suffered from abuse in their past who's like recreating abusive patterns?
[00:53:12]  That certainly doesn't seem good to me.
[00:53:13]  Like, are kids able to get access to it?
[00:53:16]  Yeah, Wendy Mac, the thing that we can, I think you and I can agree with most people is that there are possible good things that come out of pornography.
[00:53:22]  Wendy McElroy talked about this, that it's a good way for married couples to keep their sex life going.
[00:53:27]  It'll give people ideas, so on and so forth.
[00:53:29]  The other hand is like, it's also giving people bad ideas because the more extreme the images you consume, the more you expect people to perform a certain way in the bedroom and those images, just like it's like blue pilling, right?
[00:53:39]  You're telling young men who are obviously the overwhelming consumers of pornography that this is what you should expect in the bedroom.
[00:53:45]  Just like if you watch, you know, some movie about Hollywood or about the publishing industry, you think that's how publishing works.
[00:53:51]  And the girl shows up and it's like, why aren't you like vomiting on my junk?
[00:53:54]  And it's like, this is normal.
[00:53:56]  This is 90% of the pornography.
[00:53:58]  And then stuff like incest porn becoming a thing.
[00:54:00]  Is it a thing because it's taboo?
[00:54:02]  And then if you keep watching the taboo, does that taboo go away?
[00:54:05]  I'm not a big consumer of pornography.
[00:54:08]  And I think I am kind of in Plato's cave because my understanding is I hear this from a lot of young dudes that this is really a big deal for them.
[00:54:16]  And they just watch a lot of them.
[00:54:18]  A lot of it.
[00:54:19]  And it messes up their views on sexuality and their views on relationship.
[00:54:23]  And it takes up a lot of their time and it makes them blind.
[00:54:26]  Yeah.
[00:54:27]  So I don't know that I'm really in a good position to opine on this because I think it's such a thing that's laden with emotion that we're not having honest conversations about the subject.
[00:54:36]  And just one important point, historically, pornography laws were used to fight people's access to birth control information.
[00:54:44]  Because if you were telling people, people don't realize this.
[00:54:46]  Like in the late 1800s, it wasn't always known where kids came from.
[00:54:50]  You're illiterate.
[00:54:50]  You're being raised by your uncle or something.
[00:54:52]  There's like 13 kids.
[00:54:54]  It's not at all intuitive that a man and woman sleep together and then nine months later, a baby comes out.
[00:54:59]  We think it's intuitive because it's something we just take for granted nowadays, just like the seasons or whatever.
[00:55:03]  And this was people put to prison for explaining this to people.
[00:55:07]  Doctors couldn't teach people about birth control, their own patients, or they'd lose their license.
[00:55:10]  And they had undercover cops who tried to sting doctors to get them to explain birth control.
[00:55:16]  Is what Margaret Sang was fighting against, which the Boomer Cons won't talk about and the progressives don't want to talk about.
[00:55:21]  Um, so it's a.
[00:55:22]  It's such a complicated issue because when you're trying to ban and this is that was, but then there was the workaround, because then you would have, okay, this book is sex education, but it's just porn.
[00:55:31]  Uh, you know.
[00:55:32]  So the thing is, it's so tricky of a subject, but I I agree with you.
[00:55:38]  His point is, I I don't think conservatism as a whole is a very coherent ideology, and social conservatism, if it can be reduced to anything, is to be suspicious of pleasure, which I would agree with broadly speaking, but in terms of it being uh um, you know, it could be very easily taken to a very bad place.
[00:55:58]  Yeah well, but I, I would also say right.
[00:56:00]  So I agree with you that conservatives, conservatism in general, is incoherent and contradictory just all over the place.
[00:56:09]  But then I also the other.
[00:56:10]  My other takeaway from that is that you almost have to.
[00:56:13]  If people are confusing libertarianism with libertines or libertinism at this point, still we uh have to take a little bit of the rap for that.
[00:56:23]  Like it can't be, you know what I mean.
[00:56:25]  Like you can't just blame everyone else for people that and so that that was almost what I you know also what I was kind of like trying to like look the libertarian movement in the mirror a little bit and be like man.
[00:56:35]  It really is a problem that we, we can't.
[00:56:39]  You know like there's enough high profile libertarians and enough you know access to, to platforms that it's like.
[00:56:46]  If you can't understand that, it's like it should be so obvious that the libertarian position is that you can have any feeling you want to about pornography, and I tend to agree with more or less what you were saying.
[00:56:58]  I think it's kind of complicated.
[00:56:59]  As long as there's no race mixing yes yes, that is the libertarian position.
[00:57:04]  Yes, just start getting all crazy on me now.
[00:57:08]  This is pornography.
[00:57:09]  It's not an abomination against nature and you can make it as weird as you want to.
[00:57:13]  As long as you're the same race and religion, you do whatever you want to, wild stuff and don't get crazy.
[00:57:18]  And same gender that's the same has to be gay.
[00:57:22]  We're talking libertarians here.
[00:57:24]  This is only.
[00:57:24]  I thought that was a given.
[00:57:26]  It didn't need to be explained uh, by the gold speech.
[00:57:29]  People read a book.
[00:57:33]  I, Tom Woods, got in a big argument with some of these dummy woke libertarians about this a few years ago, where he was just like they were talking about normalizing sex work and like Tom was like yeah no, i'm not really for normalizing sex work.
[00:57:47]  Like I, I don't think that's like you know, is Tom's like a Christian with five daughters who's kind of like yeah no, that's not really what i'm, i'm not like here to normalize they go.
[00:57:57]  Yeah, but I agree we shouldn't have government laws against it because that's going to create a black market and people are going to be in more danger and all these problems and like that's fine, but I, I like i'm not being the right wing mirror image of that.
[00:58:09]  I'm not saying you have to be against normalizing so like you can have that position and be a libertarian.
[00:58:14]  The only libertarian question is, do you believe there should be laws against a voluntary, you know like consenting relationship, and?
[00:58:23]  And if you do, you're not a libertarian.
[00:58:24]  But if, if not, then you are.
[00:58:26]  And it's also funny because this just Shows the incoherence of conservatism, which is they will, you know, a few years ago, like marijuana legalization, slippery slope.
[00:58:34]  Next thing you're going to be a crackhead, a heroin addict.
[00:58:37]  And then, as it's become, it has become normalized marijuana use and legalized in many states.
[00:58:41]  And it's just a matter of time before it's going to be legal everywhere.
[00:58:43]  It's still illegal federally.
[00:58:45]  And all marijuana use is still in violation of federal law.
[00:58:48]  All these dispensaries are breaking the law.
[00:58:50]  But at the same time, yeah, there are people for whom it's a slippery slope, and there are people who use, you know, hard drugs recreationally, but there's also some people who it ruins their life.
[00:59:01]  And again, we're not a one-size-fits-all ideology.
[00:59:04]  And just because if you, Dave, have some genetics or your family or your background, where if you started dabbling in heroin, you're going to be an addict within a week.
[00:59:12]  That, and that's terrible.
[00:59:13]  And I would feel bad for you.
[00:59:15]  And I would want to have mechanisms in place for you if you fell or to prevent you, but that has no reflection on me whatsoever.
[00:59:21]  And that's kind of the individualist philosophy.
[00:59:23]  It's like, yeah, it really sucks that there's people who are alcoholics.
[00:59:27]  They ruin lives.
[00:59:27]  They beat their families.
[00:59:29]  They get into car crashes.
[00:59:30]  That has absolutely nothing to do with my capacity or ability to get a beer or to get grain alcohol.
[00:59:37]  No, absolutely.
[00:59:38]  No, look, I mean, I do.
[00:59:40]  Yeah, I completely agree with you.
[00:59:41]  And I get frustrated at the libertine libertarian type sometimes because they do, I think, try to make it a one-size-fits-all in the opposite direction, where it's like, oh, yeah, smoking pot is great or all of this.
[00:59:53]  And I'll tell you, look, I smoked a lot of pot as a teenager.
[00:59:57]  And, you know, I don't think it was great for me.
[01:00:01]  It's like, I just don't, I think there were, I had a lot of issues with my childhood and my father and all this stuff.
[01:00:05]  And I think I was, you know, it was escapism to some degree.
[01:00:08]  And that's not a great way to deal with your problems.
[01:00:10]  It's not a great thing to establish as a teenager that this is how you'll kind of deal with this stuff.
[01:00:16]  And if I could speak to my younger self, I'd probably be like, yeah, you need to cut that out and like face some of these things.
[01:00:22]  That does mean you're self-medicating.

=== White Supremacist Domination (04:45) ===

[01:00:24]  Yes, that's right.
[01:00:25]  Now, that does not mean that I would want teenage me thrown in jail for it.
[01:00:31]  Or that your life has been ruined.
[01:00:33]  Yes.
[01:00:33]  It was really bad, but you still got out of it.
[01:00:36]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:00:36]  That's exactly right.
[01:00:37]  And so all of these things are, I think, that they are complicated.
[01:00:40]  But anyway, I just, yeah, I did not plan on talking about this with you.
[01:00:43]  I had one more, just one more thing.
[01:00:45]  Sorry, like, I also, it really does bother me.
[01:00:47]  And this is where the Democrats get it right that a lot of these people who have these conservative proclamations about sexuality behind closed doors are true freaks and they're uncomfortable with that.
[01:00:57]  And that really has happened case after case, even if it's 10% of the people who are saying this.
[01:01:01]  And that really, the other thing that is the flip side of this is if there are people who are kind of have weird sexuality or weird drug use habits, like, do you really want them to be marginalized and not able to discuss the situation they're in, as opposed to feeling comfortable talking to their friend?
[01:01:18]  And then maybe that friend or a professional or whatever will push them in a better direction.
[01:01:22]  Yeah, listen, to look at these things like on more of an individual psychological level, which is kind of what you are, you should always be skeptical about the morality police.
[01:01:35]  No matter where they're coming from, oftentimes that is a cover for other things.
[01:01:41]  And this is true, whether it's the moral, you know, kind of conservative stuff or it's the woke stuff coming from the more the left wing.
[01:01:49]  I mean, this stuff is quite often, you know, it's oftentimes, and you'll notice this just in life, right?
[01:01:55]  Like so many times, like the woke people are being the shittiest human beings.
[01:02:00]  They're just being shitty people.
[01:02:02]  But they can't be because I'm a good guy.
[01:02:04]  Exactly.
[01:02:04]  So they've got this whole justification.
[01:02:06]  And then also, you'll see sometimes when, as they start talking about race, they kind of reveal that, oh, you have some real weird things on race yourself.
[01:02:14]  I remember there was this one time where, what's his name?
[01:02:18]  The Sargon of Akkad.
[01:02:19]  Yeah.
[01:02:20]  I think you were just screaming with him.
[01:02:21]  Yes, Carl Benjamin.
[01:02:23]  Was debating some guy at a college campus and he was taking like you know the freedom position more or less.
[01:02:28]  And the guy was arguing, you know, social justice stuff.
[01:02:30]  I don't remember exactly, but he said to him at one point that he was like, Yeah, I support, he was like, I support a free market.
[01:02:35]  You know, I believe in freedom.
[01:02:37]  And he goes, oh, great.
[01:02:38]  So white people can just dominate everything.
[01:02:41]  And, and Sargon just looked at him and he went, oh, so you're actually a white supremacist.
[01:02:45]  Yeah.
[01:02:45]  Like, and he was so uncomfortable, but like, he literally just admitted that he thought under free market conditions that white people would dominate.
[01:02:54]  Yeah.
[01:02:54]  And you're like, whoa, dude.
[01:02:56]  So who, holy shit, like, that's some real, Mr. Anti-racist, that is some hardcore racist shit, like that you really do view this like racial superiority of your race.
[01:03:11]  So like, ooh, swallow that pill.
[01:03:13]  Like, it was a, it was a really interesting moment.
[01:03:15]  Wait, was it like awkward as hell?
[01:03:17]  Yeah, it was awkward.
[01:03:17]  It was in front of an audience, too.
[01:03:19]  It was like they were on a stage together.
[01:03:21]  It was very, very hostile debate.
[01:03:23]  Really, really, I don't know if it's still on YouTube or it got taken down, but it was, yeah.
[01:03:27]  Because they view everything through government, right?
[01:03:29]  So if you're passing like all these laws that to us ostensibly to help minorities, therefore you can't be a white supremacist.
[01:03:35]  But a white supremacist, in many ways, has nothing to do with government.
[01:03:39]  It's your views that the white race is the best at everything, or not everything necessarily, or maybe whatever Asians are better at IQ and all this other stuff, but certainly that biologically there is a hierarchy and you're going to be as a white person higher up than a minority.
[01:03:55]  So in this case, you would need the state to kind of level the playing field.
[01:03:58]  Holy crap.
[01:03:59]  Yeah.
[01:03:59]  It was a real interesting thing.
[01:04:00]  I'll see if I can find that and send it to you.
[01:04:03]  If I can find it, I'll put it in the show notes, but I don't know.
[01:04:05]  I didn't say it was years ago.
[01:04:07]  But it's also really insane because if you look at, and this is something that's true, if you look at all these examples historically of black accomplishment, of Hispanic accomplishment accomplishment, even under circumstances that all of us would agree are oppressive, that these are heroic stories.
[01:04:23]  Like, wow.
[01:04:25]  Yeah.
[01:04:25]  Like even in the face of like incredible oppression, you still have these achievements.
[01:04:30]  So the idea is like, certainly, like without any of that oppression, they'd probably achieve more seems to be reasonable.
[01:04:36]  Like, who knows exactly where everything would shake out?
[01:04:38]  Yeah, it would certainly be more.
[01:04:39]  Yeah.
[01:04:40]  But to just say as like a given, you know what I mean?
[01:04:42]  Like that it's like, well, I mean, then white people would just dominate everything.
[01:04:45]  Yeah.
[01:04:45]  If he just means white people, literally, that's synonymous with saying white people would always win.
[01:04:50]  Yeah.
[01:04:51]  It was, it was something.
[01:04:52]  All right.
[01:04:53]  That's our, that's our show for today.
[01:04:55]  Always a pleasure talking with you, my brother.
[01:04:57]  And we will, uh, we will see you soon.
[01:04:58]  Thanks, everybody, for listening.
[01:04:59]  All right.
[01:05:00]  Catch at Freedom Fest.
[01:05:01]  I'm heading out tomorrow for anybody who's going to be out there.
[01:05:04]  I'll see you.
[01:05:05]  Say what's up.
[01:05:05]  Okay.
[01:05:07]  Michael won't, but I will channel him.
[01:05:09]  All right.
[01:05:09]  Peace.