Michael Heise and James Smith expose a coup within the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire, where rogue chair Gilletta Jarvis, backed by National Chair Joe Bishop Henchman, allegedly stole donor data and physical assets to form a fraudulent affiliate. Despite a 10,000% social media surge for the legitimate Mises Caucus, the establishment fabricated violence claims to discredit them. The hosts demand an LNC investigation into this property rights violation, framing the conflict as a necessary "Ron Paul Revolution 2.0" to purge corruption and restore true libertarian principles through bottom-up governance. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Future of the Libertarian Party00:15:29
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Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
You're listening to part of the problem on the Gas Digital Network.
Here's your host, James Smith.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
I'm very excited for this episode.
This is going to be a real, a real interesting one.
I want to, real quick, before we start, just want to thank everybody who came out last night to the stand-up show that me and Robbie the Fire did in Brooklyn.
Fantastic crowd, a lot of really great people, a lot of me caucs in the building in the New York area, which was cool to see.
And don't forget, Saturday, we're going to be out in Connecticut.
And then, of course, Porkfest, Freedom Fest, lots of fun stuff coming up in the future.
All right.
Returning to the show today, we have the great Michael Heiss, founder and chair of the Libertarian Party Mises Caucus.
We wanted to do an episode to talk about some of the things that have been going on in the Libertarian Party more broadly and specifically what's going on in New Hampshire.
I just want to start with a few thoughts and then I'll let you explain some of what's going on here, Michael, at least give our impression of what's happening because something pretty major happened in New Hampshire.
Pretty big deal.
I just want to say this, okay?
A couple things.
Number one, I had an impulse regarding this show that I've had a couple different times in my career.
And I've always come to the same conclusion.
And so far it's gotten me through.
And so I'm going to keep going with this.
But I thought to myself, man, maybe I should be strategic about what I say and what I don't say about this.
Maybe I should really think through what angle I want to play on this or how I should present it.
And then after having a little bit of an internal battle, I just had this moment.
I've had this several other times in my career where I went, you know what?
I'm just going to tell the truth.
I'm just, that's the relationship I have with my audience.
That's the relationship that I have with the Mises caucus and with the Libertarian Party.
And that's kind of what I bring to the table.
And even as I am flirting with the idea of venturing into a political run, that's still just what I'm going to bring.
I'm just going to tell you how I see things and tell you the truth.
And so I'm going to put all the chips out on the table in this episode.
And I'm not holding anything back for any strategic reasons.
If I get something wrong or more information comes out later, I'll be happy to come back and correct the record.
But I've mentioned several times on this show before, there was when Donald Trump was running to be the Republican nominee in 2016.
If you remember, they floated out the idea, Reince Priebus, and I think at the time it might have been whoever else was in leadership in the Republican Party.
They floated out the idea of changing the rules at the last minute to require more delegates to cinch the nomination so that Donald Trump couldn't get it.
And Donald Trump responded by saying, there will be riots in the streets.
And I remember talking about that on the show and saying, see, the thing with Donald Trump is that he is trying to take a position with a party leadership that's very hostile toward him.
And so he can't win by one or two points or one or two percent.
He has to flood in so many people that he's won by so much that no matter what they try to pull on him, they can't take it away from him.
And in some ways, we're in a similar position in the Libertarian Party with the Mises caucus.
I will say that I'm just putting this out there on the record in the spirit of telling the truth.
Me and you on a private phone call, I remember about, oh, I don't know, maybe it was like six, seven months ago, something like that.
And we were talking about some of our plans for the future and talking about, you know, ideas of what would be next for the Mises caucus.
And I remember saying to you, and I go, listen, man, just be prepared because you have no idea the shady things that are going to be pulled if we start doing this and this is successful the way I know it's going to be.
And I remember you said to me, you go, dude, I know, and I know they will do it.
I was expecting this whole time.
I'm actually kind of thrilled that this is happening because I was expecting a lot of shady things to happen to try to stop us.
What we have to do is the equivalent of what Trump did in the Republican Party.
We have to flood the zone with so many people and win by so much that there's just no way that they can do it.
So I was expecting, I was expecting people to try to change bylaws, to keep us out, to try to do whatever they could.
I did not expect it to be this soon.
I did not expect it to be this sloppy.
I'm actually kind of blown away by the stupidity of this move and how obviously what they just handed to us and how much this is going to backfire for them.
So for people who don't know, let's set up, let you set up first, what you did mention on the show before, but why don't we start with what happened in New Hampshire at the last convention?
Well, I'm going to back it up a little bit and go over some good news and crack a little joke here because like, you're absolutely right.
This is totally sloppy.
You know, the great Mob Deep once said that there's no such thing as halfway crooks, and that is absolutely false.
And they are in the establishment of the Libertarian Party.
And that's very clear here.
But before we get into the bitter stuff that happened, I'm kind of want to give some sugar first and speak to some really great things that happened because what happened in New Hampshire isn't the only thing that happened this weekend.
We did a sweep pretty much of Florida and we were already very strong in Florida.
Florida is a different state than say New Hampshire.
It's a much more harmonious state.
It's a lot more of an integration than anything else.
There's not any deep problems.
So essentially, there was 18 board votes that people were occupying the spaces in.
And we are 13 of them and all the others are at least neutral.
So 13 of them are either straight up me cawks or what we call friendlies, people who are aligned with us, but maybe don't want to identify with us.
So I kind of count that the same anyway.
So, I mean, that's the third largest delegation.
Same thing happened in California a few weeks ago.
You know, all of our, all of the people that we wanted to win state positions in California won.
And it was a very, very efficiently run convention, the most efficiently run that they've had in years to the point where even the old timer was like, wow, we got to platform shit for the first time in like six years.
This is crazy.
Thank you.
So that was all thanks to Angela.
And, you know, there's still upcoming conventions.
I don't know if people are interested.
It might be too late to become delegates to them at this point.
But, you know, Greensboro, North Carolina, 618 to 620, that's coming up.
Scott Horton will be there.
I believe Angela McArdle will be there.
So if you want to see Scott talk or you want to meet Angela, head on over there.
Same thing in Michigan, 625 to 627.
Unless you're, of course, you're going to Porkfest.
But if you can make it out to Michigan, Justin Amash will be there.
Spike Cohen will be there.
Angela will be there.
And, you know, there's some foul actors there that are going to be removed from their seats as well.
So kind of wanted to put that good out because taking it to Florida is a very, very good.
This is, I think it's important that you did put all of that out there.
And this is maybe what I should be clearer about in saying is that the fact I was surprised that this move came so soon.
I thought that they would still, I thought they would still believe that they could beat us.
To me, this was a huge admission.
Much like in Pennsylvania, it was an admission.
It's like, look, if we let everybody vote, we are going to lose.
So we're going to use this, you know, never used before bylaw to disenfranchise a bunch of the new people.
Now, technically, technically not against the rules.
I mean, and fine.
And this is what I said at the time.
I go, I'm not going to bitch about that.
This wasn't against the rules.
I mean, it's a little shady, you could argue, but it was following the rules, even though they've never done it this way before.
But I just took that as a victory.
This is clearly against the rules, and I take it as 10 times the victory.
And I think what they're realizing here is that all the stuff that we've talked about is, look, it's bearing out.
And the truth is that in 2020, we were, we had control of what in the 40s percentage of the party.
I mean, what did our chair candidate, Josh Smith, got 40-something percent of the vote?
Jacob Hornberger, our presidential candidate, won the first round of voting, ultimately ended up getting nudged out by Joe Jorgensen.
But since then, our fundraising has gone through the roof.
Our membership has gone way up.
And we're just going through taking state by state by state.
It's getting to a point, I think, that they're realizing what we've been saying for a while, that this is inevitable.
This is the future of the Libertarian Party.
And again, as I've been really beating the drums for all year long, not that the Mises caucus exclusively is the future of the Libertarian Party, that the Ron Paul Revolution 2.0 is the future of the party and that the Mises caucus are inspiring the Liberty movement into the party.
But so anyway, all of this is to be.
Last important thing to last important run-up detail is that as ugly as this is and as bad as it is, you're absolutely right.
It's a huge narrative victory and it's going to be a big motivator, but that's not the only important thing.
The other important thing is that this type of behavior is causing riffs in the other sides of the parties, internal riffs.
It's not like every member of the Prague's or every member of leadership or every member is, yeah, like let's cheat.
Like that is not the case.
And it is basically forcing the hand of honest, decent people to not pick a side like with us or versus them, but to pick a side with what's true and what's right.
And if that happens to put them on the side of us because we're on the receiving end of what's not true and what's not right, then so be it.
And so I'm telling you, there is a rising, very much so rising voice in the middle that is done, done.
Which is all of this.
Which is what I, what I want this to be and why I really, really hope.
By the way, for people listening who don't know what's going on, we're about to tell you what's going on there.
But I really, really want there to be, and I think there will be, that there's going to be other leaders in the party outside of the Mises caucus who are going to step up and call this out for what it is.
I've been talking to some of them.
I think some of them just want to get all of the details straight before they speak out against it, which I completely understand.
But this is not the Mises caucus versus others in the Libertarian Party.
This is two people particularly who acted in a very corrupt manner, who did something that they have no authority to do, and who are going to face the consequences of that one way or the other, whether through like being removed or through just losing the support of the party.
So let's tell people who are listening what happened in New Hampshire.
Let me start with the backstory.
So the backstory is in March, there was a state convention in the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire.
And this was really the first big blow of the year that the Mises caucus dealt to the establishment.
We did a clean sweep of almost every single board position in the state party.
And they worked with a woman named Gilletta Jarvis and elected her chair, even though she's not Mises caucus, as a gesture of goodwill.
And that's been kind of a tactic that our people have been taking across the country is to give certain spots to people who are not Mises to say, look, we are absolutely willing to work with you.
It was for everyone.
It was a great night for the Mises caucus.
It was a great night for Liberty.
It was a great night for none of the above.
Just all of them had fantastic shows in New Hampshire.
Now, in the couple of months since then, it's only been two months.
Their membership is already up 25% just from two months ago, let alone what it was in like December when recruiting really started.
Their revenue is way up.
And here's a crazy figure.
Their social media reach and impressions are up by, get this, 10,000%.
10,000%.
And that matters because that plays a part in the story.
So here's what happened.
Because of the changes, there's been some changes to the social media messaging.
And I'm sure people saw some of it, some of the posts like the governor's forgetmo post.
That's kind of what started the turmoil.
You know, the child, legalized child labor posts and all this kind of somewhat edgy borderline shit posting posts that also speak to our principles.
And they started getting wide reach.
They generated a Fox News article.
But again, their follows are way up.
Their impressions are way up.
So that's kind of what they were going to.
But the establishment of the party, not just in New Hampshire, but around the country, was highly incensed and did not appreciate any of this at all.
However, she was the minority.
We took the rest of the board.
And the chair of what's called the communications media relations committee was a Mises caucus person and the board supported what was going on.
So she basically kept trying to get changes done to go back to the way it was before and nobody was having it and she couldn't get her way, which appears to have made her and the old guard there extremely frustrated to the point of doing what's happened this weekend.
And what happened this weekend is the chair of the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire, Jilletta Jarvis, released a letter on the website, the New Hampshire, the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire website, essentially saying that she has created a brand new and filed with the state a brand new organization called the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire and that they have put up their own board,
which is hilariously comprised mostly of people that lost at the actual convention in March and have in doing so using her seat as chair took away access from all of the assets, all of the data to everybody that was actually elected to leadership positions.
So they no longer have access to social media.
They don't have access to their donor data, their membership data, the Google Drive with any of the general data, the website, everything.
Like they took away everything from the actual Libertarian Party, set up a new organization that they're calling the Libertarian Party, transferred that data to themselves, went to a storage locker where they had physical assets that belonged to the party podiums, audio video equipment, stole all of that.
Illegitimate New Hampshire Organization00:05:19
And to make it worse, in the letter where she outlines all her grievances about how nobody would listen to her in the messaging department, she links a letter signed by Joe Bishop Henchman recognizing her chairmanship of this new organization and the new organization itself as the legitimate Libertarian Party of New Hampshire.
Now, the problem there is that he has absolutely no authority to do that whatsoever.
I'm talking about the chair of the National Party, Joe Bishop Henchman.
You know, there has been, I think, one case in like 1999 where the Libertarian Party National disaffiliated a state party, and they can do that, but it can only come with it's probably a two-thirds or three-quarters vote of the state board or the national board.
The chair can absolutely not unilaterally say we we recognize this rogue organization.
And when I say stole, it is stolen.
I mean, they are about to lawyer up because we're when you drill down into what all has been stolen.
This is very serious data.
People's names, addresses, credit card information that they sent in for donations, all of that kind of stuff is their emails.
Like this is the state and federal criminal territory.
Yeah, it's it's unbelievably unethical behavior.
It seems to be pretty clearly criminal behavior.
And above all else, to me, just desperate behavior, like truly desperate.
And the justifications for it make absolutely no sense.
I mean, the letter that she put out where she's like, well, these people have an alternative agenda that is not for the Libertarian Party.
And you're like, well, they were elected by dues paying members of the Libertarian Party.
So clearly their agenda was to get these people in in New Hampshire.
Now, I just want to be, I want to be completely clear and I want to disclaim a bunch of things here that I haven't said publicly before.
But again, just spirit of telling the truth and putting all my cards out there.
Okay.
This is the truth.
I did not say anything about this publicly because I wanted to handle things behind the scenes.
I just felt it was more productive that way.
There's a small handful of bad faith actors who are always trying to smear the Mises caucus.
So last thing I want to do is give those people more fuel, but I'd rather just try to correct something if I disagree with that.
But you know this because I've gotten on the phone with you and I got on the phone with a couple of the people in New Hampshire.
I was very upset about the Twitter stuff.
I was not happy with it.
Now, I did not at the time know these numbers that you're talking about and that their reach and their followers have gone up so much.
There's an argument, I suppose, to be made.
And now I'm on the other side of the argument.
I did not like that stuff.
I do not like the shit posting.
I do not think that official blue check mark state party Twitter handles should engage in hyperbole, shit posting, trash talk, any of that stuff.
I don't like it.
I don't think they should be talking about John McCain in that way.
Even though I, again, it's not that I disagree with it.
I'd love to see Michael Malice tweeting that way.
I'd love to see private shit posting accounts.
That's fine.
It's different.
When you're, from my perspective, when you are a blue checkmark official state account, you are tweeting our official positions, nothing else.
Do not say, oh, we've changed our position on Gitmo.
We want to keep it up.
Do we?
Is that our new position?
No, it's not.
Our position is closed Gitmo yesterday.
You know, our position is close Gitmo before it ever opens.
That's our position.
So now, so I disagree with that.
I made this abundantly clear behind closed doors to people.
However, that being said, you simply cannot say, we don't like the way they're tweeting.
Therefore, we're stealing all of these things from people.
I'm sorry, that is the most anti-libertarian thing you could imagine, that you will actually violate the non-aggression principle, steal, and defraud.
And they not only defrauded the people who were duly elected, they defrauded the people who elected them.
This is anti-democratic in the legitimate sense of democracy, right?
So it's not like, like we think democracy when it comes to the state and the initiation of force is essentially illegitimate, like just because the state's illegitimate.
So it's, you know, if two rapists vote on raping a woman and she votes against it and they vote for it, that's illegitimate.
Like it doesn't matter.
You don't get a vote on initiating force on other people.
However, this is a completely voluntary organization where people come in, they pay money to be dues paying members.
They go through all the state protocols to be able to vote in this state election.
And the deal is that for your money, you get to go through this process and have your say for who represents you.
That is absolutely defrauding these people to take that away from them.
And for listen, Joe Bishop Henchman, I have never once taken a public shot at the guy.
Sponsorship and Ethical Concerns00:02:58
I don't think.
I think maybe on our stream with Karen Ann Harlos, I said, when was the last time you heard him say something brave or something like that?
Well, that's not a shot.
Just the implication, the obvious answer could be construed as a shot.
Yes, sure.
But I've never, I didn't come into the thing with this guy.
Like I had my beef with the former chair who's completely irrelevant now.
I don't care about any of that.
So I didn't have a problem with this guy, but he inserted himself here in an just outrageously unethical way.
And now he's put himself in a very bad position.
And I got to say, this is not just something that the Mises caucus people are saying.
I'm talking to other people in the party who are outraged with him.
Karen Ann Harlos just did a stream about this.
I'm going to link that stream in the comment section where she was outraged that he evidently met with the other LNC leaders after he signed this letter.
The topic of New Hampshire came up and he did not mention this to them.
He deceived the entire national committee about what was going on here to do something he has no authority to do.
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Republican Excuses and Hearsay00:15:45
Look, man, this is like some, I really am blown away by how idiotic this move is.
I thought they would have like some tricks up their sleeve.
I'm like waiting for something to happen.
Like you guys have to have something better than this, right?
And there's a lot of details that make it worse than what I already said.
Like there's a lot more fishiness.
And as far as Joe Bishop Henchman, you know, we had, we had agreed that we would give him, you know, the benefit of the doubt when he was elected.
We would give him a fair shake, even though I already knew he didn't like us and everything, but we had to give him a fair shake.
And frankly, this is just the culmination of a bunch of bullshit behavior that he has been doing from behind the scenes.
You know, I think his general strategy, whereas Nick was, I hate to even use the word strength here, but like he had a strength of personality enough to go out there and say whatever he thought, as crazy as it was.
And that acted as a fuel to our fire.
And I think Joe thought that if he just kind of stopped that, that he could, he could starve that fire.
And that was probably a smarter move on his part.
Right, but it's clearly not true.
Well, it was clearly not true.
And he has been doing things from behind the scenes.
Like there's been several occasions now where he has declared people that he wants to win state chairs races.
Activist of the month, for example, you know, he's the one who made the call to stop the affiliate program where like there's affiliate links for people like you, people who are like Tom, people like Maj.
Well, there was never an affiliate link for me.
There's crazy in this crazy coincidence that's just, you know, just happens to be purely, you know, just, you know, by circumstance.
The day after I was approved for an affiliate link and sent in the paperwork or the day after they approved me and then requested the paperwork, the whole affiliate program got canceled because they did not want it to be public knowledge how many people I was bringing into the party.
Right.
Or I'm just speculating.
I mean, it could just be a coincidence.
And again, I talked to staffers, like, and they, they, that was all predicated on, well, it's costing us more money than we're raising, which is absurd.
And, you know, the staff was all in favor of the program.
They were, and, and, the only reason they canceled that is because we were the only people utilizing it because frankly, we don't, we're the only people that really have, I would argue, the, the strong recruiters in the party.
We have, you know, your help and Tom's help and Maj's help.
We have a lot of people who are coming in that have large audiences and, you know, it would just help bolster us.
And they knew that.
So they did that.
Another thing that's, that he's been doing is there's, there's a seeming pattern of him pulling out of speaking engagements at state convention conventions once it looks like we're set to do very well at those state conventions.
Like, and so there's, there's all of this kind of thing.
And so the first thing he did is he went on, I don't know if you know this.
That's, this is one of the links I sent you, but there is a public listserv that the LNC posts to when they are conducting business.
And it's all publicly viewable.
So that's where this is all, at least as far as the LNC is concerned, is all fleshing out right now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I did, I did read through that.
So, yeah, so he posted the email chain with Josh and Karen and all them on it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so he, so Joe had made a post on there saying that there was a different cause for this whole action.
And then what that caused was there's a woman named Jackie Perry who had her membership removed from the state party of New Hampshire recently.
And that happened on the 8th.
Well, the letter that he signed was dated the 7th.
And so they're making this excuse.
And now, Jackie Perry, I don't think there's hardly anybody that would agree or that would disagree with her being removed.
She is an exceptionally toxic and hateful person.
But even she is like, they're trying to use me as a pawn.
I had nothing to do with this.
Do you know what I mean?
And the dates of it show that that is not the case.
There's a bunch of claims that Gilletta Jarvis, the chair, makes that justify this that are just blatantly false.
Like, so, for example, and Karen N has pointed this out.
They said that the Mises caucus and the new leadership that was from the Mises caucus didn't intend to run candidates and we intended to support Republicans and we were turning the party into a proxy.
And their whole justification for this is one member who has been around for 13 years, is not a Mises caucus member, put one post into the New Hampshire Libertarian Party Facebook group just as a conversation piece saying, hey, I don't know the name of the guy, but hey, there's a guy who might be running for governor who's like a Rothbardian.
He has an exceptionally good track record in the state party here.
Just, again, a little bit of backstory.
The Republican Party in New Hampshire is not bad.
Like a Rothbardian is the speaker of the House.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Like, so it's a little bit, yeah, it's a little bit of a different dynamic there.
And so one of these very, very good Liberty Republicans, I guess, is considering running for governor.
And this person just brought up as a conversation piece.
Well, what if we just didn't run anybody for governor?
And if we're going to do the ballot access thing, maybe we run somebody for Senate or a different state level race.
So by the way, a common sense approach, which is also taken by one Justin Amash, who said as much in Florida recently, this week.
It's quite funny.
I mean, look, this whole thing is freaking hilarious.
And I know I don't mean to like, I know there are some people in New Hampshire right now who are in a state of limbo who are very upset about this.
And I don't mean to downplay them.
You guys were duly elected.
You are the legitimate party.
I'm very confident this whole thing is going to get straightened out and they're going to be back in control because this is it's just that this is hilarious.
Joe Bishop Henchman here tried to do something that is, I certainly think illegal, absolutely unethical and absolutely not within his authority to do.
He's going to fall flat on his face here and this is going to look very bad.
But what's funny is this idea that like, well, one guy once said that we shouldn't challenge a Republican in these certain circumstances.
Therefore, they're working for the Republicans.
Meanwhile, we literally in 2016 ran a candidate that endorsed Hillary Clinton at the last moment, threw the Libertarian Party under the bus and said, vote for Hillary Clinton.
Like, I mean, this is so hilarious.
This whole thing is a narrative that is thrown at us a lot.
It's that, oh, the Mises caucus is just a bunch of Republicans.
And yet what's funny is there is a group of people that ran Bob Barr.
There is a group of people that ran Gary Johnson and Bill Weld.
There is a group of people that tried to get Lincoln Chafee and Judge Jim Gray and like all these people nominated here in 2020.
And it's not us.
You know what I mean?
Like we've only been around for one presidential cycle.
We supported Hornburger.
We ran Jacob Hornberger.
Who is literally, and this is like a quote saying, conservatism is an evil ideology.
You know what I mean?
Jacob Hornberger, the guy we ran, his biggest criticism of the LP was that we were too similar to the Republicans.
And this is what drove him crazy.
What sank his, one of the things that I think sank his, his, his ability to win was how much he attacked Justin Amash as being a Republican.
So, yeah, it's just funny.
It's again, it just speaks to the desperation that you're talking about.
But so she claimed that.
She also claimed that there was threats of violence against her.
And there's been no substantiation of that.
There's been no screenshots, no nothing, no police reports.
And in fact, the Judicial Committee of the, which is essentially the court system of the state party, the Judicial Committee of New Hampshire has now put out a statement saying we were never made aware of any of these claims of threats of violence.
Another claim that was made is that the Mises caucus was just starting with Jackie Perry.
And, you know, they were going to, heads were going to roll.
It was going to be the French Revolution.
Everybody who was not Mises is going to be axed from the party.
And this is completely not true.
Like what caused.
The irony of it is what caused Jackie Perry to be to be have her membership removed was she publicly put out Giletta Jarvis, the chair's phone number, her work email, her work contact information.
And so the people on the board were protecting Gilletta Jarvis from Jackie Perry by getting rid of her membership, only for Giletta Jarvis to then go and create this new organization and have that cited.
You know what I mean?
And again, she was the chair of the meeting where that expulsion happened.
She didn't object.
She didn't not recognize the motion to do such.
She didn't take it to the judicial committee.
So like, you know, and that's another thing with the, with it, so that was, that's obviously a bunk excuse.
And then the other excuse was can I just say, can I just say one more time?
Because I've made this point so many times before, but it is like with the even though I have no, I guess, technical authority within the Mises caucus, I certainly have a good amount of influence and am, you know, like one of the figures, you know, that is very supported by the Mises caucus and I'm a member of it.
There will be no purges of any members under like that simply will not happen as long as I'm around and as long as you're around.
What we've said before is that, look, if we get all of the people that we want in control of the party, which we want because we think that's the best thing to achieve liberty, that's the reason we want it.
Then the people who call us Nazis all day will probably have no other option than to leave because would you really want to be in a movement that's being led by people who you consider Nazis?
But that's all we've said.
I don't even want to remove those people from the party.
I mean, if they're like, I don't want them to be in control of it for sure, but like, I don't care.
I don't care who would want to come and vote for us, support us, be in the back.
But this idea that we were going to start purging people is ridiculous.
It's based on no truth.
Absolutely.
In fact, once I heard that, I went to all of my people there and was like, this isn't true.
Is it?
This is going to undermine everything.
This is crazy.
Right.
And they were like, of course not.
Like, and yeah.
So again, that's just hearsay.
So that was a bunk excuse.
Then came the tweets, which I think is the actual cause of all of this.
And even then, what they don't know is that I was on the phone with the person who was responsible for those tweets Saturday morning and I was getting the concessions.
You know, like I was, I was, you know, I went to him and said, look, man, like, I know, I know this is probably annoying to you, but like, I've got a lot of organizers that I have to answer to.
They are kind of divided on this.
And, you know, our people have worked very hard to be in a position to put you in that position in the first place.
And, you know, and I got the concessions, but nobody cared about that.
You know, like, and again, like you said, not liking some tweets is not an excuse to steal all of the property of the party.
And that's what it is.
That's exactly what it is.
And can I say, I really, listen, I, I, my initial response to this was that I publicly invited Joe Bishop Henchman on the show.
And he never responded to that.
And, you know, like, okay, fine.
He doesn't have to.
I do, I'd say I have, I think, the biggest platform in this space.
I think it would make sense for him to come on and clear the air and explain what's happening here.
But the thing that was really what I found troubling and revealing in that email that he sent out, which he made public for anyone to see, is that he takes, he, he doesn't address the obvious thing to address.
You know, he kind of says he's like, well, you know what?
I mean, there's this other organization and it seems like there's there's been accusations of some things made.
So we're going to kind of have to sit and wait and see what happens.
And it's like, look, here is the obvious question that everyone wants to know.
Did you mean in that letter what this lady is claiming you meant, that you're giving her the authority to go start another Libertarian Party that is now the official state libertarian affiliate?
And two, by what authority can you do that?
Correct.
That's these are the very simple questions that he needs to answer.
So that is a big deal.
And another thing that he had in that email is he said that there's evidence that they're Republican plants, never published that evidence.
So like there's this is completely arbitrary, completely unilateral, but you're absolutely right.
That is the big takeaway.
And in my opinion, there's two takeaways because I think what the outcome of this is going to be is things will be made right in New Hampshire.
But I think the wider implications of what happened here is going to be attempted to be swept under the rug because Jarvis was actually set to resign as chair.
She was just done with all of this.
Now, let me back up.
So Karen Ann Harlos really deserves a shout out here because she is a badass.
She was acting from early morning as the parliamentarian of the Florida Libertarian Party Convention.
And in about the last half hour of that meeting, she started catching wind of this.
The LNC member, there was a, and in a way, thank God this happened this weekend because I was in Florida, a whole bunch of LNC members were in Florida.
They didn't know about any of this until I told them.
You know, like I got a text from one of my New Hampshire people saying this can't possibly be legal.
Right.
And so I'm like, we have an emergency, you know, and maybe a quarter or a third of the LNC was there and all agreed.
Yeah, this is wild.
And so she got to work.
And the first thing that she did that night was she did, she held some unofficial interviews.
One with the New Hampshire crew, which I was on, the actual Libertarian Party executive committee.
And then she did one with Gilletta Jarvis.
And in my opinion, those two videos are the most compelling thing to watch in this whole thing because Jarvis admitted a lot.
And that brings me back to she was set to resign.
And somebody who she refused to name said, there's another way we can do this and basically goaded her into what looks like a criminal conspiracy.
And she won't say who it is.
And then she and she had obtained the letter from Joe Henchman.
So we don't know who did that, who all worked with her, if those people were connected to Henchman.
But the important thing is in the video, because there was some uncertainty as to what the nature of that video, or I'm sorry, not the video, sorry, the letter that Joe signed was.
Some people were speculating, well, oh, no, this is standard stuff.
You know, he has to recognize the chair.
So it's just, you know, of the party.
And she was elected as the chair of the party.
And it's just that.
But no, she's asked and point blank says that he knew exactly what it was for and was supporting her in this in this action.
She also said...
And if she, and just to be clear about this, if she were lying about that, right?
If she has a letter from Joe Bishop Henchman and he didn't mean it in that way, and he was just saying, no, you're the chair of the party, but the real party, not this new party that you've created.
And she's using his letter to say that in his follow-up email, you would assume he would have to make that point.
Disgusting LNC Email Behavior00:02:51
Like, how would you possibly send another email if that were the situation and not go, yeah, no, I did not authorize any of this.
I don't have the authority to authorize any of this.
So the fact that he didn't kind of, I mean, beyond a reasonable doubt proves that that's exactly what's going on here because it's just, it's too inconceivable that someone would claim, like, you know, like if I signed a letter, you know, to like Rob Bernstein and said, like, you know, this entitles you, the podcast that you are on is officially part of the problem.
And then he goes, hey, I'm starting this new podcast and this is part of the problem now.
And look, I have this letter from Dave.
But that wasn't at all what I meant by it.
I did not give him authority to do this.
And then I sent out an email.
I wouldn't be like, well, Rob's claiming one thing.
Some other people are claiming another thing.
We'll have to sit back and see what happens.
I think I would just be like, no, Rob, have a sandwich.
Another thing that she said is that she had consulted with the Region 8 representative, which is a guy named Tucker Coburn.
And Tucker Coburn was the lone no vote on having Tom Woods at the convention.
And he is a known Mises caucus hater.
So it raises question on whether the Region 8 representative was involved in this.
There's another LNC member that resides in New Hampshire.
We have no idea where they are on this.
So yeah, it's pretty bad.
But that video that Karen Ann and some of the LNC members made with her was extremely damning.
That's where the discrepancy in, oh, well, it was about Jackie Perry being expelled.
Well, it was signed on the 7th.
That's where that came from.
And like what was the funniest part of that whole video was it really seemed like Jarvis didn't realize what she was copping to until she was about halfway through copping to it.
Like Karen Ann was like, all right, so hypothetically, if convention, the national convention was tomorrow, you know, which organization is sending delegates?
And she's kind of like, I guess mine.
You know, like it would be mine.
But yeah, and I don't think it's hit her the seriousness of like credit card data.
That's not good.
Like credit, like donor data has been stolen.
And for all you know, they can, whoever has it might have copied it.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, and and and so that is a serious, serious situation that is not being properly addressed by the LNC.
And if you read that LNC email list, it is disgusting that just some of the absolute casualness with which this is being approached.
And people are clearly like, well, not some, not all of them, but some people are clearly more worried about making sure that Joe Bishop Henchman looks good in all of this.
And we're not casting his verses on Joe Bishop Henchman, you know, and all of that.
Serious Data Theft Situation00:02:35
And it's clearly factional.
And that is disgusting.
That needs to be pushed back on because again, the move here is going to be, well, we'll restore New Hampshire.
And yeah, I'm sorry.
Listen, even to people out there who are like critics of the Mises caucus.
And if you don't like our messaging or you don't like the way we do it or you don't like anything else about us, that is fine.
We can save those conversations for another time.
This is very clear cut.
How, what is the argument that they had the authority to do this?
And it's just so obvious.
What we're looking at here was a coup attempt of a state affiliate party.
And to any member who's a leader, I mean, if you can't stand up to that, you are not fit to be in leadership.
Now, to their credit, a lot of people, look, Karen Ann Harlos has just been really truly has integrity and has demonstrated that throughout this whole thing.
And again, she's not Mises caucus and she has been critical of us in the past.
She's been critical of me in the past on several different counts.
And I think that's fine.
I think she has every right.
You know, I think she actually might have been right about some of her criticisms of us.
And I think she was wrong about others.
She made sure to yell at me and say, damn it, Mike, this is the result of the takeover language.
And I'm like, that's your fault, Dave.
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Outrageous Alt-Right Censorship Claims00:16:02
The implications of this are going to be attempted to be swept away.
And you can see it in the attitude of the LNC.
Like, so some of the responses that are coming from the LNC is, well, we shouldn't recognize either of those organizations until this is solved.
It's like, what are you talking about?
You've recognized the one organization for decades now.
There has never been a transfer of association.
There's never been, there's nothing, like, what are you talking about?
It's like not recognizing both of them.
Or, oh, the LNC shouldn't be involved in this.
This is a state issue.
It's like that would be correct if Joe Henchman, the chair of the National Party, didn't already muddy these waters, you know, and so that has to be dealt with.
So, yeah, so there's going to be a meeting of the LNC on Friday evening, it looks like.
These meetings are public, like, and they're live streams.
Do you know what time on Friday?
I don't yet.
It's most likely going to be seven o'clock Eastern, something like that.
And it's going to be really important that there is pressure applied and that we get as many people to view that as possible and to apply that pressure.
And, you know, there's also, we've done this many times before, but you can also email the LNC and you can do it like a one-click.
You know, we can link to that on the show notes page as well, but and demand that this be taken seriously, that the implications of the chair and his involvement be taken seriously and investigated.
And that there's justice done to the people that are responsible for this.
Yeah.
Listen, I got to say, man, and I mean, I'm looking at this and barring that there is some drastically new information that which I don't see what it could be at this point.
But with the exception of that, if this is what it clearly appears to be, there's really no other option than Joe Bishop Hengman needs to resign or be removed.
And I'm not like, I'm not saying that like flippantly.
It's not something that I want to be in the position of saying.
I don't want him to be removed.
I want Angela to beat him fair and square.
That's what I want to happen.
But this is just too outrageous.
I mean, this is an absolute, You know, like a criminal, unethical act that he has no authority to do to defraud the will of the members of the party to steal from them.
And not just outrageous.
But and not just that, but the precedent that this sets.
These people are like, they're literally willing to tear the party apart.
It's really like it's they'd rather burn it down than lose.
They'd rather burn it down than lose.
They'd rather undermine the entire.
This strikes at the very heart of what of how the party is run and governed.
You know, that this is that this is a bottom-up organization run by its members.
And, or as somebody once famously said, it's run by those who show up.
And, you know, this is this, like the first thing that I thought when I heard this is like, oh my God, this sounds like what America does in other countries when they install democracies and then the votes don't go the way they want.
You know what I mean?
Like, like, this is insane.
And, and I'm telling you, it's, I can't stress enough, it's going to be attempted to be swept under the rug.
And I hate to say it, but for no, you're absolutely right.
He should be removed.
This is highly egregious.
They stole a state party and the chair was involved.
But for nothing other than factional crap, it's not going to happen.
I'm willing to bet that they get a censorship.
Now, for those who don't know, a censorship is nothing really.
Like, I don't know if you watched that cartoon Doug when you were little and the principal's always saying, like, this is going to go on your permanent record.
You know, like, that's kind of like what a censorship is.
It's basically saying like, you did this.
We know you did this.
You fucked up.
Don't fuck up again.
So it's mostly symbolic.
Like it's basically just like a formal slap on the wrist.
Right.
At the same time, it kind of, or at least I hope it binds him from future corruption because you can't just stack up censorships.
And again, it's a huge narrative victory.
Angela don't have any censorships.
You know what I mean?
Like Angela was not involved in a coup attempt or state, like in her state or otherwise.
You know, he's now going to have to deal with this.
Here's what I really care about coming out of this.
And we can, we're kind of getting toward the end.
And if there's more stuff you want to say, you can.
But I just to take my big takeaways from this is: look, here's what I really care about coming out of this.
Number one, the party has to be returned to the rightful party.
We can't allow this to just be stolen from the people who worked their asses off, showed up and were elected by the members of this party.
Those people need to get their state party back, period.
If they do not, then the party and particularly the people involved in this have just destroyed their credibility and destroyed the credibility of the party in many ways.
It's so funny, ironically, because the criticism of me, right, from, because I dared to say that I, what I care about is liberty, not the Libertarian Party.
And a lot of my critics have jumped on that and like, oh, he's not loyal to the party.
And, you know, people criticize me for you didn't vote for the party candidate every single time and all this stuff.
Yet they're really willing to destroy the party when it's not the candidate that they want to be.
Yeah, who really cares about it?
Yeah, but who really cares about it by that standard?
Yeah, it's quite quite revealing.
The other thing, though, and this is really the thing I've been talking about all year long.
And a lot of people have kind of misconstrued it, or I think maybe sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally.
But when I've talked about uniting with other members of the party, look, the fact that this shady shit that's going on, like this does, this was like two, three, maybe four people involved in this.
There's a few people who acted in a reprehensible fashion.
This is not the vast majority of the party.
Probably something closer to 16, 17.
There's 13 people listed as the new board and everything in New Hampshire.
Then there's the mystery co-conspirator.
Then there's the chair and fair enough, but I just mean who actually pulled this thing off.
Yes, there certainly are other people who are willing to go along with it and who are willing to take the positions and things like that.
But look, we may have disagreements with Justin Amash on some messaging issues, but Justin isn't a corrupt guy.
I may have had a few disagreements with Spike Cohen on some messaging issues.
Spike is not a corrupt guy.
These are good people who believe in liberty and do want to see more liberty in the country.
There's lots and lots and lots of people like that in the party.
I would really, really hope that those people will stand up against this and just do the right thing.
Now, I understand it's somewhat self-serving in this instance, as it behooves the Mises caucus for me to request that.
But the truth is that that's just the reality of the situation.
This is what happened here.
I swear, I am being 100% sincere when I say this.
If we were ever in a position like this, where we had the chair of a party and Angela won, let's say Angela is our chair, and then, I don't know, we have the state chair of a party, but the Prags come in and they get a clean sweep and they have every other position and they've taken over the energy of the party.
And it's just, it's a Prague state affiliate.
And you or Angela came to me and went, well, here's what we're going to do.
We're going to have Angela sign this letter.
The state chair is going to form a new chair.
We're going to completely, illegally, without authority, do this.
And we're going to kind of screw over all of these people who elected these people.
I mean, there is, first off, obviously for ethical reasons, I would be like, absolutely not.
We can't do anything.
But the thing that's sticking out in my head more is just, I would also right away be like, this is going to blow up in our face.
Like, if we do this, this is going to make us look horrible.
It'll be such a huge narrative victory to the people that we're trying to disenfranchise here.
Like, this is just so stupid to attempt to do.
So I would just say to other people, because I've seen some people out there who were like, you know, a little bit like, oh, this just shows how corrupt the party is.
And that's why we can't even deal with this.
And I saw some people who are like, let me know if Angela wins and then I'll get involved, but I can't get involved till then because they're so corrupt.
Listen, this should just do nothing but light a fire underneath you.
This is proof that we are doing this.
This is, this is, this party is going to be exactly what we want it to be.
It really is making me excited because it's like they know it.
We know it.
We know that they know it.
And we know that they know that we know that they know it.
So that's the state of things in the libertarian.
And they still lie.
And they still lie is the end of that quote.
Yes.
But there, but that's, but that's the, that's the state of things right now.
So people should be excited.
This should make you want to double down.
If you get in on it now, you're going to be like, oh, we were a part of taking this thing back to what it's supposed to be, to what it's supposed to be, the real liberty movement.
Look, man, the fact that these people up there, they would violate every libertarian principle.
There's every libertarian, basic property rights principles in order to try to get some people out who they don't want to be in.
It's just, it's really something.
Anyway, what are your thoughts or anything else you want to add?
What you're describing has already happened.
It's already happening.
Like I said, there was a bunch of people in the LNC and otherwise that were down there that are influential in the inner machinations of the party.
And like, you know, I won't name names, but there's one guy that I was starting, frankly, starting to grow suspicious of.
Totally, totally on the right side, got my respect.
Another person that I've been very skeptical of for quite some time, totally on the right side.
You know, we all exchange phone numbers.
Amash, you know, me and him have a phone call to talk about what kind of resources we should be generating to support candidates.
You know, like me and Spike are friends.
You know, we talk back and forth.
We've been hanging out at a lot of these conventions.
Like what you're talking about is already happening.
And we're not here to take over the party from libertarians.
We're here to take over the party from bad actors that have destroyed the party and are willing to literally destroy it rather than lose.
You know, like we're not against any libertarian.
We want to turn what it has been and turn it into like a friendly and fair competition.
You know, the way I see it, it's like, all right, you got the prags and you got these different factions and we're just coming in and saying, look, we have a different vision for how the party should be run.
We're more in line with the founding vision of the party.
And, you know, we want to compete with you with whose vision is going to be controlling the party or push forward.
But in the course of that, as long as we are beholden to the interests of the party above ourselves, then no matter who wins, the party is built in that competition.
And it's no big deal if you lose.
It's like, oh, well, you know, there's always next year.
It doesn't have to be like this hateful, spiteful, oh, control thing.
And that's what it's been turned into and what we're trying to take it back out of.
Right.
Yeah.
No, I think that's absolutely right.
I am, like I said, I'm more optimistic now than I've ever been.
I really think this thing couldn't be going any better than it's been.
The whole Mises caucus experiment is just as successful as I could have possibly hoped it would be.
Absolutely.
One last thing I'll add on the New Hampshire thing is I don't want people to think that this isn't being taken serious on our end and on the ground.
And, oh, man, we're just waiting for this LNC thing, you know, and all of that.
No, police reports have been filed.
Lawyers are being consulted.
If they don't get the friggin party back soon, they're going to move forward with that.
And I'm fully in support of them with that.
There's already been footage of the storage unit where all their physical assets were stolen from.
They're in contact with the storage unit place to get an ID on who these people were.
They describe suspicious activity out of these people.
So it's absolutely being taken serious on all levels.
And that's why we've got to push the party and apply that pressure in the meeting and do the email and everything like that, because this can't slide.
And they cannot be allowed to sweep the henchman and the mystery co-conspirator aspect of this under the rug.
It's just too big.
But like you said, last thing I'll say is, like you said, you're surprised that they did this now.
And so am I, because last year, so all right, this year they stole a state party.
Last year, they tried to steal a convention.
Like they literally tried to cancel a legitimate convention.
I won't get into all the details, but it was obscenely corrupt.
But they at least had the sense to do that at the zero hour where there was like no recourse and no way out of it or way to do anything about it.
Like it was just at the end of the whole process culminating in the convention.
This is a year out.
Like we're, well, 11 months.
We're 11 months out from the convention, the national convention.
But this is kind of the point I was making is that it speaks to what they actually see as the state of things.
And even though we're 11 months out, they realize how much we're in the driver's seat here.
And look, the truth is that you just, you got a situation where they see the writing on the wall.
And so they're acting in a desperate manner.
But the thing to me that I just couldn't when I first saw this, and it was Justin O'Donnell, I believe, who messaged me about it.
Again, not a Mises caucus guy, but just a guy who sees the outrageous corruption of this and is like, what?
Like, this is not, you know, this is the one that's he was not a fan of the Mises caucus up until somewhat recently where we saw how many people were bringing in, how much work we're doing.
So here's the thing: here's what starts to happen.
And this is why this is this, this brought a smile to my face when I first saw it.
Even though, obviously, I understand this is stressful and it's fucked up to the guys who were elected out in New Hampshire.
I'm not trying to like downplay that at all.
This is really wrong.
What they did to you, they stole from you and that's not okay, you know.
But it brought a smile to my face because it's just like, how stupid could you guys be that you're just overplaying your hand and exposing yourselves, which is really all I wanted.
All I've been calling for this whole time is like, let's put our cards out on the table.
As I said in my speech in Pittsburgh, I said, hey, if you got, and I meant this, if you guys don't want Ron Paul libertarians in the party, say so.
Let's have that debate.
I'm very happy to have that open debate, but don't start doing this.
You're alt-right entryists, you know, like bullshit.
Like it's just, it's like, oh, and I just think that the more that any, and this is part of the strategy of the liberty unity thing too, where people realize it's, it's, you know, it's both.
I'm being honest, but I'm also being a little bit Machiavellian with it too, where I go, look, I do want to unite with every other good libertarian, but I also want everyone to see that I'm willing to unite with other good libertarians.
The narrative about us, I think with a lot of people like Justin O'Donnell, with some of these other people, is the more information you take in, the narrative collapses.
They're saying, oh, you guys use the word takeover.
They just literally took over a state party.
They're saying you guys want to purge people.
They just literally purged a whole bunch of people from the party.
Recurring Strategic Racism Tactics00:03:59
How much more of this can you keep up?
And then whatever they say about me, they'll be like, Dave, is this alt-right racialist?
And then people see me on Joe Rogan, on Tim Poole, and all these other things.
That's not the guy you're seeing, is it?
Who was going to support you?
Tim Poole?
Yes, that's right.
Oh, that's right.
I won Tim Poole's vote the other day.
But you know what I'm saying?
Like you see me on these platforms, you're like, oh, that's not who we are.
They go, well, they're leading, you know, their, what is it, alt-right entryism or something like that.
And you go, okay, well, here's my speech at Pittsburgh, where I tell a room of 350 people in the Mises caucus there that we reject racism.
And the room is electric.
Like thunderous applause to that, which by the way, I don't think the video does justice.
Ask anyone who is in that room.
It was thunder.
It was electric in that room.
So why are these, why are these racists so enthusiastically cheering that they reject racism?
Like it just doesn't make sense.
And this is what's happening is that they have the in a glorious way, they have completely exposed the narrative.
And now they've lost all of the moral high ground, particularly henchmen has lost all of the moral high ground to say their language or their takeover or their purging people.
Nope, we're not doing any of that.
We're trying to help this party and grow the party and grow the liberty movement.
And that's what we're doing.
So just for people listening to this, if you might have gotten lost in some of the weeds and some of the details here, the key takeaway is that we are on the verge of doing exactly what we planned on doing, which is making the Libertarian Party a force for true liberty.
Ron Paul Revolution 2.0.
Here we come, motherfuckers.
Last point, and then I'll plug and exit.
There's a reason they do what you just described.
There's a reason that they're calling you a transphobe and a Nazi and a Jewish Nazi.
And there's a reason that they're saying all this stuff.
And it's because they're not willing to be honest about their agenda.
And they're trying to wrap that agenda up in some grandiose thing.
So like we will say, yes, we are coming for leadership positions.
And the reason we're coming for leadership positions is because the Libertarian Party has misrepresented the Libertarian movement and has not been open to making the changes necessary to become appealing to that movement and absorb them.
We have to take those reins to make those changes to be appealing to the low-hanging fruit.
We'll tell you that point blank up front.
That's the goal.
That's why we're doing it.
We're going to do it, period.
They're not willing to say, well, we want to maintain control.
We want to be the ones that control the party, you know, and we want to maintain the trajectory that we've been on, which they couldn't possibly justify.
So they have to, so they have to, and they think the whole takeover thing is bad when they've already taken over the party 15 years ago and have held it ever since.
So they have to wrap it up in some grandiose bullshit about how they're defeating racism from the hearts of man or some shit.
And like it's, it's all bullshit.
And it's, like you said, it's absolutely collapsing.
The middle is rising up.
There are now big splits that's separating the wheat from the chaff in the radical caucus, in the Prague caucus, in the uncaucus.
Like it's all happening right now.
And it's something to watch.
Yeah, I'm excited for where we go from here.
All right, man.
Listen, thank you so much for coming on and helping break all this shit down and give the kind of official LPMC perspective on everything that's happening here.
And yeah, do any more plugs?
Let people know about all the gigs coming up and all that stuff.
We need your support.
Takehumanaction.com, become a recurring donor.
You can join the over 1,000 recurring donors to do more events, bring Dave more places, support more delegates in the quest for appealing to the movement, to support Angela McArdle.
So that's the big one.
Takehumanaction.com and at least join the email list there, if not become a recurring donor.
And we've got our event in Fairfax, Virginia coming up October 2nd, where we're doing our pilot program.
Campus Recruitment and Donors00:00:37
It's actually the first of what's, we're hoping to make a regular campus outreach and recruitment program.
So like Tom's going to come and do a lecture.
Tom Woods is going to come and do a lecture on secession.
Michael Bolden's going to come and do a lecture on nullification.
There's an after party where you will be doing comedy.
And the idea is basically to get these radical principles into the hands of students that also happen to be a particular strategic interest in us and what we want to do with the party and recruit these people in the party as we're educating them.