Magnus Panvidia details the Boogaloo movement's shift from memes to tactical street activism, arguing their actions are responses to police violence rather than terrorism. He advocates for a post-partisan unity rejecting left-right paradigms to address bank bailouts and foreign wars, warning that intelligence agencies target such cross-ideological cooperation. The discussion highlights disparities in police response, contrasting ignored white male victims like Daniel Shaver with heavy crackdowns on local protests, while critiquing performative culture wars that distract from tangible issues like war and mask mandates. Ultimately, Panvidia promotes a unified front to challenge government overreach and prioritize community aid over ideological purity. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
|
Time
Text
Government Overreach and Activism00:15:14
Fill her up.
You're listening to the Gas Digital Network.
We need to roll back the state.
We spy on all of our own citizens.
Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
You're listening to part of the problem on the Gas Digital Network.
Here's your host, James Smith.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
I'm very excited to be joined today by Magnus Panvidia, who has been blowing up all over the interwebs.
He had a speech that went viral, I guess, is where it all kind of your recent rise started.
And then you've been on Jimmy Doerr and Alex Jones a couple times and a whole bunch of the other podcasts, Thaddeus Russell, Reed Coverdale, a lot of people who I'd imagine a lot of my listeners also listen to.
And I was very interested to have this conversation.
So let me just start here.
Have you ever or are you currently a member of the Boogaloos?
And if so, when did you start Boogalooing?
Yeah, so current member.
It's coming up on a year now.
Actually, past the year.
I think it was last April when I got involved in all of this.
It's a little weird because you kind of have to separate like, it's very similar to Anonymous and the whole like guy fox and all that to where like there was a distinct moment where it went from being kind of like a meme to like a movement.
So and that was that was back in April.
And that's when I started getting involved in all of this with like the lockdowns hitting and everything kind of going fucking sideways like it did a year ago.
So yeah, that's when I got involved.
Yeah.
So I was that that was what I kind of noticed as well.
And I wasn't sure exactly when it happened.
When I first started hearing about the Boogaloo thing, it was just kind of like shit posting and jokes, it seemed to me.
Like in my Facebook group, there'd be people joking around about it.
I'd see it on Twitter a lot, but I never really saw it as a real thing organized in the streets.
I got to be honest, I was always a little skeptical about it.
I thought that the idea of joking around about a second civil war was maybe not the smartest thing.
You know, I mean, it's a pretty serious thing that's pretty bad for a lot of people, no matter how you feel about the government.
And I was concerned about that when I started seeing the people in the streets.
Although, I mean, to be fair, from what I've actually heard from members, it's never what they're being portrayed as, which is often the case with these groups.
But do you, is there anything to that that you think may not be the best, you know, tactical decision to have that name and then be out in the streets with guns?
Aren't you kind of making the corporate press's job a little easy for them?
Yeah, but I mean, like, it, like, obviously the appearing in the streets with the guns has like tactical and like there's, there's reasons for it outside of just imaging and messaging.
I mean, a lot of us have been shot at or tear gassed.
Like, it's, it's real out there.
It's not just, you know, a joke.
But I definitely think like the dark humor of it and kind of the shock value of it, some while it can be unproductive in some ways, also like nobody would be talking about us if it wasn't for that.
It's the same thing with Hawaiian insurance.
It's like, why do you wear the Hawaiian shirts?
It's so stupid.
And it's like, would you care?
Would you care if we didn't?
You know?
Yeah.
Well, look, that's a fair point.
Just to be crystal clear, I'm not, this isn't a, it's not a moral condemnation or something like, I am nobody to be against dark jokes.
I love dark jokes as much as anyone else.
The darker, the better.
I'm just saying that when you are getting into the realm of being kind of, you know, politically active or just activist in nature, it's you got to really be careful about this stuff.
And because you know, it's not a game and people will, if they can find a way to, you know, portray you guys as a violent organization, they will and people will go to jail for a long time.
Right.
And that, that, that definitely like, it screws with normies a lot, but definitely, you know, people like us and people on the ground, they were all like, why are these guys walking around talking about like a second revolution or like immense civil conflict or collapse?
And it's like gestures vaguely at everything, you know, like North Carolina is like out of gas right now.
We've had a year of rioting.
And then obviously also like when you look at kind of everybody's kind of online meme culture, for lack of a better term, like all the anti-fascist people were posting videos about like hanging cops and burning cars.
All the Trump supporters were posting videos about shooting Antifon, running over protesters.
Like everybody was kind of on that energy.
And the media kind of doesn't want to talk about it.
But that's like we came real close last year.
There was a couple moments where it's like, like, you know, you know, obviously like the whole Kenosha thing and a bunch of other stuff where it's like, this could have went sideways real fast, real hard.
And it's just, you know, the normalcy bias of regular people where they do not understand how bad things like really are.
Yeah.
Well, this was kind of like my message to the people on the January 6th who stormed the Capitol and the people who are supportive of them.
And I was just saying like, look, man, I'm like, I'm a hardcore libertarian.
I'm not here defending government buildings.
I don't care about government property.
It's ill-gotten property anyway.
I'm just saying, if you're going to engage in some type of direct conflict with the strongest government in the history of the world, understand that these are the people who will waco your children and not lose sleep at night.
And so just be smart about it.
And it works.
No, I mean, there's these people there are like, you know, farting on Nancy Pelosi's desk and taking selfies and stuff.
Now, okay, it might be stupid when the corporate press insists that this was a coup attempt or something like, you know, something ridiculous.
I've always referred to it as the clown fiesta or the, you know, like Michael Malice said, like the White House tour.
Yeah, but it's, but it's a joke and it's all silly and all that.
But those people are going to end up in jail for decades and they're going to track every last one of them down because it's not something like, say, the Black Lives Matter riots where the corporate press saw it and was like, hey, we can maybe spin this in our favor or use this as like some type of, you know, hedge against Donald Trump or something like that.
This was for them to spin this in their favor.
These are domestic terrorists who need to be crushed.
So my message is just like to all the people who are actually out there doing this stuff.
Just keep that in mind.
Be smart about all of this because you're, this is, this is not a game or it's a game where you're playing for keeps.
Yeah.
I mean, like it was kind of disheartening, but I still find it funny that when I went on Jimmy Dore in the very, like when we were talking about the unity movement and everything, he's like, you know, you remind me a lot of Fred Hampton.
You know what they did to him, right?
And it was like, yeah, I'm very aware.
Like, like, this is definitely play for keeps.
And like, I have, I have friends, several friends that are facing federal prison over bullshit, over thought crimes, over protesting lockdowns.
They're going to be in jail for years.
And I have dead friends, like quite a few dead friends of this movement already over the last year that have, you know, given their life up for this.
And it's, it's not a meme.
A lot of people think, you know, it's a joke.
All those Trump supporters thought it was a joke.
And even a lot of like the normie, more normie, more like college white people, BLM people think it's a joke and they don't realize what's going on because you saw what happened in Brooklyn Center.
Now that Trump's gone, like they were perfectly fine with allowing Minneapolis to go crazy.
But then Brooklyn Center, now it's Joe Biden.
They sent National Guard out there.
They're pointing rifles at people in the car.
They arrested all the journalists.
It's like, yeah, you're not convenient anymore to the Biden administration.
And the smart people in the movement know this and they expect this to come.
But a lot of like the normies that might change their profile to a black square or something are like, what's going on?
Well, that's whenever you have these movements that you always have a mix.
So when it's something like whatever, you know, the stuff going on in Portland or in Seattle or the autonomous zone stuff, right?
Like you've got some people there who are really like devout anarcho-communists who have read a whole bunch of literature and know this.
But that person is outnumbered by a bunch of people who it's just a scene.
Like, this is happening.
We're going to go do this.
This seems awesome.
I'm going to go take Molly and hang out in the fucking, you know, autonomous zone.
And so there's a lot of people who don't get this.
This is what I was trying to say to those people out in Seattle, where it was like, understand that you are doing this because the state is allowing you to.
And if they decided not to, they will, again, like I said, they will lose no sleep over mowing you guys down.
And they could do it like that.
It's not like they don't have the power.
You're not going to win a direct.
So look, if somebody gives their life for some noble cause, I mean, perhaps that's honorable, but you don't want to give your life for no reason.
And so that's, you know, again, that's just kind of what I'm what I'm getting at.
So I wanted to, so you gave that speech that ended up going viral that kind of led to you getting on a lot of these shows.
And what I really liked about the speech, and I think that the Boogaloos at their best, this is kind of what they go for, is that it was not just in effect, but clearly intended to be a paradigm breaking speech, that you were trying to say, like, this movement does not fit into left or right.
It's not, you can't put this into a box and that this is kind of unnecessary.
And I've always thought, and I've expressed this many times.
I think this is the essence of Scott Horton saying, attack the left from the left and the right from the right.
Anytime I'm on cable news or I'm on a podcast or something like that, I always try to get something out to let people know that the whole paradigm is bullshit.
And it's bullshit designed for a purpose.
You know, it's very convenient if you're the rulers to say, hey, you have two choices.
Choice one is you love cops and really care about gun rights.
Choice two is you don't like cops, but you think they're the only ones who should have guns.
Now you pick.
I mean, that's pretty damn convenient if you're supporting the ruling class.
We agree on everything else, though.
Like across the board, uniform and everything else.
But those, it may be abortion, you know, sneak that in.
They'll pretend to care about that sometimes or some shit like that.
But yeah, otherwise, uniform across the board and everything else.
Yeah.
So what like, what do you think has been the result since that speech and going on on all these shows?
Like, is that, am I right about that?
Is that kind of like what the message was to kind of break this paradigm?
Yeah, I mean, we've, we've always been like a post-partisan kind of thing.
We've always like, like a lot of people try to put us on the right where in the beginning, a lot of our kind of conflict, for lack of a better term, was with the right because we've been, you know, we're libertarians and anarchists.
We don't like the cops.
So like the Trump people will be like, all the time I'll have conversations with them.
We're like, oh, yeah, you know, back the blue.
And I'm like, no, I'm not, I'm not on that team.
I'm very opposite to that.
So we've always been kind of this outside thing.
And it hasn't always pushed in this direction.
It was very much an evolution through a lot of very distinct conversations with people and kind of having my mind blown a lot.
Like actually hanging out with a lot of people in the Midwest from like Antifa and like BLM and stuff like that.
And kind of going like, well, I think the news media is full of shit everywhere.
And I'll never believe anything unless I go and see it with my own eyes.
So I went and did that.
And a lot of stuff kind of shook my worldview.
I mean, like you, you even talked about it.
I brought an anti-fascist activist onto Alex Jones and they sat there for like 20 minutes complaining about like the new world order and the great reset and shit.
It's like, you know, so it's like, huh, there's something going on here.
Like there's narratives being pushed on all directions and these, we're being chopped up into these little boxes where we can't do anything.
And the whole point of the Unity Coalition to me was to kind of revive that early Occupy Tea Party anti-war movement that I grew up in that was huge and then just died and went away.
And then now we're all screaming at each other on Twitter about stupid shit that don't matter.
Well, we blow everyone up all across the world.
Yeah, well, I've been talking about this for quite a while.
And my belief in it is that this did not die an organic death and that it was very much propagandized out of people.
And I think from my perspective, I think that's what a lot of the corporate woke shit is all about and has been for the last decade.
100%.
When you see, you know, when you see, it's just, I was even talking about it on a, on, I was on Greg Gutfeld's show last night on Fox News.
And it's, you know, you have to like, you have to think about how you talk about these things on Fox News.
Right.
You got to code switch a little bit.
Well, you got to think what's really going to hit this audience.
Like, right.
Like, that's always what I try to do when I communicate this stuff is I think about what really hit me, like what would hit me if it was said this way.
And then you think about who you're talking to and like, okay, what's going to hit them in that right way?
And I said, like, you know, the woke stuff is all a distraction.
And so if you get caught up just fighting against the woke stuff, then you're also falling for the distraction.
And that's the real tough part that right-wingers don't get is like, if you're just fighting against the woke shit, then you're also missing the point, just like the wokesters are.
So if you see every all of the most powerful people in our society talking about equity, it's just on its face, it doesn't make any sense.
This isn't what every millionaire and billionaire and big corporation and the CIA are all concerned with like the new progressive woke CIA ads.
Yeah, you know, it's just, it just doesn't make any sense.
And so it's like to see that, it's like, okay, they're throwing you off the scent and they're making you focus on all this other shit that divides us rather than what unites us.
And I think you're right that, you know, we may not be united on everything.
I mean, there are certainly some libertarian policies that I'm sure aren't wildly popular.
But the big ones, like stop bailing out banks, stop dropping bombs on third world countries, stop throwing people in jail for victimless nonviolent crimes.
We got super majorities on that.
And they don't want people.
And, you know, the Tea Party and Occupy could probably sit down and I think in fact did in some instances and agree on a lot of really, really important issues.
Yeah.
I mean, you had those famous videos, which was one of my original exposures to libertarianism of Peter Schiff walking around Occupy and like talking to these hippies and everything.
And they're like, wow, you know, we got a lot in common here.
We both hate these motherfuckers.
And like Peter Schiff, multi-millionaire, like, you know, hedge fund guy and then like sweaty, dirty hippie in a tent are talking together.
And I think the establishment saw that and they were fucking horrified.
And I really do believe that all of the woke stuff is an op.
It's, it's deliberately probably in some back rooms talked about and manifested out of nowhere.
And like even the establishment's kind of fallen for it because I always bring this up because it was probably like the funniest moment of last year of like thousands of Black Lives Matter protesters surrounded the CNN headquarters and tried to break into it.
Crypto Investing with iTrust Capital00:02:57
And you had the video of the reporter sitting inside.
And it's like, why are they attacking us?
We're on their side.
It's like, you don't know.
You don't understand what's going on either.
Like you guys have kind of fallen for your own bullshit.
Yeah, no, that's right.
They, they, in some ways, they, many of them really believe, well, we're the champions of anti-racism.
So why would they be coming up against us?
That was an interesting moment.
All right, guys, let's take a quick second.
I want to thank our sponsor for today's show, which is iTrust Capital, an amazing company that you really have to look into.
Everybody knows at this point, crypto has been blowing up.
It's just, there's tons of news out about it.
Everyone, the awareness of crypto has really raised over the last year in a crazy fashion.
And, you know, you can see it all over the corporate press now.
It's not like it used to be.
Now, all the business insiders, they're all talking about it.
The NASDAQ.com has articles about crypto exceeding expectations.
Go check that stuff out.
And if you're interested in investing in crypto, the smart investors are investing with their IRA or 401k retirement accounts.
The easiest way to do that is iTrust Capital.
All iTrust accounts are IRAs, which means you can invest and trade your crypto as well as precious metals tax-free on their 24-7 platform.
If you have an existing IRA or another retirement account, like a 401k, you can roll those over, no penalties, no taxes.
iTrust Capital makes investing in crypto safe and easy.
You can log into your account 24-7 and invest at the push of a button.
Now crypto can be traded as easily as stocks.
No keys or complex processes.
iTrust Capital also makes investing in physical gold and silver easy.
iTrust uses a blockchain ledger that gives you digital ownership of physical gold held at the Royal Canadian Mint.
It's not a security or a derivative or a future or some other financial contract.
This is fully backed by physical gold that is deliverable upon request.
And the best part of all, iTrust Capital has low transparent pricing that is 90% cheaper than their competitors.
So one more time, if you're looking for an IRA to trade crypto or precious metals tax-free, go to iTrustCapital.com, use the promo code POTP.
You'll get your first month absolutely free, plus a free crypto IRA and gold IRA investors guide.
One more time, iTrustCapital.com, promo code POTP for your first month free and receive a free crypto IRA and gold IRA investors guide.
Plus, if you're more interested, I had a brief conversation with the CEO of the company, who's a great guy.
It's up on the Gas Digital sponsor page.
So you can go check that out.
iTrustcapital.com, promo code P-O-T-P.
All right, let's get back into the show.
There's this old story of Murray Rothbard.
I guess when he was in college, they set up, he was like the big capitalist, you know, free market guy.
Empathizing with Antifa Elements00:15:29
And they, there was like some other college kid who was like the big communist intellectual.
And they organized this meeting of the two of them.
And they said all of their camps were like, oh, this is going to be a SmackDown.
And then they said they just talked for like an hour and agreed on a ton of stuff and just sat there.
And like basically, you know, they were both anarchists, essentially.
And so they said, and then Murray Rothbard basically said, you know, we agreed on like 90% of the things.
And then I bet basically just left it with like talking to this communist and was like, I don't know, you know, you want the state to wither away.
I don't think building it up to be as big as possible is really the way to do that, but like, whatever, I don't know, you know, and that, but it's interesting that there are these kind of commonalities between a lot of elements, not all elements, but a lot of elements of what's considered the right and the left that, you know, it seems very carefully constructed to make sure that we never really start talking about those things.
Yeah.
And any opportunity or kind of group that rises up to do it, you see them kind of crushed down.
I've said it before that like when people are like, is unity the best thing?
Is like libertarians and communists and like paleo-conservatives and Jimmy Door liberal type, like all these people getting together, is this a good thing?
And I just look at what scared, what seems to scare the government the most.
Because if you go back, like the FBI and the CIA and stuff like that, they didn't like Fred Hampton or Malcolm X, but they didn't like they weren't really super after them until they started talking about talking to white people in unity.
And then they died.
And then you had Occupy.
And then obviously like with me and the whole like Boogaloo thing, nobody talked about us.
The media did not care.
They just pretended we didn't exist until pictures of us with Black Lives Matter protesters started coming out.
And then it was full court press.
Every journalistic outlet, every government agency, my friend was played at the impeachment videos of my friend.
My face has been in DHS memos and I haven't done anything.
All I've did is sit on the street and said, hey, don't hate people and work together.
But they seem terrified of that.
So it's like, well, that has to be the path forward then because, you know, they're not scared of me alone or you alone or Jimmy Door alone or any of these people.
But the moment we start talking to each other, the moment Jimmy went on Tucker Carlson and was talking about Jillian Assange and stuff, they panic.
So it's like, that has to be the way forward here because they don't mind the woke versus anti-woke shit.
We did that for four years.
And you're right to where that kind of just killed everything because I had an epiphany like a year after Jillian Assange got taken out of the embassy of I was sitting there and I forget whatever the thing at the time, maybe like Captain Marvel or some shit, everybody was complaining on the internet.
I kind of just stopped and it dawned on me.
I'm like, wow, like I have no idea what's going on with Jillian Assange and nobody's talking about this.
They just grabbed this guy out of the embassy and he's fucking disappeared.
He could be dead and nobody's talking about it.
Like, this is weird.
Is this all bullshit?
And it's like, yeah, it is all bullshit.
Right, right.
And from what I've heard, they've basically driven this guy insane.
They're trying to kill him, essentially.
It's a real sad story, which in a sense, you know, you drive somebody crazy and you kind of have killed them already, whether he's dead or alive.
I mean, that's, you know, kind of taking someone's life.
Yeah, he's denied legal counsel.
He doesn't get phone calls.
He's in solitary.
It's, it's a mess.
Yeah.
I mean, look, my, my thought with, um, in terms of like the whole unity stuff is in terms of working with like hardcore leftists, hardcore commies or something like that.
I mean, I'm, I'm open to coalition, uh, coalitioning on issues we agree on.
Um, you know, so as far and luckily for libertarians, all of the most important issues are stopping the government from doing bad shit.
So any of that, you know, if anyone wants to work on it, it's fine.
But I do feel a little bit conflicted where it's like, yeah, I mean, if your, you know, like main issues are like, you know, giving the government complete control over the healthcare industry or giving the government complete control over the banking industry or giving government complete control over any other thing.
Yeah, I mean, that's going to be impossible for me to work with someone because I really think that a lot of these lefties just don't understand how dangerous that is.
It's one of the things Gene Epstein has debated a couple of these democratic socialists and he always tries to hammer this home.
I don't think it ever resonates with them just when they're talking about the state running the finance.
It's like, oh, yeah, you can be against the big banks, but if your answer is like some type of nationalization of the banks, like, do you understand what that actually means in reality?
That if you have any dissident publication that you want to start, you have to go to the government for permission to start it.
I mean, that's the whole game right there.
So I'm open to the unity idea, but I am a little bit skeptical about leftists who support government authority.
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely just like you have to pick and choose your battles because a lot of a lot of the way, like it was Murray Bookchin, he put it perfectly that the issue with a lot of things is that we try to predict how things are going to be later based off of how things are now and not considering that if we change things now, then that might not be the problem later.
And like a lot of people's worldview is based off of what we have now of this giant Federal Reserve banking system, all of these wars, this insane police force that like is super unprecedented.
Michael Malice has brought it up, but if you actually go and read like a lot of like Jewish and like Russian literature during that whole period in the 40s, they always describe that when the Stasi or anything would come to people's houses, they would be afraid to hear the doorbell.
They never, there's no literature about them just kicking doors in and shooting people.
So like Malice said it perfectly.
He's like, even in Soviet Russia, they rang the doorbell first, but we have no knock police raids.
So it's like, that's, that's how fucked that is.
So like, if we can solve all of these problems, then who knows how anyone, you know, even myself, you, these, these leftists or whatever, are going to feel about these issues when you don't have this giant boot on our fucking neck that's just destroying the country and destroying a lot of the planet even.
Like if you look like your conversation with Tim Poole, you know, I commented on it.
We talked on Twitter about it a lot of, yeah, America is really like great and we're like kind of bougie and we have a lot of like, you know, we have a high standard of living or everything, but we only have that because anytime some like foreign government tries to say that our money is all fake and bullshit, we bomb them into the Bronze Age.
You know, look at Libya.
So it's like, it's fake.
Like a lot of this is fake and a lot of people are getting crushed underneath this and we know it's fake and it's all kind of a giant kettle.
And if we actually might start poking some holes in this balloon and letting some air out before it all pops and we have a civil war or a collapse or something, maybe people's minds will change there.
So that's, you know, that's, that's one way I feel about it.
And then there's also just, you know, I don't talk about economics with socialists.
You know, that's the secret to unity is just don't don't fucking bring it up.
Yeah, I mean, I understand what you're saying, but that's kind of an issue.
I mean, economics are very important.
And if you, you know, like that's that, it makes it kind of hard because if you give away that, you really give away the whole game of freedom.
So that's my, that's my concern.
Yeah, to your point about what I was speaking about with Tim Poole, I thought it was an interesting moment.
And I think you're on to something there.
I mean, the point that I was making was that you can say, which is quite often the response to Tim Poole, because I was trying to say, like, look, let's like empathize a little bit, even with the elements of like Antifa that I just find disgusting, you know, just destroying property and harassing people and trying to shut down events because like Jordan Peterson is speaking or something like that.
I mean, I just believe I have very there's that whole group of idiots that surrounded Rand Paul and was yelling to say Breonna Taylor's name when he put the fucking Justice for Breonna Taylor act in.
Like, yeah, even as like parts of me are rehilitating parts of anti-FADA people never will deny that there's tons of shit stains.
And same thing with the Trump supporters and shit.
There's there's tons of shit stains.
And like you cannot have an honest discourse about all this unless you own that.
And the type of people I will work with are never the people that are like, antifod has never hurt anybody.
Like they're aware in their own movement, they're aware of cowboys and assholes.
And if you can't admit that, then I definitely can't work with you, you know?
Yeah.
And I mean, look, I'm about as libertarian as anyone on the planet.
But if you're smacking someone over the head with a bike lock or jumping people from behind, I hope you go to fucking prison.
I mean, I hope bad things happen to you.
Like there's got to be some type of punishment for that.
In the same way that I, it's the, it's the essence of the reason I hate the state is because they initiate violence against peaceful people.
And if you're doing that, then, but I was just saying on the Tim Poole show where I was like, look, if we want to just analyze this, what do we have here?
We have young men who have been given basically nothing of meaning in their life.
They've been put on fucking Riddling probably since they were eight years old.
They go to college.
They have nothing but debt.
They work at Starbucks.
They live in their mother's basement with no prospects of owning a home, providing for a wife, anything like this.
And this is a recipe for disaster.
And his retort was kind of like, yeah, but look, we have a higher standard of living than anywhere else in history, which is, you know, okay, it is a fair point.
But to me, particularly being a husband and a father, it's just made me realize that it's like, look, don't get me wrong.
I enjoy the level of technology that we have.
I enjoy, I'm glad that I live a more comfortable life than my grandfather did.
And I'm glad that like I have, you know, a nice car and a nice refrigerator and nice central air conditioning and all of this stuff.
I'd rather not give it up.
But if the choice was to give all of that up or give up being able to be a husband and a father, it's very easy choice to make.
In terms of what would really make my life worth living and not, it's like, no, that's where I get meaning and deep joy from.
And I think the fact that government policies, and again, this is why you have to understand economics, but the fact that government policies have tremendously inflated the cost of education, the cost of owning a home, the cost of healthcare, the cost of daycare, the cost of basically everything that you need in order to take care of a family, I think has like really destroyed the soul of America.
Now, the point you're making is slightly different, but I think there's also truth to that, that there is some feeling also that we're the bad guys.
There's not really a view that us as a society are noble and good.
And I think that destroys the soul of the country as well.
Yeah, this is definitely like a double threat.
And, you know, I brought it up before that like another thing I really focus on in the Unity Coalition is just community because the community is kind of dead in America.
Like it really, really is.
Like I've literally witnessed with my own eyes, like the local baseball game that just everyone comes out to get smaller and smaller every year.
You're seeing less volunteering within their community.
You're seeing less local co-ops or local, you know, like little festivals or anything.
That's all withering away.
And you have that on the family front.
You have that on the community front.
And then you add on to that, are we the bad guys kind of thing?
And you have these people that are sitting there watching all this go down.
And then like you'll have people like Tim or whatever where to that I say they were they were drinking out of you know golden chalices in Rome as it burned to the ground.
You know, like, so the idea of everything's fine because of kind of superficial stuff, you're right.
That it doesn't mean anything.
And it comes to that kind of normalcy bias I feel like a lot of people are stuck in, where they're like, well, I'm great.
I'm sitting in a warm house.
I'm talking to a box with someone like across the country.
I'm well fed or everything.
Nothing could be going wrong elsewhere to where like you can look at videos of like Palestine last night and there's people that are watching soccer while bombs are landing like five miles away.
You know, like your bubble of normalcy can remain normal for a very long time, you know, despite what's going around you and it still be awful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I agree with that.
And I do think that it's a it's a tough thing to put succinctly, but there's just a lot more to life.
There's a lot more to life than just wealth.
And wealth is great.
I'm not like, it's not something where I go like, oh, that's bad that we have all these things.
I think it's great.
I think they don't have to go hand in hand.
Oftentimes people make the argument that it's like, well, this is just what happens when a society gets too rich.
And I don't really know.
The end-prim argument, the return to monkey argument.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't, I don't buy any of that at all.
I mean, it's like, no, like, don't, you know, I've mentioned this before on the show, but my, my wife's cousin, they had a baby, very premature.
The baby was a pound and a half when it was born.
Baby's fine, doing great.
That's how good medical technology has gotten.
And this is just 20 years ago.
This baby wouldn't have made it, you know?
And now little boy is fine.
He's doing great.
He's healthy.
He's running around.
He's playing.
And like, so you can make whatever anarcho-primitive argument you want to.
Nothing's more important to me than that.
Now, I don't care what other problems come along with it.
There's baby dead versus baby alive.
There you go.
Technology good.
Wealth good.
So it's, you know, there's now there's, but there are other issues in our society.
And I think that it's very hard for people, you know, if you're, I've experienced this, that if you're critical of aspects of our society, particularly the degeneracy and the lack of families and the lack of communities, people lump you into this, like, oh, you're a social conservative.
And that somehow that has to go hand in hand with like, you hate gay people or you're racist or something like that.
You want to return to the 1950s.
And it's just kind of like, no, I just don't really think it's healthy or sustainable that everyone on Instagram is like pulling their ass out and that everybody, like communities are broken up.
Yeah.
Like this isn't a good world to raise kids in.
Right.
Like it's it's not a condemnation of the people at all.
Like don't get me wrong.
Like I have a lot of friends in the sex industry, like sex work industry.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
I don't think it makes you less of a person.
None of that.
So you put all that aside.
But it is kind of fucked up that I don't have a single female friend that doesn't have an OnlyFans.
It's like, I think that's a condemnation of society, not them.
They're doing what they have to do.
They're hustling.
It's the same reason why when people cheat on welfare or whatever like that, I'm like, well, that's that's the welfare system's fucked.
It's not that person, you know?
Yeah, I kind of agree with that.
I don't, I'm not condemning that person.
I actually, I feel kind of bad for them.
I think it's a situation I would never want a woman I care about to be in.
So I, you know, it's, it's, um, in many ways, perhaps they're victims of the system.
And look, there might be some of them who say, I love doing this and it's empowering and all that.
And hey, who am I to impose my will on them?
But I can't have my, you know, they can't impose their will on me either.
And I can't have my take on it.
And so, yeah, I just, I don't think this is healthy on a societal level.
I don't think that's who you want young girls looking up to.
All right, guys, let's take a quick second.
I want to thank our sponsor for today's show, which is SSP eyewear.
SSP eyewear makes the best protective eyewear for shooting.
They sent me the Met How kit, and I have to tell you about these.
They fit comfortably.
They have different lenses so you can optimize your visibility while shooting in different conditions.
They're anti-fog.
The frame is flexible and extremely durable.
They ran it over with a truck and it didn't break.
These things are incredible.
They're high-quality lenses that are going to protect your eyes when shooting and improve your vision clarity.
I'd really love to get more gun sponsors on this show.
Defining True Wokeism00:16:14
So make sure you go support these guys.
Support SSP eyewear.
If you use the promo code POTP, you're going to get 20% off.
It's a great product.
So thank you to SSP Eyewear for being our first firearm accessory to sponsor the show.
Go use promo code P-O-T-P, get 20% off.
Help us give these guys a real boost so we get some more of these gun companies coming in and supporting us.
The link is in the description.
sspiwear.com.
All right, let's get back into it.
It's so weird to me that like there's like, if you talk about community and building up like the community and having like all these structures or whatever, that like people on the left go after you, only the stupid ones, because I have these conversations with left, like left-wingers all the time, like Black Panthers and stuff like that.
And that's the whole thing they're about is like community, because I hate to break it to some of these like woke Twitter people, but the one of the root words of communism is community, you know, like that awkward detail there.
Like you can't have these weird, nebulous, very loose stitched kind of groups on the internet and run a culture on that.
Like every single one of your authors and founders and everything that you base your worldview off would look at you and be fucking horrified at like that kind of like you have to have a community structure.
Well, it's funny because the thing about, you know, when you say the people on the left who argue with you against this stuff, and I've been trying to make this point, I think me and you had an exchange on Twitter where we were talking about this, where you were differentiating between left libertarians and the woke libertarians.
And I think that's a really important distinction.
I was talking about that on my last appearance on Tom Woods.
And I say that I have to admit, I've fucked up on this and muddied that distinction before.
But in the same sense that like, if you were just broadly speaking about the right wing from like a normie perspective, right?
You could consider John McCain a right-winger.
You could consider Pat Buchanan a right-winger.
You could consider Richard Spencer a right-winger.
You could consider Ron Paul a right-winger.
Now, these are wildly different people that have very little in common and are quite often like completely diametrically opposed to each other.
And just for people to realize, this also goes on on the left.
And this, the woke thing, which its intellectual roots in the left come from like the Frankfurt School, the postmodernists, critical theory, all of that stuff, right?
That's one little strand of the left that many others on the left hated.
Like Noam Chomsky hated the postmodernists.
He was like, this whole thing is stupid.
It was like way back in the day.
And he's a million times smarter than most of these postmodernists are.
And like, there's all these different schools on the left that don't buy into this.
And now the woke stuff lately has been completely corporatized and jumped on by every powerful organization for the reasons we were talking about before.
But it's not as simple as like the idea that a leftist shouldn't care about community is bonkers.
That's like been one of the most important values to leftists for hundreds of years.
Yeah.
That means like, look, look at old Soviet and like, you know, Chinese like communist propaganda.
And it's always like a bunch of families and like people like holding hands and hanging out and working the fields together and everything.
And now it's like, no, that's all they talk about that.
You're a dirty right winger.
And it's like, what?
That doesn't make any fucking sense to me.
And it gets you to surreal moments, especially now that I'm kind of like more engrossed in the left and I see like this from like firsthand and see a lot of the inner workings and inner drama and stuff to where you'll have like my friend Unholy Rome.
He's a Detroit-based communist.
All this dude does is feed homeless people.
He literally just raises money and like wanders around Detroit and feeds homeless people.
And he will invite anybody.
He doesn't care if you're a right winger.
He doesn't care anything.
He's like, come out.
I don't give a shit about your politics.
Let's help the homeless people.
And he gets annihilated on Twitter by like white upper class, like, you know, leftist, quote unquote, big air quote progressive types.
And it's like, what is going on here?
Like you have, you have this, this lady that's in like a picture of her nice car with her mask on, of course, because, you know, progressives on Twitter sitting there screaming at a poor black man in Detroit saying that like he's a bad person.
And it's like, that's, that's like, that's the wokeism.
That, that shit rots your fucking brain.
Well, this is right.
So here's the other thing, right?
And I said this last night on on Fox News as well.
And this was, and I tried to be respectful about it.
But, you know, this is the problem, right?
And this is the fight that they get between the left and the right.
So the topics that were coming up were there was the Golden Globes, I guess, were canceled or dropped from NBC because they weren't diverse enough.
And then there was some article about the Dewey decimal system in the library being racist.
And so we should switch that system.
Now, of course, from the Fox News perspective, why they love to talk about this stuff is to go, look what idiots these fucking progressives are for pushing all of this.
And, you know, you have to at least go, okay, I mean, that's, you have a race.
It's some clown world shit.
It's preposterous.
It's easy to sit there and point at that.
But then one of the women on the panel goes, man, she goes, I feel bad for you white guys.
This is a tough time to be a white guy.
And I, look, I understand.
And I've made this point myself.
I understand that.
Yes, like rhetorically in this woke world, straight white men have become the only group that it is completely socially acceptable to just trash publicly.
And that's not okay.
Like, I'm not for that.
The same way I wouldn't be okay with that if we decided any group was the group that it's okay to trash because of immutable characteristics.
I just, that's wrong and it's racism.
And I'll speak up against it.
But I made the point on the show, I didn't say all this, but I made the point where I was like, look, I was just on the Amtrak the other day going down to Washington, D.C.
I go, I'm sure everyone here has taken that because it's Fox News.
Every single person has taken the New York to Washington, D.C. Amtrak before.
And I go, you know, right before you get into Baltimore, Penn Station, that part where the train's outside and you're overlooking the war zone, like literally the war zone, the third world country that is inner city Baltimore with just condemned houses, buildings falling apart.
I mean, trash on the street.
Like it's, it's not the same country as what my daughter grows up in.
That's what those people are living through.
That's what their kids are living through.
So to say like, oh, I feel really bad for white guys in this society, you're like, well, okay, let's keep some perspective.
To an extent, okay, like slow it down.
Pump this.
As dumb as this, all this mainstream narrative is, and as wrong as it is to just demonize white men, let's get real about who the real victims here in the society are.
And there are some white men who fall into that category.
But those guys, the point is that canceling the Golden Globes or the Dewey Decimal System does nothing to help those kids that are there.
This is all just something that makes upper middle class and upper class white women feel good about themselves.
This does nothing to actually help those people.
So a leftist who's actually going out and trying to help the homeless or something like that, I have infinitely more respect for than somebody who's on either side of the woke culture war.
Yeah.
And like you, you see that even like within activism, because I have a perfect example of this of on the year anniversary of Breonna Taylor's death, we had an event in Louisville and it was two separate events.
The first event that all of us were at was like they had speakers from like local politicians there and there was a whole bunch of normies and it was the daytime and everything.
Cops didn't bother with that at all.
Nobody got tear gas.
All the white college kids came out, got their picture with Instagram, went home.
That was fine.
Later that night, we went and continued to protest and we were on the side of the road and we had 300 fucking riot cops deployed on us because that was just the community protest that had nothing to do with people from DC.
There was no big names.
That was just the local activists and they deployed 300 riot cops on us.
So it's like that, that's the difference between like the performative woke activism and like the people that actually want to get things done.
Because like the, like you said, the media will platform and make a big deal out of whatever they can get out of it.
If they care about it, if they can twist it, then that's when you hear about it.
To where I've traveled all over these BLM events and I've heard names of people that like you never hear about like because every local community has their own problems, their own issues.
And a lot of these people are apolitical.
Like they're not even participating in all these high-minded debates like we are.
They're like, well, someone killed my fucking son.
You know, like I'm mad.
I don't care about anything else outside of that.
And you definitely see like, you know, Anthony Hulan, Alexander Rios, Casey Goodson, Daniel Shaver, like all these, all these people that get no attention, like we've been going out and having events with them.
And the BLM people come with us.
And these are white people.
So it's like, you see that on both sides of there's the corporate woke like activism.
And then there's like the people that actually like give a shit about all of this.
Yeah.
Well, I've, I've said for a while now that I, I think in many ways, what the most powerful thing that Black Lives Matter could do is that and do it on a more national level of raising awareness for these incidents.
Like Daniel Shaver is the perfect one.
I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a more vicious murder by police on camera ever.
I mean, the guy's on his knees begging for his life and is executed.
And they should be showing those things and saying, hey, these cops do this to white people too.
And we're just as outraged when it happens to you.
And stop, you know, then it's not a white versus black thing.
It's a citizen versus cops thing.
It's a natural rights versus those who violate them thing.
And on the other side, I think that all the like gun rights, you know, right-wingers should be standing up every time some black kid is thrown in jail for the crime of a gun possession.
Because it's like, no, motherfucker, we believe in the Second Amendment for you too.
And that's, and this is if you really wanted to get a huge movement going to support the thing that you're already there to support.
This to me would be the way to do it.
Yeah, that was the Breonna Taylor thing.
That's why it was such a flashpoint.
And why in Louisville, you have like three percenters, Black Panthers, NFAC, us, like all, like all these people on the streets together.
And also why the media stopped talking about Breonna Taylor because that was a gun rights issue as well.
That was a police brutality issue.
That was a race issue.
Like this.
Drug drug.
Yeah, drug war issue.
Like that hits every single bullet point.
And, you know, like that's kind of what I mean too, of the public-facing corporate approved Twitter BLM movement doesn't talk about Daniel Shaver, doesn't talk about Anthony Hulin, who died the same way George Floyd did in Michigan in jail the exact same way.
And nobody talked about him.
But the local activists do.
The local activists show up.
And one of like the break the mentality to like realize you're being lied to things I always tell people is if you watch all these, like all of the mainstream coverage of the BLM protests, you'll notice that they never actually speak to an organizer ever.
They never put a camera in front of an organizer.
Because if you go, again, you know, bringing up Louisville, half the speeches on that stage were like, fuck Joe Biden, fuck the DNC, like, you know, because they don't, they don't want you to see that.
That, that's the awkward part, you know?
So definitely like there is there, like they, they will fight for like white people and post-partisan stuff as the local activists.
But the national organization, the corporate thing, they, they feed off of that division and they'll never bring that up.
Well, it seemed like over the last summer, the vast majority of the corporate press, with some exceptions, I suppose Fox News is an exception, but the vast majority of the corporate press was trying to downplay the violence on the streets.
And if they talked about it, it was always, you know, white supremacists or something like that.
Like maybe the Boogaloos, they'd be happy to talk about it.
Oh, yeah, they or something.
They accuse us of causing every goddamn fucking riot and every burnt building as us.
We're like the national boogeyman for both the left and the right.
Yeah.
It's ridiculous.
But I will say that there, look, there's no question just in the reality.
I mean, there was tremendous violence last summer and there was the amount of like, I mean, people were murdered, people were violently assaulted, property damage in the billions.
I mean, to me, and as I was saying all of last year, I think that that is, I mean, on top of just being outrageously wrong, that's about the worst thing that could happen if you actually want to get a movement going.
So I don't know, you know, I under, like, obviously I'm not saying you are responsible for everybody else and what they do, but I think that these movements have to find a way to police their own people or this, the whole thing is not only not going to work, but it will cause more damage than good.
And that kind of just kind of like runs into one of the biggest problems with how we handle these entire situations in general in this country.
We're like, again, like I always prefer that I'm doing damage control.
I will admit I do damage control, but there's undeniable shit that has happened.
There's wrong things that have happened and they can't shake it off or lie about it.
They did.
But in general, I always bring up the example of Kenosha because I had people that were there that were actually like at that gas station trying to break up Trump supporters and BLM people and desperately try to stop what happened.
And they've described the situation to me of the gas stations are like a mile down from the courthouse.
All the BLM activists are at the courthouse fighting with the cops.
And almost all of the cops are at the courthouse fighting with the BLM activists.
So that's all the resources tied up right there.
And all around that, you just have wandering people just doing whatever the hell they want.
And there's nobody there to stop them.
And they have nothing really even to do with the pro like, they'll yell George Floyd into a camera, but they don't even know why the fuck they're there.
And I always describe it as if you think about bar fight Kyle that goes to the club every Saturday for the last year and like hits on some guy's girlfriend and gets into a fist fight.
He hadn't done that for like an entire year because of the lockdowns.
He's been trapped inside.
No sporting games, nothing.
And he sees a crowd of people walking by and the cops start fighting him and he goes, you know what, let's go tear some shit up.
So like there's, there's obviously that element.
And then also there is the element that it doesn't happen nearly as much as people claim, but there are like antagonists and infiltrators and stuff like that.
Doesn't have to be from the right.
It could be people from like opposing left-wing movements or the cops or like anything of people that do kind of want shit to kick off and they'll show up and they'll cause problems.
They'll instigate fights.
You know, even within the movement, like I said, they use the term within it of like cowboys of people that show up that just want to cause problems.
Like they don't really care about the movement or the message.
They just want to go scream at a right winger or like get into a cop's face or something like that.
And it's a mess.
Look, I don't deny that that's probably happening.
And I'm sure there are some infiltrators, you know?
But when you're talking about like billions of dollars.
No, yeah.
That's why I said there's there's undeniable stuff that has but I but even beyond that, I mean, when you see these violent riots in cities across the country, I mean, really on like a massive scale, are you not, if you're out there in the protest and these people are taking cover from the protest and then, you know what I mean, ransacking businesses and beating people up and stuff.
And I agree with you completely.
Much of it was reaction to the lockdowns.
But do you worry that then when you're out there protesting, you are still kind of giving cover to these violent thugs?
Like it's like this is kind of what they need in order to then be able to, you know, rally.
And then you have people at the at the national level, certainly in Black Lives Matter who do nothing but make excuses for the people who are committing violence.
And to me, that just that rings too much like in the same way that like 9-11 doesn't justify invading Iraq because they didn't do that.
It doesn't matter how traumatized you were or how upset you were about what someone did to you.
You can't just go, you know, kill innocent people and blow up their cities.
Controlling Extremist Movements00:02:09
And in the same sense, it's like no matter what the cops did to someone, you can't just go terrorize some local business owner.
You know, like that stuff just makes my blood boil.
Yeah.
No, I agree 100% on that.
And that's kind of like the other element of our organization.
And then also some of like the Black Panther groups and even like some John Brown gun club type people of that's kind of been the, even though I hate to use the word, but for lack of better term, the policing within these kind of things, because I always bring it up, but the first night in Detroit, one of my best friends, you know, Tim Teigen, he was there within an hour of each other.
He rendered first aid to a young black man that was shot and killed in a drive-by.
Like a dude just went to the protest and just lit up like, and then immediately like immediately like stood between riot cops and protesters and kept the riot cops from tear gassing them over nothing and helped local protesters grab these dudes that were trying to break into an apartment building in the middle of the protest.
And that all happened within an hour of each other.
So it's like you have to, and you have seen moments of like where people will step up and be like, no, don't do that.
But you also do see that there's elements within all of these movements that get mad at that.
They don't, they don't like to see that that's being prevented because they're trying, you're right, they're trying to use these protests as cover to fuck stuff up.
And you even see it on the right wing of like where you'll have certain proud boys or certain like militia dudes where their own guys have to hold them back because it's like, bro, like, are you, are you here to, you know, protect this property or whatever?
Or are you here to try to instigate some college kid to get into a fist fight with you so you can fucking shoot him?
Like, you know, why are you really here?
So you see a lot of that.
And it's just, it's some total fog of war, like cluster fuck stuff.
But also like another criticism of it is we, you gotta, you also gotta put it in the context that we're the culture that like a homeless man gets beat up on a train and everybody films it instead of doing something about it.
And that's definitely a part of it too of like, oh, why are all these BLM people like stopping this one dude who's like banging on the window of like a shoe store?
It's like, that's kind of everybody, like, that's kind of like our culture right now.
Like people are getting beat in the street and everyone stops and pulls out the camera and watches it instead of helping them.
It's like, it's fucked.
I don't, I don't disagree with you, but like, that's an important detail to think about.
Vaccine Outposts at Bars00:03:23
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, look, I do think that, you know, what it all comes back to to me is just that, you know, the people in charge completely fucked over the country and that everything basically has spun out since then.
And it's, it's unfortunate in many ways to see, but this is what happens.
Like stability in a society is a very important thing.
And when the moderate center are the most extreme radicals out there, they lose any ability to kind of rein in extremists.
Yeah, that would, that had, that had to be probably like one of your biggest knock it out of the fucking park moment was making that analogy of like, yeah, like everyone says I'm a crazy radical extremist.
I literally want like my community to like not be taxed to death and leave each other alone and just like hang out and vibe.
I'm the crazy extremist.
But the bomb 16 countries, tax everyone to death, put microchips in people.
Bill Gates tried to block the sun in Sweden and they had to tell them no.
Like I'm the radical.
I'm the crazy person.
Like, are you, are you kidding me?
They're, they're setting up vaccine outposts outside of bars and trying to convince drunk people to get the fucking vaccine.
Like, and I'm the radical.
I'm the crazy person.
Like, like, no, it's ridiculous.
And you're absolutely right that like things have gone so far sideways and people kind of don't, the normalcy bias, again, like, I'll keep hitting on that, has set in so hard where if I went a year ago and I was like, hey, Dave, like they're going to lock the entire country in their homes.
They're going to like reignite a bunch of wars.
They're going to just last night create a whole new branch of the Department of Homeland Security for domestic terrorism and that the Capitol is going to be stormed and occupied by a shirtless man in a Viking hat.
You would look at me like I'm high.
You'd be like, shut the fuck up.
Come on, Magnus.
This is going to be at least five years before here we are.
All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Blue Chew.
Blue Chew is making waves and bringing more confidence in the bedroom to men.
They offer chewable tablets that can help men fight ED.
Blue Chew is a unique online service that delivers the same active ingredient as Viagra and Cialis, but in a chewable form and at a fraction of the cost.
Blue Chew tablets help men achieve harder, stronger erections to combat all forms of erectile dysfunction.
Blue Chew is an online prescription service.
So there's no visits to the doctor's office, no awkward conversation, no waiting in line at a pharmacy.
It ships directly to your door in a discrete package.
The process is simple.
You sign up at bluechew.com, consult with one of their licensed medical providers, and once you're approved, you'll receive your prescription within days.
The best part, it's all done online.
Blue Chew's licensed medical providers work with you to find the right ingredient and strength for your prescription.
Don't like swallowing pills.
No problems here.
Blue Chew's Sildenophil and Tadalophil tablets are chewable.
Blue Chew's tablets are made in the USA and they prepare and ship direct.
So it's cheaper than a pharmacy.
So if you could benefit from a little extra confidence in the bedroom, go to bluechew.com for more details and important safety information.
And here's a special deal for our listeners: try Blue Chew free when you use our promo code problem at checkout.
Just pay $5 shipping.
That's bluechew.com, promo code problem to receive your first month free.
Libertarian Culture War Tactics00:15:32
All right, let's get back into the show.
You know, I've been saying over the last year, right?
Like for a while, I was saying, well, the creepiest thing is how quickly they were able to get Americans to give up every social norm that we have, every ounce of assumed individual liberty.
And, you know, me and you may have a more compared to the average person, a more radical version of what individualist libertarianism, you know, what individual liberty should be.
But even to the average American, they kind of had this feeling of like, well, we're a free country.
I mean, if I want to go work here, I can work here.
If I want to go to the movies, I can do that.
And that you would just give all of that up.
Literally, it was like a couple weeks of fear propaganda before everyone gave it up and then were able.
But right now, you know, I've been talking about that for a while, but now what's really freaking me out.
And I'm going to talk about this on my next episode a bit.
But like, so they, they just, there's actually a lot of interesting stuff on the COVID front that just happened and even in the mainstream corporate press.
So the New York Times just ran this piece where they even they acknowledge they go in the entire world in the tens of millions of cases of COVID, there is not one documented case of COVID where someone caught it from a casual outdoor encounter, like walking by someone in a street or sitting in a restaurant or something like that.
You know, it's all been from sustained one-on-one contact and almost they estimate that 0.1% of it was outdoors.
And yet I'm in New York City the other day and everyone outside has a mask on.
And it's not, so now it's just like, oh, so now that we gave this all up, people just won't pull out of it.
It's like they got used to that.
Like that's the normal now.
You have vaccinated people wearing masks outdoors.
They sent that messaging too early.
What it was like three months in?
They were using that new normal, new normal, new normal.
And that it's stuck in some people's brains.
And shaming people.
If you remember the NBC reporter who's like, look at this guy not wearing a mask.
And they're outdoor.
You know, is the one where he goes, hey, your cameraman's not wearing a mask.
And he wasn't, which is great.
But, you know, like this, this idea that you're like, guys, this is, it's all, this is all pseudoscience and none of this is real.
I mean, like, it's, it's, you know, can you imagine if you had told Americans back in March of 2020 that like, hey, the lockdowns are going to do nothing to mitigate the virus.
You don't have to wipe down your groceries because you can't catch it from surfaces.
Wearing masks outside does nothing.
Wearing masks inside in most situations is stupid too.
Like all of the, if Americans just knew all of that, you know, it would have been impossible to get them in this predicament.
But now a year later, even if we do know all of it, it's like, well, I don't know.
We're kind of used to this now.
Yeah, this is just how it is.
I'm used to having my tan line from my mask on my face and all this weird shit.
But definitely like, and it, it, it, like, you and Pete Cojones and like a lot of the Mises people, like, you do hit on something perfect, though, of like, us as libertarians, like, drop the fucking ball hardcore.
And like, I can say that more than anybody because, like, like I've mentioned, we like a couple months into the lockdowns, were going to business owners that refused to be locked down and stood outside of their buildings with guns and told, like, the, like, come and shut it down.
Like, that's libertarian shit.
We went out and did libertarian shit.
I have two separate friends that are facing a long time in prison for doing that.
And I did that myself.
And you didn't see anything like that, really.
Like the conservatives cucked out like super hard on all of this.
Infamously in Michigan, we had that, the famous caravan that went through like Lansing and like protest the lockdown.
We were originally invited to that and we were kicked out because we were like, just open your businesses back up.
Like, you know, you're your flower shop that's going out, your hunting supply store that got shut down because they deemed that hunting isn't essential for like a lot of people that are subsistent based in northern Michigan.
And they got all shocked when people showed up to the Capitol with guns.
You know, it's like, it's like, okay, let's stand up.
Let's do this.
And nobody did anything.
Nobody really like put their money where their mouth is.
And that's kind of like another thing I've been running around screaming at people so much is like libertarians need to, I get that we're kind of like autistic, anti-social, like hyper political, annoying people.
I love all of us.
That's how we are.
But like we need to start like getting out and doing libertarian stuff.
Like Dan Berman, how he's smuggling insulin from fucking Mexico and selling it to people at cost to show how stupid our medical system is.
The whole thing I'm doing with like the Boogaloo and stuff like that.
You know, my, my friend Naomi, she's on the college campuses and she sets up like free pop brownie stands to like advocate decriminalizing drugs.
And then the cops will come and like detain her because they think they're pop brownies and they're regular, you know, regular brownies.
Like start do like libertarian activism needs to come back into the fucking world.
Like we need to start getting out and being visible in the world and doing stuff outside of just appearing every four years for election, being like, hey, both guys suck and then disappearing for four years again.
Yeah, I look, I understand what you're saying.
I would not advise anybody to do anything that can get them thrown in the cage.
No, yeah, I know, I know I'm the most extreme, but like, can we get like a middle ground?
Like anything.
Well, look, to me, the, the role of the libertarian party is to plant a flag for people who believe in human liberty and say, hey, this is your home.
And this is, we are the ones who will defend this in the political sphere because they are a political party.
And so it just the year that the government goes totalitarian, it's like they should have just been like, oh, yes, now our job is so easy.
We know what we are.
We are the anti-lockdown party.
That's what we are.
This, this immediately differentiates yourself from the Republicans, from the Democrats.
You have this golden opportunity where it's a presidential year.
And so it's the perfect time to really message this because whether we like it or not, that time is when a lot of Americans pay attention to politics.
And so now's a great time to let a lot of people know this is your home.
Now, if other people want to do activist stuff with that, I think that's, that's great.
That can be decentralized.
You know, again, I'd advise caution on it, but, you know, but the fact that it was just kind of like, oh, well, we don't want to go against the cathedral.
We don't want to upset the corporate press.
That was a big disappointment.
I want to ask you, since you brought up the Mises Caucus and the Libertarian Party, are you a member?
Or do you like, what's your assessment of the different groups of the party?
And what are your thoughts on the LP?
Oh, yeah.
So I wouldn't really say I'm a member.
I mean, obviously I go vote for it because I'm not one of those anarchists that are like, electoralism is stupid.
Like it's, it's five minutes of your fucking day.
Go check a box.
You're helping.
Like even if it's, even if it's 0.00001% better, it took you five minutes.
Just go do it.
But definitely in general, like I do like a lot of stuff that's happening in the Mises caucus of like, like, again, like libertarians doing libertarian stuff.
When I say that, I don't just mean activism, but I mean like we need to fight.
Like we need to do messaging.
We need to get out.
We need to like strongly believe what we believe.
We need to start attacking like every, I don't like by any means necessary because that implies a bunch of fucked up shit, but by all means available, like be doing things.
And I do like that.
I do find it annoying that I feel like we've recreated this Fed culture war within our own fucking party and it's like really frustrating.
And like, I definitely fall closer on your side of that if I do find like the Wokatarian types like obnoxious.
And it's the exact opposite of what I'm talking about.
They don't do libertarian shit.
I've never heard of them.
They don't do activism.
They don't message.
They don't attack the state.
They don't do anything.
But also at the same time, there are like tons of Mises people where I feel like they've, just like you said, fall into the culture war stuff where they're more focused on posting something edgy to piss off the Wokatarians than like the government.
And like I'm, I'm just on a different level of that.
Like I've had the FBI and the DHS like show up to my door and like threaten to put me in a cage.
So like what Archie Flowers or somebody said on fucking Twitter, like I don't care.
Like I'm just on a different level of like all of this than that.
So I do think like a lot of people just need to be like shocked into this and be like, guys, yes, some of these people are really annoying, but like we need, we have bigger problems.
It's one of the reasons why the woke stuff is such effective propaganda.
Because and don't get me wrong, because sometimes it does border on things that are like, whoa, this actually really needs to be fought.
And one for me was like the, you know, the stuff where they talk about like three and four year olds taking hormones and stuff like that, where you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that actually, if you're willing to like fight that, I get it.
This is like, they're like trying to push child abuse.
And so, okay.
But in general, so much of the woke stuff, it's not just that it sucks so many from the left into caring about nonsense, but then it sucks so many into the right about fighting against nonsense.
So if you're just dunking on nonsense all day long, what have you really been doing?
You know, like if even if you're just talking about how stupid calling the Dewey decimal system racist is, you still spent your whole day on the Dewey Decimal System.
This is kind of like the one.
And people, people get really defensive about it all the time.
They're like, I could talk about more than one thing at one time.
And I'm like, can you though?
Because a lot of y'all have talked about nothing but culture war shit and have not brought up anything else.
I mean, I think infamously the day we killed Salamani, I think it was like also trending of like Marvel goes woke or something.
So it's like, we just possibly kicked off World War III by like drone striking an Iranian, you know, general, but people are complaining about Marvel because they have a black character or something.
It's like fucking.
Okay, so the day after, the day after we killed Soleimani, or maybe a couple days after is when tensions were really building up, and Stefan Molyneux invited me on his show to talk about the Iran situation.
And he was still on all the platforms, had like a million subscribers on YouTube.
And I was like, absolutely, I'd love to.
And then I got nothing but shit from the woke libertarians because they're like, Stefan Molyneux is a right-winger, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, okay, so I'm going to go convince a whole bunch of right-wingers to be good on the war in Iran.
This sounds like a great plan to me.
And so even that, then it's like, this is what the real poison of the woke shit is they make it impossible for anyone to do work to like actually be like in the business of like trying to convince right-wingers to not be for this war and like hey your government's lying to you and guess what it's the same people who framed trump for colluding with russia and all this stuff And I don't know.
I just think, you know, I certainly have fallen into it before.
I'm trying my best not to now.
But it's, it's, you know, when people are playing the woke game, which is basically like, we'll go back through your, the last 10 years of your work, find the most controversial thing you've said, give it the least charitable interpretation and call you all sorts of names for it.
It's very hard to not want to be like, well, fuck that guy.
And I still will give an occasional fuck that guy.
But I do think what you were getting at there, that it's like that has to, that can't take up too much of your time.
You have to prioritize the issues that really matter and be spending way more time on them.
And that's, that's essentially the poison of the woke shit is they spend a ton of time on microaggressions and not that much time on war.
Yeah.
It's a big problem.
I'm like, it's, I've described it as like intersectional activism because like the obviously not the more weird versions, but the foundation of intersectionality makes sense because everything's fucking connected.
You know, you can't just say one problem is in a bubble and you can fix that one problem and everything's solved.
Like we, society is complex.
But I describe intersectional activism as when I was an environmental activist when I was younger, if we were all showing up somewhere to like stop a tree getting shut down or something like that, well, chop down, we were just glad you were fucking there.
But now I feel like if I took my, what I did as a kid and went now, I'd show up to that and somebody walk up and be like, what's your opinion on abortion?
What's your opinion on Israel?
What's your opinion?
It's like, I thought we were just here to stop the tree from getting fucking cut down, you know?
But like, that's how it is now to where like everybody has to go through these giant checklists of like approval boxes to fight things we think is wrong.
Like that's very convenient for the establishment.
I'll make a I'll make a controversial statement.
I don't, I don't care if like, you know, a fucking neo-Nazi shows up to an anti-war watch.
I'm not going to talk to him.
I probably won't stand with him.
But like, hey, bro, I'm glad somebody hates war too.
And you might have a bunch of other fucked up opinions and I'll never like you, but I like that you hate war.
You know, that's period.
Like I've solved this.
If you got the funny thing, right, is that like the whole essence, and I've made this point before and gotten in trouble for it, but I don't give a shit.
I'll keep making it.
The whole essence of why we hate Nazis is the genocide, right?
Like that's the whole thing that is what like the real bad thing that Nazis did.
So we got like four genocides going on right now.
And if you're against those genocides, that's pretty good.
That's that's better than someone who's for them.
Like pretty much no matter what other thing you have, it's it'd be hard for me to think of anything that could outweigh being against the genocide because that's the whole point of why you supposedly don't like Nazis, right?
Is that.
So it's kind of weird to me.
Like I, you know, I made this point a while back and no one's ever really countered it, but they certainly have tried to use it to like damage me.
But I was saying the thing about Holocaust deniers.
And again, I guess because I'm a Jew and my family was killed in the Holocaust, I feel the freedom to say this.
But I go, if someone doesn't believe that a Holocaust that did happen happened in the 40s, how is that worse than someone who is advocating for the Holocaust currently going on in, say, Yemen?
Yeah.
How is that even like remotely in the same ballpark?
People try to pin you with that, really?
They try to pin it.
Oh, yeah.
No, it's, it's, I'm, if you go ask the person defending Holocaust supporters.
You know, I'm defend or defending Holocaust deniers.
I'm defend.
That's, that's what it's taken out as.
And one time they had me on record that I said, I really don't care about that shit.
I just don't care.
No, I don't know.
Whether you believe it happened or didn't.
It doesn't really mean anything to me.
It still happened.
The vast majority of people still know it happened.
Why is why am I required to be like, oh my God, no, he said this about it.
It's like, okay, I don't believe that.
As another thing, I'll tell you, I just want to say, I just laugh at him.
I just laugh at him.
I'm like, wow, you're stupid.
And then move on with my life.
Yeah, well, that's probably the best way to do it.
But it's another thing I really hate about the woke culture is the idea that I am required to denounce people who I might agree on on like a bunch of things because they have this, you know, politically incorrect view.
Or even if it's a really horrible politically incorrect view.
It's like, why can't I just tell you what I think on that view?
And tell you what I like about that person and what I like with them.
You know, it's like, I don't have some obligation to denounce people.
Listen, anyway, we're over time.
I've really enjoyed this.
We're going to have to do this again.
But tell people what's going on next.
Where can they find your stuff?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I guess real quick, as kind of an announcement, because you would be interested in this, September 11th, this year, we're working on a post-partisan anti-war march in DC.
And the type of people involved with it might surprise you.
And we're really looking at like left, right, motherfucking hammer and sickle and libertarian flame.
Unity Requires Putting Up or Shutting Up00:00:58
Everybody.
I don't care.
Everybody there.
We're working on that.
Scott Horton's interested and involved.
Like a bunch of other people are going to be into it.
So let's do this.
Put our money where our mouth is.
This is the point of the unity shit.
Can we put up or shut up?
But I'm excited to announce that.
But outside of that, I have a YouTube channel and a Twitter.
It's the only things I'm allowed to be on because I'm banned off everything else.
And that's just Magnus Panvidia.
And I have a podcast I do every Thursday called Unity or Death.
And that's kind of my whole thing.
And for events, May 28th, be in Louisville for the year anniversary of like the whole Breonna Taylor protest starting.
And then we're working on something with Thaddeus Russell and Laney Sweet to get an event for Daniel Shaver because nobody's had an event for him yet.
And I think that's fucked.
So that's another, that's another like, let's put up or shut up kind of moment.