Dave Smith and Robbie the Fire Bernstein dissect the "dueling presidents" crisis, analyzing Trump's legal team's mass conspiracy allegations against the Biden transition. They critique Trump's inaction during Mueller, contrasting Machiavellian power grabs with libertarian truth-seeking, while debating whether Biden's unified opposition to Trump might eventually fracture the left. Ultimately, the hosts predict a future where Trump remains perceived as legitimate by many despite losing office, creating a deepening institutional trust crisis that could define the next four years under a potentially unstable presidency. [Automatically generated summary]
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Aging Leaders and Political Trust00:04:31
Fill her up.
You're listening to the Gash Digital Network.
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You're listening to part of the problem on the Gash Digital Network.
Here's your host, Dave Smith.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
Of course, I'm Dave Smith.
Of course, he is Robbie the Fire Bernstein, the king of the cocks.
Welcome to a brand new episode.
What's going on, my brother?
How are you, sir?
I'm doing well, man.
This was a power-packed week of part of the problems.
Oh, yeah.
Sure is.
I mean, they always are, but this was especially power-packed.
We've been packing the power for you pussies since Peter Pan picked a pack of pickles.
All right.
That was weird.
So big press conference yesterday by Rudy Giuliani and Trump's Trump's legal team, which was quite a thing.
Quite a little moment in history.
You know, Donnie's bringing the heat when his face starts to melt.
Jesus Christ.
Yeah, it was, if, if you're, you know, on the Trump side, it was unfortunate that he started going Ultimate Warrior with Papa Shango curse in the middle of the middle of the press conference.
At some point, you're ugly enough.
You have to just accept it and give up.
There's no reason for makeup.
There's no reason for hair dye.
You're there because I guess you're smart enough to defend Trump and you got a Yankees ring, which is cool as fuck.
Just go with that.
Yeah, I do not, for the life of me.
And I realize we're starting with not the most important issue of aspect of all of this, but I do not, for the life of me, understand why men color their hair.
I think it's ridiculous.
I also think that it's particularly weird when it's men like Rudy Giuliani.
Like, what is your thing?
What are you, a sex symbol that you're trying to like hang on to the fucking, like, what is this?
You're, you were never good looking, even when you were young, but you have to be like hot.
Like, is that what people are appealing?
Is that what's appealing about Rudy Giuliani?
I think it's lame that older women get like the plastic surgery and do all this crazy shit, but you know, whatever.
It's a little bit different for a woman.
It's also a little bit different when you see like an older woman on TV or in the movies who was the like hot chick and now she's getting older and you can at least kind of understand where she's trying to hang on to that hot chick appeal.
Now, I still think that sucks.
It's like, look, I'll still bang her.
I like that hanging it on vibe.
You don't.
All right, fair enough.
But I just go like, I don't know, grow old with dignity.
That's kind of my thing.
And there's like, you know, for all the benefits of being young, it's, they're far outweighed by the benefits of being older, being wiser, being having more money, like having more success.
All the things about being older are better.
But I actually just remember randomly when I was 29 and I was about to turn 30, I remember being a little like, like, holy shit, I'm going to be fucking 30.
And I was talking to Rachel Feinstein, a very funny comedian.
And she was like, what are you worried about being 30?
She goes, your 30s are so much better than your 20s.
She's like, your 30s are where you have success.
20s suck.
20s, you got nothing.
You're like sleeping on couches.
It just like is a, and she was right.
She was completely right.
And I'm not even kind of concerned about turning 40.
Life is so much better.
But, you know, I still got a long time.
Two years, a few months.
Anyway, um, lifetime advocate of just don't look good.
I mean, look at this face at giving up.
Just it's fine.
Move on.
Rob turned 40 when he was 19.
That's how prepared he was for all this.
But I'll tell you, it's really, really weird.
Like when you see like Lou Dobbs will just like get his hair colored.
So there's like not one gray hair in his head.
And he's like 70 something.
It looks ridiculous.
Like your face doesn't match your hair.
And what are you doing?
You're a newsman.
Why can't you be old?
Like, why do you have to, what do you try to keep up the sex appeal?
Rudy's Press Conference Failures00:07:40
I don't know.
It's so bizarre.
Anyway, that didn't help Rudy Giuliani's case, but it was quite an interesting press conference from my perspective.
And regardless of what you think happened in this election or who you believe, which by the way, is all this comes down to right now.
It's just who you believe.
Who do you trust?
Who do you trust?
That's what all of this comes down to.
Trust is a really important thing.
Trust is really important in any friendship, in a marriage, and it's really important in who you get your news from.
It's really important in who your political leaders are.
And it's really one of the things that holds up the idea of democracy.
You know, like, do you trust this?
Do you trust this system?
Do you trust institutions?
Do you trust your leaders and rulers in some cases?
And that's what this has all come down to.
And we'll talk more about that through the episode, but it's all about who you trust.
Like, which side do you trust is telling you the truth?
Because no one really knows for sure.
And that's the truth.
I hope people, you know, who listen to this show, I hope we've earned people's trust.
And I think for the most part, that's why people listen to this show.
It's not that they necessarily have to agree with us on everything or think we get everything right, but they believe that we're not lying to them and we're not.
You know, we might be wrong about things, but we're not fucking lying to people.
And that's a big part of what people look for right now when they're trying to get information from anybody.
Can I, because so many people are lying in 2020 America that it's like, well, you could tell me whatever you want to.
CNN could say whatever they want to about the election right now.
It's not going to influence any Trump supporters because for very good reason, they don't fucking trust you.
So that's it.
You've blown your trust and now you have no chance to, you know, convince them.
But, you know, over the last year, really over the last four years, but particularly over this last year, there's so much happening that, you know, there's always like the news of the day and there's like a big story.
And there'll be things that are stories.
You know, the president got COVID.
I mean, that's a story, you know, and like, oh, now he's out of the hospital.
It's a story.
But while there's all of these things happening, sometimes something will happen and you almost have to zoom out and take a step back and go, wait a minute, this is like a historic moment.
This is something really, really big in the history of this country.
And that's what yesterday's press conference was.
This was a really, really big moment.
Trump's legal team came out and not only made it clear that they are doubling down on their claim that the election was stolen, but they are not just alleging a little bit of voter fraud.
Like they're not alleging that like, oh, some dead people voted here or there, like always happens.
You know, they're not alleging that like some ballots were counted improperly or there was that, you know, like these things happen all the time in elections.
What they're alleging is that there was a mass conspiracy to switch millions of votes from Donald Trump to Joe Biden, and that this was run by huge multinational corporations, that there were politicians in on it from the local state level all the way up to the top levels of governments.
This is like their quote from the other day.
I believe it was Sidney Powell said this, from the state governments all the way up to the highest levels of the federal government.
This is what they're alleging.
That, no matter how you feel about it, is a, I think, an unprecedented moment in American history that the sitting president of the United States and his legal team are claiming that our democracy is illegitimate.
And that, no matter what, you know, what way you swing it is a huge fucking story.
That's really, really big.
And it's going to have profound implications for this country moving forward.
I don't know exactly what they're going to be, but it's something really, really big.
Did you go for it?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that's right.
They're going for it.
And so this is, you know, this is what we know now.
Like, we kind of know after yesterday's press conference that, you know, for anyone who is wondering, will Trump concede the election or after they fail in court, will he concede the election or something like that?
There's that's not happening, at least not in a traditional sense.
I mean, he may accept that the election was stolen from him and that he's not going to be in the White House by the end of January, but that's a very different thing than actually conceding that you were beat.
He's not going to concede that.
He is going out as this is, this was stolen from me.
And now, for the first time in American history, and this is, I know people can talk to the Russiagate stuff, but this is different.
This is a whole different level than that.
This is going forward, there's going to be, I mean, I don't know if all the 71 or 72 million people who voted for Donald Trump will believe him, but a huge portion of them will.
And going forward, there's going to be not only this kind of red-blue, you know, disconnect that we've been living with for years, but there will literally be the view that like there are two presidents.
Like they will view Donald Trump as the legitimate president and the left half of the country will view Joe Biden as the president.
And this is a whole new, a whole new deal.
What did you think of the press conference?
Well, I watched it through like Midway of the Southern Lady.
I love a good Southern lawyer.
That really gets me juiced up, ready to go.
I think the most interesting thing to me that was said, if I just want to highlight the most interesting thing, was Giuliani saying we have affidavits.
Affidavits are evidence.
So everyone's saying that there is no evidence.
You can combat this evidence, but there is evidence.
So quit saying that there's no evidence.
And then it was interesting to see the way that the story was then published.
I think one of the best versions of this was Politico.
Also, the Wall Street Journal just said Trump's team basically states conspiracy theories.
And so if you just kind of look at the way that this has been played in the press since the very beginning, first it was there's no such thing as voter fraud, voter fraud doesn't exist.
And well, that's not true.
There is voter fraud.
Maybe the scale of it's not that large, but saying that there's no such thing as voter fraud is crazy.
Then also the idea, this is a true statement.
There will be more voter fraud with mail-in voting than traditional voting.
I believe that to be a true statement.
Now, the media tried to say that that's not true at all.
No, it's true.
The scale of it might not be that we've had massive voter fraud now, but I think it's pretty factual to say that voter fraud is a less secure form of voting.
And now one of the big things have been to just say that there's zero evidence.
Now, Giuliani's evidence might be bad.
I'd be really curious to see the way this stuff plays out in court because they don't seem to have won any court cases.
But I guess at this point, factually, you can't claim that they have no evidence.
So just I thought that was really interesting.
And the reporting on this since the outset has been fascinating.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, there's, it's funny you said that because I was thinking pretty much along the same lines.
The Voter Fraud Debate00:13:03
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You know, there's a lot of people who, when it comes to politics, they pick a side and they go all in on that side.
And there's an argument to do that.
You know, I've heard from a lot of people who listen to the show who are like supporting Trump this time around.
And they can make some decent arguments about that.
And mostly what the arguments rely on is how batshit crazy the other side is.
And so we need to pick a side against, you know, we need to support Trump because look, the Democrats are so goddamn crazy or whatever, you know?
And I get it.
I get the argument.
There's someone said to me recently on Twitter, someone said something about me being a secret Trump supporter, which I get a lot.
And they said, he said, he goes, oh, please, if Trump actually was anti-war and ended the wars and supported Austrian economics, Dave would support him in a second.
And I was like, well, yeah.
I mean, obviously, like, what?
How is that even like, like, what?
I mean, yeah, at that point.
So, but, but it almost got me thinking it away.
I mean, I found it kind of funny.
But, and then someone was, you know, wrote back to him and was like, yeah, well, obviously they would support him then.
Like, why wouldn't he?
He goes, well, he's still not a perfect libertarian.
You know, and I was like, well, goddamn.
I mean, come on, you'd have to be stupid if he was like that good, but not, you know, so the point I'm making is that there is, look, if you, let's say Donald Trump, you know, I don't know, did end every last one of the wars and supported Austrian economics and was really, you know, like vetoing every non-balanced budget and was really doing just like all of these great things, but then had like three things that he didn't do right.
And you wouldn't support him because you go, nope, I'm a 100% purist and he's not perfect on this issue.
Then that to me seems ridiculous.
Like, yes, then it is time to pick a side and you should be on that guy's side.
Now, on the other hand, right, if let's say they were both the exact same level of terrible, Joe Biden and Donald Trump were exactly the same, but Joe Biden proposed a budget that was like $6 trillion for the next year's spending, and Donald Trump proposed a budget that was $1 less.
And you said, well, you have to pick Donald Trump because he's the lesser of two evils.
That would also be ridiculous, right?
So it's just kind of like, you have to pick somewhere within reason and decide whether or not this is enough for you to think.
You know what I mean?
It's not like a black and white thing.
So I understand why people, you know, and you can always make an argument, well, on these several issues, he's better on these.
For me, and this has been true for a long time, I've always just felt that it's like, look, maybe there's a role for somebody.
Maybe that's what you need to do.
You know, I don't know if somebody wanted to go be like, hey, I'm, you know, Rand Paul style.
I'm, I'm libertarian leaning.
I'm going to work with the Republicans and support Donald Trump.
And I'm going to try my best to push him toward ending wars, cutting budgets, all of this shit, right?
Okay.
I think probably there's a role for somebody to do that.
But there's also got to be a role for somebody to just tell the fucking truth and not compromise, at least to a reasonable level.
And to me, I just see that as my role.
My role is to fucking tell you the truth as I see it and to not make major compromises.
And to me, it's just, it's too major to support Trump.
So that, you know, more or less, that's kind of how I feel about this.
But when it comes to these situations, right?
There's a whole bunch of people who are just like, well, look, we're at war with the left.
And so we support Donald Trump.
And they don't really care whether they actually know or not that this election was stolen from him.
They're just like, I hate that.
They're just like, we're on Team Trump.
And so the election was fucking stolen.
That's what the Democrats did with the Russia clue.
It's the exact same thing the Democrats are doing right now.
We're on team get Trump out of there.
So I don't give a shit if it was stolen.
We're saying it wasn't stolen.
And there's all of that.
And I'm just like, well, what I'm going to do, because this has always like been my thing for a long time, if you get, it's liberating in a way to just decide you're going to tell the truth and not give a shit.
Like I don't fucking care.
The chips will fall where they may.
This is what I've done my entire career.
And so I'm just going to keep doing it.
And I'm not going to get into like, oh my God, I'm worried if I'm going to piss off this group of people or this group of people.
I'm just going to tell you what I fucking think.
And hopefully that's the bond that like the people who like this show have with us that they know that we'll keep telling them the fucking truth, at least what we know.
So here's the fucking truth, right?
I don't fucking know.
I don't know.
I mean, obviously there was some fraud in the election.
Was it enough that it tipped the scales from Trump to Biden?
I have no fucking idea.
So when you don't know, what you kind of start to do, it's like the old fucking SAT advice, right?
What do you do when you don't know the answer to a question?
Well, you start to fucking eliminate things that you know are wrong.
And that's what you kind of start to do through all of this.
And that's exactly what you were just doing when you were speaking a minute ago, where you go, okay, well, I don't know exactly what happened.
But when these people sit here and go, okay, well, there's no evidence of voter fraud.
Like, well, that's bullshit.
So let's start with that.
That's fucking bullshit.
Like that is not true.
It is not true that there's no evidence.
I mean, Giuliani and these guys, they've presented sworn affidavits of people saying that they were like instructed to lie.
And that's not zero evidence.
That's evidence.
Like sworn testimony is evidence.
And so now it may not be conclusive evidence.
Who knows?
But it's not nothing.
That's not no evidence, so that's not true.
The idea that there is no voter fraud, that's not true, you know.
So, you start to kind of look at all of these things and go, look, I am open certainly to the possibility that they tried to steal this thing and maybe even did steal it from Donald Trump.
I don't think that's crazy.
But we also need to live in reality and not just what we hope happens or what might be true.
And the truth is that if this was all stolen from Donald Trump, what reason do you have to have any faith in the idea that the courts or the FBI or the corporate press are going to give him a shot to actually prove this?
Because it's not just a matter of proving it legally.
It's like you kind of got to also be able to make your case to the American people and all of this stuff.
And the truth is that we all know that all of this shit is fucking corrupt.
And if they stole it from Donald Trump, that's just further proof that all of this shit is corrupt.
So the truth is, when you're looking at this, oh, go ahead.
On that note, if what you're saying of the FBI and everyone getting involved in this, like imagine there was the heist of the Senate, like someone stole the Constitution or something.
Can you imagine the investigation that would happen?
The interview of every single security guard.
Believe me, some fucking deep state people would show up to start really kind of figuring out what the hell happened.
Kind of like when you see in heist movies, and all of a sudden every security guard's got to go through, you know, some sort of a like, you know, basically a run-through on a polygraph or whatever the hell it is.
A lie detector test.
I think that's the term for.
But anyways, in this case, if we were taking this thing really seriously or at least wanted to prove that it definitely didn't happen, I'm surprised that like there isn't kind of one of these congressional type hearings where people have to swear in under oath.
And I'm surprised that they're not pulling in every single person that ran one of like these counting things to just, you know, sworn testimony.
Do you instruct people to do this or not do that?
Like, I mean, at some point, I would almost want to see the numbers of if we got all those people and we just had them answer these 10 questions.
Did someone instruct you to do this?
Was blank done?
Like, that to me would just be the basic investigation line here to see if whether or not like there seemed to be some sort of a coordinated effort to ensure that ballots were not counted.
Or, I mean, how many people really ran ballots three times?
Like, some of these claims, I would think you could run the investigation and come to a pretty determined point about whether or not, you know, it's true.
But like you're pointing out, it doesn't seem like the will is there right now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's um it sure doesn't.
And one of the things that's really alarming to me is that it seems that the uh the cathedral has no interest in trying to convince the Trump supporters.
Like they're they're not even interested in, you know, if you, you know, in terms of the way this thing has been run for for a very long time, beyond my entire life, the way this thing has been run is that there's a lot of effort to propagandize.
There's a lot of effort to convince the American people that this whole thing is on the up and up and that it's legitimate.
And if you were trying to make sure that Trump supporters believed that this was legitimate and that Trump did, in fact, lose, they wouldn't be handling it the way they're handling it now.
They wouldn't just dismiss all these allegations.
They would want to convince you that they've invested, investigated all these allegations.
They would want to convince you that we've investigated them and found nothing there.
And that's kind of always been how this thing operates.
And the fact that they're not doing that is kind of alarming to me.
Kind of shows that we're moving into a different era, one way or the other.
I don't know exactly what the reason is.
It's quite possible that they just realize that there's no way they could do that.
They just go, look, we have no credibility with these people anymore.
They don't believe in anything we say.
So there's no point in even trying.
Or it's possible that we're moving into a different era where they don't really give a shit.
Like we don't really give a shit if you guys believe this or not.
I think the cell is in the confidence game where they want to go, we don't even need to address this because it's such a lunacy thing.
We're not even going to look into it.
And just by looking into it, we granted some legitimacy.
I think that's more the approach.
Yeah, maybe you're right.
Maybe you're right about that.
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Tucker Carlson and Libertarian Views00:15:03
The other thing I was really thinking about with the Giuliani claim is let's say that it actually happened.
You know, it was this massive widespread voter fraud that the, you know, the hierarchies of the Democratic Party put together to make sure that Biden won.
So I could see this happening in one of two ways.
One is you got your real CIA branch of government, which is the people that put this thing together, in which case I would think that it would be really, really coordinated.
And most of the people that are working these voting centers are actually CIA like operatives and, you know, like really, really done well.
The other side of it is that they purposely do it in a sloppy way where you can always claim, well, we don't know or, well, there was the distance between us and them because of coronavirus or, well, we don't know where these, basically just where it's just process it so that they can't possibly prove that any specific thing was fraud or like they can't specifically say that like that could have happened night of.
They just said, we're going to process as many votes as we can under the guise of coronavirus that they can't stand over here and look at what we're doing.
And then when they go, hey, you shouldn't have done that.
Fine.
Maybe they prove later that we shouldn't have done it.
But how do you prove how many votes we processed or who did what?
And it was all a big accident, which is the more, I guess, legal.
I would think from a lawyer perspective, that's the better way to do it where everyone's just making a little mistake.
You know, it's a lot of mistakes with plausible deniability.
But even with that, I watched a video that got taken off of YouTube and I don't know the legitimacy of it.
So I'm just telling you, I heard audio footage of a lady who is giving instructions to people manning like a polling site.
And one of them was if someone comes in, and this was one of the most interesting Giuliani claims was that I think it was 17,000 people in Pittsburgh showed up to vote and were told that they had already voted.
And so what happens is they were given provisionary ballots.
And I heard, and like I said, it's just a thing I heard on YouTube that's no longer on YouTube, but it was a lady instructing people.
Someone comes in and they claim they never voted and we have a mail and ballot and they scream, they yell.
What do we do?
We give them a provisionary provisionary ballots just get thrown out.
That's a way of tricking a guy.
From what I understand, it's a way of tricking a person who's coming in claiming, well, whoever voted instead of me is not me to just go with that other vote without really looking into it.
So I just think on those, on those kind of tricks that they might have pulled, if it was in every single county, somebody was instructed.
I feel like you could get a lot of testimony.
It wouldn't just be three or four people, but if there were like widespread instructions that are not above board for the way voting is supposed to run, I would really think if you kind of did a full-scale investigation of everyone who went or was a part of these polling practices, like, you know, your rank and file person working at a polling practice has not been paid off that well by the CIA that they're going to totally toe the party line.
They'll tell you what was said, you know?
Right, right.
No, I mean, you certainly would think so.
Um, I don't know.
Did you see?
Uh, so Tucker Carlson is trending over his show last night, which, you know, of course, Twitter will allow this to trend and they won't, they won't silence this thing.
But Tucker Carlson basically called out Sidney Powell, the Trump's lawyer who was talking about all this stuff last night.
Huh?
Because she was talking more to the Dominion stuff.
Yes.
So what Tucker Carlson said was basically that he was like, look, we heard what Sidney Powell said at the press conference yesterday.
She's been saying for about a week.
And we heard these accusations where she's claiming that millions of votes were switched.
She said Donald Trump would have had over 80 million votes if it wasn't for this software and this algorithm that had switched votes.
So Tucker Carlson was like, look, our show reached out to her.
We were like, oh, we'll have you on.
We'll have you on for the full hour.
Like, this is the biggest story in American history if this is true.
So like, yeah, let's talk about this.
And she was very hostile to them and didn't get back to him.
And then they asked if she could provide them with any of the evidence to back up this claim.
And she was kind of shitty about it.
And then they asked a bunch of other high-level people in the Trump administration.
They were like, Yeah, she hasn't provided us with any of this evidence either.
And what Tucker Carlson said was, and I quote, she has never demonstrated that a single actual vote was moved illegitimately by software from one candidate to another.
Now, again, this doesn't mean that she doesn't have this evidence and is holding on to it for trial or something like that.
But Tucker was just making the point that he's like, look, she's making this like crazy claim and has not provided any evidence to back it up.
And for the a lot of right-wing people are furious with Tucker Carlson for this.
And they're like, why isn't he, you know, taking our side?
He's got this huge platform.
He's the biggest show in cable news.
He's been standing up for us.
Why now, when it really matters, is he not taking our side?
And there's also been these rumors floated out about Tucker Carlson running for president in 2024, which I, I think, in, first off, I don't think there was any reason to ever assume that.
Tucker has never hinted at that.
I think it's just that his show is huge and they're like, oh, he could be the guy.
This to me really signified that he's not, that Tucker Carlson's not that guy.
Because it's kind of like what I was saying before, where it comes down to this choice of like, do you make the choice that because I see this one side as such a threat, I'm on the other side.
And now you're like in a Machiavellian world.
You're not sitting here, let me tell the truth.
You're sitting here saying, how do we win?
That's all that matters.
How do we win?
Not let me tell the truth.
Those are very different, you know, things.
And Tucker Carlson basically let me know last night that he's like, I'm going to tell the truth.
Like, I'm not playing this game where I will lie to your face to help my side win.
I'm going to tell you, look, there's a claim here.
I can't fucking verify it.
In fact, no evidence has been provided of this.
And I personally appreciate that because I think the truth is important.
And I think that's what you look for, particularly out of, you know, news.
And that's what Tucker Carlson is in the news business.
So, like, I'd like him to tell the truth.
That being said, it's just interesting to see this divide as it happens, as people are furious at him because he won't, you know, tell the truth.
And okay, listen, I'm not saying, again, just to be clear here, I'm not saying that there are no circumstances where it doesn't make sense to take the Machiavellian position and be like, listen, we have to go all in on this team and that's that.
And, you know, I don't know.
There's an argument, maybe.
But one of the things that is that's that's problematic when you go down that road of just being like, I'm all in on this team.
I just want us to win.
It's that it's very easy yourself to get removed from reality and to not see things for what they are because you're not telling the truth anymore.
And when you're not telling the truth, you're telling lies.
And when you're telling lies, it's easy to convince yourself of your own bullshit.
That's part of the human condition.
You know, if you don't, if you don't speak the truth often enough, you start to get very divorced from the truth.
And the truth is, of course, reality.
And so here's the situation with a lot of these right-wingers, who, by the way, I don't, you know, I enjoy talking with a lot of right-wingers.
And it's, you know, I guess it's what I've gotten in trouble for in some, you know, groups of libertarians that I like, I've talked to right-wingers and not been like furious at them the whole time and not been like, you know, calling them racist enough or something like that, which is, you know, ironically enough is not an argument.
Even if somebody is racist, just shouting racist at them doesn't really prove anything.
And for all the people who have like been really mad at me for, you know, having Nick Fuentes on the podcast or something like that, and they're always like, you should give him more pushback.
I'm like, well, what pushback do you have?
And just curious, like, what's your argument against?
And their argument is always like, oh, he's racist.
He said this one thing.
That's bad.
And you're like, yeah, but that's not an argument.
Like, what, what, here, give me the pushback.
You tell me what you would, you know, what you would confront him with.
Anyway, I think one of the reasons why it's fun for libertarian anarcho-capitalists, people in this space to talk to certain right-wingers is that there's a different dynamic when you speak to them than when you speak to moderates or left-wingers or even just regular Republicans.
So the libertarian assessment of the state is basically that the state is a group of people that have a monopoly on legal initiation of violence.
So they have a monopoly on legally being able to initiate violence against you.
So other groups of people initiate violence, but they don't do it legally with perceived legitimacy and with legal legitimacy.
So there's, you know, a mugger can take your money.
Totally went down the wrong tube.
Sorry.
Like, just totally set that and went right in my lungs.
Good old Robbie was a start moment.
Sorry for disturbing what you were doing there.
No problem.
No problem.
I was pretending like I was just fine.
I wasn't sure what's going on with you.
Something funny.
And I was like, are you dying?
Are you dying or laughing?
All right.
So libertarians see that.
Look, like somebody can mug you, but nobody perceives that as being legitimate and it's illegal.
Somebody can kill somebody else, but nobody perceives that as legitimate.
They can kidnap you, blah, yada, yada, yada.
But the state can rob you and just call it taxation.
The state can kill a bunch of people and call it war.
The state can enslave you and call it the draft or conscription.
The state can kidnap you and call it arrest.
You know, all of these things.
And that this is what the state is.
Now, if you if you're talking about the state with your average Republican or you're certainly your average Democrat or anybody on the left, they are coming.
They're like, no, that's not what the state is.
There is not one single Republican, like elected Republican who will tell you democracy isn't good.
None of them.
They all support democracy.
They all support the idea that, well, no, the state is us and we're it's self-government or whatever, you know, like all of this other shit.
And people on the left will tell you that the state is kind of like the referee in the game, or sometimes they'll tell you it's a vessel.
It can be used for bad or good or whatever.
The state is there to take care of the poor.
The state is there to regulate the big banks, you know, all of this stuff.
So when libertarians talk to all of these groups of people, it's like, you know, it's like we're looking at a car and we're like, listen, this car is bad.
And then they're like, that's not a car.
It's a tree.
And now you've got this argument over what it is that we're talking about.
And of course, we're right.
I mean, we like, obviously, the state is, this is just a factual statement.
The state is a group of people who maintain a legal monopoly on the initiation of violence.
That's like you can prove it.
This is literally what they are.
And you can disprove all of these other things.
But the whole time you're arguing, you're arguing over whether this is a tree or a car.
And so you have to sit there and be like, well, look, it's got four wheels, right?
Trees don't have four wheels.
And like, you know, they kind of make this argument.
And it is a car.
So we've got the argument and it's kind of fun to win that argument because it's a pretty easy argument to win.
But the thing that's kind of interesting about arguing with people who are more like hard right is that they go, yeah, it's a car and we want to use it to drive over people.
And then you're like, oh, well, that's kind of, it's a different argument than you're used to hearing.
So people on the far right will go, yeah, of course, the state is a group of people who maintain the legal, you know, legal monopoly on the initiation of violence.
And here's why we need that.
And here's why we need to use it to crush our enemies.
And I understand where people can look at that and be like, oh my God, that's evil.
That's like more evil than the people who think it's a fucking tree.
And yeah, maybe, but it's kind of refreshing in a way to at least be like, okay, so we're on the same page.
So we acknowledge what the state is.
And you actually realize that it's a harder argument to win than the argument that a car is a tree, because that's just so absurd on its face.
That argument's easy.
And any like idiot libertarian, like their first, you know, day one libertarian can be like, well, I mean, I just put a tank of gas in it.
So I don't think it's a tree.
It's got a steering wheel.
So I don't think it's a tree.
But when you actually start to argue with a hard right wing guy, it's a little bit more complicated, even though, because what you immediately are almost reduced to when they go like, well, it's a car, yes, and we should use it to plow over this group of people is you go, that's wrong.
You know, which isn't really an argument.
You're just kind of asserting your like morality on it, which is true, but it's just not that great of an argument.
Well, I think that's wrong.
I don't think we should do that.
And then they go, okay, well, the car is already being used to plow over people.
It's being used to plow over us.
So I want to get in that car and plow over other people.
If we're in the car, we're not getting plowed by the car and all of that.
And you're like, whoa, wow.
You know, once you get into that space, there is a compelling argument there.
I mean, it's like, it's not moral and it's fucking kind of scary, but you realize it's, it's a lot harder to take on than the left-wing argument that it's a tree, not a car.
So anyway, I hope that metaphor analogy worked.
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Ilhan Omar and Power Dynamics00:15:16
So, the right-wing position, the hard right position there is kind of a Machiavellian one that we need to win.
We need power to exercise power to crush our enemies, or our enemies will crush us with that power.
That is more or less the argument that they have.
And, you know, maybe there's something to that.
Like, it's not, you know, I don't agree with it, but I will admit that there's an argument there.
The problem that I think a lot of right-wingers have is that the right sucks at power, and they always have.
And like, that's really one of the things that, and this is what I'm trying to say to people who are all in on Trump right now.
Look, I'm not even telling you not to do it.
Go do whatever you want to fucking do.
Have your marches, protest, go through the legal channels.
And then, when this all doesn't work out, you know, let's try to size up what is really going on here.
Let's try to get back in touch with truth and reality.
Because even if you're Machiavellian, you need to know what's true.
Otherwise, you're not going to be able to hatch a very good plan.
So, what's you know, for all of the criticisms of Donald Trump, you know, from he's literally Hitler and all of this shit.
The truth is, if you're coming at it from the hard right point of view, what the criticism of Donald Trump really should be is that he just has no clue how to wield power, he's just terrible at it, and he's never been able to do it successfully at all.
And this is why nothing he ever says he wants to get done actually gets done.
And I'm not just talking about like, oh, we're going to like fucking build a wall or we're going to get out of all of these wars or it's like all that shit.
I mean, I'm talking about the fact that Donald Trump called like months ago that the vote by mail stuff was going to be corrupt.
So, let's say he's right and now it is corrupt and they cheated him.
Like, just hypothetically, I don't know if it's true, but let's say they swayed the results of the election.
It's like, oh, well, now he's trying to do something about it.
You know, when would have really been the time to do something about it?
When they were fucking instituting this, but he didn't.
They were unable to wield this power in any meaningful way.
I mean, everyone's like pissed off that they're like, well, in Georgia, you know, they don't have the signature verification shit.
It's like, okay, I mean, that seems reasonable to me that signatures would be verified.
You know, I guess you guys had to get that done.
By the way, I'm not claiming that I know how to wield this fucking power.
I don't.
I hate the power.
I don't want the power to exist.
But if you guys are all into taking over this power to wield it, well, what the fuck?
I mean, forget the stuff like about ending the wars and all that.
Maybe Trump never gave a shit about ending the wars.
I don't know.
I don't really know what's going on in his head, but I'm pretty sure he didn't want to be labeled as a traitor and in bed with Russia.
But he never, he could never even use his power to fight it.
He had the authority to fire just about everybody doing the Mueller investigation.
Never did.
He had the power to declassify all the documents.
Never did.
Just kind of sitting out there like, well, I hope this will all kind of work out.
You know, it's like Trump, like Trump gaining power, whatever level of political power, you know, the president actually has or whatever.
What did that really do?
What did that do for you?
It's not even like, it's like you got in the car and you're like, now we're going to plow down our enemies, but you guys are still the ones getting plowed down because you got in the car and realized there's like 3 million people inside the car and you don't even know how to drive the fucking wheel.
Like you don't like, it's just like, all I'm saying is that I understand why you hate the left.
And I think I probably hate many of the same aspects as much as some of you guys do.
But I don't know that it's so clear that even if you think the left is the best threat, and this is what, this is where the danger of just jumping on a team and not just staying committed to the truth will take you.
And by the way, I will also fully acknowledge there's danger in just being committed to the truth and not jumping on a team.
Like if one team is really a threat to your very existence and your family and you don't jump on the team against them, just staying committed to the truth can be dangerous too.
But there's dangers to jumping on a team.
And one of them is that, like, as I said, you get removed from the truth.
You don't assess things for what they really are.
You get removed from reality.
And so I'm just saying, even if you think the left is the biggest threat ever, it's not such a given that you should be on Team Trump and want Trump to be in power.
What have we really gotten for the four years of Donald Trump?
You know, if you ask me, I think the left is consolidated power.
In fact, I think they've been in a much more powerful position since Trump got in because it united all of them for the enemy.
Orange man bad, literally Hitler.
They're all united.
Trump is the glue that has kept the Democrats, a big tent that consists of neocon Warhawks and Ilhan Omar, all under one tent.
A fucking Muslim chick who hates Israel and the neocons are all supporting the same candidate.
That's what that is how big the fucking tent is.
Now, what keeps them together is Trump and hating Trump.
What happens if Biden gets in there?
How long can Ilhan Omar and Bill Crystal really remain as friends?
You know?
And so perhaps it's actually better strategically from a Machiavellian standpoint.
It's actually better for Joe Biden to get in there.
And maybe, I mean, for the right wing to take, you know, like what I would like to see is more of a position of trying to decentralize everything and trying to undercut the power whenever you can, or maybe even perhaps for some right-winger to take power who actually knows how to wield it.
I'm skeptical of that idea, but it's like, you know, the idea of taking power, taking control when you don't know what the fuck to do with that power doesn't seem to me to be such a self-evidently wise position.
It doesn't seem like, you know, like it's even like people sometimes that Trump supporters will argue.
I think I made this point a couple podcasts ago, but they'll argue like, you know, whatever, Trump's more libertarian than Biden.
And so we got to get in there and support Donald Trump because he's better on these issues for a libertarian.
And you're like, I don't know.
Trump's president in like half of America's been locked in their home for most of the year.
What, what, what did it do to prevent that?
And then they're like, okay, well, Joe Biden would have supported the lockdowns.
Like, okay, so what?
They happened either way.
By the way, it looks like round two is starting up now.
Some places still are locked down.
I think California, most of it is still fucking locked down.
So I don't know.
Now, again, I could be wrong.
I'm simply saying I don't know, but it's something, I think it's something to think about, to fucking ponder.
Rob, do you want to drive down people in your car?
Not really.
Okay.
Sorry.
Just wondering.
That's good.
It's probably best not to.
No, I think that struck a chord with me that, you know, I guess we're advocating for let's find out what the actual truth is here.
And we don't want people to be able to rig elections, but it also doesn't make a lot of sense for someone else to just be able to claim that someone rigged an election so that they can remain in office.
Neither of those options are good.
And what you're pointing out, which I didn't really think about this, but the, hey, let's just win because like we're going to yield our power.
Trump fucking failed on that miserably.
You're 100% right on that.
I hadn't considered that at all.
Well, I mean, what, like, if what you're saying is true, Trump supporter, you know, if, which again, I'm not like opposed to believing.
I mean, the crazy thing about it, right?
And this is kind of what I was getting at before is that, so, you know, if you have like the New York Times and CNN and Twitter and like whatever saying there is absolutely no evidence that there's been any voter fraud, which is obviously a bullshit claim.
But even if they go, there wasn't nearly enough to, you know, sway the results of the election.
It's like, I'm not retarded.
I don't believe a word these people say because they lie about everything, everything.
So I don't know, just like by the way, you listening, you don't know either whether there was enough, you know, shenanigans to sway the election from Trump to Biden.
But I'm not like, I'm open to the possibility.
Maybe, perhaps there was.
I mean, I think it's reasonable to think, right, that after, you know, an attempted deep state coup, which I absolutely know, you know, happened and all of the craziness of this last year and everything, the way they get Trump, I mean, why wouldn't they attempt to?
I'd almost be surprised if there were no attempts to try to rig the election against Donald Trump.
I mean, our deep state will try to rig elections in foreign countries, and they seem much more concerned with Donald Trump being president of the United States than they do about who the fucking president over there is.
I think it was great Gutfeld said the other day.
He was like, I mean, if we'll overthrow Gaddafi, why wouldn't they try to overthrow Donald Trump?
I mean, who do you really think is a bigger threat to the fucking, you know, CIA or whatever?
Like, obviously, Trump.
So sure.
And I don't think any left-winger or Democrat or anything like that would hesitate one second to do it because like they said, it's literally Hitler.
So how why would you not do anything you could to defeat literally Hitler?
So I'm just saying I'm open to the possibility that this happened.
But if you're saying this is what happened, and then okay, but you also have to acknowledge that that's a comment on Trump's inability to stop it from happening.
This is just, I'm just saying, this is the reality.
This is what's going on right now, whether you like it or not.
This is the reality.
And of course, I completely understand.
And I think this is maybe forget even like what my opinion is or your opinion on this.
What's interesting and historical about this moment is that we now have a situation where there is essentially nothing that the press and the institutions can do to convince people that this wasn't rigged.
And that's kind of what I was getting at before, that that might also be why the media is not making an effort to try to like really convince the Trump supporters.
It could be what you said, which is a fair point too.
Very fair point.
It could be that they're like, oh, we just have to like scoff at it and be like, this is so absurd that they can almost like, you know, like brain you into not believing it, like a sales tactic type thing.
Or it could be that they just recognize they're like, there's just nothing we can do.
There's no way.
And that's the truth, right?
There's no way.
There's nothing that CNN could put out that would go, oh, yeah, we really convinced the Trump voters that this wasn't rigged.
And understandably, because they lie about everything.
So why the fuck would any Trump supporter?
It's like, dude, you've been calling us Nazis for four years and telling us he was a Russian puppet.
And you also told us we needed to overthrow Saddam and Gaddafi and Assad and whatever, you know, the Houthis, whoever the fuck it is this week that you lie about.
And so they don't believe you and they shouldn't.
And I don't believe you for the same reasons.
But at the same time, you go, well, what are you going to trust?
What if the FBI looks into it and comes out and says, nope, nothing to see here?
Would that convince me or you, Rob, that, okay, well, I guess it's on the up and up because the FBI looked into it.
Or maybe a court.
Do we really trust the justice system in America if some fucking court, like, of course, no, what judge would possibly want to give this election to Donald Trump right now?
You know how much easier your life will be if you just decide, nah, actually, it was on the up and up.
I mean, it's like, you know, like, who, who would decide to do that under these circumstances?
So that is just kind of baked into the cake.
Like, that's it.
This is it.
Well, you're going to need a full-scale admission like that scene in a movie where everyone's jaw drop.
I can't believe he just said that.
You would need someone on the Biden team to actually, or multiple people to give testimony to the fact that they were involved in this thing and that here's the evidence and here's the file and here's the way the algorithm worked.
You would actually need that like you're at.
You would need what you see in movies when someone turns on the mafia.
And what are the odds of that happening?
I mean, we couldn't get that for any, we couldn't get any of that for Russia gate.
We couldn't get any of that for the Iraq war.
What are the odds that that's actually going to happen?
I mean, not zero, but awfully close to zero, brushing up against zero.
Before we call it an episode, can we talk about Dominion for one second?
Oh, yeah, sure.
What is so?
I mean, that is such an interesting and fantastic claim that George Soros and the Venezuelan government created this program and the program is specifically so that you can shift votes on the back end.
Now, as a theoretical, if I was trying to steal an election, I wouldn't fucking vote.
I wouldn't bother with mailing votes and trying to, you know, living that evidence trail of people having to make announcements or trying to falsely use them.
I just wouldn't, if anything, I mean, I'd plant CIA people in lives in these communities so that, you know, you have your moles in there who are just faultily running the machines.
But even that I wouldn't try and do.
I would try and hack the machines for the numbers, or I would try and hack the back end.
I would think that that would be the more sophisticated approach.
So, as a theoretical, if you're trying to steal an election, the Dominion thing seems like it would be the better play, but it's like it sounds so like you need some hard evidence.
It is it.
You can't, yeah.
It sounds plausible to me.
I mean, I don't, I, I don't, you know, and and the problem is, right, is that all of this shit, this is what I was getting at before.
All of this shit is just baked into the cake now.
It's like what you needed was to blow this up before the election.
Yeah.
You know, otherwise, it's like you can't go into this process and go, like, okay, if I win, it's all fair and legitimate.
But if I lose, oh, it's Dominion.
You know, now, of course, the other side is completely corrupt and guilty as all hell.
I mean, fucking, I think John Oliver did a whole segment on like voting machines and voting software and how fucking, you know, like easily they can be hacked like after the 2016 election.
Now, of course, they're not, you know, like we could litigate the 2016 election all the way up to the 2020 election, but the 2020 election, like the next day, you must accept, you know, the results of it or the day after Biden was declared the winner.
But yeah, I mean, I don't know.
This all seems very plausible to me.
I don't trust an inch of the government or the establishment, the whole cathedral.
I don't trust any of it.
But the country's going to be so fun.
Are you kidding me?
Trump's just going to be at rallies going, I won, Dominion.
I'm the winner.
Trump's Victory Claims and Doubts00:03:12
Okay.
That fucking Nancy Pelosi and Biddy didn't win.
And that's going to be just our lives now.
Who knows?
Two countries.
Fucking awesome, dude.
Well, right.
And it might be for the better.
And I don't know that it will, but it might be.
I mean, think about now in the same sense that the, you know, the left was united by Trump to be like, you know, fucking, you know, Ilhan Omar could be rubbing elbows with fucking, you know, some fucking, you know, fucking neocon war hawk, some chainyite and Ilhan Omar can hang out together and Rashida Tlaib and fucking, you know, whoever, Bill Crystal or something like that.
Okay.
So now maybe it's better for the right to be completely united by the idea that this whole thing is bullshit.
This whole system is bullshit and it's corrupt.
And, you know, the corporate press are all a bunch of fucking liars.
And we got Joe Biden up there who can't remember what fucking day it is.
I mean, yeah, the reporters aren't going to ask him tough questions like they did to Trump, but he's got to answer some questions.
I don't even know if Joe Biden can answer easy questions for a half hour.
So he's going to have moments like this.
He's probably not going to serve out a full term.
I have a very hard time imagining that Joe Biden gets through four years.
And I'm just saying it is possible that that's better.
I also think, as Tom Woods said the other night, on last night on stream, he did with Michael Malice.
There's a great point he made, that it's quite possible that for the COVID lockdown type shit, it gets better under Biden.
Because if Trump gets re-elected, then of course the whole corporate science political industry will have to keep telling you, oh, things are so bad and there's no national plan and Trump is blowing everything and he won't follow the science.
But if Joe Biden gets in there, at some point they're going to have to claim success.
They're going to have to be like, oh, what we're doing is working.
You know what I mean?
Like, I mean, I don't know.
It's certainly possible that it's better under him.
Look, man, I don't fucking know.
I'm just, like I said, I'm going to keep fucking telling the truth as I see it.
That's always been what I fucking do.
And that's how I see this whole situation here.
But it is, it's a big moment.
It's a big moment for the fucking country.
And it's going to change things, whether for the better or the worse.
This is a real pivotal moment.
And I think that the Donald Trump winning in some way, you know, in 2016, some way symbolized the lack of trust in the institutions and the establishment.
But this is really going to be the next fucking level.
Like it's all over in terms of like almost one half of the country, you know, probably more than a half of the country.
It's hard to gauge, you know, non-voters and that stuff, but probably over a half of the country just don't buy any of this bullshit.
Don't buy it.
Doesn't matter what you throw at him at this point.
They're just not going to buy it.
And like you said, you're going to have Donald Trump, who's going to be out of office, perceived by many as the legitimate president of the United States, dueling presidents.
A Nation of Skeptics00:00:43
It's going to be, it's going to be quite a show.
It'll be interesting to see how this all this all plays out, man.
I don't know.
Any other thoughts?
Uh, no, I think we covered it, dude.
Covered that shit, motherfucker.
All right, Rob, you got some plugs, you got some live dates coming up right now New Hampshire, uh, the 28th and uh December 5th in Philly.
Gonna be really fun shows.
A lot of people coming to hang out.
You can meet some of the other me cawkers.
So, uh, hit me up.
Any social media platform, I'll get back to you with the uh ticket link.