Dave Smith and Michael Malice dissect the U.S. election, arguing Republicans retained the Senate despite Trump's tenure, while analyzing how Trump gained Latino and Black male support despite corporate media claims. They critique the Green Party's Joe Jorgensen for disastrous strategy and discuss Michigan absentee ballot surges alongside potential legal challenges. The conversation debates whether Trump is a "hedge" against a "real right-wing authoritarian" Biden presidency, noting the absurdity of narrow margins causing national misery. Ultimately, they advise listeners to take a "white pill," rejecting emotional political control as the system reveals its inherent flaws. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Heshy Socks and Primary Shenanigans00:15:13
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All right, let's start the show.
We need to roll back the state.
We spy on all of our own citizens.
Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
Of course, I am Dave Smith.
There was a big election last night.
I did not watch it.
I DVR'd it.
So please, no spoilers.
We're going to talk about other things today.
What is your favorite book?
I'm kidding.
We're going to do an election recap.
And I am.
I'm very happy to be joined by the person who I've had on this show and been on his show more than anyone else this year.
And there's really nobody I'd rather break all of this stuff down with than the legend, Michael Malis.
How are you, sir?
I'm going to disappoint you because I don't got, you know, I was thinking earlier today, like, people look to us, like, what does this all mean?
And I don't think I got anything.
You got nothing?
That's it.
Why is our show, everybody?
Well, that's always the show with us, isn't it?
It's like side film but for real.
Yeah, it's a little bit more thinly veiled.
We have nothing for you.
Well, what did you do?
Did you stay up?
Did you watch last night?
I mean, I love this shit.
I'm uncomfortable with how much I love it.
I, you would think I'd be the one who'd be all giddy.
I just woke up today like all fatigued for some reason.
I don't know what it is.
Maybe, maybe the chaos forces are drawing them out of me so they can distribute through the country.
I am very glad.
I am very glad that the Republicans kept the Senate because my two biggest concerns were things like court packing and just, you know, having not any kind of check on a Democratic president.
So if the Republicans are keeping the Senate, which looks like it's almost a certainty as we record, I don't really care too much about the outcome.
This was what's really funny to me is this belief they really think that since Trump is pure evil and white supremacy and the incarnation of everything that's bad, therefore, binarily, whoever defeats him is the opposite of this.
And like, if you think Joe Biden is going to, you know, bring the 1619 project to America and this whole kind of like Tumblr ethos, like, I don't see it at all.
And I also think like people say, well, it's not Joe Biden's people controlling him.
The people controlling him stopped Bernie through him.
And on the trail, he's been very vocal about shutting down the lefties.
And this was during the primaries.
Yeah, there's, you know, there's a I've been talking about this quite a bit lately, but the narrative or the talking point that Donald Trump himself has been saying, you know, that basically Joe, Joe Biden will be a Trojan horse for socialism.
I mean, that might work to get some Cubans in Florida to vote for you.
Like it might be an effective campaign strategy.
I don't know.
But in terms of the reality of it, it's really stupid.
The idea that when Joe Biden gets in there, AOC plus three will really be calling the shots or any of that.
This is all bullshit.
And your point is a very good piece of evidence that actually the party freaked the fuck out when they thought Bernie Sanders might be the nominee.
Joe Biden is not going to be a Trojan horse for socialism.
But Joe Biden is in many ways, his administration will represent kind of a nexus of Bush Cheneyites, Democratic establishment types, CIA types, big business, big banks, big tech, and woke capitalism.
That's what Joe Biden's administration represents.
It's not any of the fucking, it's not Elhan Omar.
That's not who's gotten in.
I am very concerned about the war machine.
That is my by far biggest concern.
He is a hawk.
And, you know, he also does not seem like a strong personality.
So if the issue is which is more likely for Joe Biden to be the puppet of, you know, nefarious forces, some kind of woke, you know, nonsense, or we need to have U.S. intervention abroad.
I think the second is much more likely given his history.
I mean, they couldn't even really get Obama to pull off like a lot of the stuff that if they had their drothers that they would have had.
So, and he was raised in that context.
He's a pure function of Ivy League thinking and Ivy League schools.
That's his entire identity.
So it's kind of interesting to see when you hate Trump so much and you think everything is a function of Trump.
Again, you and I have said this many times.
They really think that once Trump goes away, it's like it's like hogs wild.
And I'm just thinking about 1968 and 72 when the Republicans are like, finally, we've got Nixon in the White House.
And he just delivers every single lefty victory imaginable, affirmative action, the EPA, busing, normalizing relationship with China.
I mean, he's raising its host to Chairman Mao, affirmative action.
Price controls.
Wage controls.
Price controls.
Yeah, there's so many things he did, but even though they despised him, it's like, I think people are too young to remember what it was like when you had Bill Clinton with the Republican Congress.
And when he came into office, he was pushing for gays in the military.
And by the time he was leaving, he was having a federal amendment banning gay marriage.
So I mean, I don't know how Biden is going to be.
I think we're going to be, I think by inauguration day, the New York Times is going to be having articles about the 25th Amendment.
And I think this might be the first time in our lifetimes when the cathedral turns on a Democratic president if Biden becomes president.
Well, that's interesting.
By the way, I should say that it's not a given.
Biden hasn't won the election yet.
So this is not, it's not, you know, right now, let me just hold on, check.
I like to look on these betting sites.
Okay, yeah, but he's down to 15.
Trump's like down to 15%.
He actually pulled back up now.
This one betting, so actionnetwork.com is taking bets with him at 26% right now.
He was down to 18% and is now back up.
I'm not sure what moved that, but that to me, I'd say right now it's about 80-20 in Joe Biden's favor.
This is very different than last night.
I was live streaming until about midnight, and it was very different at that point.
Looked really good for Donald Trump.
What Donald Trump was ahead at that point in Michigan and Wisconsin.
He lost both of those leads under slightly shady circumstances.
At about four in the morning, both Wisconsin and Michigan just found 100,000 Joe Biden votes.
Absentee ballots that came in.
They got like 100,000 new ballots and they all went.
Like in Michigan, I think 100% of them went for Joe Biden.
So there might be a little bit of shenanigans going on.
Who exactly knows?
One of the points I was trying to make on the last podcast was that, you know, you'd be a fool to completely trust elections anywhere in any country.
The idea that the number they spit back out at you is the exact number of how everyone voted seems astronomically unlikely.
Like just it seems like very, very hard to believe.
And I think Trump knew that he was going to have to deal with that.
But let me just address what you're saying because this reminds me of 2000.
Because in 2000, you know, I'm old enough to remember the lies about 2000 because basically they were saying, well, the Supreme Court stopped the counting.
Every single vote in 2000 was counted.
Not only was every single vote counted, every single vote was counted repeatedly.
I think it was the New York Times paid for personal counts of the vote.
And they very clearly wanted to have as many recounts as necessary.
And each recount had a slightly different number.
They wanted to have as many recounts as necessary until it was a gore victory.
And then they could say, well, that's the real one.
And those others don't really matter.
But they lied repeatedly, saying the votes didn't weren't counted, the votes weren't counted.
So to your what you were just saying, it's yeah, we're just going to count until we get the result we want.
And then that's what really matters.
And everything else is a lie.
Yeah, no, that's that's exactly right.
Um, but I did want to address the point that you were making before, because I think this is actually probably right now the most important uh thing to understand is that both the Trump haters and Donald Trump make a major miscalculation about what the last four years in America was about.
And they both think it was all about Donald Trump.
So Donald Trump thinks it was all about Donald Trump, and Donald Trump's haters think it's all about Donald Trump.
Donald Trump is the least of this story.
It's not about Donald Trump.
It's about what Donald Trump represented.
And what Donald Trump represented was the biggest middle finger that the right half of this country could possibly find.
And that was Donald Trump.
And the fact that you get rid of what their manifestation of the biggest middle finger that they could find does nothing to address the fact that they want to give you the biggest middle finger that they can find.
And so what Donald Trump, the Donald Trump moment in America, which I guess perhaps is going to be over in January, perhaps not.
But even if it is, what he represented is the fact that tens of millions of Americans are so incredibly furious at a system, an establishment that has kind of fucked them over.
And that and that is not going away.
And in fact, Joe Biden being in there might only intensify that.
My guess would be that it'll intensify that.
We also, some of us are old enough to remember, they thought the Tea Party fizzled out.
So the Republicans or the right-wing base had their tantrum.
They had their Tea Party.
They got the Congress for the Republicans in 2014.
There was no leadership.
It fizzled out.
So from their perspective, look, let the people flip out.
We were playing the long game.
They're going to expend their energy, have nothing to show for it, and we're just going to keep running the show.
And then Trump got elected.
So not only did this not start with Trump, it's not going to end with Trump.
And again, he is, and what they can't understand, because I think they engage a lot with boomer cons, is people who like smart people who like what Trump is doing or some things, very few of them like him as a person or think he's a good guy or think like he's delivering on what is needed.
The only thing he was good on delivering at was being a wrecking ball and exposing their depravity.
But once that's done, you can't undo it.
Yes, well, that's true.
And there's also, you know, one of the things that the media, there's a couple of things I want to get into, right?
Because there's a few things that the corporate press is struggling with about the election results.
And this is no matter what happens now, even if Biden, even if they, if they, I think they just called Wisconsin for Biden, that's going to have a recount because it's less than 1%.
But even if, even if they end up calling Pennsylvania and Michigan for him, and there you go, Biden's path to 270 is locked up.
This was, according to the corporate press, this election was to be a referendum on Donald Trump.
And according to their pollster class, this was going to be maybe not quite a landslide, but a dominant victory for Joe Biden.
And this would, in effect, be a repudiation of Trumpism.
That straight up did not happen.
That is not what happened last night at all.
Donald Trump has already, as of right now, gotten somewhere near between three and four million more votes than he got in 2016.
Donald Trump, if he does lose this, it's going to be because where he won by a razor-thin margin in Wisconsin last time, he lost by a razor-thin margin in Wisconsin this time.
That's going to end up being the difference.
There was not a huge repudiation of Donald Trump.
The truth is, and this is something that the corporate press probably will never address, but people who like are in lockstep with them need to kind of process this, that Donald Trump had the worst year in modern American history,
had an economy that was destroyed, a virus that killed a couple hundred thousand people, lockdowns, protests, riots, all of this stuff on his final election year, had the entire corporate press against him, all of Hollywood against him, all of academia against him, all of polite society against him, big corporations, big banks, all against him.
And he got millions more votes this year.
And with one little flip of 10,000 votes here, 20,000 votes there, he gets re-elected.
So there was no repudiation of Donald Trump, at least on a mass level.
The Black Vote and Republican Realignment00:12:03
I think you're missing a far bigger point, which is this.
They've said for a long time that not only is Trump the devil fine, okay, whatever.
We can wrap our heads around that, but he's so toxic that he destroys everything about him.
And his presidency is ruining the Republican Party permanently.
There was a lot of concern trolling about what has happened to this respectable Republican Party.
These are people who have sold their souls for this president, people who've had long careers in Washington who know better.
This is a disgrace, and they're going to reap the harvest that they've sowed.
They're going to be driven out of office, and then we can rebuild the Republican Party.
We hear this mantra all the time, right?
And that, if the Republicans had lost the Senate, that would have been the message.
Look, we have a clean sweep.
Even if it was like 51, 51, 51, it would be like when it's 51 for the Republicans, 49 for the Democrats, our nation is divided.
When it's 51 for the Democrats, 49 for the Republicans, we have a consensus and we're united.
And finally, the visit this is behind us because divisiveness is doing what the cathedral is opposed to.
Having Susan Collins in Maine, and it's not even close, her race from my last night checked is and she.
The thing is, what people also don't appreciate: people like Lindsey Graham, Susan Collins, Tom Tillis, they were outspent by huge margins.
People were outspent.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And he wasn't even close to getting knocked off, even though his approval rating of the four congressional leaders is by far the lowest, and with good reason, understandably.
I can just look at the guy.
People who think the Republican Party is the party of the rich, which is how this has been told all the time.
So much corporate money goes into Democratic coffers.
And don't take my word for it.
Go look at any website who were the biggest fundraisers for Senate candidates.
And it's all anti-incumbent Republican Democrats who they were trying to pick off Pumpkins.
So to have the Republicans keep the Senate puts forth the hypothesis that Trump has been destructive of the Republican Party has been demonstrated to be false.
Now, whether it's a good thing or bad thing, that depends on your perspective.
But that claim, which we've been hearing for a long time, how when they get rid of him, they have to salt the earth and return back to the Mitt Romney and McCain respectability.
That fantasy has now been nullified.
Yeah, I think that cannot be overstated enough.
And that on top of that, the narrative was that, you know, if it, like you said, the respectable, once respectable party, Donald Trump has gone scorched earth and destroyed, you know, he might be able to get something, but he destroys it for everybody else.
Well, no, actually, 2006 and 2008 is when the Republican Party was at its lowest in the last 25 years.
And who destroyed that?
It was George W. Bush.
It actually turned out that two disastrous wars, a shitty response to a hurricane, and the biggest financial crisis since the 30s, that's what hurt the Republican Party, not Trump's dickish tweets.
And it's just, it's kind of common sense if you remove yourself from the cathedral narrative.
Of course, that was much worse for the party than anything Donald Trump has done.
But just to further destroy this narrative, Donald Trump won by a bigger margin in Florida and a bigger margin in Texas than he did in 2016.
And he did it because he did much better with the Latino vote.
This is something that's going to, now we're going to get more and more numbers on this over the next few weeks, but there is pretty much no question right now.
Donald Trump made huge improvements with black men and huge improvements in the Latino vote.
And I love this because it just makes corporate press heads explode.
Well, it also makes boomer con heads explode.
Yeah.
Because a lot of times the boomer con mentality is to accept the progressive framework and argue against it from within it.
And the progressive framework is you have white people on one side and you have intersectionality on the other.
And basically blacks, Asians, and gays and Hispanics are all the same and they're a team and blah, blah, blah.
In real life, as any of us who live in cities know, people who are Asian and Hispanic are racist against blacks at equal or higher rates often, especially Asians, than white people.
This is a complete canard that is taught to us in colleges that it's whites on one side, and it's far more nuanced in real life than Joyanne Reed would have you believe and people who work for MSNBC would have you believe.
They are not going.
And also, you have the thing for people who are this claim again, the concern trolling, oh, Trump attacking Mexicans, Trump attacking immigrants.
He's going to drive away Hispanics in the Republican Party, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Well, that doesn't bear that out.
I said this like four years ago on Fox, where I said, if the Republican Party was smart, they would try to turn Hispanics against Blacks because all you have to do is play ads in these Spanish-speaking neighborhoods and say, how come I keep hearing about Black Lives Matter and no one is talking about how my life matters?
And that kind of resentment is, it's maybe it's dirty pool, but it's a very smart argument to make.
And I think quietly, that is what ended up happening.
Yeah, no, I think you might be right about that.
I mean, I think there's several different factors.
It is unbelievable how just like, I guess just the term is racist.
I don't know what else to call it, but how racist the identitarian Democrat types are.
You will hear them on Election Day talk about the Latino vote as a monolith when they are describing, they're going, how is Donald Trump doing so well with the Latino vote in Florida when he was insulting to Mexicans?
And you're like, are you just lumping Cubans and Mexicans together as if they like this is this is a made-up like elite construct that that Cubans and Mexicans go, I mean, we're both Latino, right?
So we're just going to Japan and say, you guys are basically Chinese, right?
Yeah, right.
Same thing.
No, yeah, no big difference.
Japanese, Korean, you know, they just think of themselves as the exact same thing.
The Asian vote.
It's so bizarre to watch the supposed anti-racists, you know, kind of like go down this incredibly, you know, stereotyping way of describing things.
But look, there has been an interesting realignment.
It's probably going to take a little while for us to really know what the implications of all of this are.
But Donald Trump seems to have lost a fair amount of white suburban women since 2016 and made big pickups in terms of Latinos and black men particularly.
And this just really flies in the face of what the corporate press has been telling America for the last few years that Donald Trump only cares about his base.
He's the most racist president ever.
Well, actually, he's lost a bit of the white vote and gained a bit of the Latino in the black vote.
So sorry, something's not adding up with what you're telling the public and how they actually feel about it.
What are the numbers for the split between black males and black females with Trump?
Do you have that data?
You know what?
I don't have it in front of me right now.
And I think that this is on exit polls, which are just coming in now.
But what I saw was that I don't, you know, I don't have it in front of me.
I can try to pull it up, but I saw that it was a big, it was something like 90% of black females went for Biden and something like 80% of black men went for Biden.
So it was a big difference.
It's going to be interesting.
And I do think that is inevitable, because even if it's two different kinds of Democrats within the Black community, you know, males go one way, females go another way.
This is something that other communities have had to deal with, this kind of gender gap among issues.
And there is historically a certain lot of tension between Black men and Black women in the Black community.
And there's plenty of finger pointing and neck shaking in both directions.
So, it is going to be very funny to see once something, it's kind of like once an idea becomes to any extent legitimate or as a possibility, it tends to build on itself.
Like Ross Perot in 92 is the classic example.
You don't want to vote for a third-party guy or Obama in 2008.
You don't want to vote for someone who is an outsider if they have no chance of winning.
But once you see there is even a plausible chance that it doesn't cost you that much to jump on that bandwagon because, okay, this might actually happen.
So, to have Trumpism or any kind of Republicanism within the Black community, even if it's 20%, that is still a statistically large percentage of the population, to have that regarded as something that's on the table is a huge step forward.
It's also going to be a huge source of discord, which I think.
Yes, I agree.
And I think this is to me probably the most positive thing to come out of the election last night is that you had, as I mentioned before, and say it again, the entire corporate press, academia, Hollywood, the entire establishment telling you you are, once again, you are absolutely not to vote for this guy, Donald Trump.
He is the devil.
And black people, you particularly, you could never, because he is so against you and all this.
And at least it seems right now, about 68 million Americans are like, nope, we're going to do that anyway.
And that is not, it's not an endorsement of Donald Trump.
It's just that I like the idea that there are tens of millions of Americans who are not going to be controlled by the ruling elite.
I think that is a very, very good development.
The other thing that's insane is that John James, as we count, has a 16,000 vote lead in Michigan.
He's a Black Republican in a very purple-suite state, traditionally blue state in terms of the Senate senders that it sends to Washington.
So that is something very intriguing to watch.
Because if you have Tim Scott from, I think he's South Carolina, a Black Republican, who was appointed first and won re-election.
If you have, you know, two or three Black Republicans in the Senate, it gets, and there's no Black Democrats, or there's just one lady who half Black.
It becomes a lot harder to kind of have this kind of preemptive race war that the corporate media likes to put forward.
Yeah, it also doesn't, I mean, look, it doesn't, I don't know, it doesn't destroy the narrative, but it certainly pops a little bit of a hole in the kind of new right, hard right demographics are destiny argument that goes to go, well, actually, it kind of looks like there could be like a coalition between a working white class and the Latino working class and some black men.
And you could come up with a coalition here that could end up, you know, like being a winning coalition, even on, you know, a campaign largely centered around border control or something like that.
It's not a deal breaker for a lot of people.
So it's as the point that you've made in your book, in the new right, that the idea that demographics are destiny ignores a lot of history and claims to have more predictive powers than it actually has.
Well, it's also when America was entirely white in terms of the voting class, you had Woodrow Wilson, you had FDR.
So, I mean, if that is your vision of, you know, white America, more power to you, that's not what I would want in a Democratic president for sure.
Yeah, no, there's something almost self-contradictory about the idea that any right-winger would say, as long as we have the demographics we need, we'll never be in this terrible place because you had the demographics that you wanted and you ended up in this place here.
Bronies, Spikes, and Ridiculous Hypotheses00:03:55
Yeah, with the worst present ever.
Right, right.
So, by you know, just by um logic, it's it's it's not it, it's at least not foolproof.
Um, not necessarily that it couldn't go good, but it certainly doesn't guarantee anything.
And then that might imply that the inverse doesn't guarantee, you know, things will be a disaster as much as you might think.
All right, guys, let's take a quick second.
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All right, let's get back into the show.
Speaking of disasters, are we going to talk about her?
All right.
All right, fine.
Let's get into her.
Kanye didn't do what we wanted her to do.
Um, what are we talking?
Howie Hawkins, Green Party.
What do you, what were you referring to?
I'm pretty sure he identifies as a man.
Did you know Spike is a brony?
Did you know Spike is a brony?
What's a brony?
Someone who's a My Little Pony male fan.
You don't know what a brony is?
How do you not spend enough time on the internet?
Wait, hold on.
I just tell you what a brony is.
Yes, USA.
USA.
A brony.
Okay.
You and I aren't exactly like alpha butch dudes, but speak for yourself.
I am speaking for myself and for you.
And at the same time, that's because I'm so alpha.
At the same time, alpha AF.
At the same time, we kind of cringe when young males are just giving up their masculinity needlessly.
You don't have to be Hercules, but you don't have to be pure soy for the sake of being pure soy.
Just nut up, just a little nat up, Harry Reid.
So, bronies, by the way, I would have no issue with if someone told me that the My Little Pony cartoon is probably well done and interesting.
That's not a ridiculous hypothesis.
A lot of cartoons are fun and interesting fun.
But the point is, they're like super fans and they kind of dress.
Sometimes they dress up like the characters and all this other stuff.
There's this whole subculture, bronies.
They were very much made fun of, let's suppose, six or seven years ago on the internet.
Spike is one of them.
He gets his name Spike from My Little Pony character.
No, my God, this is news to me.
If he got his name from like Buffy, you know, the villain's name was Spike.
Like, okay, Buffy, I can wrap my head around it.
But yeah, he got it from My Little Pony character.
And much like you, he's a Jew for Jesus.
Libertarian Hostility and Curious Origins00:15:37
Did you know that?
No, is he really?
Oh, I didn't know any of this.
This is all complete.
I found this out last night, and I'm like, oh, so the basement has a cellar.
Wow.
Wow.
By the way, you did a really good job of kind of padding the Jew for Jesus thing.
Like after throwing out the brony thing, you're like, oh, yeah, whatever.
Okay.
I guess that's fine.
I don't.
Well, listen, if I'm in a Christian conservative podcast, I want to kind of pick my battles.
Yeah, no, that's good.
Oh, my God.
Oh, that's all so disturbing.
Well, listen, you know, I was, I think I'm going to make a video later on today, just kind of addressing the whole LP situation and kind of everything.
But look, I mean, right now, Joe Jorgensen, she's at about 1% with one.
Gary Johnson got about 4.5 million votes.
She's down to about 1.5 million votes.
So a huge drop off for the Libertarian Party.
This was, look, I, truthfully speaking, all that Donald Trump has increased his vote among minorities for four years ago, and Joe Jorgensen has not.
Yeah, that is something to point out.
It's here's the thing, right?
And this is the thing that's hard for, I think, a lot of people to understand.
Whatever the minority vote that would be willing to not vote for the Democrats, okay?
So this is not just, again, you think of them in terms of these monoliths or the black people, the Puerto Rican people, the Latino people, you know, you're talking about the minority who's willing to not vote for the Democratic Party.
That is not a group of individuals who are going to be won over by pandering.
Yeah, right.
By the very nature of who they are, they're walking away from the pandering.
They're saying, no, no, no, I'm enough of a critical, independent thinker that I'm going to look at my other options other than what I'm told I'm supposed to do.
So pandering to that person makes no sense.
What you should do is be principled and make the argument to them that you serve their interests better or whatever.
You know, but so look, I like Joe Jorgensen, I think, is a good lady.
And Spike recently presented Information Aside, I think is a good person.
I think they're both good libertarians.
They ran a disaster dumpster fire of a campaign.
And this was very easy to see as it was happening.
And it's not a coincidence that every libertarian, I know you don't identify as a libertarian, but you know, every one of us who believe in this philosophy in this kind of pro, you know, like private property, liberty, anarchy, whatever, you know, in this space, every one of us who has a platform pretty much called this right away as it was happening.
Went, this is a disaster.
This is a terrible way to run a campaign.
And I say that, I mean, me, you, Tom, Jason Stapleton, freaking like anybody who you can name who's built up a platform, Eric July, Maj Ture, And so it's like, it's just, there's a, maybe it's not a coincidence that everyone who's been successful building up platforms all saw that this woke shit wasn't going to fly.
I disagree, Dave.
I saw a tweet from Elizabeth Nolan Brown and she said the Republican Party is still trying to get rid of all the Ron Paul white supremacists and they have the numbers.
So I don't think you know what you're talking about.
Yes, there you go.
So congratulations.
You got rid of all of them.
You got good job.
If your mission.
They have the numbers, Dave.
They have the numbers.
That's right.
So if your mission was to make sure, it's never a great sign when you start your campaign with the goal of driving people away.
I don't know.
It worked for me.
Yeah.
Well, honestly, it somehow does.
It's shocking how successful you've been with that strategy.
But if you're trying to win political office, you probably don't.
Or just popular support.
Like, look, no one thought she was going to win.
Of course.
But it was not at all implausible that she could generate busts.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
At least, at least on like a couple key issues.
Yeah.
At least, you know, insert something into the conversation.
Oh, you know, that Joe Jorgensen never shut up about the war in Yemen.
And now we're kind of, we kind of have to talk about it a little bit.
Or what about forcing the vote on the budget?
How many trillions?
And there's no vote.
Like, where is something?
Go to the conservatives and yell at them.
Be like, you say you're for fiscal conservatives and where is it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it was, listen, it was just, it was a disaster from the other thing is like her little, her little hashtag, let her speak.
It's like, yeah, you had Twitter.
This was your opportunity to lob bombs and make things go viral.
And you could, I mean, for all our attacks on the cathedral, they do like drama and they, there's certainly opportunities to play it up.
Libertarian candidate challenges President Trump or Joe Biden to blah, blah, blah.
I mean, this, this, you sit down, have a brainstorming session and just throw things at the wall and see what works.
And one of the things that I think, you know, that me and you have had some degree of success with in within like kind of corporate media, even like being on Fox News, I was on CNN, you know, and things like that.
One of the things that you can do as a libertarian is you can make these kind of NPC heads explode because they don't know how to deal with you.
And it freaks NPCs out when they can't put you into one of their boxes.
And you libertarians have the ability to do this all the time.
Easily.
Very easily.
You can do all of that, like all the time.
You know what I mean?
You're like, yeah, Donald Trump absolutely should have been impeached for five other reasons than the reason you want to impeach him for.
And it's like, but you know, Donald Trump didn't collude with Vladimir Putin, but I wish he had.
You know, like you can just do this over and over to them and just go like, wait, what?
Like, what do you say?
And it's clearly the most interesting thing that's been said, but it doesn't fit into any box.
And, you know, there was, there was really no strategy.
And the, um, it was just a, uh, the, the, what the campaign came to be known for.
And you can, I've seen a lot of people, particularly some of the more autistic leaning libertarian types who are like, well, no, those were only 17 of her tweets.
And if you read the other thousand tweets, a lot of them were about fiscal policy or something.
And you're like, yeah, but you know what?
If your campaign has been come to be known for something and you are putting that message out there, that at least is partially on you.
And what they came to be known for was siding with Black Lives Matter.
We are with Black Lives Matter.
Our VP is out in the streets with them.
We're tweeting out hashtag Black Lives Matter.
It's not enough to be passively not racist, must be actively anti-racist.
Oh, not the organization, but we support the movement.
So bold, clear, we support the movement, Black Lives Matter.
And this was an incredibly divisive movement.
And there was no clear benefit to the strategy of just saying we're with Black Lives Matter.
And here.
Particularly when the movement turned violent.
It was always identitarian, but then it became identitarian and violent.
And that's a, there was no payoff.
I mean, it was so easy to call this right away.
There was no payoff to siding with Black Lives Matter.
And it turned a lot of people off.
Well, I think that is their payoff.
I think there's a certain cadre who are trying to make the Libertarian Party inhospitable to certain people whose views that they find anathema.
And like that, that's something I kind of can get on board with.
Like I'm in favor of taking a space and kind of colonizing it and making it your own.
But the thing is, they don't have the numbers.
And I don't think they have the will or the stamina.
And they certainly don't have the strategy to make this happen.
So it was kind of, it's just, I don't know if you saw this.
She was on Kennedy, Joe Jorgensen, not that long before the election.
And there was that moment where she was doing some kind of Facebook live chat or C-SPAN, I think it was.
And she was, Joe Jorgensen was bringing up the comment about how a woman posted all lives matter on her private Facebook and she got fired.
And this is an example of how quickly the market works.
And I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt to be like, okay, well, maybe it shouldn't mean that this is a good thing that this happened.
But this is an example of how responsive the market is to pressures.
And Kennedy asked her about it.
And she basically kind of just spurred out and didn't really have a coherent response.
So it's like, if you know you said something, and it's going to be inevitable if you're campaigning, you're going to say, you're going to misspeak or speak imprecisely and think people are parsing your words.
If you know something has caused some kind of drama or backlash, when someone, you should welcome that question to clarify your position and be like, oh, no, no, I was misinterpreted.
Here's what I think, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And that would assuage people who are otherwise concerned.
Yeah.
You know, part of it is just that Joe Jorgensen is a lady in her 60s and is just completely, and she demonstrated this over and over again, completely tone deaf to like what's going on in this moment in America.
And, you know, like, say, for what you might say about him, I mean, Donald Trump's in his mid-70s and he kind of gets it.
Like he kind of gets how to play the game and like of the culture war and all of that stuff.
But look, there's, there's a thing going on here that libertarians have to grapple with and have to be able to adapt to.
And I've been talking about this like a lot for the last year, that it's libertarians, it's one of our big weaknesses is that we get stuck in dogma.
Now, it's philosophic dogma.
And in my opinion, a lot of it is logically consistent and irrefutable in some ways, but you have to adjust to the facts on the ground and what's going on around you and then figure out how your philosophy can fit into the real world because that's all that matters.
Rest of it is all bullshit.
The only thing that matters is what can actually be, you know, implemented.
Otherwise, it's just an idea and space, which is useless.
It's as useless as fucking being a commie.
It doesn't mean anything if you can't implement it.
And so you have like, like, look, there was this one fucking thing that I was making fun of her on Twitter for the other day that Joe Jorgensen said, you know, the office meme where it's like the two pictures.
Yeah, saying this is the same picture.
So she puts out that she tweets out the meme of Biden and Trump.
And then it's Joe Jorgensen going, it's the same picture.
And I said to her, I go, this is really effective messaging for 2012.
Like that, you know what I mean?
Like, yes, yes, I know that in the pre-Trump days, we libertarians used to say that they're the same.
There's no difference between them because that made sense when it's Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush.
That made sense when it's Bush and Gore.
Nobody looks at Donald Trump and Joe Biden and goes, they're the same.
Like it doesn't, even if you're making some point that, like, they both support the Federal Reserve and the warfare state or something like this to the normie, to the person you're trying to reach, that they go, what?
What do you mean they're the same?
They're as different as different.
And actually, there are some pretty substantive differences between Biden and Trump.
So it's stuff like this.
And when she mentions the All Lives Matter thing, she's bragging about what is a weak point for libertarians.
The normal person hears about a woman being fired for posting all lives matter, and the response, quite understandably, would be, they shouldn't be allowed to do that.
Right.
They should not be allowed to do that.
And this is a problem.
You know, you made this point.
You've made this point many times, but I remember when you were talking about that Lex guy.
Yes.
And you made the point that, you know, because he said something about anarchism being utopian.
And you were like, look, there's nothing utopian about it.
It's curing one problem.
It's not.
So it's like if you had a cure for cancer, you're like, oh, so it's a utopia.
Oh, so when we cure cancer, you're saying no one will ever get a scratched knee or no one will ever die in a car crash.
It's like, no, I'm saying no one will die of cancer.
And like, cancer is cured now.
So a world with cancer cured is better than a world without cancer cured.
And that's kind of it.
There's still all these other illnesses out there, but we have a cure for the state, right?
Like that's that's what we're offering.
And look, one of the big stories, I'll tie this back into a big story about the election.
Here's a major story about the election: the polls were wrong.
Donald Trump does better than he polls.
And we all know why that is, because the establishment has made it toxic to be openly for Trump.
And so a lot of people who are for Trump will not publicly say that they're for Trump.
There's no upside, but there's a possible downside.
That's right.
The math just plays out.
And so while libertarians and anarchists might say, oh, we have a cure for the state, it is a fair question to ask.
How free of a country are we really?
If you can't just say what you believe, if you fear negative consequences for what you believe.
And that is a big dynamic throughout the country.
And she doesn't even realize when she talks about the All Lives Matter thing that she's walking into this landmine.
Right.
She doesn't even realize that she's walking into a subject that is like explosive for like half the country.
Like, what the fuck do you mean?
Like, you're not against this.
You're not against someone being publicly humiliated and having their life ruined for like a mild political opinion, like some boomer comm opinion, not even like some, it's not like she's promoting a white ethnostate.
She said, all lives matter.
Like, so that's just, you know, that's, that's a big part of the failure of that.
Yeah, I'm very curious to see what's going to happen with the LP going forward, how they're going to spin this.
It's, it's going to be hilarious.
Someone already will say, like, oh, you're, you're shitting on the LP, but, you know, she's had no name recognition and she did the second best ever.
And it's like, great, if you want to spend a loss of 65% of your votes as a victory, more power to you.
Because then you have to ask yourself, okay, why is the LP in such a position after getting 4 million votes, which is not negligible, to not be able to attract people, even people who just wanted a free ride and attention and are just complete, you know, sociopaths like the other two parties.
Yeah, I'm sure it'll be my fault somehow.
I'm ready to get it.
It's me and Tom and you.
We screwed everything up.
Screw the pooch.
If only we were nicer to grandma.
Yeah.
Yeah, right.
So anyway.
All right.
So it looks like in what was fairly predictable to happen is that Donald Trump came out and did kind of claim victory.
Yeah.
I mean, they just kind of claim victory, but he's also, they did say Giuliani is going to Philly.
They're going to, you know, it does seem that they are not going to take this easily, that the Trump administration is going to fight with everything they have to try to not concede and try to win this election.
I have a feeling it's going to be drawn out for a couple more weeks at this point.
And if nothing else, it should be somewhat entertaining.
Authoritarian Fears and National Socialists00:14:14
Do you?
I'm curious what you think about all that stuff.
How you think it's going to go?
But also I was curious, like, do you, because you, one of the things that you've said many times is that we don't deserve him to Donald Trump because he is just undeniably the most entertaining president that you could.
Oh, you're misunderstanding me.
That's one of my great chaotic lines because you could read that in two other ways.
You could also read that as a criticism of him, right?
Sure.
Sure.
President.
Yes, yes.
Okay.
I get what you're saying.
So you're having fun with that.
But usually it's when he says something hilarious.
And you're like, we don't deserve.
We don't deserve him.
Is there part of you that almost is just going to miss this moment just for the hilarity of all of it if Donald Trump loses?
Dude, he's not going to vanish.
He's going to be on Twitter nuking Matt McConnell and nuking Joe Biden.
Yeah, that is true.
Donald Trump, what people don't appreciate is before Rush Limbaugh, this is in the early 90s, there was no one holding the Republican Party accountable.
And you had things like the first President Bush in 1990 on the steps of, I think, the White House or wherever it was, the Capitol building, cutting a deal with their Democratic leaders in both houses.
You and I mentioned the clip earlier.
And he's going to break his pledge.
He's going to raise taxes and it's going to cut the budget deficit in half over eight years.
The tax increases came.
The spending cuts never did.
But there was no one to say you're full of crap.
So once you had Limbaugh, once you had talk radio, you had all these people yelling at the Republican Party, being like, you guys are horrible.
Like try to act somewhat right, right wing if that is what you campaigned on.
Yeah, it's when that's when the term rhino became popularized.
Yeah.
And now that's kind of fallen away, especially with spending when there was just no response to the huge spending this year.
I was talking to Stu Briger of the Glenn Beck show.
I had him on Your Welcome.
And I'm like, are you not bothered by, and he goes, yeah, there's like no, not even a pretense that there's any kind of fiscal conservatism in Washington anymore.
He's like, that's a complete joke.
So it'll be great to have him holding these people's feet to the fire in the most hilarious ways, because what they think is going to happen is that with a Joe Biden presidency, there's going to be earnestness and decorum.
Let me tell you something.
For me, my definition of decorum does not include someone literally shitting their pants behind the resolute desk.
It is Joe Biden as president is going to be the opposite of decorum.
It is going to be the very symbol of decadent decline and degeneration.
So in many senses of that term.
So you're absolutely right.
He's not going anywhere.
He's just going to have more time to spend on Twitter.
He's not going to have any accountability to be nice to people he doesn't like.
So it's not going anywhere.
No, that's a very, that's a very good point.
I also, you know, there is.
What about when he starts campaigning for the Senate candidates in 2022?
That'll be, that'll be fun.
Yeah, I guess there will be even, you know, even assuming, again, we're kind of assuming he could find a way to pull this off, but assuming he doesn't, yeah, you're right.
He's not leaving the public eye anytime soon.
The guy's a monster.
Just beat COVID.
He's he's fine.
He's in tremendous health.
But so, you know, one of the things that also is kind of on full display here, if you care to see it, which I'm sure you obviously do see.
But of course, people get very emotional around elections.
And that's also part of the reason why, you know, libertarians get really angry at me when I criticize Joe Jorgensen.
People get very emotionally invested.
And the same, all of the stuff that people were loving in 2016, when you saw all of the young Turks and MSNBC people freaking out and the lefties screaming in the streets and all of that.
Now it looks like the shoe is going to be on the other foot.
And it'll be Trump supporters who are furious and all of that.
But to anybody who's like kind of a critic of democracy, you just see how ridiculous this whole thing is.
The idea that like 50,000 votes in Wisconsin is going to determine which side of you has to be miserable, like which 50% of the country have to be crying tonight.
And the other 50% get to rule that other 50%.
And you're like, this is all just so absurd.
This is like, how could we possibly think this is the best way to run a system?
Yeah, the only way I'm entitled to have my views implemented is if they're really popular among people who are cherocraftly proximate to me.
It's just bizarre.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very, very, very bizarre.
The other thing, and I like, you know, me and you talk about a lot of, you know, a lot of the podcasts we've done over this year has like been about the topic of like breaking binary thinking patterns.
And one of the things that I've been thinking about a lot lately is that I really do think that quite possibly for the for the real anti-Trump, the Trump is Hitler type, or there's the people who call, say, you know, Trump is a fascist and all of this.
I really think it would behoove them to consider the possibility that Trump was actually a hedge against a right-wing authoritarian.
And that, you know, it's like the point that you made many times.
I love this point because, again, it just explodes binary thinkers' minds.
But when you would go, the NRA is the moderate wing of the guy.
And just pointing this out because they have it in their head that it's like, actually, you know, Donald Trump, like I was saying this on the last podcast, Donald Trump was the biggest middle finger in the room.
And all these right-wingers in the Republican parties were like, yes, we will take the biggest middle finger.
Now, just for a thought experiment, imagine there was a bigger middle finger.
How much further do you think they would have been willing to go?
My guess is quite a bit.
Yeah.
Oh, there's data for this.
Do you know who got elected governor of Montana last night?
No.
In 2017, Greg Gianforty was a congressman, was running for the Montana congressional seat.
There was a tweet from, I think, Ben Jacobs, a journalist.
He tweeted out, Greg Gianforty just body slammed me and broke my glasses.
The media went out and tried to find any voters who were changed one way or another by the fact that a congressional candidate literally assaulted a journalist, right?
And didn't even deny it.
They couldn't find one voter to change their mind.
He ran.
He won.
He was convicted of assault correctly.
You don't put your hands on people.
And just yesterday, he was elected governor of Montana.
Yeah.
No, so it's like there's look, the truth is that this is this is what I see.
And I think this is one of the big fears going forward in America.
This is one of like my major concerns.
And this has been for a while.
One of the major reasons that I hate the woke identitarian left is there's a lot of shit that they do that I think is horrible.
I also think what they're provoking on the right is truly dangerous.
And I think that with Joe Biden, what you're going to get is higher government spending, more federal inter more Fed, Federal Reserve intervention in the markets, low interest rates, and relentless woke lecturing.
And I think that this is really a recipe to push people toward a real right-wing authoritarian.
And if you ever get a real right-wing authoritarian, all these people calling Trump Hitler are going to notice, oh, actually, Trump was essentially an 80s Democrat.
And you guys thought he was fucking Hitler.
He was literally an 80s Democrat, just wasn't for open borders, was a little bit skeptical about war, not unwilling to fight wars, but a little bit skeptical about being involved in every single war and wasn't politically correct.
It's basically what an 80s Democrat was.
He was right in line, could have run in 1980s on his exact platform and gotten the support of labor and the Democratic Party and all of that.
In fact, he was a Democrat in the 80s.
Like that's what he was.
And they called him Hitler.
And just saying, you guys are really, it's like you have a recipe here to actually push people toward a right-wing authoritarian.
And that is a concern.
And I think for libertarians or people like us in this space, that's one of the things that we've got to fight with people on the right about.
Hans Hermann Hoppe said at one point that he goes, the right wing is on this path where they can either push toward decentralization or toward a right-wing authoritarian.
And our job is to kind of fight to push that in the, you know, in the fucking direction of not right-wing authoritarian.
Exactly.
I think it's also funny that, yeah, people don't appreciate that Hans Hermann Hoppe is probably the, he is the one fighting against the Nazification of the far right wing.
Yes.
No, this is Hoppe was the guy who ended the fucking paleo strategy.
And called Buchanan a Nazi.
Yeah, you know, and he's and went out of his way to say, you know, he wasn't calling him a Nazi like a hysterical leftist.
Like he was like, look, I'm not calling you like a racist.
I'm not like, I'm just saying that what you are proposing is getting very similar to what the National Socialists were proposing.
Like this is, this is not a good direction to go in.
It didn't work out very well last time.
And he was right.
But yeah, so, you know, there was something I was thinking about a lot and just kind of closing with this because we'll wrap up in a second.
But it was Tucker Carlson had this great fucking monologue the other day that really stuck with me where he's talking about the 54,000 people that Donald Trump drew in central Pennsylvania.
So that fucking one of his speeches.
And this is the whole point about like, you know, democracy and why it's so absurd and all this.
Like, okay, so even if Biden wins, what are these people vanquished?
You think they're just not there anymore?
Like, they're all still here.
They're all still in our society.
And it would, you know, you'd think you might ask yourself, like, why?
Why do they fucking love Trump so much?
And it's really not that complicated of an answer.
And it's that, you know, they feel like everyone else hates them.
They feel like the establishment hates them and has left them to die.
Yes.
Yes.
And Donald Trump was like, I don't hate you.
In fact, I like you.
I'm going to fight for you.
No, I'm going to say I'm going to fight for you.
Well, sure, but that's, but that's what I mean.
He says that.
He says, hey, I don't like it.
I'll fight for you.
And, you know, I doubt he is.
But Pat Buchanan said once in his 1992 culture war speech at the RNC, which was a really interesting speech, kind of got ridiculed in the press at the time.
But decades later, you look back at it, like he was really on to something.
And he talked about those people.
You know, he wouldn't use the term, but the deplorables.
And he said, he basically goes, we need to reconnect with these people.
They don't expect everything from us.
They don't expect us to do everything, but they need to know that we care.
Yeah.
And I really do think this is the biggest thing that's missed about Donald Trump is that he convinced those people that he cared.
And no one else seems to be doing that.
For all the quote, you know, racism and xenophobia and all this other stuff that they claim Donald Trump stood for.
If you go listen, listen to those rallies, they're chanting, we love you to him.
And he goes, and I love you all too.
And it's just interesting, like no one else is talking to those people.
And someone else is going to try to.
Even if Trump's out of here, that's the new opening now, is who can talk to those people.
But it's also funny how 2008, 2012, when the adulation for Obama made you think he could walk on water, it's the best thing ever.
But when Trump has this adulation on the right, it's like, oh, my God, it's Hitler Nuremberg.
It's like, listen, you had your messiah.
You pushed him very, very heavily and you thought it was amazing and you couldn't handle it.
And now when there's a messiah that you don't approve of, oh my God, it's just the worst thing that's ever happened in human history.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, you're absolutely right.
And I also think that maybe this will just be the final thing because I know you kind of touched on this before, but there's also those people out there who are Trump supporters who are very scared that he's going to lose this.
It certainly doesn't look good for him now.
But I also agree with what you said before.
Just, you know, listen, the Democrats didn't take all three branches.
That would have been the worst case scenario.
This was never, Donald Trump was never going to save America and make America great again.
I also think this was the start of something, not the completion of something, and that this country is moving into a different phase now.
But I don't know, offer people a white pill, perhaps.
Maybe this Joe Biden winning is not the end of your life.
I mean, again, Joe Biden has been more effective against fighting socialist national democratic socialism than Donald Trump.
That has been his entire campaign is defeating the people, the AOCs that you were afraid of.
And in fact, he had an opportunity for his running mate.
He chose a cop.
Now, I think she's the worst person ever.
There's no question.
But are you going to be able to tell me that the corporate press is going to be able to put her over?
I mean, you saw her in 60 Minutes where she was just asked softball questions and she couldn't hang on them without laughing like some kind of weird spurgout.
Yeah, I also think that there's, you know, a lot of people are a lot of Republican types who I've heard from are like, well, it's just going to be President Kamala Harris.
And in many ways, you go, yeah, that's almost like the best case scenario.
Like Joe Biden can't make this through, make it through, probably.
I doubt he could be president for over a year.
He is literally falling apart.
This guy's not going to be capable of doing the job.
He might be removed from office.
So what are you going to have?
Kamala Harris, you're going to have the least charismatic lizard person you've ever seen in your life who wasn't even elected.
So has no air of like even credibility.
She couldn't get black people to vote for her in the Democratic primary.
Remember, she didn't even make it to Iowa.
And let me remind people some other data, because again, I'm a dinosaur, an ancient dinosaur.
In 1993 and 1994, Bill Clinton put Hillary Clinton in terms of running healthcare, who had never been elected to anything, who had no healthcare experience.
She said, I want to run something.
Healthcare Charges and Political Collapse00:01:10
Fine.
She put her charge on healthcare reform.
For the first time in 40 years, the Republicans won Congress and not one Republican incumbent was defeated.
So what people forget about democracy, which progressives try to get them to forget, is that historically it has a very good way of reverting to the mean.
And that if you vote for one party one time, they go for the other party the next because people don't have our ideas or philosophy, but they just tend to revolt against what's in charge at the time.
So take a deep breath, people.
Calm down.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's a good, I completely agree.
And that's a good note to wrap things up on.
All right.
That's the episode for today.
Hope everyone had a fun late night drinking watching the election the other day.
Sober up.
Time to move on with life.
Politics should be the least of your concerns.
And never let politics, I mean, unless someone's knocking down your door to drag you off to a camp, don't let politics control your actual emotions and personal life.